Mel Robbins Calls Out Bert’s People-Pleasing | 2 Bears, 1 Cave

Summary

2 Bears, 1 Cave — Mel Robbins Calls Out Bert’s People-Pleasing

Release Date: November 10, 2025
Hosts: Bert Kreischer & Tom Segura (off camera), Guest: Mel Robbins
Studio: YMH Studios

Episode Overview

In this rich, fast-paced, and refreshingly candid episode, comedian Bert Kreischer sits down with motivational powerhouse Mel Robbins (Tom Segura is absent, working on his “Bad Ideas” show) for a conversation that quickly transcends small talk and pivots deep into topics of self-worth, people-pleasing, regret, boundaries, anxiety, ADHD, personal growth, and how Mel’s now-famous “Let Them” theory can help anyone reclaim their time and energy. With the disarming honesty and humor fans expect from 2 Bears, 1 Cave, and the open-hearted wisdom Mel Robbins is known for, this episode is both entertaining and packed with practical insight.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Bonding Over Past Dysfunction and Honesty

• Opening connection: Bert and Mel bond over drinks (and their complicated history with alcohol), establishing instant chemistry and willingness to “go there” (00:08–03:14).
• True confessions: Both reflect on messy college relationships, cheating, and shame. Mel admits to being “in peak dysfunction,” morphing her identity to please partners, using self-sabotage to avoid uncomfortable conversations (03:14–05:36).
  • Mel Robbins Quote: “Have you ever had the thought that you are too afraid to break up with somebody...so instead in your fucked up brain you go, I think I’m just gonna fool around with somebody else…and then they’ll break up with me so I don’t have to, like, break up with them?” (04:36)

2. Anxiety, ADHD, and Self-Awareness Later in Life

• Mel and Bert both discuss not knowing they had anxiety or ADHD until adulthood, and the lifelong patterns that stemmed from this (06:00–10:50, 61:07–69:17).
  • Mel: “I did not put together the puzzle…that was Mel Robbins until I was probably 47.” (06:00)
  • ADHD and anxiety led to avoidance, risky behaviors, and twice-as-hard inner battles.
• Humorous confessions of self-sabotage, and that need for others’ validation rooted in childhood and nervous system patterns.

3. The Burden of People-Pleasing & Transactional Relationships

• Bert and Mel dissect why they (and most people) fall into people-pleasing, transactional mentality in friendships, family, and work (38:52–44:25).
• Pressure to be liked and helpful, and the exhaustion that comes from it.
  • Mel Robbins: “I have bent over backwards...trying to make people happy...It’s so stressful to pretend to be somebody you’re not.” (06:37–08:29, 38:52–44:25)

4. The “Let Them” Theory: Simple Boundaries, Huge Impact

• Let Them Theory Demystified (24:45–24:55):
  • When stressed, annoyed, or upset by others’ behavior: “Let them.” You can’t control anyone else’s actions. (25:16–27:37)
  • Mel frames it as a modern, accessible distillation of Stoicism, the Serenity Prayer, and core ideas from therapy.
  • Letting go of pointless attempts to control outcomes or feelings frees up your energy and time for what you can control.
    • Mel Robbins: “Any time you’re stressed out, annoyed, hurt, frustrated...just say, Let them.” (24:45)
    • “The more you try to control something that’s out of your control, the less control you have.” (31:00)
  • Apply “Let me” as the companion: “Let me remind myself I always get to choose.” (32:00–33:07)
• Disarming fear of disappointing others, recognizing that disappointment is proof someone values you, not a catastrophe (43:05–47:34):
  • “Let them be disappointed. Disappointment means they want you around. The opposite is, ‘Thank God that asshole can’t come.’” (47:34)

5. Real-World Scenarios of Boundaries & Control

• Stories of family conflict (kids’ bedtimes vs. parents’ plans), friendship expectations, and even awkward celebrity encounters (e.g., Bert’s failed New Year’s Eve attempt to kiss Nicole Kidman) illustrate the daily relevance of these principles (51:16–56:07).
  • Mel Robbins: “Let her have her opinion about you. She probably doesn’t have a bad opinion. You’re the one now torturing yourself.” (55:54)
• Importance of accepting people as they are—your brother, your dad, your spouse—because only you can change your actions, not anyone else’s (48:56–50:27).

6. Unpacking Guilt, Obligations, Regret, and Providing

• Both hosts acknowledge the feeling of never doing enough for family, being torn between providing and being present, and the futile guilt trips we give ourselves (40:06–41:22).
  • Bert: “If I don’t work right now, then no one gets to go to college...But if I keep working, then I get to maybe take the family on a vacation.” (40:31)
• Mel shares that these feelings are universal to both women and men, even if manifested differently.

7. The Power of Radical Responsibility and Response

• Defining Responsibility (61:00):
  • “Responsibility is just the ability to respond.” (61:00)
  • Letting go of grudges, negative energy, and transactional score-keeping in families and friendships (53:31–54:52).

8. Mel Robbins’ Origin Story: From Rock Bottom & the Five Second Rule

• Mel opens up about hitting rock bottom: $800,000 in debt, career setbacks, family stress, and using alcohol to cope (82:13–84:33).
• The moment that changed her life: counting down 5-4-3-2-1 to get out of bed—leading to her “5 Second Rule,” viral TEDx talk, bestselling book, and practical foundation for all habits and change (86:55–93:08).
  • Mel Robbins: “You will never feel ready to change your life. But at any moment, you can decide that where you’re at no longer works.” (89:02–90:54)
  • “You either win in that five second moment, or you’re fucked.” (88:59–89:02)
• The slow, unglamorous, persistent road from desperation to international success.

9. From Survival to Service: Paying it Forward

• Mel describes how helping others, answering emails, and later speaking engagements (including her first paid talk at $10k) became her new calling—emphasizing loyalty and remembering the people who helped you on the way up (103:35–106:46).
• Her focus is on freely sharing what works—her podcast is intentionally accessible, non-numbered, and meant for time-starved people around the world (110:44–111:52).

10. Rebuilding Family Relationships with “Let Them”

• Mel and her oldest daughter co-wrote Let Them, using the method to get past years of mutual frustration and develop real closeness (115:10–117:00).

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Memorable Quotes

On People-Pleasing & Self Deception:

• “I just was like, I’ll just make them not like me. That was the easiest way. It’s so much easier for you to just hate me than me to tell you I don’t like you.” —Bert (09:25)
• “Have you ever had the thought...that even though they’re a great person, they’re not your person...I’m just gonna fool around with somebody else. And then they’ll break up with me so I don’t have to?” —Mel (04:36)

On Boundaries & Control:

• “The more you try to control something that’s out of your control, the less control you have.” —Mel (31:00)
• “Let them be disappointed...Disappointment means they want you around. It doesn’t mean you have to do anything.” —Mel (47:37)
• “Let her have her opinion about you. She probably doesn’t have a bad opinion about you. You’re the one now that is torturing yourself.” —Mel (55:54)

On Growth, Change, and Responsibility:

• “You will never feel ready to change your life. But at any moment, you can decide that where you’re at no longer works.” —Mel (89:02)
• “Responsibility is just the ability to respond.” —Mel (61:00)

On Authenticity:

• “People only change when they’re ready to change for themselves.” —Mel (50:02)
• “When you really embrace how simple this is, ‘Let Them’ is a boundary you put up between you and other people.” —Mel (36:52)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:08–05:36: Bonding over drinking, early relationship dysfunction, college regrets
• 06:00–08:29: Anxiety, ADHD, and the “aha” of finally understanding yourself
• 24:45–27:37: “Let Them” explained in detail
• 38:52–44:25: People-pleasing, guilt, and the illusion that it’s unique to women
• 47:34–50:27: Disappointment, boundaries, and “letting people be disappointed”
• 61:00–69:17: Defining real responsibility, undiagnosed ADHD/dyslexia, generational impact
• 82:13–93:08: Mel’s rock bottom: financial ruin, drinking, and discovering the 5 Second Rule
• 103:35–111:52: Building a life of service, the importance of loyalty, why Mel’s podcast is free

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Standout Moments

• Both Bert and Mel “outing” their college/early adult dysfunctions (05:36): Unified by the ways they avoided honesty and personal responsibility, revealing it’s more common than listeners may think.
• Mel explaining “Let Them” with relatable family/traffic/friend group scenarios (27:37–33:07): Her practical wisdom for bypassing resentment by using self-awareness.
• The “letting go” of disappointing others (43:05–47:34): Bert’s palpable fear of disappointing people, and Mel’s reframing of it as validation of human connection.
• Intimate admissions about ADHD and parenting (61:38–69:17): Showing listeners they’re not alone and that “not having it together” can simply be brain wiring.
• Mel’s “rocket ship” awakening and explanation of why five seconds matter (86:55–90:54): Immediate, self-applied, and life-altering.
• Behind the scenes of Mel’s speaker journey (101:20–106:46): How serendipity and asking about budgets changed her family’s financial future.

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Tone & Style

• Honest, raw, irreverent, and vulnerable but always hopeful.
• The banter retains Bert’s signature humor; Mel keeps pace with warmth and blunt clarity.
• Cursing is natural and frequent, as are “overshare” confessions that build listener trust.

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For Listeners Who Haven’t Heard the Episode

This conversation is for anyone who’s ever struggled with saying no, feeling guilty about boundaries, feared disappointing loved ones, or wished they could stop replaying anxieties and regrets. Mel Robbins breaks down easy-to-remember tactics and “aha” reframings anyone can use—like “Let them, let me”—to start living more authentically and less reactively. Her candid storytelling and Bert’s energetic self-disclosure keep it relatable and never preachy.

Whether you want to feel less alone in your mess, are curious how to finally take charge of your emotional life, or are simply looking for laughter with wisdom, this is an episode worth your time.

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[End of Summary]

Transcript

[Tom Segura]

Las Vegas on Friday, November 21st at Dolby Live. Get your tickets now at tomsagura.com tour 100%.

[Bert Kreischer]

Cheers. There is only one reason I flew to Austin to do my podcast and it is not with my co host, Tom Segura. He is off making his bad ideas show. It is Mel Robbins. Mel Robbins. Tom told me you were coming. He's busy in the writer's room. And I hopped on a plane and did not drink today so I could have a lucid conversation. I love drinking on planes.

[Mel Robbins]

Why do you like drinking on planes?

[Bert Kreischer]

I like drinking. I knew you kind of used to like drinking.

[Mel Robbins]

No, I like to drink.

[Bert Kreischer]

Oh, really?

[Mel Robbins]

Yes, absolutely.

[Bert Kreischer]

What's your drink?

[Mel Robbins]

It depends on the day. It depends on the time of day. It depends on whether or not I got an empty stomach. Like so, for example.

[Bert Kreischer]

I love this conversation.

[Mel Robbins]

So in the. Well, I used to. I grew up working in restaurants and I was. I did everything. I did the front of the house, the back of the house, the fryer, the busing, the bar back, the bartender. I loved being a bartender. There's so much power in being a bartender. Right. Have you ever been a bartender?

[Bert Kreischer]

Tom and I take over bars. We have a vodka and so we'll take over bars and I can make one drink and that's a vodka soda.

[Mel Robbins]

Oh. Being a bartender is one of the greatest jobs in the entire world.

[Bert Kreischer]

Really?

[Mel Robbins]

Well, of course. Well, because think about it like you are holding court. Everybody, like, needs you and needs your attention. It's very creative. You, you're on your feet, you get to talk to people, you make a lot of money. Like, it's fantastic job.

[Bert Kreischer]

I would argue comic is just the same, but without making the drink.

[Mel Robbins]

Yeah.

[Bert Kreischer]

And better money.

[Mel Robbins]

Yeah. There you go. Well, so no. So it depends. So I think I'm kind of, like, picky about it because I. I like.

[Bert Kreischer]

That you have a diverse group of drinks. So I'll give you the time of day.

[Mel Robbins]

Okay.

[Bert Kreischer]

You tell me the drinks.

[Mel Robbins]

I love this game.

[Bert Kreischer]

Okay.

[Mel Robbins]

Oh, we should do a card game out of this. Okay, go ahead. I also love cards.

[Bert Kreischer]

You and my wife.

[Mel Robbins]

Okay.

[Bert Kreischer]

All right. We just got to Hawaii. Our room isn't ready, and we're down by the pool and we have to wait for our room to be ready. And the lady comes by and goes, can I get you guys a couple drinks?

[Mel Robbins]

Okay.

[Bert Kreischer]

It's our first day of five in Hawaii.

[Mel Robbins]

If it's hot as hell, I'm going to order a. I'm probably going to order a frozen pina colada. With a dark rum float. But not from the Slurpee machine. I want it in a blender. I want like the premium cocktail. Cause we're ripping the band aid off.

[Bert Kreischer]

Floater's so important, right?

[Mel Robbins]

We're ripping the band aid off on this vacation so no junky ass shit coming out of the Slurpee machine.

