Ep. 47: Susana Eshleman - Living Life with Purpose & On Purpose

Summary

Episode Summary: Ep. 47: Susana Eshleman - Living Life with Purpose & On Purpose

Released on March 27, 2025, on the 🎙️ Interesting Humans Podcast hosted by Jeff Hopeck, Episode 47 features an inspiring conversation with Susana Eshleman. Susana shares her remarkable journey from a responsible child in Argentina to a leader advocating for disadvantaged youth worldwide.

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1. Early Life and Responsibilities in Argentina

Susana Eshleman recounts her upbringing in Argentina as the oldest of six children in a bustling household. With a mother who was a family law attorney and a father serving in the Argentine Navy, Susana assumed significant responsibilities from a young age.

“I teased that I was an adult by three, but I'm not teasing a lot. I remember being 7 or 8 years old, walking my siblings to preschool or picking them up...” (00:10)

Susana highlights the frugal lifestyle her family maintained, emphasizing lessons in simplicity and self-reliance.

“I just learned to not have material things be a source of satisfaction and look for other things that fulfill the soul.” (04:47)

2. Becoming an Exchange Student in the United States

Driven by her grandfather's encouragement and her own academic excellence, Susana earned a scholarship through Youth for Understanding, allowing her to study in Fort Calhoun, Nebraska.

“I became an exchange student to the US and went to live in a very small town in Nebraska called Fort Calhoun.” (14:17)

Adjusting to a new culture and environment, Susana developed strong bonds with her host family and embraced the opportunities American education offered.

3. Educational Journey at University of Nebraska

At the University of Nebraska, Susana initially pursued a geology major, which later paved the way for a scholarship that allowed her to switch to a business major after her first year.

“The geology scholarship paid for my tuition and helped cover room and board.” (21:24)

Balancing academic responsibilities with part-time work, Susana exemplified dedication and resourcefulness.

4. Mentorship and Influence of Dr. Hayden

A pivotal moment in Susana's academic career was her relationship with Professor Greg Hayden, whose mentorship profoundly shaped her aspirations.

“He said, ‘I think you should consider getting your master's at Harvard Business School...’” (42:03)

Dr. Hayden's unwavering belief in Susana's potential inspired her to pursue graduate studies at Harvard, setting the stage for future leadership roles.

5. Admittance and Experience at Harvard Business School

Susana's acceptance into Harvard Business School, complete with deferred admission, marked a significant achievement. The rigorous environment taught her the importance of resilience and adaptability.

“It was very demanding. I thought I was going to fail, but I realized that everyone felt the same way.” (57:43)

The diverse and competitive atmosphere at Harvard underscored the value of collaboration over solitary excellence.

6. The Importance of Resilience and Passion

Reflecting on her experiences, Susana identifies resilience as the most crucial trait for success. She underscores how passion fuels perseverance through challenges.

“I think resilience is essential. And I would say courage is a sub-bullet... Your passion is your superpower.” (72:24)

Susana believes that passion drives individuals to overcome obstacles and achieve meaningful outcomes.

7. Leadership at Children International

Susana's career trajectory led her to Children International, where she currently serves as CEO. Her leadership focuses on transforming the organization to empower youth to break the cycle of poverty.

“We have evolved from alleviating symptoms to investing in the kids so they can be positive agents of change in their communities.” (65:57)

Under her guidance, Children International aligns its resources and strategies to maximize impact and sustainability.

8. Academic Performance vs. Professional Success

Susana observes that high academic achievers at institutions like Harvard do not always translate to professional excellence. She emphasizes that qualities such as humility, confidence, and people-oriented skills are more indicative of long-term success.

“Those who are most satisfied with their lives and are excelling professionally and personally managed balance, confidence, humility, and people.” (77:04)

This insight highlights the importance of interpersonal skills and emotional intelligence in leadership.

9. Conclusion and Key Takeaways

Susana Eshleman's story is a testament to the power of mentorship, resilience, and purposeful leadership. Her journey from a responsible child in Argentina to a global nonprofit leader illustrates how recognizing and nurturing one's passions can lead to profound societal impacts.

“Every time I meet one of these kids, I fall in love with them. My commitment to help all of them grows.” (74:11)

Jeff Hopeck concludes the episode by expressing admiration for Susana's vulnerability and inspirational narrative, emphasizing the valuable lessons listeners can draw from her experiences.

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Key Insights:

• Resilience and Passion: Fundamental traits that drive individuals to overcome challenges and achieve long-term success.

• Mentorship's Impact: The profound influence mentors can have on shaping one's career and personal growth.

• Balanced Leadership: Effective leaders possess a balance of confidence, humility, and a focus on people, beyond mere academic excellence.

• Purpose-Driven Work: Aligning personal passions with professional roles can lead to meaningful and impactful contributions to society.

Susana Eshleman's episode serves as an inspiring blueprint for living a life with purpose, demonstrating how dedication, supported by strong mentorship and personal resilience, can lead to significant positive change in the world.

Transcript

[A]

All right, folks, welcome to episode 49. I have with me today Susannah Eshelman. Thank you so much for coming first off. And you flew in from Kansas City.

[B]

I did.

[A]

It's incredible. So thank you for being here. You're gonna bless this audience with a story that is just incredible at every angle. And there's three real big pivotal points that I want. I want everybody to pick up on. So first is you were forced to grow up. We're going to get into this so much to the fact that you said by age 3, you might have been an adult. Right. And there. I just can't wait to unpack that. Second is your geology major that you had no idea you didn't want to do that at all. There's a very interesting backstory of how you landed in that major, which then took you to, I don't know, I call it the big school, like Harvard Business School. That's pretty remarkable in my books. And third is in college, something happened of mine. My assessment would be that forever changed the course of your life. Somebody noticed something in you. And I think that in and of itself, I literally get goosebumps when I think of what life would have been had you just continued on with your assessment of yourself. But instead, somebody. Somebody latched on and said, hey, I see you differently in such a good way. And that changed a course for you. So let's start where. Where are you from? And tell me about these first couple years of forced growing up.

[B]

I grew up in Argentina. Okay, so. So if as we go through the interview, you notice a little funny accent, you know where that comes from. I am the oldest of six children. My mom was an attorney, and my dad was a navy officer of the Argentine Navy. And I'm the oldest of six in less than 10 years. So a busy household. My mom always on the go, my dad often at sea for long periods of time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I just remember feeling very responsible for a lot at a very early age in life. And so I. I tease that I was an adult by three, but I'm not teasing a whole lot. I remember being 6, 7 years, 7, 8 years old, and taking. Walking my kid, my siblings to preschool or picking them up. So just as part of making a busy household work.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And keeping it so that everybody was okay and regulated, I felt like I did a lot of stuff and was an adult pretty early in life.

[A]

Okay, so almost taking over. Were you taking over, like, a parental role?

[B]

I think in some cases, yes.

[A]

Okay. So was mom present?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So mom was present and Very busy and busy. Right. Because of six kids.

[B]

Mother of six kids and a practicing attorney.

[A]

Sure. Wow. And probably not working from home at that time.

[B]

Correct. Yes.

[A]

And dad, like regularly gone.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Deployment. Deployment type stuff.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Had a pretty good. Or what would you say?

