Dirty Little Secret

Summary

Podcast Summary: 20/20 – Episode "Dirty Little Secret" (Released March 22, 2025)

Host: ABC News | Title: Dirty Little Secret

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Introduction

In the gripping episode "Dirty Little Secret," ABC News' 20/20 explores the mysterious and tragic death of Carrie Baker, wife of respected Pastor Matt Baker. The episode meticulously unpacks whether Carrie’s death was a suicide or a meticulously planned murder, delving deep into family dynamics, community perceptions, and hidden secrets that surface during the investigation.

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Background: Matt and Carrie Baker

Carrie Baker was celebrated as a vibrant, free-spirited mother and wife, deeply rooted in her Christian faith. She and Matt Baker met at a Baptist summer camp, where their shared beliefs and mutual affection quickly led to marriage just a few months later.

• Carrie Baker [03:37]: “Carrie was always the bubbly little blond and just loved life. People were drawn to Carrie.”

• Matt Baker [03:55]: “We moved fast. We met in May and married in August.”

Their life seemed perfect to the outside world, with two young daughters, Cassidy and another, and a strong, faith-based family unit.

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Tragedy Strikes: Death of Cassidy

Just after Cassidy's first birthday, the Bakers received devastating news: Cassidy was diagnosed with a brain tumor. The subsequent 60 days at Cook Children's Hospital in Fort Worth were fraught with fear and uncertainty. Despite initial hopes, Cassidy tragically passed away, leaving Carrie deeply grief-stricken.

• Carrie Baker [07:39]: “She loved her girls and she was so strong for them. Cassidy's life was cut short, but she had them.”

This loss profoundly impacted Carrie, leading her to rely heavily on over-the-counter sleep aids and counseling to navigate her grief.

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The Night of Carrie Baker's Death

On a seemingly ordinary Friday night in Hewitt, Texas, Matt Baker returned home to find his wife, Carrie, unresponsive in their bedroom. Initial observations suggested a potential overdose: Carrie was found with a partially written suicide note, minimal clothing, and signs of possible alcohol usage.

• Matt Baker [10:25]: “I put my head to her chest and no air coming out. Felt for pulse. Nothing.”

Emergency responders arrived swiftly, but despite Matt’s attempts at CPR, Carrie was pronounced dead shortly after.

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Initial Investigation and Family Suspicion

Carrie's death was initially ruled a suicide based on the preliminary investigation. However, Carrie’s family and close community members started noticing inconsistencies:

• Carrie Baker [16:36]: “Murder. I mean, that's just not something that I could wrap my head around.”

Key red flags included the unsigned suicide note and Matt's continued communication attempts with Carrie’s phone weeks after her death. Carrie’s grief counselor, Joanne Bristol, and her mother, Linda Doolin, spearheaded a deeper investigation, uncovering past allegations against Matt and an ongoing affair with Vanessa Bowles, the daughter of the church’s music minister.

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Allegations Against Matt Baker and Vanessa Bowles

Further probing revealed a troubling history of Matt Baker, including past allegations of sexual misconduct and a complicated relationship with Vanessa Bowles. Vanessa's involvement became a critical focus as evidence suggested she had undue influence and access to Matt during the time surrounding Carrie’s death.

• Laura Wilson [20:35]: “He came up behind me and he pinned my arms behind my back and started trying to kiss me.”

Vanessa’s testimonies and enhanced forensic evidence, including the presence of Ambien in Carrie’s system despite no prescription, intensified suspicions of foul play.

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Legal Proceedings and Trial

Driven by mounting evidence and Vanessa’s crucial testimony, Matt Baker was arrested and charged with first-degree murder. The trial was marked by emotional testimonies from multiple women accusing Matt of manipulative and predatory behavior.

• Vanessa Bowles [73:12]: “He had gotten Big Horse pills. He said he emptied out all the contents and put crushed Ambien in them.”

The prosecution presented a compelling case, highlighting Matt’s premeditated actions to stage Carrie’s death as a suicide, including efforts to obscure evidence and maintain an alibi.

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Verdict and Sentencing

After a thorough trial, the jury found Matt Baker guilty of murder, sentencing him to 65 years in prison. The conviction was largely influenced by Vanessa Bowles’ detailed account of Matt’s intentions and actions leading up to and following Carrie’s death.

• Linda Doolin [77:15]: “We didn’t know if she might have even been involved.”

The case concluded with a sense of closure for Carrie’s family, although the pain of their loss remained profound.

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Notable Quotes

• Matt Baker [00:40]: “I put my head to her chest and no air coming out. Felt for pulse. Nothing.”

• Carrie Baker [16:36]: “Murder. I mean, that's just not something that I could wrap my head around.”

• Vanessa Bowles [67:36]: “He was a manipulative liar wearing the mask of God.”

• Linda Doolin [41:16]: “I knew that Carrie would never take her own life.”

• Matt Baker [80:22]: “I made a mistake. I should not have ever got involved in that. But I would never have hurt my wife.”

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Key Timestamps

• [03:04] – Matt and Carrie meet and marry.
• [05:37] – Death of daughter Cassidy.
• [10:10] – Night Carrie was found unresponsive.
• [19:00] – Family begins suspecting foul play.
• [29:00] – Vanessa Bowles introduced.
• [63:03] – Vanessa's critical testimony.
• [77:21] – Guilty verdict rendered.

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Conclusion

"Dirty Little Secret" is a poignant true crime narrative that intertwines personal loss with the pursuit of justice. The episode highlights the resilience of Carrie’s family, particularly Linda Doolin, whose unwavering determination unveiled the truth behind Carrie’s untimely death. Through relentless investigation and community support, the Bakers sought to honor Carrie’s memory by ensuring her death was rightfully acknowledged as murder rather than suicide.

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This comprehensive summary encapsulates the essential elements of the "Dirty Little Secret" episode, providing a clear and engaging overview for listeners and non-listeners alike.

Transcript

[Narrator]

This episode is brought to you by Universal Pictures.

[Reporter]

From Universal Pictures in Blumhouse come a storm of terror.

[Narrator]

From the director of the Shallows. The Woman in the Yard.

[Reporter]

Don't let her in.

[Narrator]

Where does she come from? What does she want?

[Reporter]

When will she leave?

[Narrator]

Today's the day.

[Reporter]

The Woman in the Yard only in theaters March 28th. A chaotic scene. Local pastor Matt Baker has arrived home to find his wife Carrie, unresponsive in their bedroom.

[Matt Baker]

I put my head to her chest and no air coming out. Felt for pulse. Nothing.

[Carrie Baker]

An EMT told me that my daughter was dead.

[Michael Irvin]

There was a piece of paper on the end table and something didn't set right.

[Matt Baker]

Your wife took her own life and it's pretty obvious.

[Carrie Baker]

I just kept saying there's no way.

[Reporter]

Was there an autopsy done? Initially?

[Narrator]

There was no autopsy done.

[Carrie Baker]

We don't think Carrie killed herself. We know she didn't. Your assignment for doing. We're investigating.

[Linda Doolin]

We did. It was nonstop. All the time.

[Carrie Baker]

I would go, good morning, Angels.

[Vanessa Bowles]

Carlie's Angels of Waco. They were this group of strong women who were not going to just let this go.

[Reporter]

You're presented with a crime scene that's not really a crime scene. Right.

[Carrie Baker]

Things aren't adding up. I have to know the truth. What are you talking about?

[Joanne Bristol]

Murder.

[911 Operator]

Ems, what's your emergency? My wife is laying in the bed. Her lips are blue, hands are cold.

[Reporter]

It was just before midnight here in the small town of Hewitt, Texas, on the outskirts of Waco. Beloved minister Matt Baker comes home to find his wife unresponsive in their bedroom, their two young daughters asleep in their beds. Matt calls 91 1.

[911 Operator]

Are you in there with her right now? Is she conscious? No, she's breathing. Did you see what happened to her? No, no, no, no. I do not know. The ambulance is on the way. Okay. Are you up beside her right now?

[Matt Baker]

Yes.

[Reporter]

Matt had been beside his wife. Carrie says they met at a Baptist summer camp and fell in love.

[Matt Baker]

I was the assistant director and she was one of the camp counselors. And from day one, we kind of hit it off.

[Joanne Bristol]

Terry fell head over heels. She told the family that she'd met a good Christian boy and she'd fallen in love.

[Carrie Baker]

Her faith was the core of who she was. And so it was very important to her that she found someone whose faith. Faith was aligned with hers.

[Joanne Bristol]

Matt grew up in Kerrville. He too came from a very religious family.

[Carrie Baker]

Carrie. She was always the bubbly little blond and just loved life. People were drawn to Carrie. She was so funny. And when Carrie Laughed. She laughed with her whole body. Everyone in the room just could feel her because she was just so free spirited.

[Matt Baker]

I don't think there was ever a question Carrie was right or not right. For me, it was. We moved fast. We met in May and married in August.

[Carrie Baker]

We tried to talk Carrie into waiting a little longer. And she really did not want to. Carrie was looking for a husband with morals and values that were seen similar to what she had. And Matt, she believed, had those.

[Narrator]

That.

[Matt Baker]

You may fear the Lord your God to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command you.

[Carrie Baker]

She was marrying a Baptist minister. How good is that? You couldn't pick a better guy than Matt Baker. Can you say Merry Christmas now?

[Matt Baker]

Here, take your password out. Say Christmas.

