Ep. 60.5: [BONUS] C. Neil Davenport - From Crushed to Creating: How I Established My Film Career

Summary

🎙️ Interesting Humans Podcast - Episode 61: C. Neil Davenport - From Crushed to Creating: How I Established My Film Career
Release Date: June 19, 2025
Host: Jeff Hopeck
Guest: C. Neil Davenport, Writer and Producer for Feature Films

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1. Introduction and Guest Background

In Episode 61 of the Interesting Humans Podcast, host Jeff Hopeck welcomes C. Neil Davenport, a seasoned writer and producer in the feature film industry. Davenport shares his journey from a young, aspiring actor to a successful filmmaker, offering valuable insights into the challenges and triumphs he experienced along the way.

2. Early Career and Transition to Writing ([00:00] - [02:22])

Davenport begins by discussing his initial foray into the entertainment industry as an actor, trained in black box theater. Despite having an agent and a budding acting career, he felt a deeper calling for storytelling. Recognizing his passion for writing, he transitioned into scriptwriting, completing a feature screenplay that he sent out cold to producers.

Jeff Hopeck [00:10]: "You have incredible pieces of your story that I can't wait to tell today."

C. Neil Davenport [02:21]: "I had one screenplay to my name, a feature, and I sent it out cold to people."

3. Encounter with Scammers and Critical Lessons ([02:43] - [10:38])

Davenport recounts a pivotal and harrowing experience early in his career when a producer he trusted turned out to be a scammer. At just 22 years old, Davenport was enamored by the rapid development of his project, which seemed too good to be true. His financial literacy, instilled by his parents, prompted him to question the legitimacy of the offers he was receiving.

C. Neil Davenport [04:25]: "Is it this easy?"

Host Jeff Hopeck [07:01]: "What'd you feel right there?"

Realizing something was amiss, Davenport consulted his family's real estate attorney, who confirmed he was being scammed. This revelation led him to sever ties with the deceitful producer, albeit at a cost of $3,000—his entire savings at the time. Despite the financial setback, Davenport views this experience as a catalyst for his continued pursuit in the film industry, teaching him to recognize red flags and protect himself in future endeavors.

C. Neil Davenport [10:38]: "Even though I ended up paying this person all that I had, it was still a win for me."

4. Navigating the Film Industry: Trust and Networking ([10:38] - [13:11])

Davenport emphasizes the importance of building a trustworthy network and having an entertainment attorney on one’s team. He discusses how his early mistakes taught him to evaluate trustworthy individuals and collaborate with reputable professionals, enhancing his ability to navigate the complex and often treacherous waters of the film industry.

C. Neil Davenport [12:56]: "I know how to jump through them now because of that."

5. The Shift in Filmmaking Locations: From LA to Georgia and Overseas ([13:11] - [20:26])

The conversation shifts to the geographic and economic shifts within the film industry. Davenport highlights the migration of major studios like Marvel to Georgia, driven by attractive tax incentives. However, he notes a growing trend of studios moving overseas due to rising costs and union-related expenses in the United States.

C. Neil Davenport [14:26]: "When Marvel DC, everybody was coming here because of the tax incentive."

Davenport predicts increased competition among states to offer better incentives, which may diminish Georgia's dominance as the primary hub for filmmaking in the U.S. He underscores the fundamental economics driving these decisions, comparing it to choosing between an expensive dealership and a trustworthy local mechanic.

C. Neil Davenport [17:32]: "It's basic economics... it's just, it's money."

6. Economic Pressures and Risk Mitigation in Film Production ([20:26] - [28:40])

Davenport delves deeper into the financial complexities of filmmaking, stressing that producing films in the U.S. has become financially unviable for many. He explains that even independent filmmakers face significant hurdles in securing funding and managing costs, often leading to projects stalling or failing due to lack of investment and inflated expenses.

C. Neil Davenport [35:48]: "It doesn't make sense... to do anything currently."

7. The Role of AI in Filmmaking and Creative Processes ([40:03] - [48:59])

Exploring the intersection of technology and creativity, Davenport discusses the burgeoning role of Artificial Intelligence (AI) in the film industry. He acknowledges both the potential and the fears surrounding AI, noting how it can be a powerful tool for brainstorming and research without replacing the human element essential to storytelling.

C. Neil Davenport [42:22]: "There are big time creatives out there who are embracing this technology which I think is fantastic."

He shares his personal approach to using AI for generating creative suggestions and enhancing research efficiency, while maintaining authenticity in his work.

C. Neil Davenport [44:08]: "I'll throw in my script and type into the prompt... it will spark an idea."

8. Emerging Trends: Vertical/Micro Dramas ([53:00] - [58:46])

Davenport introduces the concept of "verticals" or micro dramas—short, serialized content tailored for social media platforms like TikTok and YouTube Shorts. Originating in China, these series consist of 60 episodes per season, each lasting one to two minutes, designed to captivate and addict viewers through rapid storytelling.

C. Neil Davenport [54:57]: "It's like the Guiding Light on your phone or Dallas on your phone."

He explains the strict structure required to create engaging verticals, emphasizing the importance of hooks, thematic clarity, and emotional engagement within the limited timeframe.

C. Neil Davenport [55:53]: "You have to hit the 3, 7, 21 rule... establish addiction."

9. Emphasis on Authenticity and Character in Productions ([58:46] - [65:14])

Jeff Hopeck and Davenport discuss the critical balance between competence and character in media production. Davenport underscores the importance of authenticity, both in storytelling and personal conduct, advocating for genuine content that resonates emotionally with audiences.

C. Neil Davenport [62:10]: "You own up to your mistakes and say, I messed up."

Davenport shares personal anecdotes illustrating the value of honesty and integrity in professional relationships, reinforcing the significance of a supportive network.

10. Personal Growth Through Adversity and Advice for Aspiring Filmmakers ([65:14] - [67:37])

Wrapping up the episode, Davenport offers profound advice based on his experiences:

1. Get Out of Debt: Financial stability is crucial when pursuing creative dreams.
2. Build a Supportive Team: Surround yourself with individuals who provide economic, spiritual, and emotional support.

C. Neil Davenport [65:28]: "Get out of debt. ... Make sure your support team supports you."

He recounts a pivotal moment where owning up to a significant mistake on set earned him respect and retained his position, highlighting the long-term benefits of accountability.

C. Neil Davenport [62:36]: "You own up to your mistakes and say, I messed up."

11. Conclusion and Final Thoughts

The episode concludes with Davenport expressing his gratitude for the opportunity to share his story and Jeff Hopeck emphasizing the importance of Davenport's lessons for listeners aspiring to enter the film industry. Davenport's journey from being scammed to establishing a robust career serves as a testament to resilience, strategic learning, and the unwavering pursuit of one's passion.

Jeff Hopeck [66:43]: "That's a great lesson to people out there... Get a lawyer quickly."

C. Neil Davenport [67:08]: "I love your content... it's an honor to be on your show."

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Key Takeaways:

• Financial Literacy: Understanding and managing finances is crucial in the competitive film industry.
• Legal Protection: Securing an entertainment attorney can safeguard against potential scams and unethical practices.
• Adaptability: The ability to pivot and embrace new trends, such as verticals and AI, is essential for sustained success.
• Authenticity: Genuine storytelling and personal integrity foster trust and long-term relationships in the industry.
• Support Systems: Building a strong network of support—both emotional and professional—can help navigate the uncertainties of a creative career.

Notable Quotes:

• "Is it this easy?" — C. Neil Davenport [04:25]
• "Even though I ended up paying this person all that I had, it was still a win for me." — C. Neil Davenport [10:38]
• "If you're not snakes and everything, it's an ocean full of very, potentially very dangerous territory." — C. Neil Davenport [11:41]
• "The moment I'm disappointed in you is the moment I hear you say you give up." — C. Neil Davenport [65:57]

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For more about C. Neil Davenport and his work, visit his IMDb page or connect with him on LinkedIn.

