🎙️ Interesting Humans Podcast - Episode 55: 4ocean (Plastic Islands & Panic at 150 ft.)

Host: Jeff Hopeck
Guest: Tony Ernst, 4ocean
Release Date: May 7, 2025

I. Introduction

In Episode 55 of the Interesting Humans Podcast, host Jeff Hopeck sits down with Tony Ernst from 4ocean, a renowned organization dedicated to cleaning up the world's oceans. The episode delves deep into 4ocean's mission, operations, challenges, and the personal experiences that drive their relentless pursuit to combat ocean pollution.

II. Tony’s Background and Path to 4ocean

Tony begins by sharing his unconventional journey to 4ocean. Previously entrenched in the waste management sector, Tony was passionate about reducing single-use plastics in corporate settings. However, fiscal constraints and shifting company priorities led him to seek new opportunities.

"If I would have never have clicked on that link. Someone else would be sitting in this chair today." (02:43)

Tony’s leap of faith took him to 4ocean as a Fleet Operations Manager, overseeing six boats operating seven days a week in South Florida. His military background as a Marine Corps Communication Technician (MOS 2841) provided him with the leadership and technical skills essential for his role.

III. 4ocean’s Operations and Impact

4ocean prides itself on transparency and accountability. Tony emphasizes the importance of documented cleanup efforts:

"Every single pound that we've picked up from day one, from 2017 on, if we don't have photo documentation... we don't count it." (07:12)

To date, 4ocean has removed 42 million pounds of debris from rivers, oceans, and coastlines. This monumental achievement is meticulously recorded through photographs, ensuring credibility and fostering trust among supporters.

IV. Equipment and Technology Used

Tony provides an insightful tour of 4ocean's operations hub in Boca Raton, highlighting their advanced equipment:

• Blue Systems: Surface-applied systems for depths up to 15 feet.
• Sea Doo and BRP Assets: Essential for scouting and debris collection.
• Side-by-Side Vehicles: Utilized for shoreline and beach cleanups.
• Halcyon: Deployed for deeper diving operations up to 70 feet.

"Salt water mixed with the metal banding strap corroded it. Now all of those tires are just acting independently like bowling balls and destroying the natural reef." (08:38)

Additionally, 4ocean employs innovative tools like the Pixie drone, likened to a "Roomba for the ocean," which aids in capturing elusive debris.

V. Stories from the Field

Tony recounts various compelling stories from his time with 4ocean:

1. The Plastic Island Cleanup in Guatemala:

   • Teams worked tirelessly to remove dense plastic accumulations, sometimes walking on what felt like solid land made entirely of debris.
   • "It felt no different than being on land. We were literally cleaning up this kind of plastic island while standing on top of this plastic island." (15:05)

2. A Scuba Diving Near-Disaster:

   • Tony narrates a harrowing experience where he and a fellow diver descended to 156 feet, far beyond recreational limits, leading to a dangerous situation with rapidly depleting air supplies.
   • "We could have had an issue and convulsed at that depth and it could have been the end of everything right there." (25:14)

3. Shark Encounters:

   • Contrary to popular fear, Tony describes sharks as majestic and non-threatening creatures, emphasizing respectful interactions.
   • "Sharks are not there to hurt humans. They're curious like anything else." (31:09)

VI. Addressing Skepticism and Transparency

4ocean faces its share of skepticism, often labeled a scam despite its transparent operations. Tony addresses these misconceptions head-on:

"We just don't talk about it literally reject that entry. We want to be beyond reproach in what we're doing and so extremely transparent." (07:38)

They have developed a proprietary app ensuring photo authenticity, embedding timestamp and GPS data to prevent manipulation. Tony recounts an encounter with a skeptic who confronted him about 4ocean's legitimacy, highlighting Tony's commitment to open dialogue and proof-based operations.

VII. Business Model and Funding

Originally a Public Benefit Corporation (PBC), 4ocean transitioned to establish the 4ocean Foundation. Tony clarifies the distinction:

"Public Benefit Corporation never took donations. Everything any physical contribution that the PBC had was either from direct to consumer sales... or through our partnership programs." (35:35)

All revenue streams—be it sales, partnerships, or government contracts—are reinvested into the mission. The new foundation aims to facilitate donations, expanding 4ocean's capacity to tackle ocean pollution.

