← 13th Juror Podcast
13th Juror Podcast
The Prosecution of Jamie Snow
00:32:07
Easter Sunday, 1991. Bill Little is found shot behind the counter of a Bloomington gas station, and the case stalls without physical evidence. Years later, prosecutors build their case against Jamie Snow through eyewitness accounts, statements, and reported conversations. Do those pieces form a clear picture or something harder to define?
Loading summary
Transcript7 lines
- [00:00]
A
This podcast is sponsored by Talkspace. November is Men's Health Awareness Month, so Talkspace wants guys to know that being prepared for life's biggest challenges and opportunities means prioritizing mental health too. Talkspace can help you go beyond fine tuned workouts, supplements and productivity hacks. Talkspace can help you fine tune your inner life so you can succeed in being the best version of yourself in any situation. And with Talkspace you can get therapy from anywhere and on your time. You you can even text your therapist between sessions. If you're depressed, stressed, struggling with a relationship, or just need a little extra one on one support, Talkspace is here for you. Plus Talkspace takes most insurance and most insured members have a zero dollar copay. Men's Health Awareness Month is the perfect time to reach out to TalkSpace. Now get $80 off your first month with promo code space80 when you go to talkspace.com match with a licensed therapist today at talkspace.com and save $80 with code space80@talkspace.com that's talkspace.com, promo code space80.
- [01:04]
B
It was Easter Sunday, 1991. 18 year old bill Little had finished his dinner with his family before heading to his 3pm shift at the Clark Gas Station in Bloomington, Illinois. Sundays at the station were usually quiet, but on Easter the streets were even emptier. As the hours passed, Bill worked the register alone, just like he always did on slow shifts. Then at 8:15pm a silent alarm was triggered inside the store and police were dispatched immediately. An officer pulled up nearby and approached the station door. He stepped inside and looked around and that's when he saw a single tennis shoe sticking out from behind the counter. He took another step closer and found Bill Little lying motionless on the floor. The register was open and the cash drawer was missing. 18 year old bill Little, working a quiet holiday shift, had been shot and killed for less than $93 in cash. In the early 90s. There wasn't CCTV at every corner store and gas station, so finding a suspect could often be more difficult. Detectives questioned men in the area with known criminal records, but without any physical evidence to go on. They were at a standstill and the investigation went cold. But more than eight years after the murder, an arrest was made 25 year old James Snow. But the case against Snow wouldn't be built on DNA, fingerprints or physical evidence. It would be built on people, conversations, statements and behavior that the prosecution claimed linked Snow to this crime. This is a case that forces us to ask, how much weight do you give witness testimony when there's no physical evidence to back it up? How reliable is eyewitness memory years after the fact? And how many people have to say the same thing before it becomes the truth? We're going to take a closer look at the case against Jamie Snow. We'll discover what happens when missing context comes to light. Questions are raised about withheld evidence and a series of issues emerge that could have changed everything. The post trial revelations in this case will force you to question everything you thought you knew. The prosecution says all the voices point in one direction. The defense says those voices can't be trusted, but it's the jurors who have the final say. This is the 13th juror podcast where we break down real court cases and put you in the juror's seat. Two sides, the same evidence. You decide what to believe. I'm your host, Brandi Churchwell. Today's episode is Illinois vs. James Snow, Part 1. The prosecution. To understand how this case unfolded, we first have to take a look at the undisputed facts, the details and circumstances surrounding the violent and senseless murder of Bill Little. Bill's shift at Clark's gas station began at 3pm on March 31, 1991. It was Easter Sunday and business was slow. At 8:05pm the register showed a transaction for a can of soda and a pack of cigarettes. Over the next Several minutes at 8:06, 8:12 and 8:15, the register recorded three no sales, meaning the cash drawer was opened, but no purchase was recorded around the time of that final no sale. At 8:15pm the silent alarm button under the counter was pressed, alerting Bloomington PD by 8:18pm Officer Jeff Pillo was on patrol when he got the call. He drove to the gas station and parked a short distance away. Within seconds, another officer, Sergeant Paul Williams, arrived and positioned himself across the street, watching the front of the building. There was just one car in the parking lot at the time. Officer Pilo called in the plates and described a man putting air in his tires. He was later identified as Danny Martinez, who lived next door to Clark's. After finishing with his tires, Martinez approached the gas station entrance but turned to leave before reaching the door. Inside, Bill Little was already dead. After discovering his body behind the counter, officers confirmed what they had he had been shot twice in the chest. According to the autopsy, both shots were fired from two or more feet away. The stool behind the counter was turned over and the cash register drawer was open, but nothing else seemed disturbed or out of place. Investigators processed the scene. They collected fingerprints and lifted shoe impressions from the floor. They documented everything they could find, but in the end, nothing tied any one person to the crime. For years the case sat without answers, but eventually investigators would circle back to this case and when they did, the path that led them to a suspect would wouldn't come from the crime scene. It would come from eyewitness testimony and sources they said were close to Jamie Snow, according to the evidence and testimony they presented. This is the prosecution story.
