20/20 After Show: You Left Me for Dead

Summary

Summary of "20/20 After Show: You Left Me for Dead"

Podcast Information:

• Title: 20/20
• Host/Author: ABC News
• Episode: 20/20 After Show: You Left Me for Dead
• Release Date: March 17, 2025

---

Introduction

In the premiere episode of the "20/20 After Show," host Debra Roberts welcomes listeners to an exclusive behind-the-scenes look at ABC News' flagship program. This episode delves deep into the gripping true crime story featured in "You Left Me for Dead," exploring the intricate investigation, personal interviews, and the profound impact on the small Montana community.

Case Overview: A Tragic Night in Belgrade

The episode centers around a harrowing double homicide that took place in Belgrade, Montana, near Bozeman. On a quiet evening, two women—Lauren DeWise and Ashley Vanheimer—were brutally attacked in their home. Lauren tragically lost her life, while Ashley miraculously survived despite severe injuries.

Debra Roberts provides a concise recap:

"You Left Me for Dead is a story of absolute horror and homicide in a small town near Bozeman, Montana. Two women are at home and this is a nightmare for any of us thinking about being at home on a quiet night when an intruder breaks in and shoots them."
[01:44]

The Investigation: Unraveling the Mystery

Initial Clues and Delay

John Quinones, ABC News correspondent and host of "You Left Me for Dead," discusses the complexities of the case:

"It's such a baffling case. You know, initially it was reported as a double homicide. And that sort of crime doesn't happen in a town like Belgrade, Montana."
[03:21]

The investigation, initially started five years prior, faced delays due to the pandemic. However, this pause ultimately benefited the case by allowing the community and key witnesses, particularly Ashley Vanheimer, the survivor, to become more open to sharing their experiences.

Ashley Vanheimer’s Resilience

Ashley Vanheimer's extraordinary strength and forgiveness stand out in the narrative. Despite being shot in the head and suffering significant brain injuries, she expresses remarkable forgiveness towards her attacker, Paul DeWise.

During an interview, Ashley states:

"Joe, we've gotta be honest with you."
[02:53]
"He was protecting his father."
[03:07]

Her ability to forgive is further highlighted when Lauren DeWise, her roommate and victim, shares her feelings:

"I have never felt anger at him. It's just the more of like, how could you do this to... the mom of your own daughter, a woman I love."
[05:40]

Discovery of the Murder Weapon

A pivotal moment in the investigation was the discovery of the murder weapon by Andrea Larson while ice fishing at Cattail Lake.

John Quinones recounts:

"She noticed this gun sitting on top of the ice, and it's covered with a little snow, and that's where it was found."
[10:14]

Andrea initially thought little of finding the gun, considering the prevalence of firearms in Montana. However, upon learning about the murders, she turned in the weapon, a breakthrough that significantly advanced the case.

Dedicated Law Enforcement

The relentless efforts of Detectives Jeremy Kopp of the Gallatin County Sheriff's Office and Dustin Lensing of the Belgrade Police Department were instrumental in solving the case. Their methodical approach included:

• Analyzing Boot Prints:

  "They found the exact kind of boot by searching the shoe aisles for the same kind of boots that these prints belong to."
  [14:01]

• Interviewing Suspects and Witnesses: Their thorough interviews and attention to detail led them to focus on Paul DeWise and his teenage son, Joe.

An extended clip from their interview reveals the personal sacrifices made by the detectives:

"It was a seven day a week affair for a long time. It was a mission."
Jeremy Kopp
[15:15]

The Perpetrator: Paul DeWise and His Family

Paul DeWise, the estranged and abusive husband of Lauren DeWise, emerges as the primary suspect. His inability to accept his wife's departure led to the tragic events.

Involvement of His Teen Son

In an unsettling twist, Paul involved his 15-year-old son, Joe, in the crime. Joe initially attempted to protect his father by lying to the investigators, exacerbating the complexity of the case.

