Deborah Roberts (0:01)

This episode is brought to you by Dutch Bros. Big smiles, rocking tunes and epic drinks. Dutch Bros. Is all about you choose from a variety of customizable handcrafted beverages like our rebel energy drinks, coffees, teas and more. Download the Dutch Bros app for a free medium drink. Plus find your nearest shop. Order ahead and start earning rewards offer valid for new app users only. Free medium drink Reward upon registration 14 day expiration terms apply. See DutchBros.com Tonight is a breakthrough on the horizon in one of the country's most high profile Unsolved Mysteries. JonBenet Ramsey, the name we all know. The case that shook America that Christmas nearly 30 years ago. Could there finally be a major turn in the case? 2020 begins right now. I just kept saying, no, no. Ask God to raise her. I wanna be a cowboy, sweetheart. JonBenet Ramsey the story you can't forget the case you think you know. With all that attention, all that scrutiny, why hasn't this crime been solved? One simple reason. The police have refused help that was offered. And it could have helped. But now is the new documentary series Changing the picture. Go back to the damn drawing board. So early on they locked into this crazy idea that the parents were responsible. They get tunnel vision. With new DNA technology is a solution closer than ever. We think the crime can be solved. Inspiring. John Ramsey. Tonight, the new John Ramsey interview. You dwell on your loss and you just can't do that. And what you've never seen before from the iconic Barbara Walter. Sit down. This was a monster that killed our daughter. And the police think that it's you. Now the detective who defied the police, they knew at the time that there was DNA and that it was not for Ramsey's DNA. And he just said, I have a name. I want you to write it down. And I did. And he said, that's where you start. All but one person on that list is innocent. Then you got your killer. She was a beautiful child of God. We knew she was special. We knew she was going to make a difference. We certainly didn't expect it to be this way. And yet here's a child who is known literally around the world. So she did become special. She is the special little girl forever. Six years old. While JonBenet Ramsey remains frozen in time, her father has endured nearly three decades without justice, without answers and without his daughter. I sat down for a new interview with the now 81 year old John Ramsey. Hello, sir. Byron. Vince. Byron, John Ramsey. I had JonBenet blessed my life for six years and she really was a Blessing. Just an amazing little kid. She was daddy's girl. She was daddy's girl big time. Do you allow yourself to think, what if this hadn't happened? I don't. I did run into one of her little friends on the street who is now, you know, 30 and an adult, and that was a little bit of a jolt. Think, wow, that could have been JonBenet. She's still my little girl. That's the picture I have in my head when I think of her. Ramsey has renewed hope that his daughter's killer can finally be found, confident that advances in DNA technology are the key to solving the mystery. There's been a number of old, old cold cases solved using this genealogy research. There was no more important story in the country than the disappearance and the death of your daughter. Police have still not named a suspect. It's now been 12 days since JonBenet Ramsey was murdered. Officers have spent more than 3,000 hours processing evidence and interviewing more than 90 people. With all that attention, all that scrutiny, why hasn't this crime been solved? One simple reason. The police have refused help that was offered. They had no experience. They didn't have a homicide department. That police response in its aftermath is the focus of a new Netflix docuseries Cold case. Who killed JonBenet Ramsey? Someone killed this six year old child. You have a small town police force that gets a crime that they're not used to. Is it fair to question the Boulder Police Department's experience, ability to investigate a homicide of his? I don't think so. Just because you have one homicide in a year, I think is actually a sign of remarkable strength in a community. This was the first murder in Boulder that year and it was December 26th. So they don't have a lot of murders, particularly where a little girl is tortured to death. John Ramsey worked with award winning documentarian Joe Berlinger, who says he wanted to shed new light on what he calls one of the most brutalized families in American history. Obviously, he wasn't legally wrongfully convicted, but he was wrongfully convicted and his wife Patsy. The family were wrongfully convicted in the court of public opinion. You still feel like it's a cloud over your family name? Yeah, because I guess because there are still people in the country who still. Oh, still believe. Absolutely. That your wife will respond. No doubt. And we could have the killer confessed, arrested in prison, and there'd still be 5 to 10% of the population thinking, yeah, yeah, it was the father, or, yeah, it was the mother. The hit docu series has sparked a new Generation of interest on social media. Okay, One of my girlfriends and I have a new JonBenet theory and I want to float it. I want to float it. I just finished the JonBenet Ramsey new documentary on Netflix and holy. I need to know what happened to JonBenet Ramsey. With the wave of renewed scrutiny, the Boulder Police Department issued a video statement last month. So much of how law enforcement works has changed in the last 30 years. There are a number of things that people have pointed to throughout the years that could have been done better and we acknowledge that is true. However, it is important to emphasize that while we cannot go back to that horrible day in 1996, our goal is to find JonBenet Ramsey's killer. That horrible day in 1996 began at Christmastime in the storybook neighborhood where the Ramsey family lived in Boulder, Colorado. There's a saying here in Colorado that boulder is 30 square miles of fantasy surrounded by reality. It's very wealthy, it's well to do. John and Patsy Ramsey lived in a 16 sq ft Tudor there on 15th Street. John Ramsey was the CEO of a computer services company. He'd suffered tragedy before when his 22 year old daughter Beth died in a car accident. In 1980, he married his new wife, Patsy. By all accounts, they were a happy couple. Patsy was a high society woman. I'm a daughter, I'm a sister, I'm a friend. I'm a wife and a mother. John used to just tell people that I invested in futures, the futures of my children. That's how I usually answer my occupation. John and Patsy Ramsey had two children together. Their firstborn was Burke, nine years old, and JonBenet, six and a half in kindergarten. My name is Jon Andrew Ramsey, JonBenet's half brother. JonBenet was just an energetic and fun kid. Patsy Ramsey was a former beauty queen, Miss West Virginia. By the time JonBenet was four years old, she was in the pageant system herself. I wanna be a cowboy, sweetheart. I really believe that if we hadn't seen the beauty pageant photos of JonBenet Ramsey, it might have just gone into the ether as another child murder. This one captivated us because we saw the beauty pageant pictures. Hello, I'm Patsy Ramsey. This is JonBenet. She's four, Burke is seven. Christmas was Patsy's favorite time and she really went all out. She had a Christmas tree for every room and every tree had a theme. The windows were done with garland, the staircases had garland. There were red ribbons everywhere. And from all of us at our house to everyone at Your house. Merry Christmas. And the happiest of New years. There was plenty to celebrate that Christmas of 1996. Patsy had been battling ovarian cancer and was finally in remission. On Christmas morning, the family opened presents in their home. They were going to a friend's house for dinner that night. We were going to leave early the next morning for a trip to our summer cottage in Michigan. So we came home, set the alarm and went to went to sleep. This is your first extended interview. In 2000, Barbara Walters spoke to the couple about that terrible day. You get up, you're dressed, what happens? I went down our