[Carrie Baker]

Can you give a kiss?

[Joanne Bristol]

The kids came quickly. Oh, they look like this perfect young couple with this beautiful baby.

[Carrie Baker]

Carrie wanted children. She always had. And she was a wonderful mother. She's still so pink.

[Joanne Bristol]

And then Cassidy came. It looked to the outside world like everything was just coming together. For the Bakers, if you know our children.

[Matt Baker]

My wife, Carrie. And it's special for me to do this because it is. They are my children and our children. Cassidy.

[Narrator]

Hi.

[Reporter]

But it was just after Cassidy's first birthday when the family was dealt some heartbreaking news about her.

[Joanne Bristol]

It turned out that she had a brain tumor. Carrie was devastated, absolutely devastated.

[Carrie Baker]

We went to Cook Children's Hospital in Fort Worth.

[Matt Baker]

It was a scary time. And she struggled in pediatric ICU for 60 days. I started chemotherapy on her.

[Joanne Bristol]

They didn't know if she would make it through, but she did.

[Matt Baker]

You get to bring her home. That was one of the happiest days.

[Joanne Bristol]

She needed a lot of care when she came home, but she was expected to recover.

[Carrie Baker]

The 71st annual Academy Awards.

[Matt Baker]

The Academy Awards were playing that night, and I remember staying up watching that. I went in and checked on Cassidy and she was fine. I gave her a kiss and said a prayer, checked on their older sister, kissed her, said a prayer and went to bed.

[Joanne Bristol]

A little while later, he got back up and went and checked on her a second time. This time he started screaming. Carrie jumped up, ran into the room, found Cassidy, and she wasn't breathing at all.

[Matt Baker]

I yell at my wife as I'm taking her out of the bed and I put her on the floor and I begin CPR. She calls 911.

[Joanne Bristol]

They brought Cassidy to the hospital, but they weren't able to save her. Cassidy died.

[Matt Baker]

I know we dealt with it differently. We would have discussions about it and pray about it, and it was a struggle.

[Joanne Bristol]

Carrie bled grief after Cassidy died, and.

[Reporter]

She was having a difficult time sleeping.

[Carrie Baker]

Carrie had been taking over the counter sleep aid since Cassidy died.

[Matt Baker]

She could not calm down at night without sleeping pills.

[Joanne Bristol]

She started writing journals and she just poured out incredible sorrow. She thought she saw Cassidy wherever she went.

[Carrie Baker]

It was horrible. What helped Carrie, in addition to her faith and her family, was she saw a grief counselor for a year. She talked and talked things through.

[Joanne Bristol]

The death of a child always puts a terrible strain on a marriage. Carrie really fought to keep that marriage together. She loved Matt. She wanted it to work out.

[Carrie Baker]

I just told Carrie that Men and women often grieve in different ways.

[Reporter]

In time, the Bakers and their daughter tried to move ahead with their lives.

[Joanne Bristol]

It was a year and a half after Cassidy's death. Carrie found out that she was pregnant. Carrie said that the baby was coming by the grace of God.

[Matt Baker]

There was definitely a fear in my wife that I had not seen before. A fear of, what if I lost one? What if we lose another one? I can't handle that.

[Carrie Baker]

She loved her girls and she was so strong for them. Cassidy's life was cut short, but she had them.

[Joanne Bristol]

The four of them look like this perfect little family. You would think, oh, look, they just have it all.

[911 Operator]

You mess with your emergency.

[Reporter]

Almost exactly seven years after the death of her daughter Cassidy, Carrie is now seemingly lifeless on their bedroom floor while her husband works to save her.

[911 Operator]

Do impressions for just keep doing compression.

[Joanne Bristol]

Waco is a great city. It's very religious. You can't walk a block without seeing a church.

[Vanessa Bowles]

It's small enough that most people are just a degree or two away from knowing everybody else.

[Narrator]

Hewitt, Texas, is a suburb of Waco. Back then, maybe 12,000 people. They have their own city government, police.

[Joanne Bristol]

And when Carrie and Matt moved, and they moved quickly became part of the community.

[Reporter]

But in early April 2006, right here in the heart of the Bible Belt, a chaotic scene is unfolding inside this house. Local pastor Matt Baker has arrived home to find his wife Carrie unresponsive in their bedroom.

[911 Operator]

And what's the problem? Tell me exactly what happened. My wife is laying in the bed and her lips are blue, hands. Is she conscious? No, she's breathing?

[Matt Baker]

No, no, no, she's not breathing at all.

[911 Operator]

No pulse or anything.

[Matt Baker]

I put my head to her chest and didn't see or feel her chest rising. No air coming out. Felt for pulse? Nothing.

[911 Operator]

Okay, listen carefully. I need you to get her laying flat on her back on the ground and remove any pillows, okay? Okay. Put her on the floor, on the bed.

[Reporter]

Now.

[Matt Baker]

Put her on the floor.

[911 Operator]

All right. She needs to be on the floor. Yes, sir.

[Carrie Baker]

Okay.

[911 Operator]

Okay.

[Joanne Bristol]

The 911 operator tells Matt to do CPR, to put carry on the floor and start CPR.

[911 Operator]

Do that and tell me when you're done. Okay, hold on. Okay, hold on.

[Carrie Baker]

Oh, my.

[Matt Baker]

Okay, hold on, hold on. I did not want the EMTs to come in and see her naked. And so I put her clothes on her for her. And as I'm taking her off the bed, fluid comes out of her mouth onto the floor, and it smells of alcohol.

[911 Operator]

You're gonna push down firmly 2 inches with only your lower hand touching her chest. You're gonna do it fast and hard 400 times. 400? 400 times. It's the latest we've been instructed to do. Okay, 400 twice per second. Rest at all after the 400.

[Reporter]

Correct.

[911 Operator]

It's gonna be about twice per second. It'll take you about three and a half minutes to do it. Okay, so start right now. I'll tell you when to stop. All right.

[Reporter]

While on the phone, Matt asks the 911 operator to call Carrie's parents because he says his daughters are also in the house.

[911 Operator]

I need to get a hold of her parents. They live in town, and I want them to come over and be with the kids. Get somebody else started on this. Okay, thank you. Thank you, thank you.

[Carrie Baker]

We received a phone call from the 911 operator telling us that we needed to get over to my daughter's house, that there had been and an accident. We needed to get over there immediately.

[911 Operator]

Oh, she's got foam or something coming out of her nose. Okay, someone's at the front door. I gotta go. Okay, go ahead. All right.

[Michael Irvin]

My name is Michael Irvin. I was a patrol officer with the city of Hewitt. And at that time, I had only had about six months of actual law enforcement experience. That was the first officer to respond to the house. There was actually an EMT that met me in the front yard. Matt Baker actually met us outside and then walked us in. And he took us straight into the bedroom where his wife was at.

[Joanne Bristol]

The EMTs go in, and they find Carrie on the floor. She's wearing a T shirt and a pair of underpants.

[Matt Baker]

And they come in, and I step away and let them start working.

[Michael Irvin]

There was a glass there that was actually still cold, if I remember correctly, which led into his account of what happened then.

[Reporter]

It'd been a typical Friday night that Matt says started with him and Carrie sharing a drink before heading to the local Y.

[Matt Baker]

We had a wine cooler that I purchased and so she drank one, I drank one. We take our oldest daughter to swim practice that night. On the way, my wife started saying her stomach was hurting her. She just felt nauseated, wasn't feeling very good.

[Reporter]

After the family returns home, Matt says Carrie still wasn't feeling well. And after taking a bath, she heads to bed while he starts the bedtime rituals with her daughters.

[Matt Baker]

It's a Friday night, so they could stay up later. They could stay up until 10 o'clock watching TV. Came back, laid down with my wife. She's still in bed, half asleep, and she wants another drink. She has a drink, I have one too. She goes to sleep, wakes up at about 11 o'clock and asks me to go get a movie. And I was like, It's 11:00. She goes, well, go get this movie for me and gas up because we have a busy day tomorrow.

[Michael Irvin]

He left to go get a movie while he was gone, came back and he discovered that he couldn't get back in.

[Matt Baker]

Walk to the bedroom door and it's closed. And I try the knob and it's locked. And I knock on it and call her name, Carrie. Carrie. And there's no response.

[Reporter]

Matt says he finds a small screwdriver to try to open the door.

[Matt Baker]

So I pop the lock and open the door and find her in bed. And it was very eerily similar to walking in the room when I found Cassidy.

[Reporter]

As EMTs in the Baker residence work on Carrie, police take note of those wine coolers on the bedside table. And something else.

[Joanne Bristol]

There was this bottle of unisom that it was almost empty.

[Matt Baker]

She had been taking sleeping pills to go to sleep since Cassidy passed away and started taking more and more of them. And we had discussions that you've got to stop doing this is too many, this can be dangerous.

[Carrie Baker]

We ran out of the car and as I started running up to the front of the house, an EMT person stood in front of me and grabbed me and told me that. That my daughter was dead. I just kept saying, there's no way.

[Michael Irvin]

There's a piece of paper on the end table. And something didn't sit right for me. It all pointed back to that note.

[Reporter]

A frenzied scene has been unfolding in the middle of the night at the Baker's home. Matt Baker's wife is dead.

[Joanne Bristol]

And there's a note on the bedside table. There's a suicide note.

[Matt Baker]

That was the first time that the word suicide entered my mind. I had no idea at that moment. What had happened.

