EP 73: From Addiction To Entrepreneur: Tyler Walker

Summary

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Podcast Summary: 2 Addicts & A Moron

Episode 73: From Addiction To Entrepreneur: Tyler Walker
Release Date: October 9, 2025
Guests: Tyler Walker
Hosts: Mike "Stu Boy" O'Brien (A), Joey "The Moron" (C)

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Overview

This episode features Tyler Walker, a recovering addict who transformed his life from decades of methamphetamine addiction, homelessness, and criminal activity to becoming a successful entrepreneur, husband, and father. The discussion is raw, honest, and at times, darkly humorous, tracing Tyler’s journey through addiction, the chaos it bred, his path through treatment and recovery, and ultimately, his current life of purpose supporting others in recovery through business, family, and service.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Early Addiction & Downward Spiral

• Tyler openly recounts starting drug use young: weed and pills at 12, then meth—his “first love”—by 16, which he injected until age 33 ([03:24]).
• Meth use quickly escalated his life into chaos, addictive patterns, and severe loss of control, epitomized by trades of valuables (his grandpa's gun) for drugs, the isolation and lying, and extreme physical and mental consequences.
• Notable quote:

  "Meth is the one thing that I will choose over anything in my life." – Tyler, [03:15]

2. Effects of Meth Use

• Describes classic “tweaker” behaviors: constant unfinished projects, obsessive collecting (cords, electronics), and paranoid surveillance (cameras everywhere) ([10:01]).
• The hosts and Tyler commiserate on never finishing what you start, a universal experience among heavy meth users.
• Paranoia, shadow people—hallucinations resulting from sleeplessness and meth-induced psychosis—become frequent.
• Notable exchange:

  "Shadow people are a real thing." – Tyler, [22:05]
  "I named them." – Joey, [22:29]

3. Functional Addict & Oil Field Years

• Tyler functioned highly for years, working in the oil fields, driving trucks, making great money while maintaining drug use ([14:08]).
• Despite outward stability, internally he was spiraling, spending recklessly, never saving, and eventually losing everything as addiction and economic downturns converged.

4. Progression of Addiction and Legal Troubles

• After his oilfield job collapsed, addiction intensified: lost vehicles/homes, criminal behavior, joining a motorcycle club, dealing drugs and guns, and eventually homelessness ([38:54], [48:54]).
• Tyler reflects on the "acceptance" that drugs, dealing, and certain communities gave him—a recurring theme throughout recovery stories.
• Notable quote:

  “I always wanted to be accepted and loved and cared about. Once I started slinging weed, that was like a whole different gamechanger... Captain Popular.” – Tyler, [27:54]

5. Family Dynamics & the Role of Childhood

• Childhood trauma and absence of his father were major contributors to his vulnerability.

  "I didn't have a dad growing up…was always seeking acceptance. I've always been a big kid… I always wanted to fit in." – Tyler, [25:08]

• His mother's own addiction culminated in an unhealthy bond over drugs.

6. Attempts at Recovery & Relapse

• Multiple attempts at quitting—including a dramatic self-detox from heroin in a basement—failed, as did his first 35-day treatment stint ([44:59], [55:29]).
• Humorous but telling anecdotes illustrate the insanity of active addiction: using used needles from a bottle of urine, shooting up with toilet water or Mountain Dew ([56:59] - [58:12]).
• Notable quote:

  "That's that obsession piece. I will go to any lengths to get high." – Tyler, [58:21]

7. Hitting Bottom and the Turning Point

• Ultimately, homelessness, a toxic relationship, and a moment of utter defeat in a McDonald's parking lot, high and desperate, led to Tyler accepting help ([75:20]).
• He finally worked the 12 steps, got a sponsor, found faith ("me and God have always had this problem"), and started rebuilding his life from the ground up ([79:19]).

8. Building a New Life: Family, Service, and Business

• Tyler's recovery is grounded in routine—early meetings, attending church, prayer, and service.
• He remarried (to Amanda), gained back his relationship with his son, and together with Amanda runs several recovery-focused enterprises:
  • Outcast Ministries ([88:31])
  • Away Out Recovery Homes
  • Real estate business and staging company
• Notable quote:

  "God didn’t save us for us to sit it out. He saved us so we could share it on." – Joey quoting a church message, [98:44]

9. Fatherhood: Contrasts Before & After Recovery

• Pre-sobriety, Tyler equated parenting to financial provision and gifting; post-recovery, he values presence, accountability, and leadership in his son’s life.
• Emphasizes community support and mentorship—as a dad, and for his son through NJROTC and a strong sober network ([114:41]).

10. Working the Steps in All Areas

• Recovery is more than abstinence—a journey of continual self-improvement, including finances, relationships, and emotional health ([102:58]).
• Humorous but insightful look at the challenge of applying the 12 steps to financial habits ([104:45]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Meth’s Allure:

  "First time I did meth, it was like, oh my God, this is the best stuff in the world. I can stay up forever, I have the most confidence I've ever had in my entire life." – Tyler, [04:32]

• On Tweaker Stereotypes:

  "If you have furniture outside that used to be in your living room, probably meth…if you have a bunch of electronics taken apart…why would I even watch this?" – Joey, [13:03]

• On Acceptance:

  "I always wanted to be accepted and loved and cared about. And, you know, once I started slinging weed, that was like a whole different gamechanger too." – Tyler, [27:54]

• On Relapse Drives:

  "I told myself I was never going to be homeless again when I moved out to Texas...First thing I did is go buy this RV..." – Tyler, [10:01]

• On Making Amends:

  "My number one offender on my resentment? My dad and my mom…That was the thing, I'd been judging this guy for all this stuff and not knowing his side." – Tyler, [119:16]

• On Recovery and Responsibility:

  "Being a present father is like, dude, it's a lot...I would not—there's no way I'd be able to do it without Amanda." – Tyler, [112:18]

• Dark Humor:

  "Any tweaker that's out there, pees in bottles. I don't know why the f*** we pee in bottles." – Tyler, [56:59]

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Important Timestamps

• [03:15] – Tyler names meth as his “first love”
• [07:04] – First time shooting meth story (medical emergency)
• [10:00] – Tweaker projects and the “RV of projects”
• [22:05] – Discussion of shadow people and psychosis
• [25:08] – Role of childhood acceptance, father’s absence
• [44:59] – Hitting bottom: heroin self-detox and near-death
• [55:29] – First go at treatment; relapse to shooting up with urine-bottle needles
• [75:20] – Accepts sponsor's help, pivotal moment for real recovery
• [88:31] – On founding Outcast Ministries and sober living businesses
• [112:18] – On fatherhood in recovery and reliance on his wife Amanda
• [119:16] – Making amends to his absent father

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Segment Highlights & Structure

“Tweaker Tales & Humor” ([08:03]–[13:58])

• Wildly honest, funny recounting of “tweaker” life, project obsession, paranoia, and self-destructive patterns.

“What Drives Us to Use?” ([25:08]–[34:55])

• Deep dive into childhood wounds, need for acceptance, parental relationships and how they act as root causes for substance abuse.

“Functional Addict to Criminal Descent” ([38:54]–[53:38])

• Functioning in high-stress, high-paying jobs while using, the lure of criminal lifestyle and loss of any normal relationships.

“Treatment, Relapse, and True Surrender” ([55:29]–[80:27])

• First treatment, relapse, insanity of addiction, and eventual acceptance of help and spirituality through 12-step work.

“Recovery, Entrepreneurship, and Family” ([88:31]–[98:44])

• Using strengths from addiction (resourcefulness, grit) in recovery and entrepreneurship.
• Tyler’s business endeavors and life with his wife Amanda.

“Parenting: Brokenness and Breakthrough” ([110:25]–[117:12])

• Contrasts between old and new parenting—what real fatherhood means in recovery, and why it’s an ongoing learning experience.

“Legacy, Service, and Loss” ([129:01]–[130:52])

• Remembrance of friend Alan Luckett, who died sober.
• Reflection on the reality that not all in recovery make it, but some do reach a peaceful end.
• Notable quote:

  "We lose a lot of people, and he's the first person I've lost in recovery that made it to the finish line." – Joey, [129:20]

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Closing

The episode ends with gratitude, encouragement for others to reach out for help, reminders about upcoming recovery events (“Serenity Under the Stars", [125:26]), and a heartfelt message about the importance of community both in and outside of recovery. Tyler’s story showcases the depths of addiction and, more importantly, the potential for redemption, meaning, and service.

If you or someone you know is struggling, the message is clear: There is hope, and there are people waiting to help.

Transcript

[A]

Disclaimer at two Addicts and A Moron. We discuss personal stories of addiction with the intention of being educational, relatable, and inspirational. The views and experiences shared are those of individuals involved are not meant to glorify or condone any illegal or harmful behavior. This content is for educational purposes only and is not intended as professional advice. If you or someone you know is struggling with addiction, we strongly encourage you seek help from a qualified professional or support service. We are back. Clap for you to another episode of two Addicts and A. And we got a very, very, very special guest. This has been a long time coming, dude. Tyler Walker, everybody. Hey, what's up, dude?

[B]

Up, dude.

[A]

Hey, man. So any links, retreat, like, right after we started this thing?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, we were like, yeah, we're gonna go and do, like, just promo and pass out stuff and, like, hopefully people will pay attention. And you were the first. You were like, you're the guy on the thing. And. And we had a really good conversation to start. And I. I just preface this, but he's the very first person ever to ask for a picture with me, and I was a little freaked out about it. I was like, why? We have, like, four subscribers, dude.

[B]

You're one of them. That mean that.

[C]

That means he beat off to you? That.

[A]

Yeah, dude.

[B]

I went.

[A]

That's what that means. I showed my girl. I was like, I'm famous. This guy knows me. What's up? Yeah, it was awesome, dude. It was the. The ultimate ego stroke. But we had a really good long conversation where you made me feel like I was the biggest weirdo in the world because I can drink a beer and leave it alone. You were like, you're so weird, dude. What the is wrong with you? Like, not holding your tongue at all?

[B]

Right.

[A]

Yeah, it was so cool. But it was a really good time. But thanks for coming, dude. Yeah, yeah, we. Because we were. I mean, right then we were like, you should come on the podcast. And you were like, I'd love to come on the podcast.

[B]

Right. And then we all got busy.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I think you were just secretly waiting. You're like, look, you're going to have to have a lot more subscribers before I'm going to get on the ship. All right, that's fair. So here we are, man. Thanks for coming. It's an honor. You got a lot of stuff going on, dude. So I really appreciate you taking the time and you live fucking far.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah, dude.

[B]

You're Al Basra. Yeah, Bastro. All right. I. I'm in town pretty much every day.

[A]

That's a commute.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Well, again, man, appreciate you stopping by. So what was your doc?

[B]

So overall, it was a trash can. Pretty much anything, right? But my. My first love is definitely methamphetamine. Means.

[C]

Let's go.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

By far. By far. That was my. Definitely.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, meth is. Meth is the one thing that I will choose over anything in my life.

[A]

Yeah. Over life.

[B]

Over life, absolutely.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. It was. You know, and that all started. I mean, it started. I started pretty young. I started ivy. I started shooting meth at 16.

[A]

Whoa.

[B]

Until I was 33.

[A]

Whoa. You have veins left or.

[B]

Yeah, Yeah, I never had a problem with my veins. That wasn't a problem. But, yeah. 16, 33. My sobriety day is June 12, 2019. So I have a little over six years.

[A]

Let's go.

[C]

Let's go.

[A]

Yeah, let's go.

[C]

I got a weird question because I've never shot meth, even though meth was definitely my favorite. When you're shooting meth, you don't have to shoot it as much as, like, when you're shooting heroin. Right. Or is that. Does it matter?

[B]

So. No. And I don't recommend anybody ever shoots the best. Right, Right. Definitely.

[A]

We have to say that a lot on two addicts in a moron. Yeah. We're not condoning weird.

[C]

However, that'.

[B]

That's when it ruined my life.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Right. Like. Like, you know, started. Obviously, it started, you know, smoking weed. Weed turns to pills. Pills turns to, you know, drinking and partying and whatever. And then first time I did meth, it was like, oh, my God, this is the best stuff in the world. Right. Because I can stay up forever. I have the most confidence that I've ever had in my entire life. Right. I think I look good. I feel good. I'm stronger. You know, I. I can think faster. All this, all the stuff that goes along with that, and. And, you know, once that really took effect, then it was like, it. It was. Once I found the needle, like, smoking it would. Like, it was just one. You know, I. I could smoke on the weekends. You know, it's the early stages of the progression. Right. Just smoke on the weekends, but put the bag up. It's not a big deal. You know, I've got some dope for next weekend. And then once I got on the needle, first time I ever shot up, so. First time I ever shot up, I took my grandpa's. So my grandpa had given me a gun for Christmas. I took the gun, went and pawned it to Go hang out with these two girls who were going to. So we live. I'm originally from this little town called Salmon, Idaho. Pawn this gun, decide to go to Boise, which is five hours away from Salmon. And I'm gonna hang out with these chicks. So on the gun, give them the money. I don't know how to get. You know, like, this is the beginning stages. You know, be like a little bag here. They buy a bag of dope, come back to the hotel, they say, you ever shot meth? Oh, yeah, I shoot it all the time, dude. You know? Okay, well, I'm like, but you're going to have to hit me. I can't hit myself. And all I remember is she mixed it up and she thought that I was somebody who had been doing it for a long time. And all I remember is the minute that it went into my body, it hit my heart, my eyes started bouncing off my nose, and I started shaking, like, convulsing to the point where, like, I couldn't stop. And they go, oh, my God, we need to get you in a bathtub right now. So they strip me, butt, ass naked, and they put me in a bathtub and they fill it full of cold water. They leave. I'm at a hotel, they leave. They go get bags of ice. They come back and put bags of ice in the water with me. And I just sit there and I. Like, I'm not functioning. I didn't speak for three days after that because I was so high. I was just so high.

[C]

So you went to a different planet.

[B]

Oh, yeah. Yeah, it was wild. It was wild. The girl I was with, she was actually cheating on her girlfriend with me the whole time. And so the. That's who I'm getting high with. And then, of course, when I come back, the first words out of my mouth are, sleeping with your girlfriend. So then, you know, that turned into.

[A]

A yeah, like, you problem.

[C]

Do you want to join in? It's really not cheating.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Right?

[C]

So, yeah, dude, that was the reason I never shot it. I. I've given some people some shots.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And the rule at my house is if you come over and you buy something from me and you want me to give you a shot, you have to leave after that because you're. Unless you're. A female, if you're a guy, you have to go because you're gonna go zero to a thousand really quick.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And sometimes I can't deal with you. Like, I can't deal with them just all over the place.