steps from our bedroom to the second floor. Then I started walking down the spiral staircase. And as I came to the bottom of the stairs there were three pages neatly laid across one of the runs of the stairway. She picked up the note and she started to read it. I just remember when I read we have your daughter it just this overwhelming fear. And then, then I just screamed for John. Screamed take me back to that day. I was shaving or getting dressed and I heard Patsy scream. And we called the police immediately. We have a kidnapping. Hi, explain to me what's going on. What's your name? Are you Patsy Lamb? The mother? Oh my God. 911 emergency. I was the call taker that night shift when the call came in. Police. What's going on? What's going on there? Ma'am, we have a kidnapping. Hurry. Please explain to me what's going on. Okay, Sarah, we have a. There's a note left and our daughter's gone. There's a ransom note here. It's a ransom note. Oh my God. Please. She's hysterical and she says there's a kidnapping. Please. I'm okay. I'm sending an officer over, okay. Do you know how long she's been gone? No, I don't. Please. We just got FC right here. Oh my God. Please. The note said if you do anything, if Police come, if FBI come, your daughter will die. You called 911? Yes, I did. I had to do something. I had to take action. And I mean all this happened in a matter of moments. Patsy Ramsey called 911 at 5:52am and the first officer from the Boulder Police Department arrives three minutes later at 5:55. We called friends for help at that point. Your daughter is gone. She's in the hands of a madman. My phone rang. Pam. They've got her. What do you mean they've got her? They've kidnapped JonBenet. She's gone. What was the atmosphere like as you sat and waited. Well, it was. It was awful. First of all, we didn't know whether the kidnapper was going to call that day because the note said, I will call you tomorrow. Get plenty of rest. I was deathly afraid that tomorrow was, in fact, the 27th. You lose all perception of time, of place. You've just been dealt a horrible, crushing blow. At 6 o'clock on the morning of December 26, the police came in and did a cursory search of the residence. It was a lavish home with about 18 rooms. The police did a terrible, terrible job securing that scene. And if you don't secure the scene, you don't get good evidence. The mistakes they made were outrageous. They were mystifying. They were mistake after mistake after mistake. People were streaming through that house. They were in the kitchen, they were in the living room. There were some friends of Patsy's that were helping her wipe up the kitchen. There could have been fingerprints there. You had friends that were windexing the sink and washing dishes. People were making toast in the kitchen. And yes, a kidnapping is a crime scene, but we were so focused on getting JonBenet back. That was the task. What we have learned is that everyone should have been sequestered into an area so that people weren't roaming around the house. And that was a mistake on my part. The reason I didn't is because these people were the Ramsey's support system. There was no information at all to indicate the family was involved at that point. It was a crime scene and it was getting contaminated. The note was being passed around and reviewed by all of their friends. Of all of the evidence left behind, that ransom note is the most baffling. Number one, it is too damn long. A ransom note is not that long. A ransom note says, I have your child. I want a million dollars. I'll call you later. The note was three pages and written in longhand. That ransom note was the war and peace of ransom notes. It begins, Mr. Ramsey, listen carefully. You will withdraw $118,000 from your account. 100,000 will be in $100 bills and the remaining 18,000 in $20 bills. You think about this number and how is it relevant? And it's relevant because John Ramsey got a bonus from his company for $118,000. How many people knew that? I'm going to guess not a lot of people. This footage of Barbara Walters interview with The Ramseys in 2000 has never aired until now. The ransom note asked for an odd figure. $118,000. That was a Bonus that you had received? Well, that was one of the theories that I came up with that it was close to the net amount I'd received that year as a bonus. 118 means something to the killer. We know that. We believe that. Whether it's tied to my bonus or something, only the killer knows. We don't know. Did you know that your husband got this kind of a bonus? Not at the time, no. Lou Smit, a detective who would later be brought into the case to re examine the evidence, noticed something else unusual about the ransom note. Some of the phrases appear to mimic lines in movies about kidnappings. Lou Smith recorded his observation observations about the case. John the movie Ransom was playing in Boulder. I have your son. Oh, Jesus. I want $2 million. In that particular movie, a fat cat industrialist, his son was kidnapped. There's a lot of the same verbiage in this note as was in even a note that was written in that particular movie. If we catch you talking to a stray dog, she dies. A kidnapper says a similar line to Clint Eastwood in the movie Dirty Harry. If you talk to anyone, I don't care if it's a Pekingese pissing against a lamp post, the girl dies. You and your family are under constant scrutiny as well as the authorities. Don't try to grow a brain, John. That's a line used by a terrorist in the movie Speed. Do not attempt to grow a brain. Our guys are real watchers of that particular type of movies. The ransom note was a vital piece of evidence. Police need to figure out who wrote it and when. On the morning of December 26, the minutes ticked by as the Ramseys waited to hear from the kidnapper. It was awful. The kidnappers had written that they would telephone you by 10am All I prayed for was that he would call. But it would be a discovery inside the house that would change everything. The ransom note that Patsy Ramsey says she found indicated there would be a call between between 8 and 10am the police had prepped me on how to respond in a phone call and it very important you hear John Menay's voice. Police officers were leaving between 9:30 and 9:45 before that time period of the phone call had even expired. One lone detective was left on the scene. Detective Linda Arndt is left behind in the house with John and Patsy Ramsey. Arndt didn't have extensive homicide experience managing a kidnapping and what was about to unfold this was likely pretty overwhelming for one lone police officer. I was praying. Linda Arndt had said to me, we're hopeful that the kidnappers will just drop JonBenet off someplace. And I kept looking out the window, clutching the screen cross and just imagining that she was going to come running down the street. They're waiting for a telephone call from the kidnapper. What's going to happen next? My former ABC News colleague Elizabeth Vargas did one of the first extensive interviews with Detective Linda Art. 10:00 comes and goes. And there's no acknowledgement that the deadline imposed by the author of the ransom note has come and gone. Nobody said it's 10 o'clock and the kidnappers haven't called. Nobody said that. According to Arndt, neither John nor Patsy Ramsey seemed to mark it or freak out about it. She says later she found it curious that John Ramsey checked his mail in the kitchen in the middle of the crisis. How are you supposed to act when you came? Oh, I don't know for sure, but I really thought I could get JonBenet back if I kept my wits about me, you know? There was a pile of envelopes that had come through our front door slot. I was looking for another communication for the kidnapper. She should have been doing that. Linda Arndt tells the Restless John, why don't you look around the house, see if anything is missing or looks strange. Check the house top to bottom. Look for anything that might belong to JonBenet that is in place where it shouldn't be. Were you at that point giving him perhaps a little bit of distraction? Busy work? I wanted to lessen his anxiety by giving him a job to do, a task, a meaningless task. John took a friend with him. They went to the basement. And