Devil in the Desert Bonus: The Third Man

Summary

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20/20: Devil in the Desert Bonus – The Third Man

Host: Brad Milke (ABC News)
Guest: Matt Gutman (ABC Chief National Correspondent)
Original Air Date: August 29, 2025

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Episode Overview

This bonus episode of 20/20 dives into the chilling true crime case featured in the "Devil in the Desert" series—focusing on the oft-overlooked third perpetrator, Ryan Kevorkian. Host Brad Milke invites Matt Gutman to discuss never-before-heard details uncovered through a “proffer” interview with Kevorkian, who participated in the brutal 2012 Orange County kidnapping and torture case. The episode explores Kevorkian’s perspective, his involvement, and the power dynamic between the assailants, offering exclusive insights for true crime listeners and case-followers.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Setting the Stage: The Third Man’s Story

• Introduction to the Three Perpetrators (01:45)
  • Jose Nayeri: The criminal mastermind, orchestrator, and public face of the crime.
  • Kyle Handley: Received a sentence nearly identical to Nayeri for hands-on involvement.
  • Ryan Kevorkian ("Mr. Brown"): The less-covered third participant, whose 2017 proffered interview gives this episode its backbone.
    • Notable Quote – Matt Gutman:

    “What’s so interesting about Ryan Kevorkian is that he actually gave a very detailed and long interview with investigators—that proffer.” (02:48)

2. The Proffer Interview: Unpacking the Night of the Crime

• What’s a Proffer? (02:52)

  • A protected conversation where a defendant shares information with investigators, not directly usable against them in court but helpful for building cases or implicating others.

• Kevorkian’s Relationship with Nayeri: (04:38)

  • Longstanding friendship from high school wrestling, estranged after a physical fight, then pulled back in by Nayeri in 2012.
  • Ryan Kevorkian recalls:

    “I met Kevin Hussein in high school on a wrestling team...” (04:38)

The “Lunch Meeting”: The Setup (05:33)

• Nayeri lures Kevorkian back into his orbit, claiming he needs “help” for a “little hit” in Newport Beach.
  • Kevorkian:

    “He says, I need your help. I said, what's going on? He says, I have a little hit I want to do in Newport area.” (06:04)

• Kevorkian agrees to act as muscle for a promised $1,000 plus a cut of supposed stolen money.

Surveillance and Planning (07:08)

• Kevorkian moves into Kyle Handley’s house, assists in extensive surveillance.
• Nayeri boasts about possessing video from within the victim's residence.
  • Kevorkian:

    “He showed me a videotape. He had a videotape showing me what the house looked like… from the rooms, the rooftop, things like that, where we're going to hide…” (07:44)

The Crime Night: Unraveling the Plan (08:37 – 15:57)

• Original Plan: Sneak in disguised as construction workers, hide in the attic, wait to confront the victim (Michael).
• Once inside, Kevorkian realizes Nayeri brought a backpack containing not just snacks but guns, zip ties, and ski masks.
• Growing apprehension as the night drags on and unexpected complications arise:
  • The victim’s girlfriend, Mary Barnes, comes home first, disrupting Nayeri’s plan.
  • Kevorkian:

    “I didn't sign up for this. I don't want to hurt a woman. It's a big red line for me.” (15:52)

The Attack: From Robbery to Torture (17:07 – 18:48)

• Kevorkian says he tried to reassure Mary:

  “I remember telling her, this has nothing to do with you. I'm sorry. I felt horrible, to be honest with you.” (17:07)

• The crime escalates as Michael is abducted, beaten, and tortured.

• The most shocking moment:

  • Nayeri orders Handley to mutilate Michael—an act, according to Kevorkian, that shocked everyone but Nayeri himself.
  • Kevorkian describing the moment:

    “He told Kyle, you're gonna cut his thing off... Since you didn't give us the money, we're gonna cut your dick off...” (18:26)

• Victims are left in the desert, while the three perpetrators go to Subway for sandwiches—a moment underscoring the cruelty and casualness of their actions.

