Ep. 56: Retired U.S. Secret Service Agent (Near-Death Story & More!)

Summary

🎙️ Interesting Humans Podcast - Episode 56: Retired U.S. Secret Service Agent (Near-Death Story & More!)

Release Date: May 15, 2025

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Introduction

In Episode 56 of the Interesting Humans Podcast, host Jeff Hopeck welcomes Scott Bryson, a retired U.S. Secret Service Agent with a storied 25-year career. Scott shares his experiences, challenges, and memorable moments from his time protecting high-profile individuals, including his tenure guarding members of the Trump family. This episode delves into the intricacies of Secret Service operations, personal anecdotes, and insights into the evolution of the agency.

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Early Career and Joining the Secret Service

[00:52] Scott Bryson: Discusses his initial experiences and the rigorous process of becoming a Secret Service agent.

• Overcoming Challenges: Scott recounts not passing the Treasury exam on his first attempt, highlighting the dedication required to finally secure his position after a year of preparation.

  • “I took the treasury exam. Did not pass it. Waited one whole year.” [00:56]

• Motivation: His drive stemmed from a desire to serve the country while ensuring financial stability for his family, emphasizing the balance between patriotism and practicality.

  • “If I can check two boxes at one time, I can be a patriot and serve my country.” [14:45]

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Assignments and Operations

[04:49] Protection Details: Scott elaborates on his roles within the Secret Service, particularly his assignments to presidential details.

• Protecting Political Figures: He shares experiences protecting President George W. Bush, including interactions with notable individuals like Andy Card.

  • “Andy Card was such a hard charger because Bush was a hard charger.” [24:54]

• Operational Insights: Detailed accounts of daily operations, shift work, and the logistics involved in ensuring the safety of protectees.

  • “You have to have eyes on, right. So we're sitting there... dreaming up stuff.” [42:54]

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Critical Incidents and Near-Death Experiences

[02:13] Afghanistan Missions: Scott recounts his deployments to Afghanistan, working with elite teams and navigating the dangers inherent in such missions.

• “I've been to Afghanistan twice... Counter Assault Team.” [00:52]

[04:49] Jamaica Incident: One of Scott’s most harrowing experiences involved protecting Jenna Bush in a high-risk area of Kingston, Jamaica. The operation nearly turned deadly before being de-escalated due to the presence of the presidential daughter and a media crew.

• “I really thought we might not make it out that night.” [03:14]

[44:12] Attempted Arson Incident: While stationed in New York protecting Eric Trump, Scott and his team faced a dangerous scenario where an individual attempted to burn down their surveillance trailer, leading to a life-threatening situation.

• “We almost got burned up one night.” [42:55]

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Career Progression and Challenges

[21:37] Promotion to Detail Leader: After years of dedication, Scott achieved a promotion to oversee protection details, notably guarding Eric Trump. This role came with increased responsibilities and unique challenges, especially balancing personal life with the demanding nature of the job.

• “That's why I did the job, and it was the most challenging assignment I've ever had.” [68:53]

• Balancing Personal and Professional Life: Scott shares personal milestones, including the birth of Eric Trump's child, highlighting the emotional and logistical complexities of protecting a family.

  • “Mike called me and said... Laura's water broke.” [82:28]

• Impact of COVID-19: The pandemic introduced unprecedented challenges, leading Scott to take a temporary duty assignment in Hawaii, which was abruptly affected by the outbreak, forcing him to return to mainland operations earlier than planned.

  • “We did that for about two years, just under two years.” [119:57]

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Reflections and Insights

[124:32] Lessons Learned: Scott reflects on his career, emphasizing the importance of resilience, integrity, and the ability to compartmentalize personal beliefs from professional duties.

• “I think DEI's hurt the agency in certain ways... The standard is the standard.” [128:04]

[131:19] Critique of Agency Operations: He critiques certain operational decisions, such as the lack of a dedicated Counter Surveillance Unit (CSU) during critical incidents, believing that additional surveillance could have prevented tragedies.

• “I believe they would have found him... We had surveillance guys.” [130:00]

[123:32] Post-Retirement Goals: Transitioning from active duty, Scott discusses his aspirations to support fellow veterans and first responders through mental health initiatives and his burgeoning podcast, aiming to provide a platform for sharing experiences and fostering community support.

• “There's not a whole lot out there for the law enforcement community...” [125:32]

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Notable Quotes

• On Overcoming Initial Failures:
  “I took a tutor, a couple tutor sessions, and I passed it the next time.” [19:48]

• On the Human Element of Protection:
  “Eric Trump is one of the nicest human beings I've ever met.” [68:53]

• On Compartmentalizing in the Secret Service:
  “You don't care [about protectee's politics]. You compartmentalize.” [24:56]

• On Challenges During COVID-19:
  “I had to pick up my work and one guy retired. So, like, I was a little bit of a burden.” [119:56]

• On Agency Standards:
  “The standard is the standard. It should never... Are you competent?” [128:04]

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Conclusion

Episode 56 of the Interesting Humans Podcast offers an in-depth look into the life of Scott Bryson, a retired Secret Service agent whose career was marked by extraordinary dedication, high-stakes protectee assignments, and personal sacrifices. Through vivid storytelling and reflective insights, Scott provides listeners with a rare glimpse into the complexities and demands of protecting some of the nation's most prominent figures. His experiences underscore the importance of resilience, adaptability, and the human connections formed in the line of duty.

Scott's narrative not only highlights the operational aspects of the Secret Service but also emphasizes the emotional and psychological challenges faced by those in such critical roles. As he transitions into retirement, his commitment to supporting fellow first responders and sharing his experiences through social media and his podcast reflects a continued dedication to service and community.

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Thank you for tuning into this detailed summary of Episode 56. For more real-life stories and insightful discussions, subscribe to the Interesting Humans Podcast hosted by Jeff Hopeck.

Transcript

[A]

All right, folks, welcome back to another episode. I have Scott Bryson here, 25 year retired Secret Service agent out on Instagram, YouTube, TikTok your Scott Bryson, BTS, right.

[B]

BTS for beyond the Service.

[A]

Beyond the Service, yep. And what a story we have here today. Oh my goodness. So if each time I bring on somebody who's done this incredible line of work, it's impossible to interview you guys like the exact same way because your careers look so different. So I've had on Eddie, I've had on Derek. And just looking at the three you guys, all three retired Secret Service agents. Such different careers. Yeah, man, you got an incredible one. So I can't wait to hear more about it today and share it.

[B]

I appreciate you having me on.

[A]

I'm gonna just go right in. Tell me if you ever almost died on the job.

[B]

From sleep deprivation. Probably. Yeah. It's not as. Sometimes it's not quite as sexy as. As the movies make it to be. There's a lot of boredom, which is a good thing. We believe it or not, boredom is a good thing. The Secret Service. But yeah, there was a couple of times when I felt. Felt really scared. I've been to Afghanistan twice. One time as a Counter Assault Team guy worked with some seals. That was cool. So that was a little hairy, but I felt like cat. Cat. The CAT Team. Counter Assault Team.

[A]

Counter Assault Team.

[B]

Sorry, a lot of acronyms.

[A]

You're good.

[B]

So worked with Seal Team 3, I think it was, but I don't remember. But I mean it was a little hairy because it's Afghanistan but you had the boys, so you felt good. The second time I went to Afghanistan, I was a shift agent, so I was doing Karzai's palace when President Bush was in office in 08, leaving office, remember he had the shoes thrown at him in Iraq. Was it Iraq? Yeah, Iraq. And so we were in Afghanistan. So I had done Kars Ice palace as the site agent and grs, which is the global response staff for the CIA. They were my. So so many acronyms. My qrf, my Quick Quick Reactionary Force. Right. So, so, so if anybody, if your audience is familiar with like 13 hours, those guys was kind of who I was embedded with. And we were at like a CIA compound in Kabul and we were there for like a week without telling the Afghanis because I guess they just didn't trust them.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I. That was a little hairy and we can talk about. But the scaredest I ever was was actually in Jamaica when I thought I might actually die was I was Working a two man element, Counter assault team element with Jenna Bush. And we went down to like a shanty town. She was doing a documentary with Diane Sawyer, I believe it was back in the day. Jenna was working for UNICEF and they were trying to make a documentary about behind the scenes type of stuff. And we went down to a shanty town which was basically a drug lord area. And we went in like a three or four car motorcade. And the people down there initially thought that they were gonna get. They were getting raided by another gang.

[A]

Oh boy.

[B]

But they said the reason they didn't shoot us up is because they saw a bunch of white faces, you know, Down Kingston, Jamaica is no joke, man. Kingston, Jamaica, if anybody's ever been to Kingston, Jamaica, they know it's rough. And I've been to Cape Town, that's also a rough place. But you would think you would be scared to death in Afghanistan.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Not Jamaica. But I really thought we might not make it out that night. Well, we, we did, but it was a little, it was a little shady.

[A]

I mean, so what? Cars roll up on you.

[B]

So we can't imagine like a really narrow road just big enough for a car.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Like a one lane road.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

But it's shanty, like sheet metal or whatever the stuff, you know, I mean, like thin. Like it's, it's shax is what it is.

[A]

Yeah, sure.

[B]

And it was very. I think there was some electricity down there. I can't really remember, but I remember like being lit by fire, you know, it felt like you were totally in a third world country.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Even though it was Jamaica people go to. I went to Jamaica for my honeymoon.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So there's that side and then there's this other side. Right. So Kingston is rough. And it was just really tall. I remember really tall walls and I just remember seeing shadows of people scurrying around, grabbing machetes, getting a case, and I'm like, oh, we're in it, you know. So my buddy John that I was with and myself were the tactical support. Right. We had our M4s or whatever. And we had a counterpart from Jamaica police and he had a Glock with a 30 round mag. So he was like, we shouldn't be down here. We're like, yeah, no kidding. We don't want to be down here either. It was like 10 o' clock at night. 11. It was late, you know, it was like, like it was dark. And so we went down there and I think it got deconflicted pretty quickly because they saw Jenna get out. They're like, oh, that's the president's daughter. And then there's a news crew and lights and, you know, camera. So it worked out, but wow.

[A]

All right. Do all Secret Service agents walk around the president and wear suits?

[B]

No. It's a good question. So very few do. Actually. I had the privilege of doing. I'll try to explain these acronyms, ppd, which as you know, is Presidential Protective Division. So when you start with the Secret Service, you're in phase one as a criminal investigator. I started in the Charlotte field office. Some guy start in Dallas or Detroit or whatever. Right. So you go and do your investigative time. Then you go phase two, five or six year mark. Usually around the five or six year mark, you go to phase two. And that's when I went to ppd. Some guys go to vp, some guys go to formers.

[A]

Vice president. Vp.

[B]

Yeah, vice president. Some guys go to like, you know, Carter's passed away now. But like guys go to plain Georgia or they did, you know. And some guys would go to California to Reagan or Bush 40.

[A]

What are those details called? Do they have a name for them like satellite?

[B]

No, they call former. Just a, like former Carter or former Bush.

[A]

And do those former kids of those presidents still get, um, it gets a.

[B]

Little tricky because they can do executive orders. You know what I mean? But like any child up to eight originally, back in the day, it was when you left office, if you had a child up to age 16, they got it. You know, if you got, if, if you passed away, like Reagan passed away, Nancy Reagan got it because she never remarried. But if they get divorced or remarried, all bets are off.

[A]

Oh, I didn't know that.

[B]

Yeah. Okay. But then like, for example, like when Obama, like when Obama, Obama came in. Well, let's go back to Bush. When Bush came in, his girls were in, I think high school.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So they had it through college and then he gets out. So they didn't get it after that. Right. Because he's former and they're in their 20s. I'm trying to remember how the Obama girls were, but they were smaller. So we sort of watched them grow up and go. So like they got some stuff I think for a little while and anybody watching this that was on that could correct me. But like it, a lot of it's got to do with age.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And stuff like that.

[A]

Oh, we'll get corrected. Don't worry about that down in the comments.

[B]

Sorry.

[A]

We, we'll both get corrected now. It's, it's, it's Funny. As well as, you know, having a personality out on the Internet, you're going to get a lot of opinions. So.

[B]

Yeah. Well, can I just touch on one thing real quick? Kind of segues into that. So when Trump got in this first time in 2016, you know, he, it was different for, for us for that, because he had grown children. Baron was a different situation, but he had grown children and he was a sitting president or president elect. So I, I've seen that too. So, for example, like Eric and Laura, Trump and Don Jr. And all those guys in Ivanka, they all had it, but as soon as 45 was out, that dropped off, if that makes. So that answers your question.

[A]

Yeah. So it dropped off for them because they're older. Because they're older kids.

[B]

Yeah, I think. Yeah. Well, because like I said, it was up to 16, back the way the law was originally written. So when, when, when Trump left office, you know, they're 35, 40, whatever they are.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They. Now I will say this too. And it gets a little, it's a little like every Secret Service agent's career is a little different.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So is every protectee. So like this last time when, when Biden and Kamala lost, we don't just like, okay, January 21st, you're on your own. That's, that's not cool. So they usually get like a six month lead way. Sometimes it's a year. It depends on the threat level too. Like John Bolton, I don't know if you remember John Bolton, but he was the NSA for, I guess for Trump. I don't know if he, he was around back during the Bush years too, but he was one of the NSA Trump, you know, kind of a warhawk type guy and he has a high threat level on him from the Iranians. And so right before I retired in 2022, I was still doing stuff to help them. Like this guy still got protection, but it's based on threat level.

[A]

Based on threat level. Yeah. So there's not a black and white.

[B]

It can get gray. They have it black and white on paper, but it gets gray.

[A]

It gets gray. Yeah.

[B]

Because even if you might disagree politically, they're going to try to do. They don't want somebody to get killed.

[A]

No.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay, awesome. So I'm going to. You mentioned Trump and Eric Trump. You ran his detail. We're going to get into. Okay, let's come back to you in Charlotte. So you get your gun and badge, you walk off stage. That's cool feeling. You go to Charlotte. What was special about Charlotte at the time.

[B]

Well, you're a.

[A]

One of. You're unique. What do you mean to get your hometown?

[B]

Well, yeah, I was lucky because I was a cop. I wasn't a Charlotte cop, but I was a Concord City Police, which is the next town over. So I had been a cop. And the boss down there. So it's called the Special Agent in Charge, you probably know that, but your audience might not. So the Special Agent in Charge, the SAC of the FBI or the Secret Service, he or she is the boss for that office. Right? And it's investigative branch of the service. And that person wields a lot of power. And at that time, the boss down there was trying to build up his office with former police officers so that we could kind of hit the ground running investigatively and not have to train them because you go through a six month training academy. But one of the ASACs that worked down there was. I love that guy. I'll try not to use last names because I don't have permission. You know, I'll try to be respectful. But this guy named Mike, I love that guy. He was a big, strong. He was in his 50s and I was 20 something. I'm like, I want to be that guy. So I mean, he, you know, he's like early 50s, tall, fit, and he's like, well, you know, Fletch, he's for. To turn shoe salesmen into cops. So that was kind of like what he. He made. He didn't really hide. He didn't hide from. He didn't do a good job of masking his emotions, but he's like, that's for shoe salesmen to become cops. So anyway, basically they were trying to get a bunch of former cops in that office so that we could be up to speed and just kind of hit the ground running. And I started there and I went to the counterfeit squad, okay. And I did that for three years. And I enjoyed that because it was like street level crime. But it was more like being a cop because it was a lot of guns and drugs type stuff. Because if I'm a drug dealer and you buy drugs for me with counterfeit money, I'm not really gonna turn you in because you ripped me off from about like, I'm gonna admit that I sold you drugs. So there was a lot of. Lot of bad, seedy people doing counterfeit money because they would rip and then. Which leads to homicides, right? And then I found myself on the violent Crimes Task force for one year, which was run by the ATF and The Charlotte Mecklenburg Police Department and the state bureau. Like, you know, in Georgia, you have the gbi.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

In North Carolina, they have the sbi, which is the state bureau. And so I was on that task force for a year. And that was fun because I was like, I got to wear jeans and a T shirt to work. And we were out doing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Good. What I felt like was good criminal.

[A]

Work with, like, working side by side with.

[B]

With local detectives.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's awesome. How old. How old were you at the time?

[B]

Came on the job at 26, I think. Okay. 97. So about 26. 27. Because I'm a December baby. So I think I got hired right as I was turning 27.