[Michael Irvin]

In the note, there was reference to Cassidy. Matt explained to me that Cassidy was their daughter. And it's a very difficult time for Carrie because of the anniversary of Cassidy passing away. The first person I remember showing up after me, I explained all the things that Matt had showed me, and I took a step back.

[Joanne Bristol]

In Texas, in small counties where they don't have medical examiners, the justices of the peace decide what happens when there's an unexplained or a sudden death.

[Michael Irvin]

I do remember in that phone call, it was Judge Martin.

[Joanne Bristol]

They told him they had a suicide note and they had alcohol and that they had pills. And Billy Martin did not order an autopsy.

[Narrator]

It was classified as a suicide based on the preliminary investigation and what they saw at the scene.

[Michael Irvin]

Police involvement at that point is done.

[Reporter]

Carrie Baker's family and her church community are shocked by her suicide.

[Carrie Baker]

I hurt for her. I hurt that someone hurt enough that they made that choice. We're just trying to put one foot in front of the other and get through this. This is.

[Reporter]

Less than one week after Carrie's funeral. Pastor Matt Baker is back at the pulpit here at Crossroads Baptist, delivering the Easter sermon. He tells his congregation that just like Jesus, Carrie has risen up to heaven.

[Joanne Bristol]

There was always the desire in her to be with a daughter that was in heaven now. And she did voice that several times.

[Carrie Baker]

That Cassidy needed her.

[Joanne Bristol]

She needed Cassidy.

[Matt Baker]

This was my wife's Bible that she carried for years.

[Joanne Bristol]

Matt had given her a Bible years earlier, and she started writing her feelings in the margins.

[Matt Baker]

She says, I want to go with Cassidy. She could never let go of Cassidy. It was such a strong hold on her.

[Reporter]

The week Carrie died, she had a session with her grief counselor and also saw a doctor who prescribed her medication.

[Matt Baker]

The next day, she ripped up the prescription. She wouldn't fill it.

[Carrie Baker]

After finding out Carrie died, I had talked to my sister Kay. I just kept saying, there's no way.

[Linda Doolin]

Carrie would never take her own life.

[Carrie Baker]

And then that's when she told me about a visit she got from Joanne.

[Reporter]

Joanne Bristol is Carrie's grief counselor and also friends with Carrie's aunt, Kay Bailey.

[Linda Doolin]

She had had a session with Carrie earlier that week. She had shared with me what Carrie had shared with her, that Carrie found some crushed pills in Matt's briefcase.

[Reporter]

Joanne Bristol also shared that detail and others with police in the days following Carrie's death.

[Carrie Baker]

My sister Kay and I, we all started talking. Not around Linda. We all were sitting there going, what are we going to do? Because we knew so much about Matt we worked at a church camp together. Matt, I believe, had been written up at that particular camp for harassing girls that I went to school with.

[Reporter]

There was also an alleged incident from his college days involving a fellow student.

[Laura Wilson]

I was afraid of him. I was angry with him. He took away virtually my young adulthood.

[Reporter]

Laura Wilson filed a complaint against Matt, saying he sexually assaulted her.

[Laura Wilson]

We were both student trainers for the athletic department. He was a sophomore trainer and I was a freshman trainer.

[Joanne Bristol]

She was cleaning the bathrooms. Matt came in and offered to help.

[Laura Wilson]

He came up behind me and he pinned my arms behind my back and started trying to kiss me. I kept telling him to stop. He came up from behind me, picked me up, sat me on his lap, and he began running his hand between my legs. I was struggling to get away. He didn't stop with the kiss. He didn't stop with the touching until he was ready to stop. Now I'm left with myself, violated, in shock, not knowing what to do.

[Matt Baker]

All I can tell you is when she left the facility, was in tears.

[Laura Wilson]

But nothing that I did after the assault happened. His words to me were, I never meant to hurt you.

[Reporter]

At the time, Laura told a college staffer about the alleged assault. Matt was not disciplined.

[Laura Wilson]

I dropped out, dealt with reoccurring nightmares, dealt with trust issues in relationships. It derailed my life for many, many years. I became a different person.

[Reporter]

She eventually filed a report with police. Years later, they began looking into the allegations, but stopped once they realized the statute of limitations had passed. Matt Baker denies assaulting Laura or or harassing any female campers.

[Matt Baker]

Things have been said that can be misconstrued, misinterpreted, but I can say this. I never accosted anybody.

[Reporter]

Throughout Matt and Carrie's marriage, rumors of alleged inappropriate sexual behavior would continue to follow the preacher, but his wife stood by him.

[Joanne Bristol]

She loved Matt. When Carrie heard allegations that Matt had been inappropriate with young women, she was his staunchest defender. She told one young woman, when you marry a Baptist preacher, women are going to come forward and make false allegations and you have to protect him.

[Carrie Baker]

Carrie believed him, and we believed Carrie. She was telling us the truth as she knew it.

[Joanne Bristol]

I think there's a presumption with a man of God that they have a certain character and a certain ethical base. And we believe that.

[Reporter]

Linda's sisters had hoped that by talking to her about the various past allegations against Matt, she might start to see him in a different light. But she didn't. She still had faith in her son in law.

[Carrie Baker]

My sisters came over and I told them. Let's just grieve and let this go.

[Reporter]

But the family wouldn't let it go.

[Carrie Baker]

It started with the cell phone records.

[Reporter]

And Linda soon makes a startling discovery.

[Carrie Baker]

Something wasn't right.

[Laura Wilson]

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[Carrie Baker]

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[Laura Wilson]

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[Carrie Baker]

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[Laura Wilson]

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[Reporter]

Over the years since her daughter Cassidy's death, Carrie Baker was in and out of counseling dealing with her grief, especially around the time of year when Cassidy died.

[Matt Baker]

Anytime you got close to the anniversary of the death of Cassidy or her birthday or holidays, there was definitely a deep sadness.

[Joanne Bristol]

But there was more going on that year. There was the fact that she was uncertain about her relationship with Matt. She sensed that something was very wrong. After Carrie's death, Linda's sisters sat down with Linda and said, we don't believe that Carrie committed suicide.

[Reporter]

While Linda may have still been processing her daughter's loss, her family's emotions had quickly turned to suspicion.

[Carrie Baker]

I remember Nancy saying, linda, have you ever considered that perhaps Carrie didn't take her life? I remember stammering and saying, what are you talking about, murder? We don't think Carrie killed herself. We know she didn't.

[Reporter]

The family decides to tell Linda what they say they learned from Carrie's therapist.

[Linda Doolin]

Carrie had shared with her that she'd found some crushed pills in Matt's briefcase and she was afraid that Matt might possibly try to kill kill her.

[Joanne Bristol]

She said, I think Matt's trying to kill me. And then she started laughing and she said, oh no, Matt would never do that.

[Linda Doolin]

But at the same time, I thought this would make more sense because I knew that Carrie would never take her own life.

[Matt Baker]

I think if truly Carrie went and said that and was fearful for her life, the counselor should have done more and didn't. Looking back, I think it was a scream, the first scream in a series of screams that took place that week of I'm hurting more than you think I am.

[Carrie Baker]

Murder. I mean, that's just not something that I could wrap my head around. I needed time to think, to process. This was too difficult for me to be able to discuss.

[Reporter]

But then, shortly after Carrie's death, Linda says she began to notice Matt was keeping her granddaughters away from her. No more babysitting, no more invitations to school events.

[Joanne Bristol]

At that point, she started to feel a little different. What was going on here, and why was this happening?

[Reporter]

Linda remembers Matt and Carrie's cell phones were part of her family plan. So she decides to have a look at the phone bill.

[Joanne Bristol]

The first really odd thing she noticed was that Matt had continued to call Carrie's cell phone weeks after Carrie had died. It made no sense at all. And then it all started to click. Matt's giving Carrie's phone to someone.

[Carrie Baker]

And I think you said, calling all angels, but we all went over to your house. You said, let's. We need to get together and talk.

[Joanne Bristol]

At that point, Linda started to think that maybe her sisters were right and maybe they really did need to look into this.

[Carrie Baker]

It started with the cell phone, and I immediately figured out it was Vanessa Bowles.

[Joanne Bristol]

Vanessa Bowles was the daughter of the music minister at Crossroads Church, where Matt was the preacher.

[Matt Baker]

The relationship really started between my wife and her. They became friends.

[Joanne Bristol]

Vanessa had a little girl that reminded Carrie of the baby she had lost.

[Matt Baker]

There were only three young families in the church that had small children. So we naturally just kind of congregated together because we had similar interests. We were friends.

[Reporter]

Vanessa would later describe in a recorded interview how she says the friendship evolved.

[Laura Wilson]

So I just got divorced, and it was nice to have someone, you know, to talk to, you know, who was in the pastoral position.

[Reporter]

And she gives her explanation of why she has Carrie's phone.

[Laura Wilson]

We were starting to talk and become friends. Then I said, don't call my cell because my mom pays for my meds and I don't want to run over during the day. I've done that many times before. And he's like, well, I just. I still have Carrie's phone, so I can get that team.

[Reporter]

Maybe Matt was simply seeking comfort in the friendship of a fellow churchgoer. But for Linda, those phone bills had set off alarm bells.

[Joanne Bristol]

Linda went to the Hewitt police department. She showed them the phone bills, but they weren't interested. This was a Dunn case. It was over as far as they were concerned.

