🎙️ Interesting Humans Podcast – Episode 46: MLK Protege, Bloody Sunday Survivor

Host: Jeff Hopeck
Guest: John Suttles
Release Date: March 24, 2025

Introduction

In Episode 46 of the Interesting Humans Podcast, host Jeff Hopeck engages in a profound and moving conversation with John Suttles, a survivor of the infamous Bloody Sunday march in Selma, Alabama. John, a dedicated civil rights activist and protege of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., shares his firsthand experiences, insights into the civil rights movement, and reflections on contemporary social issues. This episode delves deep into the struggles, philosophies, and enduring legacy of those who fought for equality and justice in America.

Bloody Sunday: First-Hand Account

John Suttles opens the discussion by recounting the harrowing events of Bloody Sunday on March 7, 1965. At just 16 years old, John was part of a peaceful march from the church in Selma to Montgomery to advocate for voting rights.

Key Points:

• Preparation and Tension: John describes waking up excited for the march, only to be warned of the severe weather and the large presence of law enforcement at the bridge. His uncle provides him with an army jacket as a precaution, which now hangs in the interpretive center of the national park in Selma.

  John Suttles (02:00): "He reached into his closet and pulled out his army jacket... and it had a lot of blood, my blood on it, hanging in the interpretive center of the national park down in Selma today."

• The March and Confrontation: Despite knowing the risks, the group, including notable figures like John Lewis and Jose Williams, proceeded peacefully. Upon reaching the bridge, law enforcement ordered them to disperse, leading to tear gas deployment and violent beatings.

  John Suttles (05:13): "And when we kneeled down, they start throwing tear gas. It surrounded us on the bridge... they start beating us."

• Aftermath: John recalls being knocked unconscious and subsequently treated at a hospital without his mother's knowledge. He emphasizes the collective bravery and commitment to nonviolence that characterized the marchers.

  John Suttles (09:21): "That reality... they wanted to intimidate us that way... we knew somebody is going to get hurt."

Civil Rights Philosophy: The Formula of Nonviolence and Self-Purification

A significant portion of the conversation centers on the philosophical underpinnings of the civil rights movement, particularly the concept of self-purification as taught by Dr. King.

Key Points:

• Self-Purification: John explains that self-purification involves removing personal hate and negativity to maintain a nonviolent stance, essential for the success of the movement.

  John Suttles (16:16): "Self purification... It did for you, it you realize that I have some demons that Jeff... don't have anything to do with why they're on my back."

• The Five Pillars of Nonviolence:

  1. Facts
  2. Negotiation
  3. Self-Purification
  4. Direct Action
  5. Dialogue

  These pillars form the backbone of effective civil rights activism, emphasizing peaceful methods and constructive communication.

  John Suttles (20:11): "There's a formula for nonviolent. It is facts, negotiation, self purification, direct action and dialogue."

• Application Today: John stresses the importance of these principles in contemporary movements, advocating for dialogue and understanding over confrontation.

  John Suttles (21:03): "You have to take the young people and give them the formula and how we did it."

Historical Context: 1960s Events and Their Impact

Jeff and John traverse the tumultuous landscape of the 1960s, highlighting key events and their interconnectedness in shaping the civil rights era.

Key Events Discussed:

• 1963 JFK Assassination: John reflects on the national trauma and the subsequent unification of Americans in the face of loss.

  John Suttles (22:29): "To me, it was good times. Not in a morbid way, but just people came together."

• Civil Rights Act of 1964: The legislative milestone that legally ended segregation and discrimination, bolstered by the relentless activism of individuals like John Lewis and John Suttles.

• Voting Rights Act of 1965 and Watts Riots: John connects these events, explaining how unrest in places like Watts influenced and mirrored struggles in the South.

  John Suttles (34:08): "They believed that when the young people in California understood what was happening down south, they thought, let me go out and hurt somebody."

• MLK and RFK Assassinations in 1968: The loss of these leaders left a vacuum in the movement, prompting questions about the future of civil rights advocacy.

  John Suttles (52:33): "Who’s going to stop all this stuff? Am I safe to talk about who I am?"

Reflections on Modern Civil Rights and Current Challenges

John draws parallels between the struggles of the 1960s and today's societal issues, emphasizing that the fight for equality and justice is ongoing.