John opened the door. You opened the door to the small room. I knew instantly, instantly what I'd found. I'd found my daughter. She was lying on a white blanket. The blanket was wrapped around her. Her hands were tied above her head. She had tape over her mouth. I immediately knelt down over her, felt her cheek, took the tape off immediately off her mouth. I tried to untie the cord that was around her arms. I couldn't get the knot untied. Picked her up and I ran upstairs and laid her on the floor and still had a hope that she was alive. And I see jon Ramsey carrying JonBenet up the last three steps from the basement. She looked like she was sleeping. She had some marks on her face and on her neck. I knelt next to her and I leaned down to her face and John leaned down opposite and he asked if she was dead. And I said, yes, she's dead. And as we looked at each other. I remember. And I wore a shoulder holster, tucking my gun right next to me and consciously counting. I've got 18 bullets. Why did you do that? Because I didn't know if we'd all be alive when people showed up. She clearly felt in danger at that moment. She made it clear that she thought John Ramsey killed his daughter and that he might kill her. Linda Arndt's ability to look in someone's eyes and determine they were a killer is a remarkable talent. We reached out to Detective Arndt to ask her about her reaction back then, but she did not respond. Ramsey has long been upset with her. She said, yeah, I saw it in John's eyes. I knew he was guilty. That was the detective that was there that morning. How is it that you have all these cops searching a home and nobody finds the body, but you asked John Ramsey to go look for things out of the ordinary? And he finds his daughter in a room that had never been opened by anybody in law enforcement. That's crazy. He lays her on the living room floor where just a few minutes before, friends and neighbors have been walking and, you know, bringing in fibers and whatever to contaminate the scene. And then the coup de grace, he grabs a blanket, which is full of who knows what kind of contaminants and throws it over the body. Patsy was being kept out of the room. And I didn't want patsy to see JonBenet laying there like that. I remember walking in and seeing her lying there in front of the Christmas tree. I knelt down over her and just laid my body on her body and my cheek against her cheek and. And it was cold. And Father Ra was there. And he started saying the last rites, I believe. And I just kept saying, no, no, you know, ask God. Ask God to raise her. So the kidnapping of JonBenet Ramsey has turned into the murder of JonBenet. JonBenet Ramsey was violated and murdered in a horrific way. Many injuries to this little girl's body. The X ray of her skull shows a massive fracture. This is an 8 inch skull fracture. So we're talking a major blunt force. This is just a massive blow. But the ultimate cause of her death was strangulation with something called a garrote. It's a device of a string and it's wrapped around what ends up being a piece of a paintbrush. And what happens is as JonBenet is losing consciousness, she's leaning forward. And so this gets tighter and tighter. And you can see how it cuts into my hand. You can see exactly why it cut into her neck. And that ultimately, according to the me, is what killed her. If you look at the autopsy report, JonBenet died while being tortured. She was alive while she was being tortured. There were signs that JonBenet had already also been sexually abused. The broken pieces of paintbrush that were used for the garrote were also used to sexually assault her. There were four people in that house and one died overnight. From the very beginning, they suspected the parents within minutes of Jean Mar's body being found. This was who they were going to go after. And that's what they did. The police are thinking, we gotta talk to those parents and we gotta talk to them right now before they start getting their story straight together. This episode is brought to you by Amazon. The holidays are here. And you know what that means. It's time to get your friends and family the gifts they deserve. Take the stress out of shopping with Amazon's great deals and low prices on a huge range of items from toys to tech and much more. Whoever you're gifting for, Amazon has great prices on everything you need this holiday season. Shop last minute deals now. Deck your home with blinds.com DIY or let us install Fala. La la la la la la la la. Free design consultation. Free free free free free free free. Plus free samples and free ship shipping head to blinds.com now for up to 45% off select styles plus a free professional measure. Rules and restrictions may apply. When JonBenet's body was brought out past the candy canes decorating the front of the house, there were only a couple of reporters outside to capture that. And then the media frenzy started. JonBenet Ramsey, the little girl in Colorado was murdered. Beauty queen JonBenet. JonBenet's murder has frightened residents of Boulder. News outlets from around the world had descended upon Boulder and were just hiding in trees and bushes and digging through our trash, following me around town. I mean, it was, it was war. The Jomin Ramsey case was completely out of control. You also have to remember the O.J. simpson case had wrapped up the 24 hour news cycle. Their content had dried up. And so along came the Ramsey family. And we fit right into that slot. JoanBenet Ramsey was a precocious six year old who had been strangled to death in the basement of her own home. You have the shock, this incredibly horrendous crime. And then you have these videos that surface of this Beautiful young girl, JonBenet Ramsey. Darfee and green eyes dancing in her costumes. And those were the first viral videos she'd like to become an Atlantic ice skater. People who didn't really grow up in the south and understand that industry, the industry of beauty pageants thought it was the most horrible exploitation of a child they'd ever seen. So when those images started playing across the television, people started thinking, what's wrong with that family? For many, this was their first glimpse into the world of child pageants. Long before his shows tested 15, like Toddlers and Tiaras, number 65, Alana. But Jon Ramsey tells me it was something that would bring joy to JonBenet and his wife Patsy. The pageants forwarders came out and that made it more juicy. Yeah, yeah. And that was just something that Patsy and Jomin had fun with. Jonny never participated in, in a. What I would call a beauty contest. She participated in a talent show. She would sing and dance. She would sing, she would dance. I wanna be a cowboy, sweetheart I wanna learn to rope and to ride these were such a small, small, miniscule part of what JonBenet was all about. I think it's just because the photographs were so available and so beautiful that it took on a life of its own. It's part of what turned it into an international circus. This little girl's image was everywhere. Overnight, the biggest negative factor about John and Patsy Ramsey was that they had allowed their daughter to be in child beauty pageant contests. And people did not like them. But to think they would murder their own daughter was unimaginable. Yet police found evidence that in their minds, pointed towards the Ramseys. When you start with children of this age, when they die, tend to die at the hands of their parents. So the focus is naturally going to be on the parents to begin with. Now, in the house, the ransom note is written on a pad that belongs to Patsy. This is the notepad. This location right here is where the note was physically found by Patsy. The pin that was used was in the house. The garrote that was used in JonBenet's murder also got the attention of investigators because of what it was made of. It basically is an artist's paintbrush that's broken. And what's important is that it actually came from Patsy's art supply. And there were even fibers on the backside of the duct tape that had been on JonBenet's mouth from Patsy's clothing. And that was important. But Patsy lived in the house, so those could have been there. Anyway, the police started thinking, well, maybe