Transcript

[Host]

All right, folks, welcome back to another episode. I have C. Neil Davenport with me today. He is a writer and producer for feature films. Thank you for being here.

[C. Neil Davenport]

You. Thank you.

[Host]

Reached out through Instagram. You came across one of the podcasts. You happen to be local, and then it turns out you have incredible pieces of your story that I can't wait to tell today. So, folks, his bio is going to be the first comment that you'll see. No matter what social media or YouTube, wherever you're at, his bio to his IMDb will be there. You can learn everything about him, his history and all that stuff. I got to do this one justice today and dive right in.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Sure. Let's do it. Deep end.

[Host]

Yes.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Into the fire.

[Host]

Every day we're hearing about these scams, and I hope nobody on here ever gets scammed. I hope I. I hope you never go through what you're about to hear, and I hope your kids never have to deal with it. But the unfortunate truth is that it's happening every day and it's happening all around us. I hear them and I go, how are people falling for that? Well, we're about to hear the story that got Neil into the industry, for starters. And I'll just say this. They're not walking around with signs on them going, I'm the. I'm the criminal. Tell me this story.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Yeah, I. You know, you hit a very pivotal point right there. You know, so it's like, I think if there's a lesson to this story, if. If there is an aspiring artist wanting to get into this specific industry, first thing to do, get an entertainment attorney. Just. That's not first thing. First thing.

[Host]

Okay.

[C. Neil Davenport]

First thing.

[Host]

Great.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Because you need someone on your team. You need someone there to protect you.

[Host]

So you were how old when this all?

[C. Neil Davenport]

I graduated my. With my undergrad in 2016 as a year after that. So I was around 22, 23, 10 years ago. And so I started out as an actor in this industry. I was reared in black box theater. Acting was the only craft that I could provide at the time to get into the industry.

[Host]

Sure.

[C. Neil Davenport]

And had an agent, and I always felt that there was something more I could offer. So did a deep dive, found out that I was a writer at heart, have always been a writer at heart. And I had one screenplay to my name, a feature, and I sent it out cold to people. You know, I. I treat networking as a second religion for me.

[Host]

Yeah.

[C. Neil Davenport]

And so this script got in the hands of a producer who walked up and shook my hand and said, hi, I'm so and so. And I love your script, and I want to produce it. I want to make it. And I. I was young and stupid and.

[Host]

Yeah.

[C. Neil Davenport]

I mean, eyes bigger than my stomach and. And of course, I'm not going to say no. And, you know, this person, like you said, acted trustworthy, looked trustworthy. Just. There was. There was nothing about this person that had any, you know, signal red flags.

[Host]

They didn't have their shirt on that day that said, I'm about to screw you.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Yeah, no, no, that would have been a lot.

[Host]

I mean, that's the thing.

[C. Neil Davenport]

That would have been great.

[Host]

Here we are, the table set for, like, you're 22. Wow. It's all right here. All I got to do is say yes.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Yeah.

[Host]

Then what happens?

[C. Neil Davenport]

Yeah. You know, so goes very quickly, you know, anytime, unless you're just, like, touched by the divine and you just have the right people a part of the project. This. This particular project happened very quickly. Like, we started hiring people very quickly, and everybody were yes men. Now that I look back on it with hindsight, it's like everybody was, like, jumping on board because it was a job, you know, and there were contracts being drafted. There were signatures being put on these contracts. There. There was money being promised. And the whole time I'm going, well, isn't this great?

[Host]

Right?

[C. Neil Davenport]

You know, I'm like, how lucky am I? Yeah, I'm. I'm. That.

[Host]

Is it this easy?

[C. Neil Davenport]

Is it this? Yeah, exactly. Because you hear. You hear nightmare stories about scripts taking 10 years to get off the ground and.

[Host]

Right.

[C. Neil Davenport]

And I mean, it's. It's like, wow, I'm. This is insane. But the thing is, I kept asking the question, where is the money coming from? Right. How are these people getting paid? How am I getting paid?

[Host]

And you're young and you're thinking those questions.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. Well, because the thing is, I was. I was reared by. By mom and dad. Who are they? Balance the checkbook together. Like, if my mom controlled the checkbook completely, we would have all the money in the world, but nothing to play with. And if my dad had the control of the checkbook, we would have no money, but have all the toys. So.

[Host]

Okay.

[C. Neil Davenport]

I was reared to be very economically literate, if you will.

[Host]

Yeah.

[C. Neil Davenport]

So I just, you know, that. That question kept coming out. Where did the money come from? Where's the money coming from? Who? Who? I don't know how these things work, but someone has to.

[Host]

Something here was turning.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Yes. Yes. Something didn't feel right. And so I finally reached out to our family's attorney at the time and told him what was going down. And he was like, dude, you're getting scammed.

[Host]

What kind of attorney? Just curious.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Yeah, he. Remember, he was. He was a real estate attorney.

[Host]

Yeah. So not.

[C. Neil Davenport]

But yeah.

[Host]

He was helping you out.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Yeah, he was helping me out. Like, oh, I paid him.

[Host]

It wasn't an entertainment lawyer.

[C. Neil Davenport]

No, no.

[Host]

Yeah.

[C. Neil Davenport]

It was just someone that I trusted and someone who had some. An understanding of the law. Because, I mean, at the time, again, I was ignorant, and I didn't at the time understand that there were different facets of the law that cover different sectors. So I didn't know I needed an attainment attorney. So I reached out to him. I'm like, what's going on? I don't feel right about this. This is happening way too quick. I don't understand where the money's coming from. There is no money, and yet people are expecting checks from me and from you. Yeah. Because that's. That was the contract. Now, when I look back on the contracts, that was how it was lined out. You know, it was like there was this promise of production company being developed under my name and blah, blah, blah. Everything was falling upon me. And so I. He found. He told me, I'm getting scammed by. By these sharks.

[Host]

What'd you feel? Let's pause. What'd you feel right there?

[C. Neil Davenport]

Absolute dread.

[Host]

Did any of you go, now this lady's tune. It was a lady, right? Lady producer.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Yeah.

[Host]

Was any of you, like. No, I think she's right. And I think you're, you know.

[C. Neil Davenport]

You know, honestly, my initial reaction, I mean, it was dread, but. But Because, I mean, nobody likes being that vulnerable, being taken advantage of. But. But at first I was. I was actually going up to bat for this because I was like, no, that she's not. She's not this person, and she can't be. Yeah, I mean, so. I mean, I. So I went. I was the first one in defense for her.

[Host]

Yeah.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Because I did not want to face that hard truth.

[Host]

Yeah. What'd you do after? So he tells you you're scammed.

[C. Neil Davenport]

So, you know, we look at the contracts and. And he says, get out now. Just don't go away. Just. Just stop. The only communication that you need to have is. Is a letter that is written up that says you're fired.

[Host]

But you had signed something.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Yeah.

[Host]

Okay, so I want to be really clear. Whatever.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Yeah.

[Host]

You didn't just start doing, like, you put a signature on. Okay, cool. No. No worries.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Yeah, I put a Signature on there that says, I owe you money for doing X. And, and again, that just like triggered the question. It's like, I don't have any.

[Host]

But you don't have money.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Right. And you're signing me up to do student. I don't. It's so many questions.

[Host]

Yeah.