[B]

Yeah. Life was good. And I think we spend a lot of quality time together. We spent a lot of healthy fun. I remember a lot of time spent outside in a park. I would consider us a lower middle income family. We didn't have a lot.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

By U.S. standards.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But we certainly had enough. But just learned how to live in a pretty frugal way. And as I think about some of the gifts that my parents left me, that is certainly one that is just so important. I remember, you know, like being a teenager and going to high school and I had one pair of jeans, you know, that's. I wore it Monday through Friday. It got washed on the weekends and rewarding in, you know, the following week.

[A]

So everybody out there hear that. One pair of jeans and she's still alive. Can you believe it? Still alive and functioning.

[B]

I bring it up because at the time I could. I knew people who had two and three and four pairs of jeans. And I just kind of. I so wish I had a little wider wardrobe now where I am it. I just learned to not have material things be a source of satisfaction and look for other things that fulfill the soul.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And to just also live very simply and frugally. And I have done that regardless of my income level. And that's a huge gift.

[A]

That's enormous. Just curious, do lawyers in Argentina make. Is it equivalent to what lawyers make here?

[B]

No, I wouldn't say it's quite the same. And my mom was a family. Family law attorney, so not necessarily the ones that rank in the.

[A]

The big ten million dollar cases.

[B]

Yeah. But I just remember she was very busy. So in the morning she used to go to court. I'm used to going to court with her. Sometimes leaving court in the middle of a court proceeding to go pick up somebody that needed to be picked up from preschool. And then in the evenings she had her own office where she saw clients. In Argentina, people take the afternoon hours off, so they work in the morning, often taking the afternoon hours off and then coming back for the evening shift.

[A]

That's really neat. Do you remember in childhood, do you remember like a particular mantra or something? Like your mom or dad would say regularly that stuck with you whether it's good, bad or indifferent. Was it like encouragement? Was it.

[B]

There was a lot of encouragement and there was a lot of pride in who we were, the name as a family and the. And the habits that. So we took pride on being frugal. We took pride on organizing ourselves.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

My mom and my siblings and I tease about this now. There's a constant push to do and be better. So my siblings and I joke about if you came home and you said, well, I got a 90. I got a 95% of my math test. She'd say, what happened?

[A]

Are you serious?

[B]

So I would say a mantra was very high standards.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Very, very high standards for everything. Yeah, Everything that we did.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Makes sense. Lots of times of sharing and connecting, whether it be in a park, whether it be, you know, evening dinner. Dinner. So overall, I just felt satisfied. Yeah, Very satisfied. It felt good. I did feel. I remember being like 14 years old and my. That's when, you know, you start getting together on a very regular basis with friends. And I remember thinking about every fifth or sixth time I would get invited is when I felt like I could ask if I could go. The rest of the time I had siblings and kind of keeping the household running was my job. So I remember thinking, wow, I wonder what it could look like if I could say yes every time I got invited.

[A]

Every time.

[B]

Yeah. So. And there were. So there's times where I thought, you know, I think being part of a big family has so many amazing benefits.

[A]

Yeah, sure, right.

[B]

There were times when I was about that age where I thought that it felt a little weighty.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, absolutely.

[B]

A little costly, if you will.

[A]

A little costly. Yeah. Makes total sense. I love talking through that childhood component because. And this is totally fine. Like, if anybody's sitting on inheritance, great. Like, there's no issue with that. But in interviewing, you know, and looking at four decades and where you've ended up, it's such a different story to go, oh, I had a fallback of a 900 million dollar, you know, inheritance that was coming. It's so much easier to take these risks of boarding a flight, going to America, going to Harv. And I don't want to give away your story. Yeah, but so you framed it up now. It was awesome, as you remember, so feel good. But you weren't. You didn't have your hand out and it was getting dollar bills in it all the time. And I think that's really important to understand. So. Okay.

[B]

But one thing I thought we also took a lot of pride of being resourceful and finding a way around things that seemed impossible, that was things that seemed difficult. Or that somebody would go, you know, the chances of that happening. There was a little bit of a pride. I go, huh? But I wonder how that could be possible. That was maybe a mantra, something that.

[A]

Your dad, who had that more your mom or your dad?

[B]

My mom.

[A]

Would you say because of her profession or more her personality?

[B]

Even one of her challenges right now, one of her mantras right now is I love a challenge. Like there was this.

[A]

There you go.

[B]

It was almost the adrenaline that it. Challenge generated that. But it's something that we all inherited. And as, as, as you said, what are some mantras? That's certainly. Yeah, this is hard. I'm sure we can find a way.

[A]

Yeah, that's like the, our friend Dave Cormac and Gordon and all those guys operating, operating at those like just next, next levels. It's the challenge is the fun. The game is the fun.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Dave says, I don't do it for the money. Yeah, I made a lot, but. And that makes sense now and then.

[B]

With that comes the belief of just a growth mindset and a belief in the possibilities. And when you show up the way you're supposed to show up, when you show up that way, what can the universe do when you show up with that attitude.

[A]

That's incredible. Okay, you went to high grade school. High school. Let's stop at heist because that one, that's when it all started. But grade school in high school, like what kind of student were you? What were you into? Playing sports, grades, all that stuff.

[B]

I was an excellent student, always top of my class, extremely responsible, dedicated. When I was, I remember being, I don't know, maybe 12. And there was the books that the teacher gave you and I had found some other books and I loved reading those and. But my parents thought I was studying too much, so they had put me on a need to study less. And I would hide them under. Yeah, I would hide them under my bed and then I would get up early, early, before they could see my light on. I would do them and then turn it back off. Before I was a nerd, I was a nerd.

[A]

That is such a killer stat or like piece of information though. You're hiding books and I won't, I mean I was hiding the things that 13 year old boys. Yeah.

[B]

And I remember there was a deceased. There was a deceit. They told me, you know, if you study this much, you're going to get. I can't remember what it was called.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And. But I was just really interested. I was really curious. I always had an excellent Relationship with my teachers.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And. And I just enjoyed that connection with them. So I was a bit of a teacher's pet.

[A]

Sports of any kind?

[B]

Yep. I swam competitively probably from the time I was like 5 until I was 15.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then I played tennis and I run all.

[A]

And all those as a kid.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Like you started all those?

[B]

Yeah, Before I was.

[A]

What got you into running?

[B]

We started doing it in school and it was just the, the, the dopamine hit that I got from it. I was also always with a lot of people around me in a busy household. So running and being with my thoughts alone felt really good. And I have always had a pretty intense internal world.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So to spend time by myself with my thoughts was, was.

[A]

That's so cool. Makes, I mean, makes so much sense. So you're going through high school. We're good. I mean, you have a pretty normal life. I'm not going to say average. Be pretty normal life.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Probably above average. I mean, you're sneaking books, which is incredible. And then something happened.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then welcome in the next phase. So what happens?

[B]

So, so. And I'll give you just a little context. My mom, back in 1966, she had been an exchange student to the United States. Okay.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

She had gone to Richland Center, Wisconsin. Now this 1966, when being an exchange student was not common and it wasn't cool. Now it's a, it's a much more common experience.

[A]

More common, sure.

[B]

So she, she went through that experience and it was a life changing experience for her. So for as long as I remember having a recollection of a memory, the idea that we should lean into that and take advantage of something like that was. Was a, Was a present idea.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I applied for a scholarship through an organization called Youth for Understanding.

[A]

Youth for. Okay.

[B]

And so I received a scholarship and I be. So I'm 16 and a half, in the middle of my junior year in Argentina, and I became an exchange student to the US And I went to live in a very small town In Nebraska called Fort Calhoun, Nebraska.