this is just a cover up, that the Ramsey's harmed their child some way. Then panicked and tried to create Basically a kidnapping scenario. Patsy and John should have been taken to the police station immediately for separate interviews, for examination of their body, for defensive wounds, for collection of their clothing. That never happened at this point. They haven't interviewed the mother or father. Not surprisingly, they're still very grief stricken. They have not been in any kind of condition to be interviewed. My father, myself, we all marched into that police station. We gave blood, we gave hair, we gave fingerprints. The thing that really stuck with me is two detectives hand me their business cards and one says, narcotics officer, and the other says, auto theft. And I bury my head into my hands because I knew at that point we were in a bad spot. Though the police had spoken to jon Ramsey After JonBenet's body was found, what they really wanted to do was formally interrogate the couple. The police are thinking, we gotta talk to those parents and we gotta talk to them right now before they start getting their story straight together. Your lawyers advised you then not to submit to police questions. Why not? People say, wouldn't you have wanted to tell them everything? Well, I don't recall that. Our lawyers told us that at the time. We said, you know, yeah, we want to keep working with you, but can't you come here? We can't go out. Patsy was in bed. Patsy was barely able to move. We were perfectly willing and anxious to work with the police to find the killer. We had a higher priority at that point, and that was to bury our daughter. The family is flying the body back to Atlanta for burial On New Year's Eve. JonBenet was laid to rest just outside Atlanta, Georgia. This service is in loving memory of JonBenet Patricia Ramsey. We flew back to Atlanta to bury JonBenet. Atlanta being our home, Atlanta being where my oldest sister Beth is buried. We give thanks today for JonBenet, for the love that she had for her parents. I want to go back to the funeral. Whatever we do, we gonna go through it together. We may not get far, but sure as the star, Wherever we are, it's together. Wherever we are, it's together. We sang that. She and I sang that together. We'd sing it driving in the car. And we just knew that we would always be together in everything. I. I wanted my children to know that I was with them through thick and thin, regardless of what happened in life, you know, unconditional love. Look at that. You can go places now. Everybody wanted to see these parents. Everybody wanted to talk to these parents, especially the police. When you realized that you, too, were the crime suspects, what did you think? The Boulder police did not interrogate the Ramseys, but they remained the main suspects. Many people found the Ramsey's behavior peculiar and suspended. And from that, many presumed they must be guilty. When you realized that you two were the prime suspects, what did you think? What did you feel? What did you say? Well, we were outraged. We were shocked. How could they think that we were a normal family? I just didn't believe it. You just can't believe it. I mean, we're suffering from having lost our child. And then for someone to accuse you, it's just. You can't believe that would happen. Then six days after the murder, they go on CNN and say they didn't do it. If anyone knows anything, please, please help us. We've sensed from our friends that this tragedy has touched not just ourselves and our friends, but many people. As a mother, my heart went out to this couple. And if I were a resident of Boulder, I would tell my friends to keep. Keep your babies close to you. There's someone out there. Some people thought it was odd they were talking to the rather than to the police. You did an interview on cnn. Why did you do that? We did it reluctantly and at the insistence of some friends who could see that we were being painted as guilty. Unfortunately, at that time we were so. When we look back at it, we were so distraught and medicated. It was probably not giving the impression that he had hoped we would achieve. Police end their 10 day search of the Ramsey house and remove the crime scene tape. It is unknown if the family intends to resume residency at the home. We have no comment on the whereabouts of the family at this time. Starting from the beginning of this case, we, the media, lapped up what the Boulder Police Department wanted to tell us about what they were doing in the JonBenet Ramsey case. For the most part, the police didn't say much. They didn't leak a lot of information, but when they did, it was major. They thought the mother did it. Some people who believe Patsy killed her daughter believe it was over bedwetting and then staged it to look like an intruder. The bedwetting theory was a big theory at the time. I am a cancer survivor of stage four cancer. When you are standing on the brink of death with a terminal illness, your priorities suddenly line up. Bedwetting is totally insignificant. I love my children. I wouldn't harm them for anything in the world. But many Americans were riveted by the possibilities that the Ramseys might have done this. Some of the authorities have said that you staged this, that you loosely tied Your daughter's hands, that you put the noose, the garrote, to make it look as if some terrible person had done this. That this whole picture was staged. Well, that's absurd. This was done by a terrible person. The garrote was deeply embedded in JonBenet's throat. Her hands were tightly bound. I couldn't get the knot untied. I tried to get it untied even before I brought her upstairs. And to say that we accidentally murdered our daughter and then staged this. Why would we have disturbed it? Mr. And Mrs. Ramsey, did either of you have anything to do with the death of your daughter? No. No. Mr. Ramsey, did you kill JonBenet? No, I did not. Mrs. Ramsey, did you kill your daughter? No, I did not kill my daughter. How do you feel when I ask you these questions? Insulted. Pain? Hurtful? How can I tell you how much I love my daughter? I love her from the depths of my being. It's just unimaginable. There was a Gallup poll at the time that said something like 70% of the American public thought that you or your wife were guilty. I remember reading that and it's like, well, I get it. That's what you were told over and over again. There's so many puzzle pieces here that just don't fit. Do you really think your daughter's murderer will be found? Yes, I do. Because the killer has never been pursued. An objective, wide investigation hasn't taken place. The parents have been focused on. That's all that's been done. I think it's solvable. I really believe, given today's technology, there are a lot of people in this country who hope that that crime is solved in your lifetime. The suspect might be out there and be someone who's completely unknown, who has never been on anyone's radar. What we know is that just within a few mile radius of the Ramsey's home, There was approximately 38 to 40 sex offenders in that area. And the question is, have they all been completely vetted? And decades later, granddaughters of one of the investigators joined the search for the killer. There's a lot more evidence to cover and more myths to debunk. I do want to get the truth out there. Was it an accident? Was it intentional? Premeditated? I want to say something to the person or persons that took this baby from us. The list of suspects narrows. Soon there will be no one on the list but you. Our killer is John Benet. How many victims has he had in the past? How many victims has. Tonight, the new focus on One of the most haunting unsolved cases of the last 30 years. Will the spotlight push the police for further DNA testing? I just need some specifics from the police. Are you doing this? Are you doing this now? New interviews. They targeted you, John. They wanted to hurt you. And they did that by killing your daughter. What you've never heard before from Patsy Ramsey. The police were more concerned with feeding the frenzy of media sharks every day than in finding the killer of our daughter. The detective who left the police to pursue his