Televerde

Summary

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Podcast Summary: 10 Things You Should Know about Stakeholder Capitalism – Televerde (Oct 17, 2020)

Main Theme

This episode tells the powerful story of Kristen Swansinger, a formerly incarcerated woman whose life was transformed through her work with Televerde—a company operating call centers inside women's prisons. The episode uses Kristen’s journey to highlight the broader theme of stakeholder capitalism’s sixth competency: dismantling systemic discrimination in corporate hiring practices, particularly “banning the box” for formerly incarcerated individuals. Through Kristen’s voice and experiences, the show questions societal assumptions about second chances and spotlights the business and moral imperatives of inclusive hiring.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Kristen’s Background and Struggle with Recidivism

• Kristen opens up about her repeated incarceration and the sense of hopelessness that accompanied her return to prison. ([01:30])
  • She describes the reality of prison life, limited job options, and the overwhelming impact of a life-changing letter from her daughter:
    • “I just knew at that point that my daughter needed me and I needed to make changes. I didn’t want my daughter to go down my route.” (Kristen, [03:36])

2. Discovery and Application to Televerde

• Incarcerated women can only access menial and low-wage jobs (e.g., kitchen, laundry) unless they join Televerde.
• Televerde is described as the “posh of jobs in prison”—offering meaningful skills, empowerment, and a pathway to growth. ([05:15])
  • Applying to Televerde is competitive; it requires a clean disciplinary record, a diploma or GED, and a persuasive application.
  • Emotional moment: Kristen recalls seeing her name on the interview list and crying, recognizing her first step towards reuniting with her kids. ([08:17])

3. Training and Televerde’s Transformative Workplace

• Intense onboarding—12-hour training days condensed into 2 weeks.
• Televerde’s culture: Empowerment, trust, and real-world experience with clients such as Republic Services and Pulse Secure.
  • Kristen shares her imposter syndrome and fear when moved to the more technically demanding Pulse Secure account ([10:53]):
    • “I really thought that the company itself was setting me up to fail. I had no confidence in myself.”
• Supportive leadership: A pivotal conversation with a manager, Mr. Doyle, restores her confidence: - “Swanee, we didn’t choose you because we think you’re gonna fail. We know you could do it. We provide you with the tools to succeed and grow. You can do it or we just really wouldn’t have chosen you.” (Mr. Doyle, [11:40])

4. Realizing Self-Worth and Beyond

• Kristen finds deep self-worth, stating, “I realized who I was and my self-worth.” ([12:50])
• She is selected to share her story (in absentia, due to incarceration) at the Conscious Capitalism Conference, centering the importance of "banning the box"—removing the felony disclosure requirement on job applications.
  • She discusses the hopelessness that comes from always checking the “felony box” and never being given a chance. ([13:20])
  • “Because I say yes, you don’t give me the opportunity to meet me and to hear my story or ask, why do I have a felony? What am I going to do to ensure that I’m never going to have a felony again?” (Kristen, [13:57])

5. Reintegration and Reuniting Family

• Upon release, with Televerde’s ongoing support, Kristen moves to Ohio for a fresh start. She successfully transitions to working at Pulse Secure remotely and is amazed at receiving full benefits.
  • “I’m sitting here working for a company that’s a multimillion dollar company. And then I filled out a benefit package. The company actually pays for your benefits. You know, I wasn’t used to that, so I was like, this is amazing.” (Kristen, [15:12])
• Emotional reconnection: Kristen reunites with her daughter after 17 years, exemplifying hope and the multi-generational impact of second chances. ([16:15])

6. The Challenge to Business Leaders

• Kristen urges leaders to challenge their assumptions, keep open minds, and give second chances:
  • “Don’t judge a book by its cover. Look at the application that does say felon. Keep an open mind. Give people opportunities. Because I can guarantee you, if you were to give me a chance, I would definitely take your company to levels that you never knew that I could actually do.” (Kristen, [17:54])
• Hosts Amanda and Nathan contextualize “the box” and explain that all companies are complicit in systemic discrimination—yet they have the power to change this dynamic. ([18:15]–[18:44])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I needed to find a job that was going to support me. You could work in the kitchen, work in the laundry…you’re going to get 10 cents an hour…It barely covers your hygiene.” (Kristen, [04:18])
• “Televerde is like the posh of jobs in prison. It’s all about success…proving to yourself that you can make goals and you can achieve those goals.” (Kristen, [05:25])
• “I realized that these people are just here to help…They’re not going to hold my hand necessarily, but they’re going to give me everything that I need and it’s my choice.” (Kristen, [12:46])
• “The lesson that I think that business leaders should definitely learn from my story is: Don’t judge a book by its cover…If you were to give me a chance, I would definitely take your company to levels that you never knew.” (Kristen, [17:54])

