Bad Rap: USA v. Sean Combs

Summary

20/20 Podcast Episode Summary: "Bad Rap: USA v. Sean Combs"

Release Date: April 30, 2025
Host/Author: ABC News
Podcast Series: Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
Episode: USA v. Sean Combs

---

1. Introduction

In this gripping episode of Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy, ABC News delves deep into the high-stakes criminal trial of Sean "Diddy" Combs. Hosted by Brian Buckmire, the episode features insightful discussions with ABC News Chief Investigative Correspondent Aaron Katerski and explores the multifaceted legal battle surrounding the mogul.

2. Overview of the Case Against Sean Combs

Charges and Indictment:

Sean Combs faces a formidable array of charges under the indictment titled USA v. Sean Combs, AKA Puff Daddy, AKA P. Diddy, AKA Diddy, AKA PD, AKA Love. The allegations span over two decades, accusing Combs of orchestrating a criminal enterprise involved in:

• Sex Trafficking: Forcing individuals into sex acts through coercion, fraud, or force.
• Racketeering Conspiracy: Operating as a criminal entity akin to organized crime families.
• Transportation to Engage in Prostitution: Moving victims across state lines to facilitate prostitution.
• Additional Charges: Including bribery, forced labor, kidnapping, arson, and obstruction of justice.

Aaron Katerski emphasizes the gravity of these charges, noting that a conviction could result in Combs spending the rest of his life in prison.

3. Courtroom Observations

Diddy's Demeanor and Family Presence:

Aaron Katerski recounts his first encounter with Sean Combs in court:

“[00:47] Aaron Katerski: The first time I saw Sean Combs enter court after he was charged, I remember doing a little bit of a double take. Sean Combs sitting right there. I mean, he looked right at me.”

Katerski observes Combs' varying appearances and moods in court hearings, highlighting moments where he seemed genuinely surprised or jovial. Notably, Combs was often accompanied by his children and sister, a presence that garnered attention:

“[02:01] Aaron Katerski: Several of his children and his sister were there watching as he pleaded not guilty.”

Prosecutor's Table:

A significant visual element is the all-female prosecutor's table:

“[02:54] Aaron Katerski: The prosecutor's table is all women who are bringing a case against an accused sexual abuser. And I think that's another powerful image that the jury may well notice, too.”

4. Influence of Civil Lawsuits

Cassie Ventura's Pivotal Lawsuit:

The criminal case against Combs is significantly influenced by numerous civil lawsuits, particularly the high-profile case brought by his ex-girlfriend, Cassie Ventura. Initially settled without admission of guilt, Ventura's lawsuit has drawn the attention of federal prosecutors:

“[05:58] Aaron Katerski: That’s the one that caught the eye of federal prosecutors.”

5. Simplifying the Case: "Freak Offs"

When asked to distill the case into a simple term, Katerski highlights:

“[07:24] Aaron Katerski: Freak offs.”

This term encapsulates the central allegations, varying in interpretation between the prosecution and the defense. The prosecution views these incidents as coerced sex parties, while the defense frames them as consensual, albeit controversial, gatherings.

6. Detailed Charges and Legal Implications

Racketeering Conspiracy:

Under the RICO (Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations) statute, Combs is accused of orchestrating a criminal enterprise. Katerski explains:

“[09:56] Aaron Katerski: Just the idea that he's charged with racketeering conspiracy means federal prosecutors are treating him like a mob family.”

Sex Trafficking Defined:

Sex trafficking involves compelling individuals into sex acts without their consent. This federal charge applies when victims are transported across state lines:

“[10:29] Brian Buckmire: Sex trafficking is making a person engage in sex acts they don't consent to through force, fraud, or coercion.”

Additional Allegations:

Prosecutors have also alleged:

• Kidnapping and Arson: Notably, an incident resembling the explosion of rapper Kid Cudi's car, which Combs' defense denies involvement in.
• Bribery and Obstruction of Justice: Highlighting the lengths to which Combs allegedly went to maintain control over his operations and victims.