[A]

Fort Calhoun, Nebraska.

[B]

600 people. I used to tease it, you know, the green signs outside of city? It said for Calhoun, 600. And when I came, they changed it to 601.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

But I lived with a family. I was the eighth exchange student they had had and they had three children.

[A]

Oh my goodness. Okay.

[B]

Two of them were already in college and the youngest one was still at home. So Jeff was the youngest. So I lived with them. It was. They were farmers, so they had Crops and they had livestock. And so I jumped into the. The. The living in a small community in rural America. It was perfect for an exchange student. The. The size of the high school and just a family in the community that really knew everybody and who had many experiences with exchange students. So I was an integral part of the family from day one. Well, maybe a few days later, because I remember coming in the first day and my host father sitting me down and giving me just this whole spiel, and I had no idea what he said. I just smile and nodded. Right, right. So my English was decent, but the speed at which people spoke, I just couldn't keep up.

[A]

Especially in Nebraska, if you came to the south, it might have been different. They talk a little slower.

[B]

Right. So I just remember not understanding.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Anything of what people were saying to me.

[A]

Yeah. So how do they. How does that organization know to pair you? Like, is it geography based?

[B]

You know, it's an organization that has a presence all over the United States and in key states, they have an office, and from those offices they found host families. And those host families get vetted.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And certainly somebody who has a history of having had seven exchange students before. Well, actually, now that I remember, I was supposed to go to Iowa, but my family canceled at the last minute.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

Where I was supposed to go. So the Shaners, the family that hosted me in Fort Calhoun, they took me on a temporary basis until I'd forgotten this part of the story, until they could have a permanent family for me.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

However.

[A]

So like, a little.

[B]

I was like. How do you call it? Like a. They were holding me. They were holding me. They were a bridge until.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Youth for Understanding could find another. Another.

[A]

It's like adoption, like, almost.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. They were. They were hosting me for a couple weeks.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Until they could find another family. Now, I think after a few days, they called Youth for Understanding. They said, we. We like her. We'll keep her. We'll keep her for the rest of the day.

[A]

They wanted to vet you first. Yeah. That's awesome. All right. You settle in. First couple days, very challenging. What. What then happened? Because you did have a good experience.

[B]

I had an amazing experience. I had an amazing experience, and I became really close with my host family. I would go on walks with my host mom.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then I would ride in the pickup truck with my host dad.

[A]

Cool.

[B]

To go check on the crops and on the cows. And in one of these many conversations with them, I told them that my grandpa, who was very important in my.

[A]

Life, who's back Home.

[B]

Who was back home? Yeah, he had passed away by then, but he had been very influential in my early years. He. He was a huge fan of the US and he had told me he and I used to go for breakfast together, just the two of us, which there wasn't very many things I got to do with one other adult. There were always so many other kids.

[A]

The kids. Right.

[B]

These breakfasts with my grandpa were very special. And I remember I was, like, in third grade, and we. I remember this place where we went and had breakfast, and he said, you know, if you ever have the opportunity to study in the US you should totally take advantage of that opportunity.

[A]

Whoa. Very cool.

[B]

Yeah. And he was always just so proud of me. I remember in that. That day where we went to breakfast in third grade, you know, I told you my parents were saying, you don't need to study so much. I remember I had a teacher that would have us. We would work on a piece of poetry, and then we would always have to memorize it. Well, I knew what the. We were working on a piece of poetry. I knew this next step was to memorize it. So I just went ahead and did it before she gave the direction. So I remember sharing this piece of poetry with my grandpa. And my mom's like, you already memorized it and you didn't have to yet. And my grandpa just totally stood up for me and said, I am just so proud of her. And so I had a very special relationship with my grandfather. So this is 10 years later, I'm in a pickup truck with my host father now in Nebraska. And I told him that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And he said, well, we should start checking out some schools for you to go to college here.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I said, but I just don't think I can. I can't afford it. I can't pay for it. So he said, well, let's just go check and see. And so we found I had really good grades, so there were some good options. But not being a citizen, there was not very much financial aid at. Would qualify for. So he took me to several colleges, and I would get a little financial aid, but that was just not enough.

[A]

Not enough, right? Sure.

[B]

So then he said, well, let's go check out the University of Nebraska in Lincoln. And we did a tour. And somehow in the midst of that tour, and because the universe was trying to help me, somebody said, have you. Have you gone to check out the geology department and the scholarships that they offer? And we said, no.

[A]

Did you even know what geology is?

[B]

No. No. So I went I met with an advisor. I learned what geology was. I learned that they didn't have enough interest from students.

[A]

So cool.

[B]

And they were. In essence. I'm gonna exaggerate a bit to make the point. They were kind of giving them away because nobody was taking them.

[A]

Sure. And they have to. They have. That's money they have to give away or they lose it. Right, granted. Money or whatever.

[B]

Yeah, right. So I remember meeting with this advisor, and at the end of this conversation, she said, would you like to check out geology? And I said, I think I would.

[A]

My new passion. My new passion.

[B]

I have a new passion that I just discovered in the last 90 minutes.

[A]

That's so cool.

[B]

I love it. So that geology scholarship. So I was a geology major for my first year. I needed to have a GPA in college for my freshman year. And once I had that, then I would be able to qualify for one of the Regent Scholarships. And there I could pick whichever major I wanted and still get the money. And still get the scholarship. Yeah, Right. So I could. If that happened, I could move from my geology scholarship to Regent Scholarship, and then I could choose whatever. I wouldn't have that restriction.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I started doing that, and so that helped paid for a good portion, the majority of my tuition. I came, you know, after my year of being an exchange student, I went back home to Argentina.

[A]

Did you have to go back home?

[B]

I had to go back home. I had to get a visa. I had to come with a different visa. I had to go and tell my family what I was thinking because they didn't know that. And at that time, you know, this is, you know, 36 years ago, I made one phone call home. It was way too expensive to call, so that entire year, I made one phone call.

[A]

That's it.

[B]

That's it. That's it. It was really expensive. Yeah. So I came home and there was no email, of course.

[A]

No zoom, no.

[B]

No.

[A]

None of that. No WhatsApp.

[B]

I came home, I told my family, everybody cried because I was now 17 and a half. Right. And. And my parents said, well, this is how we can help. So I had an envelope with $3,500. Okay. So I came to the US to start college at age 17 and a half with an envelope for $3,500. I had no idea how the rest of it.

[A]

Translate that into today's money.

[B]

Roughly estimate four times. Let's. Let's.

[A]

That's a lot of money, actually.

[B]

Let's. Let's make it. Let's triple it.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Let's Triple it. Let's call it $10,000.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

That was for my college. That's for all college related expenses in another country.

[A]

That's for your food, potentially. That would cover your food.

[B]

Yeah. So I had to find a way. So between the money I brought in the scholarship from the geology department and then I had a job on campus. I was, as an, as an international student, you could only work on campus up to 20 hours a week for 425 an hours. So I could roughly made $85 a week. So I was a dishwasher. Okay. In the dorms. Oh, and I didn't tell you my. I lived with my host brother and host sister. The, the son and daughter of the family I had stayed in, in Fort Calhoun. They had two college students, so they rented an apartment for the three of us.

[A]

No way.

[B]

So the geology scholarship paid for my tuition.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And they, they helped pay for my room and board.