[A]

Yeah. Awesome. So you. Come on Charlotte.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You're. You're there for a handful of years, about five years at that point, looking out towards your. Towards your career. So you have a long career ahead of you. Were you thinking, I am only Secret Service, I'm not moving anywhere else? Or were you open to, like, oh, if CIA calls. Yeah, NSA calls, or if anybody else calls at that?

[B]

That's a great question. Which we haven't really talked about. But, no, I knew. So I have an education degree. I wanted to be a high school football coach, which I do coach now as a volunteer. I love coaching football, so I wanted to be a high school football coach, But I was a December grad. Sorry, I'm kind of building a story here. But I was a December grad, so I got hired at a middle school, which ruined me. And I'm like, I am being a teacher. So that's how I found my way into the police world. So I went and became a cop for two years. And I knew all along that I wanted to be a Secret Service agent because I had met a guy. When I was a sophomore in college, I met a guy named Bob. And again, not gonna use last names out of respect. Awesome human being. And I just had this thought. I don't know why, at 20 years old, I had this thought, like, well, FBI agents and secret Service, they're probably just really cocky and arrogant dudes, and they wouldn't talk to a kid like me. This guy couldn't have been nicer. I made him out of Christmas Eve service. He was home and visiting his parents for Christmas Eve. Nicest guy in the whole world. And I'm like, well, I have an education degree. And he goes, dude, where very diverse. We're not. Like, the bureau is very specific, like accountants and lawyers and stuff. That's cool. But he Goes, we're very small and we're very diverse. Stick with your degree. Don't get caught up in, you don't need a CJ criminal justice degree, just whatever, do your thing. So I'm like, okay. So I stayed the course. All my fraternity brothers of course made fun of me. Like, you have a PE degree and you're going to be a what? I'm like, yeah, right, dude. So I'm like, hold my beer, watch this. So challenge accepted. So I went to the police department with the whole goal in mind of becoming a Secret Service agent. Because I listen, man, I'm a self aware guy. I'm not the guy that's going to build your bridge or cut your brain open, right? I'm not dumb, but I'm not the sharpest knife. I'm like very middle of the road and I'm self aware. But so like, how am I going to take my skill sets and make money for my family? Which you can make some pretty, pretty decent money. Yeah, as a federal agent, I was making $24,000 a year as a cop. And I'm like, that, that's not sustainable. So I was trying to see big picture down the road, you know, six figure income, 150,000, whatever it was. Yeah, it varies, right? But like 100,000 to 200,000 is very good money for a person like me from where I'm from. And so I'm like, I can do that. So I had this, I had a goal in mind that I, I'm a patriot, I love my country, but I'm not, not completely like, you know, it's not just about the country, it's about my livelihood too. So if I can check two boxes at one time, I can be a patriot and serve my country. Because I really regretted not being in the military. You know what I mean? So I'm like, I'm a civil servant and I'm gonna serve my country, but I'm also gonna make a good living for my family. And so no, at that time I did not have any desire to go other places. The Secret service was kinda like my goal and I got it. So I was tickled to death. Yeah, sorry, it's a long answer, but no, it's fantastic.

[A]

So two acronyms you mentioned in there. Just want you to explain those for the audience and I didn't want to cut you off. You said FLETC and then you said asac. So tell me about both.

[B]

Okay. The FLETC is the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center. It's in Glencoe Georgia. There's one somewhere in.

[A]

I went to the Artesia. I think they're up to five now.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

I know there's at least. There might be three, three or four.

[B]

But I think, yeah, I'm a dinosaur, man. I don't know. So it's like I went to FLETC at Georgia. Glencoe, Georgia.

[A]

There was a Glen Company.

[B]

And so. Yeah, and, and so that's where I went down there. And you do three months there and then you go to your like. So like the FBI and the dea, they all go to Quantico and they're just self contained. But like Border Patrol, cbp, all the things, Secret Service, atf, whatever, filling the money. You go to FLETC for your general stuff and then you go to your, your agency specific. So I did three months up in Beltsville, Maryland, as you know all about. So it's a six month total thing. And then the ASAC is just the assistant special Agent charge. So, Mike, the guy that I was talking about, the guy that I wanted to be like, yeah, sorry, Mike, if I let you down. I'm. I'm 53. I'm not sure I'm in good shape like you were. But he's also. I love that guy. I think he's still with us. He's probably in his 70s, but he's. He was an awesome dude, but like he was the asec, the number two guy.

[A]

We'll try to tag him. You do the same too. Once we get this episode done, we'll try to find him out. And social media, he's great. You mentioned military and you said you regret not doing the military, which is interesting. I have that. I share that same feeling with you. Why do you feel you didn't do military?

[B]

Well, it was pretty simple for me back then. It was. I graduated high school in 1990. Okay, so there hadn't been a war since Vietnam. Right. A major conflict. And so like of course, Operation Desert Storm and all that hit in like 1991. But I was already in college. My thought was, which is kind of weird because both of my grandfathers were World War II veterans that were in the army and they both survived. And I lived two and a half hours from Fort Bragg. So the fact that I didn't try to become Special force is like, I'm so mad at myself. But I didn't think about it then. You know what I mean? And so my thought was, you play whatever sport you're playing for as long as you can. I played college football. I was A walk on. So it was a hard road, but I wasn't good enough to go pro. I knew that. But I was self aware that I'm not going to the league, but I want to play ball for as long as I can. So you play whatever sport you play in for as long as you can. You get a degree, you get a job, you get a wife, and you live happily. That's just what I thought.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then of course, after 911 happens. I'm like, man, I would have loved to have been a seal or I don't know if I would have made it through the. You know, those are hard programs. But I love my country and I wanted to serve, Serve, you know, in that capacity. And I. And I didn't. But I've served in different way. So as an older man, I've taken solace in that. But, you know, ego. Why? I think ego's got a lot to do with it too. You know what I mean?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So, all right, you.

[A]

You said you made it on your first attempt, which is pretty cool. Secret Service, so.

[B]

No, you didn't. No.

[A]

Oh, you didn't pass the test straight out of.

[B]

No, I. No, I did not. So first of all, I'm glad you brought that up. Sorry if I misspoke or led you down a path. Not true. So everything's been very hard for me. And this is kind of why I'm doing a podcast, because I want to. I try to speak. Well, first thing I do, I speak truth to power. For 25 years, I couldn't really talk because of the Hatch act. And I'm so tired of not being able to talk. So I want to speak truth to power. And it's sort of cathartic too. Right. And then I think resiliency and perseverance are things that are kind of lost. It's easy to lose this day and age. You can get defeated very easily with the world that we're living. And so I'm trying. I want to help people without sounding completely, like, weird, you know, cliche. I do want help. Yeah. But I want to help people. I really want to help people. And it was very hard. I took the treasury exam back then it was called the treasury exam because Secret Service was under the Department of Treasury, which we should have never left, but. But 43, another episode, that's a whole nother episode. But Bush, you know, he created dhs, and so he put us over, I think, think he put us over there for some credibility, which, whatever. So we took the treasury exam, which I did not pass a lot of math, you know, and stuff. It was very hard. At least for me, it was hard. And so they said you could reapply in a year. So I had to wait a whole year.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

So I could have probably been on the job a year earlier, but I didn't pass the test. I was pretty squeaky clean back then. And I felt like I'd make. I would make it through the process, but I got to pass this big hurdle. So I took the treasury exam. Did not pass it. Waited one whole year. Back then we had to buy books, believe it or not, for you young people. I didn't have a computer, but there was no Internet. So I went and got a book. The guy that was over the hiring department said, hey, go get this book and do math for a year. I got a tutor, a couple tutor sessions, and I did some math, worked on this workbook, and I passed it the next time. But I had to wait a whole year. So I got in the Secret Service in December of 97, but it was a two and a half year process. It was a two and a half year. I had applied with a Secret Service before I was ever even a police officer. I hadn't even got my police officer job when I had applied.

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

It took a lot.

[A]

You passed the test and you're saying two and a half years from after the test.

[B]

So. So a year and a half. So, okay, I took the pro, Applied.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Applied. Get the test packet. Don't pass it.

[A]

Don't pass.

[B]

So then a year goes by. So then a year and a half after you took the test, there was still a long process.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So my process should have been a year and a half, but it was two and a half.

[A]

Two and a half because of that.

[B]

Because. Because I had to wait.

[A]

Yeah, that's about right. Mine was almost too total, even passing it the first.

[B]

Yeah, it's a lot different now. They've kind of sped it up a little bit. But I also think they might have lowered the standards a little bit. I hope not.

[A]

I hope we get into that.

[B]

I hope they have it.

[A]

I think we share this same feeling there. All right, so you go, so you're going through your career. You're five or six years in Charlotte. What happens then? What did you want to do? Did you get what you.

[B]

I did get what I wanted and had had a very transparent conversation with my wife. I had worked really hard. I've. I've always had to work hard, which I. I don't feel sorry for. Myself. It is what it is. Things just haven't come easy and that I feel like I've had to work hard. And I think that's what makes me appreciate the things that I have. And so I told my wife I've worked my ass off down here, and I led the office in a red. I mean, I was locking people up left and right, and I said, if they don't give me what I want. Because it's very political, as you know. It can be political. Like sheriff's departments can be political. Police departments aren't as political because it's not elected. I mean, there's always politics and everything, but, like, elected positions are political. Well, the Secret Service is like a macrocosm of that. And it's not always, you know, it's not always. You know, there's some nepotism sometimes, not always, but I'm like, if they try to send me to somewhere I don't want to go, I'm probably gonna go back to the police department. Are you okay with being poor? She's like, yeah. Wow. So, I mean, I'm just being honest. Like, I was like. And I don't know if I would have done that, but I probably would have. I'm pretty headstrong, you know, I mean, like, I made it very clear I want to be on the Counter Assault team. The only way to get to the Counter Assault team is to go through ppd, which is the president's team.

[A]

You wanted Cat, you.

[B]

I was. I was Cat or bust.

[A]

Okay. Okay.

[B]

That's what I want. Yeah. And so it worked out. So they said, oh, you're gonna go to ppd? President's detail. I'm like, perfect. And then I got there, and of course you have to, you know, you don't just go right to Cat. I was there for almost two years before I got to try out, so.

[A]

Doing what kind of stuff?

[B]

Shift work. Yeah. So when you. You asked earlier, I think you asked you, do you work POTUS all the time. The answer is no. So when you go to potus, President of the United States.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So when you go to the detail, you get assigned as a junior agent. You get assigned to, like, back then, I'm not sure who's in there. Like, you got the national Security advisor, You got the chief of staff. I don't really think the chief of staff should have protection, but they do. Whatever.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I got Andy Cards detail. So I worked. I worked Bush for. For six or seven months, like, as a working shift agent, you know, like the Close protection stuff, you know that people call bodyguards. They're not bodyguard. We do not like the term bodyguard. But that. But that's what the people think. But like the close protection stuff. I was a junior agent, so a lot of time, you know, I was hanging out with the press. Cause there's always an agent with the press. Ever since Reagan got shot, they have a press agent. Right. So a lot of times you work in the press or you might be working the number four guy. So you're kind of low man. And I did that for a while. Then I went to Andy Cards detail because it's like called a satellite. It's a. It's like a subsatellite. And then you get to go to your satellite, which is transportation section or the first lady section or the counter Surveillance section or the Counter Assault team. And so you kind of. It's building blocks.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They don't just throw you to the wolves because it's. There's a lot going on.

[A]

Yeah. So Andy Card, I have a couple, three or four cards upstairs from him that he actually signed it in. Blue, actually was his favorite color. Funny because I'm holding a blue pen. But he would come in during the holiday season, during the Christmas season, he would come in like two hours early before the start of his shift and hand sign these cards for every single support at the White House.

[B]

He's a really good guy. I liked him a lot.

[A]

Yeah. Which is cool.

[B]

He was really nice. Funny story about that is. So Andy Card, as the chief of scores, Bush. Whether you agreed with Bush's Paul. I think I probably agreed with his politics more back then than I do now. But your Secret Service agent, you don't care. Like you compartmentalize. And that's one thing I do say about the Secret Service is guys are pretty good about compartmentalizing. One of my dearest friends was a big liberal, but he. I know he didn't vote for Bush, but he, he didn't. He went and did his job every day just like I did. For like, it is what it is. You compartmentalize. And that's what makes us, I think, set apart so good men and women over there. And so Andy Card was such a hard charger because Bush was a hard charger. Bush would literally be in the Oval at 6 in the morning. At 6am he was in the Oval. Well, that meant Andy had to be at work, Mr. Carr, I should say, at probably 5:30. So the secret Service calls it pushes. You probably remember that term, your push. Right. So that's just your shift change. It's usually 6, 2 and 10. But then of course, you got to build in time for the brief. So you, you know, it's 30 minutes or so. Normally guys work at 5:30. If you, if your shift starts at 6, you're going to show up at 5:30. Well, we were having to push at 5 to get him across to the house. So that means you had to be at work at 4. It just kept backing up. So like day shift was brutal because you're like, it's middle of the night trying to get. You're getting up at 3:30, 4 in the morning to go to day shift. I'm like, what? I'd rather work midnight.

[A]

Yeah, right.

[B]

Day shift was terrible.

[A]

Oh, I remember some of the nights sitting on the back. Whether it was the beginning, like you said, of a very early morning shift day shift or I did some midnights right. In order to, you know, you know, save some hours going on a trip and stuff like that. But some of my favorite times were when George W. Would come out and play back and forth with Barney. But the amount of time, like his skin schedule. I remember 5, 58, 6:02, 6:04, 6:06.

[B]

He was like clockwork.

[A]

It's unbelievable.

[B]

Some of my fondest memories as a shift agent. And I'm not going to talk about tradecraft on here because you know that I won't try to go to prison. I'm not going to talk about numbers or kind of like some of the nuancey stuff. But it's not. What I'm about to say is not a secret. Like if he's going from point A to point B, he's going to have guys with him. Right. That's not, that's pretty obvious everywhere. I would never want to be president because you're never alone on how the guy even comes up for air for one second by itself. I mean, never alone. So depending on what post you're on and you know, you remember the like, whatever post you're on, if he came down on the elevator, you let him over or you trailed or you whatever. Right. So like if you were on. And like we'll say the post numbers. But like if you're on post X. Yeah. And you were the. Okay, well I'm, I'm on post X and I know he's coming out. Like you'd have to constantly war game. Okay. If I'm on this post, when he comes down, I'm doing this. And we had little cheat sheets. You know what I Mean, because you want it to be. It's choreographed. It's completely choreographed. Especially it's very sterile environments. Corey. But you don't, you don't want to do anything to upset the apple cart. So. And it's depending on your shift leader. Like your shift. Like your shift leader will make or break you. Like, if you do something to piss him off, you're not working again. You know, it's like so like this first guy had was a very anal retentive. And I was like, ah, I'm scared to death, you know. So I want to make sure. Little cheat sheet. So if I'm on this post, I do this, on this post I do that. So I love getting to lead him over in the mornings, especially in the wintertime. He'd come out with his big old cowboy hat on and his overcoat. He'd be outside. The thing I liked about him was he didn't make the guy. Now the other guy would take Barney out. Yeah, but like Bush would take him. Dale. That's right.

[A]

I love.

[B]

But Bush would take him out to let him go to the bathroom like any other normal guy. And he'd take him out in the yard, he'd do his thing and he'd go to the oval. Well, in the wintertime he'd have his big coat on, his cowboy hat. It's cold as crap, you know, in January. And you'd lead him over and you'd walk through the oval because you opened the door for him. You know, he didn't have a key to the place. You know, everything we do, everything you open the door and you got, you know, you'd get to walk through the oval to get, get out of the way. And they'd have a nice fire roaring in there. I remember that. I was like, man, it's like it's oh, dark hundred.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

This dude's sitting at his desk getting after it.

[A]

I know. Were there times that you've spoken to him without him first speaking to you?