[B]

That's part of it right is the non stop porn. You know, say this. And I can say this to anybody that's ever shot meth. You go, yeah. You can't ever stop scrolling. You never finish a full episode.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You don't watch a movie.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Ever. You tell that to any tweaker, they're like, oh, yeah, 100, bro. Like, next one.

[C]

And then I'll watch the preview, download it and go to the Next. Download it.

[B]

100.

[C]

And then at the end of the night, I have like 400 downloaded videos. I haven't watched any more than 25 seconds of it. And then I start feeling guilty because what if my daughter gets my phone tomorrow? So now I have to delete 400 videos. And then I would rinse and repeat the next night. The next night, the next night. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

And then it goes from just normal to. It gets dark real quick, especially the long, you know, and you're like, is this girl doing with this horse? Where did this even come from? Why would I even watch this?

[C]

Why am I searching for it now?

[B]

It gets dark really quick.

[A]

But yeah, why do I like it? Why is this the exclusive porn that I'm watching now?

[C]

Why am I beating off to it?

[B]

Yeah, yeah. It gets wild.

[A]

So yeah, dude. So six years and how old are you?

[B]

38.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah, I'm 38.

[A]

Yeah. You're about to say, dude, this was not a quiz.

[B]

Look, I. I've gotten. I don't know, man. There's time feels like it is slowed way down.

[A]

Even though you're way busy, you. It's still slower than it probably.

[B]

Yeah, definitely. It definitely is. I wouldn't get anything done. You know what I mean? Like, and even because I'm the same way, right? Like when I get high, like, it slows me down, calms me down, but I get all these projects.

[C]

Oh, bro, you're the ideas in your head. You have so many great ideas.

[B]

So many great ideas.

[C]

Yeah. And we.

[B]

And you can never finish anything. Like, I had a. I had an rv, okay? So this is real. I had an rv. I told myself I was never going to be homeless again when I moved out to Texas, right? So I was like, first thing I did is go buy this RV from the junkyard. And it was. I'm talking like, it is perfect condition. Nothing wrong with it, right? But it's like 80s style, so it's like Mad Max RV.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like perfect condition. Everything's good. I decided there were things that were wrong. I mean, dude, so the. The two years. The two years relapse. That I had during that time was that was how I'd create all these projects, right? One project after another. Oh, we're going to take out, we're going to pull the countertops, put new countertops in, do all this other stuff. It went from perfect condition to infested with bugs. Mattresses all over the outside of the house. Cameras everywhere, bro. Like, I had cameras. So many cameras. And yeah, I never finished any of those projects. Then when I got sober, right, Part of me, part of me getting sober was like, you're getting rid of my sponsors. Like, dude, you're getting rid of the camper. You're gonna go take it, park it somewhere. You're going silver living. The girl I was, you know, involved with at the time, she's like, you're going to sober living. There is no options. And so I put it in storage, got sober, ended up cleaning out my storage unit one day when I was out there. Found boxes and boxes and boxes of cords. I was a cord guy. The tweaker thing too. I don't know why I'm talking like the four foot by two foot by two foot, you know, big industrial size boxes, cords, cameras, everything you can think of, cords. But yeah, once I got sober, I was able to completely redo everything in two weeks. And I'd worked on it for like six months.

[C]

Yeah, I was a Bluetooth speaker guy. I used to, I used to buy so many Bluetooth. My rule was you can never have too many Bluetooth speakers, right? Because they go dead and then you have to charge them. So I'd always buy all these new ones. But I remember in my house, I had decided that I was going to redo. I was going to take all the carpet out and was going to re. I was going to put tile down everywhere, right? My upstairs bathroom was the first one to get done. And I did it all. It did a great job. But there was two pieces that I needed to cut to finish it. That was like in 2016.

[B]

Ish.

[C]

And when I sold my house, those two pieces still weren't cut. Like, yeah, I literally sold it. So, yeah, my job is never. I would get like 90% done and then be like, I need to build a wall over here. And then now I'm building a wall and this part over here, like, just would never get done. Never ever get done. Yeah, that's definitely. I was reading this article one time.

[A]

When I was, when I was a trip.

[C]

I was reading this article one time when I was high and it says, how do you know if your next door neighbor does math, I'm like, let me read this.

[B]

And it said everything. So they don't know, bro.

[C]

It was everything that I had done done. Like if there, if you have furniture outside that used to be in your living room, probably submit. If you have a bunch of electronics taken apart there, there was nothing wrong with them and they're now all over your house and the wires are everywhere. And I'm looking around like radios, speakers, like I would take speakers apart just to see how they worked and then I would never put them back together or I would try to add an LED in there and it would never work. I had, you know those little, those little scooters that you rent downtown? I had three of those. For whatever reason I thought I was going to fix them and then be able to charge people to use them. That never happened. I traded those, I traded some meth for those. Yeah. Still had them when I left. When I moved down to my apartment. Finally, I finally just left them. I was taking them from house to house to house, place to place. Yeah, Never finished, never finished anything. That's definitely a tweaker thing.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

But yeah, all the things that, it was on that list when I got down to like the third one, I'm like, fuck, my neighbors know I'm a tweaker.

[B]

Yeah, there's no doubt about it.

[C]

I'm not fooling anybody anymore.

[B]

I think that's the thing, right? Like we think that. I mean, I, I, I will, I will admit, dude, there was like a seven year span to where like I was a completely functional crystal method. Even though I was shooting dope, I would, you know, the progression piece of this whole deal is, you know, when I would, I would, I would be able to wake up, do some dope, limit myself on the amount of dope that I was doing so that I wouldn't be too high so that I could still go to work and I could function. Right. And the whole time I'm doing this, I'm driving truck, right? Yeah, CDL. Drove truck for, got a drove truck for 20 years. It was oil filled, right? So oil fill. It was like, wasn't accepted, but it was like everybody got high. We're working 80, 100 plus hours a week, dude. Yeah, you're doing something right. So, so, but I could limit myself in the beginning. So it'd be like just do enough to get through the day, you know, come home, you know, party a little. But make sure I stopped early enough that I could get some rest so that I could get up and do it all again the next day. Yeah, I did that for seven years, you know, made a bunch of money. Never was able to save money or do anything, you know, because when I have days off, then it's like, let's go buy boats and motorcycles and four wheelers and, you know, and take them.

[A]

Apart and not put them back together.

[B]

And I have this. I have this thought that this money is just going to last forever. Right. Like it's always going to be there.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And then once the oil field shut down in 2008, for a while it was. That was really where I spiraled out.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And it was just like. Because I, you know, motorcycle's gone, boat's gone, everything's gone. All this stuff's leaving. And oh, guess what? You got a place to stay either. So now you're asking this other guy if you can stay at his place, and then all you guys do is get high and fix the house.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Work on stuff together.

[C]

I think that's one of the things that. That definitely hurt me during my addiction is I always had good jobs where I always made money.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

But I never saved. Like, I literally live paycheck to paycheck, which I always knew, like, well, I'll make it back in two weeks. I'll make it back in two weeks. But then when I would get fired, I had nothing saved up. So I would literally be. That's where I would have to start, like doing some criminal to be able to make it to the next day. And like, you know the scams that we do.

[B]

Oh, absolutely.

[C]

Right. Like we meth addicts come up with some amazing stuff.

[A]

I think just drug addicts generally. But I think that I always say.

[C]

Some of the smartest people I've ever been with been around. Or drug addicts.

[A]

Well, smart, resourceful, like. But the smart resourceful doesn't leave you guys.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, that never goes away, I think. I mean, I say it all the time, but I'm glad that you did meth. Cuz if you didn't.

[C]

Thanks, Joey.

[A]

But if you. For real, if you didn't, like these walls wouldn't have got built these lights and cameras and wouldn't have gotten figured out. You wouldn't have 14 jobs or whatever the you're doing right now. You know, you. You know what I'm saying? But like, I'm just, I'm saying that how. Because you guys were doing that. Taking apart, never putting it back together. Once you got clean, you kind of got to work on the putting it Back together. I mean, to your point with the rv, right? Like, once you got clean and sober, you're like, I was done in like two weeks. Yeah. Yeah. With the. That's everything.

[B]

And sold it. Got rid of the camper. You know what I mean? It was like, dude, what were you doing?

[C]

Yeah, like, bro, did you ever sit there and watch your. You said you had cameras on your rv.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[C]

Would you get stuck watching them, bro?

[B]

All the time. Okay, so check this out. So I'm. I'm in this trailer park. I'm in this trailer park up in Liberty Hill, right? So I've got the cameras. So like, obviously in the front of your. Your rv, you've got the. You know, you can put the blinds up, you know, so I'd. I mounted a camera at the very front so that it could see all of my neighbor's house.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So I. And I would constantly just, you know, be on there, just. And it. So it was. It was one of the old cameras to where it would, like, had to be hardwired to a tv. You know what I mean? Yeah. I would, like, sit there and just watch the tv. One of the neighbors comes out of the house. He must have been a jailer or something one day. But he comes out and he's wearing a full police uniform. And I'm like, oh, my God, he's after me.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I knew he was gonna set me up. It was just like, oh, my God, dude, I have so many stories. I don't even know where to start, like, with this whole deal, dude. Because there's this, like. I mean, I spent a long time in addiction. You know what I mean?

[A]

Yeah. Well, 16, I mean, would you say 16 is like kind of where you.

[B]

16 is? Wherever, like, the meth started. Serious, right?

[C]

That's when he got real bad.

[B]

Yeah. I started. I started using. I started using 12, right. I started smoking wee, doing prescription pills, parties, you know, Keger. Just all the. Just normal stuff. I'm from a, you know, like I said, a little town in Idaho. It's probably like three. It was like 3, 000 people back when I was there. Right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Always had four wheelers growing up, Dirt bikes, all that stuff. It's Idaho's way different than Texas, right? Like, there is so much BLM land up there that you can just jump on a four wheeler and go ride and go camping or go do whatever. You don't have to pay for camping. You don't have to, you know, know somebody that's got land to go out and hunt. You don't. I mean, it's just. You can just disappear right now. Because I remember I. As a child, I'd just be like, dude, there's nothing to do.

[A]

Yeah, right?

[B]

It's like, now I'm like, I wish I could go back to that time, you know what I mean? And have the dirt bikes and four wheelers and just be able to do whatever I wanted. Go to the mountains. Like, when me and my wife go up to Idaho and spend time with my dad, that's all we do. Yeah, just jump on the quads and we'll just go ride around the mountains and go hang out and enjoy nature and all the other stuff. But.

[A]

Well, it's like when you're young, right? Like. And I tell this to my son all the time, but how many times do you hear from your kid, man, I'm so bored. And I'm like. And every single time he says it now I'm like, dude, what I wouldn't give for 20 minutes of boredom. Like, just like, boredom. Like, just 20 minutes. Me and my underwear staring at the ceiling fan, no TV on, just alone with my thoughts. I don't get to do that shit. I don't get to be bored. It's a luxury I've afforded you.

[C]

Enjoy.

[A]

It, like, you know what I mean? But when you're a kid, that's how you're wired. You're like, I'm so bored all the time. You don't appreciate what you have until you get older.

[B]

You know, until you get older.

[A]

And then you get older and you're like, man, yeah, that was the.

[B]

I want to make sure my kid has stuff that.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

I didn't.

[A]

Yeah, dude.

[B]

So it's just like, yeah, dude, the.

[C]

Yeah, the. The. The. The video. I would. When I start. First started doing meth, pretty heavy. I would go to my buddy's house, and they would all be in the living room smoking, just watching the tv, watching the cameras, right? And I'm like, this is terrible. And then after about two months, once I put cameras in my house, I'm like, this is amazing. We're just all sitting around in my couch just watching the cameras, like, oh, there's the mailman. Who the that, right? And then. And that's a new mailman. We didn't have the best cameras. We had the greeny ones. That wasn't like. The picture was great. So when you got really high at night, the grainies start turning into weird.

[B]

Absolutely.

[C]

Yeah, it's. Dude, it was like, I'm like, we're sitting there like, holy. Do y' all see that? Do y' all see that right there? There's somebody standing out there and there's nobody out there but it. You would bet everything on your life that there's somebody standing out there. Yeah, it got scary. Yeah, it got crazy.

[B]

Yeah. Shadow people are a real thing.

[C]

No cable, no tv. You got it to get. Now we're watching cameras, baby.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

That's what we're doing all day.

[A]

Shadow people were so real in this guy's life that Kayin knew about him. Yeah, right.

[C]

Like, my daughter knew about shadow people. I used to see him, like, pretty often.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

The lack of sleep.

[C]

I named them.

[A]

Or an abundance of meth.

[B]

Horrible. Yeah, there is that. Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I've died, dude. There's all kinds of crazy stuff I've done. I used to, like, just leave my phone on record so I could hear stuff, and then I would listen to. I would listen to the stuff like, in my hotel room, right? So, like, I said, I was oil filled. So it's like they. They always give you a hotel or they put you in a hotel so you just, like, there. Then I would think people are coming into my room and stuff at night. And so I'd just leave my phone there, recording. And then I'd, like, start hearing people talking in the recordings because I'd be too. I'm. Dude, there's. There was so much bad stuff that happened year over year over year.

[C]

Oh, yeah. Yeah. When you see people on. On TV that, like, are high, high, high, and they commit these crazy crimes.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I'm so grateful that I never got to that point, but not justifying what they're doing. But I can see where people go insane on six days, seven days of not sleeping. Like, I think the most I ever did was like three, maybe four, and I was a loose cannon, so I couldn't imagine being like, seven days. So eight days.

[B]

And I will tell you this, that the meth has definitely changed over the years.

[C]

It's not as strong, I don't think, probably.

[B]

Well, so it's.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I work in. I work in detox, so I see it all the time. You know what I mean? As far as the meth. The meth's weird, right? Like, because I have a lot of people that will, you know, tell me. Hey, dude, like, I, you know, I did a shot and then I instantly heard people coming through the vents. And so, you know, I had to take off or whatever, you know, like the instant psychosis. Instant psychosis. Yeah, I never had the instant psychosis ever. Like, my psychosis would come where you're.

[C]

Talking after a few days.

[B]

Seven, six, seven, eight days. And then I'm like, okay, no, I need to eat. No, I need to sleep. And then I'm good for another run. Yeah, good for another run. And I continue to do that. But that was way later, Han, dude. Yeah, that was.

[A]

So you said you started when you.

[B]

Were 12 smoking weed.

[A]

Yeah. What, what do you, what do you contribute you doing that to? What do you contribute? You run into drugs and then kind of one upping, obviously four years later to when you start getting involved in meth. What. What do you think is the contributing factor to that?