  • Kevorkian:

    “Hussein and Kyle, they left. They left me in the van at a Subway. We ate kind of close to where the house was…” (19:26)

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3. Aftermath & Legal Fallout

Kevorkian’s Role: Cooperation and Sentencing (20:43 – 21:27)

• Law enforcement considered Kevorkian a far less dominant figure than Nayeri, attributing most of the planning and violence to the mastermind.
• Kevorkian pleaded guilty, received a reduced sentence of 12 years and four months due to his cooperation and plea deal, while Nayeri and Handley received life terms.
  • Matt Gutman reflects:

    “He pleaded guilty to two counts of kidnapping, a count of burglary, count of assault with a firearm, and he was given…12 years and four months.” (21:10)

Ongoing Fallout: Is the Story Over? (21:38)

• Nayeri continues to appeal his conviction; the case, in Matt Gutman’s view, lingers long after official closure.
  • Matt Gutman:

    “With most cases like this…it’s never quite over. …We will bring it to you as soon as we hear anything about that appeal.” (21:38)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Nayeri’s Dominance:
  Matt Gutman:

  “The thing with Nyere is that he gets these people back in his orbit. And even though everything in the every fiber in their being screams don't do it, they do it.” (06:30)

• Kevorkian’s Fearful Cooperation:
  Ryan Kevorkian:

  “I'm worried about him. No, it's my family. He knows where my family's at. He knows what. That's what I worry about. ... This guy is very ... dangerous dude. Do not put anything above this guy.” (20:23)

• Brad Milke’s Reflection on the Horror:

  “It’s also, like, sadistic sounding, Matt...” (19:36)

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Key Timestamps

• 01:45 – Overview of main perpetrators and the rarely-discussed Ryan Kevorkian
• 04:38 – Kevorkian describes his estranged friendship with Nayeri
• 05:33 – Nayeri recruits Kevorkian for the robbery
• 07:44 – Evidence of video surveillance from inside victim's house
• 13:24–15:57 – Tension, unexpected arrival, and the moral qualms of Kevorkian
• 17:07–18:48 – The torture, mutilation, and Kevorkian’s horror
• 19:26 – Aftermath: The perpetrators’ chilling Subway stop
• 20:43 – Kevorkian’s legal fate and cooperation
• 21:38 – Unfinished business: Nayeri’s ongoing appeals

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Tone and Reflections

Brad Milke and Matt Gutman maintain a tone of journalistic curiosity, horror, and empathy for the victims. They acknowledge the unreliability and self-serving nature of Kevorkian’s statements but balance that with investigative context and law enforcement perspectives, emphasizing just how “unsettling” and inhuman the crime truly was. The conversation is candid, respectful of the graphic nature, and intent on demystifying the roles and motivations behind a notorious crime.

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Summary prepared for true crime enthusiasts seeking a deep, inside look at the minds, motivations, and consequences behind one of Southern California’s most notorious cases.

Transcript

[Brad Milke]

This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. It's Brad Milke, host of ABC's Daily News podcast Start Here. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home and auto policies. Try [e-mail], progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states. Hey, just a quick warning here. This episode contains very graphic descriptions that may not be suitable for all listeners. In a story like Devil in the Desert, sometimes there are a bunch of details that don't make it into the final version of the series, entire sidebars and plot twists that are so interesting, but we just can't quite fit them into six episodes. I'm Brad Milke. I'm host of ABC's Start Here podcast. And as someone who was gasping with each twist and turn of Devil in the Desert, I'm glad that we get to bring you one of these today in a special bonus episode. Joining me today is the host himself, Matt Gutman, ABC's chief national correspondent, who first learned the story of Jose Nayeri more than 10 years ago. He's been following it ever since. Matt, great to have you here.

[Matt Gutman]

Hey, Brad, good to be back.

