🎙️ Interesting Humans Podcast - Episode 57 Summary: "CIA's Funniest Blunders (Yet Dangerous) Missions"

Host: Jeff Hopeck
Guest: Nick McKinley, Former CIA Operative and Founder of Deliver Fund
Release Date: May 22, 2025

Introduction

In Episode 57 of the Interesting Humans Podcast, host Jeff Hopeck welcomes back Nick McKinley, a former CIA operative with over three decades of combat experience spanning Special Ops and the CIA. This episode delves into some of the CIA's most amusing yet perilous missions, blending humor with the inherent dangers of intelligence operations. The conversation is part one of a two-part series, focusing primarily on light-hearted anecdotes before transitioning to more serious discussions in the upcoming segment.

1. Sleep Tight America: A Covert Operation Gone Awry

Timestamp: [00:38]

Nick introduces the centerpiece of the episode: the "Sleep Tight America" operation. Contrary to popular belief that intelligence agencies operate in a perpetual state of high-stakes tension akin to a "Jason Bourne movie," Nick reveals that many missions are peppered with unexpected and often humorous mishaps.

Nick: “After doing 30 combat deployments between Special Ops and the CIA, I have way more funny stories than I do scary stories. […] Sometimes in very, very rare circumstances, you'll lose them, but most of the times, you let them follow you to know exactly where they are.”

The Operation Breakdown:

• Objective: Conduct a surveillance operation in a country ending with "-stan," aiming to intercept enemy surveillance without raising alarms.

• Plan: Execute a smooth maneuver around a corner, utilizing bushes for cover where enemy agents allegedly could not spot them. The team rehearsed this move multiple times, aiming for a swift 10-second operation.

• The Blunder: As the team launched the operation, one operative's shoe lace snagged on clamps holding down crucial radio wires, causing him to get entangled right as they attempted their covert exit.

Nick: “He gets caught up, and then it's like, oh, crap, what do we do? […] His shoe lace had actually caught on one of the clamps holding the wire down.”

• Aftermath: Despite the initial chaos, the team managed to free their colleague, who, displaying remarkable agility reminiscent of a Cirque du Soleil performer, walked away with the humorous remark, “Sleep tight, America. We got this.”

Impact and Legacy:

The incident not only provided the team with a much-needed moment of levity but also led to procedural changes to prevent similar mishaps in the future.

Nick: “We went through every single vehicle that had those one-sided clamps and removed them all.”

2. The North African Misadventure: When Trees Disappear

Timestamp: [07:00]

Nick recounts another mission in North Africa that underscores how unpredictable real-life operations can be, often diverging sharply from meticulously planned protocols.

Operation Overview:

• Objective: Secure an asset in broad daylight amidst an active tribal war, avoiding nighttime operations due to heightened risks of checkpoints and gunfights.

• Planning: The team identified a specific area under a large, seemingly permanent tree—rare in the region—that provided the perfect cover for their asset pickup. Rehearsals were conducted multiple times, albeit not at the actual location.

The Blunder:

• Unexpected Change: On the day of the operation, the critical tree was inexplicably absent. It had been cut down just two days prior, likely for mundane reasons such as construction or firewood, rather than any malicious intent.

Nick: “It was just a fluke thing that happens. Someone needed the wood from the tree, and so whoever was in charge of that tree finally gave somebody the permission to cut it down.”

• Consequences: The asset, now without cover, panicked and called the team—an action he was strictly prohibited from doing. Despite the heightened tension, the team successfully salvaged the operation.

Nick: “It still turned into an absolute nothing burger. It was just very anticlimactic. And we all just went home.”

Reflection:

This incident highlights the delicate balance between meticulous planning and the unpredictable nature of field operations. It also underscores the importance of adaptability and quick thinking in the face of unforeseen challenges.

3. The Unexpected Guardian: A Short, Fat Egyptian Dude Saves the Day

Timestamp: [23:42]

In the midst of detailing a particularly tense encounter with a militant group equipped with lethal anti-aircraft cannons, Nick shares an unexpected twist that averted a potential disaster.

Scenario:

• Setting: Former military personnel, including Nick, were traversing a hostile region in an armored vehicle, representing themselves as American embassy officials.