[Carrie Baker]

That's when Linda said, I need my angels over here. I would email them. I would go, good morning, angel. She would always tell us, you need to do this. And reassignment for doing investigating, we did.

[Linda Doolin]

It was nonstop all the time.

[Joanne Bristol]

The assignments Linda gave out involved going through the garbage.

[Reporter]

And Charlie was doing some digging right alongside her. Angels as well. She researched whether overdosing on a sleep aid could have really killed Carrie. And she questioned Matt about those alleged crushed pills.

[Carrie Baker]

I talked to Matt about the crushed pills.

[Matt Baker]

My wife said she found him in my briefcase when she was looking for a pen. She said, well, did a kid where you work put him in your bag?

[Reporter]

Matt claims that unknown to him, some kids at work may have been spitting out pills into his briefcase.

[Joanne Bristol]

But that seemed odd because the pills didn't look like they'd been spit out.

[Carrie Baker]

What he said couldn't have happened.

[Reporter]

And so Kay called Judge Billy Martin to find out why he had ruled Carrie's death a suicide.

[Linda Doolin]

I talked to him about the suicide note and he mentioned it being signed. And I said it was not. And he goes, well, you need to talk to the police. I said, we've already done this and we just want somebody to investigate it more.

[Carrie Baker]

And it was about that time where Matt's story no longer made sense. There were inconsistencies, outright lies, and we needed more answers.

[Reporter]

So following the family's urging, police bring Pastor Matt Baker in for questioning.

[Narrator]

Well, I just want to sit and talk to me. Questions needed to be asked and questions needed to be answered.

[Reporter]

31 year old Carrie Baker has been found dead in her home. It was deemed a suicide by police, but her family began investigating on their own. And they urged police to question her husband, Preacher Matt Baker.

[Narrator]

I just want to sit and talk to him, you know, I just want to talk about what happened. Absolutely. That way we can clear all this up because I'm sure you know what I'm getting at.

[Carrie Baker]

Okay.

[Narrator]

As far as you know, Linda, you know what I'm saying?

[Matt Baker]

It was a very odd, odd week. I mean, but not behavior that would have raised red flags, if that makes sense. You know, it was one of those deals that I knew she was depressed.

[Reporter]

The conversation continues with Matt sharing his own view on what he believes might have happened.

[Matt Baker]

I left about 11 or so. I wasn't gone maybe 40 minutes.

[Narrator]

You left the house and went down to the gas station.

[Matt Baker]

That wasn't even gone long at all.

[Carrie Baker]

Okay.

[Matt Baker]

And so, and that was, and that was the strange thing about it is I, I question where she would have taken the medicine personally. This is my opinion. I don't think the medicine is what killed her. I think she Threw up into her mouth, but was knocked out enough and choked on it. So now I don't know if that's just me trying to put stuff together to make it, you know, I don't know.

[Narrator]

Okay. Like I said, I just wanted to sit and holler at you about one last thing, you know, to kind of quell everything. If I asked you to take a polygraph test, would you be willing to do so?

[911 Operator]

Okay.

[Reporter]

Matt eventually passes a polygraph arranged by his attorney. Upset that police continue to consider Carrie's death a suicide, Linda pulls together a team of her own.

[Joanne Bristol]

Linda ended up making an appointment to talk to a former federal prosecutor, now in private practice.

[Reporter]

Bill Johnston had been a federal prosecutor in Waco, Texas. The Branch Davidian complex in Waco, Texas, goes up in flames.

[Carrie Baker]

Eleven of the survivors now face murder.

[Joanne Bristol]

And conspiracy charges in connection with the.

[Linda Doolin]

Killing of four federal agents.

[Reporter]

And in 1993, he was part of the team prosecuting the 11 survivors. Branch Davidians.

[Vanessa Bowles]

Those agents did not die in vain. Mrs. Doolan came to me and she said, I've heard maybe you can help me.

[Reporter]

She explained to Bill that she doesn't believe her daughter took her own life. So she'd been working on Carrie's case with her Angels.

[Vanessa Bowles]

What Charlie's Angels were bringing to us was invaluable. They were this group of strong women who were not going to just let this go. They brought a series of stories about Matt's conduct at different points in his life.

[Joanne Bristol]

Bill pulled together his own posse. He brought together retired lawmen to take over this investigation.

[Carrie Baker]

I called them my guys, and they became as invested in this case as if they were fighting for their own child.

[Joanne Bristol]

The biggest thing was to get the body exhumed, get an actual auto autopsy, and find out what had actually happened to Carrie Baker, how she'd actually died.

[Narrator]

We started unraveling this thing bit by bit by bit.

[Reporter]

Matt Coffon is a member of the legendary Texas Rangers. He joins the team and reviews the evidence on the case.

[Narrator]

There are red flag after red flag that something was not right. It was so compelling that. That I could not automatically agree with the Hewitt police investigation. So I thought, okay, let's. Let's kind of break it down.

[Reporter]

You're presented with a crime scene that's not really a crime scene. Right.

[Narrator]

These are photographs. As you can tell, there's just not much to them. There were so many things early on in this investigation that just did not match. And part of it was Matt Baker's explanation of his timeline.

[Reporter]

He says he left and then he came back and it was such a short time that she couldn't have died within that period.

[Narrator]

That was the theory that we were operating on. His timetable did not really match up. This is an overall view of Hewitt, Texas, and it's not large.

[Reporter]

These locations are very close to each.

[Narrator]

I mean, it's a part, especially that time of night.

[Reporter]

The team was also troubled by Carrie's suicide note, which Officer Michael Irving says was pointed out by Matt.

[Michael Irvin]

He just said there's a suicide note. Suicide note, Suicide note. So he did direct me straight to note.

[Vanessa Bowles]

The so called suicide note was typed.

[Narrator]

It's not signed. And that should be a red flag to any investigator. Let's take this a little bit further. It says, tell my mom and dad that I love them too. In this case too, is T o not comma T o o.

[Reporter]

She was a teacher. She could spell.

[Narrator]

Yes.

[Michael Irvin]

Something didn't set right. And for me, it all pointed back to that note, that suicide note. I didn't speak up at that time. I'd been a police officer for six months. If I could go and turn back time, there are a lot of things I would have done differently.

[Reporter]

Was there an autopsy done?

[Narrator]

Initially, there was no autopsy done. And so at this point we decided that we needed to have tissue samples from Carrie's body. So we wanted to have that body exhumed.

[Reporter]

At the time of the Hewitt police investigation, they concluded Carrie had died by suicide of over the counter sleep medication.

[Joanne Bristol]

One of the tasks that Linda took on for herself was investigating unisom. She found that it would have taken a great deal to have caused Carrie's death and that she wouldn't have died quickly.

[Narrator]

We came up with clues that made us believe that perhaps there were prescription medications given to her without her knowledge.

[Reporter]

Nearly four months after Carrie's death, the Texas Rangers in conjunction with Hewitt Police, are able to get Judge Martin to sign an order allowing for the exhumation of Carrie's body.

[Narrator]

As we gathered information from various sources determined too, you know, we need to go that route. By this time, we were working pretty closely with a detective at the Hewitt Police Department.

[Joanne Bristol]

It was critical that they had an autopsy.

[Narrator]

We had a lot of circumstantial evidence, but we needed some scientific evidence, something that a prosecutor can hold in their hands and say, okay, now we may have something here.

[Reporter]

What else? What? The Charlie's Angels of Waco and their.

[Narrator]

Investigative team learned a photograph was found on Matt Baker's computer. He tried to delete it.

[Linda Doolin]

We didn't know if she might have even been involved.

[Reporter]

Was Carrie's death a terrible tragedy or something much more sinister?

[Laura Wilson]

A manipulative liar wearing the mask of God came into my life.

[Linda Doolin]

A Hewitt preacher's wife was found dead. Her death originally ruled a suicide, but is that how the mother of two really died?

[Reporter]

Maybe someone that held that coarse material against her nose?

[Joanne Bristol]

I think Carrie, on some level, understood that she was in danger.

[Reporter]

But you also discover in that Bible, lord, I'm asking you to protect me from harm.

[Narrator]

He's having a conversation with the 911 operator, and he's not winded, and he's perfectly calm while he's talking. I'm gonna tell you right now, I don't think it happened that way.

[Carrie Baker]

You don't quickly dress a dead body.

[Reporter]

Here's a picture of Matt Baker. Is this the other woman?

[Laura Wilson]

I'm gonna tell him what you did. And he said, you better not do that.

[Joanne Bristol]

Sometimes faith can be used to manipulate and to control people.

[Vanessa Bowles]

Preachers, the good ones are great. The bad ones have the most power of anybody.

[Joanne Bristol]

Here they were, the police in the home of a Baptist minister with a suicide note and sleeping pills and a bottle of alcohol. Well, the police at that point aren't thinking murder. They're thinking that Carrie committed suicide.

[Reporter]

Texas pastor Matt Baker had lost a young daughter years earlier. He now appears to be facing yet another tragedy, the suicide of his wife, Carrie. But her family isn't buying it.

[Linda Doolin]

I knew that Carrie would never take her own life.

[Carrie Baker]

We will fight for the truth.

[Reporter]

Could Carrie have been murdered? The Hewitt police, now collaborating with Texas Ranger Matt Cawthon, who's been working with Carrie's family, obtained an order to exhume Carrie's body. And the autopsy results are now in.