[C. Neil Davenport]

So ultimately, you know, we eventually got the producer gone. I didn't. We, we, we. Because that's the thing. What happens is like when you're get, when you're getting scammed, the person who's scamming you, if you, if they find that you catch them in time, then they'll leave. They, they really. I mean, it's just there, there's been certain incidences with other people that I've known who have gotten scammed. And fortunately, because they caught them in time then, and they did the appropriate legal steps, then it's like, bye bye.

[Host]

Yeah.

[C. Neil Davenport]

So, but, but the director that we hired on didn't go away. And this, this person was like, I'll go away for 15 grand. I don't have 15 grand to just. Are you kidding me? I'm in the world. Just so, so that dread turned into frustration and anger. Yeah. And at the time, because I was an actor in that year, I had only made three grand.

[Host]

Sure.

[C. Neil Davenport]

And that's all I had to my name.

[Host]

Yeah.

[C. Neil Davenport]

So I, I negotiated with this person, I whittled the number down from three grand. Excuse me, from 15 to three grand. And then, you know, as soon as, as soon as. Because I mean, as soon as it was like in the email, yes, I'll do it for three grand. I'll be out for three grand. You know, screenshot that. Because it's, it's legal and, and, and okay, here's a three grand. Here's, here's a letter from the attorney that everything is this wrapped up in a nice little bow. There's no more communication. Bye bye. And you know, it, it where, where most people who go through that would, would say, oh, I don't want to do that again. I'm gonna get out of this field.

[Host]

Run far.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Run far. Yeah. As fast as you can. Even though I, I ended up paying this person all that I had, it was still a win for me. And it, and it was gasoline in the engine for me to continue this pursuit of my career. That's incredible because it, I don't, I mean, some, A therapist can explain it better, but yeah. You know, there was something in that failure of mine that I was able to take and learn from and apply to other business Opportunities.

[Host]

Incredible. What a. What a story, man.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Yeah.

[Host]

To. To then be the fuel that gets you right back in. So it's like you touch a hot stove and you go. Like, the scars not even healed, and you're like, I'm going back to the. I'm going back to touch it again.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Yeah. It's. It's insane. I know.

[Host]

It's a terrible. In, like, we're gonna get into this. It's a terrible place.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Yeah.

[Host]

Right. Infested with sharks.

[C. Neil Davenport]

I mean. I mean, if you're not snakes and everything. I mean, it's an ocean full of very, potentially very dangerous territory. But, you know, on the surface, it's very beautiful and serene and everybody wants to be a part of it, you know, but until you pull that curtain back, it's like, oh, this is what it is. It's, you know, a lot of. A lot. I. I have. Two days ago, actually, I met up with a buddy of mine, and he's. He's getting out. You know, he's been. He's been in the industry for a while as. As, you know, trying to be an actor, and he's gotten some stuff.

[Host]

Yeah.

[C. Neil Davenport]

But he's just tired of it. He's tired of the bureaucracy. He's tired of the. The game that you have to play.

[Host]

Yeah.

[C. Neil Davenport]

And there's truth to that.

[Host]

Yeah.

[C. Neil Davenport]

But it's. You gotta be willing to play.

[Host]

Yeah.

[C. Neil Davenport]

And. And I'm not saying that everybody in this industry is. Is corrupt and untrustworthy. I have. Fortunately, because of the incident, I have been able to garner how to evaluate trustworthy people. Yeah. And. And navigate those waters to where I've been able to work with very terrific individuals of this industry since.

[Host]

That's awesome.

[C. Neil Davenport]

I mean, have I run into, you know, fiery, spiky, hoops of fire that I've had to jump through in the. Mean, in the interim? Sure.

[Host]

It's everywhere.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Yeah. But. Whereas. But I know how to jump through them now because of that.

[Host]

See, that's incredible wisdom, man, that you're passing on. I love it. All right. There's so much going on in this industry. The first thing I want to talk about, cfla, which everybody knows that's where films are made.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Yeah.

[Host]

So you go in, you get your popcorn, your soda, you sit down. You're like, I'm watching a movie. I know for my whole life, that's all I knew. Like, that's cool. Great. Watch another movie. Watch another movie. And it'll be there and I'll pay and the movie will be there. And now since this podcast, I'm interested in everything because I know there's always another side of it.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Sure.

[Host]

So, you know, you say Hollywood, Louisiana, now you got Georgia, which to us, to the consumer looked like, hey, things are moving from Hollywood to Georgia. But you talk about this word here is you say there's a significant segregation between Georgia and la, that we aren't them. So what. What's going on?

[C. Neil Davenport]

So, you know, when Marvel dc, everybody was coming here because of the tax incentive. You know it.

[Host]

What year was that for, roughly? Like, is that a couple years ago?

[C. Neil Davenport]

Oh, I knew it was like 2002. What? Ant man was the first film, first Marvel film in. In Trilith.

[Host]

Yeah.

[C. Neil Davenport]

And I think that was in 2019. No earlier than it was some time ago.

[Host]

So let's say like 19 just to.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Yeah. Probably gonna have that date wrong. But.

[Host]

Yep.

[C. Neil Davenport]

You know when. For. I'm going to use truth as an example. When Trilith was originally rebranded and was previously Pinewood Atlanta.

[Host]

Yeah.

[C. Neil Davenport]

And. And so there was like this deal made that, that they were going to bring films here. And at the time, Georgia. I mean, look, Georgia still offers the best, in my opinion, the best tax incentive for. For union development of entertainment, whether it's features or television.

[Host]

Okay, that's.

[C. Neil Davenport]

But, you know, right now, everything's moving overseas. Right now, everything is. And there's a lot of factors that go into play with that, and the industry is very much in a dry spell currently. People don't know what's happening. There's not enough information out there to. You know, I hear the word pivot constantly now. It's. It's you. You have to be willing, like a producer. I was talking about pivot or die. And so, you know, in the last. I'll give it a grace period of 10 years, films were booming here. And so when money, when the money is good, then people go where. Where the money is. And because, I mean, at the end of the day, you know, you look at a film, it hits you emotionally. It could be an artistic piece, but at the. But. But it's at the. It's a product at the end of the day that needs to be marketed and sold and, and earn a profit. Because if you're not earning a profit, then guess what you, as a filmmaker aren't doing the next day.

[Host]

Yeah.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Yeah. So the, the thing with it is, is, you know, there was this, this hype up Georgia sell Georgia. Georgia is the place to go.

[Host]

Right.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Especially with Tyler Perry Studios and Assembly Studios and all these studios happening here, which Is wonderful.

[Host]

Yeah.

[C. Neil Davenport]

But then after Covid and then after the trifecta strike went down, then these, the big five, you know, Disney, Universal, Warner Brothers, these major companies that are based in la, they found that it's becoming too expensive to film and develop in the States. And the places that don't have union fees and other additional benefits and tax incentives are overseas. So we're gonna go over there.

[Host]

Okay.

[C. Neil Davenport]

So basically it's a, it's basic economics. Basic, you know, say, say you have a problem with your car and, and where are you gonna go? You're gonna go to the dealership that's going to charge you an arm and a leg and then fear monger you into fixing other things? Or are you going to go to your local mechanic who you trust, who's not gonna, you know, charge you an arm and a leg and not gonna fear monger? You're, you're gonna go to your local mechanic. Yeah, it's just, it's money.

[Host]

Yeah.

[C. Neil Davenport]

And absolutely. So, you know, going back to your comment about segregation, I find that there is this, this subliminal segregation between the south and the west when it comes to this entertainment industry. You know, there's, I've been hearing a lot of people in Georgia, decision makers in Georgia, in this field, go, you know, we're not la, we're not Hollywood, we're the Hollywood of the South. We're not. Were, were not like those people. Yeah. And like I, I heard this one individual say, you know, I'm regrettably from la. I'm like, why are you saying regrettably? Because, I mean, when you look at the, when you look at the numbers, everything comes from la. If LA is hurting, then everywhere else that is making films will hurt because that's just how the money trickles down.