John Quinones explains:

"He was trying desperately to protect his dad. And then they started finding evidence that pointed toward the young boy being at the crime scene."
[19:21]

Through compassionate interrogation techniques, including bringing in Joe's biological mother, the detectives were able to elicit a confession from Joe, who ultimately testified against his father. Joe's involvement underscores the profound psychological impact abusive relationships can have on families.

Community Impact: Shattered Peace

Belgrade, Montana, known for its peacefulness, was deeply shaken by the murders. The incident shattered the community's sense of safety, leading residents to become more vigilant.

John Quinones reflects:

"Now everyone's on guard. People have started locking their doors because they realize you just never know things can happen."
[25:56]

The community's collective trauma is palpable, highlighting that even the most serene environments are not immune to violence.

Reflections and Lessons Learned

Both Debra Roberts and John Quinones emphasize the broader implications of the case, particularly concerning domestic violence. Lauren DeWise's struggle and ultimate escape from an abusive relationship serve as a poignant reminder of the dangers such situations pose.

Lauren DeWise's final words encapsulate a crucial message:

"If you are in a bad situation, don't move somewhere where your offender can find you. Go anywhere to save your life."
[24:09]

Her strength and resilience have left a lasting impression on both the investigators and the community, serving as an inspiration for others facing similar circumstances.

Conclusion

The "20/20 After Show: You Left Me for Dead" offers an in-depth exploration of a tragic true crime case, highlighting the unwavering dedication of law enforcement, the resilience of survivors, and the profound impact on a close-knit community. Through engaging interviews, pivotal moments, and heartfelt reflections, the episode underscores the complexities of domestic abuse and the enduring human spirit in the face of unimaginable adversity.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Ashley Vanheimer: "Joe, we've gotta be honest with you."
  [02:53]

• Lauren DeWise: "I have never felt anger at him. It's just the more of like, how could you do this to... the mom of your own daughter, a woman I love."
  [05:40]

• John Quinones: "They found the exact kind of boot by searching the shoe aisles for the same kind of boots that these prints belong to."
  [14:01]

• Jeremy Kopp: "It was a mission."
  [15:15]

• Lauren DeWise: "If you are in a bad situation, don't move somewhere where your offender can find you. Go anywhere to save your life."
  [24:09]

---

This comprehensive summary encapsulates the key elements, discussions, and emotional depths covered in the "20/20 After Show: You Left Me for Dead," providing listeners with a thorough understanding of the episode's content.

Transcript

[John Quinones]

This episode is brought to you by Universal Pictures. From Universal Pictures in Blumhouse come a storm of terror. From the director of the shallows, the Woman in the Yard. Don't let her in. Where does she come from? What does she want? When will she leave? Today's the day. The Woman in the Yard Only in theaters March 28th.

[Debra Roberts]

Hey there 2020 listeners. It's Debra Roberts here and I want to welcome you to our very first 2020 after show. There are so many things that happen behind the scenes when we're out reporting. Surprising twists, incredible moments that we, our producers and our correspondents experience. So we decided to share the best stories. Every Monday, the 2020 After show will take you behind the scenes of our most recent program and we will also play exclusive audio that you won't hear on Friday show. As you know, we've been bringing hard hitting investigative reporting for nearly five decades. I wasn't here all five decades, let me tell you. I've only here been here for a couple of them. This whole team and I are so excited to bring this show to you. Pulling back the curtain, if you will, on the program that you all know and love. And so for our first episode, I have the pleasure of welcoming my friend and colleague, ABC News correspondent John Quinones.

[John Quinones]

Hi Deb, it's good to be with you.

[Debra Roberts]

Good to have you. We call you Q around here, so I hope you don't mind.

[John Quinones]

John, congratulations on anchoring the show. I just love having you at the helm with David, of course, of 2020.