- [06:48]
A
This podcast is sponsored by Talkspace. November is Men's Health Awareness Month, so Talkspace wants guys to know that being prepared for life's biggest challenges and opportunities means prioritizing mental health too. Talkspace can help you go beyond fine tuned workouts, supplements and productivity hacks. Talkspace can help you fine tune your inner life so you can succeed in being the best version of yourself in any situation. And with Talkspace you can get therapy from anywhere and on your time. You can even text your therapist between sessions. If you're depressed, stressed, struggling with a relationship, or just need a little extra one on one support, Talkspace is here for you. Plus, Talkspace takes most insurance and most insured members have a zero dollar copay. Men's Health Awareness Month is the perfect time to reach out to TalkSpace now. Get $80 off your first month with promo code space80 when you go to talkspace.com match with a licensed therapist today at talkspace.com and save $80 with code space80@talkspace.com that's talkspace.com promo code space80.
- [07:54]
B
Without any physical evidence to immediately guide them, investigators turned to the people who were at or around Clark's gas station that night. They began canvassing the area looking for anyone who may have seen something. And that search started with Danny Martinez. On the night of March 31, 1991, Danny Martinez lived right next door to Clark's gas station. He had just returned home with his wife and daughter after spending Easter with his wife's parents. After unloading the car and dropping off his family, Martinez decided to drive over to the gas station to grab a few drinks and put air in a leaky tire. He pulled into the lot and parked near the air pump, leaving his car running as he filled the tires. While he stood there, he heard two loud bangs. the time, he didn't think much of it. He assumed it might have been his car backfiring. But prosecutors told the jury that those sounds were actually the gunshots being fired inside the store. Martinez took the stand and told the jury that while putting air in his tires. He looked up and saw a man exiting the store, walking out backwards. Martinez walked toward the entrance of the store to grab some drinks and for a brief moment, just a couple of seconds, he and the man came face to face, only a few feet apart. Martinez said they both looked surprised, but what stuck with him were the man's eyes. He described them as wide, almost like he had been up all night. Martinez described him as about 5 foot 7 or 5 foot 8, wearing a tan colored jacket and a ball cap. He had on jeans, shoulder length brownish colored hair and the man had his hands in his pockets but looked like he was carrying something under his jacket. The man then turned and walked away, heading north along the side of the building toward an alley. And just like that, he was gone. The encounter was brief, but Martinez said he would never forget the man's eyes. Martinez worked with investigators to develop a composite sketch. He was also shown some mug shots of people from the area who had known criminal records that may be suspects, but he was unable to identify anybody from the photos as the person he had just seen. Martinez wasn't the only one watching that night though. Across the street, two doors down, a 14 year old boy named Carlos Luna was in his bedroom with his nephew Juan. When he looked out the window toward the gas station, he testified that he was trying to see if a family member who was also an attendant there was working. If she was, he had planned to go over there and get some candy. As he looked outside, Luna saw a man walking out of the gas station. Luna described him exiting the station and following the same path Martinez described. Luna only saw the man for about five seconds before losing sight of him, but he described him as a white male, around 5 foot 11, wearing a black baseball cap, a coat, blue jeans and white sneakers. He said it looked like he had something under his coat and though he didn't actually see the object, he wondered if it was the cash tray from the register. He even joked to his nephew that the man might have just robbed the gas station. It wasn't until he saw flashing lights and heard sirens that he realized something was wrong and went to speak with police about what he saw. The third eyewitness was a customer at Clark's named Gerardo Gutierrez. He said that around 8pm he put $3 worth of gas in his car, then went inside to pay. Now this might sound strange, but remember, it's 1991. Most gas stations didn't have an option to pay at the pump. And while $3 won't even get you half a gallon of gas. In some states today, it would have gone a lot further back then. When Gutierrez walked into the store, he saw Bill Little behind the counter and another man standing there in front of Bill. He described the man as acting suspicious, standing with his back turned, almost like he didn't want to be seen. And he said Bill appeared nervous. His hands were shaking and he even dropped some of the coins while taking the payment. And just like Carlos Luna, Gutierrez went on with his night as normal until he drove past the gas station later and saw police activity. He gave a description of the man he saw with shoulder length blondish brown hair, a jacket, an earring and what he