[Host]

Yeah.

[C. Neil Davenport]

I mean, and look, yes, Georgia and these studios are wanting to make homegrown content. And that's wonderful. They should absolutely do that. But at the same time, they should, I think, be willing to support LA in its economic infrastructure in some capacity. Because, you know, it goes along with the saying a rising tide lifts all boats. And when the industry comes back to the states, which it will at a, at a certain point, you know, you still want these companies to come back to Georgia because Georgia is going to offer the best tax incentive and the best benefits. But what I think is going to happen, you see, you see trickles of it happening now where certain states are lobbying for higher tax incentives and higher benefits so that they can attract the film business.

[Host]

Yeah.

[C. Neil Davenport]

And so my My, My. My prediction is that when these companies find that it's economically beneficial for them to come back to the states and bring the business back here and all the jobs and everything.

[Host]

Yeah.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Georgia won't be. There's going to be a huge competition between states because if these other states garner. Get, you know, the stamp of approval for. For higher tax incentives and benefits, Georgia's not going to be the place to be.

[Host]

It won't be a shoe in. Okay.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Yeah.

[Host]

So I understand the good that comes with it. You got thousands, if not tens of thousands of people moving in. It's great for local restaurants, all that other good stuff.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Sure.

[Host]

Totally got it. It's the argument of, like, the casinos, Right. Yeah. They'll bring a fortune to a town, but if you want to destroy a town, bring a casino. Right. Because with it. And it's. I mean, it's just the way it works. The way. Right. So you have money, temptation. You got all this other stuff. What's the sin that comes in. I'll use the word sin, but what's the filth that comes along with it? Or am I making a gross assumption myself and there's not any filth and it's all clean?

[C. Neil Davenport]

Well, no, no, no.

[Host]

It's.

[C. Neil Davenport]

It's not all. It's not all clean. You know, it's the. The sin that's a. That's actually a really good word to describe it. The. The sin that comes with that is just the. The. The politics, the bureaucracy, the. The. The game that. That people make other people play in order to get ahead. You know, there's. There was this one incident where, you know, there was this film that I was working on, and nobody really understood where the money was coming from. And I make. I made a joke. I made a. It was a joke with the producer. I'm like, yeah, someone dropped a big bag and a white cloud poofed out of it.

[Host]

Right.

[C. Neil Davenport]

And he was like, you're not far off. I'm like, what? Wait, are you kidding? I don't want to know anymore. I just.

[Host]

But was it, like, nuts? What was it? They were just burning money.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Yeah.

[Host]

Spending, like, was because of how much they were spending or the crazy stuff they were spending on?

[C. Neil Davenport]

Well, it was how much it was how much they were spending on. And the quality of the film wasn't great. And it's just, you know, when you. When you look at, you know, the reason why particular investors invest, it's sometimes it's because they genuinely believe in the film. And that's wonderful. They Believe in the project. For example, I am producing a short film currently that's all about suicidal prevention for teenagers. And we're talking, I mean, our budget's not as significant as a feature, but it's a good budget. And we're talking to this one person who's potentially willing to give us our full amount because she believes in our mission. Um, and I just got goosebumps. But. And I mean, I'm happy to talk about that more, but it's, you know, there are other investors out there who are just like insatiably wealthy people who, because they do their taxes quarterly and they learn that, oh, they have to pay, you know, a couple million dollars in taxes. Well, their accountant goes, okay, well, you can donate to this charity or you can do this 513C or you can, you know, under the purview, invest in this llc, which, which pays people. And that's a nice little tax write off for you.

[Host]

Yeah. So which isn't film credits, right?

[C. Neil Davenport]

Film credit.

[Host]

Yeah.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Which isn't bad.

[Host]

Right.

[C. Neil Davenport]

But, but it's, it's just another. That's part of, that's part of it. So, you know, with me venturing into this further, further, further into this field of producing, you know, I'm learning more and more about where the money is going, why the money is going in that particular place at that particular time, and just trying to figure out the, the win, win, win of the situation.

[Host]

Yeah.

[C. Neil Davenport]

And because, I mean, I, I'm producing this, I'm producing this one feature. It's a faith based football biopic of Chase Blackburn titled All in, about him, you know, getting cut from the team as a linebacker for the New York Giants in 2012.

[Host]

Yeah.

[C. Neil Davenport]

And I, I had an investor meeting.

[Host]

Yeah.

[C. Neil Davenport]

And, and he's this, this investor was like, I love the story, you know, this great.

[Host]

It's great.

[C. Neil Davenport]

But this is not the right time for me to invest. I'm like, what are you talking about? You have, you clearly have the money. You're very interested. Why is it not the time for you to. And it was because of certain taxes, tax breaks and whatnot for this guy.

[Host]

Yeah.

[C. Neil Davenport]

And it just, it was like incredibly eye opening.

[Host]

Sure.

[C. Neil Davenport]

I was like, oh, but you see.

[Host]

A whole nother side of it.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Absolutely. I see another angle. I mean, because that's what, that's kind of like going, going back to the sin of, of this industry. You know, you just have to be aware that the, you know, on the surface everything looks very artistic and magical and amazing and because, I mean, when you watch A film. That's what you get. You go, oh, this is incredible. But then once you get into the weeds of it and you pull back the curtain a bit, you learn. I've learned that this industry is all about risk mitigation. You know, how. How do I, as a decision maker, as a business developer, put in a certain amount to get more. More out of it at the end of the day?

[Host]

Yeah.

[C. Neil Davenport]

How do I mitigate that risk of losing my investment?

[Host]

Sure.

[C. Neil Davenport]

And my, you know, whether it's economic or resources or whatever, but it's, it's just learning that reality of people. The further you get into this, the. Yes. People are in it for, like, they, they. They want to help the world and they want to put out their artistic voice and whatnot, but really it's about the money. And if someone's not making money, that. That artist isn't going to voice. Have their voice out there.

[Host]

Are there times where you're asked to alter something that goes against your morals?

[C. Neil Davenport]

Absolutely.

[Host]

From an investor. Right. Or.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Yeah. There's no such thing as free money.

[Host]

Yeah, there's always money, but it's.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Yes.

[Host]

Tell me about something that they want to change.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Yeah.

[Host]

Mine. A sentence, A date. Do they want to flat out lie the whole.

[C. Neil Davenport]

I mean, it could. It sometimes is a entire script. I mean, the. There's. There's one project that I was. I was producing. Well, okay, there's. I'll use this other. Other example. There's this one project that I. Yeah, I was producing and a feature. And the. I read the script. It's. It's an okay script, but as a writer, storyteller, I was like, I was talking to that producer. I was like, you need to really alter X, Y and Z and X, Y, and Z. It wasn't a major rewrite, but it was somewhat of a significant rewrite.

[Host]

Yeah.

[C. Neil Davenport]

And the only reason why he didn't want to apply these notes was because he didn't have any money and he couldn't pay his writers to do the rewrite. And I, I explained the reason. Look, you want. You want to make this movie, you're aiming for this very niche audience. You're aiming for this very niche brand of a production company to take on this project, to develop it. It has to hit these. These bullet points. It has to hit these tropes. And right now, the script is not hitting. Hitting these notes. I'm not giving notes on this script because, you know, I think my voice as a storyteller is profound or whatever. I'm giving notes on the script. Because in a marketing point of view, it's not telling the story that it needs to in order to garner a profit at the end of the day and at, you know, long story short, they didn't apply the notes. And you know what? They still haven't gotten the money.

