Podcast Summary: 1440 Explores
Episode Title: Ghosts: Why We See What Isn't There
Host: Soni Kassam (1440 Media)
Guest: Professor Chris French, Psychologist & Professor Emeritus, Goldsmiths, University of London
Date: October 30, 2025
Episode Overview
This episode examines why people believe they've seen or sensed ghosts, investigating the intersection of psychology, culture, history, and neuroscience behind supernatural experiences. Host Soni Kassam is joined by Professor Chris French, an expert in the psychology of paranormal beliefs, who guides listeners through the science of ghost sightings, cultural differences in ghost stories, and how our brains are wired to perceive the supernatural. Grounded in personal anecdotes and scientific research, the episode explores the deeper question: not whether ghosts are real, but why so many of us think they are.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Universal Ghost Stories and Personal Encounters
- Soni Kassam introduces the central question: Why do people believe in ghosts, and what makes these experiences so common and cross-cultural? (00:04)
- Personal Anecdote: Soni shares experiencing sleep paralysis and seeing a figure by her brother’s bed, connecting the topic to her own life. (13:05)
Notable Quote
"We're not just chasing ghosts. We're chasing the why behind them."
— Soni Kassam (00:16)
2. A Skeptic’s Journey
- Chris French recounts an episode from his early life where he saw his girlfriend at the end of his bed. Only later did he discover skepticism and approach these experiences scientifically. (03:34)
- He credits James Alcock’s Parapsychology: Science or Magic? for his shift towards skepticism. (04:22)
Notable Quote
"It wasn't until I was doing my PhD that I actually discovered the joys of skepticism."
— Chris French (04:11)
3. Cultural Diversity in Ghost Beliefs
- Ghost stories are universal—every culture has them. (05:24)
- The DETAILS of ghost beliefs, however, differ widely:
- Ancient Greek ghosts: souls of the unburied or unjustly killed.
- Western: shrouded figures from European burial customs.
- Japanese: funeral kimono and long black hair.
- Chinese: green-faced spirits. (05:50–07:08)
Notable Quote
"You won't find a single culture, either geographically or historically, that doesn't have beliefs relating to spirits and life after death."
— Chris French (05:24)
4. Why Do We Believe? Psychological Explanations
A. Mortality & Wish Fulfillment
- Belief in ghosts often stems from a fear of mortality and the desire for connections with deceased loved ones. (08:23)
- Ghosts offer hope that death isn't final.
B. Confirmation Bias
- Cognitive biases, especially confirmation bias, reinforce supernatural belief. (09:22)
- The brain more readily accepts evidence if it confirms pre-existing beliefs or desires.
C. Evolutionary Survival Mechanisms
- Human brains evolved to detect agency and threats in the environment, leading to “false alarms” where we sense presences that aren’t there. (10:39)
- Seeing intention behind unexplained phenomena once helped us survive but now makes us prone to ghost sightings. (11:47)
Notable Quote
"Brains that evolved to keep us alive, not necessarily brains that evolved in order to ascertain the truth with a capital T."
— Chris French (10:39)
5. Sleep Paralysis: A Scientific Explanation for Ghostly Encounters
- Sleep paralysis: Brain is awake but body cannot move, sometimes accompanied by terrifying hallucinations—monsters, shadows, voices. Commonly mistaken as ghost encounters. (12:48, 14:01)
- About 1 in 5 will experience it at least once; 7–8% experience it regularly. (13:05)
Notable Quote
"Typical things that people report would be lights moving around the room, or dark shadows, monstrous figures, demons, old hags, full form apparitions."
— Chris French (14:01)
6. Pareidolia: Seeing Patterns Where None Exist
- Pareidolia: The tendency to see faces or meaningful patterns in random stimuli—clouds, stains, shadows. (16:16, 18:03)
- Evolution favored those who saw threats in ambiguity, but this now leads us to misperceive harmless stimuli as supernatural. (18:43)
Notable Quote
"Sometimes we think that we can see meaningful patterns when actually they're not really there. It's kind of randomness."