described as a fresh scar on his chin. Investigators used that description to create a composite sketch which was later published in the newspaper along with a reward for information. In the weeks leading up to Bill Little's murder, there had been a string of armed robberies in the area. None of them had turned deadly, but they were similar enough that investigators started looking at whether they could be connected. One of these robberies had taken place just over a month before the shooting at Clark's. Police began pulling in possible suspects both for that robbery and for Bill Little's murder. They questioned several individuals, including multiple men with prior criminal histories in the area. One of Those men was 25 year old Bloomington local Jamie Snow. Jamie was already known to law enforcement. He had a history of run ins with the law dating back to his teenage years, including burglary and theft related offenses. After the murder, lead detective Charlie Crow brought Jamie in for questioning. But Jamie denied having anything to do with what happened at Clark's gas station. Prosecutors argued that even though Jamie denied any involvement, his actions after the murder raised serious red flags. They said that shortly after Bill Little was killed, Jamie left Bloomington and went to stay with his sister in Webster Groves, Missouri. But police tracked him down quickly. On April 24, less than four weeks after the murder, officers went to his sister's house with a warrant for the robbery that had happened a month before. When they arrived, Jamie's sister answered the door. Inside the house, Jamie had already seen police pull up and instead of coming forward, he hid in the attic, burying himself under insulation. His sister told officers she didn't know where he was. It took more than five hours before police finally located him and took him into custody. Both Jamie and his sister were told he was being arrested on the earlier robbery warrant, but that he was also a suspect in Bill Little's murder and would be questioned about that. Jamie's suspicious actions didn't Stop there though. Which continued to direct prosecutors his way. During the drive back to Bloomington from Missouri, they said Jamie appeared nervous and repeatedly brought up the murder. According to investigators, he kept circling back to the same question, what would happen if he had information about the case? They interpreted that as Jamie testing the waters, trying to see if he could make a deal. The officers told him they wouldn't discuss anything until they got back to the station. Once they arrived, Jamie was interviewed by a Bloomington detective and an agent with the Illinois State Police. Investigators said that Jamie's mood seemed to be swinging a great deal during the interview, and when the murder was brought up, he became agitated, more animated, and seemed to be breathing faster. They said he asked again about possible deals, but when they told him no promises could be made, he responded that he couldn't say anything without incriminating himself and he was worried about what would happen to him if he did. Two months later, in June of 1991, detectives set up an in person lineup at the jail to see if any witnesses could identify the person seen at Clark's the night of the murder. Jamie was brought in for that lineup, but he refused to participate. Prosecutors said he appeared visibly nervous and was shaking as he resisted. Detectives told him he didn't have a choice and if he refused, they would physically take him inside. When officers moved to bring him in, Jamie ultimately complied, but according to the state, he remained visibly shaken. On the other side of the glass, in a dimly lit viewing room, was 14 year old Carlos Luna, the boy who lived across from the gas station. Luna watched as each person in the lineup stepped forward. When it was over, he asked to see one person again, Jamie Snow. After taking another look, Luna told detectives he believed that was the man that he saw coming out of the station. Luna's identification of Jamie was important for detectives who already believed he was responsible. But even then it wasn't definitive. Luna couldn't say with complete certainty that Jamie was the man he saw that night. And without concrete physical evidence tying Jamie to the crime, the case stalled. Jamie was released and moved to St. Petersburg, Florida with his wife and children shortly after, trying to start over and get away from the suspicion that still lingered around him. Jamie's armed robbery charges tied to the earlier gas station robbery case were eventually dropped. But In October of 1994, Jamie was convicted of obstruction of justice in connection with that investigation. That December, he was sentenced to the Illinois Department of Corrections for a three and a half year sentence. He served his time and was released from prison in 1997. That's when he and his family returned to Florida and Jamie began work in the tree service industry. For a time, life seemed stable for Jamie. He later described those years in Florida as the good life, and it appeared that the murder of Bill Little was no longer looming over him. But behind the scenes, things were shifting. While the case had gone quiet on the outside, inside prison walls, a different kind of evidence was beginning to take shape. One conversation at a.