own investigation, Lou dedicated a big part of his life to finding Jomin's murderer. Detective Lou Smith was like, whoa. He just said, I have a name. I want you to write it down. Is the answer in the list he left behind? Our grandfather was a detective on one of the biggest unsolved murders in our generation. Do you think if they'd taken the help offered 28 years ago, this case would have been solved by. Oh, yeah, I have no doubt. It's a good opportunity to really find out who did this. This episode is brought to you by Lifelock. The holidays mean more travel, more shopping, more time online, and more personal info in places that could expose you to identity theft. That's why LifeLock monitors millions of data points every second. If your identity is stolen, their US Based restoration specialist will fix it, guaranteed, or your money back. Get more holiday fun and less holiday worry with Lifelock. Save up to 40% your first year. Visit lifelock.com podcast terms apply. In the dry states of the Southwest, there's a group that's been denied a basic human right in the Navajo Nation. Today, a third of our households don't have running water. But that's not something they chose for themselves. Can the Navajo people reclaim their right to water and contend with the government's legacy of control and neglect? Our water, our future. Our water, our future. That's in the next season of Reclaimed, the lifeblood of Navajo Nation. Listen now, wherever you get your podcasts. JonBenet Ramsey. JonBenet was an entertainer. She would entertain at the drop of a hat. She loved to sing and dance and perform. It was a natural for her. I competed with JonBenet. She had all these wonderful costumes and outfits, and she had the presents. It wasn't really a competition to her. It was more of like, this is fun. Like, let's go on stage and do that. My name is JonBenet Ramsey and I'm five and a half. What is your favorite animal at the zoo? The monkeys, because they laugh and stuff and hang around. Today, JonBenet Ramsay. She would have been 34 years old. I was her age. She would be my age now. She would be pursuing her own career. She never got to grow up. She is frozen in time now. Well, the police were convinced pretty early on that Patsy and or John were involved. And you had a district attorney's office that was saying, not so fast. And that created enormous tension between the two. Did you hear anything yesterday? I think there are some new developments. Alex Hunter, the district attorney, wanted someone to come in with fresh eyes in this case and look at it from the perspective of a defense attorney who might have killed JonBenet as an intruder. Not just the parents, but from the outside. Boer DA Alex Hunter brought Lou Smitt out of retirement to help solve the Ramsey case. One of the great challenges is to try to do the case right. And, you know, I think we're making efforts to meet that challenge by involving people like Lou Smith. My name is Lou Smith. I'm a retired homicide detective from the Colorado Springs Police Department. Legendary guy. And he said, I follow the evidence. I have got to follow the evidence. Doesn't matter what my opinion is, what I might think. I follow the evidence. And he did. And that takes a lot of discipline. Smit had a history of closing cases. He had such tenacity. He was a bulldog. Once he got something in his mind, you know, once he got the reins in his teeth, he was not letting go. Lou Smith was my father. He was just known as, you know, detective that solved cases. When he got to a murder scene, he spent time dictating everything he saw. Where the sun was in the sky, what the weather conditions were like, what the neighboring houses looked like. The legend of Lou Smith is now the stuff of podcasts with granddaughters Jessa and Lexi, unspooling the crime for a new generation. He advocated for the victim and stood in their shoes. So that's why we've chosen the victim's shoes as our podcast name. Prior to this case, Lou Smith had investigated over 200 homicide cases that led to arrests and convictions. Lou dedicated a big part of his life to finding JonBenet's murderer. When he started his investigation, he felt like everybody else did, that it was probably one of the. It seemed as though the parents were probably involved in it. I thought this would be a fairly easy case. I thought it would be a slam dunk. And I even remember talking to my daughter. I kind of joked with her, saying that, you know, if somebody did get in the house, it must have been Santa Claus coming down the chimney. It Was within a couple of days after my dad started on the investigation when he had a chance to review pictures. The evidence that he was already saying, I think that they need to look the other way. He was already noting in his journal that he felt that they needed to look at an intruder. Lou came up with the intruder theory. You can't think about that theory without associating it with Lou Smith. The first thing that stood out to him was an open window in the basement. There was a suitcase propped up against it. He didn't buy the Boulder Police Department's conclusion that no one could get in that basement window. He began to say, maybe somebody did get into that house. And I'll show you how easily it can be done. So what did Lou Smitt do? He went and climbed in the window himself with a camera rolling to prove that it could be done. It really wasn't that difficult coming in that window. But is Smith's own theory compromised by the very crime scene photos he himself has studied? There are cobwebs in the window which could support that no one did go through this window. The big question is, could you have gotten through this window, this small window, without disturbing this cobweb? I think the answer to that is maybe. But the other important point is how soon was this picture taken after JonBenet was killed? Because spiders can replicate webs very fast. Also found in the basement by JonBenet's body, a shoe print, a high tech brand that did not match any of the shoes in the Ramsey's house. The investigators believe, and maybe rightly so, that that's the bad guy's footprint. The counterargument is that footprint image could have been inadvertently left by police officers at the scene. But a more disturbing image in Lou Smith's Investigation comes from two marks left on JonBenet's face and back. The marks themselves, both on the back and on the face, were the same distance apart. Suddenly a little light went on and it was just like, wait a minute, it was a stun gun. Smit looked at other murders where a stun gun was known to have been used. He examined photos of a crime victim who had a known stun gun wound. And the marks are very similar to the face of John Bonane. He also looked into an experiment performed using stun guns on pigs. These marks were also the same as the marks found on JonBenet. When we did the pigs, we get perfect marks, just almost like on the back of JonBenet. This brings back our grandpa's whole motto that things are usually what they seem. Don't make it complicated. To make things less complicated, Smid transferred all his knowledge and thoughts about the case to VHS tape, leaving behind a six hour video presentation of his intruder. The there's no reason at all for the Ramseys to use a stun gun. And the Ramses don't have a stun gun. If it's not a stun gun, what is it? That's the question I always ask you. Tell me what it is. Lou Smith stood up and said, wait a second, we need to look at this again. It actually is possible, it actually is plausible. And in his mind, it's actually the most likely scenario. For there have been challenges from the beginning of this case. There were published reports that the Boulder Police Department refused to accept assistance from outside law enforcement. Denver police called to offer two experienced homicide detectives to come work at Boulder under their direction full time. They turned it down. Do you think if they'd taken the help offered 28 years ago, this case would have been solved by. Oh yeah, I have no doubt. I've been told by experience homicide that detectives over the years, this is not a hard case to solve. But they needed to be on it immediately. Lou Smith thought that the Ramses