Mangione Episode 1: Christmastime in Altoona

Summary

Podcast Summary: 20/20 – Burden of Proof: Luigi Mangione

Episode 1: Christmastime in Altoona

Published: August 10, 2026
Host: Brian Buckmire (ABC News Legal Analyst)
Featured Guests/Reporters: Aaron Katerski, Maria Kramer, Josh Margolin, Amanda Hirsch

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Overview

The debut of ABC’s "Burden of Proof: Luigi Mangione" explores the case that gripped the country: the fatal shooting of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson on a New York City sidewalk in December 2024. With the alleged shooter, Luigi Mangione, now awaiting trial, the series investigates the dramatic crime, the ensuing manhunt, and the broader conversation it sparked about the American healthcare system. Episode 1 reconstructs the events from the murder itself to Mangione’s dramatic arrest in Altoona, Pennsylvania, five days later.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Altoona McDonald's Arrest

• Setting: December 9, 2024, Altoona, Pennsylvania [03:53]
  • A McDonald’s manager calls 911, reporting a suspicious man resembling the NYC “CEO shooter.”
  • Police Patrolmen Detwiler and rookie officer Fry respond, skeptical but diligent.
• The Arrest Process [04:28 – 07:00]
  • The suspect, eating quietly in a holiday-decorated McDonald’s, provides ID as "Mark Rosario" (later found to be fake).
  • He is soon identified as Luigi Mangione, the wanted suspect.
  • Officers swiftly call for backup. Nearly a fifth of Altoona PD converges.
• Body Camera Footage & Calm Demeanor [05:27, 35:17]
  • Mangione stays calm, even eating his breakfast as police surround him.
  • Officers find a loaded 9mm gun wrapped in wet gray underwear, $7,800 in cash, foreign currency, a passport, and incriminating handwritten notes.
  • Notable moment: As he’s arrested, Bing Crosby’s “I’ll Be Home for Christmas” plays in the background. [32:39]

“As Luigi Mangione is being formally placed under arrest, the speakers above are blaring Bing Crosby singing, ‘I'll be home for Christmas.’”
— Aaron Katerski [32:39]

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2. Reconstructing the Murder

• Timeline: December 4, 2024, Midtown Manhattan [08:51 – 13:37]
  • Surveillance footage: A masked, hooded man leaves a youth hostel before dawn, circles the Hilton Hotel, and lies in wait.
  • At 6:44 am, Thompson exits the hotel, completely unaware he is being stalked.
  • The attacker fires three times, wounding Thompson fatally before fleeing on an e-bike through Central Park. The city’s camera coverage loses sight of him for hours.
• Police Theories and Investigation [17:16 – 20:47]
  • Was the motive personal or corporate? Early clues point to a message aimed at the healthcare industry.
  • At the crime scene, shell casings are found labeled with: "Delay," "Deny," "Depose."
  • The shooting was “brazen,” yet the killer's actions were too amateurish for a professional hit.

“There were words written in Sharpie on each of them. Delay, deny, depose… Instantly, police believed that was meant to send a message.”
— Aaron Katerski [18:46]

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3. Public Perception and The Media Frenzy

• Internet Reaction [22:57 – 24:03]
  • The suspect’s looks spark a social media obsession, comparing him to Jake Gyllenhaal and Zayn Malik.
  • Some online root for Mangione, framing him as a vigilante against the healthcare system.
  • Jokes and sarcasm flood the internet, deflecting sympathy from the slain executive.

"Instead of helping law enforcement hunt for the shooter, some people seem to be rooting for him to get away."
— Brian Buckmire [23:24]

• Satire and Critique:
  • Even Saturday Night Live parodies the dual reactions: outrage at the murder, and inappropriate admiration for the suspect. [27:41]

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4. The Manhunt

• Investigation Details [21:47 – 27:12]
  • Police follow bus routes from Atlanta, where Mangione’s Greyhound originated, to New York.
  • Despite leads, tip lines, and rewards, it is ultimately a mundane tip from a McDonald's manager that breaks the case.
• Critical Find:
  • Two days post-murder, police find the suspect’s gray backpack by Central Park’s bandshell, containing Monopoly money—a possible taunt.

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5. Evidence, Motive, and Symbolism

• Evidence in the Backpack [36:34 – 39:37]
  • 9mm handgun (with 3D-printed receiver and silencer), escape route notes, a “to-do” list (altering appearance, camera avoidance), and a diary with anti-corporate, anti-insurance rhetoric.
  • A letter addressed "to the feds" apologizing for “strife or trauma” but justifying the act as retribution against “parasites” in healthcare.

“The exact language was, ‘What do you do? You whack the CEO at the annual parasitic bean counter convention. It's targeted, precise, and doesn't risk innocence.’”
— Brian Buckmire quoting Mangione's notebook [38:19]

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6. Legal and Social Implications

• Motive and Impact
  • Mangione was not a UnitedHealthcare customer; motive appears ideological.
  • The shell casing labels and diary frame the crime as a protest against so-called injustices in American healthcare.
  • The shooting “laid bare this wound in American culture.” [41:08]
• Charges and Next Steps
  • Mangione pleads not guilty to both Pennsylvania state and federal charges (forgery, false ID, firearms).
  • The murder’s symbolism dominates discourse: is Mangione a villain, a vigilante, or a product of a broken national system?
• Reflection on Victim and Suspect
  • The show pauses on how both men were thrust into something far bigger—a national frenzy and symbol-laden tragedy.