[B]

I never spoke to him first. And first of all, I. The thing I liked about Bush and we're just talking about as a human, not a politics. Right. Like as a human being. I like the fact that he's pretty cocky, which I kind of like because type A personality. He's ball buster. He really was very confident, but cocky. Really not. I liked it. He was very. It's hard to explain. Just a man, a guy's guy. Really.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

And you know, he would say something to you. I would respond like, I think he probably knew Most of us by face. He don't think. He never knew my name. I wasn't a boss, you know, But I think he knew my face, right? But one morning, it was early, it must have been summertime because he was dressed in, like, he had on. It was funny. I'll never forget, man, he came out. I hope this is okay to tell. Like, he's sitting president, right? By the way he came out and he had bed head, man, his hair was everywhere, you know what I mean? And he was wearing a shirt, T shirt that said Myrtle Beach. And I was like, that's where I grew up, going to Myrtle beach, man. He was taking the dog out to pee at like 4 in the morning. I'm like, why is this man not asleep? And let somebody else. I mean, you're the president. I would have somebody doing that for me, right? And he's just like. And he said something to me. He mumbled something. I don't really remember. And I'll never forget going, I'm in the elevator with the leader of the free world and he looks just like I do when I wake up. It was great.

[A]

That's awesome.

[B]

And I was like, oh, Myrtle Beats or something. I forget what I said. And he's like, oh, yeah, Jenna got me this T shirt or something.

[A]

But he probably didn't even know what it said.

[B]

Myrtle Beach. Dirty Myrtle.

[A]

So he was. I mean, is it that real where he just goes down, lets the dog out. Yeah, back up, goes back to sleep.

[B]

A lot of times he wouldn't say, you know, he's just like anybody at five in the morning, he's tired, you know. But like, sometimes, you know, some days we're in better moods than others. Like, he didn't always, like, he would. He would talk to, like. I don't know, what are they? They're not called butlers. You know what I'm talking about? Like the guys in the tuxedos, I forget what they call them. Like the concierge type guy.

[A]

Clarence.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, I do. But he was very friendly to those guys. And sometimes he would say stuff, but, I mean, you know, we're there to work, we're not there to be their buddy. You know, I'm assuming that if you're the detail leader or the number two guy, he probably. I know he knows those guys by name.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Hey, Joe. Hey. You know, very close.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Very Nick or whatever, you know, I get that. But like, for their little worker be. It was more of just being in proximity to hear him. And he would, you know, he's got that funny little laugh.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

It's just.

[A]

I could hear it.

[B]

It's great. I just always enjoyed it.

[A]

That's neat.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So you go. You're. You're still. You want to get on Cat. You're with Andy Card. You have to do your two years. Then what? You have to apply to Cat.

[B]

So you. You just make it known. So it's like you're coming up on your time. Everything's kind of revolves around time. Time charts, right. So you've done this time to do something else. Because they're building you up. Like, they're not just going to throw you to the wolves and say, hey, you're going to Chicago. Do the lead advance. You'd be like, what? You start off doing small stuff. So the same thing with the shift work. So advance work is one part of it, and then the shift work is a different part. So, like, hey, what do you want to do? Well, a lot of people want to go to first lady detail because they, you know, fld, we jokingly referred to that as fine living and dining because they were, you know, all those guys were the ones wearing the cufflinks and riding on. On her airplane, eating off a fine china. Meanwhile, I'm on a C5 going somewhere. But it's just personalities, right? Like, and you don't necessarily get to do what you want to do. Like, and everybody can't. Like, I had no desire to drive the cars. Like, driving the car would probably be fun, but it'd also be stressful.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I don't think. I just didn't want. I just. I'm like, I don't want to be responsible for driving. I'm pretty good shooter. I'm pretty fit. I think Cat's a better fit for me or. Or csu, which I did both. Right. So I didn't really want to go to FLD because I just. I just. That just wasn't my thing. And I didn't want to drive the car. So I'm like, okay, I'm kind of pigeonholing myself here. But that's what I'm good at. That's what I like doing. So that, you know, and I did get to do. So you basically, you just tell your boss, hey, I want to do this. That's what I. 1, 2, and 3. You kind of get your prep. You don't always get your preference, but you try to. A lot of it's got to do with timing and manpower, if I'm being honest. I mean, sometimes you don't get what you want because there's not space. So the thing with CAT is the guys, you know, they needed bodies and a lot of guys didn't want to do it. A lot of guys couldn't do it. And so it was never a problem to get a tryout.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so I tried it and I didn't make it the first time either. So we can talk about that.

[A]

What does that look like?

[B]

So went to cat. What do you call it? The assessment, the countersault team assessment. Made it through the assessment. It's heavy pt, heavy PT oriented thing. And then you got to make. So for people that don't know, qualifications for Secret service agents are 70. You got to be able to shoot 70% or higher, which I think is a little low, but whatever. So you got to shoot 70% or higher. For any specialty unit, you have to shoot 90% or higher. If you can't shoot 90%, you're out.

[A]

And you were talking about on the course.

[B]

Yeah. Pistol and. And shoulder weapons. Yep. And you shoot the pistol out to 50 yards, which is pretty far for a pistol. Regular guy shoot 25 yards, which 25 is pretty far too, with the pistol, but 50 yards with the pistols, that's a pretty good poke you got.

[A]

So what. What gave. What hung you up?

[B]

So there's a course called the tactical firearms course. And it's combination of physical fitness and then you have like. And I'm trying to remember, man, this was like, oh, three, oh four. You have to do this, you have to do. Of course you're kitted up. You're wearing like 45 pounds of gear plus your rifle. So you have to be able to do three pull ups, which doesn't sound hard, but with all that, get three, three fifty pounds. And they're very strict. You have to get your chin over the bar and you dead hanging. None of this kip and stuff. It's.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

You have to be able to do three kitted pull ups as soon as your feet hit the ground. I think you get four minutes and you run a quarter mile and then you shoot a course and you guys.

[A]

Shoot 90% with no break in between.

[B]

No, no, you're huffing it. You're huffing and puffing pretty good. And it's hard to shoot when you're. You know what I mean?

[A]

I encourage anybody out there to try it.

[B]

So it's very challenging.

[A]

Brutal.

[B]

Yeah, it was hard. And so it's called the tactical firearms course. At least it was then. And so you. I shot it. Of course. You don't know how much time has passed. You know what I mean? You know, you have four minutes, you do these pull ups. You run a quarter mile.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then you shoot this course fire with your. With your rifle and your pistol. And it's moving around. It's not.

[A]

Oh, both.

[B]

Oh yeah. It's not static. You're. You start here and then you run here and you run here. It's very.

[A]

It's very long and short.

[B]

Yeah, you do.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And you start off far and you end up at the, I don't know, seven or ten yard line. I don't know, pretty close. And then you finish off with the pistol. Well, like a dummy, I just shot really fast. I threw a bunch of rounds and so I didn't. I was like, oh man, I saw that. I'm like, I'm gonna have to do it. They give you two chances.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I think a lot of guys make it the first time. Some guys don't. So you do a re. You get a second. Of course, now you gotta do. The whole thing is like, it's much easier. Just do it the first time. Like it's a head. A lot of it's got to do with like it's a head game thing too. Like psychological. So like, okay, dummy, you shouldn't have done this right. The first time. So now I gotta go. And the second time it was way harder. Cause you're already gassed. Yeah, I go through the second time and I slow way down. I'm like, okay, I got this. You know, I shot slower. You know what I mean? But I missed it by one. One round. So I had more, you know, I just barely met. So I shot most courses of fire. Secret Service are 300. They scored on a 300. This course of fire, for whatever reason, it was a 200, you know, so you needed to shoot a 180. 180 out of 290%. I shot a 178. I missed it by. I'm like, isn't that one touching right there? And he's like, nope. And so they only give you two chances.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And so there was 12 guys that went to class and two of us washed out. And man, I was devastated. And so the other guy elected to not come back through. We both got invited back because we had good attitudes or whatever, you know, I mean, and so I. He elected to not come back. I elected to go back. And then like that was in. I think that was in maybe like may. I think that was like, maybe like April or May of, oh, four. And then I went back in, like, September, October, so six. So I had to wait. And, man, I'm talking. I was embarrassed. I was just disappointed. All the things. Because you think you're the only one. You, you know, it's like, then when you get on cat, you're like, half the freaking guys there had to go through. You know, you think you're the only one. Like, no one says, how many times did it take you? You just made it, you know, who cares? You know?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But at the time, you know, when you. You see these guys doing this thing you want to do, and you're so close, but yet you're so far away. I was just like, I was in a funk for a few months.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I believe that everything happens for a reason. And I won't get into it because it's not my story to tell, but my buddy John that I interviewed on my second podcast.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I personally believe, like, he was going through some stuff, and so I ended up going through his class with him because if I'd have made it, you'd be on, I would be on. And John and I were buddies, but we became really tight during that six weeks, and. And I just believe it was meant to be. You know what I mean? I think everything happens for a reason. So John and I's relationship with Next level, we're like, he's one of my very best friends. He's the guy you want your sister to marry. You know how, like, nobody's good enough for your sister type thing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

This is the guy you want your sister to marry because he's just a good dude. And so I. I'm at the time. It sucked.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But in hindsight, you look back. Oh, that's okay. This was ordained because we needed to help each other. And anyway.

[A]

That's neat.

[B]

It was cool.

[A]

Would you. So you. What do you do in that meantime? Then you just.

[B]

So I was back position. I guess I was back on cards. I can't remember. I think I was back on cards detail.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What's a day in the life of somebody like Andy. Andy Card? Like, do you go to his house after he's done working or do you just meet him at the White House?

[B]

So you're doing shift work? Like, it depends. Good question. So, like, if you're on day shift, you pick him up and you take him. Or you go. You go. You. The midnight guys go home because they're just watching the house.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They go home and you sit and then you take him to work.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And then the afternoon shift comes to the White House and then takes him home.

[A]

And then takes him home.

[B]

And of course there's a lot of logistics. I won't bore you with shuffling the cars and all this stuff, but like there's a lot of logistics to go into it, you know what I mean? That you don't think about like, because you like. I drove my car to his house. So those guys have to drive to his house, get my car, drive to the White House. You know what I mean? It gets very nuance y when he's at home.

[A]

Him or anybody like that, just non president, non VP will say what happens when they're at home at night. Is there are manpower there?

[B]

Yes. I got a great story to tell about this if you have time for it. Yeah, we almost got burned up one night. It's great. Oh my gosh, I forgot about this story. So we. There was like a construction trailer, like a small, you know, 10 by 20 construction trailers. What I think is what it was, it's what it looked like to me. You've got a phone and a computer and refrigerator. It's very basic, right. And I could see his house. Right. You gotta have, you gotta have eyes on, right? So it was like line of sight. So we're sitting there. It's a cul de sac. It was kind of a dogleg cul de sac. So it was perfect. So like no one should really be coming down there unless they live there. So your spidey senses would go up pretty easily, you know, hey. And then you would check them out and they would. This was way back before Uber and all that, you know, like, so Uber eats. Like no one should really be coming down there, vehicular traffic wise. So it was mostly you would learn the neighbor's cars and things like that. But yeah, you'd sit there and watch his house overnight. One night we were sitting there, then my buddy Jeff and I were sitting in there on midnights and this pickup truck came down the road kind of slow, like slower than normal. I mean people have to go slow, but like this was like 2 miles an hour slow. Yeah, this dude's up to no good. So we go out and it was a construction type truck, white, white guy. And. And I think he was drunk. I think he was drunk. I'm not sure, but he seemed like he, he wasn't very coherent, you know, I mean he was on drugs or drink. I think he was drinking, but I think what he was, he, he, he didn't know Andy Carter live there now? I didn't know this at the time, but we found out later he didn't know anything. Yeah, he just was in the wrong place at the wrong time. And he was looking to. You know how guys go around steal stuff, like copper and all this stuff, right? He was looking to steal construction type material because there was a construction trail. He's like, oh, I'm gonna go and break in this construction trailer. Just petty theft, right? Well, he didn't know two Secret Service agents were sitting in there with MP5s or whatever. And so he comes up and he was real smart ass. Right off the bat I'm like, hey, how you doing, Secret? Of course he didn't believe me because we're. I'm dressed down, you know, I'm not in a suit. Like I have. I'm like, hey, Secret Service, can I help you? And he's like, yeah, right. You know, because he's over in Arlington or something. I forget where Andy lived, but I think Arlington. And he was just a real jerk. This guy's up to no good.

[A]

Oh boy.

[B]

And I'm like, okay, he's casing the joint. He didn't know to do because it's 10 or 11 o' clock at night. He thought he's just going to break in and steal some stuff. I'm like, basically told him to kick rocks, you know, and he, he was, he was not happy. So he left. I went, I was like, man, that guy was a jerk. So we go back to watching TV and watching the house or whatever we're doing. And then a little while later, it wasn't long, it was like an hour. My buddy Jeff goes, dude, we had a push car, you know, was an old Crown Victoria, old hoopty like piece of crap. And we didn't drive it much, but we had that for emergencies and stuff. He's like, man, is that car, is that car leaking gas? I mean, probably because it's a piece of crap. So we went out and this is January and it is butt cold. It's like 18 degrees, man. And so we go out and look because I thought the car was leaking gas. We're like, man, it smells like gas bad. Like it stunk really bad. And then we started looking around and there was gasoline had been poured all around the trailer. And that dude had gotten so mad at us that he had gone and left. And there was a park on the backside of the woods and he had parked at the park and snuck up through the woods and poured gas around that Whole trailer and tried to light a mat. The only reason it was so cold and it was split. Spitting snow a little bit.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it just didn't. Plus, I think he was drunk, so he couldn't get it to light. And so we're like, holy crap. We almost got burned up. But that we had been complaining about not having enough lighting out there and cameras and stuff in tsd, you know, technical security division is like. We couldn't. So after that, they put up proper lighting and cameras. This joker snuck up behind us and could have killed us, man. What?

[A]

No.

[B]

What.

[A]

Do you ever find them?

[B]

Yeah, because. Because I had taken. I tried to get his life. I'm trying to remember, man. So long ago. I don't think he gave me his license. But I. Of course, like any good cop, I took his tag down.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And we ran the tag and they. They got in. The next day, they arrested him.

[A]

What does he get hit with there?

[B]

Not what we. We wanted. We wanted to, you know, what would do, like assault with a deadly weapon, intent to kill, or. He tried to burn us up.

[A]

Right.

[B]

He got some misdemeanor nonsense. But, you know, it's. Funny story.

[A]

What a story. All right. At this time in your career, do you. Are you saying I can't wait for the next CAT test to come up, or are you so frustrated and embarrassed that you're like, I'm not doing cat.

[B]

Oh, no, no, no. I was. I was in it. Like, I. You know, I got invited back. The day I washed out, I got like, hey, we'd like to have you back in the next class. Are you. Yes, sir. I'm in. I'm in. So I was just training, just trying to stay in shape.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, because I knew what I'd gotten halfway through the program or so. So, yeah, I kind of knew what to expect. So, no, I was. I wasn't that funky. I was just. At first, I was like. I was disappointed.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I mean, I got over it. Like, I'm going. I'm going to. Like, there is no plan B. Like, this is going to happen. It just didn't happen the first time. But this is going to happen.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I was good with it.

[A]

That's awesome.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So then let's fast forward up to the test again.

[B]

So go through. Pass it with flying colors this time because I kind of knew what to expect. And I don't remember what I shot, but, like, I did well animated through the course. I'm like, if I can just get. Because that was a big Hurdle. Right. The tactical. It's a big hurdle. And I think they did it at the end of the second week or something. Of course, the CAT program continued to grow. Once upon a time, it was like four weeks long. Then it went to five weeks. Then I'm like, when I went through the first time, it was a five week program.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And now it was a sick. I might. So I cost myself an extra week. So it's like, you know, it's a building block. And I knew if I could just get. So that's the first mate. The first major hurdle is being able to get through the assessment. Can you do the pt? Can you do the shooting? If you can, then we'll. We'll get you trained up. Then the next big hurdle is this tactical firearms course.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Past that. And then you're kind of not. I wouldn't say easy street, but as long as you're paying attention and you're gonna be fine.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Until you get to cqb. Close Quarters battle. I think they call it CQC now. Close. Close quarters combat. Because you have to. You build up to live fire. And if they found, if they feel like you're unsafe, like it. Because they have a nice shoot house. And if you're. If you're not safe enough to do the live fire, then you're out.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And that's very subjective. So I think that's also kind of a litmus test that they can. Because a lot of. A lot of it is you have to be a good operator, you know, tactically, you have to be a good tactician and all that stuff. But you also have to have the right. You have to be able to sit in a truck with four or five other dudes and get along. And if you're kind of a D bag. You know what I mean?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And there are some. For sure.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

But I think they use CQB as a way to weed. Like, I don't think this guy. This guy's not a good fit. Now, I can't prove that smart. I can't prove that. That's just though in my mind, that's kind of. But you do have to be safe too. Right. So if you're going to. If we're going to clear this room and we're really shooting bullets, we need to make sure we can do it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So. But I felt like, because you get a lot of practice, you go through with blanks and sims and all this stuff and you, you know, you ramp up to it. So I felt Like, I, you know, am I still Team six guy? Heck, no. But. But it's like, I felt like I must. I could. I felt like I could do it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And we did. You didn't really lose too many people. Once in a while you'd lose a guy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But he's like. He's kind of a jerk.

