Murder at The U: The Teammate

Summary

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Podcast Summary: 20/20 – Murder at The U: The Teammate (February 25, 2026)

Podcast: 20/20
Host: ABC News (in collaboration with ESPN and 30 for 30 Podcasts)
Episode: Murder at The U – Episode 4: The Teammate
Date: February 25, 2026

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Overview

This gripping true crime episode, “The Teammate,” explores the longstanding suspicion and swirling rumors that Rashawn Jones, a teammate of murdered University of Miami football player Brian Pata, may have been involved in his death. Through candid interviews with players, coaches, friends, and Rashawn’s associates, as well as deep-dive investigative reporting, the episode untangles conflicting stories and circumstantial evidence while highlighting the emotional fallout from the tragedy. The episode zeroes in on Jones’s relationship with Pata, his whereabouts on the day of the murder, and the internal dynamics of suspicion and support within the Miami Hurricanes program.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Pata Family’s Theory and Early Suspicions

• The Pata family and many of Brian’s teammates quickly suspected the killer was someone close – a teammate, not an outsider. (01:08)
  • Edric Pata (Brian’s brother): “Brian, our brother, was not killed from somebody from outside. It was killed from University of Miami.” (01:08)
  • George Timmons: “Don’t want to put it out there, but it was a teammate.” (01:15)
• The name Rashawn Jones emerged as the prime suspect after former players and students connected the dots from team conflicts and rumors. (01:41–02:57)
  • “Who did Brian have an altercation with...people started talking a little bit about Rashawn, who kept saying his name, kept coming up.” – Edric Pata (02:43)

2. Rashawn Jones: Background, Personality, and Reputation

• Rashawn grew up in Lake City, FL, had a close-knit upbringing, excelled in football, and followed his close friend George Timmons to play at “the U.” (04:46–05:37)
  • “She [his grandmother] was like Rashawn’s world.” – George Timmons (05:13)
• Jones was remembered as talented but troubled, charismatic, and attractive. He frequently got into minor trouble, was suspended multiple times, and was polarizing to teammates. (06:51–08:08)
  • Eric Houston: “Sean was a good looking kid, man. He had a lot of girls.” (07:22)
  • Multiple teammates described Jones as “cunning,” and someone who often hit on other players’ girlfriends, including Brian's girlfriend, Jada, which caused tension. (07:51–08:39)

3. The Conflict Between Brian Pata and Rashawn Jones

• Several altercations between Brian and Rashawn were recounted, mostly centering around Rashawn’s behavior towards Jada. (08:53–09:40)
  • Notably, a locker room scuffle and a major fight in Eric Moncour’s dorm room, after finding Rashawn in the room with porn on the TV, resulted in a heated physical altercation and a possible gun threat—“clip up”—from Rashawn. (09:51–11:17)
  • Eric Moncour (via Edric recounting the story): “Brian get on top of this dude and headbutts him five times.” (10:58)
  • Edric Pata: “Then Rashawn was like, well, you might as well go ahead and clip up.” (11:11)

4. Motive, Means, Opportunity: Investigative Analysis

• Motive: Rumored animosity over Jada and a string of conflicts.
• Means: Two teammates reported having seen Rashawn with a gun matching the type used in the murder (likely a .38 caliber revolver). (13:27–14:11)
  • Police report: Dave Howell and Kareem Brown said Rashawn carried a .38 revolver, and the medical examiner suggested this was the murder weapon's likely caliber.
• Opportunity: Rashawn was suspended the day of the murder, didn’t attend practice or the team meeting later that night—unusual for a mandatory meeting where all others were present. (14:12–15:04)
  • Eric Houston: “It was like, dude, the man kind of just went missing...He’s gone. Like, I haven’t seen him.” (15:10–15:19)

5. Rashawn’s Whereabouts and the Mysterious Calls

• A crucial call: Rashawn called teammate Mike Sanders on the night of the murder, reportedly asking for money, which some interpreted as seeking funds to leave town. (15:59–17:18)
  • Che Scott (chaplain): “Seemed a little bit shaky and nervous about something...I couldn’t tell you the player’s name who called Mike that day.” (16:36)
  • This call, and Rashawn’s absence, amplified suspicion.
• Phone records show Jones got a new number hours before the murder and was in contact with several friends, but there’s a notable hour-long gap—exactly during the murder window—when his phone was inactive. (19:38–25:47, 31:04–31:36, 41:25–43:14)