[A]

Incredible.

[B]

And with the little money that I made washing dishes, I. Yeah. Made the other ends meet.

[A]

What was the. So you sit down. Your first day, you're a geology major, your first day in class, was there any kind of like, who knows what geology is like?

[B]

It was fascinating. You know, the rest of the freshmen weren't radically different, weren't in a radically different position that I was. So we were all figuring this out.

[A]

Doing the same thing. They're all doing the same thing. Really.

[B]

Yeah. Now what I did notice that being different is it required a lot of resourcefulness. And this was a big effort from my family who had given me that envelope with 3, $500 from the host family who was paying. So I. This was an investment that made. It meant a great deal to me and that I was going to take full advantage. So I would say I was more serious and more committed than the average freshman. Got it about school because.

[A]

Makes sense.

[B]

This was costlier, therefore I was gonna put more into it.

[A]

Yeah. Now at this point in your life, going on pretty much your grandfather's words of like, get educated in the United States. Because what I'm seeing on the other side of this is like, you're away from your family a lot of a long time now. So were you ever fighting that? Was that like cognitive dissonance of like these two jobs? Were you ever fighting it that way?

[B]

That's such a great question, Jeff.

[A]

Should I just go home? Yeah.

[B]

You know, so there was definitely a lot of missing my family because we had this very close relationship. At the same time, I had so much less responsibility being a college student than I had been at home. So I had been in essence helping take care of five younger siblings. So there was a little bit of a freedom. Like, you mean I can go do what I want when I want?

[A]

All I gotta do is write a couple papers.

[B]

Yeah. You know, sign me up. So. So I certainly miss them. And I really enjoy the freedom of I could just do more of what I wanted when I wanted.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it was. It was. So I went through that first year. I did really well my freshman year. Then I got a Regent scholarship. Things got easier because now my full tuition was paid. And at that point I changed to a business major. I had a geology minor.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

But I became a business major. And at the end of that year, I end with the savings from washing dishes, I was able to save enough money to pay for what was about an $800 ticket to come home for Christmas. But that was 18 months after I had come to start college.

[A]

How many phone calls in that 18 months? Because in the last year, remember, it was one. In the last year, was it like.

[B]

Probably a couple, two or three? Because it was really. I mean, I. I know that sounds so ridiculous right now. It's hard to even fathom that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But was just not something. No. We would write letters. There were letters coming back and forth on the mail.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

But phone calls.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We're handful.

[A]

We're gonna edit this part out so my kids don't. Just kidding. I mean, I can't even grab. I'm just thinking if my kids went away and called home once or. And I get. There were circumstances. I was just playing the father role. Like, wow. So there's unbelievable grit forming here. No matter if you didn't wake up in the morning and say, I want to form some grit today. There's grit form. And I mean, you are doing something away from home, away from family. You didn't have it horrific at home. See, in this story, I would, I would say, oh, I got it. Your family was so horrible. Like, and you can go far away. But that wasn't the case.

[B]

No.

[A]

So this, this makes it even sweeter. Okay.

[B]

A couple, A couple other things I wanted to mention. I also just the opportunities here. And I think when you and I connected earlier, I couldn't believe that professors had office hours and that anybody could come and spend time one on one with this highly educated, committed professors. That was a bit mind blowing to me. And the fact that kids weren't using that. I just couldn't. I couldn't understand It Right. So I totally took advantage of that and that was key to how I developed some really strong relationships with this professors, including Dr. Hayden that we'll talk about in a minute. There was that and then there were all the student organizations and the opportunities for growth through student led organizations. And so I just really leaned in, into both of those things. And just for context, when I had been in high school at home, my teachers went on strike on a regular basis. And so there were plenty of days where we wouldn't have schools. So there was such a, like, you know, teachers on strike to teachers with open office hours that weren't filled up. And so I thought give me more.

[A]

Right. You're taking it all.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What would it. So contrast. What would a college have been like at home? I get that part, the hours and stuff like that. What else would be different? College here versus college at home?

[B]

Well, some of the issues with, with professors and them going on strike due to salaries would have been, would have been throughout all levels of education, including college.

[A]

Like our hours, the same classes sort of the same or.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

What, what makes, when your grandfather would say that, like what makes the American university so much better?

[B]

I guess it was a better way to ask, right? I think it was an American university, an American education as a pathway to do life in America is. That's what he, he envisioned. And, and kind of the. My grandfather was a businessman and so kind of the innovation and the business development that happens in this country and the opportunities and the meritocracy, that's another really important thing. The meritocracy that is more common here than it is over there. Those were, those were all things that he deeply valued and, and admired.

[A]

Yeah. Solid. But not if you watch the news. If you watch and listen to the news. None of that stuff exists in America. We're just. Right. I mean that's incredible. All right, so grandfather, something that.

[B]

Sorry to interrupt. Something that would have been different in, in Argentina is my education would have mostly been free. There would not have been a cost. So for example, like I think about my siblings, they went to the University of Buenos Aires, so they moved. And the. There's some really good public universities. That's probably where I would have gone.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so the cost of the education is also quite different.

[A]

Big, big difference. Do they have something in place there like our hope scholarship here or how does that all happen? It's free. Who, who's ultimately paying it?

[B]

It's. It's the government.

[A]

Okay, so government, government. Yeah, everything or just that university all.

[B]

Them, the most education there is is public education all throughout levels now, particularly for example, the University of Buenos Aires, which is the, the largest one in the country, has really good quality education. There's also some private universities. I, it's probably not what I would have chosen had I been, had I stayed in Argentina.

[A]

Yeah. Okay, makes sense. So we're going along any sports or anything like that while you're at university Nebraska.

[B]

I, I just did rec, sports competitive.

[A]

Were you like a competitive person at this point?

[B]

I, I, I just did rec and I, you know, I would swim and I would run, but this was just more on my own. I did not participate in any competitive sports there. I was a little too busy. I needed a lot of, I needed a lot of freedom because I needed to be able to take my classes when I needed to and I needed to be able to work when I needed to because my income, my, that money was really important.

[A]

You needed those two right. Plates spinning.

[B]

Right, right, right, right, right.

[A]

And then not either of them slowing down, just same velocity. Okay, so Nebraska. Did you like, did you like the state? Did you like the country?

[B]

I did, I did good. Yeah, yeah, I, I loved it. And you know, you asked an earlier question that I wanted to come back to about merging the cultures, which I think it's a really interesting. So let me, if I was going to put a few adjectives to my Argentine culture is warm, is deeply human, is very connected. It's very in the present, in the moment. Okay. Those are the value, the take time to smell the roses. Okay. Those were the strengths. Now with those strengths, there's also a set of not so strengths. But I'm just going to stick to the strengths.

[A]

Stick to the strengths. Okay.

[B]

Then I look at kind of the discipline, the resources available, the independence, the innovation, the meritocracy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Of the, of the American culture. In Argentina you have a lot of inter independence between people that has it, huge pros and it can have it.

[A]

So.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Disadvantages. Okay.

[B]

But at times it was a little hard to merge this because I could definitely see the, you know, the, the great traits from both of these cultures.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

But I was trying to figure out sometimes there was a little bit of identity like who, who am I? Which of these two? Until I figured out like, I get to be whoever I want to be and I can pick the best from this one and the best from that one. And so that is, I feel I have lived deep within both of those cultures and to be able to pick and make my own mixture of what? This Susanna culture, it's a. I. I think it's a.