7. Evidence and Witnesses

Video Evidence:

A crucial piece of evidence is hotel surveillance footage showing an assault on Cassie Ventura:

“[14:54] Aaron Katerski: [...] Cassie Ventura is the star witness. Right? Because there she is on video being punched and kicked and dragged in the hallway of a hotel in Los Angeles by Sean Combs.”

The defense has sought to exclude this video, alleging manipulation:

“[15:43] Brian Buckmire: [...] Cassie Ventura, despite what you see in the video, was actually enjoying herself in the company of Sean Combs and male prostitutes and these sex performances called freak offs.”

However, the judge ruled in favor of the prosecution, allowing the video to be presented during the trial.

Other Evidence:

Law enforcement raids on Combs' residences have yielded potential evidence, including:

• Electronic Devices: Access to phone records, photos, videos, and documents that may corroborate the prosecution's claims.
• Possible Audiovisual Recordings: Of private parties and interactions that could be incriminating.

8. Prosecutors' Strategy and Case Strength

Katerski expresses confidence in the prosecution's approach:

“[17:22] Aaron Katerski: They certainly feel they have what they need. [...] they think the video evidence and some of the other evidence [...] is going to be enough.”

Referencing the Southern District of New York's reputation for rigorous prosecutions, Katerski believes the case is robust:

“[17:22] Aaron Katerski: [...] the Southern District of New York does not bring a case that they don't think they can win.”

9. Defense Strategies and Challenges

Denial and Claiming Bias:

Combs' defense team has vehemently denied all charges, labeling the prosecution as unjust and racially motivated. They argue that Combs is an "imperfect person, but not a criminal" and reject the notion of a plea deal.

Potential Arguments:

Katerski speculates on possible defense strategies, including:

• Challenging Federal Jurisdiction: Arguing that the alleged crimes do not warrant federal charges and should be dismissed as state-level issues.
• Lack of Conspiracy Evidence: Addressing the RICO charge with only one defendant, undermining the conspiracy element.

“[25:20] David: [...] how do you have a RICO with only one defendant? [...] is there a RICO case with only one defendant?

“[26:38] Aaron Katerski: [...] they've gone for the bigger swing of this is a racist prosecution. [...] they haven't done a more nuanced defense at least yet.”

10. Trial Outlook and Key Considerations

Jury Selection and Trial Timeline:

Jury selection for Combs' trial is slated to begin on May 5th. The prosecution is expected to call multiple alleged victims, while the defense may choose to minimize Combs' personal testimony to avoid cross-examination pitfalls.

Possible Testimonies:

Cassie Ventura is anticipated to be a pivotal witness, with her testimony and supporting video evidence playing a crucial role in the prosecution's case.

11. Conclusion and Next Steps

As the trial approaches, Bad Rap: USA v. Sean Combs promises continued in-depth coverage, offering listeners comprehensive updates and expert analysis on every courtroom development. The episode underscores the complexity and high-profile nature of the case, setting the stage for a potentially landmark legal battle.

---

Notable Quotes:

• Aaron Katerski [00:47]: “The first time I saw Sean Combs enter court after he was charged, I remember doing a little bit of a double take. Sean Combs sitting right there. I mean, he looked right at me.”

• Aaron Katerski [02:54]: “The prosecutor's table is all women who are bringing a case against an accused sexual abuser. And I think that's another powerful image that the jury may well notice, too.”

• Aaron Katerski [07:24]: “Freak offs.”

• Brian Buckmire [10:29]: “Sex trafficking is making a person engage in sex acts they don't consent to through force, fraud, or coercion.”

• Aaron Katerski [17:22]: “They certainly feel they have what they need. And you well know an office like the Southern District of New York does not bring a case that they don't think they can win.”

---

This summary was crafted based on the transcript provided and adheres to the guidelines of excluding advertisements, intros, outros, and non-content sections to deliver a comprehensive overview of the podcast episode.

Transcript

[Debra Roberts]

Debra It's Debra Roberts here to bring you another weekly episode of Bad Rap, the Case Against Diddy. Remember, you can catch new episodes a day early if you follow Bad Rap the Case Against Diddy on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music or wherever you listen to podcasts. And now, here's our next episode. Nordstrom brings you the season's most wanted brands, Skims, Mango Free People and Princess polly, all under $100. From tre, from trending sneakers to beauty must haves, we've curated the styles you'll wear on repeat this spring. Free shipping, free returns and in store pickup make it easier than ever. Shop now in stores [e-mail].