were being targeted unfairly. Thought there was something drastically wrong. I had seen evidence of an intruder. One thing the police and the district attorney do agree on, Both want the Ramses to come in for a formal videotaped interrogation. And when that day finally comes, it gets heated. Go back to the damn drawing board. I didn't do it. Within a few weeks of JonBenet's murder, police had it important clue. The discovery of foreign DNA found underneath her fingernails and in her underwear. DNA that does not match the Ramsey family. And it shows a foreign male presence. They, they sat on that for months. They knew at the time that there was DNA in their panties, that it was mixed foreign DNA and that it was not for Ramsey's DNA. Not Bessie's, not John's. Detective Lou Smith was like, whoa. While you're pouring water all over the intruder theory, you're not revealing that you have unidentified DNA and it doesn't match anybody in the Ramsey family. Lou is just incensed that the focus is still being. Well, it could be Patsy. Maybe we need to get her to confess. The police had eventually interviewed the couple four months after JonBenet's death. But now authorities want the Ramseys to come in again for videotaped interrogation. There were months and months of negotiations, things about whether they could be videotaped. What are the questions going to be? Should the Boulder police be a part of it? Because the Ramseys said, we don't trust the police. We don't want them there. Ultimately, the interrogation took place at a different police department, and the Boulder police had to watch it from another building. The Ramseys finally sit down with the police for three days of videotaped interrogations in June 1998, a year and a half after JonBenet's murder. We were there for as long as they wanted. Would have stayed for two weeks had they wanted. The myth that we didn't cooperate is nonsense. When you were interrogated by the police, you were interrogated separately? Yes. Today is Wednesday, June 24, 1998. Former President of the Broomfield Police Department, Patricia Ramsey. Tom Haney, who was one of the most respected homicide detectives out of Denver, was chosen to interview Patsy Ramsey. Patsy Ramsey had a year and a half to prepare. I knew that it was going to be tough to get a spontaneous response. Do you ever recall purchasing black duct tape like this? It seems like there can't be a house in the world that doesn't have duct tape because it repairs everything. Well, I never liked. Because it's so gooey. Isn't that gooey? He started out softly and kindly and curious, and then he got pointed with his questions, and that made Patsy angry. If I told you right now that we have in the process of being examined trace evidence that appears to link you to the death of JonBenet, what would you tell me? That's totally impossible? Go retest. How is it impossible? I did not kill my child. I didn't have anything to do with it. She said it was impossible that we had physical evidence linking her to the crime. I'm talking about science. I don't give a flying flip how scientific it is. Go back to the damn drawing board. I didn't do it. John Ramsey didn't do it, and we didn't have a clue of anybody who did do it. I am so taken with her swagger. She just tells them, you know, you think you have some evidence on me. Well, you better look again. We love that child. Okay, we're not involved. Read my lips. Let's find out who is. My life has been hell from that day forward. And I can't stand the thought of thinking that somebody's out here walking on the street. God knows we might do it again to some other child. You know, quit screwing around, asking me about things that are ridiculous. The person that did this, Patsy, was feisty. She was combative. In stark contrast to John Ramsey, who was interrogated by Lou Smith. When Lou interviewed someone, he pried anything out of people just by being understanding and really listening. Now, John, I know this is touching right back on a very dark spot. Was this tape wrapped around? Was it stuck down? It was very firm across her lips. Reached out, flipped the latch, opened the door. Knew immediately what I found. Okay, and you say immediately there was a white blanket. And I just knew I found her. How were you standing? The interrogation tapes are intriguing to watch as there's a lot of raw emotion shown by both John and Patsy Ramsey. But the bottom line is both John and Patsy deny that anyone in their family killed JonBenet. And there was nothing revealed that allowed for charges to be brought against them. And we want to do everything we can to help solve this case for you. My dad's conclusions after that interview were just firmed up his belief that the Ramseys had nothing to do with this murder. I'm not saying parents don't kill their kid. Parents do kill their children. So. But they're trying to say passive. Their actions before, during, and after are all consistent with innocent people. He didn't do it. My dad started getting frustrated as time went on because he felt that the case against the Ramses was being slanted where no other evidence was coming in. I thought there was something drastic and that there was a gross injustice in this case. I had seen evidence of an intruder in the house that night. Lou Smith thought that the Ramseys were being targeted unfairly, and he didn't believe the police were listening to him. Schmidt so strongly disagrees with the prosecutor's focus on the Ramseys that he is resigning from the case, saying, the case tells me John and Patsy Ramsey did not kill their daughter. He wrote a letter to Alex Hunter telling them that he couldn't be a part of the persecution of these people, is how he termed it. He wrote, I intend to stand with this family and somehow help them through this and find the killer of their daughter. My dad may have resigned from the district attorney's office, but he never stopped work on the case. He walked in JonBenet's sh. And he owed it to her, he felt, to continue his investigation. One thing Lou Smith fought to do was tell a grand jury his side of the story. The intruder theory. There were too many unanswered questions. In particular that male DNA in JonBenet's underwear that didn't match anyone that they knew of. Who could it be? Grand jurors arrived at the Boulder County justice center this morning and were escorted into the courthouse by sheriff's deputies. There was enormous pressure on District Attorney Alex Hunter to call for a grand jury and it took him almost two years to actually call one. I think it was the media pro and pressure from the police that forced him to make that call. A lot of work went into it. You have to remember this case was happening just after other high profile murder cases in the country. What did you think of your parents at that point? By October 3rd, I thought they were these great people that I had killed. From the Menendez brothers to O.J. simpson, those high profile cases were on most of the country's mind. Good morning, Council. Most people think that evidence of Simpson's guilt was insurmountable. We the jury, in the above entitled action find the defendant, Orenthal James Simpson not guilty of the crime of murder. And yet he walked. Alex remembered that he told me one time, I don't want to spend two years of my life and $5 million of the taxpayer's money and lose in court. Alex Hunter sat a grand jury for 13 months. Are you surprised by anything you've seen? No. Over 13 months, those people heard over 100 witnesses. My name is Jonathan Webb. I was a grand juror on the JonBenet Ramsey case. It bothers me that the murder of a little girl like this has gone on unsolved for essentially a quarter century. Members of the grand jury looking like detectives themselves as they finally tour the Ramsey house from a crime scene perspective. It was very disturbing how she was found. She's on a concrete floor, a garage around her neck, and she's 6 years old. That's pretty horrible. Webb told us that the grand jury spent most of their time focused on two main issues. First, who wrote that ransom note? We heard from three handwriting experts. And even though the handwriting experts couldn't definitively say that she wrote it, they all three