“It is unfair that one person, this man who's been murdered, is being held responsible in the public's eyes for the failings of an entire industry and, frankly, a system.”
— Amanda Hirsch [41:57]

“A murder is a murder… I cannot reconcile that there is such a thing as a just murder.”
— Aaron Katerski [42:12]

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Memorable Moments & Notable Quotes

• The arrest with Christmas music:

  • “As Luigi Mangione is being formally placed under arrest, the speakers above are blaring Bing Crosby singing ‘I'll be home for Christmas.’” — Aaron Katerski [32:39]

• The shell casings clue:

  • “Delay, deny, depose. One word on each shell casing. Instantly, police believed that was meant to send a message.” — Aaron Katerski [18:46]

• On public reaction:

  • “Some people online seem to revel not just in the suspect's handsomeness, but in the murder itself.” — Brian Buckmire [23:08]

• On the meaning of the crime:

  • “What happened was that shooting really laid bare this wound. In American culture.” — Aaron Katerski [41:08]

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Important Timestamps

• [03:53] McDonald's manager calls in the tip
• [04:28 – 06:04] Officers encounter Mangione and verify ID
• [08:51 – 13:37] Timeline of the murder and escape in Manhattan
• [18:33 – 19:33] Discovery of shell casings with messages
• [22:57 – 24:03] Social media’s fascination with the suspect
• [27:41] SNL’s take on public reaction
• [32:39] Mangione’s arrest to “I’ll Be Home for Christmas”
• [36:34 – 39:37] Backpack search & key evidence
• [41:08 – 42:18] Panel reflections on the societal implications

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Summary Takeaway

The first episode of "Burden of Proof: Luigi Mangione" intricately interweaves the mechanics of a riveting manhunt with a sobering assessment of America’s healthcare and cultural wounds. Through first-hand accounts, real-time audio, and social commentary, listeners are given an unvarnished look at the facts, the frenzy, and the unresolved questions that frame not just a shocking assassination but a wider national reckoning.

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Next Episode Preview:
Future episodes will delve deeper into Mangione’s background, the ongoing legal battle over evidence, media coverage, and how an ordinary young man became a lightning rod in America’s debate over justice and healthcare.

Transcript

[Brian Buckmire]

Hi, I'm ABC News legal analyst Brian Buckmire. You might remember me as the host of the award winning podcast Bad Rap the Case Against Diddy. And now I'm back with a new true crime podcast from ABC Audio in 2020 called Burden of Proof. Luigi Mangione. In December 2024, UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson was fatally shot on a New York City sidewalk. Soon, Luigi Mangione is scheduled to stand trial for the murder and face other charges in New York State court, followed by a federal trial in January 2027. He's pled not guilty to all charges. From the very beginning, this case has captivated the country and affected the conversation about healthcare in America. And in this new podcast, I'll go inside it all from the manhunt to to the frenzy Mangione's capture sparked to the different paths of these two men before authorities say they ended up on opposite sides of a loaded gun. Keep listening now to hear episode one. If you like it, we're sharing new episodes right here on Mondays for the next four weeks. You can also hear it ad free by subscribing to 2020 True Crime plus on Apple Podcasts. Now here's episode one of Burden of Proof.

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[McDonald's Manager]

What is the address of your emergency?

[Brian Buckmire]

It's December 9, 2024, in Altoona, Pennsylvania, a small town between Pittsburgh and Harrisburg.

[McDonald's Manager]

It's not really an emergency. I just. I'm a manager at Plank Road McDonald's out here on the Boulevard.

[Brian Buckmire]

A McDonald's manager says there's a guy eating a hash brown and steak McMuffin in the corner of her restaurant. He's sitting by the bathroom wearing a tan beanie and a blue medical mask.

[McDonald's Manager]

I have a custom that some other customers were suspicious of, that he looked like the CEO shooter in New York.

[Brian Buckmire]

Okay, the CEO shooter from New York. The one whose face has been all over the news for five days ever since he allegedly shot and killed an executive in midtown Manhattan. She says she's not sure it's him, but she's calling it in. Anyway, because she says customers keep bringing

[McDonald's Manager]

it up to her, so they're just really upset, and they're, like, coming to me. And I was like, well, I can't approach them, you know? No, of course not. I have to try to calm them down a little bit. And I'm like, guys, it's kind of hard to tell with his eyes and his eyebrows. I was like, I don't know what to do here, guys. Nah, you're fine. You're fine.

[Brian Buckmire]

Less than five minutes into the call, the operator tells the manager that police officers have been notified. Two patrolmen are on their way to the Plank Road McDonald's.

[McDonald's Manager]

Just keep an eye on him. If he leaves, just give us a call back and let us know. Okay? All righty. Will do. All right, thank you. Thanks. Bye. Bye.

[Brian Buckmire]

When Patrolman Joseph Detweiler gets the call to respond to the McDonald's, he's also skeptical. Someone snacking on a McDonald's sandwich in Detweiler's small town. He thinks, no way this guy's the CEO shooter. In fact, he is so sure, he says he makes a bet with his supervisor.