[B]

So, cuz 12 is young, dude. Yeah, so. So I always, I always, man. I. So I didn't have a dad growing up, right. He left before I was born. I sense of, we have a good relationship now, right? But I didn't have a dad around when I was growing up.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so I remember telling people, like, well, you don't know what it's like to not have a dad. Like, this is why I get high. You know what I mean? Like, you know, people watching this are gonna be like, dude, I grew up without a dad. You know what I mean? And I didn't do drugs. Or there's, you know, there's plenty of different. Some of them did or there's gonna.

[C]

Be some that watches. And I know exactly how I feel.

[B]

Yeah, absolutely. Well, that was the thing, right? So I grew up, didn't have a dad in my life, you know, was always seeking acceptance. I've always been a big kid, right? I'm talking like junior high. I was like £300, you know, so I got made fun of all the time, you know, and they called me Heavy Chevy. And so because I used to drive a Chevy pickup, right? And old school 80s pickup, right? So they call me Heavy Chevy. And so, and so at one point, like I embraced it, right? And got the Chevy emblem tattooed on my arm, right? A big dick above it. And so, so like that was, that was the thing, like, because I, I always wanted to fit in. My mom played a large part in that too. You know, my mom had struggled with her own addictions, you know, when I was, when I was about 12 and she found out that I was smoking weed. That was like something that she didn't. It wasn't like she found out and then she was like, oh, we can smoke weed together. Let's smoke weed together. She started stealing my weed from Me. So. And the only reason, right, so this starts, this goes way back to a young age. The only reason I even found out that she stole my weed was because I took. So this is back when they had those big cameras, right? You know?

[C]

Yeah, big camcorder.

[B]

Big camcorder. You put the, the tape. Tape in there, you know, it's the big tape, not, not the small tape, the VCR tape. You put it in the camera. Well, I stuck it in a plant next to the, the wood stove. And she had came home from the bar and she was standing in front of the wood stove, and I could see the outline of my, you know, those old brass weed pipes, you know, the L shaped ones. I could see the outline of my weed pipe that had gone missing in her back pocket. And I'm like, oh, this chick stole my weed. So then when I confronted her about it, then it was like that, that's when this bond kind of came in, like, hey, we're both getting high. Like, you know, we can party together. And that was kind of like a downward spiral because, you know, there was one point of that whole conversation with my mom that she, you know, she. Later in life she told me, she goes, you know, I'd never really liked you until I realized that we could party together. And once I realized that we could party together, you're just so much fun. And so that's so in my brain, right? Like, well, how do you get somebody to love you and care about you? Well, you do drugs with them and then, you know, they're accepting you and they love you, right? And so, so that was kind of a downward thing, you know, so it was. I. To answer your question, overall, I would say the drug started for acceptance, right? I wanted to be accepted and loved and cared about. And, and you know, once I started slinging weed, dude, that was like a whole different game changer too, because then it was like, now you're Captain Popular. Well, now all these. Yeah, Captain Popular. Everybody wants to hang out with me. You know what I mean? And we're just, you know, smoking weed all the time and everything's cool, you know. And then obviously that goes into, you know, starting doing prescription pills. And this is back when, God, I feel so old sometimes, dude. You know, it's like this is back when all the stuff was happening with the doctors where you just walk in, I got back pain. You know, they're like 120 Hydro tens coming up. And you're like meeting those in three days or I'm gonna go sell them 10 bucks a pop, baby, all day long, you know, just start slinging pills, you know. And then we never had cocaine. Cocaine really wasn't a thing up there. Did do some, some E pill. We always get ripped off on the E pills. You know, they'd sell us bunk pills, bunk little pressies with the dolphins and stuff on them or whatever. So we really didn't have none of that. But when we, when meth, I mean, we're a little town, you know what I mean? Somebody over there is cooking it and then bringing it in and then. Or vice versa. And then next thing you know, it's just like minute I started smoking meth was game changer. Game changer. 100 game changer.

[A]

I mean, observation from the normie guy. Like, I feel like everybody's drug addiction starts with a void. And it starts with. At a younger age than maybe they even realize until I ask that question. Maybe sometimes. But it always starts with. I mean, I always feel like acceptance is like a big one. Because I remember doing drugs, weed and drinking and at younger ages to get my own acceptance.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I just, it just never was a thing where I ran away. Like, I, I never ran. I never picked up the ball and carried it to the end zone. You know what I mean? I was just like, for this fleeting moment, I am accepted. I'm popular. And I feel like everybody who comes and sits on that, in that chair and this guy, it's all, it's all about the same thing.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, that acceptance and that crossroads and it's just like the people you surround yourself with at that moment is really what causes you to take that ball and run with it.

[B]

Oh, absolutely. And, well, that's the thing too. Like, we're telling our strong. Like we're, we're talking poverty, right? Trailer. Like, I remember my, my dreams in life. Like one. A single wide trailer on one acre of property.

[C]

Let's go.

[B]

That was going to be like, I would have known that I made it if, like a trailer skirt. Yeah. Yeah.

[C]

You have the train all the way to the top.

[B]

I would have made it.

[C]

You got a porch on that too. Let's go. And I'm from a small town too.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And like, I used to call it trailer park city.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Like, and like, when growing up, I thought it was the greatest thing in the world. Like, I thought my town was just. It's the same way. Bonfires, four wheeler and dirt biking. Hunting, if you're a hunter, fishing, if you're a fisher. There's not a whole Lot of outside, like city to do, but country all day long and. But I know when I go back now, you can tell, like the meth, the drugs have ravaged the city, that I'm from the little town and like it in it. It. It's almost depressing sometimes when I go back now because I know what it was and how much it meant to me when I left. And I didn't start really doing drugs till I got to Austin. So I smoked weed and drank a little bit there. But when I came to Austin, that's where I started really partying. But yeah, it's. It's. I think, yeah, it's. But yeah, Trailer. If you had a trailer back home and you had the skirts, man. Skirt, skirt. Let's go.

[A]

You can see the wheels on my.

[B]

You can't see the wheels.

[C]

They used to always. They used to always make this joke that my mom any. When you're dissing one of your homeboys, your mom hates you so much, when you go to school, she moves the trailer so you can't find out where she moved to. Yeah. I think most people that sit in that chair, either the acceptance or that one of their parents wasn't there, that's the biggest thing that I always see.

[A]

Or combo.

[C]

Both or a combination of both. I mean, if I feel like when you have a parent that's not there for me, I'm not speaking for other people. For me, I felt like somebody that I was supposed to love, trust and supposed to do everything for me kind of gave up on me from the beginning, which put a give up mentality in my head. Right. So I gave. I give up on. It's still. I really have to fight myself not to quit still. Because. Yeah, I mean, it's for real. When shit's like terrible, I'm like this, but I gotta sit in this and I gotta figure it out. But for the longest time through my life, when was hard, I would just quit. Just quit. Just quit. And I used to always blame that on my mom because she would let me quit baseball or football when I didn't like the coach and.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And when I went to rehab, the specialist there I was blaming my mom for this. And he's like, you ever think it was your dad's fault, not your mom's, because your dad quit on you first? I was like, wow, I never really thought about that. So I think that's a combination probably of both. Yeah, I mean, we all want to fit in, especially when you're a kid.

[B]

Oh, absolutely, absolutely.

[C]

Like, I Would literally do anything. I snorted a line of salt this big when I was a freshman in high school because they put a hundred dollars together, and they. I snorted this line of salt, and I didn't finish it. So they didn't pay me the hundred dollars. And I had to go to the hospital because the nurse said I could die from that. I had it. Like, my nose was bleeding. It was terrible.

[B]

You could die from that?

[C]

Yeah, because it. I guess it sucks all the water out of your head. I don't know. They told me you could die from it. I went to the hospital.

[A]

This dude's like, I'm not doctor. I don't know. Like, I was just going off of what I said.

[C]

I know it hurt. I know the. Didn't feel good.

[B]

Lots of stuff. Heard that we put up our nose. Dude, the methadone. Snorting those methadones back in the day, it was like you, like, knew. Like, it was like you were just waiting for the pain. It was like, oh, here we go.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, it's like, oh. Oh, my head.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I've never seen anybody just snort meth and not make the face.

[B]

Oh, 100. You know, I had this weird thing. Every time that I'd snort it, I would get this popping in my ear, and so I'd, like, start hitting my ear.

[C]

Yeah. My eye would shut. My eye would hurt. I would always have to hold my eyes. I had a buddy that used to eat it. Just eat it out of the bag.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I don't know.

[B]

So. So that's the thing, right? There's all kinds of different ways to do it, but eating it. I never liked eating it because it took me to a whole nother level. It.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

First time I repair. Shoot it, it was not good. Yeah. I got weird and did some stuff that I did not want to, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So. Yeah.

[A]

Well, I'm sure. I'm trying to think about it, like, because people eat gummies, and from what I understand, that's a completely different drug than if you're smoking weed. If you're eating weed becomes a totally different thing because your body's processing it.

[B]

The way it metabolizes.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

So it's gonna be different.

[A]

It makes sense with meth. Like, that's a.

[C]

Well, meth also tastes terrible.

[A]

Well, terrible.

[B]

Terrible chemicals.

[C]

It's not like a weed. Yummy weed. Gummies probably taste like gummies, but meth does not taste fun.

[A]

Well, yeah, dude. You're cooking it with gasoline and cleaning products.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Right. I mean, yeah, it's like battery. Battery, yeah, just like whatever the. Yeah. So fast forward to how many times did you go through rehab?

[B]

So I went to rehab once in Billings, Montana. Only once.

[A]

Okay, let's.

[B]

Let's back up, right?

[A]

So was this when you got sober?

[B]

No.

[A]

Okay. Okay, cool.

[B]

Dude.

[A]

I was like, hopefully this thing doesn't just end right there.

[B]

No, no, no, no. All right, so, okay, so start the party and stuff, right? It's a young age. Fine. Meth. Like, dude, I'm gonna do this forever.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So right about that time is when I. I get in trouble. I saw a half ounce of weed to an undercover cop, right? And it was a girl I'd never sold weed to before, but she was cute, of course. You know what I mean? And so I'm like, oh, I'll take this chance.

[C]

You didn't give it to her.

[B]

Next thing. Next thing I know, right? Like, I'm getting served papers and. Well, I had left. I had left town. So seller weed. I end up moving away. Move away for like a year and a half. I come back, I was. I ended up moving to a place to work at Home Depot. Me and my cousin started smoking crack. Obviously the job didn't work out well for either of us, you know what I mean? So it was like. So then it was like, okay, I gotta come back to town. Well, I come back to town town, and my grandpa was basically. They had given him a couple weeks to live, right? And so he's going. He did something really cool. He ended up giving away all of his stuff to all of the grandkids and everybody prior to him passing. And so there was no fighting, right?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Over anything. And he was going through that. And then while he's going through that, the cops show up at the house. And so this is like, the cops show up at my house. Our. We had a trailer right next door to his. And cop show up my house and serve me papers, hey, you sold half ounce of weed to this undercover cop, blah, blah. And of course I'm pissed off, right? Oh, somebody ratted me out, blah, blah, blah. I'm getting all this trouble, you know, My grandpa asked me, and this is right before he passed. He's like. He's like, did you do that? And I remember I lied to his face. I'm like, no, I didn't promise, I didn't do that, you know, and it was a lie. And then he ended up passing. And so that there was a lot of guilt and shame kind of behind that whole piece of it. Too, you know what I mean? Like, that. I couldn't even get honest with that. They paid a bunch of money. They ended up spending a way more money than they should have helped me with lawyer fees and all the other stuff. Basically, I got seven years probation, right. I was looking at a long time in prison. Over a half ounce of weed, which is stupid, but, you know, money works, right? So they pay. They pay all this money out, give me a good lawyer, I get off. I got seven years probation. Said probation. Getting high is just like. I mean, once you get in the groove of it, it's pretty easy. You. You know what I mean? Like, you got the fake pee. You go in, do your stuff, walk out, you know, and especially if, like, you're cool with the po, like halftime, like, oh, don't worry about peeing this month. We'll get it next month. And, you know, so you kind of know what's going on. So it was never a problem. Then I get my cdl, I end up going. I quit that. Why? Ended up getting in trouble. I decided I need to leave. Right. Because that town's the problem. Yeah, of course, the town that's the problem. It's not me, you know, so. So I leave. My sister's going to hair school at the time in Idaho Falls. So I go to Idaho Falls, get hooked up with a. Pretty much a scholarship to go to school, to get my cdl. So I go to school, get my cdl, have my cdl, and I'm like, I need to go to the oil field. Because I've all hear about all these people making all this money in the oil field, and my buddies are up there working, and so they're like, hey, we can get you on with this company. And so I go up to the oil field, and then it was just like. I mean, I had money, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Coming from a trailer, you never have money. And all of a sudden, you know, salary did a hundred thousand a year.

[C]

Yeah, dude, this is great.

[B]

You know what I mean? Like, I can do that, you know, go to work and do all this stuff and. But that, that was like I said, I was partying. It was slow in the beginning, Right, Right. Be able to manage, you know, only party, you know, on the week off. Right. Because it's usually two week on one week off in the oil field. Right. So you work for two weeks and you go home for a week. Work for two weeks, go home for a week. So initially I was doing that. I had a kid. My idea of being a father is send Money home, Right? Just send money home, send presents home. You know, my kid thought I was Santa for the longest time because I would literally just bring truckloads of presents home. Truckloads, you know, going to the store. I mean, my wife's heard this story several times, but. And he'll still bring it up, you know, but remember back when we used to just push out like four or five carts at Walmart, just, you know, I had money, you know what I mean? So it wasn't, it wasn't an issue. And I'd buy him whatever he wanted. So, like, that was my idea of being a good dad. Send money home, buy him presents. Send money home, buy him presents and not be present, you know?

[C]

Well, I mean, it's not like you had, it's not like you had a. Somebody to teach you how to be a good dad either.

[B]

Right.

[C]

You know?

[B]

Right. And I didn't have that.

[C]

Right.

[B]

So. So I do the same thing. That's, that's kind of the point I wanted to get to before we jumped ahead, right. Was, was I didn't have that father figure there. And so then I repeated that exact thing with my kid.

[A]

Right?

[B]

So he, he didn't have this father figure either. Right. And so, so then I'm busy, you know, I'm getting high all the time, doing my thing. Oil filled crashes. I, Dude, I actually, I want to tell you about this too. So I'm in the oil field doing meth functioning. Everything's good. I'm job jumping out there, right? Because once you start working for one company and they find out you have any type of experience, next company is like, hey, we'll pay 20,000 more. Hey, we'll pay you 20,000 more. Hey, we're gonna, we'll do you this and this and this and we'll give you free housing and we'll do this right? So, so it's just like job jump job, jump job, just non stop. Yeah. There's so much stuff I could tell you guys that. But I ended up at this one company. I, we were on shifts, two weeks on, one week off, fixing to go home. This other guy's going to Washington on his days off, taking the train. I'm like, hey, here's the money. Go grab me some meth. Bring me an ounce of meth. He calls me when he gets out there, he goes, hey, I got your meth. But I got this really good deal on heroin. Never done heroin in my life. Like, grab me an ounce.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Give me some.