[Aaron Katerski]

The first time I saw Sean Combs enter court after he was charged, I remember doing a little bit of a double take. Sean Combs sitting right there. I mean, he looked right at me.

[Brian Buckmire]

That's ABC News chief investigative correspondent Aaron Katerski. Aaron's been covering the courts in New York and other places for more than 25 years. He's reported on the trials of lots of high profile people, including defendants like Diddy who were charged with sex crimes. People like Harvey Weinstein and Ghislaine Maxwell.

[Aaron Katerski]

We have some access in some of the hearings of sitting in the jury box. So you're really just a railing away from the defendant in some cases. And right after his arrest, I didn't think he looked great.

[Brian Buckmire]

Aaron says Diddy looked stunned, like he was a little surprised at where he found himself. Cameras aren't typically allowed inside federal courtrooms, so the only way to see what's gone on at Diddy's hearings has been to go in person. Aaron's gone to nearly every hearing in Diddy's federal criminal case so far.

[Aaron Katerski]

I was there in the courtroom today, David, as Sean Combs entered in a black T shirt, gray sweatpants and sneakers. Several of his children and his sister were there watching as he pleaded not guilty. And then they saw him led out by the marshals after. Then I remember a different hearing. He walked in, he looked like he had lost weight. He looked like he was in a jovial mood, smiling at people in the courtroom. He clearly enjoys when his family comes to court. It is noticeable for a while his attorneys were pointing out who was who in the courtroom. So the judge had a sense of who was in the room. And the judge actually welcomed his family to court, which I had never really heard before. How he's going to be when he's on trial, there's no telling because what's coming is going to be fairly graphic and potentially damning.

[Brian Buckmire]

And Aaron says there's something else that struck him in these early hearings.

[Aaron Katerski]

There is one other optic, and that's who's at the other table. The prosecutor's table is all women who are bringing a case against an accused sexual abuser. And I think that's another powerful image that the jury may well notice, too.

[Brian Buckmire]

The allegations in the criminal case against Sean Diddy Combs span two decades of the mogul's life and career. The indictment lists all of the names he's gone by. It's called USA v. Sean Combs, AKA Puff Daddy, AKA P. Diddy, AKA Diddy, AKA pd, AKA Love. The case is sprawling, both in how much time it covers and the criminal behavior it accuses Combs of. It alleges that through all of those name changes and career moves, Diddy created and ran a criminal enterprise whose members and associates engaged in and attempted to engage in, among other crimes, sex trafficking, forced labor, kidnapping, arson, bribery, and obstruction of justice. These charges are serious, and if convicted, Diddy could wind up in prison for the rest of his life. Combs has pled not guilty to all charges. His attorney called the federal case against him an unjust prosecution and said Combs is an imperfect person, but not a criminal. Over the course of this series, we've traced Diddy's rise to fame, power, and wealth and the allegations that have cast a shadow over that rise. Diddy's trial is set to start soon, so we're switching gears. This episode is going to sound a little different. Aaron and I are going to sit down for a talk and nerd out on the legal issues we think you need to know about before the trial begins. It'll be a conversation between a defense attorney and a longtime legal reporter. We'll cover the charges against Diddy and what they really mean. We'll highlight some of the evidence the government says they have and dig into possible strategies for his defense. I'm Brian Buckmire from ABC Audio. This is bad. The Case Against Diddy, episode 6, USA V'sean Combs. In this series, we've talked about the many civil lawsuits Against Diddy, roughly 60 active cases in total. Now, the first one that really set this story in motion was the one brought by Diddy's ex girlfriend, Cassie Ventura. You'll remember that suit quickly settled with no admission of guilt. The other civil lawsuits are moving at their own pace, but this trial is for the criminal case brought by federal prosecutors from the Southern District of New York.

[Aaron Katerski]

Criminal cases could put him in Jail civil cases could cost him money. But there's one that may be more important than any other, and that's the civil case since settled, brought by Cassi Ventura, his former girlfriend, because that's the one that caught the eye of federal prosecutors.