[Bert Kreischer]

This drink represents more than just having a drink. This represents the beginning of a journey. A five day journey in a beautiful place in Hawaii.

[Mel Robbins]

That is correct. However, if it's like one of those days in Hawaii that I've seen on TV where it's like super windy and blowing, so we're not sitting quite by the pool yet, I think I would want more like a painkiller type vibe.

[Bert Kreischer]

Okay.

[Mel Robbins]

You know, painkiller, the drink of the Bahamas and the fresh nutmeg on top. That feels a little bit more like a proper cocktail. That wouldn't give me like that headache freeze thing that happens when you drink something that's frozen.

[Bert Kreischer]

Okay. Your best friend from college calls you.

[Mel Robbins]

Yes.

[Bert Kreischer]

Her dad just died. I need you to come over and sit with me. She get into the house and she says, would you make us two drinks?

[Mel Robbins]

Yes.

[Bert Kreischer]

What drinks do you make?

[Mel Robbins]

Well, if she's my best friend, I know her father's favorite drink. And so I would make her father's favorite drink. And then I would raise a toast and then I would ask her to tell me her. I would tell her my favorite memory of her dad.

[Bert Kreischer]

How many guys do you think dated you in college and now look at you and go, fuck, I fucked up.

[Mel Robbins]

No, they didn't. I fucked up. I was a. To every guy that I dated, I just want you to know I am so sorry. Like I was in peak dysfunction. Like, especially if I cheated on you. Cause I was one of those like psycho chicks that clung to you like a blankie and changed my identity to match yours. And then about a year into it, you no longer worked as the cure to my anxiety and insecurity. And then I started to slowly get anxious again and I would get the ick. And you want to know how fucked up I was. And so many people can relate to this. So I'm just going to put it right out there. Have you ever had the thought that you are too afraid to break up with somebody or to tell them the truth? That even though they're a great person, they're not your person. And so instead in your fucked up brain you go, I think I'm just gonna fool around with somebody else. And then they'll break up with me so I don't have to, like, break up with them. You are the same people. You two people are the same exact person. I'm having an outer body experience in the booth. You're the same person. Leanne, I think we need a chaperone. Leigh Ann, call my husband. I've been married 29 years, so I literally. I have not been to a college reunion because I am so mortified of the person that I was during college. And what were you laughing about?

[Bert Kreischer]

I did that to every girl I dated. Every single one of them.

[Mel Robbins]

Do you know that this is like a doctor shout out? Dr. Daniel Amen. He basically told me when he looked at all these patterns around anxiety and, like, really risky, awful behavior, he's like, oh, this is really something that is typical of a certain type of ADHD brain.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mel Robbins]

There's something. I can't explain it. Somebody else smarter than me can explain it, but there's something around the dopamine flooding and the ups and downs and, you know, for me personally, I did not understand the shit I was dealing with in my nervous system and in my mind until I did not put together the puzzle or the casserole dish that was Mel Robbins until I was probably 47 years old to be able to look back and go, oh, now this makes sense. Because here's the thing. I gotta ask you a question. So when you were acting like an asshole.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yes.

[Mel Robbins]

Did you have those moments where you would say to yourself, I shouldn't be doing this. Why can't I stop myself from doing this? Why am I such a bad person? Why am I so afraid to just have a conversation with somebody about how I honestly feel? Why do I just twist myself in knots and pretend I'm somebody I'm not? And then I run in a different direction. And I think that somehow people aren't going to know that I'm too. Like, I'm living a double life, that I'm this way with this group. I'm this way with this. I don't even know who I am anymore, because whoever I'm in front of is. That's. I just pretend I agree with everything they're saying, and then I go to somebody else, and then I pretend I don't agree. And so, you know, people say to me, oh, my God, you're so vulnerable. You're so authentic. I'm like, do you know how long I was a liar? Do you know how hard that is? I don't think I'm vulnerable at all. I Just finally woke the hell up and realized it's so much easier to be honest. It's so stressful to pretend to be somebody you're not. And it's so stressful to hide the things that are hard because then you're the one living with this shit. See, I can't swear on my podcast because I want people to be able to listen with their kids. And as a woman, the only criticism you get is about, like, in my case, the turkey neck and the, like, you know, jowls right here and the irritating voice. But I also get tons of criticism if I ever swear.

[Bert Kreischer]

Oh, yeah, that's not.

[Mel Robbins]

But, you know, I come from a long line of farmers and, like, you know, bakers and machinists, and so I, like, literally talk like a trucker in my normal life. Was this not what you expected?

[Bert Kreischer]

No, I didn't. I thought I was the only really fucked up. I'm very fucked up. I still am. I haven't had my aha moment. I acknowledge it, and I think everyone acknowledges it. That's the kind of interesting thing about me, is that maybe I'm the last one to pick it up, but everyone else knows it. Like, you brought back the weirdest memory.

[Mel Robbins]

Okay, tell me. I want details. What year? Unless it's gonna expose somebody who doesn't need to be exposed, but just kind of give me details.

[Bert Kreischer]

1997. I'm guessing 96. 97. And I was in a fight. I have wild, crazy. I cheated on everyone I ever dated and except for my now.

[Mel Robbins]

Is that how you got out of it?

[Bert Kreischer]

That's how I got out of it. That's how I got out of it.

[Mel Robbins]

Yes.

[Bert Kreischer]

I just was like, I'll just make them not like me.

[Mel Robbins]

Yes.

[Bert Kreischer]

That was the easiest way.

[Mel Robbins]

Yes.

[Bert Kreischer]

It's so much easier for you to just hate me than me to tell you I don't like you.

[Mel Robbins]

Yes. And did you then stay with the person you cheated with so it was like the off ramp into the next monogamous cheating situation?

[Bert Kreischer]

Oh, I would. Yeah. And then I'd stay with the person and then sometimes go back to the other person. And then I was so bad.

[Mel Robbins]

Oh, my God, why am I laughing like I was.

[Bert Kreischer]

I have this moment that I think of every now and then. It haunts me where I go, that is. That's the real Bert. Where cheated, caught, wanted her back in a bathroom, and I'm crying so that she hears it. In the middle of crying, I stopped crying entirely. And I look in the mirror and I go, I wonder if Anyone hears this. And I went, what the fuck's happening? I was like, wait, are you sad? I was like, I don't think I am. I was like, just cry louder. And then I was like, what the fuck am I doing?

[Mel Robbins]

Well, I'll tell you what you were doing. Because if she takes you back and forgives you, you can forgive yourself.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah. Yeah. My dad cheated on my mom and the day and he told me and the day after, I cheated on my girlfriend. And I was like, why would I Like, what the fuck?

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[Mel Robbins]

What do you get to what, to like you? Me?

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah. Like right now, everyone's like, who the fuck is Burt talking to? He hasn't even introduced her. Mel Robbins, if you do not know, and if you're a just a Two Bears fan, you' this fucking woman rocks. You have no idea. She wrote. You have two books. You have one book that is mind blowing is Let them. Let them. The reason I know you is because your youngest and my youngest are the same age.

[Mel Robbins]

Okay.

[Bert Kreischer]

We both dropped off at college on the same day.

[Mel Robbins]

No kidding.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah. I followed you. I didn't know who you were. You got into my algorithm and you were talking about the process of dropping off and I was extremely emotional and I said, who the fuck is this lady? And Leanne goes, you don't know who Mel Robbins is? And I went, no, should I? And she goes, absolutely. And I. I think I dmed you that day.

[Mel Robbins]

Really?

[Bert Kreischer]

I want to say I did, but I was like. We both had the same feelings of helplessness, of like, did I really sign up for this? To raise them so that then they don't need me?

[Mel Robbins]

Yes.

[Bert Kreischer]

And I. And then from that moment on, Red let them and was like, oh, shit. I never did the other part. You are one of the biggest podcasts around. You are one of the biggest public speakers around. You've hit 180 countries talking publicly. Your books are best national best sellers. And not the kind that, like comics get. Real good ones where everyone buys them. Not just our fans of our pod. Everyone buys them. You've your friends, your peers are the biggest minds in this business, including Oprah. And you are incredible. And you've blown my mind in the first 12 minutes of this podcast. But I want to get to how you got there, how you got to here, because I feel like I really quickly identified with who we both were in our 20s, 30s, and now. But you're still.

[Mel Robbins]

I was shitting in my. I was shitting in my teens, too. Like, I'll loan that.

[Bert Kreischer]

I didn't know I had anxiety.

[Mel Robbins]

Yes.

[Bert Kreischer]

I remember telling my dad I had anxiety. And he'd just go, go back to bed. And I was like, I can't. The television's yelling at me and my toenails feel like they're creeping in. I'm like, I'm losing my fucking mind. And so. But you've dealt with all of that shit.

[Mel Robbins]

Yeah.

[Bert Kreischer]

So what was. And I know a little bit of your aha moment of $800,000 in debt, drinking too much, depressed. But get me to the journey. Cause there's people going, this is. I want to figure things out.

[Mel Robbins]

Of course. See, I personally believe that every human being wants to do well. Like, even when I was screwing things up and I was treating people terribly and treating myself terribly, I wanted to do well. I didn't know how. And that sounds like the dumbest thing in the world, but how many times have you, like, nobody wakes up in the morning and says, you know what I'm gonna do today? I'm gonna fuck up my life. That's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna drink that entire bottle of vodka and then I'm gonna get in the car behind the wheel or I'm gonna walk into work and blow things off. So I get. Nobody intentionally screws up their life. And for me, I think that there were just so many things going on under the surface that I didn't understand. The ways in which my brain or my nervous system or things that happened in my childhood that were not particularly that, like, crazy how they impacted who I became as an adult. And then I started to feel trapped in behaviors and thinking patterns that I knew deep down. I'm like, this isn't me. Like, it's not that life is supposed to be a party. It's that there was something about the self hatred and the constant feeling like I was letting myself down. Or there I just did it again. Like, why can't I get my shit together? Why can't I pull it together? Like, it seems like everybody else does. And so, you know, I lived in that just torture chamber of self criticism that I think most people do, did.

[Bert Kreischer]

You ever feel like the self criticism motivated you?

[Mel Robbins]

Well, I am a very negatively motivated person.

[Bert Kreischer]

I am. My wife calls it punitive. I thrive off punitive thoughts.

[Mel Robbins]

Yes, well, first of all, motivation is complete garbage because you will never ever, ever feel like doing what you need to do, period. Ever. It's true. Like if motivation were on tap, we'd all have a million dollars in six pack abs.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah.

[Mel Robbins]

And anybody that you admire, they didn't feel motivated. They learned the skill that we all need to learn in life, which is pushing yourself to do the things you don't feel like doing.

[Bert Kreischer]

I wrote in a journal one time, make yourself more uncomfortable.

[Mel Robbins]

Yes.

[Bert Kreischer]

I was like anything you. It seems like all the good shit that makes you feel good the next day is all the shit you shouldn't, you don't wanna do.

[Mel Robbins]

Correct. Well, I didn't understand this, and I didn't even really understand it truly, until we did all the research for the Let Them theory book, that I didn't understand the basic wiring of the brain, meaning that your brain is not. Your brain changes. You know, all these fancy words, neuroplasticity. You're wired for growth, it will adapt. But actually your brain hates change. And your brain is wired to reflexively have. You move away from the things that feel hard now. And I just thought it was a defect in me, when the truth is that there is part of the wiring, the survival mechanism that keeps you on the couch because it feels good now. And your brain is going to move towards whatever feels good and easy right now. And in order to get your ass off the couch and to go to the gym, you have to force yourself to do what is hard now. And you're not going to see any result. And so you got to keep doing it. And so, you know, back to your question. How did you get. How did you get to where you are? I want to just ground you. If you're watching or you're listening right now, kind of in the present. So. I'm 57. My husband Chris.

[Bert Kreischer]

And by the way, you look more attractive today than you did younger.

[Mel Robbins]

Well, thank you. I think it's because I'm not carrying all the bullshit.

[Bert Kreischer]

It's crazy. I was with Leanne last night and I was googling pictures of you, younger, beautiful. But for some reason I find you. And I feel the same with my wife. You're so much more attractive older. It's crazy.