[Vanessa Bowles]

In her muscle tissue, there was a presence of Ambien, and that was huge.

[Reporter]

Huge. And at the time of her death, she didn't have a prescription for Ambien.

[Narrator]

No.

[Reporter]

The autopsy now lists Carrie's manner of death as undetermined.

[Vanessa Bowles]

Now you're in undetermined land. Now you're in a mystery. Now let's solve the mystery.

[Reporter]

Bill Johnston and his. Continue to dig. Now, taking a closer look at those few crime scene photos. What's this?

[Narrator]

This is a picture of Carrie's arm. And what you're seeing here is you're seeing the beginning of lividity, the purplish color from the pooling of the blood. You know, when the heart pumps, it pumps through the veins and the arteries. When the heart stops, everything settles to its lowest point. It's gravity we have Levi set in in the body, and that takes time. And this was a problem with the. With Bill Johnson and his team.

[Vanessa Bowles]

And so we found the person who wrote the book on crime scene reconstruction, Tom Bevel.

[Narrator]

The first responders from the medical field are saying that lividity either was setting in or set which in that time frame. That's a problem.

[Reporter]

So this is their home right there, right?

[Narrator]

Yeah, this is their home. So if he leaves his house at 11:45 to 55 minutes later, lividity could not have been set in as it was in the photographs. All right.

[Reporter]

Cawthon and the team believe that Cary was likely dead before Matt Baker left his home. So if Carrie's suicide was a homicide, how was she killed? The photograph showed something more.

[Narrator]

In one of the photographs, there is a small abrasion, that is to the bridge of her nose. We surmised that this was very likely done using a throw pillow off of a couch. It was kind of a coarse material that very likely could have caused an.

[Reporter]

Abrasion, indicating that maybe someone had held that coarse material against her nose.

[Narrator]

That's right.

[Reporter]

The abrasion on Carrie's nose, it's not noted in the autopsy, but the presence of the generic form of Ambien is. So Bill Johnston wants to look into Matt's digital trail. He sues Matt for wrongful death and obtains access to his computer records.

[Joanne Bristol]

A month before Kerry's death, they discovered Matt was on the computer searching for the term overdose by sleeping pills.

[Matt Baker]

I did search that. I did research to see can you overdose? Is that even a possibility? That I need to worry about my wife overdosing on sleeping pills?

[Joanne Bristol]

As they continued to go through the computer, they found where he tried to buy Ambien, had moved it into a cart to purchase it.

[Vanessa Bowles]

And that bit of forensics in the computers now hard linked into the toxicology forensics, our theory became, hmm, The Ambien in the wine cooler. He got her sleepy with that so he could later suffocate her. That was our theory.

[Reporter]

And remember those writings in Carrie's Bible about Cassidy? Well, those were written years earlier. But there was a recent troubling entry dated just five days before Carrie's death, which says. I feel like I have so much worry. Lord, I'm asking you to protect me from harm. I am not sure what is going on, on with Matt. What did that indicate?

[Narrator]

It's ominous. It's almost like she is afraid of him.

[Vanessa Bowles]

Looking back on it, they were predictive.

[Joanne Bristol]

I think Carrie on some level understood that she was in danger and she didn't realize that at that point that he was involved with somebody else.

[Narrator]

During this investigation, we got a clue from a woman who worked in a jewelry store and said within a couple of weeks after Carrie's death, Matt Baker comes into the jewelry store with a woman and they're looking at engagement rings.

[Matt Baker]

No, we were not. One of our rules for our kids was when they turn six years old, they can get earrings. And so we began looking for jewelry. Earrings.

[Reporter]

Here's a picture of Matt Baker. Is this the other woman?

[Narrator]

This is Vanessa Bulls. She was the other woman. Now this is a photograph that we found on his computer in trash.

[Carrie Baker]

We knew there was going to be a birthday party and we took a picture of all the girls and Matt and Vanessa.

[Joanne Bristol]

It wasn't long after Carrie's death when people came over, they didn't see any pictures of Carrie at all. But there was a picture of Vanessa with the girls. Two of Carrie and Matt's friends came to help with the party and one of them stayed overnight. And she saw Matt sitting on the couch with Vanessa's head on his lap.

[Reporter]

To Carrie's family, it was clear that a romantic relationship had developed between Matt and Vanessa. Four months after Carrie's death, police believe Vanessa Boles just might be the key to solving this case. So they bring her to the Hewitt police station for questioning.

[Laura Wilson]

This is just scary.

[Carrie Baker]

Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same Premium Wireless for $15 a month plan that I've been enjoying. It's not just for celebrities. So do like I did and have.

[Laura Wilson]

One of your assistant's assistants switch you.

[Narrator]

To Mint Mobile today.

[Carrie Baker]

I'm told it's super easy to [e-mail] Switch upfront payment of $45 for 3.

[Laura Wilson]

Month plan equivalent to $15 per month required intro rate first, then full price plan options available.

[Carrie Baker]

Taxes and fees extra. See Full [e-mail] Don't miss Good American Family.

[Linda Doolin]

We have a little girl here for adoption.

[Carrie Baker]

She has dwarfism.

[Reporter]

Starring Ellen Pompeo and Mark Duplass.

[Carrie Baker]

Something is off. She's just a little girl. You think she's faking?

[Laura Wilson]

She has adult teeth. There are signs of puberty.

[Narrator]

Inspired by the shocking stories that Torah Family apart.

[Carrie Baker]

I don't know what's going on. How old are you?

[Narrator]

You should get a lawyer.

[Laura Wilson]

You have no idea how those people hurt this girl.

[Reporter]

The Hulu Original Series Good American Family.

[Narrator]

New episodes Wednesdays streaming on Hulu.

[Reporter]

Sorry Keep you waiting.

[Narrator]

Like I said, I'm gonna ask you some questions about that, Jerry.

[Carrie Baker]

Okay.

[Narrator]

This doesn't mean that you're.

[Carrie Baker]

I'm sorry.

[Laura Wilson]

This just scary.

[Reporter]

Four months after Carrie's death, Vanessa Bulls, the woman who appears to have become romantically involved with Matt Baker, is now sitting at the police station answering questions about how that relationship unfolded.

[Laura Wilson]

Every once in a while, he started calling just to chat, just kind of asking about my divorce and, you know, kind of saying how, like, God would work everything out.

[Reporter]

How long was that?

[Narrator]

That it took it to progress to him calling A couple times a day.

[Laura Wilson]

I want to say a couple of weeks. I'd be lying if I said it wasn't nice to. To have someone who, you know, had two daughters and would possibly, you know, be the dad to my child.

[Matt Baker]

Sure.

[Vanessa Bowles]

Having an affair that predated the killing, that would be big evidence.

[Reporter]

Did you ever meet him romantically?

[Laura Wilson]

No.

[Carrie Baker]

Never.

[Narrator]

Okay.

[Carrie Baker]

Okay.

[Laura Wilson]

After?

[Carrie Baker]

After.

[Laura Wilson]

Yes, after. After his wife passed away.

[Reporter]

Okay.

[911 Operator]

Okay.

[Laura Wilson]

Because I didn't think there Was anything wrong.

[Reporter]

2020 obtained emails never before broadcast that show Carrie and Matt's relationship unraveling in the weeks before Carrie's death. At the same time as Matt and Vanessa's phone calls start to heat up.

[Joanne Bristol]

She sensed that something was very wrong.

[Reporter]

In one of those emails, Matt blames Carrie for Cassidy's death, writing, you wanted her to be pain free, and then telling her your prayer was the one that was answered.

[Carrie Baker]

That made her angry and she was going to leave him. I suggested they get counsel back.

[Reporter]

In that police interview, Vanessa, who at this point had broken things off with Matt, seems open to believing he could have murdered Carrie.

[Narrator]

Do you think that he had anything to do with her death?

[Laura Wilson]

I think anything's possible.

[Linda Doolin]

Now, a Hewitt preacher's wife was found dead in her home. Her death originally ruled a suicide, but now, nearly a year and a half left later, a judge has set a hearing to try to determine if that is how the mother of two really died.

[Reporter]

A formal inquest into Carrie's death was held. But in the end, the justice of the peace who initially declared it a suicide made the same determination that the autopsy had made a year earlier, that.

[Narrator]

Carrie Lynn Baker's manner and cause of death shall be recorded as undetermined.

[Reporter]

So what do you do?

[Narrator]

And at some point, we have to do what we think is right. And in this case, it was to get a arrest warrant for Matt Baker.

[Reporter]

Even though it wasn't ruled a homicide. Nearly a year and a half after Carrie's death, Matt Baker is Arrested for.

[Carrie Baker]

Her murder, Matt Baker is accused of.

[Laura Wilson]

Drugging his wife Carrie, with sleeping pills and then suffocating her with a pillow.

[Joanne Bristol]

There's no way that he could take a life.

[Carrie Baker]

I know my sons, and I just.

[Joanne Bristol]

Don'T believe he could do that.

[Narrator]

And we have breaking news for you.

[Reporter]

Now from the McLennan County Jail.

[Laura Wilson]

Matt Baker could be released anytime now. His $200,000 bond has been paid in cash.

[Matt Baker]

My best decision was to move away from there and to move back here to my hometown, where I felt support and felt loved.

[Reporter]

And it's In Kerrville, about 200 miles from Hewitt, that our cameras catch up with Matt and his daughters.