[Aaron Katerski]

If it really turns out to be the guy wanted for murder in New York, I'll buy you a hoagie at your favorite sandwich shop.

[Brian Buckmire]

That's my colleague, Aaron Katerski, chief investigative correspondent at ABC News. He's been following this case closely from the very beginning. In state court, he heard officers testify about the McDonald's call. Officer Detwiler, a veteran on the force, said he spent the morning driving around Altoona with rookie cop Tyler Fry. Detwiler was training Frey in traffic stops when they got the call. They arrived at the McDonald's around 9:29am it was decked out for the holidays.

[Aaron Katerski]

The Christmas tree painted on the window matched the golden arches. There was Christmas music playing in the background.

[Brian Buckmire]

We reviewed body camera footage from when the officers first walk in, and if you listen closely, you can hear that Christmas music. As the officers walk inside, you can see touchscreens for self checkout, garland decorating the registers and signs for $5 meal deals. The officers head past the registers and booths straight to the back corner of

[Aaron Katerski]

the restaurant, an area by the restroom where there's a lone individual with a mask against a white subway tile wal.

[Brian Buckmire]

There's a brown McDonald's bag and a napkin on the table in front of him. Detwiler asks the customer to pull down his mask down with the phone.

[Mark Rosario (alias)]

Yeah, sure.

[Brian Buckmire]

Appreciate it.

[Officer Fry]

Thank you.

[Brian Buckmire]

Okay, thanks. The man pulls down his mask and leaves it just under his chin. He's looking up at Detwiler from the metal restaurant chair as he fiddles with the mask loop around his ear.

[Aaron Katerski]

And he testified that almost immediately he recognized him as the individual wanted for the murder of Brian Thompson in New York City.

[Brian Buckmire]

The man tells the officers his name is Mark what? Rosario.

[Police Official]

Rosario.

[McDonald's Manager]

Someone called.

[Brian Buckmire]

They thought you were suspicious. Did you have your ID on you?

[Aaron Katerski]

Yes.

[Mark Rosario (alias)]

Thanks.

[Brian Buckmire]

He hands him a driver's license. It says he's Mark Rosario from Maplewood, New Jersey. Police call the IDN to dispatch and establish it's a fake and this man isn't Mark Rosario from Maplewood, New Jersey. But you already knew that, didn't you? The man sitting up against that subway tile wall is identified by authorities as Luigi Mangione, the man accused of fatally shooting UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson on a New York City sidewalk just five days earlier. Police and prosecutors say Mangione's their guy. He faces charges in both New York State and federal court. Mangione says he's innocent. People have all kinds of opinions about this alleged killer. Is he a cold blooded murderer or a hero vigilante? But we're going to start at the very beginning of this story. Before there was talk of heroes or villains, before this case threw the spotlight onto America's broken healthcare industry, before most people knew the names Brian Thompson or Luigi Mancione. We're going back to when this was just about finding a gunman who vanished in the middle of Manhattan. From ABC Audio In 2020, I'm Brian Buckmire, an attorney and ABC News legal analyst. And this is Burden of Proof. Luigi Mangione. Episode one, Christmas Time In Altoona. It was the morning of December 4, 2024. Preparations were underway for the annual Christmas tree lighting in Rockefeller Center. Millions of tourists were streaming in from around the country and the world. Just a few blocks away, UnitedHealth Group, the parent company of UnitedHealthcare, which is the biggest health insurer in the country, was holding an investors conference at the Midtown Manhattan Hilton. Brian Thompson, the CEO of UnitedHealthcare, was in town from Minnesota to attend. Meanwhile, police say a man at a youth hostel on the Upper west side of Manhattan was getting ready to commit murder. And by the way, what you're about to hear is based on law enforcement's sequence of events. After examining hours of surveillance footage and leapfrogging from camera to camera across New York City, they say they've pieced together the whereabouts of this man. On this day in 2024, here's Aaron Katerski again.

[Aaron Katerski]

It's about 5:30 in the morning, before dawn.

[Brian Buckmire]

Surveillance footage shows that the man leaves the hostel, gets on an E bike and rides downtown. He arrives at the Hilton hotel's north entrance. Eleven minutes later, he's at West 54th street between 6th and 7th Avenue.

[Aaron Katerski]

He's seen walking, seemingly talking on a cell phone. He goes to Starbucks where he buys a water and a granola bar, a

[Brian Buckmire]

kind bar, police say to be specific. The details matter here.

[Aaron Katerski]

And then eventually he circles around back toward the Hilton Hotel. And there is where police say he was lying in wait for his target.

[Brian Buckmire]

He allegedly lingers outside, masked, wearing a black hooded jacket and a distinctive gray backpack. What happens next will be captured on surveillance cameras, released to the public and played all over the news. At 6:44am, Brian Thompson comes out of the hotel where he was staying wearing a crisp blue suit. He crosses 6th Avenue toward the Hilton, where he's set to present in about an hour. Why is he leaving so early? We don't know. Maria Kramer reports on crime and the NYPD for the New York Times and covered this case from the start.

[Maria Kramer]

He's all by himself, does not seem to be aware that he's terrible danger.