6. Testimonies: Guilt or Coincidence?

• Sherry Abramson (Rashawn’s girlfriend at the time) says Rashawn went off the grid to process his suspension, not to flee a crime scene, and was often scapegoated. She maintains his innocence and describes his reaction as both shocked and upset about Brian’s death. (22:14–30:12)
  • Sherry: “If he needed money or somebody to help him get out of town, it would have been me.” (25:27)
  • On motive: “Did it ever. Was there ever anything that would have justified him murdering him? No. Nothing that I ever knew of.” (28:17)
  • On Rashawn's character: “He was his grandma's boy, you know, like, he wasn't raised by tough guys.” (29:07)
• Friends like George Timmons and Trish Morgan echo similar beliefs and suggest that the rumors “got blown out of proportion” and that Brian had enemies beyond the team. (31:36–33:12)
  • George Timmons: “I don’t think Rick did it. I really don’t.” (31:48)
  • Trish Morgan: “I don’t see Rashawn committing murder.” (33:06)

7. The Power and Limits of Rumor

• Within the team, opinions diverged—the rumor started immediately for some, but others, including some players and coaches, expressed surprise or disbelief at the notion one teammate would kill another. (35:27–36:23)
  • Ed Hudak (police officer): “There was a very strong sentiment that, you know, he had something to do with it.” (37:33)
  • Coach Hurd: “I was not under the impression that their relationship was that bad, that they had that strong of a dislike for one another.” (36:52)
• Coaches generally deferred to “innocent until proven guilty” and saw Rashawn’s return to the team as the only option without substantiated proof. (39:03)

8. Circumstantial Evidence & New Witness Break

• The case against Rashawn is “entirely circumstantial”—no weapon, no eyewitnesses, no physical evidence. (41:25–43:14)
• Late revelation: Police told the podcast team there was a witness who saw a black male fleeing the scene, later identifying Rashawn as the person seen. (43:14–43:34)
  • Paula Levine: “We’d eventually learn more about this witness and what he told the police. He didn’t witness the shooting itself, but he saw someone leaving the Colony apartments on foot. He would later identify Rashawn as the person he saw.” (43:34)

9. Rashawn’s Response: Refusal to Engage

• After repeated attempts, Rashawn refused to speak with the reporters. He said nothing he could say would change anyone’s mind, and pointed out that the police had interviewed him once and never followed up. His wife echoed this sentiment. (44:40–47:37)
  • Rashawn (via Dan Arruda): “I talked to the police 12 years ago...I never heard from them again. So obviously I’m not a suspect or else I would have been arrested.” (45:50)
  • Dan Arruda: “Innocent or not, like, either way, I mean, he’s not wrong. ... It makes sense that he wouldn’t want to.” (46:14)