[A]

So anyway.

[B]

Yeah. Safety problem.

[A]

So way back in episode one and then episode 30, I had a retired Secret Service agent on who I've come to learn that you're very. Not just friends with, but very good friends with. Yeah. Derek Lyman.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I don't know your story, how you guys met, and I sort of didn't want to hear it until today to see how it fit in. Yeah. So now we're at cat. Now you're at the next test. Did you know Derek up until now?

[B]

I knew him. I knew him. Right. Knew who he was. And we'd crossed paths back in the day, like, because he was from Atlanta and I was from Charlotte, so kind of regionally standing post together, so. But he was a little bit ahead of me, a year or two ahead of me. So I knew he was on CAT team, and by the time I got there, he was a team leader. He wasn't on my team. It's like. I don't know what it is now, but back then it was like a B, you know, squad A, B, C and D. So there was like eight teams, and there was two teams under A squad, so Alpha, Bravo, Charlie and Delta. And so I was on Charlie's squad, which was team five and six, and he was the tl. If I. Sorry, Derek. He'll correct me if I'm wrong. I think Derek was the team leader for team five.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And I was on team six, but we were under Charlie, you know, under that umbrella. So we could. Because some guys are on leave and some guys are on advance.

[A]

So you would.

[B]

You would mostly work with team five and six. Like, team one and two would work together in three and four. You know, I mean, like, occasionally I'd work with a teammate guy, but you don't get to know those guys as much because you're just. It's a different cycle. Like, they're on midnights and you're on training and you're on days, you know, so you kind of work with the same group. So it's, you know, it's not a big outfit. You know, 60 guys, 100 guys. I don't know what the number. It's not a real big division. But you'd work with the same 15 or 20 people all the time. And so I got to know Derek real well.

[A]

Yeah. So it was Cat. You had a career together.

[B]

Yeah, so to speak. Like I said, he was a little ahead of me. And then he, he, you know, he rotated out before I did because he had been there. You know what I mean? Yeah, I think he did five or six years over there.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then he left. I don't think he went back to the shift. I think he just stayed at Cat. And then he went. I guess he. I think when he left dc, I think he came back down here to Atlanta to the.

[A]

What is it called that make an office. I forget the name. Yes, but it's a smaller. Not a.

[B]

Like a resident office or domicile or something like that.

[A]

That's it. Yeah, Domicile. And then he finished up his career.

[B]

I've got a cool picture with Derek. I'll have to find it and send it to you. He had rotated off and he was back in a business suit, which we all hated. And so we came down and did an advance. We did a cat thing somewhere down here, I can't remember, probably Atlanta, who knows. And so we, we took a picture. We were all, you know, still in our stuff and. And then Derek was in his suit, but we let him sling up the rifle. He's standing the business suit with a rifle on, which looked really weird, but yeah, it was fun.

[A]

That's awesome. That's great. How many years did you do on Cat?

[B]

Three.

[A]

Okay, do three. Is that the normal.

[B]

No, it was kind of weird. So back before, like back before SOD was created, it was under Special Programs Branch, which was under ppd. Right. So it kind of got really. It sounds weird, but like, you know, a division is bigger than a unit. You know what I mean? And so it just grew. And so when you. When it was Special Programs Branch, under that branch, you had the Counter Sniper guys, you had the Emergency Response Team guys, the Uniform Division guys, you know, the K9, the Mags, all the specialty units. And then the Counter Assault team was the only, like agent element to that. Most of it was Uniform Division. And then they had the agent stuff. But that was like an 18 month assignment back then.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then of course, you can't really. In 18 months, you don't really. You're just now getting good at your job.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And so. But once it. Once it became Special Operations Division, it was like a three to five year commitment. So I went from doing 18 months to three years, which was Fine with me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And in hindsight, you know, I might have, you know, stayed a little bit longer, but, you know, three years was good. Some of my guys, like Derek did. I think he did five or six years. He did maybe seven. He did a long time.

[A]

He did even. Yeah.

[B]

And I think one of the things, I think the Secret Service gets wrong. Like the HRT guys, the, the hostage rescue team for the FBI, they're real squared away dudes too, you know, and they. If you listen, as long as you can do the pt, as long as you can do the shooting, you can stay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

5, 7, 10, 12. That's your skill set. Why in the world would you make a guy like, that's good at that. Go do a computer stuff I can barely email that he hates, he wants.

[A]

Nothing to do with.

[B]

Why are we doing this? We're going to make you well rounded. I'm like, no, you're.

[A]

You're like, right, I don't want to be well rounded.

[B]

I don't want to be well rounded. I'm one dimensional. Love it.

[A]

All right. At that point in your career, if somebody walked up to you and said, hey, I'm thinking about doing Secret Service, would you have said then or did you love just right there?

[B]

Like, for sure.

[A]

Eight or nine years at the that point? Eight or nine years.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Did you love it?

[B]

I did. I did try to walk away from the job a few times, which we haven't talked about. I. I don't know why. At that time, I felt like the Lord was calling me in a different direction. I. I literally tried to go to Chick Fil A. I wanted to own, I wanted to listen. I want to make money, man.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I was like, I'm going to go be an operator, owner, operator. Anybody knows about the Chick Fil A model, you can. You know what I'm talking about. It's owner, operator. They make. They are making money. And so that's where I really thought my next thing was going to be. It wasn't. It wasn't. But I tried twice with Chick Fil A. Swinging A. Miss. No problem. Well, okay, I'm where I'm supposed to be. So I did that around that time frame. I can't really remember. Like, you know, I'd probably say eight or nine years on the job. Ten years on the job. And then I tried to go to the CIA. I wanted to go to the agent because I had some exposure working with those guys when I was in London and of course, my trips to Afghanistan. And I really now now the, the G Watts really in full, you know what I mean? Global war on terror, you know, like full, full, full steam ahead. And I'm like, man, I've got this skill set. I'm not, you know, an 18 or 19 year old kid that can go through buds. I'm not gonna make that. And I'm too old anyway, so. And I don't want to be like, what? How can I do that without being in the army or the Navy?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, the CIA has paramilitary, you know, and I had worked with them, so that's where I kind of wanted to get to. Which, funny enough, I applied with them three times over the course of 10 years because when you're living overseas that you can't apply. So when I was living in London, yeah. And I worked with them on a daily, weekly basis. I'd go downstairs and read cables and threat cables and about protectees and whatnot. So I got to know some of the people there. And the station chief, there was a guy who'd been a station chief in Kabul. I remembered him from my Afghanistan time. And he had also used to run sad, which I don't know what they call it now, the Special Activities Division, which is like their high speed ground branch guys. If people know about that, it's like they pull from all the, like the Delta guys and the Dev group guys. It's the all stars of All Star. And I, and I didn't have the prerequisites that wasn't even the military, much less special force. So I knew that wasn't really an opportunity for me. But GRS was Global response staff. And so that's what I was trying to do. And I thought, well, maybe I'll weasel my way in. What? You know, I mean, you know, you know, that was my ultimate goal. And I didn't think that it would ever happen. But you, you don't know if you don't ask. It's already no, right. And so. And the GRS guys are squared away too. So I was like, that's where I'm going. And so three attempts, 10 years, two no's, one yes. I finally got an offer. They're like, yeah, we'll take you. I went through the whole process. It was like my fifth polygraph. I'd have a bunch of polygraphs. I went through the polygraph. The agency polygraph was no fun. Oh, it's worse than the service. By far.

[A]

It's worse.

[B]

I hate it, dude. I hated it.

[A]

Come on.

[B]

But you know, polygraphs suck. But I think I'VE done like five in my life. But anyway, got through it, got the offer, and then I got promoted. I'm like, lord, you have a sense of humor. Like, I got. I got promoted the day before the offer. Like, it lit.

[A]

You're kidding.

[B]

I got a FedEx package in the mail with the offer letter in it in 2016. I had just gotten. I had 19 years on the job with a service, and I had been trying to get promoted for a while, you know, and I got promoted finally. And the next day I got my offer letter from the agency and I had a lot.

[A]

What'd you get promoted to in the Secret Service?

[B]

GS14 on presidency. So. So Trump had just gotten elected in 2016, and I had gotten. I had put in for a spot that I just. I'm like, I'd been told no so many times. I had 87 no's, brother. I had been trying to get promoted for nine years and I every. It just didn't happen. So. Talk about thick skin. Like, I got it. And so I had been told no 87 times. I'm like, well, this is just gonna be another no. I'm going to bid on PPD New York because they're. Because they're standing up. Trump just got elected. His family lives in New York. They're going to pick New Yorkers.

[A]

Going to New York. Yeah.

[B]

And I got it. Al Story, my buddy got it. The guy that I told you, the Georgia guy that you should interview. Al got assigned to Don Jr. And I got assigned to Eric. I'm like, holy crap. I got promoted. I'm moving to New York. It was really weird on Eric Trump's detail, who, by the way, is awesome. But we'll talk about that later if you want to. But, like, that's why I turned the CIA down, because I'm like, I finally got a promotion. And it gets really nerd, nerdy talk with, like, the money stuff. Like, they're in a. They're not law enforcement, right? Agencies, not law enforcement. So the retirement program was there. I was going to take a pay cut, which I was okay with, but they had offered me like a 12, step five, and I had been like a 13. Like, I was making good money. I was going to take a big pay cut, but then I got another pay bump. We're talking massive. Like, I was going to have to go backwards, two major steps backwards. And I'm like, well, I can do that financially, because the danger pay and all the stuff, right? Financially, the money's not going to be much different.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The problem was the retirement. And I was going to, I was within five years of retirement and I was going to have to work 10. I'm like, I don't want to be doing this when I'm 50.

[A]

So it wouldn't translate over.

[B]

No. Because I was 45 years old and I'm like, I can retire at 50. Or if I go there, I got to work till I'm 55 and be in like war zone. I'm like, so a little old for that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I, it was hard, like ego wise. It was very hard to turn down. Wow.

[A]

What was, what was a crazy question on one of those polygraphs stand out? I can only imagine, man.

[B]

I don't, I don't know.

[A]

You said it's harder than Secret Service polygraph.

[B]

I think it was. I mean, they're both hard. Yeah, I mean like a lot. Some of it's just weird and mundane. Like the national security stuff.

[A]

Like, remember the animal stuff? That was just huge when I went through, like. No.

[B]

If it was bestiality type stuff. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

How long they spent so long on the.

[B]

I don't remember, man. I've had five or eight. I just, I don't really remember. But I mean, it's just like the life, the lifestyle questions are weird. And then, then like the, the espionage. I mean, listen, man, that, that was easy because it's like, no.

[A]

Did you ever walk out of one going, I aced it?

[B]

No, I don't think I ever felt that way. But I was always honest. I mean, you're not gonna pat, you're not gonna beat it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You just have to tell the truth and hope that what you tell them is okay.

[A]

But going in and see, when I went, when I did mine, I never spoke to anybody. I didn't know anybody on the job. I didn't speak to them about like, what was your experience with the polygraph? Yeah, so I didn't know what to expect. And then you go in, you get brutalized for four hours. I think mine was even over four and a half hours. And then you come out, you're like, okay, well I got to find a different career, cuz there's no chance. But then you hear, everybody has that experience.

[B]

Well, I think for sure, yeah. Well, I can remember my, my polygraph with the service, the guy, you know, listen, I'm 20 something years old. I don't, you know, it's a mind game, you know, and he's like, well, because I had been a cop, so he was really harping on like, integrity and like, testifying in court and have you ever lied? I'm like, I don't think I've lied in court. Like, I don't think I would do that. So. But like, he's like, well, there's something showing your integrity. I'm like, man, I. I mean, I've been a. Listen, I've been a police officer for two years. Most of my stuff is like, my biggest thing is dwi. It's like, it's. It's. These aren't crimes of the century. Like, I'm not gonna get on the stand and lie. Yeah, but then you start second guessing yourself, man, did I. Did I lie? And, like, they're showing some deception here. I'm like, right. I don't. You know, I think he was just trying to get me to confess to something I hadn't done, you know, that's it. And I was like, dude, I. I don't know what you're talking about. I've been a police officer in a small town for two years. I take stolen bicycle reports and I pull over cars for speeding and write dwi. Like, I'm not, you know, solving the world's crimes over here. So, I mean, I think it was just a test.

[A]

Yeah, that's what they do.

[B]

But I was, like, flustered.

[A]

Oh, it was brutal. I remember sweating. I mean, it was awful. Do you remember when you went through. Do you happen to remember what the drug policy was like?

[B]

I mean, it was. I feel like it was stricter then.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I've never done any drugs, by the way. I have, which most people I'll never forget. When I went to London, my boss was like. I don't know how he brought it up, but one day he said, if anybody ever says they've never smoked marijuana, I know they're a liar. So I'm like, well, I've never smoked marijuana. I've done plenty. Like, I've done plenty of other stupid crap, but I have a very addictive personality. So, like, I was scared I would like it, you know, and I would be. I knew I wanted to be Secret Service agent. I just thought you probably had a zero tolerance, you know, I didn't know. Like, that's why I never tried cocaine. Cause I was afraid I would like it. And it's super expensive and I didn't have any money, so I'm like, well, I can't afford cocaine and marijuana's probably something that will keep me from getting. So I just never did it.

[A]

Never did it.

[B]

But trust me, I've done a lot of other stupid crap, but that was just one thing I never did. Cause I just knew myself. And I just thought that the Secret Service, like, I guess I held him on a pedestal. That what? Like. Because people are human. People make mistakes, right? And so I think it was super strict back then. Like, now. I know now, like, they're still big on steroids. Like, we watched a guy out back in, when I was in the Wilmington office, who admitted it was, like, a SF guy, real good candidate, but he had. He had taken a cycle. But it's like, within the last six months. I'm like, dude, really? That's not.

[A]

I know.

[B]

It's not that big of a deal. What's sf, like, Special Forces for. For, like, Green Beret? Yeah. I'm like, dude, come on, man. Like, this guy's a great candidate. He did a whoop dee doo. But they're like, well, if it was six months from now, he can. I'm like, you got. Man. Some of these pilot. Whoever writes these policies. Like, to me, if you're doing cocaine or meth, you should probably, you know, be out or at least. Yeah, well, I did it 10 years ago or five years. Like, I think. I think a lot of it's got to do with the time. Like, you know, we asked this one guy, like, when's the last time you smoked weed? He said, on the way in here. And I'm like, this interview's over. Bye. Bye.

[A]

And he was serious.

[B]

Well, he was honest, appreciated. Like, he was like, I'm nervous, man. I'm like, you smoke weed on the way here? Yeah. I'm like, well, you're out.

[A]

Move from cat. You get the big announcement, the promotion. You're going to New York. You're not only going to New York, you're going to Eric Trump's detail.