[Mel Robbins]

Well, I think that when you're somebody who, when you're proud of who you are when you're not trying to be better than anybody else. When you wake up every day and I'd say 80% of the shit you do, you are aligned with your values and what's important to you. It has a funny impact on how happy you are and what your health is, because you can lay your head down on the pillow at night and go, okay, I screwed that up. I screwed that up. But you know what? Good job, Mel. You did a good job. You showed up with good intentions. You were kind to people. You were patient with your husband. You know, just like every marriage, I drive him crazy. He drives me crazy. And I feel good about how I showed up because I did my best. Wasn't perfect, but I did the best that I could. I apologize quickly when I use that tone of voice. So, 57 years old. I've been married for 29 years. I live in Southern Vermont. That's where I live. Like, I live in the mountains. I live in a town of 3,000 people. You know, I shop at a. At a store where you can buy your Carhartts and you can buy your feed and you can buy your fishing poles and you can get your, you know, your everything you need. If they don't sell it, you don't need it. And I'm a small town kind of person. And, you know, to answer your question, how did you get to the point where you have all of this success and this impact? And I will tell you that I learn everything the hard way. I have to screw up my own life in order to learn the lesson. I don't know why I can't read it in a book. I don't know why I'm not just motivated to do things. Like, there's two reasons why people change. One is they either have a moment of clarity and they're very clear about what they want, or they have massive pain. And it is going to be harder to stay where you are than it is to finally do the stuff you've been avoiding to do. And pain typically gives you a moment of clarity. And so the Mel Robbins that you see now in terms of the success of the podcast and 40 million followers, and this Let Them Theory book is a global phenomenon. It has sold 8 million copies in 11 months. It's in 63 languages already. I'm the villain in the book. I mean, that's why it's. It's a fun book to read, because I'm the one. Well, you're me, so you're like I.

[Bert Kreischer]

Thought we were the heroes.

[Mel Robbins]

No, no.

[Bert Kreischer]

The clearest thing you say in that book, I mean, it is. It's got to be. It's got to be the first chapter. And this is what I identified with the most, was you were sitting on Instagram and you saw a picture of your friend. Of your friend, and your friend looked good, and you're like, oh, she looks great. She looks awesome. Where was she? And then you saw a picture of all your friends.

[Mel Robbins]

Yeah, they were together.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah. And you're like, what the fuck? They're in Jamaica. How come no one invited Mel? I was like. I was like, all right, push pause. Set up. I was like, I deal with this all the time. I had a therapist diagnosed me as having fomo. And he was like, what? I go, is that the thing? And he was like, I think you have fomo. But the idea of not being included, not being. And then I will spiral and I start all their dialogues that they spent their whole vacation talking about me.

[Mel Robbins]

Yes.

[Bert Kreischer]

They never once thought about me. And now I'm obsessed and I start hating them. And then. And then you go like, hey, what if I. That was the aha moment for me. Tell me the aha moment where you go, but what have I done to reach out? Like, it happens to me in Austin. Cause all my friends live here and they all hang out and they take great pictures. They have a fucking professional photographer that follows them around and takes great pictures. And I get mad and I go, what the fuck? I don't even know that guy. How's he hanging out with all my friends? What the fuck are they doing? And then I go, but wait, what have I done? Why don't I fly to Austin more often?

[Mel Robbins]

Yeah. Or invite them to where you are or reach out more.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah. Or why don't I call more or text more? And I was like, oh, my God. It was the let me part that I didn't get. I wasn't doing that in life.

[Mel Robbins]

Yes. So what? So just in case you don't know what the let them theory is, let me explain it. You do not need to buy the book. I'm gonna explain it to you right now. It is dead simple. If you're a fan of stoicism, if you love the serenity prayer, if you've ever had a therapist talk to you about boundaries or detachment theory, the let them theory is a modern version of all those things reduced down to four words. And so here's how you're going to use it. Anytime you're stressed out, annoyed, hurt, Frustrated going down a spiral? Just say, let them.

[Bert Kreischer]

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[Mel Robbins]

And it could be in the example that you gave where you see a bunch of buddies going off on a golf trip and you're like, what the fuck? And that right there. Because I'm glad you gave that example, because I wondered about that example in the books. I'm like, are men gonna actually relate to that example? The truth is, of course, because it's mentally healthy, it's a sign that your brain is working correctly. If you see people hanging out that you love and you're not included, like, it's okay to feel like shit. I wish I were there. The real question, though, is, what do you then do with that feeling?

[Bert Kreischer]

That's where we all stop.

[Mel Robbins]

Yes.

[Bert Kreischer]

We have the feeling and then we go out. That's what I.

[Mel Robbins]

Or you then aim it back at you and you go, I've done something. They're bad. And so in the example that you gave, so let's say you're driving through traffic and construction and you're running late. You start gripping the wheel. Oh, my God. You can't control traffic. You can't control the jerk that just came in front of you. But all of a sudden, all of this noise on the outside, when you start to grip the steering wheel, you just let that into your brain. You just let that have power over you. How stupid that is.

[Bert Kreischer]

It's crazy. I lived on a street that was one way in Valley Village. You can find this fucking street. Everyone. Everyone used to drive the wrong way up the one way because it was shorter to get to their house. And it used to make me fucking crazy. And my fucking wife was like, but what. What are you gonna do? You can't stop it. What are you gonna do? And it would make me crazy. And I was powerless over it. Yet this one thing, they. And I go, mother. I would. I would concoct, like I should get a paintball gun and shoot. I remember one time. And allow me to indulge in this.

[Mel Robbins]

Yeah, do whatever you want.

[Bert Kreischer]

One time an old man drove the wrong way, and we were walking the girls to school.

[Mel Robbins]

Oh, God.

[Bert Kreischer]

And he almost. He didn't almost hit us, but he definitely drove too fast, too close to us for me not to say something.

[Mel Robbins]

Yeah, of course.

[Bert Kreischer]

I said, I got that. And he hopped out of his car and topped me with his. I live in this neighborhood. I live in this neighborhood. I go to Starbucks just like everyone else. I don't want to drive down. And we got. I mean, almost hit him with a Water bottle. Two weeks later I saw him walking down the street with his wife in a walker. He had had a stroke. And all I thought was, oh, if you keep up this, if you can't let them, for lack of a better. If you can't let them and just go, hey, I don't have control over this. This isn't. Then you're gonna end up one day having a stroke because you were so busy fucking fighting over the thing that you couldn't change anyway.

[Mel Robbins]

But here's an even deeper thing.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yes.

[Mel Robbins]

Your time and energy in life is the single most valuable thing you have. Because what you spend your time on and where you pour your energy determines your experience of life. And I want you to really just consider what I'm saying. And this is not just some like self help bullshit. This has been true since the beginning of time, that the more you try to control something that's out of your control, the less control you have.

[Bert Kreischer]

That's a huge thing you talk about in the book.

[Mel Robbins]

Yes. And so I want you to just. I get that the world feels like it's tilting on its axis. I get that people are so annoying and stupid and why don't they think a certain way? I get that it is so stressful to pay your bills that things don't seem fair right now. But I want you to consider, why would you allow stupid people or the stress of day to day life to rob you of your most precious resource, which is your time. It's your energy. See, you can't control the idiot driving down the street the wrong way. You can't control what's happening in the headlines. You can't control if AI is going to come and steal your job. And so when you say let them, what happens is you're not allowing anything to happen. When you say the two words let them, you're forcing yourself to recognize that this is a situation that is out of my control. It's already happened. It's happening. I can't change another person. Like, there are people that are annoying. It's true. There are things that happen that is unfair. It's true. When I say let them, I force myself to recognize, okay, wait, the outside world is getting in here where they're getting into like my stress. Then you say the second part, which is, let me, let me remind myself I always get to choose. This is stoicism. I get to choose whether or not this is worth my time. I get to choose whether or not I'm gonna allow this situation to stress me out. I Get to choose how I'm gonna respond. What do I wanna think about the guy that just drove down the street? What do I wanna do? And there are gonna be some times where the. Let me part. Once you see this idiot going down, you're like, let them. That doesn't mean I'm just throwing my hands in the air. It means, okay, let them. I'm recognizing he's stressing me out. Now. Let me. Is today the day? I am going to walk over and I'm going to hit the hood of the car and be like, what up, dude? Like, you almost hit. Like, there are times where you do do that, but now you're choosing it.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah. You're not letting the out. Okay. So I've always had a problem with stoicism.

[Mel Robbins]

Okay.

[Bert Kreischer]

Because I just heard it a bunch. That's it. Really. It's like everyone was like, oh, I'm a stoic now. And they're like Marcus Aurelius said. And I'm like, huh? And then I got to the point where I think I called out Ryan Holiday. And then Ryan reached out and he was like, I'm not smart enough to tell you my problems with stoicism, but I just know that. I go, I don't know. Isn't the sparkle, the fucking passion, the thing that fires you up in that part of the human experience? And I don't know enough about stoicism to say it is and it isn't. But if you're saying that I can understand, let them and let me. Is that stoicism?

[Mel Robbins]

It's how you apply it. See, I've always been. I have never been able to let anything go.

[Bert Kreischer]

I hold grudges.

[Mel Robbins]

Oh, well, I don't hold grudges. Because when you hold a grudge, it means you are allowing the person you're pissed off at to have power over you.

[Bert Kreischer]

Oh, no, no, no. I do my grudges different.

[Mel Robbins]

How do you do them?

[Bert Kreischer]

I let them think that we're good, and then I talk behind their backs.

[Mel Robbins]

That's such a waste of time.

[Bert Kreischer]

Oh, but it feels so good.

[Mel Robbins]

No, it doesn't.

[Bert Kreischer]

Sometimes. Yeah, it's so sensitive. It's like, I'm such a nice guy, then when I go, when you hurt me, like, I go, what? Like, I don't know. I'm also in a business full of fucking lunatics.

[Mel Robbins]

Fair.

[Bert Kreischer]

Look, it's not like I'm just building fences with a bunch of guys, right?

[Mel Robbins]

But here's what I want to tell you. Other people are very clear about who they are and how they feel about you. There's nothing confusing about other people's behavior. The confusing part is the fact that, you know, because somebody's behavior, by the way, is 100% black and white. How they feel about you and who they are. The problem is that we go upstairs in our head and instead of just letting people show us who they are, we live in a fantasy in our mind instead of the reality of what's right in front of our face.

[Bert Kreischer]

But you've had to have run into people on this journey of yours.

[Mel Robbins]

Yes.

[Bert Kreischer]

That you take and you hold close to you and you're like, I found a real one. And then all of a sudden you realize, oh, shit, that person doesn't was using me for something else.

[Mel Robbins]

Well, hold on. I will also say that if I've agreed to it, they're not using me.

[Bert Kreischer]

Okay?

[Mel Robbins]

But then there comes a time. Then there comes a time because you have stepped into something and you want something out of it too. Whether it's, I wanna be friends with this person or whatever. And here's the thing about trust. Cause you're talking about somebody violating your trust. Nobody can take that trust away from you. Because you get to choose whether you give it to somebody and whether you take it back. And so at some point in the relationship, though, you gotta really think about this. Cause there's a lot of dick. There's a lot of, like, sleazeball people out there. There's a lot of people that will take advantage of you. There's a lot of people that want access to you. And so they come at you. But at this point, you can smell them coming a mile away. But what happens is you're like, oh, well, I kind of want to. No, you have to learn to let people be who they are and who they're not. And you've got to keep your energy in check. Because when you do, let me remind myself, I always hold the cards here. Because even if I say yes to this saying, if this person rubs me wrong or says something, then I can say, no.

[Bert Kreischer]

I'm such an idiot. So I don't think I was looking at. I was naively looking at any negative interaction as they did me wrong. They wanted something from me. As opposed to honestly saying at the very beginning I wanted something from them also.

[Mel Robbins]

Yes.

[Bert Kreischer]

And I was getting it. That's why I entered this relationship.

[Mel Robbins]

Yes.

[Bert Kreischer]

And then.

[Mel Robbins]

But see this. The reason why this is important is because when you really embrace how simple this is, let them. Is a boundary you put up between you and other people. And what I love, it does start out, you mentioned, you know, it sounds like fuck em, it does start out that way. It's sort of like the Irish version. And the reason why it's important to say let them. Let's use an example where this is impacting people around the world right now. AI is here, it's coming. And there are so many of you who right now are in a job where you're scared to death that you're about to get fired or that you're about to be made redundant, that you're old, you're this, you're that. And so when you say let them, what happens is it forces you to recognize this is what's happening. And I can't control whether or not my company is going to lay me off. I can't control if AI takes my job now or two years from now. So any stress, any worrying, any gossiping with colleagues or bitching about it is wasted energy and time. I need to do the let me part, which is where you take the power mech. Oh, let me remind myself there are always three things in my control. I can choose what to think about the reality that AI's here. I can choose what I do or don't do. I can choose whether I sit here like a sitting duck waiting for it to happen, or I can choose to see the reality. Cause I'm a smart person, that this is coming. So, okay, I'm gonna choose to spend my weekend taking an AI training class. I'm gonna choose to spend some time going, do I even like what I do for a living? Maybe now is the time to make a pivot. I'm gonna choose to work on my resume instead of feeling like a victim.

[Bert Kreischer]

It doesn't have to be just AI. Cause this is so applicable. This is so applicable in so many things. And I'm not saying let them enough. And I think I'm, oh, wow.

[Mel Robbins]

I didn't. You gotta understand, I was 54 when I figured this out. This is not how I've lived my life. I've done my life the other way. I've done my life where I have bent over backwards, navigating every decision, like trying to make people happy and trying to make sure everybody likes me. Trying to make sure nobody's like mad that I didn't show up. This happens in business. I don't want to piss off my partners, so I better go to that, even though I don't want to go to that. And one of the things I want to say Very directly also, is that I think one of the things that I think has been a real disservice to everybody is that women tend to think that they own the narrative that I bend over backwards. I'm the one that's taking care of everybody. And that may be true when you look at hours spent doing a lot of the stuff at home. But the fact is, men feel just as much pressure to provide. And you guys feel like if you're not working and if you're not providing, then you're not measuring up and that everybody comes before you on the list. No, I mean, I'm.