VIII. Recycling Challenges and Processes

Tony elaborates on the complexities of recycling ocean debris:

"A lot of what we find unfortunately is beyond what can be recycled... it's just unable to be recycled at that point." (18:17)

He explains the meticulous sorting process where only undamaged, clean plastics are recycled. Degraded items, often compromised by UV exposure and environmental factors, are processed as waste. This highlights the importance of preventive measures alongside cleanup efforts.

IX. Technological Innovations and AI

While 4ocean acknowledges the potential of AI and other technologies in tracking and managing debris, Tony emphasizes the irreplaceable value of the human element:

"Nothing is better than just having teams in the areas that we've already identified as hotspots and just picking it up as they're finding it live." (40:44)

He compares their hands-on approach to other methods, underscoring the ecological benefits of manually sorting debris to protect aquatic life.

X. River Systems and Global Impact

Tony shares 4ocean's extensive work in river systems, particularly in Guatemala:

"We removed over £4 million... primarily was coming from the Rio Matagua." (61:00)

Their efforts prevent plastic from reaching the Caribbean Sea, collaborating with organizations like The Ocean Cleanup to implement large-scale boom systems. Currently, 4ocean is expanding its focus to regions like Indonesia, aiming to intercept 16,000 pounds of debris daily.

XI. Political Considerations

Addressing the intersection of environmental issues and politics, Tony advocates for a bipartisan approach:

"This is a human issue... plastic is a petroleum product... never let perfection get in the way of progress." (67:30)

He emphasizes that combating ocean pollution transcends political affiliations, highlighting the universal health and environmental benefits of reducing plastic waste.

XII. Personal Reflections and Motivation

Tony opens up about the emotional toll and personal motivations behind his work:

"Sometimes... it [seeing trash] makes me feel like you're on this treadmill that's speeding up and it's never going to slow down or stop." (73:19)

He finds solace and purpose in inspiring the next generation and witnessing the tangible impacts of 4ocean's efforts. Tony underscores the importance of passion over financial incentives in sustaining the demanding cleanup operations.

XIII. Future Plans and Growth

When posed with a hypothetical $100 million donation, Tony outlines strategic expansion:

"It would be a rapid expansion of our full-time captain and crews." (69:57)

Funds would primarily bolster operational capabilities, allowing 4ocean to scale their mission-driven efforts in identified hotspots lacking adequate infrastructure.

XIV. Closing Remarks

Jeff concludes the episode by expressing admiration for Tony's dedication and the profound work of 4ocean. Tony acknowledges key supporters and recounts the pivotal role of individuals like Keith, whose encouragement was instrumental in 4ocean's inception and growth.

Notable Quotes

• Tony Ernst (04:54): "Everything that we're doing is completely photographed more... every photo now has a timestamp and a GPS stamp that's part of that photo and cannot be manipulated."

• Tony Ernst (16:10): "In this region, the most popular thing that we find would probably be single use water bottles... and bottle caps."

• Tony Ernst (49:44): "We could save dolphins, turtles, birds because of our hands-on approach."

• Tony Ernst (55:54): "Every bracelet now is made out of material that we've removed from the ocean."

• Tony Ernst (67:35): "Never let perfection get in the way of progress."

Key Takeaways

• 4ocean's Impact: Successfully removed 42 million pounds of oceanic debris, with ongoing efforts to scale globally.

• Transparency and Accountability: Meticulous documentation ensures trust and credibility, countering skepticism head-on.

• Human Element vs. Technology: While AI and advanced tools aid in tracking, the hands-on approach remains crucial for ecological preservation.

• Global Collaborations: Partnerships with organizations like The Ocean Cleanup amplify 4ocean's reach and effectiveness.

• Personal Commitment: Tony's journey underscores the power of passion and resilience in driving meaningful environmental change.

Conclusion

Episode 55 offers a comprehensive exploration of 4ocean's endeavors, challenges, and triumphs in the fight against ocean pollution. Tony Ernst's candid narratives and unwavering commitment provide listeners with a profound understanding of the complexities and rewards inherent in safeguarding our planet's marine ecosystems.