[Matt Baker]

This is a little bit of everything. They have a cafe where they take flowers and they crush them up and pretend it's chicken noodle soup.

[Carrie Baker]

Don't be embarrassed.

[Reporter]

2020 gets a glimpse of life with their father.

[Matt Baker]

Everything to do is play with my dad.

[Reporter]

After losing their mother, each have their.

[Matt Baker]

Own, you know, and they separate pants from shirts.

[Carrie Baker]

I pick mine, and then he picks.

[Matt Baker]

Hers, But I have to okay hers. Yes.

[Linda Doolin]

Why?

[Matt Baker]

Because she likes spaghetti straps, but I.

[Carrie Baker]

Don'T wear them to school.

[Linda Doolin]

I'm not allowed.

[Joanne Bristol]

During this last year, he was a.

[Carrie Baker]

Single parent working and taking care of his girls. They emotionally attach to the dad very strongly.

[Joanne Bristol]

The younger one especially.

[Matt Baker]

This is my favorite toy because it used to be my dad's when he.

[Joanne Bristol]

Was a little kid. Once Matt was released, he went on kind of a press tour.

[Narrator]

He tried to tell the world his side of the story.

[Vanessa Bowles]

Would Matt Baker have the nerve to actually interview for and do a photo shoot with Texas Monthly? Yes, he would.

[Joanne Bristol]

Pretty much anybody who wanted to talk with him. Matt Baker had an open door.

[Carrie Baker]

Tonight on 20 20. Was it suicide or murder?

[Reporter]

The story goes national, and Matt Baker sits down with 2020 for an interview. He proclaims his innocence and denies he had an affair with Vanessa Bulls.

[Matt Baker]

It was a. It was a very good friend, but there's nothing there now. I don't believe in adultery. I don't believe in divorce.

[Joanne Bristol]

The problem was that for him was that he changed his story a little bit every time he gave one.

[Reporter]

Matt tells 2020 that it was the police who found that suicide note.

[Matt Baker]

One of the police officers found it and handed it to me, and I held it in my hands for a brief moment, and I looked at the first line, and I handed it back.

[Reporter]

And said, I can't read it right now, but listen. As Matt refers to that suicide note in his 911 call, my wife is.

[911 Operator]

Laying in the bed and her lips are blue, hands are cold, and there's a note that says, I'm sorry.

[Matt Baker]

Basically, there's no way I could ever have hurt my wife. I loved her. She's the mother of my children and I miss her and I did not hurt my wife.

[Narrator]

We felt validated with the arrest, but I'm going to tell you right now, all the arrests in the world mean nothing without a good prosecution. The Texas Rangers made an arrest on the case and the case was then transferred to our office. And I believed that Matt had killed Carrie, but I didn't feel like that. We had the proof to take it to a trial and get a conviction.

[Linda Doolin]

If you get an acquittal, it's over.

[Reporter]

Six months after Matt Baker's arrest, the murder charge is dismissed after prosecutors failed to indict him.

[Carrie Baker]

It was frustrating, but, I mean, we knew it would take time and we weren't going to stop.

[Joanne Bristol]

People started running around town with bumper stickers that said, justice for Carrie, Love, Trust. Trump's evil was underneath it.

[Carrie Baker]

We had truth on our side, we had God on our side, we had Bill Johnston, and we were going to continue civilly.

[Vanessa Bowles]

His story was not adding up anymore. You wouldn't have left those two girls there if you didn't think it was safe.

[Reporter]

And would Matt's account of what he says he did when he found Carrie check out?

[Narrator]

He's not winded and he's perfectly calm while he's talking. I'm gonna tell you right now, I don't think it happened that way, John. I just don't.

[Joanne Bristol]

When the criminal case was stalled and it wasn't going forward, Bill Johnston filed a wrongful death case and that allowed him to subpoena Matt Baker for a deposition.

[Reporter]

Two and a half years after the death of his wife, Matt Baker is on the hot seat, answering questions under oath about the night she died.

[Matt Baker]

About 10:45ish, a little before 11:00, she asked me if I could run a couple of errands.

[Vanessa Bowles]

Had she sort of refreshed herself and gotten awake and got forward thinking by that time?

[Joanne Bristol]

Not.

[Matt Baker]

I mean, it was still kind of that half awake, just talking, but still kind of real drowsy.

[Vanessa Bowles]

I'm conjecturing that it went through his mind that maybe she already took all the sleeping pills before he left. Was she aware enough that you could observe that she could handle if the kids needed her, for instance?

[Matt Baker]

I would have, yeah. I felt that she probably could.

[Vanessa Bowles]

She had to be fine or else she was incapacitated and he was a bad father. And he just left his girls with an incapacitated person. Which one isn't Matt. So he chose the high room that, yes, Carrie was fine. So if Carrie's fine, she's not getting ready to die.

[Narrator]

Bill was able to ask him question after question after question and get answers from him that were very helpful.

[Vanessa Bowles]

While you have the phone pressed against your shoulder, you put on her panties first, is that correct?

[Matt Baker]

I believe that's right.

[Vanessa Bowles]

And then what did you do?

[Matt Baker]

And I put on her shirt.

[Joanne Bristol]

Okay.

[Vanessa Bowles]

And she's on the bed at this time.

[Matt Baker]

Correct.

[Reporter]

But Matt had told police a different version of how he dressed Carrie that night.

[Matt Baker]

I put the panties on her in the bed as I was getting her out. And then when she was on the floor and put a shirt on.

[Narrator]

The clothing, it appears consistent, especially her panties, as to how you would typically find if they were put on by the individual, not somebody else. With a lady who is not able to assist.

[Vanessa Bowles]

If you would lie about dressing her.

[Narrator]

Why?

[Vanessa Bowles]

And he wanted to explain their body was cold by saying she was nude on top of the bed. As if she would have aired out, cooled off, Just a stick figure put where she came to rest once you moved. How difficult was that to move her?

[Matt Baker]

I guess at the time, you don't even think about it. You just do what you have to do.

[Reporter]

We wanted to know if Matt's story holds up, so we asked Texas Ranger Matt Cawthon to put it to the test with a dummy roughly the same weight as Carrie's at the time of her death.

[Narrator]

He would have had to reposition the body. I'm going to tell you right now, I don't think it happened that way, John. I just don't.

[Reporter]

How much time would he have had to do this between the call to 911 and the chest compressions?

[Narrator]

About 2 minutes to dress her, put.

[Reporter]

Her body on the floor, all while on the phone with 911. We're going to see if you can do this. I'm going to put a stopwatch to it. And here we go. And you're doing it as fast as you can.

[Narrator]

Well, I'm doing the best I can. And I feel the phone about to fall.

[Reporter]

48 seconds now. About a minute 20.

[Narrator]

He's having a conversation with the 911 operator. And he's not winded and he's perfectly calm while he's talking to the 911 operator.

[Reporter]

That's 1 minute, 57 seconds just to get her dressed.

[Narrator]

That doesn't include the removing from the bed and the chest compressions.

[Matt Baker]

And I know how to do CPR.

[911 Operator]

Oh, you do?

[Vanessa Bowles]

In listening to the 911 call, it sounded phony.

[911 Operator]

Do I need to go unlock the front door? I'll let you know when they start getting close.

[Reporter]

Okay.

[Vanessa Bowles]

I think he'd give himself an Oscar and I'd give him a rotten tomato.

[911 Operator]

Just keep doing compression.

[Michael Irvin]

I would not have known at the time when I got there that he had been doing cpr.

[911 Operator]

You're still doing compressions? Yes, I am. Okay.

[Reporter]

He did not sound winded on the phone.

[Narrator]

No, not at all. He didn't have to do chest compressions because she was already dead. He killed her, I think, before he left to go run alibi errands.

[Reporter]

Despite Matt's inconsistencies, prosecutors feel they need more, so they bring in a new detective to help with the investigation.

[Narrator]

My name is Abden Rodriguez, and in.

[Reporter]

2009, I was a criminal investigator for.

[Narrator]

The McLennan County District Attorney's office.

[Reporter]

I hear they call you the human lie detector. I guess because of some of the confessions that I was able to get. Abdon is asked to review the case and find evidence that would help indict Matt Baker.

[Narrator]

I wanted to look at the interviews that had been done.

[Reporter]

There was a lot of deception, you know, and I could see how especially Vanessa was doing it.

[Narrator]

How many times a week would you.

[Carrie Baker]

Talk, you think, prior to her death? Once every day for a couple hours and maybe midday or sometimes a couple times a day.

[Narrator]

As you can see, she's got her arms crossed and her legs crossed. That's a big red flag to me. When she passed away, that was. How were the conversations?

[Matt Baker]

Were they kind of the same way they were before?

[Laura Wilson]

They were. They were really the same.

[Narrator]

And I told them, and I said, look, the whole key to this case.

[Reporter]

Is going to be Vanessa Booth.

[Narrator]

She's pretty and very smooth and friendly, but at the same time, you know, she's a liar.

[Linda Doolin]

We didn't know if she might have even been involved.

[Reporter]

After interviewing Vanessa, Abdon decides to subpoena her to testify in front of a grand jury.

[Narrator]

I said, I'm going to be there.

[Reporter]

And I'm going to listen to your testimony.

[Narrator]

And I said, and as soon as you lie, I'm going to file charges on you.