[B]

So he brings me this ounce of heroin, right? So I'm using the heroin, I'm using the meth to wake up in the morning, heroin to go to sleep. I do not know how I'm alive to this day, honest to God, I don't. Right. Cuz, like, I'd never. Nobody had ever showed me how to shoot heroin, right. I'd kind of seen it like in clips on movies or whatever, watching YouTube videos. I figured out how to do it. And so I'm shooting heroin to go to sleep, and I'm shooting meth to wake up and doing that. And it's just constant, constant thing. So my progression, right? And at this point, like, I. I know that things are getting bad, right? And especially now that I'm doing heroin and. Right. And I'm driving a commercial semi, right. So I've got a lot of stuff that could happen, you know, I mean, you get an accident, you're pissing in a cup, right?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

There's bigger consequences behind all that.

[C]

So blessed that I never killed somebody doing it.

[A]

So blessed. Yeah.

[B]

So during that time, I was like, I'm driving a truck. I just. I got high that morning. I'm driving, it's early morning, and I feel that. That mouth water come on, where it's just pouring. I'm like, oh, my God, you're going to puke. You're going to puke. Try to roll the window down as fast as I can. I can't get the window down fast enough. Projectile all over the side window, all over the front window. And I'm doing this in traffic, right? And I get pulled over the side of the road and I'm like, like, dude, you got to stop.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Like the first this. And mind you, I. I've always wanted to stop doing drugs. Once I got to a certain point, right. In the beginning, it was fun. And then it just gets to a point where it's just like, I have to. I have to do this to fill. Be. Just to be okay with myself.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Right. And. And so then I. I project off of it all that drug. I get pulled over and I'm like, you got to stop. So call your boss. Tell your boss everything that's going on. He'll call the cops, you'll get arrested, you can go to jail. If you go to jail, you can stop doing drugs. That's a great idea, right? Call my boss and I tell him, I said, hey, dude, I've been shooting meth and shooting heroin. I need help. I can't do this anymore. So instead of calling the cops, he comes. He's a great guy. Comes and picks me up, takes me home, throws me a blanket, says, go down to the basement and sit on the couch. She's like, this is gonna be a rough one for you. And I detoxed by myself in the basement on the couch, puking and all over myself. And it was a horrible experience. And I still had a bunch of heroin left over. And so minute I was done, I was like. Gave it all away. I was like, I will never do heroin again, and I've never done heroin again. That was like. It was such a bad experience. I never wanted to do that again.

[C]

You know what's crazy to me is when I hear that I've never done heroin, but I know a lot of people that I've met in recovery that have. And they say that the detox is terrible.

[B]

It's the worst thing in the world.

[C]

But yet when they get through the detox and they are. They get out of rehab, wherever it is, and they get back out in the real world, the first thing they want to do a lot of times is go back to doing heroin.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Even though they know that they're gonna have to repeat that whole process over again. And like you said, it's terrible, Right? It's just absolutely terrible.

[B]

So back to where we were going with the treatment. Right. So. So after that, never did heroin again, obviously. Went back to the meth. I could function on meth. Just do meth every day. I'll be okay. Right. Well, oil field shuts down. As soon as the oil field shuts down, I'm on my way back to Idaho, see my kid. I don't know what the hell I was doing, actually. I was just. I was. I was lost. Well, come to find out baby mama's cheating on me. Somebody else. I'm devastated. I'm high on meth. You know what I mean? So then I'm just like, I don't know what to do. I call a friend. My friend tells me, he's like, hey, I know this guy. You know, he could probably crash with him for a while and figure out what you're doing. So I'm like, okay, cool. So I land in Billings, Montana, with. It's crashing on some dude's couch that I don't even know and trying to figure out life. So I end up going to work for this guy for a while doing concrete construction, do that for a while, and end up. So he. He's going to these meetings all the time, right? And I'm like, well, what Are. What are you doing? What are these meetings for where you. Where are you going with this? Yada, yada. And he's like, man, we're starting this motorcycle club club. So then I come up with this bright idea that, you know, well, I want to go, you know, and I want to, you know, be involved. And so, of course, you know, I start going to these meetings, and I end up prospecting for this motorcycle club. And I prospect, and I didn't have a job. Sold dope. You know what I mean? So, like, that was pretty much my job. I quit, you know, doing construction with him so I could just sell Dove. Burning up all my resources all the way through with everybody that I can end up joining in this motorcycle club. Right. Which were. While I'm there, I feel that acceptance once again.

[A]

Yeah, right.

[B]

Like, there were a good group of guys. Everybody. There was. There were great guys. They did a lot of great stuff for the community. I obviously had a different agenda. Right. There's your bad apples in every group where I was one of the bad apples. So I'm selling. Not only am I selling meth, and I'm, you know, I mean, I got. I went into. I went a lot deeper than that. Yeah. I started. I was selling meth, robbing places. Was. There was a. There was a whole lot that went into that. Oh, buying guns. I was packed so many guns.

[A]

So many guns.

[B]

I was like this pencil pusher. So I just buy guns and sell them all day and burn up all my resources with all my friends, right? Showing up really shitty. Like, so I'm doing a lot of stuff that's drawn a lot of attention to this club. Okay. It's not good. Especially when you're in the early stages of starting a club. You're Already got. There's a lot of eyes on you. Anyway, so I'm doing all this dumb stuff and burn up all my resources. Can't hold the job. You know what I mean? I was working at Harley. Walking parts out the back door at Harley. You know what I mean? Like, it was just. There was so much, dude. Like, the thieving and the drug addiction and the. All of the, you know, selling drugs, buying drugs, selling guns, doing all the. All this crazy stuff that I would, you know, I would never thought I would do.

[A]

Who.

[B]

I burn up all my resources, basically. I'll burn up all my friends that would, like, let me stay on their couch and let me do this. Like, they finally get to the point where, like, dude, you got to get a job.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You got to Go do something. You know, you got to get a job. You got to get decent. You got to start contributing. I could never contribute. So they end up buying me a camper. Some friends buy me a camper, and of course, I can park it on their property, but then I'm busy getting high, doing all the weird in the camper, right? Dealing weird in the camper. Your neighbors or friends, whatever, they see what's going on, they're like, bro, you can't be doing weird, bro. Like, that's weird, you know? So. So I'm doing that stuff, you know? And eventually it got to the point where it's just like, I just. I couldn't. I couldn't keep doing everything. And plus, I'm drawing a lot of attention, you know, I ended up becoming a full patch member in the club and all that stuff, which I worked really hard to get to that point, right? But I. I just couldn't do it, right? I was drawing too much attention. I was gonna get in trouble. I was gonna go to prison. Like, I knew I was gonna go to prison. Like, at one point, I had the ATF call me, say, hey, we have a bunch of guns that belong to you that were involved in violent crimes. Like, we need to talk to you. And I'm like, yeah, we're not talking, right? Like, I'm tweaked out. Yeah, like, we are not talking. And so anyway, I end up, you know, have to go around. Club life is. It's a lot like gang life, you know?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, you gotta. You gotta ask for permission to be able to leave, to be good at it. So I had to go around to all these people that. They were really good friends, right? And they cared about me. They told me to go to rehab. So that's when I went to rehab, right? So, man, there was a lot of stuff that happened in there. Crash. My motorcycle fractured. Put a hairline fracture in my leg. It was raining, so I was turning the corner, and I put my foot down because the bike started slipping out. And I put my foot down, and I'm doing about 60 miles an hour. And when I did, as soon as it hits the ground, my knee comes up and hits me in the jaw, and it kicked the bike back up, and I rode it all the way to the bar. And we make it to the bar and walk into the. Like, I go to get off the bike, and I'm like, oh, my God, your foot's jacked up, bro. Like, this is not okay. So go in the bar, hobble into the bar, get a shot of tequila, take a shot of tequila, walk out of the bar. I'm like, dude, this is not okay. Go home, smoke a bunch of meth. I'll be fine. So next day, my leg is the size of a watermelon to my ankle.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I'm like, it's fine. I'm just gonna keep smoking, man.

[A]

That'll fix it.

[B]

Fixes it. And I said, I sent that. I sent that picture because I took a picture of my leg and I sent it to the. A girl that I was seeing out there. That whole. That whole lifestyle was wild, though, because it was like. You have groupies.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know what I mean? So it's like. And the way I was, the way I treated women and the things that I did to women was, man, I look back now, I'm like, damn, you were really a piece of.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, I'm completely different now. Right. I have a great relationship now. But it took me learning a lot about myself and going through all that stuff, but, you know. Yeah. Basically, they told me, they're like, dude, you're either gonna get in the car and go to the hospital and get looked at, or we're gonna put you in the car. And so I was like, okay, I'll go to the hospital and get looked at, and then get looked at. They're like, oh, it's a hairline fracture. Still couldn't decide it. I didn't want a job. Right. There wasn't much they could do about it. I needed to stay off of it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

A bunch of meth for.

[A]

And, yeah, that was the doctor's orders, right?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Go home. Just keep smoking meth, bro.

[B]

It'll be fine. So it's a great doctor. Yeah. Great dog. So, yeah, so I smoked meth and, you know, didn't. Dude, it got to the. It got really bad. Like, my life was falling apart. I wanted to be there. I wanted to be part of my kid's life. I wanted to be a good dad. Right. Getting high all the time. So I'd have these episodes to where I would just, you know, freak out. I'm gonna kill myself. And, you know, whatever. I don't know how many times I said that, you know, I was gonna kill myself. And I was just done. I couldn't. I couldn't do this. I can't live like this anymore. So I went to treatment. You know, I was. I basically told a bunch of people. I'm like, dude, I can't do this. I'm gonna Kill myself if I don't stop. So go to treatment or I'm headed to treatment. Basically at treatment, they're like, there's no beds. And I'm devastated. I'm pissed. I'm actually really pissed off. I'm like, how dare they not have a bed for me type of, you know, mentality. So they don't have a bed. I go home, I'm all depressed. I'm. Somebody pulled some strings and they made some phone calls. Basically, they. A bed opens up.

[A]

Found a bed.

[B]

Found a bed for you, right? So I. I go in there, I meet this guy named Bill, really good friend of mine, even to this day, who rode Harley's and used to shoot meth. You know what I mean? Like, he was sober, and he's. He's like a huge part of my story. Not because, you know, I went there and, you know, he. He did something. I mean, he did a lot for me, you know, and really what he did the most that was probably the most impactful was never judging me, right? Never judging me. Like, I went in, I did my. My treatment. I did 35 days in treatment. Best 35 days of my entire life at this point. Right? I'm, like, super stoked because I go in, you know, they introduced me to aa. I'm not an AA guy. I'm like, oh, yeah, this is not gonna work. You know, they tell me to get a sponsor and, you know, do the stuff and, you know, I do the 1, 2, 3, shuffle. You know, don't. Won't commit to anything. And eventually comes time when I can go home. So where do I go? I go back to the same people, places and things. I go back to where I used to break up on my dope. I find the biggest rock I can that's on the floor.

[A]

Yeah, this is.

[B]

This is one of those gross things that I was going to say specifically for the podcast. Okay, so you all tweakers know, right? Any tweaker that's out there, peas and bottles. I don't know why the. We pee in bottles.

[C]

I still do sometimes.

[B]

It is. It's just a thing. You just piss in bottles?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So before I went to treatment, I had a bottle of piss, and I'm like, hey, I'm gonna take all these syringes that are unused, and I'm gonna put them in that bottle of piss so that I won't use them ever again. So the day I would get out, I go back to same people, places and things. Like I said, I find biggest rock I Can. It's like a floor where I was breaking up Doe fat and I went and dug those bottles, those needles out of that piss bottle and then shot to open them.

[A]

I mean, it's your piss, dude.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, it's kind of sanitary when you really think about it. I mean, toilet water, rain water, piss water.

[B]

No, I did lots of toilet water.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Lots of toilet water. A lot of Mountain Dew, dude.

[C]

I don't know why. Yeah, Mountain Dew is, like, really big with people that do meth. Oh. It's like, the drink of choice for some reason.

[B]

Well, it's not only drinking. I mean, if you shoot up with it, you taste it.

[C]

Ah. Is that why? So most of the people that I did smoked meth with, they also drank Mountain Dew. I didn't know that they were also shooting up with it.

[B]

You can. You can. I shot up with all kinds of.

[C]

Really?

[B]

I shot up with water from the bowl of the toilet in a truck stop.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Nice.

[C]

Real sanitary.

[A]

That's not sanitary. Digging a syringe out of your piss. Completely sanitary. I get. I get that. I understand that.

[C]

I literally.

[B]

That's that obsession piece. You know what I mean? Like, I will go to any lengths to get high. Like, I. That's what I do.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, I get high at the end of the day.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I still pee in bottles. And when I'm driving and I have to, because I can't hold my piss.

[A]

Yeah, but you're not saving them. Do you save him?

[C]

I throw them in the back seat until I clean my car out.

[A]

Dude, come on, man.

[C]

I tell you all the time, like.

[B]

If you went out and looked sober.

[A]

Buddy, if you went out and looked.

[B]

At my car, like, when people.

[C]

When people at work are like, hey, can you give me a ride down there? I'm like, I will, but just know that I don't do meth anymore. Even though my car looks exactly like I still do, it's gonna look exactly like I still do.

[A]

Throw your piss away. Can you do that for me? Like, I don't care that I actually.

[C]

Cleaned the car out the other day for the first time in a long time.

[B]

Well.

[C]

But, yeah, I still. Because I can't hold my piss. I literally cannot do it. Like, I got a piss right now so bad.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And I'm surprised I haven't pissed myself. I got an empty bottle.

[B]

Y' all care.

[C]

That hole's not big enough. I gotta be a Gatorade bottle and just. Can't just piss in an Aquafina.

[A]

Oh, Jesus, dude. Yeah, that Is pretty wild.

[B]

Yeah. So I go to treatment, get out.

[A]

Of treatment, go right back.

[B]

Back to it. Right. And like immediately or no, during. So yeah, it was. Dude. And then I'm like going to meetings. Like, I'm showing up at meetings, shooting dope in the bathroom at the meeting, going into the meeting, not thinking that all these tweakers are going to know I'm high.

[A]

Right.

[C]

Yeah. At least you weren't trying to sell to them, though.

[B]

No, I didn't. I never did that.

[C]

Yeah. And so then some people do that.