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment Description | |-----------|----------------------------------------------------| | 00:06 | Setting up the high-stakes conference storytelling | | 01:12 | Kristen Swansinger’s introduction | | 01:30 | Kristen’s background and prison experience | | 05:15 | Televerde opportunity and intense application | | 08:17 | Getting interviewed and her emotional reaction | | 10:53 | Transitioning to challenging work with Pulse Secure | | 11:40 | Mr. Doyle’s encouragement and pivotal moment | | 12:46 | Gaining self-worth and confidence | | 13:20 | The challenge of “banning the box” | | 15:12 | Transition to full employment and benefits | | 16:15 | Reunion with her daughter after 17 years | | 17:54 | Kristen’s closing advice to business leaders | | 18:15 | Hosts contextualize systemic discrimination |

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Tone

The episode is deeply human, candid, and hopeful. Kristen’s voice is authentic, vulnerable, and resilient, while the hosts maintain an empathetic and passionate tone, weaving Kristen’s individual experience into the broader narrative of stakeholder capitalism and systemic change.

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Conclusion

This episode of “10 Things You Should Know about Stakeholder Capitalism” brings to life the stakes and impact of inclusive hiring through Kristen’s firsthand experience. It urges listeners—especially business leaders—to recognize the untapped potential in those routinely excluded by the status quo, and to see “banning the box” not just as a moral imperative, but as a smart business strategy fully aligned with stakeholder capitalism’s highest ideals.

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Transcript

[A]

They were both nervous, but they put on a good face. What was about to happen was a high stakes experiment for both of them. More than 600 people from all over the world had gathered in the ballroom of the Sheridan grand in the mountains south of Phoenix.

[B]

It was the end of the first day of the Conscious Capitalism Annual conference and people were hungry for dinner and the evening program they had been promised would be revelatory. Five stools sat on precise marks on the empty elevated stage at the front of the room. But when the entrees were served and the lights went down, only four people stepped into the spotlight. I'm Nathan Havey.

[A]

And I'm Amanda Kathryn Roman. And that night was the first time that Nathan and I had collaborated on a storytelling project. I had produced the conference and brought Nathan in to prepare and host this session. The person who was missing from the panel was Kristen Swansinger, and she couldn't join us that night because she was still incarcerated at the Perryville Women's Prison about an hour away.

[B]

In this episode, you'll meet Kristen Swansinger and she will share her story for only the second time in her life. And the challenge she gives us at the end of it is the sixth thing you should know about stakeholder capitalism.

[C]