[David]

So how do you think that maybe Cassi's and other lawsuits may affect the federal criminal investigation and even the case?

[Aaron Katerski]

Federal prosecutors do what you and I do, right. They read stuff. They read the papers, they watch tv. And if they look at something and they say, man, what's alleged here? This could be criminal. So the prosecutors are reading these things, and it does give them, at least at the outset, a place to start. And that's when they start to figure out with, in this case, federal agents from Homeland Security investigations where they need to search, what they need to look for, and where it all might be.

[David]

I'm curious for this answer, especially because you and I know so much about this case, and I don't think it's an easy one to distill into a sentence. But imagine someone is living under a rock, and they're kind of just running by, and they're like, aaron, what's this case about? Just give me a sentence. If you were to boil down to a sentence, a couple of words, what is this whole case against Diddy about?

[Aaron Katerski]

Freak offs.

[David]

Yeah. I only laugh because we have circled that idea so many times talking about.

[Aaron Katerski]

This case, and yet it does do an injustice, because the freak offs which the defense and prosecutors characterize, certainly in different ways, are either these orgies that women are forced to participate in, or it's a prudish government snooping into somebody's private bedroom activities.

[David]

I like the larger umbrella and how you kind of pose it, at least from the defense standpoint of Sean Combs, just really like some freaky stuff. And maybe they do a couple of pills before they have sex. Maybe they drink too much alcohol before sex, and everyone was okay with that kind of lifestyle. And I think you said it well that the government's just like a prudish prosecution.

[Aaron Katerski]

Yep. And the case, in some ways turns on how our sensibilities about sexual assault have evolved. Right. Because we now have a more discerning sense of what it means to consent or not or to be put in situations where consent is possible or. Or not. And I think we as a society may look differently upon that type of argument than we would have 20 years ago. According to prosecutors, there was no consent. These women had no choice. They were drugged. They were held against their will. There's kidnapping that's part of this. There's an awful lot of deviant behavior that's described in the indictment.

[Brian Buckmire]

The freak offs come up so often when we talk about this case because they bring together the three main charges Diddy is facing. Racketeering conspiracy, two counts of sex trafficking, and two counts of transportation to engage in prostitution. Prosecutors say these alleged crimes involve at least seven victims. Transportation to engage in prostitution is pretty self explanatory, but the other two charges are worth spending some time on. Racketeering conspiracy, we've talked about it in previous episodes. It's where two or more people agree to take part in a pattern of criminal behavior. It's sometimes called a RICO charge. And RICO is just an acronym for the name of the federal law originally intended to combat organized crime. Rudy Giuliani famously used it to target the Mafia in New York city as a U.S. attorney in the 80s.

[Aaron Katerski]

And just the idea that he's charged with racketeering conspiracy means federal prosecutors are treating him like a. A mob family. He is an entity, a criminal entity in the eyes of prosecutors, unto himself. And the whole purpose of this criminal enterprise that they allege Sean Combs to be is to gather up women and use them, coerce them for Combs's own sexual pleasure.

[Brian Buckmire]

Then there's a sex trafficking charge. It's a term you've probably heard before, but I think it's often misunderstood. So here's an attorney's definition. Sex trafficking is making a person engage in sex acts they don't consent to through force, fraud, or coercion. And it doesn't necessarily have to involve the exchange of money. What kicks this up to a federal charge and not just a state charge is when the victims are made to cross state lines. So you can see how the freak offs encapsulate all three of these charges. According to prosecutors, Diddy allegedly ran a criminal network that helped orchestrate sex parties, including transporting sex workers and other alleged victims from one state to another and forcing them to participate. Like we mentioned earlier, prosecutors have also accused Diddy of other crimes. Bribery, forced labor, obstruction of justice, kidnapping, and arson. The kidnapping and arson stood out to me. Prosecutors don't name the victim of the arson. They call this person individual 1. However, the timing and facts described by the government sound a lot like the explosion of rapper Kid Cudi's car. Remember, Cassie describes that incident in her lawsuit. She alleged Diddy was involved in the explosion after he found out Cassie and Kid Cudi briefly dated. Kid Cudi told the New York Times that his car did in fact, blow up. This arson charge by prosecutors allegedly shows the lengths that Combs would go to maintain control over his victims.