[Brad Milke]

I think I've told you this before. I'm from Orange county in California, where so much of this story takes place. So I grew up around Newport Beach. I grew up around Balboa Island. I made the drives out to the desert. So I was just transfixed by how unsettling these locations became because of the depravity of this story. Obviously, Nyeri is the centerpiece of this series. His name is the one that's most often associated with it, especially after the escape from jail. But there are still other characters in the story that we haven't dwelled on as much. So what I'd like to do here today for the true obsessives among us is ask you who else needs to be talked about here?

[Matt Gutman]

Okay. I mean, obviously there's a main cast of three perpetrators, and the first one is the man that I spent years speaking to and exchanging letters with and finally meeting in jail. And that's Jose Nyeri. He's the man investigators called the mastermind of the whole plan. The other guy is Kyle Handley, who was given almost an identical sentence to Nyeri for his role in the crime. This man, Michael, who was a dispensary owner, they believed he had a million dollars buried somewhere in the desert, took him out to the desert tased, beat him and eventually zip tied his penis and cut it off and the penis was never found. So an extraordinary act, an extraordinary heinous crime. And the third man, this is Ryan Kevorkian. And in the series, Brad, he's known as Mr. Brown. And we don't talk a lot about him. But what's so interesting about Ryan Kevorkian is that he actually gave a very detailed and long interview with investigators that proffer.

[Brad Milke]

So remind me what a proffer like just. I know you guys mentioned this with the other proffer in here, but just.

[Matt Gutman]

As a refresher, basically a suspect or defendant sits down with prosecutors and investigators. It's supposed to be a no holds barred interview and what they say can't be used against them in court. Now they can use stuff tangentially and they can also use the information against other suspects or co conspirators. And in that interview he was pretty detailed about how the crime unfolded that night. He gave some shocking details that I actually hadn't heard before. We also have to remember it's his perspective. He is very likely self serving as almost any defendant or suspect would be. But it does give us some insight both into exactly how that night went down, who did what and what their thinking was.

[Brad Milke]

Yeah, and so you know, the story that you've been describing is all in 2012, but this interview that happens in 2017. What I guess what do we learn from his again from his perspective.

[Matt Gutman]

So remember, this is happening not long after Hossein a masterminds this insane escape which.

[Brad Milke]

Absolutely insane. Insane.

[Matt Gutman]

Everybody in Southern California is terrorized, especially anybody who'd ever said anything against him. So you know, Ryan Kevorkian is a little bit afraid of this guy. And you can hear it in, in the interview. And I just want to set the scene of what this interview is like.

[Ryan Kevorkian]

Okay. It's September 14th at approximately 9:07 in the morning.

[Matt Gutman]

And we are so you can hear them sort of setting up the conversation. And one of the things investigators want to know as they start is what Nyere's relationship was like with Ryan Kevorkin.

[Ryan Kevorkian]

I met Kevin Hussein in high school on a wrestling team, things like that. You know what high school? Close west. Okay.

[Matt Gutman]

Remember Nayeri was this high school wrestler. Kevorkian was on the wrestling team with him. They even went to the Marines around the same time. In early 2011, Nayeri was already deeply involved in the medical marijuana business. These two guys had a fight and we're talking like two bears wrestling type of fight, like a Huge knockdown, fist throwing, knuckle dragging, fight. And they completely stopped talking. After being friends for, you know, almost well over a decade. And. And then at some point in the late summer of 2012, just a few weeks before the attack, Nyere reappeared in Ryan Kevorkian's life. And he asked Kevorkian, hey man, you know, do you want to go out to lunch with me?

[Ryan Kevorkian]

And so I get in a call with him. We go to a little Mexican restaurant. I can't remember what it's called, Don Juan's or something on the main boulevard or something like that. I can't remember. And we sit down, have lunch. He says, so you look like you tell me. You look like crap. And I'm like, well, thanks. Good seeing you too. After all these years, what do you want? Pretty much, you know, I mean, what do you want? Leave me alone, you know, like I'm not bothering you. I'm not bothering knowing what you want. He's like, I need your help. I said, what's going on? He says, I have a little hit I want to do and Newport area.

