Podcast Summary: How the US Turned Fire From Friend to Foe

Podcast: 1440 Explores
Host: Soni Kassam (1440 Media)
Guest: Dr. Steven Pyne, Emeritus Professor and Fire Historian
Release Date: January 29, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode of 1440 Explores takes listeners on a deep dive into the evolving relationship between humans and fire in the United States. Host Soni Kassam, alongside fire historian Dr. Steven Pyne, unpacks how fire shifted from a domesticated tool—our “constant companion”—to a destructive force of historic proportions. Using a mix of history, ecology, and cultural insight, the episode examines major wildfire events, past policy choices, and argues for a profound rethinking of how we approach and coexist with fire.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Escalating Scale of Wildfires

[00:04-01:14]

• Recent catastrophic fires: Paradise, CA (2018); Maui, HI (2023); Los Angeles, CA (2025).
  • Fires now burn beyond traditional seasons and geographies (e.g., UK, Russia, Canada).
• Climate change is a driver, but not the lone cause—increased fuel and historical mismanagement play crucial roles.
• Quote:

  "It was our constant companion. Now we've turned our best friend into our worst enemy."
  — Steven Pyne [01:08]

2. Fire’s Deep Roots in Earth’s History & Human Evolution

[03:19-05:17]

• Fire’s emergence on Earth: 420 million years ago, made possible by the evolution of oxygen-emitting plants.
• Human mastery of fire distinguishes our species:
  • Cooking reshaped human biology and society.
  • Fire as both a literal and cultural hearth.
• Quote:

  "We got big heads and small guts because we learned to cook. We went to the top of the food chain because we learned to cook landscapes. Now we're a geologic force because we're cooking the planet. We are the fire creature."
  — Steven Pyne [05:05]

3. Indigenous Fire Stewardship vs. Fire Suppression

[06:04-10:06]

• Indigenous practices: Frequent, small, controlled burns maintained ecosystem health and prevented large wildfires.

  • Early European explorers named LA "The Bay of Smoke"—likely from indigenous burning, not wildfires.

• European colonizers suppressed fire, believing it dangerous.

• The 1910 "Big Blowup" (3 million acres burned) fundamentally changed US fire policy.

  • 10am Policy: Every fire extinguished by 10am the next day.

• Result: Fuel accumulations skyrocketed, setting the stage for bigger, more destructive fires.

• Quote:

  "If we eliminate all fires as soon as possible, then we will never have big fires again because all fires begin as small fires."
  — Steven Pyne [09:13]
  "The problem is that this is completely unmoored from ecological reality and the character of fire."
  — Steven Pyne [09:56]

4. The Shift to Controlled Fire and Lingering Challenges

[10:06-11:48]

• 1960s: Scientists argue for fire as a natural ecological process.

• 1978: Forest Service drops 10am policy, embraces prescribed and managed burns.

• Implementation lags: Old attitudes, resource limitations, public misconceptions hamper progress.

• Yosemite Valley as a case study: From open grassland to overgrown forest due to suppression.

• Quote:

  "You can change the laws, but it's going to take a long time before you start seeing the results in the field."
  — Steven Pyne [11:33]

5. Human Development and the Wildland-Urban Interface

[11:48-14:09]

• Most wildfires are now started by humans—power lines, campfires, even the 4th of July.

• The wildland-urban interface: More people, more homes, greater risk.

• Home construction and layout critical to resilience—materials and spacing make a major difference.

• Quote:

  "These houses can be built...with different materials, with different design, that would be resistant to most of what fire can throw at you."
  — Steven Pyne [13:42]

6. Climate Change and the Fire Triangle

[15:40-17:13]

• Hotter, drier, yet sometimes wetter seasons (which grow more fuel) precede destructive droughts.

• 15 of California’s 20 most destructive fires have happened since 2015.

• Even regions once considered "fire safe" are now at risk.

• Quote:

  "Temperate zones like central Europe, northeastern US...have not historically had these explosive fires, but they can. We will start seeing more of that."
  — Steven Pyne [16:47]

7. Rethinking Fire: "The Pyrocene"

[17:13-21:48]

• Modern megafires reflect a pathology of the developed world—resources alone don't guarantee prudent fire management.

• Pyne proposes an ecological metaphor: wildfire is like a virus—emerging from and shaped by its living context.

• The “fire paradox”: We must fight destructive fire with more “good fire”—intentional burns to consume danger before it builds.

  • Indigenous practices offer a blueprint for coexistence.
  • Legal, infrastructural, and cultural shifts are needed.

• Notable Quote:

  "With our various fire habits, we have created the fire equivalent of an ice age. We are remaking the planet bit by bit."
  — Steven Pyne [20:19]
  "Fire is a shapeshifter. We need to shapeshift with it. In some ways, we can recover from an abusive relationship to fire and make it our best friend again, our companion. So not all fires are bad."
  — Steven Pyne [21:29]

Memorable Moments & Notable Quotes

• [03:05] Steven Pyne:

  "I consider myself a pyromantic, not a pyromaniac."

• [13:55] Soni Kassam:

  "Things like stone roofs, brick walls, and more spaces between homes."

• [19:13] Steven Pyne (on Arizona wildfire management):

  "This fire was completely out of control...two things stopped it. One was another wildfire on the side...the other is that it burned into a fire that four years previously had been managed..."

Key Timestamps

• 00:04 — Wildfire disasters: recent events setting the stage
• 03:19 — The origin and evolution of fire on Earth
• 06:04 — Indigenous burning practices vs. fire suppression
• 08:05 — The 1910 “Big Blowup” and birth of fire suppression policy
• 10:06 — Scientific reassessment and policy change in 1970s
• 13:55 — Building homes for fire resilience
• 15:40 — Climate change: how heat and weather extremes influence fire
• 17:13 — The fire triangle vs. ecological and cultural perspectives
• 20:19 — The Pyrocene: a new age of fire

Conclusion

How the US Turned Fire From Friend to Foe offers a sweeping historical, scientific, and cultural analysis of America’s evolving relationship with wildfire. Dr. Steven Pyne urges a paradigm shift: to restore fire’s place as a managed, beneficial force (good fire) rather than simply a threat to be extinguished. This transformative vision applies not just to policy, but to deep-seated public attitudes and the very design of our landscapes. The episode challenges listeners to "embrace fire wisely," recognizing that only by understanding and working with fire can we protect both our land and ourselves.

For further exploration and curated resources, listeners are encouraged to visit join1440.com.