[Aaron Katerski]

And it's a pretty powerful example not only of the control that Diddy could allegedly exert, but also the power that he had to give orders.

[Brian Buckmire]

Local authorities never charged Combs for anything related to Kid Cudi's car explosion, and his lawyer maintains Combs had no involvement in the incident. After the break, we look at the prosecution's case against Diddy, including possible evidence and who their star witness might be.

[Debra Roberts]

Ever go on a date so bad you need an everything shower? Luckily for you, Billie makes products for that. A loofah full of nourishing body wash can scrub off the cringe from that extremely awkward hug. A full body shave with Billie's award winning razor will remind you what going smoothly actually feels like. And hydrating body lotion can delete dryness faster than you can delete the dating apps. You've got your reasons. Billie's got your routine. Shop in store [e-mail] Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile.

[David]

I don't know if you knew this.

[Ryan Reynolds]

But anyone can get the same Premium.

[Brian Buckmire]

Wireless for $15 a month plan that I've been enjoying. It's not just for celebrities.

[Ryan Reynolds]

So do like I did and have.

[Brian Buckmire]

One of your assistant's assistants switch you.

[Ryan Reynolds]

To Mint Mobile today.

[Brian Buckmire]

I'm told it's super easy to [e-mail].

[Debra Roberts]

Switch upfront payment of $45 for 3 month plan equivalent to $15 per month Required intro rate first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees, extra fee, full [e-mail] this episode is brought to you by Shopify. Do you have a point of sale system you can trust or is it a real pos? You need Shopify for retail. From accepting payments to managing inventory, Shopify POS has everything you need to sell in person. Go to shopify.com system, all lowercase to take your retail business to the next level. Today, that's shopify.com system.

[Brian Buckmire]

A couple weeks ago, I was glued to my computer, constantly refreshing the court's filing system for updates on Diddy's case. April 15th was supposed to be the day prosecutors would file a list of witnesses they may call to testify. But that didn't happen. At least not in a way that was accessible to the public. But here's what we do know. According to recent court filings, prosecutors are planning to call multiple alleged victims. The government refers to them as victim 1, 2, 3 and so on Keeping their identities anonymous.

[Aaron Katerski]

You have to believe Cassie Ventura is the star witness. Right? Because there she is on video being punched and kicked and dragged in the hallway of a hotel in Los Angeles by Sean Combs. And that, to prosecutors, is almost where the case starts and ends. But the defense is saying that that video does not depict what we think it does. It depicts the end of an otherwise loving relationship. And they're saying that Cassie Ventura, despite what you see in the video, was actually enjoying herself in the company of Sean Combs and male prostitutes and these sex performances called freak offs. And that's going to be at least part of their argument.

[Brian Buckmire]

Cassie alleged in her lawsuit that this incident, seen on hotel surveillance video and released by cnn, happened right after a freak off. Diddy's team has asked the judge to exclude the video from trial, arguing CNN edited the footage and that it's inaccurate. CNN denies the allegation. The judge has agreed with the prosecution, and the video will be played at trial.

[David]

This case isn't just based on the evidence or the testimony of prospective witnesses. I mean, they raided two of his homes. And so what kind of stuff can we expect that might come from those homes that I think that the defense is feverishly trying to have suppressed?

[Aaron Katerski]

Well, it seems as if you're to take some of the allegations in civil complaints, know at their word that Combs recorded a lot of things that went on at his private parties. And it's possible that prosecutors may have some access to videotapes or audio tapes that could be potentially damning evidence. Undoubtedly, they would try to use phone records to make sure that Combs was in the place they say he was in at the time they say whatever occurred, occurred, there'll be some of that. But they have all of that electronic devices, icloud accounts. So whatever photos, videos and documents exist, the government has them.

[David]

Speaking of the prosecutors in the case, and you're sitting there in court because we can read the documents, we can read the articles. How powerful is their presentation of the evidence? And do you feel like they have what they need not only to further this prosecution, but potentially to get a conviction?