[B]

Yeah. What's this all, like, so super scary.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm always very careful how I couch this, because I know there are as many people that love the Trump, there's as many that hate them. And so what I'm about to say has got nothing to do with Eric or the Trump family. It's got to do with the job itself, which I'm preaching to the choir with you. But Eric, it's like being in my humble opinion. And I know I'm biased because I did the job, but as. As a GS14, you're an ATSAC, right? You're like an entry assistant to the. You know, do you watch the office? Oh, assistant to the region assistant. I'm like, this is so goofy. It was true. So you have the Special Agent in Charge. You have the. In bigger offices. You have the dsac, which the deputy.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Okay. Bigger offices, bigger layers. Special Agent Charge. D Sack number two guy, or three. Two and three asac. Right. Stepping down a little bit. Assistant Special Agent Charge. And then you had the old AT sack, the assistant to the Special Agent Charge. Not to be confused with assistant to the Regional manager. So I'm like. When I watched the Office, I'm like, holy crap. That's really true. I lived it. So anyway, I love Dwight, by the way. He's my favorite character. But so I was the assistant to the Special Agent Charge, which is a little step down. So you're basically, you know, a frontline supervisor. And it is, man, you are balls to the wall. You are busy. You have so much computer work to do administratively because you're running the schedule. You're running all the manpower. You're doing all the stuff. You're operational. You're busy. Now a shift leader is in town. He or she's at the White House. And that. That is super hard. That is super hard because you're running a shift for potus, Right. You're working the man every day. But guess what? You have an ops center. You have all the assets, you have all the things, you have all the toys. I'm not diminishing that. That is hard. That is. That is. I would say that's the hardest job in the Secret Service. However, comma, so is being a small, small detail. Detail. So I was considered a detailed leader because I was. It was a small detail. Right, Right. I was up in New York away from all the assets.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

All the assets are deceits. Where the White House is.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I'm in New York City running a detail with temps. Like, I had no permanent people. I would have to email the ship. I need. I need. These are. These are the manpower requirements that I need.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And they would send me. And it's a two week rotation now. They couldn't always send me a guy for two weeks. Sometimes they would send me a guy for a week, or sometimes they'd send me a guy for two weeks. So my schedule, if I needed 26 guys. Yeah, sometimes. Or 26 assignments or something. Like, I might have 30 or 40 guys on my schedule because like, like you can. I can only send you Jeff for two a week. I can't send him to you for two weeks. And I didn't understand it at that time. I will eventually later understand it. When I'm running our surveillance unit, because two weeks is a big chunk of time to send to be down a body.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it used to make me mad. I was like, these jokers are just selfish. But I didn't realize, you know, until I actually had. Okay, I. I get it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But it made your life really hard because I. I was me. And I had an assistant detail leader. I had a couple ADL's, assistant detail leaders. And they would help me do stuff administratively and operationally because I'm the detail leader for Eric Trump. But then when Trump, President Trump, signs an executive order that lar spouses get protection too, because she's. She's not blood. Right. So.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Eric got protection, but then Laura, by executive order, got it. Well, how. I can't clone myself. How do I, if I'm with Eric in New York, how to go to D.C. with Laura? So you have to have a number two or number three. Right, right. And so those guys were temporary also. They're just rotating in. And then all your guys were temporary. I'm like, holy crap. It took me. I did that for 15 months. It took me that whole. Almost a year to get like. I built my detail up to about half. So they started bidding it out, and it was mostly New Yorkers that were like, leaving the field off, like, oh, it's time for a go. Protection. So they would come. Come over. So about half of my detail was permanent guys, which, which you wanted your own guys because they're your guys and they're buying in. But, like, some guys get sent to New York and they love it because they weren't. And then some guys were sent up there and they hate it. And so they're, you know, this is not always going to get somebody's best effort. Yeah, that didn't happen a lot.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But it does happen. Like, somebody's pissed off their way from home for two weeks and they're working midnights in New York. They're not happy. You got to deal with a bunch of drama. So it can be hard. And then especially your operational. So it was just. It was a. It was a very. It was the most challenging assignment I've ever had by far. Not even close. But it was also the most rewarding because I got to know my protectees really well, and I'm sure the service didn't like that. But there's a human element to this.

[A]

Sure there is.

[B]

And when you spend that many hours with a human being, you're either going to gravitate toward each Other, you're going to hate each other's guts. And Eric Trump is. Is one. And I've told him this to his face multiple times. He knows it. One of the nicest human beings I've ever met. And this is what I never could. And I'm not trying to go political here, but what I never could really wrap my head around, politics wise, is why people hate. I don't care if you like Trump or not. I really don't. But the apple doesn't fall far from the tree in any home. And if this guy's such a good dude, is his dad that bad? Now he's a loudmouth New Yorker billionaire. What did you think? We're not electing the Pope? Like, what did you think we were getting? Who care? Once upon a time, Hillary Clinton went to his wedding. He was the best thing since sliced bread. And then he put an R in front of his name. He's a villain. It's all fake. It's all fake. But anyway, aside from that, Eric is an amazing human being. Laura is, too. Can I tell a quick funny story about. So my head's spinning. I'm freaked out. I've been trying to get promoted for nine years. I'm like, it's just not going to happen. I'm not what the service is looking for. Bam. Here you go, dummy. And so, like, careful what you wish for. So I find myself in New York. I go up, I get acclimated and try to meet them and work with them for about a week. Then the week leading up to the inauguration, you come back to D.C. and there's a bunch of training because it's all choreographed and everything.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then, so January 20th happens, 2017, and we're doing our thing, we're in town for a couple nights, and then we fly back to New York. Now, because it's such a interesting dynamic. You know, you've got this president who is a billionaire from New York. He's now at the White House, but his wife is going back to New York with his younger son. Harry Barron was 10. I don't know how he was 10 years old or whatever. So he's going back to New York. So we flew on her airplane, not Air Force One, but the First Lady's aircraft. Right. So because Trump is now president.

[A]

President.

[B]

So. But his family's got to go back to New York because the party's over. So we go out to Andrews Air Force Base, and it is a freaking goat rope. And so there's kids everywhere, there's people Everywhere, there's cars everywhere. It's like, Al, I can't wait for you to introduce for me to introduce you to Al. And he was Don Jr. S guy and he's got so many better stories because it was like herding cats. He had five little kids running around. I had Eric and Ron. So it was totally different. It was wild. And so we get out to Andrew's and we take off and we're like, we're fine. It's not, you know, it's a short flight, what, 45. And so we're like decompressing for a minute. We're sitting beside it and we're like, yeah. I'm like, take our breath because it's getting ready to be on. As soon as we land, it's on again. And we're going in dark, like legitimately and figuratively because we're landing at LaGuardia at dark, going to west. He's going to the city. I'm going to Westchester. I've never seen their house up there. You know, I don't know where we're going. I'm trusting that the guys waiting on me know what they're doing because I don't know what we're doing. Yeah, it's not a good way to do business, by the way. So shame on the Secret Service for putting in trick back. But anyway, it is what it is. So we, we're on the airplane and Laura, she's not a protectee at this time because he's been in office a.

[A]

Day and he didn't make that.

[B]

He hadn't done it yet. But she's going to be. But she's not yet, right? So she's there and so she's like, hey, Scott, can I see at the back of the plane? I'm like, what have I done? What have I frickin said? I've been with him for four or five days. I'm like, I probably said something out of pocket. I mean, that's just what I do. Sorry. What you see is what you get. Like I don't really have a filter. And I'm like, oh boy.

[A]

Right?

[B]

So I go to the back of the plane and eric's tall, he's 6 5, you know, his big. He's kind of hunkered down at the back. He's tall. He's standing back at the plane and she's tall too. And we're back there and, and, and then my boss, Neil Haggerty comes back there. Oh, I said his name, sorry, Neil. Neil H. Neil Block that Neil. Neil works, comes back there, and I love that guy. Anyway, we go to the back of the plane. I'm like, oh, man. I'm getting ready to get. Get spanked.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And she goes, I just want to let you know that we're pregnant. I'm like, do what? And she's like, yeah, we're pregnant. And I was like, okay, first of all, I was like, they're not mad at me.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[B]

But then I'm like. Then my brain goes like, okay, I got one protecty. I'm getting ready to have two. I'm getting ready to have three. What the heck? This thing just tripled in size. And it's been 24 hours. I was, like, completely overwhelmed. But I'm trying to, like, oh, yeah, cool. There's no problem, right? I'm inside, I'm falling apart, going, what in the world is getting ready to happen to me? So that was crazy. And then we land at LaGuardia, and everything was there. Good. And the other funny thing I want to talk about that trip was when we land, of course I have a protectee with his wife.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Pretty easy. I get my little two or three car motorcade. We're off. I look over, my buddy Al is putting in car seats. Cause they're little kids, man. And there's like. There's these Secret Service agents. Some have machine guns and some have car seats. I'm like, we are in uncharted territory, brother. Because we. I had experienced this with the Bush girls and experienced this with the Obama girls, but they were high school. They were growing up a little bit. Right?

[A]

Right.

[B]

High school and college and then.

[A]

And they didn't have their own kids.

[B]

They didn't have babies. These are babies. Like, I think Chloe was like, three or four. And I'm like. I looked over at Al, I'm like, bro, what have we done? He goes, I don't know what we've gotten ourselves into, because, like, I'm from North Carolina, he's from Georgia.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You got these two Southern dudes living in, like, a couple of fish out of water. And he. I'm like, good luck, pal. And he's like, yeah, see you tomorrow maybe. Oh, it was crazy.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

It was wild.

[A]

Car seats.

[B]

And at the time, we were both, I think, look, legitimately freaking out.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, I was scared to death. But looking back on it, it's. It's some of the best memories. Some of the best is crazy.

[A]

So cool. All right, so New York, is. Is. Is Milani there?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay, so it's Melania, it's Eric, It's Don. Don Jr. Yep. Okay.

[B]

And Ivanka. Well, no Ivanka, if she's still there. But she's moving to Georgetown, so she's going to be in D.C. so she'll.

[A]

Be in D.C. yep. Does this take you to.

[B]

And Tiffany, too? There's also Tiffany, that was Marla Maple's daughter. That's right, the second wife.

[A]

But she's not on the plane with you guys?

[B]

No, because I think she was. I'm. I can't remember. I think she was already in law school at Georgetown. Yeah, I think.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay, So I don't think she. I can't remember. She might have been. I don't remember.

[A]

Yeah. So you're. You're new detail.

[B]

There's so much going on, man. Yeah, it was just wild.

[A]

You're going in. You're in New York.

[B]

I'm going to New York. There's all this stuff going on, but all I know is, like, you're my. Like, Eric's my guy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I'm worried about Eric and Laura and I'm worried about everybody else. There's just a lot of white noise.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I'm freaking out, but I'm trying to be composed, you know, I'm a Secret Service agent now. I'm a supervisor. You gotta act like you know what you're doing. You fake it till you make it, you know? I was like, what is happening to my. My life?

[A]

So we're phones. Big bad. Like, where were we at in the phone era? Was it text in was still those old pages?

[B]

No, this. This time I was iPhone. Where. IPhone stuff. Now. I did have a. So. So I had my iPhone, but Secret Service had like the Samsung, whatever it was.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I had two phones, of course, which is.

[A]

But you're texting. Like, we're texting.

[B]

Texting a lot. Email. But a lot of texting, which was good. Maybe.

[A]

Like, are you allowed?

[B]

Like, are you allowed? That's a. That's a funny word. Allowed. I. I don't know what we were allowed to. But I did. I mean, because he didn't really. Like, for example, put it this way. If you're. If I'm the special agent in charge of PPD and you're president whoever. I'm not talking about your schedule. You got two secretaries for that. You got the chief of staff. You have staff at the wazoo. That's where you get your information. Eric had an assistant, and I would get information from her. But then also, like, at night was like, what time are we, like, we leaving work? Like, are we going to dinner? Are you going home? Like, hey. He might just say on the way home, like, I want to stop at Restaurant X. So, like, it's just easier for him to go direct to me. Then why tell Kim to tell me?

[A]

Makes sense.

[B]

Hey, we're. Hey, tomorrow. Like, he might say, hey, tomorrow, Saturday. So on the weekends they would go to Westchester because they had a house in Westchester, which I loved it up there, man. I love getting out of the city. He's like, hey, he might text me, we're gonna go to. We're gonna go shooting tomorrow at nine o' clock in the morning.

[A]

Nice.

[B]

Because there was a He. He's a. They're very, they're good shooters. Yeah, Very good marksman. And Don does a lot of hunting, but they both, they're very good with shotguns and all kinds of guns. Like, they like to go shooting clays and all the, like, skeet and all. So they had a range up there. He's like, hey, we're going to go to. And I don't want to say the name of the range because you could Google it. But like, hey, we're going to go to our place.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so it was just easier for him to communicate that with me.

[A]

That's cool.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Did they do well? Actually you had him and his wife, right?

[B]

Yeah. And then Lar became executive order. And so then. Yeah, yeah. So it was Eric and Laura and then that was in January. And then Luke, baby Luke wasn't born until September. And he was born on September 12th.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And she kept saying, oh, my gosh, I hope this kid didn't born on September 11th. And I was like, I hope he is. And she's like, heck no. I'm like, no, that's a double barrel, middle finger to the bad guys. No, any day. But so anyway, he did come. You want to hear about that?

[A]

Please.

[B]

This is a little. This a little dicey. I'll keep it very clean. But.

[A]

So tell me, you delivered a baby.

[B]

No. God, no. Thank you, Jesus. I didn't do that, but so I have an apartment in Manhattan. Okay. So Eric did his thing for the day and then he was on this board at this range. He was on this board and they had monthly meetings. I'm like, hey. And at this point, I have a very good relationship with him. I talk to him. Like we're talking. He just down to earth and he'd bust my chops and I'd bust it. I mean, I think honestly, whether you're politician or a movie star or these people, I think they really like it when people just treat him like normal. Yeah, I never kissed his butt. And I never. I just. That's not my DNA, autographs and, dude, I don't want anything from you. I'm your guy. I think they really appreciate just because they can tell when you're faking it. And I would talk to him, not rough, but like, I don't think people that are worth $200 million or whatever are used to hearing no a whole lot. And so there were things I would. And he was always very respectful. He would say, can I do this? Can I do that? I was like, man, first of all, it feels weird for another grown man to ask me if he can drive himself to cvs.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm like, yeah. So I would do things I didn't really feel comfortable doing because he was just a cool guy. You know what I mean? Which is kind of off the subject, but just a really cool guy. But I would tell him no on some stuff. Like, we can't do that. And as long as I could articulate why he was good with it. But you can't say no without a reason. You gotta be able to articulate it, which is fair, you know? So he had to go to this meeting. He didn't have to go. He was on the board at this. This. I'm like, hey, big man. That's why I caught him a lot, because he's tall, right? I would call big man. I said, hey, big man. Yeah, you think you should go to this meeting tonight? You know, your wife's due any. He goes, ah, it's fine. And I'm like, brother, you should go to this meeting.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Murphy is going to get us. He's like, I'm good. I'm going to the meeting. Okay, bro. So, like, I had worked him all day, right? So my shift was over.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I'm on my couch trying to decompress. I never had much downtime, but I'm like, you know what? I'm gonna. I'm just gonna lay. I was watching the Sopranos. I'll never forget. I was laying on my couch in my apartment watching the Sopranos. And my deep. My adl, my number two guy had him up at. Up in Westchester, about an hour away. My phone rings and it's my buddy Mike who's working Laura. Yeah, cool. The cucumber. And I'm like, what's up, Mike? He's like, hey, Scott, I'm with Laura. Which I knew he said. And he threw so much at me so fast, I couldn't process it. Like, he. Because he was so cool. He wasn't. He wasn't ruffled or anything. That's why I had him working, because I knew he could handle it.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Because I can't be everywhere. And he said, hey, Scott, I'm with Laura. Her water just broke. Where at? I made her go into the bathroom at Panera and check, make sure. I'm like, wait. And I sat like, what? I immediately sat up off the cap. I'm like, what did you just say? He said, yeah, her water just broke. She thinks her water just broke, but I told her to go into the bathroom. We're at. I think he said, panera. Some restaurant.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And. And I'm. We're at the corner of 5th and 60th or whatever. I was like, okay. And then I could hear her. She's like, yep, it broke. And I was like, okay, what are you. What's the. What are y' all doing? He goes, well, we're gonna go back to the apartment. She's gonna take a shower, change. I'm like, what? They're just so cool under pressure. And I'm like, okay, I guess I'll be over there in a minute. So I, of course, drop what I'm doing. I get it dressed as fast as I can, get over there. And then, of course, we have to get Eric back from up north. Then we go to the hospital. So that was my Baby Trump story. I'll never forget. Mike called me and said that I couldn't process what he was saying about the bathroom. You know what I mean? It was like Laura's water broke, right? But I told her to go into the bathroom to make sure. And we're at Potbelly's or whatever. He said, I'm like, what? You're telling me too much, dude. Where are you?

[A]

Right? That's awesome.

[B]

It was great. Mike's the best. And he ended up leaving the job, and he got a big job in the private sector. So, Mike, if you ever watch this, I love you, buddy. Cuz he was. He was as cool as a cucumber. And then. And then, of course, when Eric got back, I'm like, I told you, you big dummy, not to go up there.

[A]

And sure enough, Murphy got you. So you get him back that you get to the birth.

[B]

We get to the birth. We go to the hospital. Of course, that's 911. This is all going down on 9 11. And so she goes through the night, and she didn't have the baby. You know, of course, it takes a while to have babies most of the time, so. Especially the first one.