- [17:48]
A
This podcast is sponsored by Talkspace. November is Men's Health Awareness Month, so Talkspace wants guys to know that being prepared for life's biggest challenges and opportunities means prioritizing mental health too. Talkspace can help you go beyond fine tuned workouts, supplements and productivity hacks. Talkspace can help you fine tune your inner life so you can succeed in being the best version of yourself in any situation. And with Talkspace you can get therapy from anywhere and on your time. You can even text your therapist between sessions. If you're depressed, stressed, struggling with a relationship, or just need a little extra one on one support, Talkspace is here for you. Plus, Talkspace takes most insurance and most insured members have a zero dollar copay. Men's Health Awareness Month is the perfect time to reach out to TalkSpace. Now. Get $80 off your first month with promo code SPACE80 when you go to Talkspace.com match with a licensed therapist today at Talkspace.com and save $80 with code SPACE80@Talkspace.com that's Talkspace.com, promo code SPACE80.
- [18:55]
B
Before calling their next witnesses, prosecutors addressed something they knew the jury might already be thinking. Jailhouse informants are not always the most reliable sources. They acknowledge that many of the people about to take the stand had long criminal histories. Some were incarcerated, some had lied before. These were not by any stretch of the imagination, perfect witnesses. But the state's argument was that they didn't choose these people. Jamie Snow did. These were the people he associated with, the people he talked to, the people he trusted enough to speak freely. Around the state walked the jury through a long line of witnesses, many of whom had never met each other, who all told similar stories. They said Jamie admitted to being involved in the robbery at Clark's gas station and to shooting Bill Little. The prosecution argued that when that many independent voices are saying the same thing, it stops being coincidence and starts becoming corroboration not just of each other, but also of what Carlos Luna said he saw that night and what those witnesses would say would become the backbone of the state's case. It all started a few weeks before the murder when, according to the prosecution, Jamie had already begun casing the area. Timothy Powell, who was connected to Jamie through family, told the jury about one night when he was driving with Jamie, Jamie's wife Tammy, and his own sister Susan. They eventually drove to a Freedom gas station in Bloomington when Powell said Jamie, who had been drinking, made a comment about robbing the station but never followed through on those comments. That night, after they left Freedom gas station, Powell said Jamie directed him to go to the Clark gas station, the same one where Bill Little would later be killed. Powell said Jamie went inside Clark's briefly came back out and got back in the car, but he never saw anything in Jamie's hands. Another witness, Karen Strong, described seeing Jamie on Easter Sunday, the night of the murder. She said she was home with her boyfriend, Mark McCowan, after returning from Easter dinner. McCowan left the house sometime between 5 and 7pm and didn't come back until sometime between 10pm and midnight. When he returned, Jamie Snow was with him. According to Karen, McGowan asked if Jamie could stay there for a few days, but she said no and the two of them left. Then Randy Howard was called to the stand. Howard had known Jamie for years and considered him a close friend. He told the jury that within 24 hours of the murder, Jamie picked him up from the bus station and almost immediately Jamie started talking. According to Howard, Jamie had told him that he had tried to rob the gas station, that the attendant, Bill Little, recognized him and that his gun went off during the encounter. He also said he was worried someone might have seen him. But when Howard reacted to what he was saying, Jamie quickly tried to walk it back, claiming that he was just kidding. Still, Howard said the moment didn't feel like a joke. He described Jamie as frantic, upset and acting like his life was falling apart. Over the next few days, prosecutors said Jamie continued to talk about his role in the robbery and death of Bill Little. One witness named Ed Palumbo took the stand and said that just days after the shooting, he ran into Jamie while driving with his girlfriend. Jamie started talking to them and according to Palumbo, Jamie asked if he had seen anything about him in the newspaper and allegedly told him to look it up. He then said something like, quote, boom, boom, gun goes off, kid dies. Shannon Schmidt, Wallace, Palumbo's girlfriend at the time, corroborated his story, telling the jury that she heard parts of that conversation and that Palumbo had filled her in on the rest, telling her what Jamie had said. Palumbo said he saw Jamie again a few weeks later and confronted him, telling him it was stupid to be talking like that in front of other people. According to Palumbo, Jamie didn't deny it. Instead, he said he trusted the people he was with. Palumbo claimed that he then asked Jamie about the gun and Jamie told him he had, quote, taken care of it. Palumbo testified that Jamie said he shot Bill Little because the kid was a smartass. He said that it wasn't as hard as Jamie thought it would be and that he didn't get that much money from it. Another witness the state relied on was Bill Gattis, who said he had grown up with Jamie Snow. Shortly after the murder, either that night or the next day, Gattis said