• Threat: The team encountered a checkpoint manned by foreign fighters armed with a modified ZSU-23-2 anti-aircraft cannon. These cannons, originally designed to disable aircraft, were repurposed to devastating effect against ground vehicles.

The Tension:

• Engagement: As Nick attempted to communicate using a translator, the situation escalated with the militant leader making aggressive moves. The presence of the lethal cannon posed an immediate threat to the team's safety.

The Savior:

• Appearance of a Guardian Angel: Just as tensions peaked, a short, fat Egyptian man with glasses intervened, offering to translate between Nick and the militants. His timely assistance changed the course of events.

Nick: “So that's when I learned that my guardian angel is a short, fat Egyptian dude.”

Outcome:

• Diplomacy Over Firepower: The translator facilitated a peaceful resolution, allowing the team to safely navigate past the checkpoint without resorting to violence. This unnerving encounter could have ended disastrously had it not been for the unexpected mediator.

Nick: “There was absolutely no incident that could have gone any number of ways. […] It just turned into an absolute nothing burger.”

Analysis:

This story illustrates the unpredictable nature of field missions and the invaluable role that unexpected allies can play in averting crises. It also serves as a testament to the importance of human connections, even in the most high-stakes environments.

4. Understanding the Physiological Dive

Timestamp: [25:38]

Shifting gears from mission anecdotes, Nick delves into the concept of the "physiological dive," a state of heightened focus and calm under extreme stress—a crucial trait for special operators.

Definition and Mechanism:

• Physiological Dive: A state where, despite facing life-threatening situations, an individual experiences a significant drop in heart rate and respiration, allowing for enhanced clarity and focus.

Nick: “Your breathing actually slows down. You actually get a lot more clear in those moments than you are on a normal average day.”

Personal Experience:

Nick shares a transformative moment during a polygraph test, where his physiological dive was inadvertently triggered, revealing his body's innate ability to enter this state without conscious effort.

Nick: “When you come into an area, you don't want to leave the same way you came. […] These devices, the polygraphs, they have trouble reading operators because of this dive.”

Broader Implications:

He connects this phenomenon to other high-adrenaline professions and activities, suggesting that the physiological dive is not exclusive to military or intelligence personnel but is also prevalent among extreme athletes and individuals in high-stakes environments.

Nick: “Extreme athletes, Formula One drivers, skydivers—anyone who perceives their activities as extremely dangerous—likely experience this state.”

Conclusion:

Understanding and harnessing the physiological dive can be a pivotal advantage in both professional and personal high-stress scenarios, enhancing performance and decision-making capabilities.

5. Ongoing Battle Against Human Trafficking

Timestamp: [30:42]

Towards the end of the conversation, despite the episode's focus on humor and blunders, Nick briefly touches upon the persistent issue of human trafficking.

Nick: “There's nothing new in the world of human trafficking. Find a vulnerable child, start grooming them, and then, and then start exploiting them once you get control of them.”

Deliver Fund's Role:

As the founder of Deliver Fund, Nick emphasizes the organization's decade-long commitment to combating human trafficking, highlighting the enduring nature of its methods but also the evolving strategies to counteract them.

Final Thoughts and Insights

Throughout the episode, Nick McKinley provides a candid glimpse into the unpredictable and often absurd realities of intelligence operations. His stories serve as a reminder that behind the veil of secrecy and danger lies a human element filled with moments of levity and unforeseen challenges. Additionally, the discussion on physiological dives offers valuable insights into the mental and physical fortitude required in high-stress professions.

Key Takeaways:

• Adaptability is Crucial: No amount of planning can account for every variable; the ability to pivot in real-time is invaluable.

• Humor as a Coping Mechanism: Even in life-threatening situations, finding humor can maintain team morale and resilience.

• Unexpected Allies Can Change Outcomes: Trusting spontaneous assistance, as seen with the Egyptian translator, can avert potential disasters.

• Innate Human Responses Enhance Performance: The physiological dive underscores the remarkable capabilities of the human body and mind under pressure.

Stay tuned for Part Two of this series, where Jeff and Nick delve into the more serious aspects of CIA operations and intelligence work.