[Matt Gutman]

And so he's talking about this house on the beach, on that palm lined street where Michael lived and where Mary had just moved in, like a couple of days before.

[Ryan Kevorkian]

He told me he needed money, the guy owed him some money, whatever. And pretty much he wanted me to be the weight and stuff. He said, so we're just going to surprise him at his house. I'm going to get the money. If any issues, I have you there with me. If not, we're jamming.

[Matt Gutman]

The thing with Nyere is that he gets these people back in his orbit. And even though everything in the every fiber in their being screams don't do it, they do it. And so he eventually agrees to this deal to basically act as the muscle in whatever robbery it is that Nyeri has concocted. Nyere offered him 1000 bucks, but plus a cut of whatever money they steal. And Kevorkian agrees.

[Ryan Kevorkian]

He said, if anything, worst case scenario, you get a thousand no matter what. If there's more money involved, this guy owes me, then I'll give you more. And I said, okay.

[Matt Gutman]

Now remember, in Nyere's head, Michael has a million bucks buried somewhere in the desert. This is a big deal for them. And so a week before the crime, Kevorkian says that he moved into Kyle Handley's house. Like everything's starting to pick up. And he ends up helping with the surveillance that Nyere and Hanley have been doing on Michael's house. In Newport. And as part of the surveillance, they're not just tracking his car. They're not just following him. Nyere's gotten inside the house. He's gotten video from inside the victim's house in Newport just days before the attack.

[Ryan Kevorkian]

He showed me a videotape. He had a videotape showing me what the house looked like. Okay. And stuff. Yes, he had a videotape from the inside. Yes, from the inside. He showed me actually what the house looked like from the rooms, the rooftop, things like that, where we're going to hide, Things like that. He showed me that.

[Matt Gutman]

And they make a plan. They pretend to be construction workers. They're going to sneak in through an unlocked balcony door, hide inside in the attic until their target, this guy Michael, came home.

[Ryan Kevorkian]

So you got there in the late afternoon. You thought you were going to spend a couple of hours. A couple hours there, yeah. And then when he got home.

[Matt Gutman]

So, like, in his mind, the plan is they creep in, they hide in the attic, they wait for Michael. Michael comes home, they threaten him, maybe they have to rough him up a bit. They get the money, they get out. Obviously, that is not even remotely what ends up panning out.

[Ryan Kevorkian]

He had the backpack, but I didn't. He took the backpack, but I didn't know what he had in there till we got to the upstairs.

[Matt Gutman]

And so what is in that backpack is what changes Ryan Kevorkian's understanding of what this is about and entirely. This is not just about muscle. And this night is going to be a lot longer than he or anyone else ended up expecting.

[Brad Milke]

And we're already hearing stuff just in this proffer interview that we haven't heard so far in this entire series. So far. And when we come back, there's even more of these previously unheard details. So we'll be back right after the break.

[Matt Gutman]

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[Brad Milke]

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[Matt Gutman]

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[Brad Milke]

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[Brad Milke]

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[Matt Gutman]

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[Brad Milke]

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[Matt Gutman]

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[Brad Milke]

KPMG make the Difference this episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. It's Brad Milke, host of ABC's Daily News podcast. Start Here. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home and auto policies. Try [e-mail], progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. It's Brad Milke, host of ABC's Daily News podcast. Start Here. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home and auto policies. Try [e-mail], progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states. Now streaming.

[Matt Gutman]

Let's go.

[Brad Milke]

The Nader Sisters Trade the Bayou we.

[Matt Gutman]

Didn'T have a lot of money, but.

[Brad Milke]

We had each other for the Big Apple. Being a supermodel, I was introduced to.

[Matt Gutman]

This hustle bustle lifestyle and I wanted.

[Brad Milke]

To bring my sisters along for the ride. Welcome to your new messy addiction. You can take the girl out of.