[Brian Buckmire]

Up to this point, the masked man has been ignoring everyone passing by him on the street.

[Maria Kramer]

But it's at that moment that he fixates on Brian Thompson and crosses the street, steps out from behind a car, pulls up a weapon.

[Brian Buckmire]

He aims at Brian Thompson's back as a CEO is walking away from him and fires. The gun seems to jam, but the shooter appears to clear the malfunctions. In total, he fires at his victim three times from about 10 or 12ft

[Maria Kramer]

away, striking him in the calf and striking him in the back. And Brian Thompson barely has time to whirl around to see what's happened when he collapses on the sidewalk, crumbling against a wall nearby.

[Brian Buckmire]

It's still early in the morning. There are only a few people out on the street. But in the surveillance footage you can see one woman on the sidewalk. She sees the shooting and bolts unharmed.

[Maria Kramer]

The gunman, however, just seems very calm, very composed, and he walks towards Brian Thompson, who's now dying and bleeding on the sidewalk and appears to fire his gun again. And then he runs across the street.

[Aaron Katerski]

It was a brazen assassination style killing.

[Brian Buckmire]

And this happened on an avenue of fancy hotels and banks, right in the heart of New York City, Right by Radio City Music hall and Rockefeller center, right by Broadway's glitzy theaters and Fifth Avenue's designer stores like Gucci, Coach and Chanel. Now it's a race against the clock for emergency personnel to respond to the scene, for the police to investigate, and for the shooter to not get away.

[Aaron Katerski]

As soon as the shots were fired, the killer escapes 54th street through an alleyway, a short alleyway onto West 55th street, and somewhere hops on a bicycle, an E bike stashed somewhere nearby.

[Brian Buckmire]

While the killer is fleeing, police call in the shooting over the radio.

[McDonald's Manager]

Confines of Midtown north getting unconfirmed shots fired, possible person shot having in the

[Brian Buckmire]

Americas, Police are on the scene by 6:48am Officers tend to Thompson until an ambulance arrives. Eight minutes later, they rush Thompson to a nearby hospital. At the same time, surveillance footage shows the gunman riding into Central park just six blocks away.

[Aaron Katerski]

And from there, the trail goes cold. Because as many cameras as there are covering New York City streets, there are not as many in Central Park. And so his trail goes a bit cold until he's seen exiting the park on the bike and pedaling in the Upper west side of Manhattan.

[Brian Buckmire]

From there, things unfold quickly.

[Aaron Katerski]

By 7am, the suspect is seen ditching the bike, according to police. And at 7:04, he's in a cab heading uptown. And police say he was headed to the bus terminal by the George Washington Bridge.

[Brian Buckmire]

By 7:12am, Brian Thompson is pronounced dead at Mount Sinai West Hospital. In a city full of cameras and people and subways, how could someone kill a CEO and in the middle of midtown Manhattan, then just disappear? Where could he have gone? By the time most people are waking up and getting ready to head to work, a national manhunt is underway. The NYPD will work with the FBI and eventually members of the small but now famous Altoona Police Department in Pennsylvania. Over the course of the search, officers will deploy drones, K9 units, and scuba divers. They'll pore over surveillance footage from across Manhattan. They'll sort through hundreds of tips from the public, all to find one man.

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[ESPN Fantasy Football Announcer]

There's a headline every 30 minutes for our show.

[Amanda Hirsch]

I'm pretty sure.

Welcome to Get Real. I'm your host Amanda Hirsch. This is the show for the reality TV obsessed.

[Brian Buckmire]

You thought the show was crazy living.

[McDonald's Manager]

It was crazy.

[Mark Rosario (alias)]

I was dripping sweat before I even

[Amanda Hirsch]

started for the stars and stans of the Hula reality verse.

[Brian Buckmire]

Do we think she's stirring the pot to secure a place on the show?

[Amanda Hirsch]

Find and listen to Get Real wherever you get your podcasts and stream new episodes Thursdays on Hulu and Hulu on Disney terms apply.

[Brian Buckmire]

Brian Thompson was a 50 year old corporate executive from Minnesota. In one of the widely circulated pictures of him, he's wearing a light blue collared shirt under a quarter zip black sweater. He's got a closely trimmed beard with some specks of gray on his chin. He was a husband and a father of two. Why would someone shoot him on a midtown street? The NYPD Police Commissioner said from the start that it was a deliberate assassination.

[Mark Rosario (alias)]

I want to be clear at this time. Every indication is that this was a premeditated pre planned targeted attack.

[Brian Buckmire]

Thompson wasn't just any CEO. He was an executive at a health insurance company and one of the biggest companies in the United States. The police cycled through lots of potential theories on the shooter's motive. Was it a vendetta against Brian Thompson? Personally? Did he owe people money? Was it a drug thing? An alcohol thing?

[Josh Margolin]

The police determine there's none of that.

[Brian Buckmire]

That's Chief investigative reporter Josh Margolin, who was also following this investigation for ABC News.

[Josh Margolin]

It looks to them in the earliest hours that this is something having to do with UnitedHealthcare. Now, they didn't know if it was going to be some sort of a grudge against the company by somebody who, you know, was an insurance customer, or maybe it was somebody inside the company who had been denied a promotion or some sort of a workplace thing. Cause that happens also. But they felt confident that this was going to be something associated with Brian Thompson for his workplace.