[A]

Especially the first one.

[B]

And so it was the. I'll never forget. That was cool, man. I was. I was. And I. You know, I don't want to tell stories that aren't mine to tell, but I was part of it. You know, I'm not trying to embarrass anybody, but, like, you know, I've watched three babies come into the world. You have four of your own, Right. So it's like, I wasn't in the room, and I didn't want to be in the room, but I was in close enough proximity where you can hear what's going on.

[A]

Oh, you know it.

[B]

And I'm like, bless up. And I was like, oh. And so I'll never forget, you know, and she's a very tough woman, by the way. Lara Trump is as fit as a woman as I've ever met.

[A]

This.

[B]

She was doing, like, Soul Cycle and all that stuff. Flywheel and all that stuff. Even up to, like, nine months. Like, she's extremely fit.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I can remember her coming out the next morning with the baby. She's getting wheeled down the hall. She's like, sorry, y' all had to hear all that screaming. I'm like, oh, I've been there, sister. It's good. And then she's like, scott, that's the hardest thing I've ever done. I'm like, yeah, that's what I hear. Because, like, she's, like, extremely. Like, when she works out, she pushes herself. She's not in there. Like, she's almost like a CrossFit person. Like, she's really getting after it. You know what I mean? She's like, that's the hardest thing I've ever done. I'm like, yeah, I've seen it a couple of times. It looks bad. This is great.

[A]

This is so cool. I love so much behind the scenes. Like, back to the opening where I said, the careers are so different. Derek had an incredible, cool, wild, neat career. Nothing to do with being in a hospital to. To have a protecty. Having a child.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, this is wild.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

All right, cool. So that was good. So we have Luke. Luke comes into the world. You're still on this detail. Are things starting to work out a little bit? Are you starting to, like, get.

[B]

Yeah, I feel like I'm starting to get my sea legs. You know, it's like this thing started in January and it's now September. I'm really starting to hit my groove. I've got a. You know, I'm not 100% staff, but like, I've got, I'd say about 50% of my man. Like these. I need to say I'm just gonna make up a number. Cause I don't remember, but I think let's say I need 15 guys or 16 guys.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I had like eight or nine that were full time dedicated to me. So the scheduling and all the admin stuff has slowed. Like, it's like I was drinking from a fire hose for a while. For, I'd say the first two months, two or three months, I was like, I don't think I can do this for like, I. Like there's going to be a burnt. Like, I'm not going. I'm not going to have that before, bro. I'm not going to make it. 18 months up here is what I can remember. I'm going to kill myself. Not really, but, you know, it's like. It's crazy, but it slowed way down. I could feel like it's coming back to normal because I was up here for so long. And it was like. And so I had some help. A good friend of mine came up. I recruited a guy. I told my boss, I said, I need. Can. I need a guy that I can trust. Does it have to be a guy on PPD right now? He goes, no, it can be anybody. I said, well, I want this guy who's in the Washington field office. Our wives are best friends. He's extremely competent. So I recruited him and I called him, I said, his name is Richie. Yeah, And I've interviewed him on my podcast too. And I said, would you be. Would you be interested in coming to New York and helping me? And he said, yeah. So thank God for Richie. So Richie came up and he took over the lion's share. The admin stuff. He was still operational too. But it was nice to have a guy that could do all this stuff while you're doing other stuff, you know, Because I had to be on every trip. I took 134I took out of town. And I'm talking about New York stuff. Anything outside of New York. I did 134 trips on an airplane in 15 months. Oh, my gosh, brother. I was balls to the wall. It was owned. It was owned.

[A]

All with.

[B]

And that's Scotland, Ireland, D.C. cali. I mean, all their places. Dubai. We were gone, man.

[A]

Oh, my goodness.

[B]

We were in the wind.

[A]

Because they're in the golf. The golf course.

[B]

At that time they owned 18 golf courses. We'd be in Miami today and New York tomorrow and back to California. I mean, dude, we're all over the place.

[A]

Do a favorite.

[B]

Oh yeah. My favorite hands down. And I told him because. Because they really like. Scotland's awesome too. Like they have a couple properties like Turnberry I think is probably one of their favorites. My personal favorite just from like looking at it from the cheap seats is Dunebeg. Dunebeg is in Ireland and I just liked because I had spent three years and three and a half years in London.

[A]

In London.

[B]

And I like that pubby feel, the dark, the leather and it was just like a little small cat. It was awesome.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Dune bag is my favorite.

[A]

Did they have something over there?

[B]

Yeah, that. That's what they have. They have Trump Dune bag.

[A]

Trump Dune Bag.

[B]

It's called Dune Bag. And of course Turnberry is awesome.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I can't. There's a couple over there in, in Scotland that are cool.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Drawing a blank on the names but you know, they have got Doral down in Miami. Doral is one of their nicest properties. But like I'm not a Miami guy. Like it's hot as crap, dude. It's nice. But like I'm not much of a Florida guy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, but they have some nice courses down in Florida. They have everywhere.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They have like 18. I can't, I can't remember them all.

[A]

What some of their like their schedules and stuff. Like, especially when they're traveling that much. Any what stands out? What are they doing and like what they working. How are they working out? How are they? How's life?

[B]

Yeah, I mean they're. I will say this highly motivated individuals type A.

[A]

Both.

[B]

Oh yeah.

[A]

Okay. Him and Marvin.

[B]

Oh. I think most people like Dana White for whoever, Joe Rogan. These are self starters. They don't need like, they don't need external motivation. You know, like football coach pumping you up. You don't need that. Like I'm in it to win it, bro. And I think that's why these people are so successful because they work hard and they have a tremendous amount of integrity too. They're not pulling the wool over people. You know what I mean? They're hard workers. They have ethics and they're grinders, man. They're just grinders.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I think that's what sets them apart.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Unlike somebody like and I'll use a reply. I don't, you know, I'm not gonna pick on like Nancy Pelosi or who? You know, because I thought insider trading, bull crap that they put Martha Stewart in jail for. They all do it. Both sides, I think. Right. I think Republicans and Democrats do all that stuff. But like, let's say somebody like, you know, Joe Biden, who is a career politician, some, someone like Mitch McConnell, like, yeah, you've got money, but it's because you've been a politician your whole life and you've made inroads. Right. It's networking and there's nothing wrong. I'm not saying that's illegal, but I'm just saying, like, these people are hard workers and they grind and attention to, detail oriented. You know, I can't speak so much for Don because I wasn't, I wasn't with Don very much. But like, Eric, you know, we'll fly, we'll take a red eye from New York to Scotland. And now he gets to sleep. And I didn't. So he's like, I love that guy. He said he just, he never quite got it, though. He's like, here's, here's the trick, Scott. Here's what we got to do. So as soon as we get on the plane. Here's the other thing too, by the way. Sometimes we would fly on the private aircraft, which was awesome. But then sometimes we would fly commercial.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And they always flew coach, bro. They're not, brother. They are. They are fiscally responsible. And I'm telling you, I was like, dude, are you sure we don't want to fly business? Or he's like, no, we're flying coach. Okay. So there would be occasions we would get bumped up or something, but a lot of times they're trying to find just like us, man. They're just, they're being fiscally responsible and they are flying. Oh, it's awesome. I really, I did respect that about them.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because they were not like, I mean, his dad's got a nice airplane, but he didn't always use it. You know what I mean?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so anyway, we'd fly and he'd say, here's the trick, Scott. He's like, well, we get on the plane, you, you know, you got to go to sleep before we take off. And I'm like, eric, I can't. I'm protecting you. Ding dong. Like, can you imagine me, me and me. And I got my head on Eric Trump's shoulder with drool coming on YouTube, like, I'm going to get fired, dummy. Like, I don't get to sleep on the plane. So he would go to sleep. And then that joker. I think he's got narcolepsy or something. He could follow or. Narcolepsy. When you can't go.

[A]

No, when you.

[B]

Oh, that joker. So they're just. He'd be asleep on the plane and I'm sitting there going, wow, this is awesome. And so, like, we'd fly all night.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And we hit the ground at like 7 in the morning. And we'd be off and running. And he's going. I'm, like, trying to stay awake.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Can I get a coffee? But no, he would, like, he would go to his property and he would, you know, we would go get. Generally go get breakfast or something. Independent situation. If I had someone, like, I could. I would go take a nap and come back. You know what I mean? Like, I didn't have to grind the whole day. Sometimes it depended. Like, we'd go in and he would get with the GM and we would go. And he would do the hotel stuff and then we'd go to the golf course stuff. But he's all business.

[A]

All business.

[B]

No, he's not messing around. He's. He's very nice to people. Very firm but fair. Right. Very professional. But he. In my. In my estimation, he was running the company. You get what I'm saying? Like, I'm not trying to, like.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

No disrespect to the like. But he was. To me. He's. I know he's the little brother, but I think he's running.

[A]

He's running the company.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So cool how you like you. You heard all the calls and just to be there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And to be in it.

[B]

Oh, I've heard some interesting things, that's for sure.

[A]

Any that you can possibly share. Any phone call. It could have been good news, it could. Could have been bad news. Any. Anything standing up.

[B]

I will tell you one that really kind of hurt my feelings for him. He did a lot fundraising for St. Jude Children's Hospital.

[A]

Yeah. I love St. Jude.

[B]

Yeah. I think they have a wing named after him. Like, Eric raised about $20 million. This is before dad was dad, you know? And I'll never forget, I felt so bad for the guy. We were in a car. Of course, I'm riding right front seat. He's back. You hear. You're not eavesdropping, but you can't hear. The guy's right behind you.

[A]

Can't unhear.

[B]

You can't not hear spirit. And so he's on the phone with I don't know who from St. Jude. And it was the first time that I'd ever really heard him get animated. Like, like, ups, like, he, I think it hurt his feelings and he didn't, this is my opinion. Right. Like, I think his feelings were hurt. And he's like, he said, I can't. Like, they were basically trying to cut ties because of the name, because it's so, you know what I mean? Quit being a coward.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Quit being a coward because of Trump. Like, because Trump was so, you know, polar, Polarizing. And so I don't know the nuance of it. I just remember that he was like, are you guys kidding me? Like, I raised all this money for. Because he's a good person and he raised money for children.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then you want to, like, take the Trump name. I, I don't know how all that shook out, but I, I, I can remember. And we were actually, it was really weird, too, because we were on a way, we were on the way to Connecticut to Apart. Like, sometimes, like, I learned a lot about the business world. Like, I, not a lot, but I kind of see glimpses into, like, if your name's on that building, that doesn't mean you necessarily own that building. Maybe you paid to have your name on it. You know what I mean? Like, all these Trump things, maybe they just paid to have their name on it. They don't necessarily own the building. And so we were going to, like, I think it was an apartment building or something in Connecticut, and he was going up there to do damage control because they wanted to break tie. You know, it was like, so a year ago when this guy was just a billionaire. You were good with him.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But now, because he's a Republican, you're not. You're full of crap.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know what I mean? It's very, it's very political. You know what I mean? And so I felt bad for him because he was trying to salvage some of this business stuff.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then he's on the phone with this guy from. I was like, man, these guys, you know, you know, people show their true colors very quickly.

[A]

That's tough.

[B]

You know, like the court of public opinion.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Can really make, you know, like, getting canceled and all that stuff, which I don't care about. Some people do.

[A]

So how many, how many years. You're in the gut. You're in this service now. How many years?

[B]

Like, 19. Coming up on 20.

[A]

Okay. And then you, so you do, so.

[B]

I'm 45 years old. Like, I'm, I'm long and, like, I'm good at my job. You know, I'm long in the tooth. I feel like I'm hitting my stride pretty good.

[A]

Happens. You. You finish out with Eric or do you get moved?

[B]

Yeah, and this is a long story. I won't do a diatribe on it. Like when I got sent up there, when Al and I got selected for that, it was an 18 month long term TDY. So he left his family in Alabama, I left my family in Virginia, and we went up there on a long term temporary duty assignment, which means Uncle Sam was gonna pay for our apartment. We were getting per diem and all the stuff. Right. Sounds good on paper, but in reality, it wasn't that good because it's just expensive up there. And I had two kids in college at the time and, you know, and the government, as you know, will the progress turn slowly. And so some of my vouchers weren't getting paid. I got to one point where I had $20,000 in vouchers outstanding. They wouldn't pay me. And so I was raising a little hell because I was like, I need to get paid. Like, I. You work to make money, you don't work to spend money. Like, you sent me up here. Pay me.

[A]

Right?

[B]

So Al and I got to the point, we both got to the point where we had to take loans against our TSP. I had 20 years on the job. I've been saving my money, you know, for my whole career in like my 401k or whatever. And I had to take a loan out just to survive. And I was not happy. Yeah, I mean, you do what you have to do, right? And so I just was trying to, like, say, guys, could you just please pay me? And I think because I got vocal about it one time too many, they're like, okay, you're done. And I was pissed because I was really. The hard part was over. Yeah, I had gotten it stood up. Like, I had no admin help. I was responsible for all the cars, all the weapons, all that. Anything you can think of, I was responsible for. I did all the surveys, I did all the paperwork. I did all this. I really busted my butt to get it off the ground. And then they pulled. Pull the carpet out from under me. I felt like. So I did 15 months. I was supposed to do 18. I'm like, I'm good now, guys. And they're like, nope, you're coming back. I'm like, you mother effers. Yeah, but so anyway, when your boss's boss calls, it is what it is, you know? And my boss, Neil, he Had a lot of juice, you know, you remember that term, juice? You know, he had a lot of juice, but he couldn't. And he was trying to protect me, but he couldn't. They're like, you're coming back. I'm like, God bless. So, okay, I'm coming back, which is good because I want to go home. You know, I missed home.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

But I went back. When I went back, that was April of 18. So I went from January of 17 to April of 18 up there. And it was hard, but I loved it. And then I went back and I ran our surveillance unit because I had done CSU counter surveillance stuff. Secret Service love to say counter. Right. It's not just snipers, it's counter snipers, you know, or assault team. No, it's the counter. Because you're countering something. Right. So I went back and ran our counter surveillance unit under PPD's umbrella.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because now there's a CSD, there's a division that does the whole national capital region, and there's a BP team and there's a PPD team. So I went back and ran the PPD team for a year, and that was. I enjoyed it because I had done it for four and a half years. I was pretty good at that, too. And I had done that for a long time, and I felt like I was pretty good at that. But I did miss. I missed my boys, you know, because you. Your team. I built up my team. And then I missed Eric and Laura, of course. And you know, it is what it is. Everything has to come to an end. But I felt like my time was cut a little short. Yeah, but it's fine. I did it for a year and I enjoyed that because I was able to get back into my coaching of high school football and stuff, you know, I was able to get back into getting back into that rhythm of doing that stuff I enjoyed. And then after that, they put me in the jock, which is the joint operation center. Brother, that place took years off my life. So I normally, when you get promoted to go to the detail, that's where they put the baby, you know, your brand new supervisor. They put you in the jock, and that's where you kind of cut your teeth. And because you're seeing everything, you're running the complex, you know what I mean? You and the lieutenant, you're running. You're the two guys running the whole thing. And there's a watch commander who's a captain, but they're kind of. They let you do your thing, you know, What I mean, and so you and the lieutenant run the jock. Well, because I had started in New York, I. They put me in there on the back end, and I was like, I don't really want to do. Like, I don't want to do this. No one wants to do it. Somebody's got to do it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And, you know, you're running the complex, and it's good in one way, because when you leave, like, when I was running Eric's detail, I was never really off. Like, you. You worked your shift, but then you go back to your computer and you type for two or three hours. And I was eating one or two meals a day. I was getting one or two workouts. And, like, I lost a bunch of weight because I just. I wasn't able to do anything but work. So you were never really off. And your phone. You didn't sleep good because you're worried about your phone.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Hey, I'm at the hospital with my water breaking or whatever. You never really could relax. That was the good thing about the jock was you're managing zero people. You're running the show when you're there, but at the end of the day, you're like, you're out. I survived. My phone's not going to go off because I don't have any people. The problem is that eight hours when you're in there, you are on the hot seat because you're running.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

Everything for the White House complex. And it's extremely stressful.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I hated it. But I will say. I will say, as much as I hate, I hate it. I never liked it. I never liked what I didn't like anything about it. And I'm being very honest. I didn't like one thing about it, but I know it made me better.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because you see everything.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you're responsible for everything.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So now look back and go. I'm kind of like, can say, I did it. Which nobody. If you haven't done it, you're like, what? So. But, like, it makes me. It was a major accomplishment, you know? And I know it made me better at understanding everything.