[Bert Kreischer]

I just had this conversation. Who the fuck was I talking to? It was, oh, Cody Rhodes, the WWE Champion. I wish it was a author or something, but it was the.

[Mel Robbins]

Who cares?

[Bert Kreischer]

WWE Champion.

[Mel Robbins]

This is the thing. This is a universal thing that everybody feels on the pressure to make sure everybody else is okay and that you're doing a good job and that your kids like you and your spouse likes you and your boss likes you.

[Bert Kreischer]

If I don't work right now, then no one gets to go to college.

[Mel Robbins]

Correct.

[Bert Kreischer]

And then all of a sudden, you. You get the money to get everyone to college. But if I keep working, then I get to maybe take the family on a vacation.

[Mel Robbins]

Yes.

[Bert Kreischer]

And then I can be the provider that I want to be. And I have so much regret as a father. I have so much regret. And Leanne would deny this if she heard this.

[Mel Robbins]

What do you regret?

[Bert Kreischer]

That I spent so much time working to make sure. But then in a weird way, there's almost like a bloodletting to it, like a being burned at the stake in front of the village, going like, I'm a father. This is what we do. I spent a lot of time in airplanes. I don't like flying. You know, I don't know why it turned into Trump impression, but it's interesting that you say that, because I felt so much that, like, I was bending over backwards for everyone, but I was also following my dream.

[Mel Robbins]

Yes. Well, because. Here, let me unpack this a little bit. So I'll give you an example. Let's say that your parents want you to come home this weekend because somebody's coming by and you don't really wanna go home because you got some other plans that you need to do and you're exhausted from the week of work. But then you know the guilt is gonna come and you wanna make sure that you're a good son, wanting to be a good friend or a good son or a good spouse or A good parent. That's a beautiful thing. Absolutely beautiful thing. The issue that I could see with myself is that I was bending over backwards so that other people were happy with me. And the truth is, there's one thing in life you can't actually control, and that's other people. What they feel, what they do, what they expect, what they think, when they change, if they heal. You can't control any of that. And so I would bend over backwards and change my plans and then go home. And what do you hear when you go home? It's literally like, why can you come on Thursday? And so you're like, I can't win. Everybody said they feel I just can't win. Yes, you can. Because in that moment where you feel the pressure of guilt, whether it's coming from a business thing that you need to do or it's coming from a family member or a friend that needs to borrow your pickup, and you don't wanna let him borrow your pickup, but now he's guilting you because he really needs help with the move. And you, like. And you're like, fine. You acquiesced in order to make him. Okay. What the let them theory taught me, and I did not get this Till I was 54 years old, is that there's a different way to approach that situation. And the situation is let them be disappointed.

[Bert Kreischer]

Oh. Oh, my God. I can't.

[Mel Robbins]

Yes, you can. Let me unpack this. Disappointment is an incredible thing because.

[Bert Kreischer]

Okay, I'm gonna stop. I'll stop you. But what if you disappoint them and then they no longer want you in their life if you disappoint somebody else? That's been my fear, is that I will disappoint them. By the way, I have five thems I can think of right now. And then they're gonna go, fine, who's next? And then I go, hold on, hang on. I can be there. Let's say. Let's not. Don't worry, I'll be there. I'm your one.

[Mel Robbins]

Okay. What I'm gonna tell you and Tom.

[Bert Kreischer]

Segura, you're one of these motherfuckers.

[Mel Robbins]

Well. But what I'm gonna tell you is that if somebody is going to want you out of their life because you disappoint them once or twice, that is a relationship that has an emotional tax that is too expensive to pay.

[Bert Kreischer]

Okay.

[Mel Robbins]

And the reason why you get into these very transactional relationships is because, you know, we're relational people. Like, we're designed to be, you know, connected. To each other. And so if somebody can guilt you and hold their relationship with you over their head and it works, they're going to keep doing it. Yeah, yeah. Just like a dog with a treat. Like it works.

[Bert Kreischer]

Like, how do you apply that in business?

[Mel Robbins]

Well, let's say you've got a sponsor of this podcast.

[Bert Kreischer]

Let's. No, let's do. I'm going to do you.

[Mel Robbins]

Okay. Give me one.

[Bert Kreischer]

Let's use Netflix.

[Mel Robbins]

Okay.

[Bert Kreischer]

Netflix is like, yo, we want to do the Mel Robbins show. We want it to be weekly.

[Mel Robbins]

Okay.

[Bert Kreischer]

We want it to be a three hour long talk with you and your favorite people.

[Mel Robbins]

Yep.

[Bert Kreischer]

We want you to move out to la. And this is easy. Oh, are you in?

[Mel Robbins]

No.

[Bert Kreischer]

Okay.

[Mel Robbins]

Absolutely not.

[Bert Kreischer]

Oh, but you also. Okay. But you don't need it.

[Mel Robbins]

Well, I don't. Like, like I, I think that there are times in your life and so let me unpack the example, then we'll go back to Netflix.

[Bert Kreischer]

Okay.

[Mel Robbins]

So in that situation, the buddy wants to borrow your pickup truck, you don't want to lend it to him. Your parents want you to come home for the weekend, you already got plans, you don't want to go. And the guilt sets in and then you feel like the crush. Oh, I'm going to disappoint people. We don't even think about this consciously. We just feel the pressure.

[Bert Kreischer]

It just happens so quick.

[Mel Robbins]

So this is how you use the let them theory. When you start feeling that pressure because it feels like tension. Right.

[Bert Kreischer]

Why?

[Mel Robbins]

What are you.

[Bert Kreischer]

What I started. You said it happened so quick and it just happened to me.

[Mel Robbins]

Why? Who were you thinking?

[Bert Kreischer]

Mark Norman. Okay. I was literally like Mark Norman and I both, we just. Okay, here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna lie to the guy with the pickup truck and tell them we're on our way. And then we're gonna go to our parents house and we're just gonna keep stringing this one. Like Mark Norman and I, and he doesn't. I feel bad that I included him. But we do the same thing. We're. Or another friend of ours would be like, how far away are you really?

[Mel Robbins]

Yes.

[Bert Kreischer]

And you're like five minutes. And I've never told someone exactly how far I am in my life.

[Mel Robbins]

Yes.

[Bert Kreischer]

I'm like 20 minutes. And you have to know that's fucking 45 minutes.

[Mel Robbins]

Of course, I'm not even out the door yet.

[Bert Kreischer]

I interrupted you.

[Mel Robbins]

No, it's okay.

[Bert Kreischer]

Immediately immersed in that.

[Mel Robbins]

But see, we can all feel it. And so that's when you go, let Them. Because what's happening when you feel that, like, in your body is the pressure to make everybody else okay has just gone into your body. So let them. Is just you going, okay, let them. And now the pressure kind of disappears for a little bit and you can say, let them. Let them fucking be mad. Cause I find a little attitude helps you detach from the emotion that's making you go like this. So now you go to the let me part and you say this. Okay. Let me ask myself, what do I want to do? Do I want to. Not because I feel pressured to land the pickup truck. Not because I feel pressured to go home. What does a good friend mean to me in this moment? What does being a good son mean to me in this moment? And now I get to choose. I get to choose whether or not I'm going home under different terms. I'm only going to come Saturday. Or I get to choose. Hey, buddy. I can't. I can't do it Tuesday, but I could do it next Thursday or I'm just not comfortable. It's a brand new truck. You have a shitty. Like, you don't take care of your stuff. And that's just how I feel. Oh, man, let them. Cause here's what I'm gonna tell you. When people are disappointed, it's a good thing.

[Bert Kreischer]

It's been my biggest fear is to disappoint people.

[Mel Robbins]

But people are only disappointed. Disappointed because they want you around. Oh, like, imagine a business meeting where you're like, I can't make it. And your sponsor of the podcast, like, we're so disappointed, man. It's gonna be a great thing. Like, what is the opposite? The opposite is, oh, thank God that asshole can't come. I can't stand him. Disappointment is, oh, I just wanted you there. I care about you. It doesn't mean you have to do anything.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah, I know. You're so good at seeing the other side of the fence. I have such a hard time looking over the shrubs to even see that there is a fence.

[Mel Robbins]

Yes, well. And it's not your responsibility to make other people okay. And it's not your responsibility to remove the tension and frustration from other people's lives. It's your responsibility to show up in a way that makes you proud of who you are because you know your intentions. And you also know that it's really important that you start to pay more attention to the things that are gonna make you operate and feel like, you know, I know I'm a good son. It doesn't mean I have to bend over backwards and go out there every single weekend.

[Bert Kreischer]

I could use you on speed dial.

[Mel Robbins]

And again, I have to say, this is simple wisdom that was learned through a lifetime of doing it the other way. I was so transactional in my friendships, just like everybody else. Like, if I invite you over, you better invite me over. We see a lot of feedback from folks and families where people start saying let them, because their siblings really piss them off. And that's why we have families to learn how to love people you hate. Like, that's why everybody has a family. Because you can hate people sometimes and still love them. And what saying let them allows you to do is it allows you for the first time. Like, your mom and dad aren't changing. No, they've been the same people. And if you have somebody that's got a challenging personality in your family, they're not fucking changing. Because people only change when they're ready to change for themselves. And so when you start to say, let them. Let my brother be a narcissistic dickhead, you know, let my uncle drink too much. Let them, let them, let them, let them, let them. You're training yourself to see people and accept them as they are. And now you get to choose. If I know that this is how this person is, do I just want to limit the time? Do I want to drink a little more because it makes it a little bit easier? Do I want to limit the amount of time I spend with that person to a day? But still, showing up with my family is important because I value family. But I'm going to stop expecting them to change. And I'm gonna recognize that things only change when I decide to change how I show up. That's where all the power is.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah.

[Mel Robbins]

And again, I learned this the hard way. I'm not sitting here better than anybody else. I'm not sitting here saying, I know best. I'm saying I caused myself so much agita. When I think about my poor husband Chris. Oh, my God.

[Bert Kreischer]

You'Ve been 29 years.

[Mel Robbins]

29 years.

[Bert Kreischer]

So he's only gotten. He had 26 confusing years and three really good ones.

[Mel Robbins]

Yeah.

[Bert Kreischer]

Because, like, if you're talking about, like, because all I'm thinking about in this is, like, when my daughters were young.

[Mel Robbins]

Yep.

[Bert Kreischer]

We all lived in la. My sisters lived in la, lived down the street from me, and me and the wife lived on the same street as my sisters. And my parents come in town and my dad would say, hey, we're gonna do dinner tonight. Yep, around 9 o'. Clock. And my wife would go, will the girls have a bedtime?

[Mel Robbins]

Yep.

[Bert Kreischer]

And he'd say, well, I'm not. What time can you go? She goes, well, you know, bedtime's seven. Five would be great. He goes, really? I don't want to go to dinner at 5.

[Mel Robbins]

Okay.

[Bert Kreischer]

And it would turn into this huge fight. And I was straddling the fence, wanting to have dinner with my family. And my wife would just be like, let them go to dinner. And I know. And I couldn't get past the controlling of it of like, no, I want to have dinner with my family. And my dad was like, doesn't matter. We're going to dinner when we're going to dinner.

[Mel Robbins]

Great.

[Bert Kreischer]

And I would be. I couldn't let anybody. I couldn't let her stay there. I couldn't go with them. I couldn't. And it would just paralyze me.

[Mel Robbins]

I think that's so relatable. And what starts to happen when you recognize that you can't control what people are going to expect, what they want from you. You can't control their opinions about you. When you start to say, let them. Like in that example, like, I really respect that you guys knew and were aligned on the fact that, look, we have little kids. You're fucking retired. Like, you came to visit. This is the program during the week. The kids are going to bed at 7. Whatever. We're gonna have dinner at X if we wanna go out. That you guys knew what works for you. And when you say let them, you're not kind of like, what happens is you're taking a step back from getting pulled in. Like, you know how there are people in your life that, like, they almost, like, fish for issues. And then I'm the idiot that's, like, gramping on the thing and fighting with the thing. And so when you just, like, let them, dad, if you want to go out at nine, no problem. And you're welcome here until you go out. Would love to have you. I'm going to have dinner with my family. I'm going to tuck in the girls and then I'll come out and have a second, like, meal with you. But, you know, you gotta do what works for you. And we're just in the thick of it, dad. Now you're not freaked out. And if you know that. Cause here's. Cause two things can be true at once. You can be an incredible dad and an incredible husband. And you can know that your kids need a certain bedtime. And you can also be an awesome son. And you can figure out how to make room for both. If you want to. If you want to.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah.