Key Points:

• Enduring Challenges: Despite legislative victories, civil rights progress is cyclical, with periods of regression and renewed activism.

  John Suttles (61:27): "Things haven't really settled down since then. Been up and down."

• Impacts of Relaxation: John warns against complacency, highlighting that societal progress can be lost if not actively maintained.

  John Suttles (26:00): "America stood up and said, that's wrong. We're not gonna allow that to happen."

• Social Media’s Role: The platform has become a double-edged sword, facilitating both positive dialogue and the rapid spread of hate and misinformation.

  John Suttles (85:06): "Now it's out of control. Just like the garbage on the road."

The Role of Voting and Civic Engagement

A recurring theme is the critical importance of voting and active participation in the democratic process.

Key Points:

• Empowerment Through Voting: John encourages listeners, especially the younger generation, to use their vote as a tool for change and accountability.

  John Suttles (32:49): "If you don't believe in the system, then you have to help your neighbor, your granddad, you gotta go vote."

• Civic Responsibility: Emphasizing that democracy thrives on informed and engaged citizens who hold their leaders accountable.

  John Suttles (78:38): "That's my money. Hands off."

Influence of Social Media and DEI (Diversity, Equity, Inclusion)

John articulates concerns about the pervasive influence of social media in shaping public opinion and the implementation of DEI initiatives in contemporary society.

Key Points:

• Social Media’s Impact: The unchecked spread of misinformation and hate on social platforms exacerbates societal divides.

  John Suttles (85:27): "If we had tackled [social media regulation] then, now it's out of control. Just like the garbage on the road."

• Diversity of Thought: Advocating for DEI as a means to enrich discussions and bring varied perspectives to problem-solving, beyond superficial diversity.

  John Suttles (82:09): "You have to bring the people on. They have ideas that you can use."

Legacy and Moving Forward: John's Messages and Truths

As the conversation wraps up, John imparts powerful messages aimed at ensuring the continuation of civil rights progress through truth, dialogue, and self-purification.

Key Messages:

• Truth and Verification: John urges listeners to seek the truth independently and verify historical accounts rather than taking words at face value.

  John Suttles (87:55): "If you don't believe it, go and dig it up. And it's there."

• Good Trouble: Echoing John Lewis’s philosophy, John emphasizes the importance of engaging in "good trouble"—actions that challenge injustice peacefully and constructively.

  John Suttles (59:25): "Get in some good trouble."

• Enduring Principles: The formula of nonviolence, dialogue, and informed activism remains essential for overcoming current and future societal challenges.

  John Suttles (60:49): "Dialogue and love and facts... negotiations... direct action."

Conclusion

Jeff Hopeck and John Suttles conclude the episode with mutual respect and a shared commitment to advancing civil rights through peaceful activism and informed civic engagement. John's resilience and unwavering dedication to nonviolence serve as an inspiring testament to the enduring spirit of the civil rights movement.

Jeff Hopeck (89:05): "You're a living testament that we can... do not have hate. That's a miracle."

This episode not only honors the legacy of those who marched and fought for civil rights but also calls on current and future generations to continue the fight with the same courage and conviction.

Notable Quotes:

• John Suttles (02:00): "He reached into his closet and pulled out his army jacket... and it had a lot of blood, my blood on it, hanging in the interpretive center of the national park down in Selma today."

• John Suttles (16:16): "Self purification... It did for you, it you realize that I have some demons that Jeff... don't have anything to do with why they're on my back."

• John Suttles (20:11): "There's a formula for nonviolent. It is facts, negotiation, self purification, direct action and dialogue."

• John Suttles (59:25): "Get in some good trouble."

• John Suttles (85:06): "Now it's out of control. Just like the garbage on the road."

Additional Resources:

• Bloody Sunday Interpretive Center: Selma National Voting Rights Museum
• John Suttles’ Outreach: For more information on John’s ongoing advocacy and how to participate in commemorative events, visit the Selma Interpretive Center.

This episode is a compelling exploration of courage, resilience, and the ongoing quest for equality. John Suttles' narrative not only preserves the history of the civil rights movement but also provides actionable insights for addressing today's social challenges.