[A]

Yeah. Any. What would you say surprising up there? Because I actually did it for a little period of time. I got hurt, and they put me.

[B]

Up there for what surprised me.

[A]

I did anything. Surprise.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think what surprises me surprised me is twofold. And I definitely got to be careful about this topic because it's the jock. You know what I mean? The drone activity in D.C. is surprising years.

[A]

Were you there.

[B]

18 and 19.

[A]

Okay, so this is a little bit later. Got it. I'm a.

[B]

The drone active. The drone activity.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Is a little. I was like, wow. Really? Okay. That. From an operational standpoint, that was a big problem for us. You know? I mean, people are just people.

[A]

You're talking.

[B]

I'm talking about. Yeah.

[A]

Punching a drone off the street.

[B]

Yeah. And it could be somebody innocent not knowing what they're doing. It could be. It could be nefarious. You don't know. So you have to treat it all. Absolutely. So that was a pain in the butt. The thing which is part of the job. Right. But the part that really was the most, I think, discouraging for me was somebody's got to do that job. I didn't ask to go in there, but you told me I'm going in there. So if you're going to put me in there, then you have to trust my judgment. Right. Because I don't want to be in there any more than the next guy pushing me. No one wants to be in there, but somebody has to do a hard job. And if you're going to put me in there to make a decision, don't armchair quarterback every freaking thing I do.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Because otherwise you come in here and if you think you can do it better, yeah, by God, come do it. Because I don't want to be in here anyway. I'd rather be at home at football practice, you know? But you put me in here to make some decisions. I'm making hard decisions very quickly. And then, man, like, you're working the problem and your phone's ringing. Tell me what. We're 10 seconds in. I can't. I got to go. And then you, like, you're hanging up on yeah, bosses, and you're kind of talking sternly or rudely to people that you don't want to talk to that way. Because it's a fine line between being respectful and trying to do your job, you know? I mean, when you're in a trick bag and I'm like, I'm trying to work the problem. I can't work the problem and debrief it. I will debrief it, but I'm working it right now. And it was constant, man. So just the phone ringing, wanting. I'm like, brother, do you think I'm not going to tell you? Of course I'm gonna tell you. I gotta get through it first. Right? Just the armchair quarterbacking was very. That was just. It's not a surprise. It was just disheartening.

[A]

So it's like air traffic control. Yeah. For the. So you. You were the number one in charge?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

I just worked. I remember working one of the screens outside. I remember listening to some of the calls.

[B]

Yeah. It's crazy. Well, the loot. So you. So at the. You sit at the back. You sit at the back of the room. It's really weird how the service does things. So as a GS14, you're the pay grade equivalent of a captain. So, like, a captain. So the captain's the watch commander, but he or she's got an office. They're doing. I don't know what they're doing, but they're not in the room.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Your pay grade is the equivalent of a captain.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But you're sitting at a desk next to a lieutenant. So the whole room thinks that you and the lieutenant and probably the lieutenant probably thinks that y' all are equals. And it sounds really pompous. Like, I'm. I hope I'm doing this justice because I've never been big on titles, but there's a chain of command for a reason.

[A]

There is.

[B]

So you're sitting back there with lieutenant, and everybody in the room thinks you guys are equals, but you're really equivalent to the captain who's not in the room. So you really have the ultimate authority. But the whole room, as you know, is ud. There's a couple of agents in there, but it's mostly ud. It's a UD run program.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So. And you don't want to big league the guy. You don't want to, like, I'm in charge. You're both. You're both in charge. You're both in charge. But ultimately it's going to fall on you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They're going to come to you, you know, and so it got. It got a little dicey because sometimes the lieutenant would want to do something. I was like, whoa. And I can't really talk about it because of the countermeasures and stuff that we would use.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then the guy, they were all ready to. To use their toys now. Like, guys, slow down.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Once we do this, if we can't undo it, let's slow down. So, you know, I think that helped me because I was older, I was in my late 40s, and some of these guys were 30, you know, younger guys. Right. And they're itchy. Ready. I'm like, whoa, whoa. Tap the brakes, Tap the brakes. Once we do it, if we do decide, we have to collectively decide to do this. One time, I had a lieutenant He's a nice guy. Super nice guy. He made a decision without conferring, consulting with me. I'm like, bro, you can't do that. Like, I'm not going to make a decision without talking to you first. You got it? You can't do that either. You can't cut my legs off because then the guys aren't going to respect me, and I wouldn't do that to you. And he was, he was, he was cool about it. And he, he didn't do it on. He didn't do it maliciously. It's just like he got caught up. And, and he made. I'm like, brother, we, we. We have to listen, we have to talk. Either we're. We're going to. Maybe we agree to disagree, but in this setting, we're either going to go with A and we're going to do whatever, or we're going to go with B. We're not going to do it. Yeah, but it can be a house divided.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And he got it. Yeah, but it was tough, man.

[A]

Any close calls ever with Reagan being close by?

[B]

Well, we're going back in time a little bit. Not. Not when I was in the jock, thank God. But like, one night when I was working Bush 43 as a shift. A young shift agent, I hadn't even gone to Cat yet because of 9 11. They have new procedures in place, right. With the aircraft, and they can track time and distance and the speed. That's like you have seven minutes or you have 10, whatever, you know what I mean? And they have different color codes. Like, condition green is normal, then condition yellow and orange and red. You know, it escalates, right? So they basically took all the guesswork. So it's like, here's a chart, and if we meet these parameters and the jock at. Which is what I would do years later, he and the lieutenant are looking at this chart and they're like, okay, okay, well, we're going. Because you don't necessarily have to go from green to yellow. You could go from green to red. Like, you might just jump all the way up, right? So they took the guesswork out of it because some of it was subjective. So they made it very objective. It's like, okay, oh, crap, we got an inbound and he's not talking. Got to go. You know what I mean? So one night I was working and they. We did an evac on. Well, we started to do an evac with Bush, and I happened to be standing on the post upstairs outside the residence, and I here's the thing, when it comes across the radio.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like you're not thinking. You're just like. You're doing like Condition Red or whatever it was going. We're, oh, oh, crap, I gotta bust into the private residence. But what you do is. So you take your key out and I put it in the door. You know what. And the shift leader came up. And then, you know, I wouldn't have gone without him. That was the protocol. You wait on the boss. And so I had everything. Like, I had the door ready and he went in and got him and said, they're eating dinner. He said, we got to go. Got an inbound aircraft. And this was cool, man. This is what I liked about Bush too, man. He's like, where's Barney? Where's Barney? He's worried about his dog. Where's Barney? And where's. Where's Maria? Then the Barney part was funny because of the Maria, the housekeeper. And he brought her with him from Texas when he was governor. And he was not leaving.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Without her. I thought, man, that's. That's the stuff that no one seas.

[A]

Incredible. Yeah.

[B]

He's still. He might be a little off on some stuff, but he's got a good heart.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And he was not leaving without housekeeper. So I thought that was cool.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That was at night.

[B]

So that was at dinner time. It was in the summertime, so it wasn't dark out, but it was like six or seven o' clock at night. They were eating.

[A]

Did it resolve? Was it just an accident?

[B]

Well, then we start doing our thing, you know, which I can't talk about. And then, then I guess the airliner, it was a big aircraft. It was a commercial aircraft, and it wasn't squawking or whatever.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And then they finally started talking and they're like, okay, false alarm, you know, but we went through quite a few of the procedures. Like we were. We were leaving.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Frightening.

[B]

It was a little wild.

[A]

And what year was that?

[B]

That was probably like, oh, four.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

So we're like three years out. Like, it's very fresh. You got a freaking.

[A]

It's still tender.

[B]

Triple seven coming in. You're leaving, bro.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You're leaving.

[A]

All right. What can you tell us about CSU?

[B]

CSU? Do you want to get into July 13th now?

[A]

That's your department now. So you're in CSU. You leave New York, you come.

[B]

So I leave New York. Yeah.

[A]

Back in your csu.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

What is it?

[B]

So counter surveillance unit is like the plain clothes guys. I always Enjoy that because you could. You know, secret trips has very high standard for grooming. Like, that's when you could let your hair grow out. I don't have any much anymore, but I grow a pretty good beard, so I could grow a beard. I always tried to pull off like the construction worker look because DC is always under construction.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So put on a car heart and grow your beard out. And you just, you look like you're working on something on the road construction guy or something. So that was always kind of cool. I enjoyed that. And then in the summertime, you know, it's hot as it can get hot. Dc, like, you could wear shorts and, you know, we're short.

[A]

Ultimately, what are you doing? Are you around the White House?

[B]

Yeah. So you're basically for the Counter Surveillance Division. You're running the ncr, the National Capital Region. So you're doing in town what they call in town. You remember the. In towns, like you got advances out of town and then. And in town. So in town you're the National Mall, the air Reagan National. The train stations, the parks, the, the. The White House, the VPR that, you know, the nav ops up in Naval Observatory. So you're, you're just embassies. All the embassies up there, foreign missions. Branch, you know, foreign missions. Branch runs the patrol units. So you're just kind of. You're out there in plain clothes. You're just another element. You're just another set of eyes and ears that, that no one, you know, people probably know it exists. But like, you, you know, you don't stick out. You know what I mean? You're just blending in.

[A]

Yeah. So you got specific.

[B]

And like, it would spend like. I spent a lot of time at Lafayette park, you know, which is right across from White House in the church over there with the President's little yellow.

[A]

Church, the little stand, a little protest that's been there forever, since the 70s.

[B]

So you just walk up and down. Like you just spend a lot of time, you know, saturating that area. Just walk around.

[A]

Yeah. A lot of. Uncover anything like huge that you can talk about?

[B]

No, I don't think. I don't think.

[A]

Or it's not even about that uncovering something or is it.

[B]

I think that we, you know, the problem with CSU is it's so intangible. You know, it's like, yeah, maybe I stopped something and I didn't know us. Like how. How many things did we stop? Because I saw something that didn't look right and I had a UD Guy on the Trek bike. Go talk to him. Or we did the dog thing, you know, like, how many things. Like, can I say no on this day, we stopped this attack? I can't tell you that. But I can't help but believe, day in and day out, day in and day out, year after year, that we didn't thwart some stuff because of being proactive. And then maybe something didn't come to fruition. Or maybe. Maybe a guy saw. It's like. That might be an undercover guy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, it's hard to say.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because you don't always blend in as good as you think you do anyway.

[A]

Yeah. Well, there's actually a story that comes to mind because I was there at the time. It sounds like around the same. The time frame that you're talking about. And there was a vendor out in the street with one of those trucks, and it appeared to be selling watches, but they were confirmed. A spy from another company. Country.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it was. I know the story because it was my roommate at the time. Who you may have worked with. I won't say his name. I'll tell you after the episode, but you guys may have worked together on it. And then he found himself getting a cash and metal award in the basement of one of the huge agencies in D.C. because it's a giant name. So there's an example that could have been something you guys worked on.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's incredible. All right. How long do you do once you csu?

[B]

So as a worker bee, I did four and a half years.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And then when I got. When I left New York, it came back, and I ran the unit for the White House for a year.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So five and a half total years.

[A]

Five and a half total. Two.

[B]

Two different kind of assignments.

[A]

Are we staring at retirement now with two years?

[B]

So now I'm at. No, because that's 2019. So I've 2019. So I probably got three years left to go. Three or maybe three. What do you think seen in those three years? So I thought, okay, my time is coming up. I'm tired of dc. I've been there, you know, a long time, man. You know, I bounced, you know, to New York and back, but New York was stressful. And in that time, I had gone to London and back to, you know, in the early, like, 09 to 12, you know, but I spent a lot of time. Thirteen years of your career in D.C. is a long time. It's a long time. And so we were starting to become. We're getting really close to being empty nesters. You know, I had one at home and my wife, we knew we were going to retire, North Carolina. And she said, do you want to do one more? It's funny because she's the one that kind of talked me into putting in for London. I'm a homebody. And. And then she's like, her favorite place on earth is Hawaii. And I'm like, well, you realize that the office in Hawaii is in Honolulu, not Maui, so it's not like vacate. She's like, yeah, but why don't we put him? I'm like, okay.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

So I felt like I'd be pretty competitive for it because I was already a boss on ppd and it's like, I gotta rotate off. Like, you can't stay, they rotate you off. Right. There's a shelf life. And so I was coming up on three years. I'm like, I think I'll be pretty competitive because they gotta put me out to pasture, basically. And so I'm like, I'll put in for this Hawaii office so I can go check that box. Cause as you know, the Secret Services directorates, like Office of Protective Operations, Office of Intelligence, Investigations, there's like eight or nine, whatever. And so I'm going to go check the INV box because out of all the directorates, the opo, the Office of Protective Operations, and inv, the Office of Investigations, are the two biggest, because that's what we do the most. And there's some smaller ones, but that's the two big ones. So I'm going to check that box to be well rounded. And then I'm going to come back to PPD as a 15, because that was my ultimate goal, to be an ASAC. To be like the number two. Yeah, not number two, but like number three, whatever, on PBD and do that. Like, to me, the 14 on PBD is the hardest job. There's nothing harder. A 15, which is a step up, is probably about the best job because you're the second soup. And you fly out the night before the advance, you know, on the Carplane, and you work the man. The next day you fly home on Air Force One. It's pretty good. Living pretty good. So I'm like, that's. That's what I want to do. I don't need to be the man. I just want to be one of the guys. And so. Because I'd pay my dues, and I felt like that'd be a pretty good way to end my career. Because you're working the Man, I mean, you're working, you're flying home on air. It's easy. It's not easy, but it's good. Good living. And. And so I went to Hawaii and ran our investigative section over there. And then, of course, that was in December 19th. And then, of course, covet hits and what was what I thought was going to be an amazing assignment, which was still a good assignment. Don't get. It's Hawaii. So no one feels sorry for me for moving to Hawaii. But at the same time, it's like, it got really shut down and got weird. And we did have some visitors, but not like we thought we would have.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it just. Pretty liberal state. Like, they kind of do what California does about a week or two later. So whatever Newsom was saying, that's what was happening. It's like, okay, it's 85 degrees here year round, but I can't go to the beach. What? Like, Covid doesn't live in the air at the beach, we're fine. Like, we are, like, literally, like, follow the science until you disagree with it.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So it's like, it was just weird. It got weird. You know. But I did enjoy it. You know, it was Hawaii, so it was very enjoyable. It was me and my wife, and we took one of our dogs, and that was fun and everything. But, like, I did that for about two years, Just under two years. I had planned on doing that and coming back. Like I said, try to get promoted one more time. But it got so crazy with the COVID thing. And then we didn't take the vaccine. So, like, they were really. I was really fighting to keep my job because I was within two years of my retirement and I was trying to not lose my job.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I couldn't travel. I was kind of a burden on the office because there's only two of us in the office that didn't take the shot. And so I felt like the guy above me and the two guys above me were. I don't know if they were mad at me, but they. I was frustrated. I frustrated them.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because I had to pick up my work and one guy retired. So, like, I was. I felt like I was kind of a. I was a little bit of a burden. I was a little bit dead. If I'm being honest. I was dead weight. Cause I couldn't. I couldn't do anything but sit at my desk and grade papers. You know, you turn in a report, I could read your report, but I couldn't travel. And so. And it was getting weird. Too. Because like, you couldn't go if you didn't have a vaccine card. You couldn't go to a restaurant. And we're like, okay, well what's next? Grocery shop. Like, eventually they're not gonna let us go to groceries, you know, which did happen later. We got out before that. But like, if you didn't have a card, you couldn't get in. I'm like, well, I gotta eat. How the heck am I supposed to get food? So I'm like, peace. And so I went to my boss and I was like, look, man, I'm within a year retirement. I have no desire to go back to dc. I've had a good career. I'm out. Like, I'm gonna cut my losses. I'm out. And I would like to respectfully take a downgrade. I want to go home. And he thought I was crazy, you know, and in hindsight, I do regret doing that. So I worked really hard to get to where I was and then I gave it back and went back to being doing stuff I'd done 10 years ago or whatever. But hindsight's 20 20. And I did what I thought was right at that time, my wife and me and my kids, because we're a long way. Hawaii's great, but man, you're a long way from the family. And you know, I had kids in college and stuff. It's like it was just time to come home.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

You know, and so I took a downgrade and went to Wilmington, North Carolina. I'm from Charlotte area, but I went to Wilmington. So North Carolina is a hard, it's a hard state to get to. Like, you know, it's God's country. People want to, you know, get to North Carolina, so it's kind of hard to get home. So I got as close as I could get. I went to Wilmington, super small office. And I did that for a year. I'm like, I can do anything. I can stand on my head for a year. And so I was, I was completely anti climatic. Way to end my career. Career, you know what I mean? And I was like, man, I wish I hadn't done this. But, you know, I got home, I built my forever home.