[A]

And still fit in.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You never. Did you ever feel like you didn't fit in?

[B]

You know, one of the things, as I think about wonderful legacies from my childhood, it's something that my mom, that I really learned from my mom, is almost you can experience belonging, but fitting in and having to be like everybody else was not. So I watch her, very comfortable, walk her own path, and that is one of the best gifts. So I can connect with others, yet not feel I have to be like them to fit in. In fact, you know, I love. Brene Brown says there's belonging and fitting in and. And fitting in is the opposite of belonging, because fitting in requires to give up some things that are important to you to experience that connection. So a huge gift to me growing up was this courage, the audacity to walk your own path and not feeling like you had to do what everybody else was doing.

[A]

Yeah. Sort of alone versus lonely.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

It's okay to be alone sometimes.

[B]

Yeah. And it's okay to follow it. It's okay to have your own version of what the path looks like. Which it had to, because I like the essence of my DNA came from this culture that was warm, that was human, that was in the present.

[A]

All good things.

[B]

All good things. And then I love the discipline here, the innovation, the. Again, the resources, the opportunity. So. But. But I always felt like a little bit of a different creature, you know, when I was in this groups. But I saw that as a good thing, not as a bad thing.

[A]

Ah, big difference. What are some downsides of the Argentinian culture?

[B]

Lack of structure, lack of discipline, less accountability, less efficiency.

[A]

Makes sense. Okay. Wow. So that'd be. That'd be a hard environment to thrive in.

[B]

It is. Right. That's why then a meritocracy was so exciting. That's why a meritocracy, or at least certainly. Certainly it felt like where my work and my effort could determine my outcomes. That was very empowering.

[A]

Imagine that. Wow. So you're all in now.

[B]

I'm all in.

[A]

You're in Nebraska. It's what you're.

[B]

I started at Nebraska in 1989, so. But in our story, we're kind of sophomore to junior year.

[A]

Okay, do what's going on in the world.

[B]

Do you remember this is 1990America and abroad.

[A]

Do you remember any big stuff? Like, were you part of any big.

[B]

Well, I mean, I think this is about. Well, this. There's a lot of the. The wall in Germany Comes down.

[A]

Okay. Any big strikes or anything, big stuff on. On campus or anything like that?

[B]

No.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

No, Nothing. No.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

There weren't any major events that let me.

[A]

If anything comes up, just. We'll come back to it. All right, so the pivot of all pivots is what I see in your story now. And this is. This, this is the, this is the change that comes about that you have no idea is coming. You're. You're moving in a path and don't see at all. You're not anticipating what's coming next. So you're moving down a path, most likely a great path, a path that I think most human beings would be just content with. Right. School's going good. Yeah. You miss the family. There's some ups and downs, but at the end of the day.

[B]

But I'm having a great time. I'm enjoying the friends. I'm very involved in campus. I'm a great student. There's a lot of things that are.

[A]

Going really well, and then somebody. And I'll let you take.

[B]

Crosses my path. Yeah. So. So I go from being a geology to being a double major in international business and management. Okay. As part of that education, I started taking. As part of my course load, I. I started taking some economics classes. There was an economics class with a professor named Greg Hayden. And I loved, though there was a quality of education that really challenged you to think. Not to just be the recipient of information, but really inspired you to think. And the, and, and the way he inspired learning, he encouraged us to make connections. I found it deeply engaging, deeply satisfying, and I was just really curious. He had done a lot of primary research himself, and we were looking into his primary research. So I spent a lot of time with him in his office hours, learning more, expanding more the content. We developed a great relationship. So I took one of his classes and I took another one, and then I took another one. I think I ended up taking four of his economic classes, all econ classes. And I think it was maybe after the second class, and it was during one of those times when I was coming to see him in his office hours, and he said to me, so, what are your plans when you're done with college? And I said, well, I'd like to go to graduate school. I'd love to go to graduate school here, but I don't think I can afford it. So my plan is to go back to Argentina and I'll figure things out there. And. And he said, well, I think you should go to graduate school here. I Said, okay, I'm just not sure how I could pay for it. And he said, well, how. We'll figure that out. He says, where do you think you'd like to go? And I said, honestly, I having gotten to that point because there was no sense in dreaming when I couldn't afford it. And, and he said, he said, okay, I'm going to tell you something and I want you to listen to this. He said, I think you should consider getting your master's at the Harvard Business School. And I looked at him like, you know, who are, who are you talking to?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And he said, I've taught for 30 years and I've only told this to students twice. And you're the second one. And he said, I think we can find a way. I will help you. I will write your letters of recommendation and we'll, I'll work with you to make sure that you have an opportunity to get that kind of education, because I feel it in my heart that you should. And he says, I sense that there's some big things in the horizon for you and I really appreciate your leadership skills. And he went on and on and on and on. And that was such a. You know, when you have this view of yourself and then all of a sudden somebody that you greatly respect and admire.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Just gives you a different view.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you are open to receive that. It's, it's almost like my identity just got elevated.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Several notches in a 15 minute conversation. And I remember I, I always think about that and try to pay that forward. And so one of the things, one of the implications of that is I'm always on the lookout to call out in people what I'm seeing that they might not see themselves. So that, that happened there was that that happened. Then a few months later, I had my Regent Scholarship that paid for my tuition. But in order to keep my Regent Scholarship, I had to have a 4. 0. Like there wasn't a 3. 9 or like.

[A]

No.

[B]

Well, my junior year, in my second semester, I got a B plus on my Japanese class and I was taking Japanese to fulfill my foreign requirement, foreign language requirement because my Spanish didn't count. Yeah. I got like an 89.2. I got a B plus.

[A]

I never got a B plus. Just to give you, to give you some insight. Sorry, I would have killed for that grade.

[B]

But the point is, I lose my Regent Scholarship.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

So. But at this, but, but at the same time, I had been nominated by a student for the, at the University of Nebraska, what they call the Outstanding Junior Leadership Award. Okay. That was given to one male and one female in the junior class of about 8, 000 students.

[A]

No way.

[B]

And if you got it, you had tuition paid the following year. You got a full tuition. So. So these things are happening at the same time. So my involvement, because of my involvement, I. Somebody nominated me. And I bring this up because there's something that happens related to that that has consequences to today. As part of that, Dr. Hayden was asked. They. Everybody knew he was my hero. So he was asked to write a letter of recommendation for that. So he wrote a letter of recommendation. I did get. I don't. I did get that scholarship. That's how I paid for my tuition my senior year.

[A]

Senior year. Yep.