[Matt Gutman]

Baton Rouge, but you can't take the Baton Rouge out of the girl. The Nader Sisters we run in a pack. I'm Mary Holland. I'm Grace Anne.

[Ryan Kevorkian]

I'm Sarah Jane.

[Matt Gutman]

I'm Brooke and I run the show.

[Brad Milke]

Love Thy Nader. All episodes now streaming on Hulu.

[Matt Gutman]

You've seen the headlines, heard the debates.

[Brad Milke]

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[Matt Gutman]

Has the three pointer ruined basketball? And how did we get here?

[Ryan Kevorkian]

The rise of the three point shot can be partially traced to an eccentric.

[Brad Milke]

Kansas genius named Martin Manley, whose story.

[Matt Gutman]

Didn'T turn out quite the way he imagined.

[Ryan Kevorkian]

I decided I wanted to have one.

[Matt Gutman]

Of the most organized goodbyes in history. 30 for 30 podcast presents Chasing Basketball Heaven.

[Brad Milke]

Available now wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, we're back with Matt Gutman. I'm Brad Milke and we're breaking down some of the most compelling details about the third man in this twisted tale, Ryan Cavor. So Matt, in the first episode of the series, we heard from one of the victims of the crime, Mary Barnes. She's telling the story from her perspective of being awoken in the middle of the night with a gun digging into her neck. There's also another way to tell this story from a different perspective, the perspective of one of the attackers in the room. And that's what you guys sort of get here, right?

[Matt Gutman]

So Kevorkian sort of adds the other side of that that we didn't know. They're doing this in the middle or the early afternoon, and they hide in this, like, attic crawl, like, space at the top of the house. It's super hot there, and they're waiting for hours. Night falls, and Nayeri, of course, is prepared. Kevorkian realizes that he's got this big backpack, and not only does he have snacks and whatever they need for the hours, but Naeri has also packed guns. A pistol and a pump action shotgun. And at this point, Kevorkin's like, dude, I'm not shooting someone.

[Ryan Kevorkian]

Nairi was prepared. He was pretty sure. He told me right off the bat, he said, don't worry, I'll get you out of here. You know, you just run. I said, well, yeah, someone shooting, I'm gonna run. That's common sense.

[Matt Gutman]

And so Naeri doesn't just have guns in that backpack. He's got some other equipment that Kevorkian says continues to ring alarm bells for him.

[Brad Milke]

So he brought food and water.

[Ryan Kevorkian]

Food and water. Zip ties and zip ties. And I asked him in ski mask. In ski mask. I asked him, what zip ties? I asked him, what's that? You know, like, you know. He said, well, just in case it's not here. I said, what's not here? He said, the money. I said, well, you told me the money was here. You know, he told me, shut up, don't worry about it. You know, we argued a little bit and stuff. Pretty much. I was just like, you know, I shouldn't have trusted you. You know, what's really going on here? You know what I mean? As it is, I'm stupid to beating this out to begin with. Is he uptight the guy, and then leave him here? What's really going on? He said, if it's not here, that's why I have him. And what does that mean to you? I'm thinking, oh, crap. I'm thinking, this guy, they're going to take this guy somewhere.

[Brad Milke]

I was just about to say, matt, when you hear like, there's zip ties and then also, like, snacks, and you're planning on being there for a much longer time. And again, I Guess kevorkian has a reason to say, like, I didn't know anything in this session, but that, yeah, would sound like a very concerning.

[Matt Gutman]

Yeah, I mean, I think what you just said is really critical. Ryan kevorkian has to be self serving to some degree in this proffer. Right. He is trying to minimize his role in this as much as possible. I mean, I don't think it's so outlandish that in a home invasion that somebody would bring zip ties. If you're trying to tie people down and keep them from using their phones or running away. I mean, I don't find it that surprising. I'm sure the officers didn't either. But there is a problem that they didn't quite anticipate. And that problem is a blonde woman in yoga pants named Mary barnes.

[Ryan Kevorkian]

The girl comes home first. How did you know that?