[A]

Great.

[B]

My wife doesn't. She didn't. She's. I'm still married to the same woman.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I didn't get divorced and my kids don't hate me. So, you know, I think, I think we won.

[A]

It's incredible. Do you do it all over again?

[B]

Yeah, probably. I would do some things differently for sure. You Know, I think that's. That's life, right.

[A]

What's one you do different?

[B]

Well, I would have definitely gone in the military.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Which is not exactly what you're asking, but I would probably gone in the military.

[A]

Yeah. What would you have done?

[B]

I would have loved to have been a seal or, like, I would have. I don't know if I would have made through BUDS or made it through sf. I would. I would. I would have liked to have done something high speed. You know, that's just my personality. I would have liked to have tried. So I think that's like not ever having tried as hard. Listen, I'm 53 years old, so that ship is sailed for sure. But I think that's why I was chasing that GRS carrot for a long time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because I just like, I can do this. I know I can do it, you know, but it's like, when I had the physical ability, I probably wasn't there mentally. Now that I'm mentally there physically, I probably can't do it. So it's like. Dang it, Scott. But listen, we all, like. I'm a Christian. I am not perfect, but I believe in God, and I believe we all have a path, you know, And I believe I was where I was supposed to be when I was supposed to be. And I don't necessarily have to like it or understand it. I just have to try to accept it. And so I know I've done. I've done my little patriotic thing in my own way. I do wish I could say I was this, that, or the other thing, but, you know, I played college football for a while, too, and. And I only did that for two years, and I. And I decided that was enough because I got out of that thing unscathed. I saw a lot of ACLs torn and concussions and all this stuff. So I'm like, you know, what it's like is not worth it. So it's like everything. Everything's got a shelf life.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So awesome.

[A]

Now what? Tell me what you're doing today.

[B]

Well, I can't say where I work because I'm still in law enforcement and the place I work is. I really like where I work, but they asked me to not. I can talk about Secret Service stuff, but they've asked me not to say where I work. So I'm coming up on my second retirement.

[A]

Very cool.

[B]

I think.

[A]

Is that called double dipping?

[B]

Yeah, probably.

[A]

They say double dipping.

[B]

I think that's fair to say.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It'll be very small. It'll be A very small retirement because I've only, you know, five or six. It's not third. Like, I've got a pretty good retirement from Uncle Sam, but the local retirement will be small because I've only done five or six years, you know, so it'll be small, but that'll be fine. And I'm trying to figure it out, like, you know, am I going to go and do like everybody else and get it in the private sector and chase the money for a little while and do executive protection or something completely unrelated and just get in the business world and make some money? Maybe. But I'm really trying to get my social media stuff going. Like, I have a podcast, as you know, and I'm hoping that that will be.

[A]

Tell us the name of that, but.

[B]

It'S called Scott Bryson beyond the service. Mostly just BTS, like Scott Bryson. BTS. I'm on all socials and my YouTube channel is that. And so trying to grow that platform and hoping that that will take off and we'll just have to see.

[A]

Yeah. And you have a big following out on Instagram. So what's the.

[B]

Instagram's done well.

[A]

Instagram's done well. What would you say is the core of your sort of wrapping this up now?

[B]

What.

[A]

What's the core of what you're trying to accomplish out there? What's your message?

[B]

Man, that's a great question. I think when it started, I just wanted to do this to be sort of cathartic and get some stuff off my chest. Because the Hatch act. Right. For 25 years, I couldn't say much about how I felt. And Secret Service agents are pretty good about compartmentalizing. I just want to get some stuff off my chest. It's hard to see. You see all this stuff and you can't really have an opinion. So I think at first it was just sort of a cathartic thing for me, but. And again, it sounds a little cliche. I just really want to help people. I think there's a lot of things out there that benefit the veterans and as there should be, because PTSD is a real thing. Right? Right. Go down range and get shot up or blown up. That's a real thing. So there's a lot of. I feel like there's a lot of stuff out there for the vets as there should be. I'm going to be very clear. This is not a Mount Everest thing. I'm not trying to compare apples to oranges. I just don't think that the law enforcement community does a great job outside of each individual. Like there might be a chaplain or you can go talk to a psychiatrist, but there's not a whole lot out there for the law enforcement community or first responders. And I think that my wife and I are trying to out figure, figure out how we can help that community. Like a self help thing. Like how do you stay married? Because it's a hard career. It's like more like, it's more like death by a thousand paper cuts. Like as a police officer you see all this crazy stuff. Not every day, but you see some crazy stuff. And then at the end of 25 or 30 years you're like, you got issues too. Like you might not have gone to Iraq and gotten a shootout, but you've seen a bunch of bad stuff over 30 years. And so it's like more of a slow death than like a sucker punch punch type thing. And so we, we're just trying to figure out how we can help people with getting through some of that mental health stuff, stay having a healthy marriage. Because marriage is hard. We all know marriages. You know, this career field is hard on marriages. Yeah, they're hard enough the way it is. Yeah. So just, I don't know, just trying to help people without sound completely sounding cliche with just trying to figure out how to help people. Yeah, I think, yeah.

[A]

And more will, more will be revealed as time goes on with your message, as you keep getting more and more feedback and stuff like that. So. All right, cool. The last, last topic I want to talk around is the, the famous assassination that took place and let's couple it in with the state of the agency, whatever, you know, since you've been gone for a while. I've had Eddie on, I've had Derek on. They hear things.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't know. What do you think?

[B]

Yeah, I mean I'm still kind of wired in, it's been almost three years. I'm, you know, the further away I get, the less and less people I know, you know what I mean? But like I still, I'm in some text groups with guys that are on the job and stuff. I think for me what really stuck out for July 13th was I, I did that job for a long time and I mean, it's hard to sit here. I mean I, one of the things I love to say on my show is we call balls and strikes like I do, I call ball like I, I, I'm going to call balls and strikes. And so sometimes that's painful because I got to say things that I don't want to say about an agency that I gave 25 years of my life to, but I think de man was going to say it. Man, this is gonna, this is gonna hurt me a little bit, but I don't care. Like, DEI is the thing. Yeah, I think DEI's hurt the agency in certain ways, and you let your imagination run with that. But you know what I mean, I think we possibly lowered the standards on certain things. Not everything. And that's only part of it. That's not the whole thing. It's, you know, you're only as good as your weakest link, you know, your lowest common denominator. So this in my. What I love to say is the standard is the standard. You know what I mean? And so if you can meet the standard, you can be on the team. If you can't meet the standard, you're out. And we don't all have to be. Be that. It's okay. We all have different things we're good at, but the standard is the standard. It should never. Race, shouldn't matter. Sex shouldn't matter. All this stuff, nothing should matter. Are you competent? And I work with plenty. I want to be very clear. I work with plenty of females that were competent. So it's not. I'm not saying that likewise, but plenty of females that I would go through a door with. But, like, there are some, not only females, but there, there's some men on the job that shouldn't be on the job. It is what it is. Okay. And I think that was a big part of it. I also think that some of the assets weren't there that should have been, like we talked about, surveillance. Now, you also have to realize that as a former president, and I don't want to make. I don't want to sound like I'm defending the agency here, because I'm ultimately not. But as a former president, you don't get the assets that a sitting president gets. Right. You just don't.

[A]

That's a fact.

[B]

However, comma, this wasn't Carter, this wasn't Bush, this wasn't Obama. This was a guy who just got out of office who was very controversial. Whether it's his fault or not, he's also the nominee, so he should have had more. So this isn't like, you know, Bush 41, who's been in office 20 years. He's passed away, but, you know, like, this isn't a guy who's been out of office 20 or 30 years. This is a guy who's still in it. And so I think some of that because they had a. You know, if you go back and look at the footage, the guys that jumped up on the stage with the working shift, the guys, suits, and there's a couple guys in tactical gear. That's the counter assault team. So he had a CAT team with him. It might have been a smaller team, I don't know. But he also. You look in the background, you can see the SWAT guys, the local SWAT tubes. Okay. He had. He had tactical assets. Why then did he not also have counter surveillance, which would have. That would have been their moment to shine cold. Because, you know, it used to really upset me because I was a. My heart's really. With the CAT program. Like, I felt like more of a. Like, if I had to pick, I'm like, I'm a CAT guy.

[A]

You're a cat.

[B]

But I also enjoyed the surveillance stuff too. And I always had a chip on my shoulder because a lot of the times they were like, oh, the counter surveillance guys, you guys don't do anything. You're just at Starbucks drinking Caulfield. No, dude, we're working. We really working.

[A]

That might be part of the job.

[B]

I'm like, God bless. But it's like, if I would have been there, and I know what I'm talking about because I did it as a hump for four and a half years, and I did it as I ran it for a year. If they would have had. I don't care if it was 1, 2, or. I don't care how many guys you had. If you'd had a couple of people there in plain clothes, that would have been. They would have found that guy. There's no chance. I don't believe there's no chance. I think they would have found him. Sure, I'm having a hard time getting it out. Right? But, like, you know what I'm saying? Like, I. I guarantee they would have found him had we had surveillance guys there. I believe they would have found the guy. And if somebody like me would have been working, I would have probably killed him. Right. You know, I mean, the right guy would. You know, he's laying there with the right. Someone would have walked up and killed the guy or put him in handcuffs.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Stopped. They would. They would save the day and forever and ever and ever. The counter surveillance unit would have been the hero.

[A]

The hero.

[B]

And instead they didn't have the asset. And we know what happened. And I can't.

[A]

I can't.

[B]

I just can't wrap my head around how a guy got within 130 yards, you know. And I have some thoughts and opinions on it. And I don't know if I'm right. I don't know that I'll ever know. But I don't know how a guy like that acted alone, you know. And I don't know how far I want to go with that publicly. But I think that the Deep State is a real thing. I do not think the Secret Service was complicit. I don't. I think other agencies could have been. Maybe they were, maybe they weren't. I don't think we'll ever know. Yeah, I really don't think we'll ever know. But I just have a hard time believe. And again, maybe I'm dead wrong. Maybe that was just dumb luck. Like maybe it's Murphy. Maybe it's just the. The dumb luck of the bat, you know. You know how it is. Like a cop gets shot the big toe and he dies and you shoot the bad guy in the chest twice and he lives. You know, it's like Murphy's always against the good guys, you know what I'm saying? So maybe it was just Murphy, but I don't know. I. Regardless of what it was or why it was.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

If the Secret Service would have had. In my opinion if they would have had a surveillance unit working, it would have never happened. And I'll never not. I'll never not believe.

[A]

What do you think about. There's theories on the highest. The highest point at the. At the site being unmanned. They, they. Is there any relevance to that?

[B]

What are you talking about?

[A]

Like highest tower?

[B]

Oh the, the water tower the back was on.

[A]

Weren't there two there there the cs and I still don't have confirmation if it was a Secret Service counter sniper team or if it was a local law enforcement accountant that I. That's irrelevant here. But wasn't the highest point unmanned to.

[B]

Start off with for starters? Well, I don't know that.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Probably like if you're talking. You talk about the water tower. I think the tower that was still.

[A]

In the, in this. It might have been out of the physical site plan but it's not out of here's where. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, I think you're right. I don't. I don't know. I haven't heard anybody say because I've asked some questions. I've asked some really like I've gone to some and a lot of they're just for whatever reason I've gotten some information.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I've also gotten some guys like I You know, they're kind of scared and I get it, man. They're still on the job.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I've got some guys that are sort of scared to talk about it. I will tell you this though. I do know this. So the, the sniper teams that were working, you know, everything's off. Well, say that. I can't say. So tactical 12, you know, the clock. Tactical. Tw, like service works off tactical. So anyway, the. The guys that were in position, the snipers that you keep seeing, you don't see it much anymore. But when it first happened, the guys that were all over tv, that's not the shooting team. It was the team that wasn't on camera. That shot, it was even further. It was like a 400 yard shot. And I think they were on like a scissor lift or something. I don't know. There's a lot going on. Like when shots rang out too, like, as fate would have it, you know, one of the freaking hydraulic wires got, you know, you saw like water or something in there. From what I understand, that was hydraulics. The scissor lift had gotten shot and the hose was going crazy and it looks like water, but I think it was hydraulics. You know what I mean?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so like they kept saying, and I'm not a sniper, so I don't know. But like, you know, the thing that I do know that like what was her. What was the director's name that took a beating on that? It was a female Cheeto. Cheeto. Kim Cheeto. I keep want to say Julie Pearson, but it was Cheeto. Yeah, but like, dude, really, just, just eat it. There's no pitch. So embarrassing.

[A]

I know.

[B]

Don't say that. So embarrassing. Oh my. I was like cringing like, oh my God. They're there for a while, man. I'll be honest with you. Like, I didn't want to tell people that I retired Secret service agent because I was like, they're like freaking Keystone.

[A]

To be a cool thing now.

[B]

It's like freaking Keystone Cops. I'm like, oh, embarrassing. But like the guys that did shoot the guy that shot was from a different clock position and it was about a 400 yard shot and it was. I mean, he got him good and. But it was, There was a lot going on too. It wasn't like an easy shot with all the stuff going on. So I know some of these. I've seen some podcasts and stuff where, you know, these former military snipers have weighed in and they're, they're speaking more intelligently. About it than I am, because they're. They're snipers. The only thing I would say in defense of the Secret Service guys is this isn't a war zone. You're accountable for. Not that the snipers aren't accountable and military is accountable for their shots too. Right. But like, this is America. This isn't Iraq. This is. This is civilian. We're not in a armed conflict. You know what I mean? Like, you have to be super careful. And it's easy to armchair quarterback now. I'd like to think they would have shot the guy soon. I wish they'd have shot him sooner, too. But I wasn't there. I didn't see the angle. I'm not a sniper, so I don't have much of an opinion on that. I'm glad. Glad the guy got him when he. I wish they would have shot him sooner. I wish they'd had a CSU team there. That would have saved the day and the snipers would have never had to do their thing. But it is what it is.

[A]

Incredible. Would. If CSU's there, do they take the guy off property? Something, one way or another?

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

There's too much. He's doing too many things that don't make sense.

[B]

Right. Well, what really bothered me too is allegedly, right. This. An officer climbed up and saw him. Dude, you're a cop.

[A]

I know.

[B]

Shoot his ass.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Shoot him right now.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I mean, he's laying on a roof in a protected zone with the leader. Not the leader, but the presidential candidate right there with a freaking AR15.

[A]

Right.

[B]

He's up there to sell ice cream cones.

[A]

I know.

[B]

Kill him.

[A]

So crazy.

[B]

Or if you can't at least get the drop on him.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then if he doesn't comply, then you can. You know what I mean?

[A]

Yeah. Instead.

[B]

And handcuff. I mean, like, dude, it would have been to me. Again, I wasn't there. And I'm trying to have grace for these guys, but it's like, dude, it could have been so easily avoided by having a plain clothes unit working, which I know we have because I used to do it. And it would have been. You would been. You may have never gotten publicly recognized, but you would have been an internal rock star.

[A]

Right?

[B]

And that program would be like, see, I told you this crap works.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you'd have been. You would have saved the day.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Otherwise. And now look. And he's lucky he didn't. I mean, he shot him right there. I mean, how does that happen?

[A]

Crazy. So insane.

[B]

So crazy.

[A]

Man.

[B]

That was a hard day, man. That really. That was a hard day to watch. Awful.

[A]

Awful. Still is. Still is awful.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

All right, man. You're incredible. Nah, so much. What a. What a career. Oh, God.

[B]

I appreciate you having me.

[A]

From the. The. Just the travel with Trump and all you got to see and do. I mean, you saw a lot of great stuff, man. So I appreciate you coming in. Appreciate you having me sharing all this good stuff. We'll make sure to tag you follow up. That's it.

[B]

Yeah. Appreciate, Jeff.

[A]

Thanks.

[B]

Thank you, man.