[Debra Roberts]

It's a delight and to see you on the program regularly. Now, John, your show, you Left Me for Dead. I'm gonna give a little recap here because it's really interesting and you know, lots of little twists and a warning to all of you. There may be spoilers if you haven't heard the show and you can find the episode, of course, right next to this one in your feed. You Left Me for Dead is a story of absolute horror and homicide in a small town near Bozeman, Montana. Two women are at home and this is a nightmare for any of us thinking about being at home on a quiet night when an intruder breaks in and shoots them. Lauren dewise dies and Ashley Vanheimer miraculously survives. What follows is a dogged investigation by a pair of local police officers. Telltale boot prints in the snow. An ice fisher who actually finds evidence. The search leads to Paul dewise, Lauren's estranged husband. If you follow our shows, you know that wouldn't be a big surprise. But how it all happens is and his 15 year old son, Joe, his son from his first marriage. So here's a clip from the show from Joe's interrogation.

[Ashley Vanheimer]

Joe, we've gotta be honest with you.

[Debra Roberts]

I am completely honest with you.

[Ashley Vanheimer]

How, how did your boots, those same prints end up at the crime scene?

[Paul DeWise]

Joe, be truthful. I'm being truthful.

[John Quinones]

He was protecting his father.

[Paul DeWise]

It was.

[Debra Roberts]

Now this poor kid is a teenager. John, there are so many elements to this story. I just. What was it about this one initially that you really felt so compelled to jump into?

[John Quinones]

It's such a, such a baffling case. You know, initially it was reported as a double homicide. And that sort of crime doesn't happen in a town like Belgrade, Montana. We actually headed out to do this story five years ago, and then the pandemic happened and we put everything on hold.

[Debra Roberts]

Well, that's what I wanted to ask you because it was a long time in the making. How did that change the reporting, though? Because when you wait five years, other things happen. People change their minds. Stories sort of change, maybe.

[John Quinones]

No, Deb. You know, actually it helped us because so often when we murder, like this happens or tragedy, the media descends on the town and folks close to that crime really don't want to talk about it much. Five years later, we were able, the community was ready then to talk to us. And more importantly, one of the crucial witnesses, one of the victims, Ashley Van Hamert, was willing to talk to us and ready to talk to us. So it really helped us. That delay.

[Debra Roberts]

Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes people close up, sometimes people are ready to talk right away. But the idea this woman survives this tragic shooting, loses her friend. And why do you think? I mean, obviously she had healed a little bit from her wounds, I guess, but psychologically, I mean, why did she feel ready to process and talk about it on camera?

[John Quinones]

Because of everything she had been through. We spoke to her and her mother and her family for more than two hours, and then we spent all day with them. It was just beautiful the way she was ready to open up. And what really struck me was that she's so forgiving after everything, everything she went through. She was shot in the head, lost part of her brain and skull. She can hardly use the left side of her body, and yet she is ready to forgive this man. And she was telling me that the one thing that she cannot stop thinking about is the dead woman's daughter, Lauren, her roommate's daughter. A lot of people would have felt great anger toward this man.

[Lauren DeWise]

Yeah, no, I've actually still to this day, I've never felt anger at him. It's just the more of like, how could you do this to. Not even to me, but like the mom of your own daughter, a woman.

[John Quinones]

You profess to love.

[Lauren DeWise]

Yes. Yes. How could you leave her without a mom? And at that time, I was hoping, you know, you'll be in prison for the rest of your life for, you know, what you've done, and that she wouldn't have a dad either anymore.

[Debra Roberts]

Gosh, just so heartbreaking.

[John Quinones]

You know what else she tells me in the interview? She says that she actually prays for Paul dewise, this man who tried to kill her and killed her roommate. That's what also struck us. Her faith is so amazing. Her resilience, her strength, her willingness to forgive this killer. She's an amazing woman. Despite the horrific injury that I said she suffered to the brain, she now is recovering well.

[Debra Roberts]

That's what I wanted to ask you. Yeah. How is she doing after all of that?

[John Quinones]

She lives by herself now. She has a job and she's back to doing the things she loves, and that's being outdoors in the mountains. She's a snowboarder, and she's beginning to do a little bit of that. And of course, hiking, always with her beloved dog Bronson by her side.

[Debra Roberts]

Well, if you're in Montana, of course, you probably do love the outdoors. It always strikes me when you interview and when we all go out there and we talk to these people who have gone such an ordeal. Did she talk a lot about Lauren and just having had that loss?