[B]

Then it got to the point where like, you know, the guilt and shame kicks in and it's like, I don't need that, you know, so then I'm homeless. Well, I got that RV there at the camper. My buddy kicks me out of his driveway, moves it to Walmart parking lot. This is back when you could park at Walmart, you know, for weeks or whatever. And then.

[C]

Do they not let you still do that?

[B]

I don't know if they still let.

[A]

You do that without an rv, but.

[C]

Probably cars because I'm pulling sometimes when I go to Walmart or especially on the weekends because I go work out early to get it out of the way. And I'll go through Walmart sometimes and there's people out there that are sleeping in their cars and I, I think Walmart has a policy where they won't tell you to leave.

[B]

Yeah, some like that. All, all we did is like move the camper around the parking lot every so often. You know what I mean?

[C]

Make it look like someone else knew something new pulled in.

[B]

And, well, that was the thing. So I'm like selling, I'm. I'm selling dope out of the, the trailer. Right. Got all the other crap going on. Meet this homeless girl. Decided to be this good. Great idea. If I sell a camper, trade the camper for an eight ball of dope, move in with the homeless girl, her two dogs. We'll just live life.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, So I did sold the camper, move in with her. Yeah. So obviously me and her, Me and her start dating. You know, we're together or whatever. She's seeing guys on the side to make us some money, and then we're taking the money and getting high with. Then she starts working at a sex shop right out there. And so then I'm like just showing up at the sex shop to go to the back private rooms.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Right. So I'd go to the private room so that I could shoot dope in the private rooms and you know, get weird for a minute. And so. But the problem is with that. So then it turned into like, I needed money, right? So then it was like, how can we get money? Oh, you're working in the sex shop. Well, we hang out with a bunch of tweakers. They would all, you know, so then I start walking boxes. And when I mean boxes, I'm talking boxes. More sex toys than any one person should ever have.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And trading them to the dope man.

[A]

You know, that's pretty cool. For drugs.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

You know what's funny is I. I used to get this guy in Flugerville that I used to buy from. His entire garage was just. That was traded to him. And he had some cool ass. He really did. He had some cool. And it was like, not. He's like, you know, you're one of the only people. People that ever bring me money. I'm like, really? And he's like, yeah. He's like, most people just trade me, like, that lamp right there or that. Like, he. But he had some cool shit. Paintings and this. And he had a pool table. Someone traded him for a fucking eight ball. A badass pool table. And that was. But his entire garage was Tweaker Trades. That's what it literally was. It was insane.

[A]

It's a great show name.

[C]

Tweaker trades.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Dude, it's made that up on the.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, like, let's go.

[A]

Hey, A and E. A and E.

[C]

Trades, baby.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But.

[C]

Yeah, his entire garage was just. That was traded to him.

[A]

That's crazy.

[B]

Yeah. So then. I don't know. I did that two years, man. I was homeless, living in the car.

[C]

Isn't it crazy how, like, I've heard, like, Jay Klein, for example, he talked about when he was homeless.

[A]

Yeah, he.

[C]

How he had places to go, but he chose that he didn't want to go by the rules of those places that he had to go 100. So I'm gonna sleep on the streets because now I don't have a. I don't have to show up. I don't have to have a curfew or this or that. I'm just gonna do what I do.

[B]

Well, what happens too, though, is you burn down those resources even though you have places to go, and you, you know, even if you're showing up over there, you're disrespectful of.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, like, you're doing a lot of stuff. That's. You know what I mean? Yeah. Watching porn and jerking off all day in somebody's house, bro. Like, it's pretty up, you know what I mean? Like, so you're. You're doing just some shady ass. You know, you burn those resources and people are like, dude, you can't stay here. You know what I mean? No matter how much they love you and care about you. Like, your addiction has really just taken you over at that point, you know?

[C]

And they are for not letting me stay here.

[B]

Oh, and they are such a piece of you guys. They won't.

[C]

You won't let me stay.

[B]

How dare you get mad at me for jerking off in your shower for two hours. What the is wrong with you?

[A]

There's black light in here.

[B]

There's only one. Yeah, there's only one bathroom in the whole place. Like, are you done? You done? What are you doing in there, bro?

[A]

No shaving.

[C]

Shut up. I had someone stay here less than a month ago. I won't say his name, but reached out. He said, hey, I need help. Blah, blah, blah. I'm like, all right, you can stay here for the weekend. My daughter's not here. It lasted one night. Like, he. He was cool for the first day. And then, like, you don't think that I know that you're taking a two hour shower? Like, come on, bro. Like, I know what you're doing in there. You're smoking in there. And then when he left for the. To go get some food, I went in his room and I checked the windows. Unlocked. And the blinds are all up. I've never unlocked that window ever. Right? So I call him and he. I call him and say, hey, bro, you gotta. Like, I'm gonna. I'm gonna get you a hotel for a week is what I did. Might get you a hotel for a week, but you can't stay here. He said, why? Because you were smoking in the room. Like, you're doing dope in the room. I know you were. No, I swear to God, bro, the window is unlocked. Oh. I didn't unlock it. I swear to. Dude, I put that on God. It's like, bro, you're talking to a ex drug addict, right? Like, I. I swore on God for everything.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Like, I. God was my witness on everything. Yeah, bro, you got. So I. I put him in. I did put him in a hotel room, and he did pay me back about a month later, which is kind of crazy.

[B]

Nice.

[C]

Good.

[B]

You got sober.

[C]

He got sober for a month.

[B]

Yeah, that's part of. It's part of the deal. You know what I mean? Like, I was trying to get sober multiple times throughout that. That all those times, right? It's like, dude, you know, call the boss, tell the boss, get arrested. You know what I mean? I'll be able to stop, right? Any way I can stop, you know, try to figure it out. But I picked up pieces along the way from each. Each time that it, you know, I.

[C]

Got a little learning.

[B]

Little learning.

[C]

A little bit here, a little bit here. Yeah.

[B]

So what made it stick, man? So leaving Montana, right, was do this lick on this, dude. Still a bunch of stolen guns. Trade a bunch of stolen guns for a stolen car. Because me and that girl, obviously. Yeah. Check this out. So me and that girl, obviously, we had a very toxic relationship.

[A]

I was gonna beat on each other.

[B]

All kinds of stupid, you know what I mean?

[A]

Sounds like the most healthy. So foundation.

[B]

She hits. She punches me in the face while we're driving down this. The road, right? And I get pissed off. And so I pull the car over and I go redline it and blow the head gasket.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So now we're homeless. Homeless. Like, you just ruined the house, dude. Like, good job, dude. And so I do this lick on this, dude. Trade a bunch of stolen guns for a stolen car. I'm like, dude, we just got to go to Texas. If we can make it to Texas, won't be able to get drugs. We can stop. You know what I mean?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Just gotta go now.

[A]

There's drugs in Texas, dude.

[B]

Yeah, so. So my logic, my thinking behind that was like, if I could just make it around mom and sister, right? Yeah, I'll be all right, you know, I won't know anybody. I can't get anything. I'll be fine. No drugs in Texas. Yeah, that was nuts, you know? And that was the thing. I burned up all my resources, right? Sister don't want to give me money. Yeah, nobody wants to give me money. I mean, I was such a dick to my sister, dude, for so many years, dude. So many years. Call her, you know, with all these excuses. Oh, I need contacts. Oh, I need this. I'm homeless, you know, like, can you send me some money? You know, whatever. And so, like, I mean, I. I was really shitty to my sister. We have a great relationship nowadays. She is amazing for putting up with all the. That she put up with.

[C]

My methadone prescription's about to run out.

[B]

Whatever.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, I need to get eye exam, Right? Well, I don't take care of myself anyway because I'm tweaking and I'm not changing my contact, so I'm sleeping with the same pair of Contacts for six months, eight months at a time, right? So I can make the one year prescription. Last six years. You know what I mean? Stupid. And so anyway, nobody wants to give us money, right? So I got stolen car and we can go. You know, we had enough money to leave, we left, made it to the next town. And then, you know, we're out of money, out of gas, you know, so we're going into like Albertsons. I'll do just do grocery cart runs. Just run into Albertson's, load up a cart, bring it out, throw it in, drive to the next parking lot, figure out where we're going to do, go sell some steaks or whatever to make some money to get some gas, to go to wherever. Then finally my aunts decided they'd throw me some cash and made it to. Went to Colorado, bought a joint. This is when like the, the shops, you buy weed legally over the counter in Colorado. You know what I mean? So it's like, stop there, get a joint, heading to Texas. Three hours outside of Georgetown. She's speeding. Never had a driver's license her whole life, right? So she's speeding through this town. I just lit that joint, get pulled over. Like, I got warrants. We're. I got a ton of warrants, bro. I'm leaving the town where the, the cops are calling me, saying, hey, we need to talk because we have a bunch of guns that belong to you. Oh, by the way, you get pulled over in these cars all the time. You don't go to court. Apparently they put a warranty over your arrest. I know I'm in trouble, right? So she, she goes, he takes her, goes back to the car. She jumps in the back seat of the car and they're having a conversation and she gets out and she walks up to the passenger side where I'm sitting. She said, give me your driver's license. I'm like, okay, here's the driver's license. She goes back, hands did cops driver's license. She comes back to the passenger side, she says, get in the driver's seat and drive. And I'm like, shut the hell up. Like we're in a stolen car. Like we have fictitious paper plates on this car. Yeah, like this is a setup. She's like, no, drive. He just wanted to see there was a licensed driver in the vehicle. Just drive. Never ran my. Never ran the plates, never ran the id. Never ran anything. Let us go end up in Georgetown. Perfect, right? She won't stop talking about getting high. I'm like, dude, I can't get high anymore at all. Like, it's gotta stop. So I told her. I'm like, dude, we're done. We can't do this anymore. Like, you take the car, you go back. I'm. You know, I gotta be done. Start working it. Start running heavy equipment for Austin wood recycling out here and doing that. And talking to the guys at work one day and decide to tell them, hey, dude, you know, I really love mushrooms. So, you know, I got a guy showing up at work and throwing me an ounce of mushrooms. I can do mushrooms. Mushrooms wasn't my problem.

[A]

Yeah, meth.

[B]

So I can do mushrooms. Do the mushrooms. Great trip. Trip balls, dude. It was a great experience. No problems. I can do cocaine. Cocaine wasn't my problem was the meth.

[C]

Don't even like cocaine.

[B]

I don't even like cocaine, bro. It's a waste of my time, dude. I want to be up for seven days, not, you know, 30, 45 minutes, and then be pissed off.

[C]

Mean mugging everybody that looks at me, right?

[B]

So. So. So I, you know, started doing the cocaine and then started doing the. Obviously fall right back into it, right? Doing the math. But I'm out here, right? I'm trying to put things back together as. As time goes on, right? So I'm calling the judge. Hey, judge. Like, you know, I moved out to Texas. I had a drug problem. I couldn't stop. I'm still getting high out here. But he doesn't need to know that, right? Like, I couldn't stop, blah, blah, blah. Came out here to get sober. He's like, cool, we're gonna. We're gonna just get rid of all these. Don't come back, fine, no problem. And then, you know, just try to. I had let my CDL lapse in that time, so then I had to go back to school, get my CDL again. And then, of course, when I go back to school, then I was like, that's when it just really peaked again. Because it was like, yeah, I met this girl out here, and then we start using together. And then minute we start using together, then it's like, okay, I'm all in. Yeah, we're gonna get the CDL and do that. So anyway, fast forward. How did we get sober and what made it stick? So meet this girl on Plenty of Fish.

[C]

All right.

[B]

Yeah, Meet this girl and her tagline on Plenty officials. I got 16 months clean and sober. Like, cool. I got two years clean and sober.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, as I'm rolling the ball. Rolling the ball, dude. And go meet her. She's. She's at Oxford. Go meet her. You know, we hook up, start hating, and then it's. God, I was such a. Of piece. Piece of dude. So. So it was just like. It was just like this. This game all of a sudden, right? She doesn't know that I'm getting high. And so, like, I'm showing up at her Oxford, and I'm shooting dope in the women's house at the Oxford house, like, putting everybody's sobriety in jeopardy. You know what I mean? And do that for a while. And she finally sees through all the. She's like, dude, you're a loser. You have a CDL in your pocket. You're working at Marco's Pizza for five bucks an hour as a delivery driver. Like, what the is wrong with you? She leaves, of course. Like, you know, I do what any good, sick, toxic boyfriend would do, and, oh, because you left me, I relapse.

[A]

How dare you?

[B]

Right? So I blame this whole deal on her, and. And thank God that she had boundaries and a good sponsor, because basically, her sponsors, like, cut this out of your life 100%. You know, if you want to help him, that's how you help him, you know? And she referred. She gave my number to my first sponsor. Not my first first sponsor, but my first sponsor that I went through the work with, and. And he reached out to me and. And said, hey, Tyler, you know, I heard you might want some help. And, you know, I got a couple of men's 12 step meetings that I go to on Mondays and Tuesdays. If you'd like to come, we'd love to have you. And I'm like. I called him back. I'm like, I don't want your help. I don't need your help. Then I don't know, three hours later, I'm on the phone balling.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm like, dude, I gotta stop. I can't do this. I know what I need to do. I've been to treatment. Same thing I tell you at all your meetings. And any treatments you ever go to, they tell you the same exact thing. Get a sponsor, work steps. Get a sponsor works. You know, some of these people that go 16, 17, 18 treatments, get a sponsor, work steps like, find your own path of recovery, right? But the one thing that I've learned through my path was this. I can't put any substance in my body, no matter what it is. Can't have a drink. Can't do a pill. Can't do anything. Mushrooms led me to coke. Coke led me to meth. That's very forefront of my mind all the time. Like, I can't do anything if I have a beer. You know what I mean? I would, I would. I. I want to think that I could have a beer, but I'm too afraid to try to have a beer because if I have a beer and then that leads me to, oh, I can smoke some weed and then I smoke some weed and then I can.

[C]

Where does it stop?

[B]

Where does it stop? Right? So I just don't do anything. I haven't done anything in six years. So. But she, okay, where are we at? She leaves, she leaves me. This guy calls me and basically it's like, hey, we, you know, we need to work steps. I need a sponsor. He's like, okay, so come to this Monday night men's meeting. Still have drugs left. Show up, go down. So I go, go leave the house early to go to the meeting. I show up in McDonald's parking lot an hour before the meeting and I'm shooting dope in McDonald's parking lot because I know that nobody in that meeting is gonna accept me for who I am. Right? I have all this, it's just this negative self talk that's an addict. That's, you know, I don't even think it's necessarily just an addict.

[A]

Right, Yeah, I gotta show up normal.