[Brian Buckmire]

And that's because of an early clue police say they found at the crime scene.

[Police Official]

At the scene, we recover three live 9 millimeter rounds and three discharged 9 millimeter shell casings.

[Brian Buckmire]

Bullets and shell casings. Here's Aaron Katerski again.

[Aaron Katerski]

There were words written in Sharpie on each of them. Delay, deny, depose. One word on each shell casing that had been meticulously handwritten. And instantly police believed that was meant to send a message.

[Brian Buckmire]

Delay, deny, depose. Words used by insurance critics to describe how companies avoid paying claims. The words also echo the title of a book. Delay, deny, defend, why insurance companies don't pay claims and what you can do about it. Maria Kramer, the New York Times reporter, says police determined the message on these shell casings seemed like it was left there by a person with an ideology.

[Maria Kramer]

The police have a sense that the person who has done this has a problem with corporate America, specifically the health care industry. This is motivated very much by who Brian Thompson was, maybe not as a person, but certainly what he represent as an industry leader.

[Brian Buckmire]

In addition to those shell casings, investigators find a cell phone, a water bottle, and a kind bar wrapper at the scene. They lift DNA and fingerprints, hoping to identify the shooter, but they don't get any hits. They also examine the shooter's demeanor and method. Could he be a hitman? Ultimately, they reject that theory.

[Josh Margolin]

First of all, they noticed how far away the shooter was from Brian Thompson. Detectives were saying to us that if this had been somebody who was really a trained assassin, he wouldn't have fired from 10 or 12ft away. He would have fired from 5 or 7ft away. He also, not to be gruesome about it, but he took off before he made sure that his victim was dead. And trained assassins would not do that. Like you see in the movies, they're gonna make sure that they put the final kill shot into the victim. And that didn't happen.

[Brian Buckmire]

Also, Josh points out, according to experts, the killer was too sloppy to be a hired hitman. There were too many things left at the scene, things that could have been traced back to him. A hired assassin wouldn't do that. Authorities also look for clues in the grainy CCTV footage of the shooting. The murder weapon looks to authorities like a really rare gun. So they look up recent sales of this type of gun and spot a sale at a Connecticut gun store. But that lead doesn't go anywhere either. As the days go on, police turn to the public to help identify the killer. The day after the shooting, they start releasing photos of the gunman from around the city.

[NYPD Official]

We're encouraging New Yorkers to go about their daily lives and their daily business, but to be alert. We put the picture out. You're putting the picture out. We want people to take a look if they see anything suspicious, if they hear anything suspicious. We asked him to call 911 and reach out to our detectives.

[Brian Buckmire]

There are two pictures from the Starbucks in Midtown taken right before the shooting. The man with his hood over his head, that distinctive gray backpack over his shoulders, and a mask across his face. There's another two pictures of the suspect getting into a cab. His distinct eyes and thick eyebrows are visible above his medical mask. And then there are two photos from the hostel where he was allegedly staying for a few days before the shooting. He's still got his hood on in these pictures, but you can see his whole face. A young face, square jaw, neutral in one, smiling in the other. This moment when he was checking into the hostel is the only time we see him unguarded, the only time he took his mask down, according to police. Some people online speculate he was smiling because he had been flirting with the clerk behind the hostel counter. Others think he was just obliging her and checking his id. When the photos are released, people on the Internet take notice. They say he's a little easy on the eyes. They compare him to Jake Gyllenhaal and Zayn Malik.

[Mark Rosario (alias)]

Oh, my God. He's fit. He's fit. He's fit. Call everybody back in right now. He's attractive. He's attractive. He's attractive.

[Brian Buckmire]

Some people online seem to revel not just in the suspect's handsomeness, but in the murder itself.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Let's see what the comments have to say. The hospital in network. Did he really need to go to the er?

[Brian Buckmire]

It's not covered.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Why didn't he try urgent care? Sending prior authorization, denied claims, collections and prayers to his family.

[Brian Buckmire]

My condolences are out of network. Unless you about to raise everybody's medical debt or give US Universal health care. You are not finding this mother. Promise you that. Instead of helping law enforcement hunt for the shooter, some people seem to be rooting for him to get away.

[Josh Margolin]

You have this whole community on social media and on the Internet that's out there saying they don't want the suspect caught. This explosion of sarcasm they're talking about, he went that away. He went that away. There are people who are saying, I'll hide the guy. I'm him. I'm gonna, you know, help him on the run.

[Brian Buckmire]

The Altoona McDonald's eventually got swept up in all of this. It was flooded with one star Yelp reviews about employees talking too much. One person wrote, more like Narc Donald's. While things unfold online on the ground, officers continue their sprawling search for the suspect.

[Josh Margolin]

NYPD deploys an army to Manhattan. They have cops all over the crime scene, in the area around the crime scene, going door to door, talking to people, trying to get video. You have cops by the hostel where he stayed. You have cops uptown around the area where he comes out of the park and he's seen on the bike. You have scuba divers in Central park diving looking for the bike. Maybe he ditched it into the lake. You have drones overhead trying to see what they can tell. Is there something over the park? Is there something on the street?