[B]

But he wrote a letter that I treasured. And I put in my files. This is when I'm 20, 20 years old. I put it in my files. Then Fast forward to 2014. Okay. And I. I had been serving on the board of a nonprofit called Children International. And the chair of the board, another person who called out Gordon Bailey, who called out what he could see in me that was bigger than what I could see in me, asked me to consider becoming the leader of this global nonprofit organization. And I had a bit of the same experience. Like who Me. So then the first thing I needed to do was go update my resume for the board to consider it. So I go open the folder to where my resumes were, and at the front of that folder was the letter that Dr. Hayden had written 22 years earlier, almost to the date. And his closing paragraph said, I hope this committee gives Susanna this scholarship because I fully expect that by the time she's 40 years old, she will be in an international leadership position advocating for the rights of the least and the last. And so I just got asked to, you know, and I just, you know, there's those moments where you go. I was trying to discern because the. What I was being asked to do was a significant challenge and expansion from the role. I was clear, florentially doing nothing. In fact, my kids were little, so I was working part time at a great job part time, but I was working part time. And now I'm being asked to consider stepping to lead a global non profit. Yeah, so it was a, you know, they say you should only take a role that's about 30 stretch. Well, this was like 250 stretch. And so I was discerning, I was having this conversation with God, like, like, do you. Should I do this? Like, am I prepared to do this? And I Go and open my folder. And there's that letter. He said, by the time she's 40 years old, I expect her to be leading in their international setting and advocating for the least and right and the least and last. I was 42 years old when I read it. So, you know, I think this theme of how mentors, people you admire call things and others, and the incredible impact that that has in life, so I make it a point to do that myself because I've been the great recipient of having received that encouragement.

[A]

Wow, what a story. When you open up that folder at that moment in time. Was he still alive? Hayden?

[B]

He's still alive today.

[A]

No way.

[B]

He's still alive. In fact, just, just a few months ago, I went and visited him and we had lunch. He's still teaching. He's 85 years old, and he's still teaching at Nebraska.

[A]

I wonder how many other people that has happened to. I mean, I, I just can't even.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

In fact, fathom that story.

[B]

In fact, I was at the University of Nebraska. I had been asked to come and speak on some panels. And, you know, this was on a Wednesday. I had to meet with him on Thursday, and on Wednesday afternoon, he, he had some health issues and ended up in the hospital. Well, he's in the hospital, and he calls people and say, hey, I'm gonna be out of the hospital tomorrow. Make sure she does not cancel the meeting with me. So talk about a quality human, you know, so he was fine. He was just low on some, on some things.

[A]

Why would, why did he use the phrase, the advocating for the least and.

[B]

Lost the least and the last the least? Because, because he said in our conversations that commitment to, to helping those who were in vulnerable situations was a consistent theme that he saw in me. And so we had spent many hours in his office, during his office hours that nobody was taking advantage, so I would take them all.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So during those times, we just spent countless hours talking about the world. And, and he was such a classy man. We became such good friends. Sometimes, you know, he'd invite me to go to dinner with his wife, so it'd be him, his wife and me. And he was, to this day, he wears a hat and a suit and a tie.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

And he's just like the classic. When I, when, when we had lunch not too long ago, he remembered so many things, points that I had made in class and, but we just had a really good 85. He's 85 years old.

[A]

What did he do before teaching?

[B]

I, I, I think he's he, you know, he, he got his Ph.D. and, and he's been teaching most of his time.

[A]

He was just a lifetime teacher, really.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. He served. He served on some presidential boards and he had served on some committees for the governor. He'd served in the Ford Foundation. You know, he's a very accomplished gentleman.

[A]

Yeah. All right, so let's, let's zoom out for a little bit.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I want to look at that situation where he said he brought that out on you. So for one of a million reasons, let's just say that that day that he brought that out on you, he was having a bad day, got distracted, was sick, didn't come into school, and that didn't happen. What, what the path have been like?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You were heading where you said you were going to go back to Argentina.

[B]

I would go back to Argentina.

[A]

School. What else were you seeing out? Like, did you know what you wanted to do at that point in your life or have an idea or anything?

[B]

Not I, you know, international business, the international scene seemed important to me. This deep passion for having my business skills not just produce profit, but produce good outcomes for other people.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I honestly didn't know what, what was going to become available. Now, going back to. I have learned, and this is related to some of the themes you were pulling earlier is I usually have some ideas, but I tend to not lock in too much on what I want for the future, because I think when I do that, I think you miss some potential turns that come your way that you should consider. So I was always doing the best I could, and I imagine I would go back. I would.

[A]

But not bad.

[B]

No, it wouldn't have been bad.

[A]

Oh, I wouldn't have gone this way. So I'd go downward.

[B]

No.

[A]

So incredibly pivotal because now it's like now the next couple, now the next decade after that.

[B]

It's heavily influenced by that moment.

[A]

So now you go to what, Massachusetts?

[B]

Right. Well, before that. So we applied. So. Okay, this is really interesting. So he says, I will help you. And I said, okay, well, so my senior year, I completed the entire process.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And you're going to keep laughing at this. The reason I wanted to get it done then, because once I went back to Argentina, Remember, this is 1993. We average people do not have email. Okay. And still making phone calls is super expensive. And for me, the cost of phone calls was. Was something that weighed heavy on me. So I'm like, we got to get it done now while I'm here and I can come in Your office. Because once I go back home when I graduate, I don't know how I'll be able to be in touch with you. I don't know if I'll be able to afford all the phone calls that it would take. So I apply, but I know full well this is the Harvard business school, and 100% of those admitted have work experience beyond college. Okay.

[A]

Whoa.

[B]

So. So I'm thinking now, I applied to the Harvard Business School. I applied to several other schools. That was not the only one. Yeah, okay. Well, I got a deferred admission. So what. What I. When I applied with his great endorsement and recommendation, what they said is In January of 1994, they said, we are saving a spot for you in the class starting in August of 1996. So what we're asking you is to go and get a couple years of great experience. And we've already received a spot for you in a class starting two years from now. So not only was getting into the Harvard Business School hard, they were giving me a deferred admission, which is. Which was highly unlikely. So this was amazing. Right?

[A]

Does that even happen? Like, how often does that happen? Seems extremely rare. I've never heard of it. Okay.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. So what I had to do is just keep them abreast of what I was doing and what I was learning and assuming I would get that meaningful experience because 100% of their students, which is, you know, then you go and everything is done with a case method. So it's not traditional teaching, but the case method. So you need people who have done things. And still I was one of the very youngest in my class. Yeah. But that's. That's how I made. So I. So I graduated from the University of Nebraska, came back to Argentina, worked for how long? For a year.

[A]

Okay. For a full year.

[B]

For one year. I worked at a bank there. It's called Banco Cooperative, is a local art.

[A]

Okay, so. Local bank.

[B]

Yeah, a local bank. And then I got married, came back to the U.S. my husband was finishing law school at the time, whereas. So at the University of Nebraska.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

That's how I had met him. And I worked for a startup human resources consulting company for about a year and a half. And then that's how I. Then I stopped. And when I started working with them, I said, In 18 months, I'm going to stop because I'm going to work, in effect, negotiated for them to have. For a right for me to come back to the. To the organization. So they helped fund my Harvard education. And then I Went to Harvard for a couple years and decided not to come back to that.

[A]

How long was the, how long was that?

[B]

Two years.

[A]

Two year program.

[B]

Two year program.

[A]

What's it like up there? I'm dying to know.

[B]

It is. It is. It is. You know, it's a little bit like boot camp. And the first. So my. Just to tell you a little bit about my class, about 800 students. Students. 63 countries represented.

[A]

Oh, man.

[B]

You had sons of kings and people who had come off the street from being homeless. So talk about diversity of. There was diversity in all.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Shapes and form. It's such an. There's an, an environment of so much excellence. And it's a force curve. Right. So every class you're. You are graded on a force curve. What is that force curve mean? Means, you know, the top 10% of the class will receive a 1 in the class, which is the best grade. The bottom 15 will receive a 3, which is not great. And everybody else will be in the middle. Okay. So it's, it's forced like that. That is how it will end up. That's the distribution that you will end up having.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

It was very demanding. You know, I had been, I had always been top of my class. And if I wasn't, I just had.