[Aaron Katerski]

They certainly feel they have what they need. And you well know an office like the Southern District of New York does not bring a case that they don't think they can win. They only shoot for the moon if they can get the moon. And they think the video evidence and some of the other evidence that they've amassed from the home through the searches of his electronic devices, through eyewitness interviews is going to be enough. To convict their presentation, the defense is always more theatrical. I mean, look at you in this suit. And I mean, look at you, maroon with the skinny tie. I mean, you look good.

[Brian Buckmire]

My tailor and I would call it oxblood, but let's not split hairs.

[Aaron Katerski]

No federal prosecutor would be caught in this. They look, would wear what I'm wearing, the dull blue and the.

[David]

I get a few looks when I'm in the sdny. In this suit, I mean, you look good.

[Aaron Katerski]

And federal prosecutors are much more buttoned up, not only in appearance, but in presentation. And so they may say the most damning thing in the most mundane way. And that's how they get these defendants.

[David]

When you've got a client in the sdny, it's almost not so much as, how do I beat this case? It's how do I shave off a couple of years? Can my client proffer, is there someone else involved? Is there a bigger fish in this. In this case? And so is there a bigger fish with Diddy?

[Aaron Katerski]

I don't know that there is, Brian. I think. Look, first, the defense has said a plea deal is off the table. He intends to fight this. He intends to win. He denies ever sexually assaulting anyone, man, woman, child, adult, anybody. His representatives have said, and he believes that the prosecution is in large part underpinned by race and that he got a raw deal when the magistrate approved the search warrants of his house and his electronics and the like, and that he can beat this. So a plea deal seems to be off the table from the defense point of view. But there are loads of allegations of who may have known what, when, and where. Once you have Sean Combs, who else is there, really? That was the case with Jeffrey Epstein. They only went after Ghislaine Maxwell after Epstein died by suicide and in jail.

[David]

So I understand why you preface it as, are there other people who are involved? And I've seen this on social media a lot, and I hesitate to always respond when I see it by writing a comment. But some of the criticism is, how do you have a RICO with only one defendant? Because by definition, to conspire, you have to have two or more. I can't conspire by myself. I can conspire with you, but I can't conspire by myself. So you have a RICO where only Diddy is named as a defendant. But even the allegations, there has to be a quote, unquote, criminal enterprise, and this can't operate on its own. So are we going to have a RICO case with only one defendant?

[Aaron Katerski]

Prosecutors were clear in their, in their paperwork that there was this network of individuals that supplied the baby oil and the drugs and got all the hotel rooms ready for the freak offs and arranged travel for the male prostitutes which the defense says are legal escorts. Now is stacking up boxes of baby oil in a hotel room a charge worthy crime? I don't know. Whether their actions are criminal in and of themselves is an open question. And who's to say who's not talking to the feds behind closed doors?

[Brian Buckmire]

Eventually we'll see who takes the witness stand, but we may never know all the names of the people from Diddy's inner circle who cooperated with prosecutors.

[David]

After the break, should we expect Diddy.

[Brian Buckmire]

To testify and what should his defense be?

[Debra Roberts]

Did you know that parents rank financial literacy as the number one most difficult life skill to teach? Meet Greenlight, the debit card and money app for families. With Greenlight, you can send money to kids quickly, set up chores automate allowance and keep an eye on your kids spending with real time notifications, kids learn to earn, save and spend wisely. And parents can rest easy knowing their kids are learning about money. With guardrails in place, try Greenlight Risk free [e-mail] Spotify yeah, the NBA playoffs.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Are here and it's about to be.

[Brian Buckmire]

Ridiculous, unbelievable, unfair, downright nasty, straight up.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Can'T miss, don't blink. Grab your popcorn and strap in.

[Brian Buckmire]

Cinema. This isn't about who's next.

[Ryan Reynolds]

This is about who's now.

[Brian Buckmire]

This time it's different. The NBA playoff is presented by Google. Continue on espn, abc. Hello, it's Robin Roberts here. Hey guys, it's George Stephanopoulos here. Hey everybody, it's Michael Strahan here.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Wake up with Good Morning America. Robin, George michael, gma, America's first favorite number one morning show, the morning's first breaking news, exclusive interviews, what everyone will be talking about that day. Put some good in your morning and start your day with GMA.