[Host]

No way.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Because every, every person that this script goes in front of, they always say the same thing. It's missing X, Y and Z. Yeah.

[Host]

Have you ever flat out seen anybody try to like, hey, here's my, here's your script. It looks good, but I want you to put some political crap in there. Whether it's like, this isn't a political conversation.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Sure, sure.

[Host]

Like they want to force some political agenda in there. And, and you're like, this is, this is so blatant. It's sickening. I can actually throw up. Yeah, anything like that.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Yeah, there's. It happens more often than, than you would like to think.

[Host]

I don't even know if I want to know.

[C. Neil Davenport]

I mean, I mean. Well, I think, I mean, do we.

[Host]

Want to know this answer, guys?

[C. Neil Davenport]

I think, I think Disney is the best example for this. You know, back when, I mean, look, we're in post WOKE movement, you know, it's, it's done. And you look at the model of Disney during that time and the films that they developed during that time, they tanked and they, because they focused on that niche audience instead of, instead of the family Unit audience in which classic Disney was hinged upon. I mean, Iger came out and said woke broke Disney. And right after that point, I forget which super bowl it was the number. But you know, there was a Super bowl commercial about Disney plus because all these families were saying, we don't like what Disney's don't doing. We don't like their direction. They're catering to this, this WOKE ideology and we're unsubscribing. Well, Disney put out a commercial that, where it was just quotes, black text quotes over a white backdrop that had like from Toy Story and Little Mermaid and Winnie the Pooh, all these famous quotes from these classic Disney films. Because Disney was advertising the fact that they were putting all of these films that were successful films that people, the family unit loved back on Disney so that they don't go away, so that they don't lose subscribers and so they don't lose money. They pivoted. And, and so I think, I think that was like, that's the best example I can give for, for, you know, trying.

[Host]

Great.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Trying to make something. Trying to make something that could be great. Something that it's not.

[Host]

Yeah.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Trying to play that agenda, if you will.

[Host]

Yeah, yeah. The easiest way to not have any kind of dispute over the content is to speak with your wallet and just hit unsubscribe. And we, that, that's what we did. We don't, we don't. I can't, I can't take it anymore. One day we're this, one day we're that. One day Disney's doing this. One day they're taking. Now we're going to take the content down. They'll fight, then they'll back off, then they'll fight, then they'll back off. And it's like, okay, good, we'll find another place. So we haven't had it in a. Yeah. Crazy long time.

[C. Neil Davenport]

And, and I think, you know, you're, you see trickles of this evidence where, where the audience are seeking authentic stories.

[Host]

Right.

[C. Neil Davenport]

You know, it's, they're, they're. Yes. There's always going to be well developed commercial franchise entities and you know, those, those are needed.

[Host]

Yeah.

[C. Neil Davenport]

And you know, escapism is fantastic. You know, Marvel's is trying to get back on the, on the high end with that, with, with the coming fast Fantastic Four and Doctor Doom movies, which are great. You know, you should absolutely do that.

[Host]

Sure.

[C. Neil Davenport]

But, but we, you know, over the last decade we have spent so much time in, in my opinion, unauthentic work.

[Host]

Yeah.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Work that is clearly agenda driven and we just want your money and there's no heart in the story. Whereas now you look at the, the recent films that have come out and they genuinely speak to people.

[Host]

Yeah.

[C. Neil Davenport]

I mean, it's, it's amazing. So Hollywood is paying attention. You know, they're, they're these companies that are putting out commercial material are paying attention to their audience finally and giving them what they want. And it's wonderful.

[Host]

It's awesome. That's like the other side of it. All right, tell me, tell me a, tell me a theme or a movie or something that Hollywood just. Absolutely. And when I say Hollywood now, I gotta be clear. Like Hollywood, meaning Hollywood's everything.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Sure. Okay. Yeah.

[Host]

Not just like Hollywood, California.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Yeah, yeah.

[Host]

Hollywood, Georgia. Wherever it's at.

[C. Neil Davenport]

International film industry.

[Host]

The film industry.

[C. Neil Davenport]

The creative economy. What?

[Host]

Yeah, there you go. What, what's, what's a theme they just will not touch or they stay away from at all costs.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Oh, man. Yeah, yeah. The, the theme I think they, they are afraid to touch is currently there. I think there's this growing trend of not being willing to Acknowledge they don't know what's going on. You know, they, they want to seem like they have this sense of stability, but, but realistically they're, they know that they're hanging on by, you know, the skin of their teeth. So it's just, you know, things, things such as that not being, not being willing to talk about where they are financially, where they are in a business orientation where things are moving because they just don't know. They're not willing to say they don't know. We don't know. Yeah, I'm sorry.

[Host]

Oh, you're fine.

[C. Neil Davenport]

But so that's, that's one theme. The other theme that I find that people or, you know, the film industry aren't willing to talk about is how it's not, again, in my opinion, financially viable to make anything right now. There's this huge selling point where it's like I keep, I keep hearing, oh, this is the age of the independent artist. Well, thing is, we've, we've all were. We didn't go anywhere. You know, we've always been here. And the, the element, the thing is, is like when you break down the finances in the cost of doing business, of making a feature film.

[Host]

Yeah.

[C. Neil Davenport]

It doesn't make sense, you know, to, to, to do anything currently.

[Host]

Yeah.

[C. Neil Davenport]

For example. And I'm just going to give very generalistic numbers.

[Host]

Yeah.

[C. Neil Davenport]

And because there are, there are always exceptions to the rule.

[Host]

Sure.

[C. Neil Davenport]

But, you know, let's say there's this independent filmmaker who wants to make a feature. What? Okay. There's that perceived unwritten rule that it needs to make money. Because again, if you're, I mean, look, you look at a prestigious artistic director such as Nicholas Winning Refn, who is known for his, like, surreal type of movies, he is quoted to say he knows he has to make money with every film he makes because if he doesn't, he's not gonna be able to make another one. So even artists at some point understand money is pivotal or, excuse me, money is vital. So if an independent filmmaker is wanting to make a feature with the context of making money, making a profit, at the end of the day, you could go non union. You know, you can make a feature that is well written, well developed, that doesn't have an A list or B list director attached or cast. And at the best case scenario, you win, you know, best feature at Cannes or whatever, south by Southwest, a high tiered film festival, at that point, it's probably not going to be sold. You know, a sales agent isn't going to pick it up and offer you money for your ip because you're a nobody and you don't have any names associated, so you can't really do anything with it. It's just a wonderful laurel and bragging rights. At the end of the day, it could offer you a job, could get you hired on, on a feature down the road, but your film, that product itself, probably won't get picked up, probably won't get bought. Then you're an independent producer. On the other side of things, you're an independent filmmaker. You make a feature. Okay, let's go. Union.

[Host]

Yep.

[C. Neil Davenport]

You attach, you know, union. DGA affiliated director. You attach. SAG affiliated actors. You use. I use these, these, these unions, which are vital in the creation of a union feature. So if you go over the threshold, I think it's $2 million currently. If you go over the threshold of $2 million, then when you have the film in the can ready to be edited, ready to be put together, these unions will come out and say, okay, you went over the threshold and so you owe us some extra fees. Because that's, that was one of the negotiations of the trifecta strike. So, so. But then you've capped out on your.

[Host]

Investors fees, I'm sure, right? No, millions of dollars.

[C. Neil Davenport]

I mean, it's, it's nuts. So, so it's just, you know, it's like, say your, Your feature cost $3 million, and you've capped out on your investors. You don't know where else to get money. I mean, you can get money through loans and banks and whatnot, but you still have to pay that back. And, you know, so you're left there having to pay these extra fees with a film in the can that you're, Aren't you. That you're not able to put together to go sell or distribute.