[B]

People in general, you know what I mean? Like that we have this negative selft talk. We're not good enough. Nobody's going to like you. You can't do that piece of whatever, you know, the case may be. And so I shoot meth in the parking lot and then go to this sober house, to this meeting. And I'm sitting in the meeting and you know, I'm crying about the girl and I don't have a relationship with my kid. And you know, I unemployable, I live in this trashy ass camper and everything in life is just terrible, terrible. And he holds up the big buck and he says, dude, you're the last person to know that you're gonna be okay. He goes, if you just do this and apply this to your life each and every day, you don't ever have to drink or use drugs again. I'm like, that may work for a guy like you, but that's never gonna work for somebody like me, you know? And so we finish up the meeting, we walk out, he follows me out of my car. He says, I want you to do two things. I want you to make your bed, I want you to say your prayers. And then give me a call tomorrow. Still had drugs left. So I go home, made my bed military style, right? Clean corners, everything's good. Put a blanket on top of it so I can sleep on top of it so I don't have to remake it tomorrow, right? Because I'm lazy as so. And so I mix up a shot, I do a shot, I sit down on the edge of the bed and I wasn't. Me and God have always had this problem, right? And a lot of it has childhood trauma from church, where I was at a church that basically had, you know, I started getting piercings, had my ears pierced, got my tongue pierced. They're like, you can't wear that here. You know? And basically they told me not to come back if I was going to continue to wear it. And I was going to continue to wear it. And so I figured if, you know, person in a position of power that was over, the church, didn't want me there, then maybe God didn't want me.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And so. So I spent a lot of time running from God, but he told me to stay in my prayers. And so I sat on the edge of that bed and I said, dude, you. I said, dude, you better show me something because I don't believe you're there and I don't believe you exist. That was the last day I've done a drug. Obviously, I got busy with 12 steps, you know what I mean? I went through all 12 steps. I did all 12 steps in about a month, you know what I mean? During that time of doing the 12 steps, you know, I was concerned about the girl in the beginning. My sponsor's like, bro, she, you. She already told you what she wants. She wants you to leave her the alone. Leave her alone. Respect what she's telling you, you know? So I go through the steps, get through the steps. I still care about this girl, right? Which just a God thing, right? The way this worked out. But it's, you know, I'm praying for her every day, right? Because I was told I needed to pray, right every day. That was something that, once we started getting in the step work, it was like, hey, you need to pray. Prayer, meditation, prayer, meditation, prayer meditation every day.

[C]

So I did.

[B]

So I'm praying for this girl, not to God, please give me this girl so that I, I can have her in my life. Or God do this and this and this, right? Like using him as some genie. Yeah, right. But it was like, hey, I just want her to be happy with whatever. So about a month, month and a half Two months goes by, I've been praying for her every day. I get. My sponsor tells me, he says, hey, I haven't heard about Amanda in a long time. He says, so why don't you write a letter to her? So I take that as, oh, he wants me to send her this big ass long text and tell her how great I am and how good I'm doing at all this stuff. Right? Because it's total ego at this point. Right, Right. And so I write to this long text, right? Three page text, you know, hey, I'm sponsoring these guys and I'm doing this and sober and blah, blah, blah. No response. About a week goes by, I get this text from a different number. It's like, hey, you've been weighing on my heart a lot lately. I just wanted to make sure you're okay. Like, oh, oh, it's Amanda. Hey, you got my text. It's like, what are you talking about? You've been blocked on all platforms. Like, I never got anything. You know what I mean? And so, like, I had. I had this epiphany of like, oh, my God, dude. Like, you've been weighing on my heart a lot lately. Just wanted to make sure you're okay. You've been weighing on my heart. I've been praying for every day. So maybe this prayer stuff actually works. You know what I mean? And so, like, that was like this epiphany that I had of like, you know, maybe. Maybe that's something he should be doing. So of course I go, I tell her, I'm like, hey, we're talking again. You know, can we get back together and let's get a place? She's like, no. Yeah, right, dude, you're not getting a place with me. It's not real.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

She's like, you need to go sub reliving. I'm like, what do you mean? What are you gonna do? She's like, I'm gonna move in with these other four guys. Right? So then my head's all twisted up, like, she's moving to these other four guys, and, you know, they're just gonna be having orgies and all this stuff over there all the time.

[A]

Yeah. Your mind goes to the immediate displacement.

[B]

Right? Because. Because that's. Those are the relationships that I lived in for so long that that's what I was used to. Right. And I played a huge part in doing that to other people as well. Right. It was a direct reflection of me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

100. It was a direct reflection of how I treated people and the things That I thought of and the things that I did.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, had nothing to do with her. Right. So she goes and does that. I went to Oxford on Oxford for six months up at Bell. Great experience. I was in the three man room, you know, sharing room with three other dudes and did that for six months. After six months, she's like, you know, we start, you know, we're talking, we're. We're, we're taking it slow, you know, casual dates, doing stuff like that, spending time with each other, you know, it's still Oxford, so she can come spend the night or I can go spend the night, you know, and so. So it worked out. And then it was like, hey, it's time to get our own place. You know, are we cool with that? She's like, yeah. So we ended up getting our first apartment, which, by the way, was horrendous to be able to find a place with a convicted felon.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Which had nothing to do with me. That was all her, Right? Damn it, dude. Like, what the hell?

[C]

I can only imagine. Because for me to find a place, I'm not a felon, but my credit was terrible.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So I used to have to put like three months up front and then pay your last month, too.

[B]

First, last.

[C]

And then here's another deposit on. I would have to pay like 10 grand to move into a place. And so if I was a felon on top of that. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

So. Well, so luckily. And we looked, man, we looked. And then, you know, it's like we're trying to. It's like, hey, do we just put it. Put the house under or the rental under your name? And then, you know, but we're trying to live. In principle, we're trying to live in integrity. Right. So we don't want to. We don't want to do that. So eventually we find somebody that's like, hey, we're willing to give you guys a chance. We're gonna. You're gonna have to pay double deposit. Yeah. You know, first, last, and double deposit. So it cost us some money to get in there. We get in there and then, you know, ne. My next question is like, hey, when are we gonna get married? She's like, are you talking about you're not even gonna meet any of my family till you at least have a year sober? You know, so it was like. And then co happened and then I couldn't go meet her parents, but got my son back. Son started coming back into my life. When I first got sober, you know what I Mean, it was strictly just summer coming out for the summer, spend a little bit of time with us for summer. Summer, yeah. And then. But no, my son's back in my life. Me and Amanda are married.

[A]

Hey.

[B]

Yeah, that's. That's what she plays in.

[A]

You showed her. Yeah, you showed her. Yeah, he showed you. That's all I'm going to tell you, dude. That's. I remember this story. At least that part.

[B]

You did.

[A]

You did tell me how you guys connected out at alr. It was a beautiful story.

[B]

Yeah, it's. It's wild because, I mean, I definitely married up, dude. She's one of the. She's a great stepmom treats. You know what I mean? She.

[A]

I'm gonna agree with you.

[B]

You did marry up 100. I mean, that's just. That's definitely what it is. I mean, she takes care of me, she takes care of my kids. We run businesses together. We've run multiple businesses together. You know what I mean? She. I mean, she'll. I'm the dreamer. You know what I mean?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

She's like, okay, well, how are we gonna do this?

[A]

Yeah, she's. You're the. You're the dreamer, and she's the common sense. Okay. Hey, like, there's an application to this. Like, I get it, man. That's. You guys are perfect yin and yang, you know?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

For. For each other.

[B]

And we got into, you know, started the sober houses, you know.

[A]

Yeah. So talk to me about some of the 57 businesses that you're involved in right now that you make this poor lady over here have to learn about everything about them.

[B]

But, oh, yeah, she did, trust me. She. She definitely helped me with my real estate stuff by far. That was, you know, all the studying and the stuff that we had to go through for that, you know? So I started. Initially, I got sober. When I got sober, during that time of us living on Runberg, which. That's where our first house was, on Runberg.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So I get sober on Runberg.

[A]

Dope.

[B]

Right. Gunshots. I mean, our first week we moved in.

[C]

Talk about putting it all out there.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Like, we're for. This shit's either gonna work.

[B]

Well, that was the thing. So. So I. I do want to stress, right. Like, when I first got sober, it was. I went to at least my first 90 and 90. It was like I went to a meeting every single day.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And then it was like at least three meetings a week.

[C]

Right.

[B]

And then it was like, as time went on, then it was like, church is like, you're going to church, like that's just a non negotiable. You go to church. You know what I mean? And there's just, you know, the meetings like over the past six years. Right. Like I found what works for me specifically where I can balance my time with God, family and sobriety.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, and so. Yeah. So some of the businesses we start. So I started a non profit right out the gate, got sober, started Outcast Ministries.

[A]

Outcast ministries.

[B]

Outcast ministries. ATX.com look us up. Yeah, you can see my testimonial on there actually. It's pretty, it's pretty wild. That's the testimonial the church did for me when I first got sober. I'm a lot skinnier in there. You'll see.

[A]

It's a badass booth, dude. That was a, that was a, that was the first booth I went to.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Outcast Ministries started that and we started away out recovery homes and that was me and, me and Connor, my brother in law, which there's a whole story behind that too. That was great dude. Great dude. Amazing dude. I love him to death. He was my sponsor. There's a whole story behind that. Dude. Connor was a trash fire. I don't mind him seeing this because he was, he was such a trash. I mean he's killing it life right now.

[A]

He really is.

[B]

So I'm so blessed to have him in my corner just because I mean he was my sponsor. He was a trash fire. Like every week he's calling me. He's like, me and him got hooked up because of the ministry.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because I was doing Outcast. We had a mutual friend that referred him to, to work with me and so we, you know, we're going through the work and it was just like every week he's calling me, hey, dude, I'm getting high. I'm like, hey, you know you have to tell your sober house that you're getting high. Like we need to live in integrity and you're going to get kicked out and be homeless again and we're going to have to figure this out again. Okay. Goes and tells, calls me next week. Hey, doing this. Hey, I just, I just threw out a eight ball of meth in front of my house. I'm like, cool, I'll be there in a minute.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Is that meth ain't going to stay in that trash can. You're going to go, you're going to go get it. You know what I mean? And it was just like, just non stop stuff. And then of course him. And so me and my sister are mending our relationships.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Because I was such a dick.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

She's going through this really bad relationship with this guy that was just a. He was a piece of. So she's going through this bad breakup and she calls me and she's like, hey, can we go do dinner? I'm like, yeah, let's go do dinner. So Connor, he had been. I remember what he was doing. He was doing something at the house and sitting on my couch. And I said, hey, you gotta pack it up. You gotta go, dude, I gotta go have dinner with my sister. And goes, got a sister? And I just laughed. I'm like, get the out of here, bro. You can't even talk to her until you at least have a year. So he's like, what does she look like? So I pull up a picture of her. He goes, I'm gonna marry that girl. And I go, no, you're not. He's like, can I just go to dinner with you guys? Like, I ain't got nothing else to do. I'm like, fine, come on. We go to dinner, they meet, she totally blows him off, ignores him. I mean, he's one of my sponses, bro. You know, he's like, he says, show. She don't want nothing to do. It blows him off. And then she drove this giant sport clips truck that was wrapped in sport clips decals.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So all of a sudden, because I'm so well known in the recovery community, I have all these people that are calling me, hey, why is your sister's truck parked in front of John Brown Sober living. Hey, why is your sister's truck. And I'm like this mother. So. So anyway, me and him, you know, he obviously stopped being my sponsor after that once I found out that, you know, but it was the best thing that could have ever happened. You know, I've been blessed with, you know, beautiful niece and nephew and cute kids.

[A]

Dude.

[B]

And. Yeah. And he takes great care of my other nephew. And, you know, he's got a business and he takes care of his family and, you know, it's just amazing. You know, I'm just like that Connor is like. I'm just so. Like I said, I'm so grateful to have him in my corner because it's so cool to be able to watch that. I. I know all the stuff. You know what I mean? And like, what? That was the other thing too. Snowpocalypse happens.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

Snow apocalypse happens and he gets snowed in or snowed out of his sober living and snowed into my sister's house.

[A]

Yeah, of course.

[B]

Of course.

[A]

Yeah, right.

[B]

Why would you not? So we didn't have power for a week, you know, and so we're. I mean, I'm crazy. I'm from the country, so I know how to, you know, we're going to survive. You know, this ain't a big deal.

[C]

All I needed was a phone charger, bro.

[B]

All I did is I just went to Walmart, stole all their pallets. We had a fireplace in the house. You know what I mean? Just go chop them all up. And then we went up to. We went up to Trader Joe's. Trader Joe's. All their stuff went out. So they threw all their out.

[C]

Oh, no.

[B]

And so we, like, literally went back there and just loaded the pickup truck full of steaks, dude. And so we had like a truck full of steaks or just fry steaks up and whatever.

[C]

Destiny was in sober living at Oxford, and she was like, hey, so I've been here long enough. You want to come over here and stay? Cuz we have power over here. I'm like, why would I stay over there? She's like, cuz, you don't have no power. I'm like, bro, I used to go without heat and electric, and all I need is a cell phone. I don't need else.

[B]

Right.

[C]

I have my cell phone. It's charged. But you can come stay with me.

[A]

Yeah. Got blankets, man.

[C]

That was good. I was good to go, bro.

[B]

Yeah. So they get, you know, they get snowed in. And then, of course, Amanda goes in the bathroom too, take a shower, and finds all the pregnancy tests. So Connor knows. He was my sponsor. He knows. Obviously, I. I went way more in depth with Connor about, you know, my past and the stuff that I used to do. Sure. And so he knew. You know what I mean? And it was like. I remember Amanda's like, dude, you better tell him what's going on. He's gonna kill you guys. Like, this is not okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, and he came to the house, and the first thing he did, he said, called me out on the front porch, said, hey, I need to talk to you. Come outside. And said, I got your sister pregnant. And he, like, did this little cheek turn thing. Like he was, like expecting me to hit him or something. And it was like, I just gave him a big old hug. And I'm like, dude, make it right. Take care of her.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And he did. And he has. He's done a great job. But, you know, sober Houses. We, you know, we started doing the sober house thing, you know, open the sober houses. And man, it was, it was a great experience. It's great experience. But I turned those over to Connor at the beginning of this year. You know, Connor's. And he's done great things with them, you know, and the people that he's got working over there are fantastic individuals. They're, you know, they run a great program over there.

[A]

I went and met up with them over there. Him and your sister. Yeah, to. To do some shirts and met up with them and talked to them at one of the sober livings and yeah, man, those are really good people. Super cute kids and yeah, dude, you.

[B]

Yeah, I'd lucked out on that, right? And what's cool is like, I don't.

[A]

Know if he did, man.