[David]

Good Morning America.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Put the good in your morning. GMA 7A on ABC.

[Brian Buckmire]

A couple weeks ago, Diddy added a new lawyer to his team, according to court filings. Brian Steele. He's a high profile Georgia attorney who recently got a lot of attention for representing rapper Young Thug in a racketeering case that lasted almost a year. The artist ultimately pled guilty to some charges and no contest to others. A big win for him. He was released on probation and sentenced to time served. Brian Steele brings the number of attorneys on Diddy's team up to four. Two men, two women. So back to my conversation with Aaron, let's fast forward.

[David]

The government puts on their case. The defense I'm anticipating they put on some kind of a case. At some point in time, the judge is going to look to Sean Combs and say, do you want to testify? What's your feeling about his answer on that one? I mean, everyone always asks me, and I know it's reading tea leaves, but.

[Aaron Katerski]

Defense attorneys all tell his client, no, right. Do not testify. I don't see Sean Combs taking the witness stand, do you?

[David]

So if I was a betting person, I would say no. But as much as we joke that sometimes the defense attorney says don't testify, legally speaking it is the client's right whether or not they testify. I can only advise someone whether or not it's a smart idea. And sometimes people with large egos make large mistakes. I also don't think that this is a case where it would make sense for him to testify, because it's going to be a situation of who do you believe more, Sean Combs or these alleged victims? And I don't think you want that to be the argument you have. You want this to be an argument of the prosecutor didn't meet their burden, they don't have credible witnesses, they haven't proven this case beyond a reasonable doubt. And I think you achieve that a lot easier and a lot smoother without the cross examination of your own client. And I'll say this, I'm 0 for 12 with Klein's testifying.

[Aaron Katerski]

Well, the cross examination would be brutal because isn't the first question. So when you were hitting Cassie after dragging her through the hallway, were you really mad about something else? And that is you right smacking her? Let's play that again. Jurors, let's see that a third time. That is you, right? Let's just make sure it's the this.

[David]

Is a case that I would be worried about. The what abouts.

[Brian Buckmire]

What about this time?

[David]

What about when you said this? What about? What about? What about? And I think as much as Sean Combs have been in the public eye and as much as we've seen things that were re evaluating, like 20 years later, like the Conan O'Brien interview when he talks about locking the doors, those things have a very different context now than they did back then. So it would be interesting to see.

[Brian Buckmire]

Like I've said before, I'm not involved in Diddy's case. But as a defense attorney, I've spent some time puzzling over the legal arguments Diddy's defense team could make. And here's What I've got. The trafficking charges Diddy faces are federal because they involve movement across state lines. So if you could argue against the things that make them federal crimes while admitting to the elements that would make them state crimes, then they would have no business in federal court and they would get thrown out. Admitting to state crimes would be a problem, except those crimes have a statute of limitations. And for Diddy, the statute of limitations on some of the major allegations against him have expired, including the incident where he attacked Cassie in a hotel.

[David]

I want to run this by you real quick because we always like to play a little devil's advocate.

[Aaron Katerski]

Yeah.

[David]

What if Sean Combs simply comes out and says, I committed all the state crimes? I am a domestic abuser, I hit women, I beat women. I had a really dark part of my life, but at no point in time was my violence the purpose for them crossing state lines. The same way that you and I may take our lives out to dancing in Brooklyn and then decide to go get dinner in Manhattan, we have the ability to go from one borough to the next. Well, we don't have Sean Combs money because he has the ability to go from LA to Miami to France. And so he may not use his force to get them to travel state lines. It's just that when he's in la, there's an argument and there was violence, they made up, and they voluntarily decided to go to Florida. And so it's not that he's using the force, fraud or coercion to have them transfer over state lines. It's just that he has bumps in his relationship of violence in different states that would knock out the sex trafficking. And if he has a group of people that work for him because he's not folding his his own sheets, he's not cleaning up his own hotel rooms, does that mean it's a criminal enterprise? Because people help him to do the things that a rich and famous person has the ability to. And I've always been in the business of, you know what, your reputation may take a hit, but you're not going to go to jail or prison. And I think you could have fallen on that sword and say, I don't traffic, but I am a flawed person in my mind. And again, I'm putting aside the arson and a lot of other things that could be the beginning of a potential defense, because this could all be state charges and you just try to negate the federal aspect of it. Does that pass the laugh test or work in your mind in any way, shape or form?