[John Quinones]

She thinks about her all the time. You know, they had just moved in together. But Lauren at one point said, this is the safest I've ever felt living here. She was so glad to be away from this husband who, it turns out, had been abusing her. She had started to open up, but not a lot to Ashley. So tragic that it happened before she had a chance to. To tell them what was going on. But one of the roommates certainly believed that this was serious enough to lock the doors. You know, she was a woman who she says had not locked her doors as long as she had lived there. But after she heard about Paul deweis, she started making sure that the door was locked and that they were better protected.

[Debra Roberts]

And this is the small town where nobody thinks anything happens there, you know, just doesn't happen in our community. And of course, it did happen there. Well, we're going to take a break, but after the break, we're going to hear about the surprising place that the murder weapon turned up. And something John, you did out in the field, you shared with me a little bit later, okay?

[John Quinones]

Yeah.

[Debra Roberts]

Okay. So stay tuned. We'll be right back.

[John Quinones]

Yes.

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[Debra Roberts]

Okay, John, we are back now and I want to talk about not only just this crime and how it happened, but you know, one of the things that's always intriguing is how police crack these cases. That's why our viewers and our listeners actually find these cases so interesting. How they found it. Now, the murder weapon in this case, these women had been shot. They didn't find it right away, but they eventually you met the folks who found the murder weapon and it was an intriguing way. Tell us a little bit about that in this cold part of the country.

[John Quinones]

In a very Montana way as we like to say that they find this. This woman was ice fishing at a place called Cattail Lake in Bozeman, Montana.

[Debra Roberts]

Andrea Larson.

[John Quinones]

Yes. And she's out there with her dog and her husband. And it's a frozen pond, of course. And I gotta tell you, I was a little nervous heading out onto that pond, but we had a chart that showed that a car could drive over this frozen lake and wouldn't fall through.

[Debra Roberts]

Did your producer, Joe Diaz, have to convince you to go out there?

[John Quinones]

I wanted to give Joe a rope so that in case I went down, he would pull me out. But I learned how to ice fish with this woman. She was out there, and she notices this gun sitting on top of the ice, and it's covered with a little snow, and that's where it was found. She thought nothing of it. She picks it up, and she kept it for a couple of weeks. She hadn't heard of the murder.

[Debra Roberts]

Why would she think nothing of it? To find a gun on the gun?

[John Quinones]

It's Montana, Deb. Everyone has a gun.

[Debra Roberts]

People hunt. You're right. You're right.

[John Quinones]

And they hunt a lot. So she didn't think much of it until she reads up online about this murder that had happened and the attempted murder of this other woman and how police were looking for the weapon, and she turned it in. And immediately, as we like to say in the story, as quick as you can say, exhibit A, the cops were at her door, ready.

[Debra Roberts]

That's a classic John Quinones line. And that turned out to be the murder weapons.

[John Quinones]

Yes. Yes.

[Debra Roberts]

John, what about just going out there? Because I think what listeners might find interesting is, you know, many times we go out there on either the lake or, in my case, sometimes in wooded areas in some kind of a swamp or whatever with the police to find out you had never been ice fishing before. You're out there with her, having her tell the story. Give us a little bit of a sense behind the scenes. When you're doing that interview with her, are you nervous about falling through while you're doing it, or were you perfectly comfortable? And did you just do the interview without thinking about it?

[John Quinones]

Well, prior to this, I had done a story in North Dakota where it was very cold, and I got frostbitt in my ear because it was so darn cold. So going into Montana in the dead of winter, and it was a little warmer than January's usually are in Montana, thank God. But, you know, you go. You pack all the jackets and coats you can bring along. I bought some. Some. Some boots that are specifically made to ice fish. You just. It's always really interesting to see how other Folks live and what's normal for them. You know, I grew up in San Antonio, Texas. I had never been ice fishing in my life. So it's interesting. And just the goodness in people, people like Andrea who just go out there and do something that is just part of their daily lives. And I learned how to ice fish and how to put the hook and the line down on the water and then wait and wait and wait.

[Debra Roberts]

Did you catch anything? No, no, of course not.

[John Quinones]

Not at all.