came to the same conclusion, that it could have been Patsy Ramsey. The Ramsey's defense team had their own experts who said that the comparison between the writing on the ransom note and Patsy's handwriting was not conclusive and the grand jury believed that she wrote it. The second focus for the grand jury, according to Jonathan Webb, was the viability of the intruder theory. Schmidt actually presented his intruder theory to the grand jury. This is the very first photo taken of a train room basement window. The window is wide open. Now, if I was a detective, I'd have said, wow, this is entry. But the grand jury wasn't buying the intruder theory because of those cobwebs in the window. The intruder theory didn't make sense to the grand jury. The Boulder police had photographed cobwebs. So for someone to get through a small opening like that and not disturbing a cobweb would be remarkable. A grand jury doesn't decide guilt or innocence the way a regular jury does. The grand jury is only there to decide whether or not there's probable cause to charge the suspects with a crime. We were troubled by to what level of confidence do we need to have to vote to indict? And it's the preponderance of the evidence, which means greater than 50%. And soon after that, we voted to indict. The grand jury was looking at two specific accusations for the Ramseys. Child abuse resulting in death and accessory to a crime. The grand jury couldn't point the finger at Patsy or John specifically, but they were sure that one of them committed the crime and the other person helped to carry it out. This is 7News at 5. There is high anticipation in Boulder right now for a Ramsey decision. And we are about to hear an announcement from Boulder DA Alex Hunter. I and my prosecution task force believe we do not have sufficient evidence to warrant the filing of charges against anyone who has been investigated at this time. I was shocked. It's extremely unusual for a grand jury to vote to charge and the DA not charge. I think deciding not to prosecute the parents for homicide was the right decision. No matter what you believe about the case, it would have been very difficult to get a conviction. Thank you very much. There were too many questions. In particular, that DNA in the underwear that appears to have been from a man didn't match anyone they knew. That's why Lou Smith continued investigating even after he resigned from the case. He had condensed everything he knew about every person of interest into a spreadsheet. It's like a PowerPoint on steroids. It detailed 887 names. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. It's Brad Milkey, host of ABC's Daily News podcast. Start here. You chose to hit play on this podcast today. Smart choice. Make another smart choice with Auto Quote Explorer to compare rates from multiple car insurance companies all at once. Try it@progressive.com Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Not available in all states or situations. Prices vary based on how you buy. Fifty years ago, a young woman named Karen Silkwood got into her car alone. She was reportedly on her way to deliver sensitive documents to a New York Times reporter. She never made it. And those documents she'd agreed to carry were never found. Do you think somebody killed her? There's no question in my mind that someone killed her that night. I think they were trying to stop her in order to get the documents. A new investigation into the life and death of America's first nuclear whistleblower. Listen to Radioactive the Karen Silkwood Mystery from ABC Audio. Listen now wherever you get your podcasts. But I think what turned this whole case has always been DNA. The killer left behind, I believe part of his DNA. On their podcast, Lou Smith's granddaughter spoke about his focus on the DNA in the case over nearly 13 years. Lou took all of the information that he had on this case and developed a database in this particular murder. He thought that DNA would solve this case. And thanks to major advances in DNA, a number of big surprises were about to come to the case. What became groundbreaking at the time was a thing called touch DNA. Essentially, when someone touches something, the skin cells they leave behind can be tested. In 2008, the then district Attorney for Boulder, Mary Lacey decided to do a new round of DNA testing on JonBenet's pajama leggings. Remember, there was already DNA from an unknown male found under JonBenet's fingernails and in her underwear. But analysis of touch DNA on her leggings uncovered something new. DNA from at least one unknown male, maybe two. In recent months, investigators used that new procedure which helped them discover fresh DNA on JonBenet's long johns left by the killer's fingertips. Now new DNA analysis proves just that. The Boulder District Attorney clears all members of the Ramsey family in the murder of their six year old daughter JonBenet. That's a pretty big development. You've got DNA now in three places that doesn't match anybody in the Ramsey family. That's a pretty clear indication that somebody else was there and nobody knows whose DNA it is. This revelation of this new un unmatched DNA drove the District Attorney to announce they're no longer looking at the family. The news broke here at the District Attorney's office with this incredible letter to JonBenet's father. DA Mary Lacey wrote John Ramsey, we do not consider your immediate family, including you, your wife Patsy and your son Burke to be under any suspicion in the commission of this crime. The DA also apologized to the Ramseys. She wrote in part to the extent that we may have contributed in any way to the public perception that you might have been involved in this crime. I am deeply sorry. John Ramsey responded to the DA's letter and the stunning development on a local newscast. We're Certainly grateful for an acknowledgement that we are innocent, that this was an intruder, which, of course, we've always maintained. But this is a reminder how often that they are human beings and how often they get it wrong. How often their biases take them down the wrong path. Somebody told me in the police world, they said, the most dangerous thing is a police department that's made up their mind. And that's really what happened in our case. All it takes is one match to the DNA, and you've possibly nailed the killer. Our killer, John Banana. How many victims has he had in the past? And how many victims is he gonna have in the future? And so this killer could still be murdering even today. Lou Smith dedicated years to investigating the JonBenet Ramsey murder case. But eventually he ran out of time. When he got sick with cancer, he knew that his time was limited. And so during that time, he just talked to others about not letting this case die. He had people coming every single day, 60 to 70, 80 people a day coming to see him. And they said their goodbyes. And during that time, he would still talk about the case. I remember about the last three days, he had slipped into a coma, and the conversations would become one way, you know, and I don't know if you could hear me or not. I'm John Ramsey. I had the opportunity to visit Lou a week before he died. Remarkably, during that time together, Lou talked a lot about the case he hadn't given up. He never, never, never gave up. Lou Smith's legacy lives on. And his tenacity to solve this case was passed on to his daughter, Cindy Mara. And he just said, I have a name. I want you to write it down. And I did. And he said, that's where you start. You know, we'd be glad to pay that. We don't have that electronic report, so we would need Boulder to send it. After my dad died, you know, a couple of us, our family, and then some of his old homicide partners, we just formed a team. You want to go down to number two? Because that is an end state one. What we all share in common is that commitment to fulfill lose dying wish that this case doesn't die with him. And I think it's that devotion, that respect, that love for Lou is what keeps our team moving forward. According to investigators, there were other possible suspects, including a local Santa in town who had previous interactions with the Ramses. There's no way in the world that I could be