[Joanne Bristol]

When they brought Vanessa Bowles in for the grand jury, that was kind of a last ditch effort.

[Narrator]

So we're like, okay, let's see what happens.

[Linda Doolin]

As she and I were walking down the hall, she whispered to me, I'm Gonna tell y'all everything.

[Reporter]

Behind closed doors. Vanessa Bull's grand jury testimony is the last step in getting Matt Baker and I did.

[Linda Doolin]

A former preacher charged with the murder of his wife.

[Reporter]

Finally, Vanessa's testimony is the smoking gun that it was. It was.

[Narrator]

She had everything we needed.

[Joanne Bristol]

The civil case was dropped at that point in order to let the criminal case continue.

[Reporter]

Matt Baker is charged with first degree murder, accused of drugging and suffocating his wife Carrie, and making it looked like a suicide. He pleads not guilty. Now, four years after his wife's death, Matt Baker is on trial for her murder.

[Joanne Bristol]

That first day of the trial, the gallery was full.

[Narrator]

We have a lot of people here in the gallery today.

[Reporter]

True crime author Katherine Casey was in the courtroom every day.

[Joanne Bristol]

I followed this story from the first time it hit the Texas newspapers. It was just so fascinating that this had unfolded, especially in Waco, in this city that's just dominated by religion.

[Reporter]

Prosecutors began poking holes in Matt's story from that night, starting with a 911 call and his claim that he performed CPR on Carrie.

[911 Operator]

I'm going to do. You're gonna do it fast and hard. 400 times. 400. 400 times.

[Linda Doolin]

Did any police officers arrive before you?

[Michael Irvin]

I was the first one there.

[Linda Doolin]

And what did he tell you?

[Michael Irvin]

He pulled her off the bed and put her on the floor in order to do cpr.

[Linda Doolin]

And what was his demeanor?

[Michael Irvin]

Very calm.

[Linda Doolin]

Did that strike you as odd?

[Michael Irvin]

Yes. Even as a police officer, I would not be as calm as he was that night.

[Linda Doolin]

There was no way that in that period of time, he was able to move her, dress her, and was doing CPR while he was having this conversation.

[Michael Irvin]

He wasn't sweating. He did not seem to be in any type of physical distress.

[Vanessa Bowles]

The computer expert found incredible evidence regarding searches regarding suicide, regarding sleeping pills, and regarding Ambien, which became critical.

[Narrator]

Can you tell the jury what was extracted from the muscle tissue of Carrie Baker?

[Matt Baker]

We found three different drugs. Phentermine, diphenhydramine, and Zolpidem. And then Zolpidem, and its common name is Ambien.

[Narrator]

We never were able to determine where he got the Ambien from, but we.

[Linda Doolin]

Were able to determine that he was going to these websites and that he had gotten as far as putting Ambien in a cart.

[Reporter]

Defense attorney Guy Gray pointed out that there was no evidence that Matt actually ordered Ambien from that website.

[Narrator]

They went through the process of looking at it, but it was aborted. And no purchase of Ambien was made, correct?

[Reporter]

Yes.

[Narrator]

No. Further question. Will you state your name for the jury, please?

[Carrie Baker]

Joanne Bristol.

[Reporter]

Joanne Bristol, Carrie's grief counselor, testified about those comments she says Carrie made about Matt.

[Carrie Baker]

She said, I'm thinking my husband is.

[Linda Doolin]

Going to kill me.

[Carrie Baker]

But she recanted the statement.

[Narrator]

How do you analyze that or what you would think about that?

[Carrie Baker]

I felt at that time that I knew this client very well. She had never misled me. And so when she said, oh, but I know he wouldn't do that, I believed her.

[Narrator]

You didn't advise her to leave the house or move out? You didn't call law enforcement. You took that recanting as an accurate or true reflection of what was going on?

[Carrie Baker]

From her, yes.

[Reporter]

Day four of the trial, and it's the prosecution's star witness who everyone is waiting to hear.

[Joanne Bristol]

This case was one of those cases where all of the attention is focused on one witness. And that one witness was Vanessa Bowles.

[Linda Doolin]

State calls Vanessa Bowles. I remember looking at Matt more than looking at the jury. I wanted to see his response, and I think he was stunned.

[Reporter]

After years of denying their affair, Vanessa now admits that Matt began to pursue her even before Carrie died.

[Narrator]

Please, have a seat.

[Laura Wilson]

He started asking me things about my divorce and started telling me, whoever finds you is going to be a lucky man.

[Linda Doolin]

Did he say anything else unusual to you?

[Laura Wilson]

He came by and was kind of smiling because, oh, don't date other guys. Just date your pastor. And kind of smiled.

[Linda Doolin]

Did he say anything else after that?

[Laura Wilson]

He said, will you really date your pastor? I've had a vasectomy, so I can't get you pregnant. Also, I don't have any STDs. And he also started telling me that because of Carrie's depression, as he stated, their sex life had been lacking.

[Linda Doolin]

And at the time, were you buying into what he was telling you about Kerry?

[Laura Wilson]

I was buying into everything. He was a complete and still is a manipulative liar who took me in my vulnerable state and made me believe everything he said.

[Linda Doolin]

What happened then? In early March, as you and Matt started to spend Fridays at the Baker.

[Laura Wilson]

Home, he asked if he could hold my hands to pray, and he did. Then afterwards, he started to kiss me. Then he just took my hand and led me to the bedroom.

[Reporter]

Feeling guilty about being with her pastor. Vanessa says that Matt tried to reassure her.

[Laura Wilson]

I was extremely remorseful. I couldn't believe what just happened. He started saying, it's okay. Don't feel bad. Just ask God to forgive you. And he said, in reality, he said, I don't think God believes that. Anyone can just be with one person the rest of their lives.

[Reporter]

After Carrie's death, Vanessa says Matt wanted more, perhaps even making her the next Mrs. Baker.

[Linda Doolin]

At some point, did you and Matt take the girls and go to Kay Jewelers in the mall?

[Laura Wilson]

We did. He stated that the girls wanted to go look at wedding rings for me.

[Linda Doolin]

Are you telling the jury that he was prepared in at this point, a week or two after Carrie's death to trade in Carrie's wedding set to get you a ring that you wanted?

[Laura Wilson]

Correct.

[Reporter]

Matt had denied this in interviews, but a salesperson from the jewelry store corroborated Vanessa's account.

[Laura Wilson]

She tried on about four or five rings, asked his opinion. He just would tell her it didn't matter what he liked. It was what she liked because she would be the one wearing it.

[Reporter]

Vanessa then drops a bomb when she says not only did Matt want out of his marriage, he said that if.

[Laura Wilson]

We ever fell so much in love that he would find a way out of it.

[Reporter]

She also knows what happened to Carrie Baker.

[Laura Wilson]

I told him that I'm gonna tell him what you did, and he said, you better.

[Narrator]

This is a warning for David Blaine's.

[Reporter]

New series on National Geographic. Do not attempt anything you are about to hear. As a magician, I'm searching for people with amazing abilities who will teach me things that I didn't even know were possible, things that you shouldn't do, and anything can go wrong.

[Carrie Baker]

David Blaine.

[Reporter]

Do not Attempt. Premieres Sunday, March 23rd at 9 on National Geographic, streaming on Disney plus and Hulu.

[Narrator]

With T Mobile.

[Laura Wilson]

No.

[Matt Baker]

Trendspotter has to deal with Trendspotty service because T Mobile helps keep you connected.

[Carrie Baker]

From big cities to your hometown on.

[Narrator]

America's largest 5G network.

[Matt Baker]

Switch now keep your phone and T.

[Carrie Baker]

Mobile will pay it off at the.

[Narrator]

$800 per line via prepaid card.

[Matt Baker]

Visit your local T Mobile location or.

[Laura Wilson]

Learn more@t mobile.com KeepAndSwitch up to four.

[Narrator]

Lines to be a virtual prepaid card.

[Carrie Baker]

Allow 15 days qualified unlocked device credit.

[Matt Baker]

Service report in 90 plus days device.

[Laura Wilson]

In eligible carrier and timely redemption required.

[Matt Baker]

Card is no cash access and expires in six months.

[Reporter]

Vanessa testifies that Matt was openly plotting Carrie's death.

[Linda Doolin]

At what point did he start talking about planning her murder?

[Laura Wilson]

It was sometime mid March. He said that, you know, she took sleeping pills every night so maybe he could make it look like she overdosed on sleeping pills.

[Joanne Bristol]

Vanessa Bowles talked about how Matt had ruminated about all the different ways he might kill Carrie.

[Laura Wilson]

He talked about making it look like she'd hung herself. He talked about tampering with the brakes of her car, maybe doing a drive by shooting.

[Carrie Baker]

What I saw from Vanessa's testimony was a man who was much more evil than even I believed he was.

[Reporter]

She testified that Matt planned to kill Carrie with a tainted milkshake and then craft a suicide note one to two.

[Linda Doolin]

Weeks before Carrie's death. Did he tell you that he had, in fact, tried that?

[Laura Wilson]

He did. He sent an email and sent. She took a sip of it and said that it tasted like lead. And so then he said, he took a drink and said, oh, well, the ice cream must have been bad. He mentioned that he would leave a note, and he said that he would type it. And I said, that's never going to work. You're going to be caught. And he said, oh, no. She types everything.

[Linda Doolin]

Did he say something else about what he believed other people thought about her mental state?