[Brian Buckmire]

Two days after the shooting, they find something by the Central park bandshell. A gray backpack. It looks like the one the shooter is wearing in the surveillance footage from outside the Hilton.

[Aaron Katerski]

And that backpack included a Tommy Hilfiger jacket and Monopoly money. And the play money to detectives seemed like some kind of message the killer was trying to send, literally toying with investigators. Play money.

[Brian Buckmire]

There's no helpful evidence, nothing tying anyone to the crime, just the Monopoly money. Like something straight out of a Batman comic with the riddler leaving a stack of play money behind. Police are also trying to figure out where the suspect might have fled. They only learn later that he did not leave from the George Washington Bridge uptown bus terminal, that he actually went back downtown on the subway to Penn Station, about seven miles away.

[Maria Kramer]

Penn Station is one of the busiest places in New York. You've got trains going to Washington, D.C. boston, Philadelphia.

[Brian Buckmire]

But in the early days of the manhunt, investigators think if they can figure out where the gunman came from, they can figure out where he went. So they say they rewind surveillance footage all the way back to 10 days before the shooting. And when they do that, they see the gunman arriving in New York through the Port Authority bus terminal. His Greyhound bus originated in Atlanta. The first thing he did when he arrived, according to police, was go straight to the Hilton to, quote, case the joint. So law enforcement fans out all along the bus route starting in Atlanta.

[Josh Margolin]

They sent police to every single jurisdiction along the way. 13 stops coming up to New York. And they wanted to find out, did anybody see him? When did he get on, when did he get off? Did he say anything to anybody from that search?

[Brian Buckmire]

The police tell ABC News privately they had two possible persons of interest, but they didn't end up arresting either of those people.

[Josh Margolin]

Turns out the police really weren't any closer to catching the shooter than they had been.

[Brian Buckmire]

No arrest is made. The manhunt continues. The NYPD offers a $10,000 reward. Then the FBI joins in and offers a $50,000 reward. Hundreds of tips come in, but they're no help. One day passes, two days, three, four, five. Still no arrest over the weekend. Saturday Night Live pokes fun at the reactions to the shooting.

[Aaron Katerski]

The guy was murdered in cold blood. And the two main reactions were, yeah, well, health care stinks. And also, girl, that's shooter hot.

[Brian Buckmire]

And pokes fun at the ongoing search for the shooter. Josh Margolin says that after five or six days pass in a search like this, police fear that the hunt might not end until the suspect makes a mistake or they get a lucky break. Well, on the sixth day, they do get a lucky break. That call from the McDonald's and Altoona, Pennsylvania,

[ESPN Fantasy Football Announcer]

Stassi is back.

[Brian Buckmire]

Most people know me from Banner pump

[Maria Kramer]

rules, but I'm a mom, a wife, a podcaster.

[Amanda Hirsch]

I'm traumatized by reality tv, but I

[Brian Buckmire]

can't stay away from it.

[Amanda Hirsch]

It's like if they're not on your

[McDonald's Manager]

payroll, they don't get to be in your life.

[Officer Fry]

Wow.

[Amanda Hirsch]

Reality has never been this real.

[Maria Kramer]

Not everyone is built for this.

[Brian Buckmire]

I'm not here to ice anyone else, but when you said that don't cut me off this time. I get to to do it on my terms. I showed up for you. What could go wrong?

[Amanda Hirsch]

House of stasi, Wednesdays at 10 on Freeform and now streaming on Hulu.

[Brian Buckmire]

The Hulu original series Furious, now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney.

[Maria Kramer]

Plus, there are three victims we know of.

[Amanda Hirsch]

The suspect is female, white, late twenties.

[Josh Margolin]

Female serial killers kill for power, control.

[Maria Kramer]

I believe there's a deeper motivation here.

[Officer Fry]

You have no idea who you're dealing with. Dealing with, and you are gonna end up dead.

[Maria Kramer]

I've been waiting for you.

[Brian Buckmire]

Watch the Hulu original series Furious, now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney plus for monthly subscribers. Terms apply.

[Officer Fry]

FX presents the shards. Los Angeles, 1981.

[Brian Buckmire]

We're gonna roll the school, don't we already?

[Officer Fry]

It was supposed to be the best year of their lives.

[Maria Kramer]

I would stab someone for a drink right now.

[Officer Fry]

Until their friends started going missing.

[Brian Buckmire]

There's something going on.

[Officer Fry]

From executive producer Ryan Murphy. And based on the bestselling thriller by Brett Easton ellis. Sounds terrifying. FX's the shards, now streaming on Hulu.

[Brian Buckmire]

Five days after the murder, Officer Detwiler and Officer Fry are in the Altuna McDonald's. They're beginning to question the customer that the manager called about. The one we now know is Luigi Mangione. To officers at the time, Mangione wasn't Mangione yet. He was just a man at a fast food restaurant eating his breakfast. A man who allegedly handed over a fake license when officers asked for his id. You heard a brief body camera recording earlier in the episode, but the rest of the hour long encounter hasn't been released to the public yet. But lucky for us, Aaron Katurski was in court for a pretrial hearing where attorneys played and replayed the body camera video in its entirety over and over

[Aaron Katerski]

and over again, every angle from every officer that came to the McDonald's in response to this man sitting in the corner eating his breakfast.