involved in the death of this little girl, my daughter. But there's another man who comes forward who claims he's responsible for JonBenet's murder. I love John Benet, but I died accidentally. The mystery surrounding the murder of JonBenet Ramsey haunted Lou smitten to the day he died. But he left behind that detailed list, hoping that one day JonBenet's killer would finally be brought to justice. He had condensed everything he knew about every person of interest into a spreadsheet. It was like a PowerPoint on steroids. The spreadsheet detailed 887 names. He wanted us to take the list that he had and try and keep the case alive. Out of those 887 entries, by the time he went into hospice, lou had marked 134cleared. Over the years, there have been many leads that seem promising at one time or another. That new Netflix documentary Making News details how just months after JonBenet's murder, a 12 year old girl who lived less than two miles from the Ramses was attacked as she slept in her bed. Sometime in the late hours, mom hears a noise going on and there was in fact an intruder in her daughter's bedroom preparing to molest her. That person has never been identified. That girl had attended the same dance studio as JonBenet. Are the two cases connected? I don't know. Boulder police said that while the two cases had some similarities, they found no definitive connection in the search for the killer. Investigators chased down countless leads, including a local transient. Here you have Gary Oliva, who apparently on the night or the next day after John was killed, called a friend and told him over the phone that he had hurt a child. All of a sudden I get a phone call and it's Gary. And he's sobbing into the phone like, I've never heard anybody sob in my entire life. I hurt a little girl. He was a homeless man who hung out at a church just a block and a half from the Ramsey's home. And he confessed that he killed JonBenet Ramsey. They took a look at him but eventually eliminated him because there is absolutely no connection between he and the Ramseys and his DNA, they used that to eliminate him. Investigators also looked into Bill McReynolds, a local Santa Claus who'd worked at the Ramsey's holiday parties. John Benet had made a comment that he, Bill McReynolds, was coming to their house to see JonBenet. I think everybody thought that was a little weird. His DNA didn't match and he's out of the picture. And then Alex Hunter, the Boulder county district attorney, speaks directly to the Killer. I want to say something to the person or persons that committed this crime. The list of suspects narrows. Soon there will be no one on the list but you. A day after the DA rattles the cage, a man named Michael Helgoth attracts the attention of authorities. Michael Helgoth evidently committed suicide the day after the Boulder District Attorney threatened that, hey, we're going to find you. The death of this child has broken all of our hearts. We will see that justice is served in this case and that you pay for what you did. That speech was designed to get the killer nervous. When Michael was found dead, there was a stun gun at his residence. Also, there was a pair of high tech boots. These two clues had previously been linked to JonBenet's murder. Stun gun. A bit odd for people to have high tech boots. Fairly common thing for people to have. But the real clincher would be DNA didn't match and he has no connection to the Ramsey family. And so investigators also eliminate Helgoth as a person of interest. Investigators finally felt they had a real break in the case with Jon Mark Carr. He famously claimed he was with JonBenet when she died accidentally. No, her death was. Was an accident. So you were in the basement? Yes. Problem is, he wasn't in Baldwin, Colorado when she died and his DNA didn't match. Even though Carr claimed he was in the basement when JonBenet died, there was just no physical evidence linking him to her murder. And so Carr was eliminated as a suspect. Take a look at it. Decades later, the search still goes on for the little girl's killer. What our team has been doing is focusing on collecting DNA and testing DNA. I think it's imperative that we investigate every credible suspect that's been provided. If we keep at it, hopefully we'll finally whittle it down to one person remaining on that list. Do you think you know who the killer is? You know. No, I don't. And this is a very dark, evil person. I don't know anybody like that. But could advances in DNA technology finally help catch the person who killed JonBenet? The JonBenet Ramsey case is just as mysterious today as it was in 1996 when her devastated parents were left with tiny mementos from their daughter to hold onto. It makes me sad that there were happy little hands in this club. Now they're gone. So the memories bring tears to your eyes, but you're also a little more at peace. I don't know. I don't think I will be at peace until we Find out who did this for Patsy Ramsey. Sadly, her fight to find her daughter's killer ended in 2006 when she passed away. Patsy died of ovarian cancer. Yes. Went through all of that without knowing that she'd been cleared? That's correct. She was buried next to JonBenet in Marietta, Georgia. But the search for justice continued. I think it's even more mysterious now to some degree, because who the heck was in that house? How'd they get in? Why'd they target her? Lou Smith's family, dedicated to keeping the case moving forward, continues to work on whittling down a list they presented to law enforcement in 2020. And what we presented was a confidential list of our top 20 people of interest and the list of the eight people of interest that our team had eliminated through DNA analysis. The technology has just advanced so tremendously. JonBenet's blood was mixed with unknown male DNA in her underpants. And we need to separate out those two profiles, which can be done now, and use genealogical DNA, which has been a huge tool in solving cold cases recently. That technique has solved some old, old dead, cold cases. That's what we're asking the police do. Well, DNA science has progressed significantly since the early years of the JonBenet investigation, and investigators can now work with smaller mixed and degraded samples. There are still significant hurdles. What will be your message to the Boulder Police Department today? Look, just tell us, are you using one of these very cutting edge labs to do additional DNA testing? If you are doing additional DNA testing, that's all I need to know. According to the Boulder pd, investigators are utilizing outside labs and experts in the latest technology. Our collaboration also includes the Colorado Cold Case Review Team, which is a panel of outside experts brought together in December of 2023 to review this case. Our department has had ongoing conversations with JonBenet's family, the last of which occurred in mid-2024. Our goal is to find JonBenet Ramsey's killer. Our commitment to that has never wavered. The family has not lost the will to fight and the will to find the killer. If we can find the killer, then the next generation doesn't have to live with that trauma and the unknown and the speculation. We leverage the evidence, we follow the facts. We will find this killer. My dad certainly suffered a tremendous amount, but I think he's focused on life today and enjoying life with his family and grandkids. And he's remarried, but he says he's still always thinking of JonBenet, trying to focus on the positive of his beautiful little girl who will always be forever young. She knew she was loved. I mean, we told her that every day. Somebody asked me once, what would you say to JonBenet if you could? I would tell her, I'm sorry I didn't protect you. You know, I had JonBenet bless my life for six years, and she really was a Blessing. The Boulder DA tells 2020 that the office is continuing to work with federal, state and local agencies to make progress on this tragic case. And David Lou Smith's family says they're determined to continue making their way through that list. We're going to stay on this story. That's our program for tonight. I'm Deborah Roberts. And I'm David Muir. From all of us here at 2020 and ABC News, good night.