[Debra Roberts]

But, you know, I'm always struck by the fact that people are willing to take us out into their lives and to do these kinds of things. And you specifically probably wanted to be out there on the ice with her because that's. That factored into the story.

[John Quinones]

That's why we're reporters. You know, we're out there. We just want to learn more about the world and life. And this was an integral part of the investigation, what she found. And she eventually, of course, did turn it in. And that was a big break in the case.

[Debra Roberts]

I am always struck by the police officers in these stories, and they are just the unsung heroes many times, particularly in small towns where maybe they don't necessarily always have the experience of investigating big murders. Maybe they don't happen there. And so in this particular case, a big part of the story was that dogged detective work that was done by Jeremy Kopp of the Gallatin County Sheriff's Office you mentioned and Dustin Lensing of the Belgrade Police Department. What about the two of them in trying to put this together, and I'm guessing this is probably maybe the biggest case they had had to try to solve.

[John Quinones]

They were so sharp in their investigation for small town cops, when they found boot prints, for example, in the snow, they lightly spray, spray painted the boot print with red paint to get the imprint to print a kind of, yeah, 3D model of the prints. And then they went to Walmart where they searched the shoe aisles for the same kind of boots that these prints belong to. And they found the exact kind of boot. And then they gently and methodically interviewed the characters in this case. It happened on a Sunday morning. They weren't even working. And then they worked seven days a week, really a master class on how to conduct these investigations taught to us by two small town cops.

[Debra Roberts]

Yeah, and they know to go to family right away to look at the family members. And certainly when they learn that somebody has been in the throes of a divorce, as Lauren had, so obviously they kind of knew where to swoop. In this case, you Talk about in the piece had a big impact on these two officers. And it happens all the time. I've noticed that too when I've been out interviewing small town cops. Here's an extended clip from the interview with Jeremy Kopp and Dustin Langsing that gets at that. Let's take a listen.

[Jeremy Kopp]

It became one of those things where you lived and breathed it. Right. I had a three month old baby at home when this happened and before I knew it, he was six months old. It was three months of I would come home in the middle of the night, I would peek in on him, make sure he was okay. I go to bed, I get up before dawn, go back to the office, get to work, meet Jeremy. We'd have coffee and get started on the day. And that was a seven day a week affair for a long time. You know, three months into it and now my kid is six months old and I don't even know what happened there. All the circumstances involved and all of the tragedy involved and. And it wasn't work, it was a mission. Yeah, it was a mission.

[John Quinones]

Yeah. That's the police chief, Dustin Lensing, and he's telling us how he just became a father. Right. And yet now he's working seven days a week, hardly sees his infant child. And it wasn't just the officers, it was the entire community of Belgrade that felt the impact of these crimes. It was rare for them to see any kind of violent crime in this town, as we mentioned, much less an attempted double murder.

[Debra Roberts]

Yeah, something like this, you know, just hearing those guys and I've heard it so often when I've interviewed officers, you know, we think that they just go out and they just do their job and we see them, these visions of them, you know, in our pieces. But these are real people and particularly in communities like this and they take this stuff to heart. And I've had officers tear up when talking about this and I'm. And then you can hear the emotion in their voices.

[John Quinones]

They did in this story too. They were truly dedicated to getting answers to this horrific crime. And it wasn't just them, you know, the entire community, as I said, everyone was appalled by what this man, Paul De Wise, when they started learning the details of the killer, what he did and then how he made his 15 year old son Joe come with him on the night of the shootings. And then he tried to help get his son, his own son, to help him cover up the crime by lying to the authorities.

[Debra Roberts]

Before we even get to that, because I wanted. You've touched on so much. John, you're the classic reporter, you get it all in there. But I want to talk about Paul dewise first because, I mean, not only did he kill his wife and try to kill Ashley, he shot her, but he involved his teen children. It's unfathomable.

[John Quinones]

He was a man that just couldn't stand to see his wife leave him. And as turbulent as their marriage was, when she finally said I need to get away, and she hung in there for a long time, but when she finally did, he couldn't, he couldn't take it.