[Mel Robbins]

Like, I think the thing that we forget, like, this has been this. There's a. I can't remember who the expert was that came on the podcast who said something about how, as the parent, the responsibility for the relationship is with you. Your kids owe you nothing. Because if you believe that your kids owe you something, it means that everything that you did as a parent was transactional. You were putting a deposit in this. And do you know how many times I'd be like, you're gonna act like that? I just bought you those jeans. I bought you those jeans because I'm your mom and I wanted to buy you those jeans. Now I'm holding that shit over your head. This is why women are psycho. Cause we moms are screwing them up. Everyone's complaining about the 20 somethings. I'm like, we better stop complaining about 20 somethings because we raised them. Yeah, I screwed this up so much because I was telling you. I just had that sort of. Okay, I call my brother. He better call me back. And if he doesn't call me back now, I'm gonna notice that he's not calling me back. We're keeping score with one another instead of really just letting people be who they are and letting them be who they're not. And also, I think everybody right now is going through a lot. And when you start to say let them, even to the person that might be rude with you. I was somewhere today and, you know, there was a particular person who just had this edge that's so unnecessary.

[Bert Kreischer]

Nicole Kidman.

[Mel Robbins]

I didn't mean her. I don't know. She seems amazing.

[Bert Kreischer]

I tried to kiss her on the lips.

[Mel Robbins]

You did? How did that go?

[Bert Kreischer]

Not well.

[Mel Robbins]

Wait, but she's, like, a lot taller than you. Were you wearing heels?

[Bert Kreischer]

No, no, no, no. We were at. It was so fucking awkward. It was.

[Mel Robbins]

Were you drunk?

[Bert Kreischer]

No, I was stone sober. And my wife was next to me. It was New Year's Eve and we were all celebrating New Year's Eve together, and everyone was just kissing everybody. And I kissed Bunny, I kissed Jelly, I kissed my wife, I kissed Keith Urban. And then I just went to go kiss her and she was like. And I was like, ah, fuck, what am I doing? Why would I do that? And then I laid in bed with that the whole next day.

[Mel Robbins]

Let her. Let her.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah, let her.

[Mel Robbins]

But also, the context of that makes a lot of sense. Let her.

[Tom Segura]

Let her.

[Mel Robbins]

Let her have her opinion about you. Cause she probably doesn't have a bad opinion about you.

[Bert Kreischer]

I bet you don't remember me.

[Mel Robbins]

Probably not. But you're the one. Now that is torturing yourself.

[Bert Kreischer]

I would just. I just wish I wasn't always me. Like, sometimes, like, even. I just told you half the story.

[Mel Robbins]

Okay.

[Bert Kreischer]

I didn't tell you the part where when I went in to kiss her and she pulled back, I. Then I was like, I'm really excited for your new movie. She was like, huh? And I was like, the one where you have sex with the young guy. She was like. And so then I was like, why the fuck.

[Mel Robbins]

Wait, was that the one? Were you talking about somebody else's movie?

[Bert Kreischer]

I don't know. I just said that. It was so awkward. Mel, I have a. I have. I'm. Yeah, I'm my own worst enemy. I get so excited in moments. I think I live outside myself. And by the way, as you're talking about all this shit, my dad. I need you to meet my dad because there's so much sun pack there. I love the guys. I think I love him too much. Is it possible to love your parent too much?

[Mel Robbins]

Well, is it that you love him or is that you really need him to approve of everything? Because those are two different things.

[Bert Kreischer]

It's the second. Okay, I love him, of course, but his approval is the most important thing for me.

[Mel Robbins]

Yes.

[Bert Kreischer]

Like.

[Mel Robbins]

Yeah, but that's. But here's what I want to keep validating. That's a really awesome thing, to want people that you love to be proud of you and to know that they can rely on you. And it doesn't mean that you have to do absolutely everything that he needs you to do. Like, the beautiful thing about human beings is that we can feel lots of different things. So if we go back to the disappointment thing, there are going to be moments where you disappoint your dad. And when you say, let him, let him be disappointed. It just means that he expected me to do something different. And he can be disappointed and still love me. Think about how many people piss you off. They don't do what you want them to do. You have an opinion in your mind that if only they were more motivated, or if this. And you have all this critical shit about this other person and you still love them, and if they really needed you, you would be there. So we know that we do that for other people, and yet we don't understand that other people can feel two things about us at once. This is marriage, by the way. Right. Because there are times where Leanne hates you. There are Times where Chris hates me and he also loves me to death.

[Bert Kreischer]

This morning she hated my guts.

[Mel Robbins]

Okay, what did you do?

[Bert Kreischer]

I gave her a hug and she had a headache and she goes, don't you dare touch me. Don't. Don't you dare touch me on things. I'm waiting. No. But then I did. I was really good today. As I was like. She got a headache.

[Mel Robbins]

Yeah.

[Bert Kreischer]

I was in such a good mood. I was in such a good mood. So I'm not gonna let this affect me.

[Mel Robbins]

Great.

[Bert Kreischer]

And I gave her space. And by the time we pulled up to the airport, her headache medication kicked in and she was like, I'm sorry. And I was like, hey, it's okay. I'm here for you. Wait, I gotta ask you some. I haven't asked you any questions. I don't think, I think I've just listened to. And this is, I'm. This is. I hope our listeners are letting this soak in the way this is soaking in with me. Because that's the beautiful thing about this book, is that it, it's a great.

[Mel Robbins]

Book to buy for other people and I'll tell you why. Because you've been trying to change them your entire life. Turn them over to me and.

[Bert Kreischer]

Oh fuck. My wife got me this book.

[Mel Robbins]

Yep, that's why.

[Bert Kreischer]

Oh shit.

[Mel Robbins]

Yep, that's why. Hold on.

[Bert Kreischer]

She.

[Mel Robbins]

Uh huh. This is gonna be.

[Bert Kreischer]

Are you fucking kidding me?

[Mel Robbins]

Liam, this is the best holiday present, the best graduation gift because you literally are going to give people their power back, their time back, their energy back. And you free yourself of the burden of now trying to change everybody in your life. This book has brought so many families together because we've all been so busy judging each other and being pissed off and, and being transactional. And I wanna host Thanksgiving and you don't do this and you're not helping. And in all that judgment, we actually distance ourselves from people. And when you're just like, let my sister be a bitch today, let my mom be annoying, let my dad do whatever he's gonna. I mean, they're 80 years old. Learn to love them as they are. And when you learn to see people as they are and as they're not, you are less stressed and you're not bracing. You have this kind of looseness to you and it gives you so much power because you can see exactly what's happening. It's how you take responsibility and how you take your power back. And look at the word responsibility. Responsibility is just the ability to respond.

[Bert Kreischer]

Do that again.

[Mel Robbins]

Responsibility. Responsibility is the ability to respond.

[Bert Kreischer]

So if you're responsible, you just, you're just able to respond. People can trust that you're gonna respond.

[Mel Robbins]

Yes. And that you're able. No. But who. Who trusts you do I can trust in my ability to respond to what life is throwing at me in a way where I may not get it right, but I'll know I did my best. I trust in my ability. Like a big thing for me. One of the things that I really struggled with is I was like a walking volcano.

[Bert Kreischer]

Really Well.

[Mel Robbins]

I just had so much pent up anxiety and frustration with myself. And, you know, just to give you a little bit of the backstory, I found out at the age of 47 that I had ADHD. And women are women and girls, rather, girls and boys are dealing with ADHD at roughly the same levels. But in the 1970s when it was studied, they only looked at boys.

[Bert Kreischer]

It was just boys. I'm your age, what am I talking about? Yeah. I was like, that's funny. That same happened to me.

[Mel Robbins]

Yes. And so they only looked at boys and.

[Bert Kreischer]

Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder.

[Mel Robbins]

Yeah. And when you look at the symptoms and how they present in boys and girls, boys tend to be a little bit more physical and fidgety and interrupt class and that kind of stuff. Girls have the opposite effect. What happens is you get quiet and you start to get very self critical and you start to pull back a little bit. And what the medical experts say is that the number one symptom that happens when a kid, boy or girl, has undiagnosed adhd, ADD or something like dyslexia, which I also have and did not know until I was 47.

[Bert Kreischer]

You should say dyslexia.

[Mel Robbins]

Yeah.

[Bert Kreischer]

By the way, my ADHD kicked in so much that I didn't hear the word dyslexia. And I was like, wait, what are we talking about? I have dyslexia too.

[Mel Robbins]

Yes.

[Bert Kreischer]

So does my daughter. My daughter's got it wild.

[Mel Robbins]

Yes. And it's this incredible gift, if you know that you have it. Yes, yes. Because your brain. We'll get into that later. But so if you are sitting in a classroom all day and your brain developmentally cannot do what is being asked of you, whether it's to be able to direct your focus or just quiet your body or be able to pay attention to the teacher versus the grumbling in your stomach or hearing the people over here, what develops on the surface is anxiety. Of course it would. Because you're in a situation where you're bracing because you know, everybody else seems to have it together, but your, like, insides are on fire.

[Bert Kreischer]

Like, when the teacher would go, all right, let's pull our notes or notebooks. Let's take notes, Mel. I would just sit there and go, what words do we write down? And I'd do the thing because it was like, you put. Like, you put one and then a. With a thing like that.

[Mel Robbins]

Yeah.

[Bert Kreischer]

And I would be like. Like an outline. And I go, notes, yeah. And then I'd be like. And then I'd look at other people's notes. Okay. Write down.

[Mel Robbins]

Yeah.

[Bert Kreischer]

Jesus of Nazareth or whatever. And I never. I've never studied for a test. I don't know how I graduated college. I don't know how I graduated high school. I don't know how I ever. I still have a hard time telling you information. You can tell me something. And I just. And I totally forget it. And the anxiety I had growing up was wild, of course. Just wild.

[Mel Robbins]

But doesn't it make sense now?

[Bert Kreischer]

It does.

[Mel Robbins]

Yeah.

[Bert Kreischer]

And thank God, because it turned out good. But I feel for all those people listening right now going, wait, I got that shit. And I'm working at Walmart. You go, yeah, I know. That happens too.

[Mel Robbins]

Yeah. And look, Walmart's a great company to work for. Like, there's no shame in working at Walmart. Like, I think, like, the thing that is really important to understand is that if there were. If you had an issue with the way that you learn or with the ability to focus when you needed to, and it did not get addressed, what develops on the outside is anxiety. And what happened with. They call us the lost generation of women. There were almost two decades of us women who had dyslexia or ADHD or add, who we didn't know. And all of a sudden you become the psycho chick that I used to be. And now you have chronic anxiety. I used to chug milk of Melanta, the blue bottle. I remember that before a track meet because my stomach was on fire. I couldn't get myself to focus. Like, the anxiety after being in class all day and terrified that I'm gonna get called on. And I don't know what's. It just spirals. And so there's decades long women who were medicated for anxiety when the primary issue was a learning style difference or a focus and neurodivergent thing like ADD or adhd. And do you know the number one way that women find out that they have ADD or adhd?

[Bert Kreischer]

Oprah.

[Mel Robbins]

Nope. You have a kid who's struggling in School. And you go through the neuropsych process.

[Bert Kreischer]

You got one of those.

[Mel Robbins]

Oh, all my kids, like, all three of our kids have dyslexia.

[Bert Kreischer]

For real?

[Mel Robbins]

All three of them. And two of them have also have struggled with adhd. But here's the. Our son, Oakley, was really having a hard time in school, and the anxiety was through the roof. And everybody kept saying he was in fourth grade. Like, no, it's behavior. No, it's behavior. And I'm like, no, I know my kid. Like, he's not. And he was starting to develop these bruises on his hands. And he would come home, and I'm like, did you gonna fight? What's gonna. He's like. And he'd start crying. He's like, I don't know. I don't know. And then I realized, oh, my God, he's wringing his hands in class to the point where he is bruising his own hands because he is so anxious. And so luckily, this was at a point where we could afford to get a neuropsych exam. And as we get the results back, and I'm going over them with our pediatrician, he's reading through. He's had dyslexia. This. And he's going through. I'm like, God, that sounds a lot like me. I'm like, Dr. Blumenthal, do you think I might have ADHD? And he turns and he looks at me and he goes, do I think you, Mel, you're the most ADHD parent I have in my practice. Do you know every beginning of every school year, we're waiting for you to call in a panic because you have forgotten their well appointment, and now the, like, physicals are due and your kids now can't play sports, and you're in a panic to get them in. You are the. And I looked at him, and you know what I said? Why didn't you tell me? He was like, I'm not your doctor. I was 47 when that happened. I went and got evaluated. I tried Adderall for the. It was like, everything went. And I gotta tell you, I felt so sad for the teenager. 20.

[Bert Kreischer]

That didn't get to that.