[Host]

That's frightening.

[C. Neil Davenport]

It just, it's not the best time to make. That's the thing. I don't, I don't feel as though a lot of people are, are willing to say, yeah. And again, it's just my opinion, based off of research and experience that I've had, um, because it's, it's so expensive to make projects in the States right now.

[Host]

So when you say it's going overseas, I get that fundamentally a lot of things are going overseas. A lot of things we're bringing back here. I get the general economics of it, the general math. But what does that actually look like? Like, are we taking actors from here, flying them over there, and then they're living there for months? Yes, we're building sets over there.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Well, they have studios out there. They, I mean what country?

[Host]

Let's pick a country.

[C. Neil Davenport]

London, for example.

[Host]

Okay.

[C. Neil Davenport]

You know, London.

[Host]

Doing a movie in London and Yeah.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Walk me through what happens from my understanding, Marvel moved to London and you know it, it for. Okay. Another more personal example is I have a buddy who is trying to do, trying to produce his Hallmark film and they're looking at shooting, I think it's Vancouver or Toronto. Could one of it's in Canada. Yeah, but you know, it is cheaper for him to fly his A list cast in above the line crew such as the director, the writer. Well, he already has a script but fly the, the decision makers of the film in the A list cast to this other country.

[Host]

Got it.

[C. Neil Davenport]

And utilize their resources and then make the movie and then, you know, ship the movie over here to make a profit. No, I mean that makes sense.

[Host]

I can understand that.

[C. Neil Davenport]

But the reason they're doing it is because, you know, the, the tax incentives with these other countries are, are good and they don't have the pressure of using unions like we do.

[Host]

So there's no you. So I'm guessing there's no union in where Marvel moved.

[C. Neil Davenport]

I, you know, I, I don't know. Okay, we'll you know, fact check that. Yeah, I'll note that I don't know. But I just know it's, it's because of all those other factors, it's more cost efficient for them to fly over there. Which is absurd.

[Host]

Which is that in and of itself totally nuts. Got it. All right, then how in this movement is AI Yeah. Playing into all this stuff?

[C. Neil Davenport]

It's, it's, it's, it's, it is on a fast track, dude. Yeah, I mean I, I love, I love individuals such as Michael Bay who I believe is quoted to say that he wants to use AI in, in certain elements that doesn't get rid of employees or mitigate jobs.

[Host]

Interesting.

[C. Neil Davenport]

So you know, there are, there are big time creatives out there who are embracing this technology which I think is fantastic. Where. And then there's, there's other people out there that just think it's, you know, the stay away. The stay away the plague that's going to kill us all.

[Host]

How's somebody using it? What's an example?

[C. Neil Davenport]

Yeah, well, so I use it.

[Host]

Okay.

[C. Neil Davenport]

You know, I'll just preference it to say that I don't have it write my material. But the way I use AI is when I am in a creative funk, I use it as a brainstorming session. You know, all interesting. I'll throw in. I'll throw in my script and type into the prompt. You know, this is where I'm at. This is where I need to go in the story. These are the beats that I need to hit. Give me 10 creative suggestions that could, could help me out. Outline this certain chunk of the narrative that I'm just having a, you know, block. A block, you know, a brain fart on, you know, and I'll type it in and it'll read all the stuff and it'll go. And the thing is, it will give me wonderful suggestions and not so good suggestions. But the thing is, those suggestions, I may not use any of the suggestions, but when I read the suggestion, it'll spark an idea, you know, and then I'll go, oh, that's what it is. And then I'll start writing. Right. And so, you know, I use it for that purpose. I also use it for research. You know, I save so much time with research now.

[Host]

Yeah, 80.

[C. Neil Davenport]

I always say that 80% whenever I'm on a project. 80% of the development of the script is research and 20% of it is application. Because even if it's a fiction story, you still want to maintain that sense of authenticity. And because, like, there are people like my dad who come from a militaristic military background and you go, his stripes are on backwards. I've checked out, you know, and that's a great point.

[Host]

So that happened once. Flag was on backwards.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Yeah. It's crazy. I mean, it's every time.

[Host]

Great point, great point.

[C. Neil Davenport]

So just, you know, my, my research has. Have become so much more efficient.

[Host]

Yeah.

[C. Neil Davenport]

As well. Like, for example, I got it. I got invited to pitch for Hallmark. You know, I got invited to develop six feature ideas for them. And the, the thing is, like, am I aware of Hallmark? Yes. Do I spend time with Hallmark in my free time? No. You know, I appreciate what they develop and they develop wonderful things.

[Host]

Yeah.

[C. Neil Davenport]

But. But prior to me developing these six ideas for them, I needed to understand their, their brand. So I scour their website, I read everything I could about Hallmark. I went to AI and, and did a deep dive into what their output was and what their output wasn't because they have strict stipulations about what they don't develop.

[Host]

Yeah.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Because the thing is, I'm not going to. I need to develop six producible ideas where I'm not wasting my time, their time, or embarrassing the person who got me in the room.

[Host]

Yeah. And they're. How long, like, are they Just a couple sentences for each one. Are you talking about page?

[C. Neil Davenport]

Yeah, like, like so a treatment which is about like a one to two page summary of an entire.

[Host]

And six of those.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Yeah.

[Host]

You have to go with six.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Yeah.

[Host]

Completely different.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Well yeah, they have to be completely separate. So they wanted six Christmas genre and six ROM com genre. And so I had to develop three different stories that pertain to Christmas.

[Host]

Yeah.

[C. Neil Davenport]

And three different ROM coms that were completely.

[Host]

And what's ROM com?

[C. Neil Davenport]

Romantic. Romantic comedy.

[Host]

Romantic comedy.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Okay, so interesting. Yeah. And. And so yeah, they were, they were interested in two of the six.

[Host]

That's awesome.

[C. Neil Davenport]

And I got a phone call to say that they passed on the, the Golf ROM com that I developed. Which is, which is. Okay.

[Host]

Yeah.

[C. Neil Davenport]

So now it's just down to one and like I'm. I'm praying that that one comes to fruition.

[Host]

Yeah.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Because it's a great story but you know, it going back to the whole AI conversation, I would not have been able to develop those ideas if I didn't have the accessibility of, of what AI was able to generate for me. I think, you know, I think at the end of the day you're going to see a two branch system where one branch is going to be hyper commercialism, you know, franchise heavy ip.

[Host]

Yeah.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Stuff that you see in the commercial cinema that is going to be a lack of heart but very entertaining and abuse AI. And then the other branch is going to be hyper independent where you're going to see very low budget yet heartfelt narratives on the screen that avoids AI at all costs. I think there's going to be a little disclosure card on there that says AI was not used in the production of this film.

[Host]

You know what's happening on social media, you have to disclose when you're using it.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Really?

[Host]

Yeah.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Oh, I didn't know that.

[Host]

Yeah. Some of the posts you have to put in there and I put one up that had content in this blew me away. I used chat GPT to generate a description. I posted it and got an alert back that it was chat GPT driven content. So you have to enable and I'm not a social media not. I won't even use the word expert. I'm the farthest from an expert. I know how to like put up a post. So I want to be very clear on that. But I know that there's like you prompt. I don't know, I could probably figure it out. But when you're making a post there's a button that says something to the tune of this post. Uses generated.

[C. Neil Davenport]

AI generated, that is. But that disclose it. That's crazy. I mean, it's a tool. Yeah, it's a tool.

[Host]

We got to separate reality, though. Like I, I say this on the show when I just got up to fill our coffee. I leave that in.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Yeah.

[Host]

I don't pull it out because I'm the person on the other side. I want real and raw. And if you got to sit and rehearse something 10 times to get it.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Sure.