[Debra Roberts]

And he was abusive.

[John Quinones]

Certainly that's the allegation is that he had been very abusive to her and she, you know, she had taken pictures of herself with bruises on her arms and neck and it was pretty clear that she was desperate to get out of there and she needed to get away and he couldn't stand that, so he came after her.

[Debra Roberts]

They had a little child together, a four year old, but he had teen children from a previous marriage. And the idea, I mean, this is the thing that gets me about this story. I mean we hear you and I cover so many of these stories where there are couples that are at odds and certainly very viciously at odds, but to involve teen children. So he takes his son that night with him. Tell us about that.

[John Quinones]

Well, when they started questioning him right away, of course the first suspect is of course the estranged spouse or the boyfriend. And sure enough, he had an alibi. He said, I was home with my kids and I stayed home until midnight when we went out to buy a six pack of beer. And he stuck to that story. So then the investigators started interviewing the kids who were with him and they stood by his alibi. They kept lying for their father.

[Debra Roberts]

And could they tell that the kids weren't being truthful?

[John Quinones]

Yeah, yeah. I think these very smart investigators started noticing that there were little cracks in the story. And it seemed like especially Joe, this 15 year old boy was trying desperately to protect his dad. And then they started finding evidence that kind of pointed toward to the young boy being at the crime scene.

[Debra Roberts]

The boots, the shoe prints.

[John Quinones]

Yeah.

[Debra Roberts]

And that connected him because he had those boots. So the boy starts to crack, but he's trying to protect. That's his stepmother, Lauren is his stepmother and Paul is his father. This poor kid. Yeah, that's a lot for a 50 year old.

[John Quinones]

He was scared. But he ultimately confessed and told the police. Finally after breaking down, they brought in his biological mother from Florida and she pleaded with him to tell the truth. To tell the truth. But of course the interrogators also were very gentle in prodding him and getting close to him physically. You know how you start interviewing somebody and you have some distance? Well in this case the officer got really close to him and the closer he got and he held his hands and he said look I need you Joe to be honest with him. And his mother is now there pleading with him also to tell the truth. And he ultimately confessed. He really is one of the quiet heroes in this story. Police tell me that when they had this young boy in the interrogation room it was one of the heaviest conversations they've ever had with anyone. It was emotionally heavy to be with this young boy carrying all that weight on his shoulders trying to protect his father until he finally let it all out to the cops. And it was just incredible to see the undersherif Jeremy cops interactions. He was sweet and he was tender and he was understanding and very likely this was something that Joe by the way never got from his own father Paul deweiss but he got it from this cop. He never got it from his father because he was fearful of his father. He thought Paul dewise was going to kill him and his sister Natalie. So they were doing everything the father insisted on them doing. He wound up forcing him to come along.

[Debra Roberts]

So he's threatened and he feels he has no choice.

[John Quinones]

Yeah, because he would be harmed himself. In the end neither Joe nor his sister Natalie faced any charges.

[Debra Roberts]

He is a 15 year old. So they didn't face charges.

[John Quinones]

No. And he came clean ultimately and testified against his father. Yeah, and that was, that was amazing. He's now doing very well, Joe. We, we hear that he's working on rebuilding his life. They're hopeful, the cops are and the community is that this resilient young boy is going to wind up doing good things in his life.

[Paul DeWise]

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[Debra Roberts]

By her estranged husband. Of course the whole notion that she was living this life of abuse. Do people know this?

[John Quinones]

Yeah, that was one of the Toughest things that you find out in shooting, filming this story. The most difficult part of the story was learning that Lauren had allegedly been experiencing domestic abuse for quite a while while she lived with Paul deweis. Her murder came only after she had finally, of course, separated from him, which happens so often. As I mentioned, there's pictures of her with bruises on the night she was murdered. She had even said, according to her roommate, Audrea Butler, I feel safer here than I've ever felt. And we both know that abusive relationships are just horrific and that leaving a physically abusive relationship is a major risk factor for homicide or for non fatal violence.

[Debra Roberts]

Yeah, we've seen that. You and I have seen that in stories we've covered. Can you. Did you get a sense of what she endured in the marriage?