[Laura Wilson]

Oh, he said that no. No one would question it because of how depressed she was.

[Reporter]

Vanessa stuns the courtroom when she says Matt Baker told her how he killed his wife.

[Laura Wilson]

He had gotten Big Horse pills. He said he emptied out all the contents and put crushed Ambien in them. He said he handcuffed her to the bed, started kissing her and touching her all over until she fell asleep. Then he said he got the pillow and put it over her face.

[Linda Doolin]

What did he say happened next?

[Laura Wilson]

He said that he thought she was dead. And he just said she just took one big ass for air. And he said, oh, and then put the pillow back on her face. Except he did this with his hand to be sure that he suffocated her.

[Linda Doolin]

He didn't even feel enough remorse when he realized that she was still alive to rethink it. He just wanted to finish the job.

[Laura Wilson]

He said he typed out the suicide note, printed it, got her hand. And he said that he ran her hand all around the sides of it and put her fingerprints all over it. He said that he set everything up, locked the door, and left.

[Reporter]

What was the reaction in the courtroom to Vanessa's testimony that not only did Matt Baker killed his wife, but that he had been planning it?

[Narrator]

He had been planning it. And the things that he did, people couldn't believe it. I think the more surprising thing was.

[Reporter]

That they couldn't believe that she's up.

[Narrator]

There telling all this.

[Linda Doolin]

So you knew that Friday, April 7th of 2006 was the day that he was going to try it again?

[Laura Wilson]

I knew he was going to try it then, yes.

[Joanne Bristol]

All right.

[Linda Doolin]

And you didn't report that to anybody?

[Narrator]

No.

[Reporter]

Vanessa says she had second thoughts about Matt and the COVID up of Carrie's murder.

[Laura Wilson]

Not only had I known about this and not done the right thing, in truth, who would believe me? He was a preacher, and so I felt like I was stuck.

[Reporter]

She then chose to break it off with him.

[Laura Wilson]

I decided that I didn't care what he told me anymore, that we didn't worship the same God. So I called him. I told him, I never want to see you again. And he became irate. He started saying, I killed my wife for you and now you're leaving.

[Reporter]

In a move Vanessa believed was meant to intimidate her. She testifies that Matt sent her an MP3 of a song called dirty little secret.

[Carrie Baker]

I'll keep you my dirty little secret don't tell anyone you're just another regret.

[Laura Wilson]

He was talking about the murder plan, and he later referenced it, stating, I need to keep my mouth shut. Don't tell anyone or you'll be just another regret.

[Linda Doolin]

I'll pass the Witness, your honor.

[Reporter]

Ms. Bowles, the defense pressed Vanessa on why she was now coming clean about everything.

[Narrator]

How would we know to believe you, Vanessa?

[Laura Wilson]

Because what do I have to gain from this? Right now? I'm setting things right. I made a mistake, mistake here. Because a manipulative liar wearing the mask of God came into my life. And this testimony is going to put him where he needs to be.

[Reporter]

It's now up to the jury to determine where Matt needs to be.

[Narrator]

Folks, we can't protect her from harm. The only thing now we can do is give her justice. Then turned and pointed to Matt and said, to convict this murdering minister and find him guilty for one reason only. Because he is guilty. The indictment says there's got to be facts of drugs and a pillow. And the only way you can get those facts is by believing Vanessa bulls.

[Michael Irvin]

And she.

[Narrator]

She is just not credible.

[Carrie Baker]

I think a lot of people struggled with Vanessa.

[Linda Doolin]

I mean, she had done horrible things. But I think it really helped her credibility when she was on the stand because she didn't try to fade her own culpability.

[Narrator]

I think Vanessa was absolutely the key to the case. They reached a unanimous verdict, is that correct?

[Reporter]

Yes, sir.

[Narrator]

We the jury, find the defendant, Matt D. Baker, guilty of the offense of murder as alleged in the indictment.

[Reporter]

For the sentencing phase of the trial, the jury gets to hear additional testimony.

[Carrie Baker]

They came back and had witnesses from his past come and talk to us about things that he had done.

[Reporter]

One by one, women testify about sexual misconduct they say they endured from Matt.

[Carrie Baker]

Baker he came up from behind me, put his hand on my breast. I pushed him away, told him no. He tried to kiss me, told him no. I remember having to use all my.

[Laura Wilson]

Strength to try to keep him off.

[Carrie Baker]

Of me and from taking my clothes off.

[Reporter]

Including Laura Wilson, the student trainer who worked alongside him in college.

[Laura Wilson]

He took his hand and began running up my thigh and between my legs.

[Carrie Baker]

I think it's as a jury to see what all he's been doing since he was a teenager made us 100% feel like that we had definitely made the right decision.

[Reporter]

The jury sentenced Matt Baker to 65 years in prison. And finally, Carrie's mother has a chance to confront him directly.

[Carrie Baker]

I'm talking to you, Matt, today, okay? You haven't looked at me in almost four years. Can you look at me today?

[Reporter]

So what does Matt have to say from behind bars?

[Carrie Baker]

Yeah, we asked him to give him a call.

[Narrator]

It's a sentence of the court that you be confined for a term of 65 years. There's some victim impact statements given by the family of the victim. You may proceed.

[Carrie Baker]

I'm talking to you, Matt, today, okay? You haven't looked at me in almost four years. Can you look at me today for a little while, okay? But she did talk to him directly, and he looked down, Matt. She was loved you. And then you took her from us, Matt. You discarded her like she was yesterday's trash. You murdered the mother of your children. But love trumps evil. I don't know why, but I felt pity for him.

[Matt Baker]

I truly believe in my innocence. I believe the jury made a mistake in this.

[Reporter]

After his sentencing, 2020 speaks with Matt Baker again, this time in prison, where he finally admits to his affair with Vanessa, but continues to maintain his innocence.

[Matt Baker]

I'm coming clean on the lying about Vanessa. I made a mistake. I'm human. I made a mistake. I should not have ever got involved in that. I was having a tough spot in my marriage and I took the chicken way out. But I would never have hurt my wife. I never did. I never laid a hand on her, ever.

[Carrie Baker]

Their mother was erased from them. They need to know she loved them and she didn't leave them by choice.

[Reporter]

A year and a half after Matt's conviction, Linda was given custody of her granddaughters.

[Joanne Bristol]

It was a long journey for the girls to understand what had actually happened to their mother.

[Narrator]

Carrie Baker didn't kill herself. She was murdered.

[Reporter]

He was a Baptist pastor, preacher.

[Narrator]

He was a predator.

[Vanessa Bowles]

I think he's a dark angel that.

[Matt Baker]

You may fear the Lord.

[Narrator]

Your.

[Vanessa Bowles]

You get to be the hero during daylight and sneak around in the dark and be evil.

[Reporter]

What do you make of the fact that now, nearly 20 years after the case, Matt Baker still maintains his innocence?

[Narrator]

He's one of those people that can.

[Reporter]

Just lie and lie and believe in himself that he's innocent.

[Narrator]

The real hero in this is Linda Doolin. She fought for her child.

[Reporter]

A mother, a mother's will. It's strong determination.

[Narrator]

There's nothing like it really.

[Reporter]

It touches you.

[Narrator]

It does.

[Matt Baker]

Why?

[Narrator]

Because I have children. And these are hard things. Linda Doolin is a brave, strong woman. I'll always admire that about her.

[Carrie Baker]

We love each other and we knew Carrie did not take her life and we weren't going to sit back until somebody would listen to us. She was an amazing mother.

[Matt Baker]

And she.

[Carrie Baker]

Would fight for any of us. And I just wanted everybody to know that truth.

[Narrator]

Carrie's family is still so heartbroken over their loss, but committed to remembering the joy she brought them all.

[Matt Baker]

We should point out tonight that Matt.

[Narrator]

Baker hasn't seen his daughter since he went to prison, but he hopes they'll visit one day.

[Carrie Baker]

As for Baker, David, he has exhausted all of his state appeals.

[Linda Doolin]

For an inside look at tonight's 2020, join me for our brand new podcast, 2020 the After Show.

[Carrie Baker]

Thanks so much for watching.

[Linda Doolin]

I'm Debra Roberts.

[Matt Baker]

And I'm David Muir.

[Narrator]

From all of us here at 2020.

[Matt Baker]

And ABC News, good night. Hey, I'm Brad Milke.

[Laura Wilson]

You may know me as the host of ABC Audio's daily news podcast, Start Here. But I'd like to add aspiring true.

[Carrie Baker]

Crime expert to my resume.

[Laura Wilson]

And here's how I'm gonna make it happen. Every week I'm gonna unpack the biggest true crime story that everyone is talking about. ABC's got some unique access here, so.

[Matt Baker]

I'll talk to the reporters and producers.

[Laura Wilson]

Who have followed these cases for months, sometimes years. We'll bring you the latest developments and the larger context on the true crime.

[Matt Baker]

Stories you've been hearing about. Follow the crime scene for special access.

[Laura Wilson]

To the people who know these stories best.

[Carrie Baker]

This is Deborah Roberts.

[Linda Doolin]

To hear the backstory to this episode.

[Reporter]

Join me for the 2020 After Show.

[Linda Doolin]

Every Monday, I'm gonna talk with correspondents, producers, some of those folks behind the scenes who bring you these stories. And you're going to hear bonus tape that's not necessarily included in the episode. That's 2020, the after show Mondays in your 2020 podcast feed.