[B]

If you look at, if you look at the way that God's kind of worked in my life and just weaved these threads through all these different peoples in my lives, right? That brought us all together at different times and the things that he's done, it's just like so astonishing to me just because it's like I was so broken, right? And I remember like the. I, Dude, I remember my addiction like it was yesterday. I remember trying to overdose and die like multiple times, you know, and being pissed off that I couldn't even kill myself, right? And then this negative selft talk walks in, right? I wake up and I'm like, dude, what the is wrong with you? You can't even kill yourself. Right?

[C]

Right.

[B]

You know, what kind of person are you? Yeah, like, you know, and so it was like, I remember doing all that stuff and I remember being in those. The worst possible positions and places I could have ever been in my life. But then I also, like, if I wouldn't have gone through the things that I've gone through, I wouldn't be where I'm at now and I wouldn't be able to help the people that I've helped along the way and had being able to watch those people thrive in life. You know what I mean? And really. But yeah, so it's a sober ladies Rolled a semi in. Not this last October, but the October before, right? Drove truck for 20 years. Rolled the semi. As soon as I rolled the semi, it was, figure out your career. What are you gonna do? You know what I mean? And I'm dead sober. When I rolled the semi, you know?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Rolled a semi and it was like, do I want to continue doing this? I mean, it was bad. It was a bad rollover like, truck rolled twice. Snapped the trailer off. The truck drove over the top of the truck. I mean, it would have killed me if I would have had my seatbelt on.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Didn't have my seat belt on. You know what I mean? So, like, that whole thing wasn't wild experience too, because, you know, I ended up having to do 11 months physical therapy, stuff like that. And while I was out for physical therapy, it was. I was going stir crazy trying to figure out what I was going to do. So I went to school, got my real estate license, started building a real estate business. Day before, I was supposed to go back to work driving truck, which I was miserable. I would come home every day and I would tell Amanda, I'm like, dude, I can't. I hate this job. Dude, I can't do this for. I hate this job. I hate this job, you know, But I could never quit, you know, And I feel like I kind of got pushed to, you know, and that was scary. You know, probably one of the most scary things that ever happened to me. Right. This truck rolls over, you know, and then it's like, well, what are you going to do about your career? Yeah, right. Like, you can go back and drive truck. Well, do you want to drive truck? Like, dude, it's dangerous. Like, it is super, super dangerous. Yes, I can go drive truck. I would be perfectly fine driving truck. But I was miserable every day. That's something that I really want to keep. Keep doing. The answer is no, right? So it was like the day before I was supposed to go back to work, I got a call from Dan, and he's like, hey, dude, do you want to come work over here at Rise? I'm like, yeah. So I started working at Rise. So I work at Rise also. And then I just opened up a staging company for my real estate business, brother. So, yeah, that should cover. That's it, right? Yeah, covers it for right now.

[C]

I was in church today, and they said something. They were talking about, like, God saving us, right? And they. He said that God didn't save us for us to sit. To sit it out. He saved us so we could share it on. And I was like, man, that's an AA thing. Like, that's a. That's a. I guess that's a life thing.

[A]

I say it all the time, man. Like, a. In church are very similar.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, like, it's very like me being the outsider, you know, I. It's a. It's an odd combination being in a room of therapy and church. Like, it's a little more open, it's a little less judgy.

[C]

100.

[A]

But I, you, you say things all the time that you hear in church that are just things that we've always heard in rooms.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, and this is the problem. Right. You can't have, you can't hand a drug addict or alcoholic a Bible and say, hey, if you read this cover to cover, it'll change your life. And all the answers to all your problems are in here. Because I'm going to look at that and I'm gonna go, yeah, right. But if you hand me a big book, Falco's Anonymous, and I can relate to the people in there and I can really start figuring it. It's all the same stuff.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

When you go through it. Right. You're talking about confession. Right. Which is your fifth step. Right.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You're talking about repentance.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Which is step nine. Right. Making amends.

[A]

Yeah, but you got to draw those parallels, man. The Bible, there's I, I 100% agree with you. But like the, the Bible is a harder book to read.

[B]

100%.

[A]

It's a harder book. That's what I mean. It's like, it's almost like.

[B]

Yeah, it's like that dude. So it's funny because I called my sponsor, when I, when I get done, I get through all the steps. That was one of the first things I did. As I called my sponsor Chris, I kind of feel like I've just been, you know, suckered here. Is this like a dumbed down version of the Bible? He goes, yeah, yeah, kind of. He goes. He goes, it's not necessarily a dumbed down version. He goes, but if anything, it's the back door to the Bible.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, and that was my experience. Right.

[A]

Like it's like Bible. It's like layman Bible.

[C]

Well, if you hand me a Bible, first thing I'm gonna say is it's too many pages for me.

[B]

Oh yeah.

[C]

I'm not reading thousands of pages.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Just not going to you. And I'm not going to understand half of it. Like my, I got my Daily Reflections Bible at work and it drops three paragraphs from the Bible and then it explains it to you in layman's terms.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And the, the, the Arthur's Arthur author.

[A]

It's not an Arthur.

[C]

I get confused. I get confused because I'm gonna be one. The author is Su Sarah Young and she's phenomenal at explaining it. But if I would read three paragraphs in the Bible, I would be lost Every single time.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Unless it was like, thou shall not kill. Pretty simple. But like, if it's something, especially the way that they spoke back then, not going to understand it. But a big book is pretty simple words. I can understand it and I can relate to the stories that I'm going to read in there too. Right.

[B]

So did your sponsor have you go through and do all the me?

[C]

Yeah, I've, I've heard no, but I've heard of somebody doing that.

[B]

Oh, bro, it was life changing. Life changing. You know, go through and just write anywhere I related to either in the past or present.

[C]

Yeah, right. Me.

[B]

Yeah, me, right. My big thing was this. Not an alcoholic meth head, bro. Like my problem is the meth, right? The problem is, is like I know now, right after being in this long enough that I can't put any substances in my body, especially alcohol. If I put alcohol, it'll all lead me back the same.

[C]

Yeah, right.

[B]

But all those me's right, was like. And the not, not relating to the alcohol thing was like, okay, well if, if you're not an alcoholic, then cross out alcohol and put meth or cocaine or whatever.

[A]

Whatever.

[B]

I think the 12 steps, right? And one of the biggest things about the 12 steps is like, like we need to carry the 12 steps into all areas as of our lives, right? So I love my boss, dude. My boss is great. And you know Dan at Rise is great too. Dan pulled me aside one day and he goes showing some real drug addict behavior. Like, I got high in five years. What are you talking about? You know what I mean? And so he goes, yeah, we need to have a meeting. I'm like, okay, cool. It pulls me into his office. He says, I need. Or he goes, I need you to print out your finances. I'm like thinking, what does this guy want to see my finances for? You know what I mean? Like, yeah, I don't gamble. I don't do. There's nothing on here that he's gonna like trip me up on. Yeah, you can see my finance. I'll print all this off for you. Send it to him. And he's like, he's like, yeah, you need to give it to him. And he's sitting across the sitting like me and you. He's got this red pin. He's just exiting, just staring at me. He goes, you know what you spent on eating out this month? No idea. You spent fifteen hundred dollars. It's a lot. He's like, yeah, yeah. He's like, you want to know what you spent on Amazon Purchases and like that. Like What? It's like $1300. Yes. You have a problem. It's like, you need to call your wife and I need to talk to you guys. Call my wife in trouble here. But no, he. He called us in. He's like, hey, you guys need to work steps around this. Like, you guys, you know, getting sober is not just getting sober. It's carrying this into all aspects of our lives. Your finances, your relationships, your everything. Right?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So we had to sit down and go through finances, work steps around finances. Right. Is pretty much worth. We're trying. We're trying to do that.

[C]

That is one of the hardest things for me. Yeah, it's one of the hardest because I don't think about $20 here, $40 there. My daughter just asking for whatever. I just spent $50 and they're on.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[C]

I don't think about those things until my money gets real low. Then I'm like, we need to stop eating out all the time. I start laying into Destiny, like, well, for you to start cooking more around here. And she's like, bro, you're literally the one that wants to go eat steak every night, right? You're literally. It's not me. I'm like, I'm good with ramen noodles.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

You're, like, wanting to go. Or I'll say, you know, we can't fucking go karaoke because we've already went three times. And she's like, okay, but we don't have to spend money when we go there. You're the one that spends all the money on this food and this food and this food. Like, we can literally just. We don't have to go to the bowling alley and fucking buy all of this shit in there, you know? But, yeah. But, yeah, that's. It never crosses my mind until my money starts getting low. Then I'm blaming it on everybody around me. Like, yeah, that's still. That's a. That's a really hard one, I think, for most any. I can't speak for everybody for myself, because I never was a money manager anyways, right? I never managed money. I was never taught to save.

[B]

Right.

[C]

I was taught to make it and spend it, make it, spend it, make it, spend it, replace it. Make it, spend it, replace it. And even though I got sober to your. To, like, what you were saying, our job is not just to get sober. I got sober and stopped gambling and I stopped using money on drugs and on strippers, but I started moving that money in other areas.

[B]

Oh, absolutely.

[C]

Like, well, now I can buy my daughter a lot of bro.

[B]

I gained 150 pounds. First year. Yeah, yeah, first year. Pick, you know, put down the spoon, pick up the fork type.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

It was like boom. You know what I mean? Because it was like eight out every day.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Wings and more was. It's easier so up, bro. I'm just non stop bro. You're just like, we need three of these and three of this. And you know, can't just have, you know, the deep fried green tomatoes. Got to have deep fried green tomatoes. You got to have a deep fried mushrooms and you got to have the deep fried green beans and them jalapenos because they're on point, you know.

[A]

Even.

[C]

If you go through the drive, drive thru these days, 30 or 40 bucks.

[B]

Every time, every, I mean, every time.

[C]

You go to McDonald's on their shitty value menu and it's, sorry, McDonald's. We are looking for a sponsor. We're glad. We'll, we'll, we'll rephrase that. But even if you go on the value menu, the shit's expensive. Like when I was in school, I remember I worked at Burger King and a, a meal was 325, 299 with tax. And that's not, that's unheard of. You'll never find that again.

[B]

We gotta download the apps now. That's the new thing, right? When you pull up to the dealer, they're like, hey, you gotta, you got an app order. You gotta download the apps. That's the new thing. You download the app.

[C]

I didn't even know that was the thing. I was in Chipotle the other day. Chipotle, and this guy was ordering like extra, extra bowls in front of me. I'm like, there's only two of them. He's getting four. Must. He said, no, it's Tuesday. You get on the app, you buy one bowl, get one bowl free or some. He was like, you want the app? And I was like, no, I'm good. I'm just getting one. But I was like, I didn't even know people did that.

[B]

It's a thing.

[C]

Yeah, it's an app.

[A]

There's an app for everything.

[C]

Really?

[A]

Now that's great.

[B]

That's a big app push, dude. So everybody's got one. You know what I mean? Like Dairy Queen. You can scan your thing and get a bunch of points. Why do I know this? Right? Because.

[C]

Well, yeah, because I eat my free dilly bar.

[B]

I want that free dilly bar. Yes.

[C]

We went to McDonald's yesterday and my Sister in law was like, can I use my McDonald points? I didn't even know there was McDonald points.

[A]

Dude, there's points everywhere.

[B]

It's on the app, bro.

[C]

10,000 points or something.

[A]

7 11. Dude, like, you go in there and I'm old. It's nice. I'm old too, man.

[C]

We don't have one of those two.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Well, Tyler, this was a great episode in a long time coming.

[C]

This was actually one of my favorite episodes. And I want to ask you one question.

[A]

Oh, yeah, go ahead.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Being a dad now compared to this is a big one for me because my daughter's the reason I got sober. And there's been times in my. She's the main reason. She's not. She's not every reason, but she was the main reason that got us started. And there's been times in my sobriety, especially early on, where that thought crossed my mind to use. Especially when things got hard. Even when they didn't get hard. Whenever I was. I remember I left doing a fort step with my first sponsor, and when I walked out of his house, I was like, man, I did real. I heard a voice in my head said, man, you did real good today. You should go get high and celebrate. I was like, holy, this comes out even on good days. But the dad that you were then compared to the dad that you are now. Will you speak on that? Because I think that's important. Because I know there's a lot of people out there that are still struggling that know that I thought when I was struggling, well, I still show up, right? But I'm not present. I'm still showing up. I don't miss a lot. I don't miss visits, But I'm showing up 30 minutes and 40 minutes late, and I always have an excuse. And then when she's with me, I'm sleeping most of the time, or I'm hopped off in a bathroom smoking meth and beating off and, you know, watching porn or whatever while she's out watching cartoons. So can you speak on that? Like, yeah.

[B]

So, I mean, with him, man, it was like, you know, I was just checked out. Like I said, like, the time that we did spend, it was like me bringing home all the presents and the gifts, right? All this stuff to the point where, I mean, that's all it was. You know, during those times of visitation when he would come down is when I started realizing that I had up royally, right? Because it's like, dad, get me this. Dad, get me this. Dad, get me this. And I'm like, right. Like, I feel like I have to do those things to make up for the lost. The lost time.

[C]

A thousand percent.

[B]

And so. So, yeah, so that was. That. That whole piece of it was hard. And I. I knew that, like, okay, like, this has got. Something's got to change. So he ended up. Thing with him, was he. Him and his mom ended up getting into it. He got into some trouble. We're from a town of 3,000. I had a rap sheet 10 miles long. I was on paper from the time I was 12 and for ever. You know what I mean? His mom, same way, right. Both got not the best reputations in that town. Him and her get into an altercation. Cops pick him up, take him to jail. So he spends the night in jail. And she calls me. So I don't know what we're gonna do here. And I said, well, send him down. It was more of yeah. So it was like. I was like, send him down. We're gonna, you know, try this out. And he came down, and then it was. I was like, what the Did I get myself into? Like, I am still learning to be a dad, dude.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

It's not like, 100%, dude. It's a lot. I'm not gonna lie. Right. Like, the sending the money and the child support.

[C]

So much easier. So much easier.

[B]

But being a present father is like, dude, it's a lot. It's a lot. There's a lot. Because I would not. There's no way I'd be able to do it without Amanda. There's absolutely no way. I can tell you that right now.

[C]

I Like when you said that. When you mentioned how good of a stepmom she is, because that was me. When me and Destiny got married, that was a big deal for me.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Is if my daughter don't with you, I can't with you.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And if you're. You can't just put on a front and you can't just show up when you want to. You got to show up all the time for her. Because I need you to be a role model for her, too. Right. Like when we moved her sister and I told her, sister, you need to be a big sister, she's going to look up to you, and that's a big deal for me. So. Yeah. That's. There's still some days, man, where, look, being a dad's hardest.

[B]

Hardest.

[C]

It's hard as. And there's still some days where she makes me question me being a dad.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Like, there's some days where we're spat and spat and spat. And I just will sit there and say I don't even know what the I'm doing.