he went to an apartment where Jamie and some mutual friends were hanging out. When he walked in, he saw a group of people in a bedroom, including Jamie. He said everyone looked like they had been crying. So Gattis asked who died. After a moment, one of the men in the group allegedly turned to Gattis and said Jamie had shot the boy at the gas station. Gattis said he looked at Jamie, but Jamie didn't say anything. Gattis said he didn't want anything to do with it, so he left the apartment. Prosecutors argued that Jamie's lack of denial was corroboration for what he had done. The jury also heard from a man named Steve Schiel, who said he was an old friend of Jamie's in Bloomington. Schiel said that he ran into Jamie at a party in April of 91, and he described him as looking rough with long, messy hair that was unkempt, like he hadn't showered in a while. The two started catching up, and during that conversation, she said Snow mentioned being, quote, on the run for a robbery. She then claimed the conversation turned to the Clark gas station, and according to his testimony, Jamie told him he had robbed the station and admitted he had shot Bill Little. While all of this was happening, composite sketches were being distributed all over town. One witness called to the stand testified that Jamie told her that the composites looked like him and he was so concerned about it that he told multiple people to take them down and bring them to him. She said she saw a pile of composites on his dining room table. She even overheard Jamie and Mark McCowan arguing over the sketches. And Jamie told McCowan, what are you worried about? It's not your picture up there. It's mine. In December of 1994, Jamie was sentenced to prison for Obstruction of justice in connection with the Freedom gas station robbery case. But according to the prosecution, that wasn't the end of his confessions. It was just the beginning of a new chapter. They argued that once behind bars, Jamie didn't stop talking. In fact, they said he continued to make statements about the crime. And they were prepared to call even more witnesses who claimed he confessed while incarcerated. One of those witnesses was Bruce Roland. Roland said he saw Jamie briefly while they were Both incarcerated in 1994 and had a conversation that he said was about the Clark's gas station murder. He said Jamie told him he had been partying nearby at a man named Brian Whitmer's house before the crime. He said he had gone to the gas station to get cigarettes, but didn't have enough money to pay for them. He was mad because the attendant wouldn't give him the cigarettes for free. So he left, but later returned determined to get them. He said there was an altercation, and he shot the attendant, took money out of the drawer and some cigarettes. Roland said he asked Jamie how he could shoot someone over such a small amount of money. But Jamie said it was because he was afraid of being recognized, so he had to take care of business. Then there was Bill Moffat, who said he had known Jamie for years, though they weren't close. Close. In November of 1994, both men were taken into custody and transferred to Joliet Correctional center, where they were housed in nearby cells. Moffat testified that on their very first night there, Jamie opened up to him. According to Moffat, Jamie said he was worried because he had committed a crime that went wrong and that other people might know about it. Moffat claimed Jamie then described what happened. He had been getting high with others. They ran out of money, and he went to a gas station with three other people. Jamie said he decided to rob it, believing it wouldn't be a problem because he knew the attendant. But when the attendant tried to stop him, Jamie said he shot him. Moffat testified that Jamie also talked about being worried he had been seen. He mentioned another car pulling into the lot and referenced composite sketches and reward flyers circulating around town. He claimed Jamie said there were three people involved, that someone else was driving, and that the robbery was motivated by their need for money to buy more drugs. Moffat said they talked about the incident again over the next week, but never in as much detail as that first conversation. Next was Ed Hammond, who had known Jamie for more than two decades. Hammond said that in July of 1995, he was incarcerated with Jamie at Centralia Correctional Center. He said they had A conversation in the prison yard, and according to Hammond, Jamie confessed to killing Bill Little. Hammond claimed Jamie went into detail about how he used a pistol, how Mark McCowan got rid of the gun for him, and how they went to McCowan's house to get high. Afterward, Hammond said that Jamie didn't seem worried about getting caught because he said, if anyone had recognized him, it would have happened a long time ago. Eventually, Jamie served his time for the obstruction charge and was released from prison. He returned to Florida and began making a living doing tree work. Back in Illinois, the lead investigator on Bill Little's murder, Charlie Crow, retired, and a new lead detective came along to take a fresh look. Detectives Dan Katz and Rick Barkus began reviewing the case files and interviewing these people who had been incarcerated with Jamie. That's when they began to hear information that supported their case against him. Suddenly, they started to piece together their story based on these witnesses who said Jamie had talked to them about it. Back in Florida, word got to Jamie that they were investigating him again, and he started to get nervous. Jody Winkler, a