[Brian Buckmire]

After the man handed over the Mark Rosario id, Officer Detwiler testified that something crucial happened, something that sort of sealed the deal on the officer's suspicion.

[Aaron Katerski]

There's a question that Detweiler asks the man, which is, have you ever been in New York? And at that point, the man falls silent and doesn't really answer the question.

[Brian Buckmire]

Court records say Mangione begins to shake. Watching the video in court, Aaron didn't quite see it that way. He thought Mangione was more mellow than panicked. But he does agree Mangione fell silent.

[Aaron Katerski]

And that seemed to firm up the officer's suspicion that this is exactly who they're looking for.

[Brian Buckmire]

According to court documents, Detwiler asked Mangione to put his hands on his head and the officers frisk him before ordering him to sit back down. He's got a black backpack with him. Officers at this point move the backpack away from Mangione. And then at around 9:45 in the morning, about 15 minutes into the interaction, the officers establish his real identity.

[Aaron Katerski]

He says his name and at first none of the officers can quite get it. Luigi. Luigi. Luigi. How do you spell it? And then Mangioni. Mangy. What? And then it's written down by officer Fry in a small notebook you'd keep in your back pocket.

[Brian Buckmire]

It's then that officers read Mangione his Miranda warnings. You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in court, etc. They place him under arrest, handcuffed, and zip tie his wrist. And in an ironic twist, as Luigi

[Aaron Katerski]

Mangione is being formally placed under arrest, the speakers above are blaring Bing Crosby singing I'll be home for Christmas.

[Brian Buckmire]

I'll be home for Christmas. You can plan.

[Aaron Katerski]

And at that point, it becomes clear that Mangione will not be home for Christmas.

[Brian Buckmire]

Once police have a name Luigi Mangione, they run it through their databases and things accelerate. Officers search him again and find nothing.

[Aaron Katerski]

And then his backpack is moved a bit farther away from him as the officers call supervisors and start to figure out how to handle this guy.

[Brian Buckmire]

At this point, it's not just Detwiler and Fry dealing with Mangione. Lots of officers show up. Aaron says they're positioned near the restroom. Eventually, they're standing around Mangione kind of filling in this whole corner where he's seated.

[Aaron Katerski]

And eventually there are more than a dozen officers that come to the McDonald's and participate in one way or another,

[Brian Buckmire]

a substantial portion, nearly a fifth of the entire Altoona police department. Next, body camera footage shows that they search Mangione's backpack. They search him again, too, checking his jacket and frisking him, say defense attorneys.

[Aaron Katerski]

He's wearing multiple layers of clothing, big puffy coat and then a thinner jacket, shirt, undershirt. He's got several pairs of pants on. And one of the officers begins to search the backpack. And as she does, she pulls out a pair of, as she described it, wet gray underwear. And wrapped in that article is a

[Brian Buckmire]

magazine, ammunition, a loaded gun, magazine wrapped in wet underwear. Plus, police say they found approximately $7,800 in cash in his wallet, along with some foreign currency and a passport. They say they searched the backpack right then and there without getting a warrant to make sure there wasn't a, quote, bomb or anything in here. For a guy who's surrounded by over a dozen cops getting searched and questioned, Mangioni appears to keep a pretty calm demeanor.

[Aaron Katerski]

He does seem calm. And at one point, as the officers are checking his id, even as they're arrayed around him, he carries on eating his breakfast and finishes the sandwich, wipes his mouth, crumples up the paper, collects his trash and puts it all in the bag.

[Brian Buckmire]

Eventually, Mangione gets transported to the Altoona police precinct and brought to an intake area. And let me tell you, as a defense attorney who's seen the intake process many, many times, in general, it's a pretty miserable scene. Your pockets get emptied. Eventually there's some fingerprinting, photos get taken, and then you get put in a jail cell, that loud clanking, door closing behind you. But Mangione also went through another layer of search.

[Aaron Katerski]

What's done, the Altoona police said, per their protocol, is effectively a strip search. And so he is made to take off most of the layers of clothing and eventually all of it so they can do a thorough search of his person. And then they go through item by item in the backpack and. And place it all on a table.

[Brian Buckmire]

And what gets laid out on the table, police say, is really damning stuff.

[Aaron Katerski]

And those are the items that prosecutors now say prove the crime.

[Brian Buckmire]

A 9 millimeter handgun with a 3D printed receiver and a homemade silencer.

[Aaron Katerski]

There are other items that prosecutors are quite interested in, including scraps of paper where it appears Mangioni wrote notes to himself. Prosecutor says some of those notes indicated escape routes where there are crude maps drawn where you could get out of Pittsburgh or Columbus, Ohio, or something like that. There's also a note labeled to do list.

[Brian Buckmire]

According to court documents, the alleged to do list included notes to alter his appearance, change hat, shoes, pluck eyebrows, and bust a pen station. It also said keep momentum, break cam

[Aaron Katerski]

continuity, as if he knew there were cameras following his movements. And another telling bit of writing, especially to prosecutors, FBI slower overnight. And these were little reminders, perhaps to himself, the way prosecutors see it, to try and stay on the run and out of sight as long as possible.