[Mel Robbins]

And I feel so. And this is kind of one of the things that drives me is that there were so many times in my life where I, like, hurt myself or I hurt other people because I didn't know, like, what I was dealing with. And I didn't know how to, like, get myself out of, like, the behavior or the thoughts. I didn't know that other people felt this way. I didn't even know how to talk about it. I mean, I'm 57, so 30 years ago, you wouldn't be caught dead in a self help aisle. Nobody went to a therapist. Like, give me a break. And so we suffered alone. And, you know, it's probably why I would constantly be drinking all the time, because it quieted my brain. I just didn't know.

[Bert Kreischer]

We took Isla to Brain Camp. I don't know what it's called.

[Mel Robbins]

There's such a thing.

[Bert Kreischer]

We called it. We called it Brain Camp. I don't. It's. Sure there's like a real name for it. I don't know, it's like a therapist. It was like brain therapy.

[Mel Robbins]

Yep.

[Bert Kreischer]

Dyslexia, add. It's just Isla was. There was a lot going on.

[Mel Robbins]

Did it help?

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah, I think.

[Mel Robbins]

Well, I think it also helps to know that it's not you and to also know you're not the only one.

[Bert Kreischer]

The lady was explaining what was going on with Isla to me and Leanne and she said, you know, usually this has. There's a parent that has this. Leanne's like, Leanne looked at me and I wasn't listening and I was doing what my brain does. And she goes, Mr. Kreisler. And I went, are you from Edmonton? She said, excuse me? I said, where are you from in Canada? She goes, I'm from Edmonton. I said, just outside Edmonton. She goes, yeah. I go, you have a boyfriend with a truck? She was like, why does this matter? I go, did you? She goes, yeah. And I went, cool. And they go, you know what we're talking about? I was like, no, what were we talking about? I just. Whatever my brain was doing was on that, and that was my skill set. And I have no ability to listen. I have zero ability to. And I. I feel bad. It's almost nice when you said that. When I. When you're getting a little emotional, I was like, yeah, I could forgive myself for a lot of this shit where I was just like, fucking lost.

[Mel Robbins]

Yeah.

[Bert Kreischer]

Like I had no coping skills. Wait, so then a weird sidebar question. I always, you know, I'm always fascinated by you. Are these. This, for lack of better words, not fully processed human all the way up to like 54. And then all of a sudden life changes and you become everyone's answer. Everyone looks to you, and all of a sudden you have wealth and you have everything you've ever wanted. What's 54 to 55 look like? That had to be confusing, right?

[Mel Robbins]

Okay, so since you And I are both crazy ADHD and the same person. I'm gonna take us all the way back to the beginning.

[Bert Kreischer]

Okay.

[Mel Robbins]

When you asked the question, how did Mel Robbins that we see today get here? And now we'll go to the part of the story where I'm 41 years old and my husband's gone into the restaurant business.

[Bert Kreischer]

And I love this, by the way. I love this part of the story.

[Mel Robbins]

I think so. We got three kids under the age of 10. My husband has been laid off from, like, the seventh job that he has had because he is now he's trying to climb the corporate ladder. He's trying to, you know, prove to his dad, who has died, that he can be successful. And my husband is not motivated by money. He's not motivated by status. The man would live in a yurt if I would allow it. I will not. But that's a whole different conversation. He is such an extraordinary human being, and he is just. There's nothing corporate about the guy. So he gets laid off and comes home and says, I lost a job again, and I am pregnant with our son, who's now 20. And he said. I said, no problem. No problem. You know, you can get another job, honey. We're gonna, like. I'm trying to pick up my man, you know? And he's like, no, I don't think I'm gonna get another job. I was like, excuse me? He's like, yeah, I'm tired of working for other people and trying to sell things that I don't believe in. I'm not gonna do that anymore. And I looked down. We bought this old fixer upper. It has raccoons living inside of it. You know, we were the whole. Buy the cheapest house you can find in the best. We bought, like, Amityville Horror.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah.

[Mel Robbins]

And I'm, you know, working full time, and I'm like, is there, like, a trust fund I don't know about? Like, what do you mean you're not going to work? And he said, no, I'm just tired of being miserable. I. And we got in this. We got in a huge fight. We fought for a month on end.

[Bert Kreischer]

Fighting with you is so confusing.

[Mel Robbins]

Well. Cause back then, I also would fight when I'm mean. I'm like, a mean fighter.

[Bert Kreischer]

No.

[Mel Robbins]

Oh, come on now.

[Bert Kreischer]

Are you being serious? I think.

[Mel Robbins]

Excuse me.

[Bert Kreischer]

I think usually I get lost in fights and I can't remember.

[Mel Robbins]

Oh, you're like the kitchen sink. You throw this shit. You try to confuse us.

[Bert Kreischer]

No, Leanne will confuse me, especially if I'm drinking, and then I'll be in the fight going, wait, what are we fighting about? I forgot. And all I know is I'm fighting to say she's gaslighting me. And she never says that. She never missed a gaslighting me. But I know she's gaslighting me. But I can't remember what the original fight was about. But I bet you.

[Mel Robbins]

Oh, no. One of the things that I've worked very hard on is to get. You talked about holding a gr. I do not want any of that anger energy in me. I just don't. I feel like if you're somebody that's very self critical and you're frustrated with yourself, that frustration with yourself can come out and you can lash out at the people you care about most. And then once it's out of your mouth, you cannot, like, claw it back in. And then I was the person that was constantly apologizing to my kids and my husband for my tone of voice.

[Bert Kreischer]

Oh, wow. Okay.

[Mel Robbins]

I did not want to be that person.

[Bert Kreischer]

Oh, yeah. And so my daughter Georgia said, just so you know, when you yell, that's as bad as it's gonna get. So why wouldn't I lie? Because what if I get. Best case scenario, you don't find out and I don't get yelled at. But you're just gonna yell, and if I lie, you're just gonna yell more. So, yes, maybe try not yelling. And I went, huh? And then I. I was in therapy at the time, and I took that therapy and I. And I was like, all right, maybe if I don't yell at all, maybe if I just try to listen to her or. And then the next time she took her car out, she had friends in it and she wasn't supposed to. And I was like, she came back. You could see it in her eyes. He's going to yell. She was like, go ahead, give it to me. Almost like, all right, how bad can this be? I've been here before. And I said, you're not in trouble. I understand. You break the rules. All I want you to do is write like a thousand words. Not tonight. You can go out with your friends, write a thousand words on why you think that upsets me and mom. And she started bawling, crying. She was like, wait, you're not going to yell at me? And I was like, no. I go, you saw? Yelling doesn't work. And she was like, I know what you're saying. The tone. Keep going.

[Mel Robbins]

Apologize. No, that's okay. Don't apologize. It's a great, great story and I think it's very helpful to hear it. So I gotta hand it to Chris. Like he really just stood up, said, no, we're doing it. And I said, fine, let's sit down and look at the money. And by cutting back, he could do a 16 month Runway. And if the restaurant was open by then, we couldn't afford to open the restaurant. But if they raised money and if they could get the cash register ringing and if they could make a certain amount of money by a certain amount of time, he didn't have to get a job. But if 16 months went by and I'm talking like nobody wants to do this, like everybody want to talk how they're struggling. But if you really are struggling with money, the first place you have to look is, is actually where your money is going. Because the average person in the United states has over $700 in subscriptions that are sucked out of your paycheck.

[Bert Kreischer]

What's the name of the podcast sponsor you have to do work with these people? We have a podcast sponsor who goes through and gets your subscriptions.

[Mel Robbins]

Oh, Rocket. Is it Rocket money?

[Bert Kreischer]

Is it rocket money? It's rocket money. They fucking rock. They're awesome.

[Mel Robbins]

Why you wouldn't use this? I don't know. Cause you're gonna see so much stuff that is sucked out of your paycheck.

[Bert Kreischer]

It's crazy how much money they can save you crazy. Keep going. I apologize.

[Mel Robbins]

So anyway, so we did all that. We cut back and by God, they got the restaurant open. And it was amazing. Amazing. 40 seat, local pizza joint, you know, working with the local farm. It was amazing. And then like complete idiots, we ignored everybody's advice and we cashed out the 401ks, we cashed out our kids mediocre college funds, we took out a home equity line. Cause that's free money. We got every credit card we possibly could. Because what could possibly go wrong in the restaurant business? Friends and family invest. Did I tell you this was 2007, 2008?

[Bert Kreischer]

No.

[Mel Robbins]

When the world turned upside down?

[Bert Kreischer]

No. Oh, shit.

[Mel Robbins]

So location number two was the wrong location. This happens every restaurateur will tell you. Restaurant business is wonderful restaurant for the person who buys the restaurant from you. But if you are lucky enough to get beyond one location out of the first three or four, one of them is going to fail. And that's likely why you will fail. And so it was location number two for them. Twice as expensive. Wrong location. Knew it from the beginning. Six weeks in, they knew it. They Just knew it. And by that point, it had showed up all the money that they had raised to get the third one open. So now we're factoring. Now we're doing a lease plus, and, you know, to speak to. And this is something that's really important to remember in a relationship. Remember who you married, because in those moments where life gets really hard, you forget. And then you turn the person who's trying their best into the monster. And when life gets really hard, and it will for all of us, you want to remember who you married, because again, nobody's trying to fuck you over. Nobody's trying to screw things up. Nobody's trying to go bankrupt. Life is so hard. And one of the things that I really regret is that as the liens hit the house, I lose my job.

[Bert Kreischer]

Fuck.

[Mel Robbins]

We have three kids under the age of 10. That I made Chris the enemy because it's easier to be angry than it is to be afraid. And I was so afraid. I had never in a million years thought, oh, my dream for my life. I'd love to be a million dollars in debt. Let's have liens on the house. Let's make a vision board with bankruptcy and divorce on it. Let's throw up some Alcoholic Anonymous up there. That's the dream for my life. And so, again, to this point where we all want to do well, we all want to thrive, life is going to happen. Life is not fair. I don't think things happen for a reason. I think things happen, and then it's on you to find a reason to keep going.

[Bert Kreischer]

The most important thing I've heard you say this whole fucking podcast is, remember who you married, because God damn it, Leanne, you remember when Priscilla had her knee. Edit this shit out.

[Mel Robbins]

Don't you dare. Don't you dare edit this out.

[Bert Kreischer]

Our dog had, like, five knee surgeries, and Leanne dealt with all of it. I was on the road, and she took him to the vet that was, like, you know, 10 minutes away. And the vet was a hack. I mean, he left a wire in her knee at one point, and it was so painful for the dog to. But for the girls to deal with the dog. And then we found this really great vet, but it was so fucked up. You had to get on the five, and then you got off the five, and his office was on the on ramp. It was so. Was so hard to get to. And you had to get the dog in the car. I mean, it was such a nightmare. And she had two young kids. And then that doctor was like, Oh, I wish you had found me first. I was so mad at Leanne, as if she wanted the dog to go through pain, as if she wanted to look silly, as if she wanted to be blamed. That if we had just gone to this first doctor, and I was so mad at her, and I. Not that I. I haven't been holding on to it, but when you said that, I was like, remember who I married? She didn't want that shit to happen. And if it had been me, and I had two young girls at home and my wife was gone, and this dog needed knee surgery, absolutely. I would have gone to the closest vet to get it done. What do I know? We are not dog experts. But it's so funny. It's so much easier. It's so much easier to go, none of this is my fault. This is all your fucking fault.

[Mel Robbins]

Yeah.

[Bert Kreischer]

Oh, wow. So wait. How did your. Wait. Tell me what happens with Chris.

[Mel Robbins]

Oh, Chris is amazing, but so, like, I turn him in, like, as if he's trying to fail.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah. As if he wanted to go.

[Mel Robbins]

The guy. The guy. Literally, they're bouncing payroll checks. We're $800,000 in debt. We have liens on the house. The phone starts ringing. It's collectors. I unplug the phone, as if that's gonna make it go away. The bills start piling up on the kitchen counter. And if you've ever been in this situation, you know, one of the hardest things in the world is to open a bill.

[Bert Kreischer]

I've never done it.

[Mel Robbins]

I used to do this thing at the grocery store where they'd be scanning the items. I knew there was no money in the account. I was unemployed. I knew there was no money. And they're like, debit or credit. And I'm like, credit hoping that there's a glitch somehow in the electrical wires. And when this sucker swipes, they're gonna let it go through. And they'd be like, I'm sorry it didn't go through. And I had it rehearsed. I would cock my head and I'd go, oh, that's weird. It just worked at the gas station. Come on, kids. I've got another card out in the car. And we would leave and drive away, and I became a person I did not recognize. I literally drank myself into the ground. I would lay in bed, and the alarm would ring, and I'd be like, I hate my life. I hate Chris. I hate. Fuck this. Like, I would hit the snooze button four, five, six times every morning. You want to Know how you know you're failing at parenting? Your kids wake you up, and you are hungover in your bed after hitting the snooze button four or five times because they've missed the bus. And that's where my story begins. On the verge of losing everything, like being a complete bitch to my husband, who's doing everything he can to figure this out, drinking myself into the ground. And this sets up kind of the core of what I started talking about, which is you can know what to do. That just makes you smart.