[B]

Well, so, so I will. I will say this, right? He comes out here, Amanda starts getting involved in activities. Right. And yes, in the beginning, it was. It was rough.

[C]

Rough.

[B]

Oh, my God, it was rough, dude. Like, me and him would just non stop, right. I don't know how to be a dad.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Right. So, you know, and then he's got this mouth on him, you know what I mean? Just to say whatever he wants, you know, it's like, it's just like we're just button heads.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

But Amanda had. She was so good about, like, when that would start. She's like, nope, you. You go to your room. You go to your room. And I'm like, fine. Right. You know what I mean? And so it's like, right. So then it's, you know, and she'll. She goes and has a conversation with it.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, dude, I couldn't tell you how many times we've ran him through a set of steps on stuff that he's dealing with in his personal life. Right. Not that he's an addict, not that he has a problem with anything, but like, those are good skills to have. Right? Let's. Let's look at your part.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

What's your part in this situation? Would you want to be treated like that? You know, like. And do that Got him enrolled in njrtc. Kid is killing it at life. Killing it, like D's and F's, you know, Horrible. You know, just couldn't get it together out there.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Right. Comes out here and that's just really what he needed. He needed a father figure in his life. Right. Well, I'm also working all the time, Right. So I wasn't able to be that father figure. I had to, trust me. I had to do some work around this too, because it was like we got him enrolled in njrotc, then all of a sudden, like, he's listening and he's doing all this stuff because he has these male role models, right? And it's not just those guys. He's got these male role models in his life that are good influences that support him and lift him up. It's also guys in my own personal recovery. Right. Starting out Cast Ministries was one of the best things I ever did that built us a connection. A group of guys, a group of individuals that we all get together and we'll go trips to Galveston and we'll, you know, rent an Airbnb and we'll hang out and we'll spend time together. We'll bring the kids and the families and the wives and the girlfriends and, and you know, community is the one thing that I definitely needed in my life. But all those guys, like, they talked to Riley and he's part of the group, right? They, they all, they're in recovery, so we all live by principles and they're lifting him up, you know what I mean?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Then he gets in the njrtc, I mean, and just kills it. My sixth year, the day of my six year sobriety day was like a wake up call for me because he had just completed basic leadership training right through them. And so like, I'm showing up to watch him compete in this deal and I'm like, this is why you got sober. But yeah, dude, like, it, it is, it's hard. Being a dad is hard and it's not easy. And especially when you've spent that much time in addiction and, you know, it's, it's learning. But the best thing you can do is to put people in your corner. Those men that, that run the NJROTC and, and the guys that are in, in my core group of men that I work with, I am so grateful to have those people in my life because they, they are good leaders and they are good role models.

[C]

Right.

[B]

And just because my ego tells me that my son needs to learn from his dad. That's not true. Yeah, right. Even a little bit. And me. And that's the thing, you know what I mean? Like, there's, there's been a lot of things that have happened.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, and he's like. I said, I'm so proud of him that, you know, I can't even, can't even. He chokes me up all the time and it pisses me off because then I'm like, dude, like, seriously, like, we'll be at this NJRTC stuff. And I'm like, like, hold it together. Hold it it together. Don't cry, don't cry. Like, stop. You know what I mean? Just because this is like, damn, dude. And then he walks up, he's like, hey, dad, I'm like, hey, you know, pull it together for second year. Like, yeah, dude, I'm just.

[C]

That's awesome. I'm glad you mentioned that too because like, Kayn's mom's great mom and she's engaged. And when I went to rehab, they, I, I met the guy. I liked him, but I didn't know him that well when I got out of rehab, I took Kaylin swimming. And she knew how to swim. I was like, how'd you learn how to swim? Because last time I went swimming with her, she couldn't swim for.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And she's like, Mr. Scott showed me how. And bro, that with me.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[C]

That with me so hard. Like, I. I was like, right. How dare another man teach my daughter something. And I went to work about it, and I talked to this old timer at work, Tommy.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And Tommy said. He said something that changed my way of thinking with it. I was telling him, and I was like, man, I'm. I don't even. I want to call him. And. And he said, you embrace that. He said, you could never have too many people love your kids. He said, remember that? He said, you can. So ever since he told me that we need help, I was like, dude, that's amazing. Like, that's amazing. And he treats my daughter great. And I get along with the dude. He's a great guy. And, like, there's no, you know, so, yeah, that's what. That's what I learned from that. But that was hard for me, like, man. And you know, one thing that I used to think about whenever I was getting high is whenever I started wanting to get sober, I kept thinking about, if I don't make this change, someone else is going to have to raise my daughter. Someone else is going to walk her down the aisle. Someone else is going to have to do her quinceanetta with her, because I'm not going to be here, right. I'll be in prison or I'll be dead. One hundred, a thousand, it's. Those are the options for me, are I can get sober and show it for all of them.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

You know, well, that was.

[B]

That was the other piece of it, too, right? So, like this going through the steps and getting, you know, to my immense portion of it. Who. Who do you think? If you had to guess who was my number one offender on my resentment?

[C]

I would probably say his mom.

[B]

That was number. She was up there. But she would know was my dad and my mom, Right. My first two on my resentment list. So. Funny thing with resentment list. Yo, those people on amends, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So when my sponsor pulls up and he goes, hey, you know, you owe this dude an amends. I go, I don't owe that guy anything. Are you talking about. He left before I was born, he did all this stuff to me and blah, blah, blah. He goes, yeah, but you see how much hatred you've carried in your heart for the past 30, 33 years.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He goes, that's just like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die. Yeah. He goes. He goes, this ain't hurting anybody but you. And I was like, gosh, damn it, dude. I don't want to know what I mean? But I did. I was willing to go to any lengths.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Right. Because I was going to die. I was going to die. I was going to either kill myself. I was too chicken to kill myself, but you know what I mean? Like, it was either, like something was going to happen, right. I was going to figure out a way and. Or I was going to do that. And so it was like, yeah, I tracked this guy down that I'd never talked to and reached out to his sister and his mom and his. All the family. Finally, I get this, hey, yeah, I'm your dad. You know, I told him, I said, hey, well, I need. I owe you an amends. It's life or death errand for me, and I need to talk to you. And I'll happen to be in Boise on this time, because Riley's going back up there for school, so show up, meet him in a hotel and found out his side of the story, Right? That was the thing, you know what I mean? We shake hands and like, hey, you know, I tell him, I said, hey, man, I. I owe you an amends, you know, Right. If we sit down and have this amends and, you know, this is a life or death errand for me, or I'm gonna get high if I don't do this. Says, yeah. So we go around corner and we talk, and we go to a little coffee shop and sit down and I found out all of his story, you know what I mean? His parents were in the military. He got her knocked up. And then, you know, they're moving and they're doing all this other stuff, and it's like, you know, he just never reached out afterwards, right?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And so it was like, I mean, but he was scared also, you know what I mean? He's like, dude, I haven't been there in 18 years. You know? Now how weird would that be if I reached out, right? It's all this. This thinking. Right. And we have a great relationship now. Right. So it was like. But it was like, you know, I'd been judging this guy for all this stuff and not knowing his side.

[A]

Yeah. Didn't listen. Yeah.

[B]

And then once I find out his side of it, right? Which I'm telling you, that amends, I was the most petrified I'd Ever been. This is going to somebody I've never met in my life and basically telling.

[C]

You someone you felt like probably, I don't know, that I don't owe him anything.

[B]

Right. But. But I'm going to this guy and I'm telling him, hey, I owe you an amends, and this is why I owe you an amendment. I mean, amends for the way I talked about you, the way I talked bad about you, the way I, you know, thought about you, the way I did this. You deserve better. And I can do better. Right. Because I don't. I'm not. I'm not trying to live like that anymore. What can I do to make it right?

[A]

Right.

[B]

And then, you know, and it was like, from that moment, it was just like, you know, he. He wanted to keep, you know, tell me. I'm sorry. And, you know, all this stuff, and I'm like, hey, dude, like, we're gonna cry. We're gonna squash all this.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Squash all this right now. Like, either a. You can be in a relationship with me and, you know, you got a grandkid I would love for you guys to meet, and, you know, I would love to be you guys, build that relationship and whatever.

[C]

I got an amazing wife.

[B]

Yeah. Great wife. Yeah, absolutely. Right. Like, all this going on, and then, you know, we can either do this or just let me know now that you don't want to do this, you know, and then we can be done. And then my part's done. You know what I mean? Like, it's all good.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And, you know, he's like, yeah. You know, found out I had a younger brother and two younger sisters out of that whole deal.

[C]

Wow.

[B]

So on the backside of that. That fear, right. I'm petrified in fear to do this thing, but I go do this thing, and on the backside of that, I find out that I have siblings. Siblings. And then we can start building these relationships. You know what I mean? And so we all, you know, we have relationships now. My dad flew out here, he came to our wedding, and, you know, we fly up there and spend time with him, you know?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Try to every year. We didn't get through this last year, but hopefully we're gonna go up there this year, so.

[A]

Well, you will, brother. You gotta. You got a great story, man. And I. I want you to come back on more because I know there's a lot more stories in there, like, where we can kind of goof off.

[B]

I could talk to you guys for days.

[A]

And I. So here's the thing is, like, you know, we've had a couple of repeat guests on. And I always enjoy the second time around because it's less story and it's.

[C]

More just chopping it up.

[A]

Chopping it up and, like, life. Right? Like.

[B]

And.

[A]

And I can tell that you're somebody that I. I could tell this immediately when I met you, that you were somebody that I would. That I would with and that I would hang out with, like, you know, so thanks for finally getting on this thing. Dude. This is. This was awesome. This is awesome. I. And I'm. I can't help but have this little bit of a feeling there's another half that we should probably have in this chair, too.

[B]

You should definitely.

[C]

I was thinking the same thing.

[B]

I hear that story because I would.

[A]

Love for that to take place a lot sooner than the year and a half that it took to get this guy sitting in here. And. And yeah, just. Look, bro, I. I say it to everybody, and I mean this with all sincerity, man. You need us for anything, you let us know. We'll show up, we'll do it, and the door is always open for you to come sit there.

[B]

I do want to throw out Serenity under the Stars camping trip.

[A]

Yeah, dude. Yeah, dude. Yeah.

[B]

Serenity Understars camping trip is the 6th.

[A]

16Th, 17th, 18th, 17th, 18th-19th. See, I pay attention. Better than you said.

[B]

Lazy. Lazy. Lnl out, New Braunfels. It's the original home of Sober Games, where Sober Games originally started. So if you guys following social media, Sober Games is, you know, they do all kinds of events. Volleyball out there, we compete for the championship belt, WWE style championship belt, plus bragging rights, right? So get your teams on there, get your teams, you know, registered to go out there, get your spots picked out. But we'll go out there, we'll do the playoffs, which is going to consist of volleyball, tug of war, musical chairs. They have a dance competition.

[C]

I seen y' all got karaoke in.

[B]

There too, last time, so I don't know if they're doing karaoke this year.

[C]

It was on there.

[B]

Was it on there? They have. They did a comedian. All right, That's a guy in sobriety doing. Oh, it's great. Yeah, it's great. There's. There's gonna be all kinds of stuff to do. They'll have food covered. There's a bunch of donations of drinks and energy drinks and stuff like that. Dan brings out his pizza makers.

[A]

He's got these stone pizza.

[B]

Stone pizza deals and he makes. He's just like rolling pizzas out and doing that. Stuff. And, yeah, definitely come out and check it out. If you can't afford to cover the cost, get in touch with somebody on there. On the platform, there's a. You'll see there's a QR code. You can sign up or whatever, or you can reach out to me directly, find me on all platforms, every single platform. It's either Tyler Walker, realtor. Just Tyler Walker on every platform.

[A]

So I'm gonna plug this one for you, too. You need a house, you need to sell a house, you need to rent a house, you need commercial, ranch, farm, whatever, anything that. This is the guy. Tyler Walker, ladies and gentlemen.

[B]

And even if you got some. Like me and you were talking earlier, right. If you got some bad stuff on your deal, you know, we can tend to work around that is gonna obviously cost you some money.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But, you know, I've had to make it happen. I've helped people in. In all kinds of different situations, whether it's felonies or whatever, as long as arson's. Arson's a hard one.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Very, very hard. That's like a game killer. You say his arson is like. Yeah, yeah, bro. You know, I'd love to help you, but, you know. Yeah, might not be a thing, so.

[A]

Well, brother, thank you so much. Thank you for coming on. We're going to have you sign the wall here in a second. We got to snap some pictures, and then we will get you off to your 874 jobs that you've got.

[B]

Perfect.

[A]

All right.

[C]

We also lost one of our biggest supporters. I didn't want to.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Talk about this before.

[A]

Yeah. So I. I think we're going to shout it out, but our last episode, at the end of it, we had a buddy, Alan Luckett, in recovery, and. And when he found out that we were doing this, he was through the moon about it and was one of our biggest supporters. And.

[C]

He passed away, but we thought.

[A]

He was gonna be okay.

[C]

Yeah, he had.

[A]

When I.

[B]

When they shouted it out.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And. And he passed away, like, two days later and.

[C]

But he passed away sober.

[A]

Yeah, he beat it.

[C]

He made it to the finish line.

[A]

He beat. He just.

[C]

You know, in this game, we. We lose a lot of people, and he's the first person that I've lost in recovery that made it to the finish line, that made it sober. We always lose people when they relapse, but he actually made it all the way, and he was so proud of what we were doing. And I went to. We both went to his home group to. To represent him and I think I know. I found out that he talked more about us than I ever would have thought. That he talked about us.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

But. But, yeah, he's such a good guy. My daughter loved him. And, yeah, we're gonna miss him. So we're probably gonna do an episode just to shoot the. About him.

[A]

Yeah. Tell some stories.

[C]

Tell some stories about Alan. But, Alan, we love you. We miss you. To your family, Riley, your entire family. We love you. We miss you. We're here for you if you need anything. The kids, the grandkids, your wife. But. Yeah.

[A]

So, yeah, rest in peace.

[C]

Rest in peace. Alan, we're gonna. I think we should probably have maybe his granddaughter come and put him on the wall.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Either that or I was. I was honestly thinking about maybe adding them there. Get the graffiti guy to come back out.

[B]

I think.

[A]

I think that'd be awesome.

[C]

Let's see what Riley would ask Riley about that one. See which one he prefer.

[B]

Maybe both.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, maybe both.

[C]

So.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah. Rest in peace, Alan. We'll miss you. We love you.

[A]

Love you.

[C]

Hate to end it on that note.

[A]

I know, dude.

[C]

All right, let's talk about midgets.

[B]

All right, we're out.

[C]

Peace.