When I was released the first time, there was something deep inside of me that said I'm not ready. I wasn't ready to make better choices. I went back in for what we call paper crimes, taking identity of another. And it was actually my first drug crime, possession of a narcotic. I remember being extremely angry and disappointed at myself. I let myself down. I let my family down. I wasn't scared because I had already did six years prior to that. So Perryville is a five prison complex in Arizona. The unit that I was on, it's like a huge airplane hangar. Within this airplane hangar is dorms that seat about 120 women. Bunk by bunk or cube by cube. We wear orange, orange jumpsuits. The way the mail is delivered is the officer brings it around and if you're not at your cube, they just put it inside of your locker. Came in, opened up my locker to get ready for a shower. And when I had opened the locker, the letter had fallen to the ground. It had scratches all over. Was actually sent to an address that was for one of the jail. It wasn't even addressed to me originally. It was meant to be to get to me. And when I opened up the letter, I just remember the first few sentences saying, hi, my name is Kylie Hamilton. I don't know if you know me, but I am your daughter. And as I proceed to read, I just hear how bad she's doing. Talking about trying to commit suicide, her drug abuse issues with her father. My daughter right there and then just like totally changed my life. Everything that she was describing to me was everything that I had gone through. Not knowing who I was, not wanting to be anybody. I just knew at that point that my daughter needed me and I needed to make changes. I didn't want my daughter to go down my route. I needed to find a job that was going to support me. You could work in the kitchen, work in the laundry rooms, work on the yard breaking rocks. You're going to work your butt off. You're going to get 10 cents an hour at four, eight hours a day. It barely covers your hygiene pads, tampons, they're not free. It costs a lot to even try to take care of yourself. From my previous prison term, I had known about televerde. Televerde is like the posh of jobs in prison. It's all about success. It's all about becoming empowered. And it's actually all about proving to yourself that you can make goals and you can achieve those goals. And I knew that was the choice that I needed to make at that point in my life. I knew the process for applying to Televerde was actually really hard and stressful. You needed to ensure that you had no disciplinary actions on your file, that either your high school diploma or your GED was on file. And then they're also asking you to provide a quick paragraph as to why would you want to work for Televerde. And that paragraph itself really has to be valid for them to even accept you for an interview. They get hundreds of applicants every single time. Once they identify, like how many interviewees they want to accept, they'll send the list back over and the list will be posted into each dorm. When I seen my name on the list, I cried. I mean, this is just an interview opportunity. It's about a 3/4 of a mile walk to the Televerde building. It is blazing hot Arizona weather with no trees around you, sand all the way around you. You're walking on a concrete road that is not straight, it's winding. There are no officers around you. The whole Televerde structure is kind of trusting. And then when you walk up to the Televerde building, I'm not even kidding when I say it looks like a tuna cap. It's a metal building that has four walls and you can't even believe that there's anything even inside of it at all. When you open those doors, it's cube by cube of about 80 women. Televerde is basically a call center inside of a prison. Each lady is sitting in orange at a cubicle. They have a computer in front of them, and they have a soft phone. The ladies just are ready to change their lives. That's what the whole building's about. When you're going in for your interviews, they put you over into the conference room on the left, and there's big open windows, and all the girls are looking at you. Oh, look, those are the ones that are coming in to apply for the new jobs, you know, And a couple of girls actually came in there and they told their stories how this job isn't just about succeeding in a working environment, but it's also about succeeding in your personal environment. I just remember one of the girls saying that the first time that she had gotten out, she had gotten into some trouble. And one of the televerde managers went to some of her court sessions to try to help express what a good person that she could be. I just needed somebody to be on my side. So when I was having my interview, they were asking me, why do I want to work for Televerde? And literally, what can I bring to the table? I knew that I could bring drive and dedication, commitment. I've never been in sales. I never worked in call centers, but I did have customer service experience. I had one job that was at McDonald's, and I did become a manager, but that was at the age of 18. I'm 42 now. They don't tell you anything at the end of the interview. They just say, okay, well, we'll let you know in a few days if you're hired or not. So you go back to the yard and you're waiting around, and I knew the girl that was the trainer, and I would chase her around, and I'm like, did they say anything? Did they say anything? So when you walk into your building to go into your bed, you see a list. You know, it's an important list. My gosh, when my name was on it, I just remember crying because I knew that was my first step to seeing my kids. My first day with Televerde. They put you back into the office, and you're open to having coffee. You're open to having water, which is like, oh, my gosh, I get free coffee. I get free water. And it's good coffee, too. It's not this prison coffee. And they put a book in Front of you. This book is your training book. Typically it takes about four to six weeks. They needed us out on the floor within two weeks. So we did 12 hour days, five days a week. Almost immediately I was put on to Republic Services, the waste and recycling company. I'm talking trash to these people, talking about their waste and recycling goals. There's these other girls talking about it network security and talking about data center and securing access and all these resources. And I'm like, oh my gosh, these people are smart back there. So I was working on Republic Services for about six months and I was called into the office with the other girls. It was three managers in there. They said, we have some bad news for you. Unfortunately, Republic Services is no longer account of ours. I thought it was my fault. Republic Services had been with Televerde for seven years and I had been on the account for six months. So I was like, what did I do wrong? They also decided to tell me that I'm going on Pulse Secure, which is these girls that are talking very smart. My mouth dropped. I was very scared, very nervous because I really didn't think that I can ever talk. Like these girls really thought that the company itself was setting me up to fail. I had no confidence in myself. So I went to Mr. Doyle and I cried. I asked him to please remove me off the campaign and give this opportunity to somebody else. He says to me, swanee, let's go outside and smoke. He says, swanee, we didn't choose you because we think you're gonna fail. We know you could do it. We provide you with the tools to succeed and grow. You can do it or we just really wouldn't have chosen you. And I did. Didn't even take me two months. I was having great conversations with CIOs and C levels and I couldn't believe how much I had grown. I never really had any self worth. I didn't think I could be anybody. My life growing up wasn't really too easy. I didn't have too many people in my backpack that would be able to help me out. When I realized that these people are just here to help and these people are not going to hold my hand necessarily, but they're going to give me everything that I need and it's my choice to be able to do it, I realized who I was and my self worth. So Michelle had pinged me through Skype and she said, hey, got a question for you. Do you have a few minutes for a phone call? So we're sitting there talking and she Tells me about the conscious capitalism opportunity. And she tells me how they're inviting some people throughout Televerde to tell the story. I was like, oh, that's cool. Not even putting two and two together. She says, well, would you like to tell your story? And I was like, what story? You know, I didn't really think that I had a story. She had told me. We'd really like to try to emphasize banning the box. That's a very sensitive subject for all of us who are inside the. When I go to apply for a job, I look on the application that says, do you have a felony? Honestly, you have to say yes. When you see the application, you just throw it away. Because I say yes, you don't give me the opportunity to meet me and to hear my story or to ask, why do I have a felony? What am I going to do to ensure that I'm never going to have a felony again? To ask me about my experiences in prison? You don't want to find out a little bit more about Televerde and how it made me empowered to be able to actually fill out this application. That's the fear. She goes, we really want to show people that banning the box is one of the most important choices that they need to make as a leader in a business to help other people grow. I didn't think anything about my story being able to accomplish that. I'm inside a prison and I can't leave the walls. So they had to record me inside. I didn't even get to see the conference. One of the ladies had sent me a video of everybody doing a standing ovation. I was getting out a month later. I was scared. In the back of my mind, I'm sitting here going, I'm flying to Ohio in two days to go live with my dad. And although I knew I had a job with Televerde, I had so much anxiety the day I was released, I didn't get out until 4 o'. Clock. I wanted to see my best friend and I wanted to get something to eat. And my best friend was amazing because she had gone through the same experience and actually worked for Televerde when she had been released. So she gave me so much comfort in knowing that it was all gonna be okay. How may I help you? Five guys. That's where I went. I wanted a big, juicy burger and I ate that whole burger. I made the choice to move to Ohio because I needed to make different decisions. I knew too many people in Phoenix, so I figured, I'll just force myself to get Rid of those people and go to Ohio. I haven't been with my dad in a very long time anyways, so when I landed in Ohio, we came home, he showed me my room, we painted my room. I got to pick my own colors and started getting ready to fix my life. Two weeks later, when I start working, I'm working from home. I have a computer, and I put myself into a room where. Where nobody else was at. We have a bunch of dogs. So I'm like, oh, no barking. This is very important. I wasn't going to stop proving to my team that I could do it. Then they told me that they were going to hire me directly on, and I was like, whoa, I can't believe this. I'm going directly to Pulse Secure. I'm sitting here working for a company that's a multimillion dollar company. And then I filled out a benefit package. The company actually pays for your benefits. You know, I wasn't used to that, so I was like, this is amazing. I have been doing this now with Pulsicare ever since April. Through all of the ups and downs that I have gone through, I would never trade this for the world ever. So in July last year, I'm sitting on Facebook and it has a friend request, and it says Kylie Hamilton. And I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Kylie Hamilton's my daughter's name. I accepted it right away. I looked at it and it had a phone number. So I called her and she answered right away. And I said, kylie, it's Chris, your mom. And we talked for hours. We bawled. You know, she had troubles. Nobody's perfect. Going through the struggles to try to get clean is never easy, especially when you don't have somebody in your backpack. She had asked me if she can come live with me. She wanted to get better. I haven't seen her in 17 years. I paid for the bus tickets and everything, and my dad and I had gone to pick her up from the bus. The second my daughter came off the bus, I knew who it was, and we hugged and we hugged. Now she's working to get a job, and I'll always be there. The lesson that I think that business leaders should definitely learn from my story is don't judge a book by its cover. Look at the application that does say felon. Keep an open mind. Give people opportunities. Because I can guarantee you, if you were to give me a chance, I would definitely take your company to levels that you never knew that I could actually do.