[Bert Kreischer]

Oh, and. And when you talk about being uncomfortable, the hardest thing to do in that situation. You're angry at your husband, your kids, you're drinking. The hardest thing to do is go, I'm not going to drink tonight. Because it's so easy to drink tonight. The glass of wine is. The one solace you have in that day is, hey, I get a glass of wine at the end of this night, and I'm making this all go away. The next morning, you're like, God damn it, I'm in the same fucking spot.

[Mel Robbins]

Yes, yes, yes. And so this was, like, day after day after. I knew what I needed. I needed to find a job. I needed to call my parents and tell them what was going on and ask for help. I needed to tell my friends what was going on. But some of them, they'd invested in the business. I needed to, like, start. I needed to exercise because I was so stressed. I needed to eat better. I needed to have one bourbon, not four. And so when people ask me, how did you get where you are? The answer is, I learned how to get out of bed on the mornings I didn't feel like it. And the story is very dumb, but this is what happened. I was sitting in our living room. Chris was nowhere to be found. Cause he's a very smart man. He's like, I don't want. You don't want. I don't want to be near her. And I'm watching tv, and I'm having one of those pep talks that you have with yourself when you're, like, nearing the rock bottom and you're. I was like, all right, that's it, woman. Tomorrow morning, it's a new you. Tomorrow morning, you have got to find a job. You have got to tell your. But you have got to stop screaming at Chris. You've got to stop drinking so much. You got to pull your shit together, woman. And by God, when that alarm rings, you cannot lay there like a human pot roast, marinating in fear. You have got to get out of bed and get those kids on that bus. And all of a sudden this rocket ship launches across a television screen. And I'm like, I was so drunk. I'm like, it's a sign from God. I hear you, Lord. Like, I'll do it. I'll launch out of bed like a rocket ship. I could have so easily just dismissed that moment. I could have seen so easily. Like, I often think about that sliding door moment because I do believe you're one decision away from a different life.

[Bert Kreischer]

100%.

[Mel Robbins]

Now, that's what changes the trajectory of your life. One decision. The results show up over time.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yes.

[Mel Robbins]

And so you have to keep making the one decision that keeps you moving in the right direction. But for me, that one decision was the very next morning. It was a Tuesday morning in February 2008. The alarm goes off. And let's use the alarm clock as a metaphor, right? For all the alarms that go off inside you every day. Your intuition, your confidence, your desire to thrive and do better. It is sounding all day long in small ways. So the alarm goes off and I immediately remembered the rocket launch. I mean, I'm the one that set the alarm. If you really think about it, you know what to do. Getting out of bed is technically simple, but some days it feels like climbing Everest.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah.

[Mel Robbins]

And so the alarm rings. I remember that idea. And then this is when I saw something that changed my entire life. And this was the beginning. This would lead to the beginning of talking about the things that I was fucking up and that I was learning, and it leading 16 years later to this moment. So the alarm goes off. And what happens in life is we make this fatal mistake where you hesitate and you stop and think about whether or not you feel like doing what you need to do. How many of us have stayed in a relationship for six months, six years, six weeks too long, because we walk. Today I'm having that conversation. Today I'm having that conversation. And then you're like, hi, honey, you want meh? And you're like, I don't think I feel like. And next thing you know, you're sliding into the life you don't want.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah.

[Mel Robbins]

And so I see this, and there's this five second window that defines your whole life.

[Bert Kreischer]

I love this. This is your first book, right?

[Mel Robbins]

Yeah.

[Bert Kreischer]

I love this. I fucking love this.

[Mel Robbins]

It literally is this 5 second. It defines your whole life. It's this moment between knowing what to do and actually doing it. And if you think about doing something for more than five seconds, the brain science is Very clear. Within five seconds, all motivation is gone. The automatic parts of your brain and all the old habits that you have, they kick in. This five second moment of hesitation, that's where all the excuses, all the anxiety, all the habits, it all kicks in. It's all in this win. You either win in that five second moment or you're fucked. Or I was. And so that morning, I started thinking, I don't want to get out of bed. It's cold, it's dark. We're 800. I hate my husband. I hate my life. Like, just reaching for the snooze button, I just started counting backwards. 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. And then I stood up. And I'll tell you, it's the smallest thing, but even in that first morning, it felt like a victory. Not like a victory like bleh. But just like this. Oh. Because it was the first morning in six months that the anxiety and the depression and the anger didn't win. It was the first morning that the person that I wanted to be acted consistently with who I knew deep down I could be. And the thing I will tell you is that you will never feel ready to change your life. But at any moment, you can decide that where you're at no longer works. It just doesn't feel good. Maybe it worked last year, maybe it worked for the last 10 years. But if there's an area of your life that you just. It just doesn't feel like the way you want it to feel. The most beautiful thing about the human experience is we are actually wired to change. And it can take hold pretty quickly. Doesn't mean it's easy.

[Bert Kreischer]

It's not easy. And it feels. That thing you said, it feels so fucking good.

[Mel Robbins]

Yes.

[Bert Kreischer]

It feels crazy. Almost like an awakening.

[Mel Robbins]

Yes, yes. But it doesn't sustain you. So here's. So I always say to people, if you want to know how I became the person that you see now, it's because I taught myself how to get out of beds on the mornings I didn't fucking feel like it. And that skill of being able to act no matter how your emotions feel, that is the skill that everybody needs to know. Like, if you're struggling with depression, your emotion and the disease is lying to you. And everything that your doctors are telling you to do, you're actually capable of doing. But it's gonna require you to force yourself. And it's like moving through mud to do the things everybody's recommending that do work, knowing that you're not gonna feel like it. And I also Wanna say something? I hate all that research that says it takes 21 days to make a habit. I think that's complete horseshit.

[Bert Kreischer]

I agree.

[Mel Robbins]

That's only true if you like it. I am a person who to this day hates getting out of bed. There is just something in my wiring. I hate getting out of bed. And just this morning, five, four, three. I have to use this because, you know, I pick up the dog shit. I don't want to pick it up. Yeah, I pick it up. I don't like unloading the dishwasher. I do it. You can make yourself do the things you don't feel like doing. And if you develop that as a habit, you will actually have everything you've ever wanted in life over time. And so the shorter version of the story is I used it, and the only person I told was my husband. And I use this little countdown thing. 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. From 2008 to 2011, I probably used it 25 times a day. 5431, pick up the phone, tell people you need a job. 5431, go for a walk. 531, don't buy that thing at DSW.

[Bert Kreischer]

5431, listen to what she's saying. 5, 4, 3 to 1. I don't want to date right now. You don't want to date that girl anymore. You're done with her. And don't cheat on her. Just 5431, make the call, send a text, say, we have to have dinner. I need to tell you something.

[Mel Robbins]

Yeah, I need to talk to you. That's it.

[Bert Kreischer]

Pulling the Bandit off.

[Mel Robbins]

You are going to feel like it. And by the way, if it feels hard, that's a good thing because it means you care about this person. The important things in life feel hard. Everybody wants to tell the story. The rags to riches story of, I was sleeping in my car and now I'm here, but nobody wants to sleep in their car. Like, this is the price you pay to have the things in your life that you want. And it's not easy. And I will tell you that those three years, they were grueling. It is not easy to work three jobs. It is not easy to take a breath before you walk in and not vomit your stress on your family. It's not easy to have one bourbon instead of four. It's not easy to work all day at a job, put the kids to bed, make dinner, clean up, feed the dogs, and then try to figure out how to make more money. But that's what I did. Like, everybody's like, how'd you become? I'm like, it's boring. It's grueling. It's you against you. That's what it is. And it's what? And every day you wake up, you get another blank page. Are you going to do the things that are easy, which makes your life hard later on? Are you gonna do the hard thing now so you can put your head on the pillow and be proud of yourself? Because you didn't let the emotions and the stress, which are very real, by the way, you are justified in feeling how you feel now. What are you gonna do about it? And for me, I didn't wanna lose a house. I didn't want my story to end at 41, that we went bankrupt. I didn't want my marriage to implode. I didn't want to be an alcoholic. And there were days that I felt proud of myself. There were so many days where I didn't. It's like, I kind of think, like, change. Like, you go up a flight of stairs, you hit a landing, doesn't mean you didn't go up the flight of stairs. Then you're gonna go up again. And so you're gonna have days where you do well, and then you're gonna have days where you really blow it. Or weeks. Or months, in my case. And the true test of who you are is what you do on the morning after a day that you blew it. Because you get to choose. All right? Am I gonna just pound myself into the ground and be the one, the biggest obstacle in my own way? Cause I am arguing against myself every step of the way. Or am I gonna brush myself off and I'm gonna say, some of the best days of my life are ahead of me. And through my attitude, my actions, if I just stay focused on today and if I just make decisions that based on the information I have, I'm making the best decision I can. That's my North Star. And so I did that for three years. And we started to get back on track, and we didn't pay off. We had liens on, like, we had liens on the house for, like, years. Like, long time. Cause it takes a long. That's a lot of money. And so I have worked a couple jobs. I'm now, like, got a full time job. The restaurant business is still cratering, but they're at least able to, like, stabilize it. We're on payment plans for our credit cards. You know, we got the drinking under control. And somebody calls Me and says as a friend from college, she goes, you know, there's somebody doing event in San Francisco and they're looking for somebody who's changed their job a lot. And I thought of you like, that's not a compliment. And she goes, I said, okay. And she said, they're looking for somebody to talk about. I'm like, well, I've never given a speech. And she said, well, they're offering two plane tickets to San Francisco and two nights at the St. Regis. And if you're, you've got liens on your house, you know what, that sounds like a vacation. So my parents come babysit, my husband and I fly, hop on the plane. This is 2011.

[Bert Kreischer]

Wow.

[Mel Robbins]

Yep. And it didn't even occur to me, like to think about the speech. I've never told anybody about the 5 second rule. I really feel like I've been given this little secret thing from God or the universe. Right. Only Chris and I know about it. And this 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 thing. And this was one of the first ever TEDx conferences. I didn't even know what TED was. So I walk out on stage. If you look at my TEDx talk, which is now one of the most watched ones in the world.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah.

[Mel Robbins]

Look closely at minute one, you will see that I have that neck rash that people get when they're wasted or they're having a panic attack.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah.

[Mel Robbins]

I am basically disassociated. I am having this huge anxiety moment, darting all over the stage, talking about career change. I don't even remember being there. And at the end, about 19 minutes in, I look out, I completely forget how it ended. And I look out at 700 people and I'm like, oh, there's this thing I do. I call it the five second rule. The moment you have an instinct to move, you gotta move within five seconds or else your brain will kill your motivation to act. Thank you very much. Oh, and if you have questions, here's my email. I leave. A year goes by and they put it online. I don't even know, it starts to go viral. I'm busy working my job, paying my bills. You know, we're just like normal, slugging it out. And all of a sudden people start to email me at this email address. Oh, I saw that thing. I've been using the five. I lost £100. Oh my God. I got sober because, oh my God, I didn't jump off a bridge because I stopped and counted 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. Then like found the ability to ask for help and people Started to write about these incredible stories, and I couldn't believe it. I could not believe it. And I would work all day, and then I would come home and I would put the kids to bed, pour a glass of wine, and I would sit there and answer people's emails every night. And in 2013, people started to ask me if I would come speak for free, you know, and redo the talk. And I had so many, like, stories of people. And that's why I'm actually in Austin, because in 2013, one of the first people to ever invite me to come speak and redo that talk was the Texas Conference for Women. And today I walked into Moody Stadium 13 years later and spoke at that same conference.

[Bert Kreischer]

Wow.

[Mel Robbins]

Only now I was the headliner. And so I didn't know that normal people would. Could get paid to speak. I. I didn't have a book. I wasn't anybody. I just was somebody who was trying to do a little better. And I got so much fulfillment just emailing back and forth with people around the world about how they were using this thing. And so long. And the short of it is, I had this experience where I was speaking for free at another conference. Cause I just didn't know you could get paid. Cause I'm an idiot. And somebody comes up to me at the end of 2013 and says, Hey, I spoke at one of the breakout sessions this morning, and I just sat in your session, and you were really great. And can I ask you a question, speaker to speaker? And I thought she was going to ask me, like, about the PowerPoint or something. And she goes, did you get your check yet? I said, check, you got paid for this. And she took a step back and was like, oh, my God, I'm so sorry. I just assumed. I just assumed you. And so I had, like. I've had a couple moments in my life. I don't know if dudes do this, but I've had a couple moments where you're in public and you just either get crushing news or you are so overwhelmed by, like, I don't even know how to feel, and I don't want to cry in public or scream or punch a wall that you walk into a public bathroom and you then walk into a stall and shut the door and with your pants on, you sit on the toilet and either cry or yell or. Like, I've had a number of.

[Bert Kreischer]

I don't cry that often. But, yeah, I can imagine that would happen.

[Mel Robbins]

Yeah. And so. And then I didn't know what to charge and so steal this, because this is great. If you don't know what to charge for your service, here's what you're going to do the next time somebody calls you. Because this was a little promise I made to myself. The next time somebody calls me, I'm going to use my own 5 second rule and I'm going to stop myself from just saying yes.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah.