[Brian Buckmire]

There were two other handwritten items that for police were bombshell pieces of evidence. One, the contents of a red hardcover notebook authorities say Mangione used as his diary.

[Aaron Katerski]

The target is insurance. It checks every box was one phrase. There was another phrase he used to called the parasitic bean counter convention.

[Brian Buckmire]

The exact language was, what do you do? You whack the CEO at the annual parasitic bean counter convention. It's targeted, precise, and doesn't risk innocence. And two, a brief letter labeled to the feds. It references failures of the American healthcare system and says, quote, I do apologize for any strife or trauma, but it had to be done. Frankly, these parasites simply had it coming. A judge has since determined that some of the items police say they found in Mangione's backpack will be inadmissible in court. Other items will be allowed. We'll get into all of that. In a later episode, back to December 2024. The Altoona Police Department has got all of these items, but the murder didn't happen in their jurisdiction. They can't charge Mangione for something he allegedly did in New York. They can, however, charge him for crimes he allegedly committed in Pennsylvania. And that's exactly what they do. They charge him with forgery, carrying firearms without a license, possessing instruments of a crime, tampering with records and false identification to authorities. Mangioni has pled not guilty to all of those charges.

[Josh Margolin]

And they send word back to New York, we think we have your person of interest.

[Brian Buckmire]

That's ABC's Josh Margolin. Again.

[Josh Margolin]

The New York police in the middle of a rainstorm, they start racing from Manhattan west on the interstate to get out to Altoona, Pennsylvania. Through the morning, we start hearing that police think it looks good, that they're optimistic that this is the person they've been looking for. The mayor and the police commissioner have a press conference midday.

[Brian Buckmire]

Good afternoon.

[Josh Margolin]

And the mayor says that this is a strong person of interest.

[Brian Buckmire]

Someone, a McDonald's employee, did something we ask every American to do. If you see something, say something. But most importantly, do something. The chief of detectives shares what police knew about their strong person of interest.

[Police Official]

A man was taken into custody today at Altuda, Pennsylvania, this morning. He has been identified as Luigi Nicholas Mangione. He's a male, 26 years old. He was born and raised in Maryland. We know he has ties to San Francisco, California, and his last known address was Honolulu, Hawaii.

[Officer Fry]

Soon.

[Brian Buckmire]

Authorities also say there is no indication that Mangione was ever a customer of UnitedHealthcare, something the company confirmed. That's all police knew about Mangione back in the very early days of this case. But quickly, Luigi Mangione became a household name and according to journalists and some people who have followed the story closely, a symbol.

[Aaron Katerski]

What happened was that shooting really laid bare this wound. In American culture.

[Amanda Hirsch]

They feel like this guy is standing up to a system and they're celebrating it.

[Brian Buckmire]

How did a young man who friends say was brilliant and funny become the person prosecutors say he is? A cold blooded killer. Someone who planned and pulled off a daring public murder.

[Aaron Katerski]

This kid that I knew from high school is now the most high profile killer allegedly in the country. It's so surreal.

[Brian Buckmire]

And how did a well respected corporate executive who largely kept to himself become a victim of what police considered a targeted assassination?

[Amanda Hirsch]

It is unfair that one person, this man who's been murdered, is being held responsible in the public's eyes. For the failings of an entire industry and, frankly, a system.

[Brian Buckmire]

A murder is a murder.

[Aaron Katerski]

I cannot reconcile that there is such a thing as a just murder.

[Brian Buckmire]

What put these two men on a collision course? What put them at the heart of a national frenzy far bigger than both of them? Burden of proof luigi mangione is a production of abc audio in 2020, hosted by me, brian buckmire. Produced by vika aronson and audrey mostek. Our lead producer is camille peterson. Edited by tracy samuelson music by evan viola mixing by bob mallory. Special thanks to katie dendas, sasha azlanian, michelle margulis, tanya simpson, aaron katerski, josh margolin, peter harolambus, jared kofsky, jake lefferman and katie maldoni. Josh cohan is our director of podcast programming. Eamon mcniff is our executive producer.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Hey, it's Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile. Now I was looking for fun ways to tell you that Mint's offer of unlimited Premium Wireless for $15 a month is back. So I thought it would be fun if we made $15 bills, but it turns out that's very illegal. So there goes my big idea for the commercial. Give it a [e-mail] switch upfront payment

[Amanda Hirsch]

of $45 for three months, $90 for six months, or $180 for a 12 month plan required $15 per month equivalent to taxes and fees. Extra initial plan term only greater than 50 gigabytes. Me slow when network is busy.

[Ryan Reynolds]

See terms hey, it's Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile. Now I was looking for fun ways to tell you that Mint's offering of unlimited Premium Wireless for $15 a month is back. So I thought it would be fun if we made $15 bills, but it turns out that's very illegal. So there goes my big idea for the commercial. Give it a [e-mail] switch upfront payment

[Amanda Hirsch]

of $45 for three months, $90 for six months or $180 for a 12 month plan required $15 per month equivalent taxes and fees. Extra initial plan term only greater than 50 gigabytes. Me slow when network is busy. See terms.