man who went to stay with Jamie in Florida in 1999, said Jamie helped him get a job at a tree service company. And for a few months, Winkler lived in a garage apartment behind Jamie's house. He said that one day it was raining, so they weren't able to work and went to the beach to hang out. Instead, he said, they started talking about rumors of a grand jury investigation. When Winkler asked if he was involved, he testified that Jamie admitted he had done it. Winkler also told the jury that later that summer, Jamie stopped working regularly and began staying at different motels. According to Winkler, Jamie said he was laying low after hearing investigators from Bloomington were in Florida asking questions, and he was trying to avoid being indicted. Eventually, the grand jury did indict Jamie and a warrant was issued for his arrest in September 1999. But when they went to arrest him in Florida, detectives found out that Jamie had fled the state. Jamie left Florida and headed north to Akron, Ohio. But it didn't take long for police to catch up to him. Jamie was in the driveway of the house where he was staying when they pulled up. When officers saw him, they knew he matched the description. They asked if he was Jamie Snow, but Jamie said no. He told them his name was Dave Arison and even gave them a birth certificate and Social Security card with Dave's name on it. As police were on the phone trying to verify who he was, they asked about identifying tattoos. And suddenly Jamie took off running. He was chased down by police and found 20 minutes later hiding in the area. Jamie was formally charged with the armed robbery and death of Bill little. While in county jail, Jamie saw an old friend, Ronnie wright. Wright testified that Jamie had admitted to him previously that he committed an armed robbery in bloomington and had shot someone before leaving for Florida. Wright said that jamie was now worried that people were snitching on him, and he told wright to forget anything that they had talked about before. By the time Jamie's trial was set to begin In December of 2000, almost 10 years had passed since Bill little's murder. Some pieces of evidence were gathered within minutes of the shooting, but others came together slowly over the course of years. Time played a critical role in allowing witnesses, People who had important information, to finally come forward. For some, it was fear that held them back. Fear of retaliation, Fear of getting involved with law enforcement, Fear of what might happen if they spoke up. For others, the prosecution argued, it simply took time to grow up, to become more mature, to become parents themselves, and to truly understand the weight of a life lost too soon, Especially in an act of senseless violence. And that, they said, is what ultimately pushed some of these witnesses to come forward and tell what they knew. The state told the jury that every one of those witnesses mattered in building that story. But the testimony that would hold the most weight, they argued, was Danny Martinez's. Martinez, who came face to face with Bill little's killer, also told the jury that years after the murder, when Jamie snow was arrested, he saw Jamie's photo in the newspaper and immediately recognized him. He said it was the eyes. That was the one thing he never forgot. When he saw the picture, he believed police had the right man. Then, just a few months before trial, Martinez was brought into the prosecutor's office and shown a photo of the lineup from 1991. He looked at the photo, pointed to Jamie, and said, that's him, isn't it? In the courtroom, in front of the jury, when the prosecutor asked Martinez to point Point to the man he saw that night, Martinez didn't hesitate. He pointed directly at Jamie snow sitting at the defense table. And when asked how sure he was, Martinez answered, 100%. In closing, prosecutors told the jury to focus on the details that supported their theory and not get distracted by the inconsistencies. They reminded the jury that this was their opportunity to deliver justice for Bill Little and his family. When this story is told the way the state suggested, ignoring the inconsistencies and focusing on corroboration, it becomes a compelling case. But in the next episode, we're going to tell this story again. Because when you add back in the context, the contradictions and the details the prosecution argued didn't matter, the story starts to look very different. And what was left out is the kind of thing that keeps me up at night. Next week, we're diving into the defense's case and the shocking revelations that came after trial, including thousands of pages of discovery that were never turned over to the defense and updates that will make you question everything you just heard. Plus, two more people connected to this case are now behind bars themselves, including a law enforcement officer and an attorney. And when you hear why, you may never look at this case the same way again. Thirteenth Juror is an audio Chuck production hosted by Brandi Churchwell. Ashley Flowers is executive producer. You can follow 13th Juror on Instagram @13th JurorPodcast. I think Chuck would approve.
- [35:08]
C
Everyone's told a lie. But what happens when one lie becomes a life, a movement, a conspiracy? I'm Josh Dean, host of Chameleon, and I uncover true stories of deception scams so intimate and convincing, they fooled the people closest to them. These aren't strangers. They're lovers, friends, and trusted allies. Because the most dangerous cons don't feel like crimes. They feel personal. Listen to Chameleon wherever you get your podcasts.