[Host]

I'm saying in our world, not in the movie world, in the podcast world, I want absolute authentic. And if your phone goes off like yours did, it stays in it out because it shows that it's just real. Yeah. And that's me. I have control of my podcast and my content, and I like that kind of content. You don't want to know that you're you.

[C. Neil Davenport]

I think, I think that's a very, as an, as an amazing point you bring up. I was actually in a conversation with a producer recently where we were talking about what the effects of AI and, and what I mentioned to him was that there's going. I think there's going to be a shift in embracing the imperfect sense of, of being human. You know, we're going to start celebrating the scars and the mistakes and the failures and, and, and going, you know, you don't have to be beautiful to be loved kind of thing. You know, because we're, like you said, we want authenticity. So I think, I think we're going to start embracing that more and more. Embracing the flaw. But the problem with embracing the flaw is that you don't ever fix the flaw and don't become a better person. But that's just my opinion. Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, it's just one of the AI is just this super wonderful yet scary tool that is still in its infancy. And I mean, look, if it's either you get on the boat or it's going to leave you behind.

[Host]

Yeah.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Like there was this one story about Shrek, for example. You know, the people who were developing Shrek, which was one of the first util 3, 3 dimensional uses of animation prior to this, people who worked in animation were like all 2D and they were like super against 3D animation. Like, no 2D is going to be the thing. It's right. It's not going to change. Well, you know, after Shrek, the gates, you know, those people no longer had a job that, that did not embrace the new technology.

[Host]

Embrace. Yeah.

[C. Neil Davenport]

And so it has its proper applications. And I mean, my grandfather, who is A, you know, John Johns Hopkins alumni and. And medicine guru. He loves AI Yeah, because like the, the. He broke it down for me. Like the. If you're going about trying to fix a. Or cure illness, then the only way to do that through medicine is through trial and error. And if someone spent every waking moment of their life and never went to sleep trying to find the solution, they could spend their lifetime and still not find this, Find the cure. Whereas AI goes. Here it is.

[Host]

Here it is.

[C. Neil Davenport]

You know, this genetics.

[Host]

Yeah, yeah.

[C. Neil Davenport]

It's incredible.

[Host]

And that's great. And I agree with like the right application. The right application. When the goal of us being on film is for people to know and feel you. And like, we buy at the end of the day, we buy from people we like.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Yes.

[Host]

People buy people they like. So it's hard to get the true person when there's 100% scripting, 100% polish, everything's perfectly edited. Who really are you? Yeah, that's where my struggle is. Yes, absolutely. We use AI in incredible ways here. Like this three to one that I was telling you about before. So we do. Everything's done on one camera and have people go, how are you doing a three camera look alike on one camera?

[C. Neil Davenport]

Sure.

[Host]

You know, so anyway, that's. That's a separate episode that we can have.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Oh, yeah.

[Host]

I want to hit a. I want to hit something you told me about before. So you talked about these one to two mini. One to two minute mini films.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Oh, yeah. These verticals. Yeah, yeah. What's up? What's this world all about, Mike? It's pivoting, man.

[Host]

So this is pivoting. Dang.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Pivot or die.

[Host]

Pivot or die.

[C. Neil Davenport]

The thing that is paying, in my. In my experience, as of right now, the only two things that are paying creative people are corporate commercials for like Delta and. And Home Depot and all that.

[Host]

Yeah.

[C. Neil Davenport]

And like brand stuff and verticals. Like, I know so many actors here that are making money with verticals.

[Host]

So.

[C. Neil Davenport]

So yeah, verticals. Verticals are another name for. It is micro drama.

[Host]

Micro drama, yes.

[C. Neil Davenport]

And so a little bit of history is that these, though, they are becoming the hottest thing on the market for the States presently. They're nothing new. They were developed in China in 2020 and some individual, some incredibly wealthy people out there found a way to put in, you know, a significant but super, super low, a low amount of money to produce this content and get high returns from it. And so what a vertical is, it is a serialized series. It's like a television series.

[Host]

Okay.

[C. Neil Davenport]

That Is experience. It's filmed from a 16 by 9 ratio that you like your phone. And social content. Is social content. I describe it as social media. So soap opera for social media.

[Host]

Oh, that's awesome.

[C. Neil Davenport]

It's like. It's like the Guiding Light on your phone or Dallas on your phone. And, you know, each season is about 60 episodes, and each episode is about a minute and a half to two minutes in duration.

[Host]

What's one? What's a name that comes to mind? Where can I go find this?

[C. Neil Davenport]

Oh, so there's a few companies called. There's like the two that come to mind are Drama Box and Real Shorts. Okay. And they are. They are production companies that, that push out this content. And they're a brand, man. They know their audience. They know the. The exact content to produce that. That garners attention and established addiction.

[Host]

What is established addiction?

[C. Neil Davenport]

And frightening. Because what happens here is, you know, I'm. I'm gonna. The next person who comes to me and says, oh, you know, developing a vertical is. Is simple and not rocket science. I'm just gonna. I'm going to punch him square in the nose because it's. It is rocket science. There. There are as many rules to developing a vertical. Writing a vertical.

[Host]

Yeah.

[C. Neil Davenport]

As there is with developing a feature or an episode.

[Host]

Sure.

[C. Neil Davenport]

For example, one rule in which verticals follow because again, it's a time duration between a minute and a half to two minutes per episode, you have to hit a. The 3, 7, 21 rule, which means by. In every single episode. By second three, you have to show a visual hook. By second seven, you have to establish a clear thematic that is presented throughout the entire narrative. And by second 21, you have to establish a unit of emotional engagement to a point where it establishes addiction. So that by. Because what happens is you're given the first 10 episodes for free, and then because you're addicted and you have to. You want to know what's happening? You have to pot. You have to buy the remaining episodes. You have to buy the remaining 50 episodes or so. Yeah. And. And again, companies are making so much money from this, it's. It's insane.

[Host]

Is there a series you could point us to that you know about? Or like, I don't know that I've seen this, or maybe I'm seeing it and I don't even know that I'm seeing it.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Well, well, a lot of them are on these platforms, on these apps, but then when they're done. When, When a series is done with, On. On the, like a real short app, Then they send it to TikTok or they send it to YouTube shorts or something. So.

[Host]

So those are the apps. Drama Box and Real Shorts, the apps.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Yes.

[Host]

So that's nothing different than having Paramount plus or.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Correct. Yeah. It's just another streaming service, but on your phone, one to two minutes. Yep.

[Host]

Holy cow. I've been living in a cave.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Yeah, well, it's okay. It's all right.

[Host]

They got to be. Please tell me they're fairly new.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Yes, these are. But. But again, they're in the. In the context of. Of how they were built. They're nothing new, but they're new. They're new to the States, which is why they're blowing up.

[Host]

That's why they're blowing up.

[C. Neil Davenport]

And I mean, it's. It's insane if somebody's at home right.

[Host]

Now and they're like, this is my hope. They're like, this kid's cool. I want to work with them. Because that's how we buy. No matter if we want to agree with that or not. Sure. We. We buy like that. We get to a certain point where we establish these two things, right? Character and competence. And it takes a long time for one of them and a short time for the other. You identify one, and then as soon as somebody. The person drops the ball on the other, you're out. So that's like the psychology of what's happening. So character, competence. Your competence is in your IMDb, but your character bleeds through the camera, and at some point, somebody's either gonna go, not my guy, or, I only want to work with this guy.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Sure.

[Host]

So if somebody wants to work with you, what can they just do they just call you through your IMDb.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Well, they can. Yeah, certainly. You know the IMDb. I'm on LinkedIn, which is another great way.