[Mel Robbins]

And so. And then I'm going to say, I think I'm available. What's your budget? And that's gonna give me a clue as to like, what the money is. Cause also keep in mind I still have liens on my house.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah.

[Mel Robbins]

I am still like hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt. My husband is now in 2013, leaving the restaurant business. He is a shell of himself. He believes he has failed as a father, that he has failed to provide, that he has lost people's money. And so I'm also like, in like kind of resentful bitch syndrome. You know, literally, like, can't rely on, like, it's up to me. It's up to me. And everybody's felt that again, you forget who you married. You forget that they were doing the best that they can. They were trying. And you get to choose. Are you going to show up in a way that actually lifts somebody up so that they can do their best, or are you gonna be part of the fucking pylon? You get to choose.

[Bert Kreischer]

Jesus Christ.

[Mel Robbins]

And if you always assume good intent, you force yourself to take a step back and go, okay, like, this may not be working, but is the way I'm responding to this person helping or is it actually making it worse? Because then you're part of the problem. And I was majorly part of the problem. This was not on Chris. I was a full participant. And everything that happened, in terms of us losing the money, in terms of us making dumb decisions and then turning against each other, we were both full participants in it. Whether, you know, you might not be the person that lashes out like I am. Cause I, like, have the volcano anger. You might be the person that pulls back and then hides, but you still have the resentment inside you that's not getting expressed. And that shit does not disappear. It explodes in other ways.

[Bert Kreischer]

Oh, yeah.

[Mel Robbins]

And so I then was going to say, and this is what you say next, 551. They say what the budget is and you say, well, normally I'm double. And then you wait. Okay. So two weeks later, the phone rings. The phone rings and it's a guy named Darren and he's calling from Dallas, Texas. And he said, hey, my wife has seen this, you know, TEDx thing that you did. It's going viral on Facebook, and her company is doing a sales conference. And I've been in the speaking business for 20 years. And, you know, she asked me if I would just do her company a favor and call you up. And I said, great. Yeah, it sounds great. You know, what's the budget? He said, $10,000. I dropped the goddamn phone.

[Bert Kreischer]

531. I'm in.

[Mel Robbins]

Yes. I forgot the second part, but that was like three to four months of our mortgage. Yeah, that was more money than I could imagine.

[Bert Kreischer]

That's a lot.

[Mel Robbins]

And so I said yes. And then I felt so unworthy of that money that I hired a graphic designer and paid them $5,000 because I believed that I needed the presentation to look like $10,000. And it was the best thing I could have done because it forced me to prepare. And there are moments in your life where you have an at bat and when you step up to the plate, you want to fucking know it and you want to put in the work and you want to be able to swing for the fence. And I felt so unworthy of that money that I. And, you know, I was so scared of the state that, you know, Chris was struggling and we were not out of the woods that I destroyed it on that stage. And the guy, Darren was there, and he came up to me, he said, oh, my God, I've been in this business 20 years. You are by far the best female seeker I've ever seen in my entire life. Your top two of all time, maybe even top one. Who, like, runs your speaking business? And I said, you do. And to this day, Darren Powell runs my speaking business.

[Bert Kreischer]

Are you shitting me?

[Mel Robbins]

I am not shitting you. I am a person that is about people and loyalty. And you gotta pay attention to who is with you in the beginning. You gotta pay attention to who is there when it's not sexy. Like, lots of people want to be in your life. I call them the shiny people. They want to be in your life when things are going well, but you want to pay attention to and really value the people that were there in the dirt with you.

[Bert Kreischer]

Those rider dies.

[Mel Robbins]

Yes. And a lot of times, and they're all around you if you're willing to look for it. And I really. It's one of the things that I do respect a lot about myself is that a lot of people get a lot of success and then they forget that the people that were there in the beginning. They were also working for this success.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yes.

[Mel Robbins]

And so don't be that person that's like, well, now that I'm making a lot of money, you shouldn't have your 10%.

[Bert Kreischer]

Wow. Yeah.

[Mel Robbins]

And so I, within a year had been booked 47 times while I was working a full time job.

[Bert Kreischer]

That looks great.

[Mel Robbins]

The next year I did 97. Within three years, I was the most booked female speaker in the world. I said, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. So this goes back to your Netflix conversation. I would have, literally, I would have done anything to have paid off those bills because my highest value was safety and taking care of my family. And So I spent 150 days a year on the road. And it was not sexy shit. I'm talking like the bouncy regional coach flight, landing at an Airport at 11 o' clock at night, calling the cab, getting to the Marriott courtyard, like arriving at 12:30, taking my one outfit out and putting it in the shower and steaming it. Because I wanted to have a carry on. Because I couldn't afford to miss a flight. So I always had to have a carry on. So I wore the same thing all the time. And I would steam it in the shower in these hotels, and then I would go down to the end of the hallway and I'd be at a regional conference for realtors, you know, like doing the thing. And then I'd take a cab to the airport and I'd jump on another plane. And I did this year after year after year. That's how we paid off the liens on our house and it's how we got our savings back. And again, I was not the kind of person who was like, okay, now we got the money. Order the more expensive bottle of wine. I'm like, no, I get a dollar in. I know what it's like $0.50 in the bank. Like, we are not leveling up. We have got to restore order. And one of the interesting things that I realized is that it wasn't being on stage that lit me up. Because if you wanna be like what you do in your profession, being good at it is the price of entry. You have no fucking business doing anything. Like being on stage or doing what you do. If you're not good, don't waste people's time. What makes you exceptional at something is all the little things that actually do matter, all the things that you're not getting paid for. And that has to do with how people feel when they work with you. It has to do with how you show up. Do you manage Your energy. For me, the bar was not whether or not I got a standing ovation. The bar was whether or not when I got off stage, the guys and gals that were running production were like, that was fucking great. Thank you. I'm gonna take that video and send that to my father in law because he needs that stuff. Like his daughter's struggling with anxiety. I became so, like, energized by the conversations backstage by bumping into people in the grocery store. Because as things started to spread and I was super huge. Shout out to Gary Vee. One of these days we will get our schedules aligned and actually fucking meet. Because I'm like the female version of Gary Vee.

[Bert Kreischer]

Gary Vee's a fascinating.

[Mel Robbins]

I literally watched him, was like, oh, my God, why am I not filming all of the interactions with the people coming up to me, you know, the woman who sat us at our table and was like, thank you. That five, four, three, two, one thing helped my kid with anxiety. Thank you. Thank you for putting out these videos. I'm like, let's film this, because that's gonna help somebody. And so that is what ignited my passion for creating content that is free. I mean, I don't sell anything. It's a dumb business model. But I literally, like, what do I have a book? Like, I don't have a course to get. Like, I'm not. That's not my model. Like, I am so excited.

[Bert Kreischer]

Your podcast is free.

[Mel Robbins]

It's free.

[Bert Kreischer]

And by the way, it's fucking phenomenal.

[Mel Robbins]

Thank you.

[Bert Kreischer]

It's fucking phenomenal. You. My wife. My wife. As we were watching a video, my wife was pointing out certain episodes and she references it all the time.

[Mel Robbins]

Well, what's interesting is I have a very different philosophy about podcasting because the whole intention is to create something so that one human being who has no time. So I'm talking an emt, a nurse, a firefighter, a grandma that's watching the grandkids, his mom and dad are working somewhere halfway around the world that don't have the education system that you might have in your town, that somebody who has no time made time to spend it with me.

[Bert Kreischer]

Ooh, I have a very good friend. I have a very good friend who said that same thing one time on a podcast. And I remember him saying that, and it was like, when you went, oh, wow, maybe I should work a little harder at this.

[Mel Robbins]

Well, you know, yes or no? It depends. Like, for me, I am on a mission to really help people see the possibilities of their lives and their relationships. And for Me, I'm so grateful that all this happened so late in life. Because when you have an experience where you almost blow up everything that matters to you, you do not forget what matters. And I have become more successful than I ever even imagined possible. What more do you need? Like, if I can save anybody the headaches, the heartaches that I've caused myself, that's why I do what I do. And we obsess over it, because if you're gonna give me your time, I wanna make sure that if you actually make the time to listen, because think about podcasting. It is almost the only medium out there these days that you can't casually bump into. There is a conscious moment where a human being hits play. They chose it. And so I start with that premise and then I reverse engineer everything. For example, we don't number our episodes because I don't want you to be forwarded an episode by somebody and they go, there's 353 episodes. Uh, oh yeah. We have no insider conversations because here's the other really amazing statistic that I love about our show. So if you look at, you know, globally, anywhere, depending upon whether it's a kind of time of year that people are listening to self. It's not even a show about self improvement, life, January, September, we'll have anywhere between 9 and 11 million people listen to the show every week around the world. But here's the amazing part. 50% of them have never listened to a single episode. Because people have not only listened, they've taken the time to share it with somebody because they think this episode could be the surrogate for the conversation I want to have with you or this doctor or this expert or your story is exactly what my brother needs to hear. And so knowing that it's an intergenerational, universal thing like that is incredible.

[Bert Kreischer]

Mel, I could sit and talk to you all day long.

[Mel Robbins]

Well, I want you to come to Boston. I'm inviting you.

[Bert Kreischer]

Everyone's telling me that we need to wrap, and I'm sure it's your biggest.

[Mel Robbins]

Well, my bladder is so full right now and I'm not wearing a Depends, so I can't just. Have you ever done that on a cross country road trip? Like peed into a kid's diaper?

[Bert Kreischer]

Nah, I peed in my pants.

[Mel Robbins]

Though I bet there are a lot of women listening that know what I'm talking about.

[Bert Kreischer]

You are very special and I'm so lucky to have met you. And I'm so lucky that you, that you, that you put out as Much content as you do, just to help people. And everyone should go get both of her books.

[Mel Robbins]

You just learned about it here. You don't have to buy the book. Buy the book for your family.

[Bert Kreischer]

Buy the book for your family, like my wife did for me. And then she bought the audiobook and said, I feel like you didn't read it. I want you to listen to the audiobook. And she's like, by the way, this is something we can listen to. You can play it when you sleep. Can I listen to podcasts when I go to bed, too? And I woke up to you crying in your thank yous. And you were thanking your daughter, who was very pivotal in this.

[Mel Robbins]

She wrote it with me.

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah.

[Mel Robbins]

That's how I know it works. Because you have somebody in your life that you have a lot of friction with. And my oldest daughter, Sawyer. God, we wanted to be close, but there's just this, like, what's the mismatch here?

[Bert Kreischer]

Yeah.

[Mel Robbins]

And it's too long of a story to say how she came to write this with me. Cause the one thing she knew she wanted in life was to never work with me.

[Bert Kreischer]

And then as both of my daughters.

[Mel Robbins]

Yeah, well, you know, I actually think that's a cool thing for now because it means they want to make it on their own, which is a great thing. So good job, you guys. Mom and dad. But they come around. And so she found herself in a situation where she needed money and I needed some research help. And she's like an Excel spreadsheet on legs, and I'm like mice in a cardboard box that you tip over. And so we sat down and started working on this just as a research project. And once we started, we were in. We fought all day long. Once a day, I'd be. She'd be like, watch your tone. I'd be like, you know what? You watch your tone. And then I would go out of there, and then we'd be in separate corners. Let her. Let her. Let. Fucking bitch. Let her. Let her. Then you're like, right, let me be the bigger one. Go heal my relationship. And then you come back together. And the process of writing it together, we used it all day long with each other. And it taught us how to actually stop judging and being so pissed off at each other and create this space where we could allow one another the grace to have emotions, to be disappointed, to have a bad day and not take it personally and not feel like you need to fix it. Just let them.

[Bert Kreischer]

Just let them. And by the way, if you and Chris are in la. I have to take you to dinner. I would love.

[Mel Robbins]

Oh, we have to go out.

[Bert Kreischer]

I would love steak.

[Mel Robbins]

Bourbon. Let's go. No, we're going. No, absolutely.

[Bert Kreischer]

By the way, I'll fly. Leon. And I'll fly to Vermont.

[Mel Robbins]

Come. Oh, my God. Yes, please.

[Bert Kreischer]

The best.

[Mel Robbins]

You're the best.

[Bert Kreischer]

Ladies and gentlemen, Mel Robbins.

[Mel Robbins]

Oh, I love you. I love you. And I love you, Leanne.

[Bert Kreischer]

I feel like I have a sister.

[Mel Robbins]

You do?

[Bert Kreischer]

I do. I do.

[Mel Robbins]

But not you do. You do.

[Bert Kreischer]

Burt and Tom.

[Mel Robbins]

Tom and Bert.

[Bert Kreischer]

One goes topless while the other wears a shirt.

[Mel Robbins]

Tom tells stories and Bert's the machine. There's not a chance in him that.

[Bert Kreischer]

They'Ll keep it clean. Here's what we call two bears, one cave.