[A]

To work a little harder, A little bit harder.

[B]

Just a little harder. And then I would get there.

[A]

But you knew, you get there.

[B]

Yes. Here everybody was. So it was very humbling to be with everybody who, who was top of their class. And I remember being in my first finance class and I was trying to value a company right next to somebody who had been an investment banker in New York City for five years and my valuation had to stand up and compete with his valuation or at least the quality of the process.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

They also have a process, a cold call process. Process. So every teacher in every class asks will pick one student to kick off the session and frame the issues. And we had about three cases per day we had to, we had to prepare for. And these cases would be consulting assignments that you would give a McKenzie or Bain or, you know, one of the.

[A]

What, what's an example?

[B]

Company X, Y and Z has this position in the market. They're being threatened by this new competitor. They have the choice as to whether to respond and invest to compete with them or to expand internationally or to consider option C come with a recommendation as to what they should do. Yeah, that's an example.

[A]

And in the recommendation, it's probably not three sentences.

[B]

Right, Right. And it.

[A]

And it's less about you got to defend.

[B]

Absolutely, absolutely. So when you, when you got asked to cold call, you had to frame the issues that. And it's, of course, it's not about the answer. It's about the process and the things that you consider it, and it's about how you can work together. So it was, I thought at the end of my first semester at Harvard, I thought I was going to fail. I thought I was going to make it.

[A]

Do they want it that way? Do they want every. I'll bet you everybody feels that way.

[B]

Well, that, that was the insight for me. I thought I was the only one. But that is how everybody feels. So it's kind of like they. At the heart of it is there is no possible way you could handle all the work that comes your way. So you have to find a way to prioritize, to get resourceful, to lean on others. Because you had three of these cases. And so I would dedicate four hours to each to prepare. That's 12 hours plus. Then you went to class. You know, it was, it was a bit of an insane. So doing what you've been doing before doesn't work. So you have to do something different. You have to think differently. You have to prioritize. You have to play some bets. You might say, I'm gonna prepare these two cases really well, and this one I'm gonna skim it and hope I don't get cold call. You just had to.

[A]

I just got like nervous.

[B]

It was very, it was very. It was, it was very stressful.

[A]

800 people, like in one. Is it like one class the whole time?

[B]

It's one class, but you're divided in, in cohorts. So my cohort, I was part of section B.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And there were 80 in my class.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Okay. Based on what you're, you're, you're, you're organized. You just have a diversity of countries. They. It was just a way to make it smaller so that you could have meaningful discussions. That's for your first year. Then your second year is just. The classes are anywhere. Depending on the class from like 25 to some could be as big as 80.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And they're organized by subject. But first year you have a core curriculum and you're with that group of 80 pretty much every awakened hour. So it's the manding. And so the idea is you get broken down so that then you can build, get, build back up. And that is exactly what happens.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But the being broken down doesn't feel very good.

[A]

How bad? Wow. So if you were. If you were amongst, let's just say a hundred pga. I just. Golf comes to mind. PGA golf pros, they don't really stand out from each other when you're, when you're in the pack. But then all of a sudden a guy comes along like Tiger woods and defies gravity, like, how can he be that much better than all these guys? Was there one of them at Harvard?

[B]

Oh, yes, there were a handful. I was not one of those.

[A]

What makes that.

[B]

Just the sheer IQ of some of these individuals and the, and the experiences that they had had.

[A]

Like where. Pick one and where'd they come from? Let's. Let's unpack.

[B]

Let me think about. Well, I can think of a classmate of mine. His name was Brian and he was, you know, when I started at Harvard, I was 24, he was 32. So he had quite a few more years of experience. He had been a consultant and investment banker. I mean, I just remember he would whip things up and frame things up.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

In ways that were mind blowing. Now, here's what's interesting. There were people that very much whose performance was outstanding in the classroom. I just attended just a few a couple Years ago, my 25th year reunion for that.

[A]

For Harvard.

[B]

For. For Harvard. Yeah. And we have a phenomenal, like, it's very significant amount of us. Come, come back. The people that are excelling now, and by excelling, I'm talking that are excelling in life both professionally and and personally and have coherent lives, they're not the ones that were excelling academically. So you would not have been able to watch academic performance there and predict success 25 years later. So your performance in the classroom under that situation and that environment, I think everybody learned, everybody grew. Yeah, you, you, you definitely grew some strength and some grit and thinking on your feet and being resourceful. But I would not use what you saw in the classroom as predictor of. Um. And in fact, if I go back is those with the best human character and human qualities that 25 years later are the ones that are excelling in a more holistic sense of the word, both professionally and personally.

[A]

Okay, that's. We're going to save that. But I'm going to ask you that as the last question because I want to hear that. I'm dying to come back to that now. So let's come back to the second man in your life who, who sees something and says, I want you to run. I guess he's the CEO.

[B]

At the time, he was the chairman.

[A]

Of the board, chairman of the Board. And he says, Gordon. And by the way, Gordon introduced us. So just to everybody out there, like, we have a mutual friend. And so Gordon's the chairman of the board. He says you're working part time at the time.

[B]

Yes, I was working at Hallmark part time.

[A]

I want you to. I want you to run the organization. An international organization.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Take over from there.

[B]

Yeah. So I loved being. So in 2004, I was asked to join the board of Children International. So this is a volunteer role to provide, you know, oversight to the organization. And I was delighted because I have had this desire to advocate for the least and the last.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So we're on the board. And this. The. The. The board needed some energy. Gordon brought a lot of energy and elevated the challenge.

[A]

Okay. Yeah.

[B]

The way the board challenged the organization for the. For. For the betterment of the organization. And so Gordon, who is about three decades my senior, and I were great colleagues and teammates in that process to really partner with the organization to elevate the performance. I think we enjoyed the work we were doing together. And so one day he started talking with our former CEO about succession. And, you know, I'm. I'm in Los Angeles doing on some. Doing some work for Hallmark, and I get a call for him, and he said, I want to know if you would consider the possibility of being the next CEO for Children International. And I literally about fell off my chair. And I said, what? What? And he said, well, I remember about this conversation we had and this conversation with that and this and this and the ideas you have, and I think you should consider. So I said, okay, I need a moment. And. And honestly, what I needed was, I was a board member at that time, so I almost needed Susannah Eshelman, the board member, to assess Susannah Eshelman, the candidate, with integrity. Because up until that point, my job as a board member was to find the right person. Not to be the right person.

[A]

Be the right person. Find the right person. Wow.

[B]

So I thought. I always had thoughts on the strategy, but the thought is, would I consider that? It never entered my head. One, because of integrity, because I couldn't entertain that thought, that that was not right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, right. And secondly, I didn't think I was ready or prepared or I had the right experience set.

[A]

So that's just like the feeling at Harvard. Right. You're always right behind.

[B]

I'm not right, am I? Good. Like, I. It hadn't occurred to me that I could be prepared to do.

[A]

How many candidates were there?

[B]

Well, what he said to me is, and this You.

[A]

Oh, don't even tell me.