[John Quinones]

Yeah, at one point. Point Paul tells investigators, well, no, I wasn't physically abusive, but I did punch her in the arm 10 times. 10 times. But I never would have killed her.

[Debra Roberts]

He said, well, she clearly had fled and was trying to find safety. You asked Ashley actually about this. Let's listen to a clip.

[John Quinones]

You know the consequences of domestic violence all too well. What do you want people to take away from this?

[Lauren DeWise]

I want people to take away from this that if you are. I know this is easier said than done, but if Lauren would have known what was going to happen to her, she would have taken her daughter and just left. Gone anywhere if she knew she was going to die. So if you are in a bad situation, don't move somewhere where your offender can find you. Can find you. Exactly. Yes. Go anywhere to save your life.

[Debra Roberts]

And if you have kids, lives, such important advice.

[John Quinones]

I love her. She's the hero. I mean, after everything she went through, she was so strong in the way she came up.

[Debra Roberts]

We talk about the four year old right now being raised by relatives.

[John Quinones]

Yeah. Maternal grandmother, she's being raised by them. And the other two kids, Joe and Natalie, are with their mom.

[Debra Roberts]

And what kind of an impact, John, you and I both, when we go to these communities sometimes can really kind of get the feel, especially after you've talked to so many different people in a community, you get a feel for what a crime like this has done to a community. This was one that was known to be, I guess, peaceful and beautiful and then they're shattered with this kind of horrific situation. What kind of impact did this have on that community? And even all these years later, it'll.

[John Quinones]

Never be the same. I mean, you finally realize it can happen anywhere. It can happen anywhere. And you hear, as we say, we say that all the time, but even in this bucolic, gorgeous little mountain town with the Rockies, it happened there and it hadn't happened in decades. There had been a murder in the small town. But I think now everyone's on guard. People have started locking their doors because they realize you just never know things can happen.

[Debra Roberts]

But also, too, that powerful lesson about domestic abuse and that people actually can take away from that. We talk about the National Domestic Violence Hotline, 1-800-799-SAFE so people can actually call because there is something that you can take away from the story, too, aside from the innocence that was shattered, but an awakening, too, about domestic violence and how tragically it can actually affect us all. Well, John, you know, you and I cover so many of these stories, and oftentimes we go to, you know, corners of the country, corners of the world. Sometimes in your case, did you take away. Sometimes I take away a feeling from a story. After I've done something, I take away a feeling from the people or I did a story once in Florida, and these two women police officers were just such tough, amazing women. And I sort of went away thinking about how they were so devoted and dedicated. Did you take a feeling away from that? This particular one?

[John Quinones]

Yeah. Just how human these officers were that worked on the case. You would think that these guys handle these cases every day and they become sort of numb to the horror that we witness. And yet these people took it to heart and lived, lived that story for years to get to the killer and to get a conviction, which in the end they did. So those two guys were amazing heroes. And Lansing and Kopp, and of course, Ashley. The strength and the resilience and the power that she has now despite everything she went through, boy, what a lesson for all of us.

[Debra Roberts]

The human spirit, yeah, triumphs. Well, John Quinones, how great to have you on our inaugural behind the scenes broadcast.

[John Quinones]

This is the premiere. I love it.

[Debra Roberts]

This is it. This is it. Well, you know, you and I have been at this a long time, and it's great to finally sit down and get a chance to chat.

[John Quinones]

Thank you. We'll do more.

[Debra Roberts]

We definitely will. Thank you so much for coming in and doing this. Well, that's our program for today. John, I can't thank you enough for being here. The 2020 After show will be back in your feed next Monday with more analysis and behind the scenes stories from 2020 BTs. As they say these days, behind the scenes. Tune in on Friday nights, Of course, at 9:00 for all new episodes. Of 2020 on ABC. And I should also point out that our show is produced by Sasha Aslanian and Cameron Chertavian. Special thanks to Joe Diaz and Brian Mazurski of 2020. Laura Mayer is the Executive producer of ABC Audio.

[Paul DeWise]

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