[A]

The box Kristin referred to is just one example of the ways in which our companies are complicit in many forms of systemic discrimination.

[B]

All of our companies are complicit in reinforcing systems of discrimination that deny some people a first chance, let alone a second one. And if we choose, our companies can also be very effective at dismantling those same systems of discrimination.

[A]

Like all of the other things you should know about stakeholder Capitalism, we mention this not only because getting businesses to embrace this idea en masse would do a lot to advance social justice and equity in our society, but also because doing so will give your company access to a dedicated and energetic talent pool for which there is, at the moment, little competition.

[B]

Sure, you might say, but how many Kristens are there? Well, what if we told you that they are all Kristens? Our next two episodes feature stories of business leaders who made very big bets on that assumption, and in so doing, they learned important things that you should know about stakeholder Capitalism. Here's what's coming in episode seven.

[C]

I mean, what does anyone think when they hear about starting a company ran by active gang members? Right? I mean, this could be possible, but is it practical? I understand that there's a mission to it, but can it make money? I thought it was crazy, but I also thought that it was quite interesting that someone was willing to do something about something that so many people talked about.

[A]

10 things you should know about Stakeholder Capitalism is a project of the Institute for Corporate Transformation.

[B]

This episode was edited by Nathan Church and produced by Habe Pro Cinema and Featured music from Mr. MU Onokan and Young Oceans.

[A]

10 things you should know about stakeholder Capitalism is written and directed by Nathan Heavey.

[B]

If you want to see Kristen's story from the Conscious Capitalism Conference and the other stories that were told on stage that night, we've got video from the conference as well as links to learn more about Televerde on our page for episode six at stakeholdercapitalism Biz.

[A]

And while you're there, sign up to get an email when episode seven is released. Or if you prefer, subscribe to 10 things you should know about Stakeholder Capitalism. Wherever you get your podcasts.