[B]

He said to me, he said to me, susanna, we think you're the right person. So if you. If you are not interested, we will do a national search. If you are interested, let's figure out how to get this done. And I just. I was a little overwhelmed by his confidence. And I'm like, but do you know how not perfect I am?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, I appreciate that you're impressed by this, but do you know the whole of me? Yeah. Right, right. And I remember thinking, I'd like to know what gives you confidence? Like, what gives you so much confidence now? I was having a conversation with Gordon last night, and we were talking about people. And as we finish. I didn't put this together until right now, but as we were finishing the conversation, I thought, he is so incredibly insightful about people, and he sees things very quickly that the average person doesn't.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I was just a bit overwhelmed by his belief in me. And then going, this. This work really, really matters to me. Like, I don't want to mess it up. We need the right person. If that's me, great. But if it's not, we need the right person. So I went and thought about it, and I decided to consider it and stepped in the job a little over 10 years ago.

[A]

That was. Okay, so we're back in what, 15ish? 2000?

[B]

2014.

[A]

Okay, so 2014, late 2014. What was, what was Children International? What did you. What did you walk into? What, what size was it? What were you all doing? And then I want to talk about, like, the evolution there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What you implement, what you see, what.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

What'd you do?

[B]

So the, the organization was doing well, and there were some challenges on the fundraising side that we needed to tackle. And there were a variety of challenges. Like all organizations, you know, we. There was an opportunity to elevate our culture. There was an opportunity to renovate or change model in the field so that the kids could receive more impact. And I came in with several ideas. Okay. So since then, we have been on a journey of transformation, the biggest one of which is we have evolved from being an organization that was alleviating the symptoms of poverty for. For the kids, to really boldly stepping into an organization that says for the kids that we invest in it. We invest in. We want them to break that cycle. Our ultimate goal is that the young people that go through. Through our programs leave in their. You know, we start working with them in their. When they're two or three, and we stay with them through their early 20s. We want them to have the. The mindset, the skills and the tools so that they can accomplish their own individual goals, be sustainably employed, and be positive agents of change in. In their communities. So we have been aligning all the pieces of the organization, the fundraising, our IT systems, our people practices, social media, social media, and how we do all that we do so that we can serve more kids and help them deliver that outcome of freedom, so that they can be a positive agent of change and they can be the actors that are changing their communities.

[A]

So cool. And you go all the way back to Hayden. I just go all the way back to Hayden and go. That's the pivot. Yes. That none of this happens. If that doesn't happen. Just so cool. All right, so I want to ask you, what is the one trait? So you got, you know, you pick one. What's the one trait, the most important trait it might have been as you were raising kids, as you're growing teams and building organizations, whatever it is, what is the one thing that if somebody has that one thing, you know where. You know where they're heading?

[B]

I think it's resilience.

[A]

Yeah, you'd be resilience.

[B]

Yeah, I think resilience. And I would say courage, but courage is a. Is. I think it's an. It's a sub bullet. Yeah, yeah. That. One of our. When I was on the board, we had another board member. His name is Dean Nosvic, and he was the president of the power division, which is the largest division of Black and Beach, the engineering company. So Dean and his organization built nuclear power plants all over the world. And he would always comment and say to me, your passion is your superpower. Your passion is your superpower. And I remember loving hearing that one day I said, you know, I love that you say that, but. And I would love for that to be true, but I'm just not sure how that's true. Why is that such a superpower? And why do you have so much confidence on me on the basis of my passion? And he said, because that passion is the one that keeps you jumping through hurdles when without that passion, you would give up. And that made a lot of sense to me. So passion, something that matters.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

To you with every fiber of your being.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So the kids that we, you know, we serve, Jeff, we serve about a close to a quarter of a million kids around the world. We directly serve a quarter of a million kids, indirectly touching millions, but.

[A]

Yeah. Wow.

[B]

Every time I meet one of these kids, I fall in love with them. I don't decide that. I don't make that choice. I was born with DNA to just love them.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I am so inspired by them. And so every time I meet one of them, I fall in love with them. And my commitment to help all of them grows. And being around them, hearing their stories, seeing what happens when you invest and how then they grow up and that investment has a geometric return. And they're helping hundreds and thousands of other kids. That just makes my heart beat a little faster.

[A]

Multiplication. Multiplication. Teach one, they teach one, they teach two, three.

[B]

Yeah. And I have a couple stories that I can share that, you know, of examples that I have just seen in the last couple months. So. But. But I believe in what we do and how we do it with every fiber of my being. Like, I just. And every time I meet those kids and I meet their parents, like my commitment when. When days get hard and, you know, just because we serve a great mission, we got plenty of hard days, plenty of big challenges. But I have pictures and letters from these kids.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I have many more imprinted in my heart.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Them and their parents. And when things get hard, I think about them and I just find. I find the umph that. That I need. That we need to overcome the challenges. So that's why I think passion really matters. But I think with resilience, with the flexibility that comes with it, with the courage that come with it, if I was to pick just only one. That's the one.

[A]

Just one. Yeah. Yeah. I wanted to hear just one. All right, so part two, then the last question. But this is the second part of it. So you're. You say resilience. Now let's go back to the statement about the Harvard graduating class where you said there's not a direct correlation of where they were then and where they are now. So what did the ones have that weren't maybe doing the best in grades? What did they have that now they're super. Whatever the. They're superstars. And what did the ones that were crushing it with their grades not have that. You look at them now, and I'm sure they're not cleaning streets. Not that that's a bad thing, but I'm sure they're just not where they. We would think they would be. Right.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think those who are doing well and I'm using. Well, not just in the professional sense, not just who has the biggest house or the biggest. But if they would, had to rate themselves, the ones that are most satisfied with the Results they've gotten in life and are doing good things. I think those individuals really managed balance, confidence and humility and people and results. What I see that the. Does that make sense?

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

And I think I talk with my leaders about this all the time. You gotta. It's confidence and humility. It's not. Or it's not. One or the other is both and people and results. And so as I go back, people who might have excelled in the academic environment, they probably had quite a bit more confidence than they had humility and they were more leaning on results than they did on people. That you will do well in an academic setting that way. It's harder to do life that way.

[A]

Wow. Okay, now that makes perfect sense. Oh my goodness. Okay. So they were. They had the books down.

[B]

They were smart. They were the smarter. They were the smarter.

[A]

Confidence higher than humility.

[B]

Yes, they were definitely the smarter.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Once.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But you know, like in. In my role and I talk about this with my team all the time. You could be the genius, but the much more valuable person is the genius maker. Like how in an organization my value is by my. My bigger value comes from unleashing potential in others.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Creating environments where everybody can flourish versus being the smartest in the room.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So. So kind of that, that. That humility to balance it and that people orientation. And I just see time and time and time again when there. There is something that happens when you commit to treating people well and to doing well by people, by all people. I have learned in my experience, God honors that. It just does. It just happens.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I think that importance of that humility and that people to round out.

[A]

Man, it's just a.

[B]

That's. That's my takeaway from watching things.

[A]

This was. This was incredible. Thank you so much.

[B]

That's my great pleasure.

[A]

Thank you for being interested for your time for sure. And. And just like just your vulnerability of your story and the way you delivered it and it's like just so. There's so much inspiration in it for me personally. I mean I. I've got some takeaways and I could tell you the biggest one as a dad is that whole geology thing has me really thinking. It has my eyes opened as I pursue education on behalf or with my own children. Because I never knew. Never even heard of anything like that. So. Thank you again for being here. Thanks for coming all the way from Kansas City. Oh my gosh.

[B]

My great pleasure. Thank you. Thank you for a very interesting. Thank you, Jeff.

[A]

Thanks.