[Matt Gutman]

Like, here she comes home from work, she eats dinner in her room, she gets ready for bed. And this is something that kevorkian simply did not expect.

[Ryan Kevorkian]

I said, I want a part of it and stuff. Then he starts getting kind of mad, calling me worthless. You know what I mean? I said, you should have told me this from the get go. You should have told me this from the get go and stuff.

[Matt Gutman]

Kevorkian's like, hey, man, I didn't sign up for this. I don't want to hurt a woman. It's a big red line for me.

[Ryan Kevorkian]

I.

[Matt Gutman]

He continues to say it in the interview with police, but now Mary's in her bedroom downstairs, and kevorkian realizes that she has to be part of the attack. Everybody in the house is part of the attack. What's about to happen is such a horror. But there is something kind of comic, Brad, in seeing these two, like, muscle bound, wrestler, heaviest, crouched in this attic with, you know, the litter of their snacks and some water bottles, sweaty and arguing about this crime that they're about to perpetrate and, you know, kind of bickering yet again. And remember, they'd had, like, a knockdown, bloody fistfight barely a year earlier. So this is not going great for them. Obviously, they're in it. A few hours later, they come down from the attic. It's the dead of night. Kevorkian says it's nyere who wakes up Mary and points the gun at her head and zip ties her. But again, according to kevorkian, it's him who whispers in mary's ear, don't worry. This is not about you.

[Ryan Kevorkian]

And I remember telling her, this has nothing to do with you. I'm sorry. I felt horrible, to be honest with you. I really have. I'm not BS with you guys. I felt horrible.

[Matt Gutman]

He felt badly. He's about to feel a little bit worse when he hears Nyeri go into Michael's room, wake him up, and just start beating him senseless. He alleges that it was Nyeri who then drags Michael down the stairs. And then it takes a turn, right? They're beating Michael. He says he doesn't have the money. And so Nyeri decides, well, they've got to get loaded into the van and driven out to the desert, where he believes that Michael has stashed a million dollars in cash. We now that not to be true. We know that Michael never had that kind of cash on him or anywhere near him, but that's where they're headed. And the whole ride out there, they're in the back of the van, and Kevorkian says he's watching Nyere beat and tase and torture Michael. And finally they get out to the desert, and Kevorkian's able to tell police that the story that Mary couldn't tell him. You know, she had that blindfold on her face. And he describes sort of laying Michael out on the ground. And, you know, the torture is continuing and the threats are continuing.

[Ryan Kevorkian]

What? Hussein goes and tells Kyle, you're gonna cut his thing off. He says, tell me the exact word. I think he told him, I'm gonna cut. We're gonna cut. Since you didn't give us the money, we're gonna cut your dick off. I think he told Kyle that. I heard him talking. Kyle's like, really? You know, like, it just came out of the blue.

[Matt Gutman]

So it seems that the part that makes this story so difficult to listen to and which has obviously completely changed the trajectory of Michael's life, to mutilate Michael was just a spur of the moment decision by Nyere. Handley seems shocked. Kevorkian says he was shocked. And so, remember, Michael is mutilated, doused with bleach, beaten, tased, burned, in agony. They leave Mary and Michael in the desert. It's now the morning of October 2nd. And then the three guys, you know, they go to Subway, they go get a sandwich.

[Ryan Kevorkian]

Hussein and Kyle, they left. They left me in the van at a Subway. We ate kind of close to where the house was at that and stuff.

[Brad Milke]

It's also, like, sadistic sounding, Matt. And it sounds like we keep talking about how Ryan Kevorkian has every reason to tell the cops. Like, none of this was my idea. This was all Jose Nairi. But it sounds like cops basically agree with that, right, that Nyeri is really the one in charge here.

[Matt Gutman]

Yes. I think, Brad, that becomes even more clear after this proffer with Kevorkian. And you can hear him. I mean, he is very reluctant. He didn't seem to be in that world at that time.