— Chris French (18:03)
7. Science vs. Supernatural Claims
- Victorian-era research into hauntings (e.g., Society for Psychical Research) consistently found mundane explanations for supposedly supernatural events. (19:06)
- The 1970s Philip experiment showed suggestion alone could generate group “hauntings.” (20:39)
- Modern ghost hunting technology (EMF meters, thermal cameras, EVP recorders) often detects only environmental noise, not spirits. (20:49)
Notable Quote
"If you say to suggestible people, if you go in this space, you might have some weird experiences. Some of them do. But it's all down to the power of suggestion."
— Chris French (20:39)
8. The Business of Belief
- Ghosts have become a lucrative industry in tourism and entertainment:
- US paranormal tourism > $2 billion/year
- Salem, Gettysburg, and New Orleans: huge economic impact from ghost tourism (21:30–22:30)
- Halloween spending in 2024: ~$10 billion (22:30)
- Ghost-themed media creates belief feedback loops through TV and movies (22:45–23:54)
Notable Quote
"Haunted streets, ghost tours and TV shows…they’re also mirrors of something deeper: our curiosity, our fears, and the stories we tell to make sense of the unknown."
— Soni Kassam (23:54)
9. Final Reflections: Ghosts & Humanity
- Ghosts may not be real, but belief in them says something deeply important about human psychology, loss, fear, and culture. (24:16)
- Studying why we believe in the supernatural helps us understand what it means to be human.
Notable Quote
"It’s an important part of what it means to be human. And so if, as psychologists, we've got nothing to say about that, I think we're missing out on a really important aspect of what it means to be human."
— Chris French (24:16)
Key Timestamps for Important Segments
| Timestamp | Segment | |---------------|---------------------------------------------------------| | 00:04 | Introduction and core questions: Why do we see ghosts? | | 03:34 | Chris French’s personal early ghost encounter | | 05:24 | Ghost stories as a cultural universal | | 08:23 | Mortality, emotion, and belief in ghosts | | 09:22 | Confirmation bias and the persistence of belief | | 10:39 | Evolutionary psychology: brains built to detect agency | | 12:48 | Sleep paralysis explained | | 14:01 | Hallucinations during sleep paralysis | | 16:16 | Pareidolia: seeing meaning in randomness | | 18:03 | Examples of pareidolia in daily life | | 19:06 | Scientific investigations into hauntings | | 20:39 | Suggestion and group ‘hauntings’ (Philip experiment) | | 21:30–22:45 | Paranormal tourism, Halloween spending, media feedback | | 24:16 | Final reflections on belief, humanity, and psychology |
Memorable Moments & Quotes
- Skeptical transformation: “It wasn’t until I was doing my PhD that I actually discovered the joys of skepticism.” (04:11)
- On pattern-seeking: “Sometimes we think that we can see meaningful patterns when actually they're not really there. It's kind of randomness.” (18:03)
- On culture and ghosts: “It very much suggests that we're dealing with something that is a product of those cultural beliefs rather than something that has any objective reality.” (07:08)
- On evolutionary psychology: “Brains that evolved to keep us alive, not necessarily brains that evolved in order to ascertain the truth with a capital T.” (10:39)
- On sleep paralysis hallucinations: “You can open your eyes, you can see you’re in your bedroom. Does not feel like a dream—and yet all this stuff is happening.” (14:01)
- On the business of belief: “Haunted streets, ghost tours and TV shows…they’re also mirrors of something deeper: our curiosity, our fears, and the stories we tell to make sense of the unknown.” (23:54)
- On the significance of belief: “It’s an important part of what it means to be human…if we’ve got nothing to say about that, I think we’re missing out.” (24:16)
Summary Takeaway
The episode compellingly argues that ghost sightings are less about spirits and more about the complex interplay of emotion, culture, and the quirks of the human mind. Combining historical context, personal stories, and psychological research, it demonstrates that the belief in ghosts reveals much about universal human concerns: mortality, memory, and meaning-making. Ultimately, the “real” ghosts are found not in the supernatural, but in the corners of our own psychology—and in the timeless stories we share to explain the unknown.