[Aaron Katerski]

Sure, we haven't seen his attorneys try to do that yet. So far they've gone for bigger swings that does not involve him conceding any aspect of bad behavior other than maybe at the outset they conceded he had some problems with drugs and alcohol that they didn't specify, but that's what they made it sound like. But they've gone for the bigger swing of this is a racist prosecution. Cassie was a willing participant. This is a loving relationship. This video isn't what it seems. They haven't done a more nuanced defense at least yet. And I would look for prosecutors, as much as they included, to also put some blinders on the jury to say this isn't about Biggie Smalls, this isn't about a gun case in Manhattan and all the other things that Combs has been associated with. True or not, this is about whether his life operated as a criminal enterprise for the purpose of coercing women into these sexual acts. I think this is a case from the perspective of prosecutors solely about the victims and how Combs allegedly committed crimes using them. But it is going to be interesting and it's going to be dramatic and it's going to be painful and it's going to be graphic. It will not lack for interesting discourse.

[David]

Well, Aaron, it's always a pleasure.

[Aaron Katerski]

It's not a see you in court.

[David]

I hope you are never reporting on any of my cases. But yes, I'll probably see you in court too. We'll probably see each other in court when we're covering this case.

[Aaron Katerski]

Actually look forward to it. It's going to be fascinating.

[Brian Buckmire]

Jury selection in Diddy's trial is set to start on May 5th. Follow this podcast so you can stay up to date on the case. Twice a week we'll bring you the important developments from the courtroom and analysis of what it all means. So follow Bad Rap the case against Diddy in your favorite podcast app. If you like this podcast, please share it and give it a five star rating on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. That helps other people find it. Bad Rap the Case Against Diddy is a production of ABC Audio. I'm Brian Buckmire. This podcast was written and produced by Vika Aronson, Camille Peterson and Nancy Rosenbaum. Tracy Samuelson is our Story Editor Associate Producer Amirah Williams Production help from Shane McKeon fact checker Audrey Mostek Story Consultant Sweeney St Ville Supervising Producer Sasha Aslanian Original music by Eben Viola Mixing by Rick Kwan Ariel Chester is our social Media producer. This podcast was powered by the journalists at impact by Nightline 2020, GMA and the ABC News Investigative unit. Thanks to those teams. And special thanks to Stephanie Maurice, Liz Alessi and Katie Dandas. Josh Cohan is ABC Audio's director of podcast programming. Laura Mayer is our executive producer.

[Ryan Reynolds]

I can't tell you how often I hear, oh, I'm a little ocd. I like things neat. That's not ocd. I'm Howie Mandel and I know this because I have ocd. Actual OCD causes relentless unwanted thoughts. What if I did something terrible and forgot? What if I'm a bad person? Why am I thinking this terrible thing? It makes you question absolutely everything and you'll do anything to feel better. OCD is debilitating, but it's also highly treatable with the right kind of therapy. Regular talk therapy doesn't cut it. OCD needs specialized therapy. That's why I want to tell you about NO cd. NOCD is the world's largest virtual therapy provider for ocd. Their licensed therapists provide specialized therapy virtually and it's covered by insurance for over 155 million Americans. If you think you might be struggling with OCD, visit nocd.com to schedule a free 15 minute call and learn more. That's n o c d dot com.

[Brian Buckmire]

Hello, it's Robin Roberts here. Hey, guys, it's George Stephanopoulos here. Hey, everybody, it's Michael Strahan here.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Wake up with Good Morning America. Robin, George Michael, GMA America. America's favorite number one morning show. The morning's first breaking news. Exclusive interviews, what everyone will be talking about that day. Put some good in your morning and start your day with GMA.

[David]

Good Morning America.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Put the good in your morning. GMA 7A on ABC.