[Host]

Under your name. Yes, Very important. And we'll make sure we note that it's seed, period. Next word. Neil. No, it's very, very critical to get that right. So, see. Neil Davenport. Okay, so your IMDb. Do you. Do you have any regret? The last question. Yeah, yeah, the last question. Is there anything you regret? Any content you put out? You were forced into some kind of ethical dilemma? You have a film out there and you're like, I wish my name was just not even on that dang thing. Don't give us the name of the film.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Yeah, yeah. You know, fortunately, that has not been. I don't have that because I. That's the best way to put this. I've dodged the bullet on projects like that.

[Host]

That's incredible.

[C. Neil Davenport]

And to make it full circle, predominantly due to getting scammed, you know, I've learned how to read the red flags and. And develop an exit plan and when. When things just start being. Getting hairy and. And the character, the. The. The details of certain people start coming out.

[Host]

Yeah.

[C. Neil Davenport]

It's like, okay, I'm out.

[Host]

This goes back to when you were 22.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Yes.

[Host]

So you're way ahead of your time.

[C. Neil Davenport]

I. Which is cool, I hope I am. It's a compliment.

[Host]

I mean, that's a compliment. Like, what a blessing that you got crushed when you were 22.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Yeah.

[Host]

And all that happened. And I. My hope is that comes loud and clear to everybody out there, because you got sons and daughters who are out there going, I'm getting in the film industry, and that's great. Or I'm getting into whatever it is, Music. This is all the same. It's all creative world. Get a lawyer quickly.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Yes.

[Host]

Because there's great con.

[C. Neil Davenport]

A trust. A trustworthy lawyer. I mean, I mean, at that. Because they. Again, they see a young person with stars in their eyes, and they go, I can take advantage of this person. And the thing is, that person doesn't. Doesn't know. I mean, unfortunately, this industry is just a trial by fire. Like. Oh, a quick story.

[Host]

Yeah.

[C. Neil Davenport]

I was on set, and I'll. I'll say his name. He's a good friend of mine. He's actually producing a feature that I wrote. But I was hired by Mark Crump, a Georgia producer, to work as an office PA on one of his sets.

[Host]

Okay.

[C. Neil Davenport]

And. And, And I. It was toward the end of the production of this particular set, of this. Of this project, and I. I messed up in a big way. I made a big mistake. Like, it was. It was. As soon as I say that, it's like, oh, what's the mistake? But I. I can't say, but I just know it was. It was something that I. It's fireable. And my heart was in the. It was. My heart was in the right place when I did this thing. I didn't know it was the wrong thing to do. But as soon as I did it, I. Look, I. I was like. It hit me. I was like, oh, I just messed up big time.

[Host]

Yeah.

[C. Neil Davenport]

And it quickly. You know, Mark is a line producer on this project, and it quickly got back to him, and first thing I did when I got to the office was, I know he's busy, but I went in, I shut the door, and I just straight up asked him. I was like, am I fired? I made this mistake. I. Am, I. Am I going to be let go?

[Host]

Yeah.

[C. Neil Davenport]

And he says, he just looked at me. He was very blunt, very straightforward. He's like, you realize you made the mistake? Yes. Do you realize why it was a mistake? Yes. Do you ever do it again? Hell no.

[Host]

Right?

[C. Neil Davenport]

All right, get back to work.

[Host]

That's incredible.

[C. Neil Davenport]

And after the film wrapped and we had some more time, he came up to me and he says, the reason why I didn't fire you, even though I should have, was because you owned up to it. You. You didn't blame it on someone else like everybody else does. You didn't have an excuse. You came to me and admitted fault and you went about fixing it right after. I am willing to work with that person. Even if your skill set doesn't match the job description. I want to work with those types of people because I can trust them and they'll do the job I need them to do.

[Host]

Yeah.

[C. Neil Davenport]

So, you know, own up to your. Yeah, sorry, I. I don't know if I can cuss on this, but the. So it's. It's very much great lesson, very much that you have to make the mistakes. You have to be willing to own up to the mistakes and say, I, yeah, I messed up.

[Host]

Yeah.

[C. Neil Davenport]

And I'm still learning. And I mean, for example, I met Dan Cathy the other day and at an event and he said, you know, if he were wearing his chick fil a name tag, it would say, Dan Cathy, CEO in training. I mean, the dude has had his company for like, I don't know, 50 years or so. He was born into it. And it says in training. I was like, what are you talking about? And he goes, he goes, I'm still learning, man. There's something new for me to apply to make my business better.

[Host]

That's so awesome.

[C. Neil Davenport]

I'm like, that's beautiful.

[Host]

I'm not surprised.

[C. Neil Davenport]

I'm a student at heart. I love it. And I'm like, yeah, okay, I'm in the right place. It's just I'm affiliated with the right people because it. Again, going back to your point, being authentic, not, not. Not bullshitting your way through.

[Host]

It's not always all good. You can't possibly always be all good.

[C. Neil Davenport]

It just can't possibly be. But you can be honest, man.

[Host]

That's a great lesson to people out there. And you were in. That wasn't just like, mom going, who spilled the milk?

[C. Neil Davenport]

I did.

[Host]

This is. You're in your. You're in a high stakes environment going, I made the Mistake.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Yep.

[Host]

Man. Thank you.

[C. Neil Davenport]

And if. And if you get fired, you get fired, you learn, you move on, and.

[Host]

You'Ll sleep great at night.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Yeah.

[Host]

Rather than having to rustle.

[C. Neil Davenport]

And very much so.

[Host]

Find out. And, man, this has been incredible. I learned so much. I can only imagine somebody out there who's, like, trying to get in or break into this business, or they're in it struggling and they can't, like, move forward. So I hope people reach out to you.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Can I share two pieces of advice that I find that I found was very beneficial to me? The first thing I would say. I hate giving sexy advice because it's not actionable.

[Host]

Yeah.

[C. Neil Davenport]

First piece of advice is get out of debt. If you're pursuing this thing, get out of the debt. Because debt is a dream crusher. Because this business is expensive. Or. Excuse me, this. Chasing your dream is expensive.

[Host]

Yeah.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Number two is make sure that. That your. Whoever you lean on for support. Like. Like economic or spiritual or moral support.

[Host]

Yeah.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Emotional support. Make sure your support team supports you. Because being an artist is already a career of doubt. And you don't need to question whether you're worthy to pursue this In. In knowing. Knowing. Like, I. I told you the story before, but I call my dad early on in my career, I called my dad and I hit a low point career wise and spiritually. And I. I lean on my dad, my mom, too, for a lot. And I said, are you disappointed in me? You know, this is not the career that you wanted me to go into you. But. But are you. I'm not hitting the points that I'm wanting to hit. Are you disappointed in me? And he said, neil, the moment I'm disappointed in you is the moment I hear you say you give up. So make sure your support team supports you.

[Host]

That's awesome. What a way to end. Yeah, that's great. I mean, that. What a way to go into the world every day. Like, literally. What a way to wake up and know that, like, just keep. Just keep going. I. I bet you're hearing that message all the time from dad. Whether you know it or you don't. It's in there.

[C. Neil Davenport]

That's cool.

[Host]

Thanks for coming up here. Thanks for reaching out to me, dude. Of course. I mean, I'm so glad you did.

[C. Neil Davenport]

I love your content. You know, I. I found your content and. And I was like, this guy, This. I like this guy. He. He puts out fantastic stuff, and it's like, it's. It's an honor to be on your show, so thank you.

[Host]

And you're gonna be. This episode is a perfect compliment to it, and I'm so glad we went behind the scenes because this content here is so good. Thanks, man. I appreciate you.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Yeah.

[Host]

Very much.

[C. Neil Davenport]

Pleasure.

[Host]

Yeah.