[Brad Milke]

Seems like he's having normal reactions to hearing, like, let's cut somebody's member off, and like that. Like.

[Matt Gutman]

Right. Normal reactions to having to bind a woman to hold an innocent person at gunpoint. And at this point, towards the end of the interview, Kevorkian's actually expressing fear about his family.

[Ryan Kevorkian]

Me worried.

[Matt Gutman]

Me.

[Ryan Kevorkian]

I'm worried about him. No, it's my family. He knows where my family's at. He knows what. That's what I worry about. You know, I was being honest with you guys. This guy is very. And you guys know that dangerous dude. Do not put anything above this guy.

[Brad Milke]

Well, that's like the muscle of the operation is saying, like, I'm scared of this guy still.

[Matt Gutman]

Yeah.

[Brad Milke]

Sounds like Kevorkian was cooperating. That's why you have this. This proffer deal. But I think it's totally fair to assume that anyone involved at any level in this heinous plot would be spending most of the rest of their life in prison just because it was that terrible. Kevorkin got much less time than that, though. Why?

[Matt Gutman]

I mean, I think he cooperated with police. He also made a plea deal. Right. Those other two guys pleaded not guilty. When you fight it and then you lose, typically the sentences are longer. So he pleaded guilty to two counts of kidnapping, a count of burglary, count of assault with a firearm, and he was given what is still a pretty hefty sentence of 12 years and four months. And, of course, Nayeri and Handley are both serving life terms.

[Brad Milke]

Matt, I'm curious just to hear your perspective, because at this point, you followed this case for a decade, so I guess, is it over? Like, what comes next here? But also, what are you taking with you?

[Matt Gutman]

You know, I think with most cases like this, Brad, it's never quite over. So, you know, everybody kind of always thinks about what happens with Nyeri. Is this guy going to get out? And what he's doing right now is filing a petition for appeal based on a number of issues. We're keeping an eye on it. There hasn't been any results specifically, but obviously we will bring it to you as soon as we hear anything about that appeal. But, yeah, I mean, this is the kind of case that I think sits with people for a long time.

[Brad Milke]

It's really interesting both to hear this new information you've been sharing with us and just to hear your reflections on this. Matt, as somebody who's been following this and who guided us through this entire series, really great reporting by you, really great work by everyone on the team. And I'm sure you're already working on another case right now, so we'll let you get to it. Thank you so much.

[Matt Gutman]

Thanks, Brad.

[Brad Milke]

All right, and that will do it for us. In the meantime, there is more to come from ABC Audio and the team at 2020 Mystery in Alaska. A brand new true crime podcast is out right now and if you've made it this far, you strike me as someone who likes to be in the know. Someone who, who appreciates not just the what, but also the why and the how. So if that's you, I would definitely suggest checking out the podcast that I host each weekday morning called Start Here. It's a quick daily news show. It's there for you whenever you want to. Just catch up on the news, from true crime yarns to the latest financial news that could impact decision making for you and your family. You'll even hear Matt Gutman sometimes. He's a regular we've linked to Start Here in our episode description to make things easy. So again, that starts Start Here. Revigate your podcasts. Thanks for having me. And until next time, I'm Brad Milke.

[Matt Gutman]

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[Brad Milke]

Come check out what's in stock and.

[Matt Gutman]

On sale at Fred's appliance. Save $370 on the whirlpool Hybrid Washer Dryer pair.

[Brad Milke]

The washer features a large capacity dual action agitator and 12 different wash seats cycles. So whether it's a heavy or light.

[Matt Gutman]

Load, you've got options. At Fred's. Our get it Today inventory and 30 day low price guarantee makes us the most convenient choice. We sell appliances only appliances.

[Brad Milke]

Everything from clothing to household items are getting more expensive each day. American Giant is about keeping things simple and close to home. They aren't affected by tariffs because their products never leave the US Support American made tariff free clothing with American Giant. Get 20% off your first order when you use promo code [e-mail]. that's 20% off when you use code [e-mail].