10. The Investigation Moves Forward

• Despite Rashawn feeling the matter was closed, police told the podcast team they still had a “strong belief as to who’s responsible.”
  • Investigator: “Yeah, we have a strong belief as to who’s responsible for his death.” (48:17)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Paula Levine: “As we dug deeper, we concluded that only one of two things could be true. Either Rashawn Jones killed Brian Pata or someone else killed Brian and Rashawn fell victim to a very unfortunate set of circumstances.” (03:03)
• Edric Pata: “Brian get on top of this dude and headbutts him five times.” (10:58)
• Eric Houston: “It was like, dude, the man kind of just went missing. Like, where the fuck did he go… so then you really start saying to yourself, like, yo, did he? Could it. Could it really be.” (15:10–15:30)
• Sherry Abramson: “Do I think he could ever pull the trigger on anybody just to take someone’s life? I don’t know...I just don’t think he has it in him to be a killer. Really don’t.” (29:07–30:12)
• George Timmons: “A lot of people thought we had a killer amongst us.” (38:33)
• Dave Howell: “But like I told them, I said, but you never know because you don’t really know the inside of an individual.” (40:34)
• Paula Levine: “The entire case against Rashawn Jones appeared circumstantial. But then there’s this...a piece of evidence we learned about only in our final interview with detectives...” (43:12)
• Police Detective: “There was an individual who saw a black male running away from the scene who’s a resident in that apartment complex, and he’s cooperating with the investigation… He would later identify Rashawn as the person he saw.” (43:14–43:34)
• Rashawn (via Dan): “If God Almighty came down and asked me to sit down, I would not do it.” (45:21)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 01:08 – Pata brothers on suspicion not being an outsider
• 02:57 – Rashawn Jones first implicated by name
• 08:39 – Rashawn’s relationships with teammates’ girlfriends revealed as primary conflict
• 10:58–11:17 – The dorm room fight and “clip up” threat
• 13:27–14:11 – Reports of Rashawn carrying a .38 revolver matching murder weapon description
• 14:12–15:19 – Rashawn’s unexplained absence at time of murder; other players’ search for him
• 16:36–17:18 – The pivotal call to teammate Mike Sanders after the murder
• 22:14–30:12 – Sherry Abramson’s detailed account of Rashawn’s demeanor and her intense efforts to reach him
• 31:48 – George Timmons questions Rashawn’s guilt
• 33:06 – Trish Morgan on Rashawn’s character and friendship
• 37:33 – Police receive player-driven suspicion about Rashawn
• 38:33 – Chaplain describes the suspicion as a cloud over the team
• 43:14–43:34 – Detective reveals eyewitness identification of Rashawn fleeing the scene
• 44:40–45:31 – Rashawn and wife refuse to engage with the reporters
• 48:17 – Detective says police still have a strong belief about who’s responsible

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Tone and Language

The episode’s tone is probing, methodical, and at times emotionally raw, echoing the language of the speakers themselves: a mix of blunt firsthand recollections, somber reflection, skepticism, and the persistent, unsettled energy of an unsolved tragedy. The hosts draw clear lines between fact, rumor, bias, and circumstantial narrative.

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Summary

“The Teammate” immerses listeners in a web of suspicion, rumor, and circumstantial evidence surrounding the murder of Brian Pata, focusing on the troubled narrative of Rashawn Jones. The episode explores, in rich detail, the relationships, conflicts, and character of those involved; the difficulty of separating gossip from fact in a close-knit community; and the painstaking, frustrating work of true crime investigation with incomplete or ambiguous evidence. Ultimately, the case remains unsolved—but shaped both by what is known and what can only be suspected.

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End of Summary

Transcript

[Paula Levine]

This is Deborah Roberts here with another episode of Murder at the you. From our friends at ESPN and 30 for 30 podcasts. This is the last episode of Murder at the U. We'll be sharing for now. So if you want to listen to the rest of the series and learn what happens to Rashawn Jones, follow 30 for 30 podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or your favorite podcast app. Now here's the fourth episode of Murder at the U. Previously on Murder at the U. Everybody's a suspect when somebody dies.

[Pastor Steve Caldwell]

It was Brian and the girl, man.

[Dan Arruda]

I used to ask him, where you

getting all this money from?

[Edric Pata]

Then he'd be like, oh, I gotta call my guy. He never said the name, but I

[Eric Houston]

just remember him like, if you want it, man, come see me then.

[Paula Levine]

From the very beginning of our reporting, we knew the Pata family had a particular suspect in mind for who killed Brian.

[Edric Pata]

Yeah, we know who did it.

[Dan Arruda]

We know who's responsible for it.

[Paula Levine]

This came in our first conversation with edric Pata in 2017.

[Dan Arruda]

Brian, our brother, was not killed from somebody from outside. It was killed from University of Miami. So they Miami date.

[George Timmons]

Don't want to put it out there, but it was a teammate.

[Paula Levine]

In our investigation, multiple suspects emerged from different scenarios. There was a nightclub fight with suspected gang members, Brian's alleged connection to the ZO pound leader, Ollie Adam, and potentially his girlfriend's twin brother. But this theory that a teammate killed Brian, it had our attention from the beginning. At first, Brian's brothers Edric and Edwin didn't want to implicate this teammate by name, but over time, they eventually did share a name with producer Dan Arruda.

[Interviewer (possibly Dan Arruda or Paula Levine)]

Did he mention having problems with anybody on the team?

[Dan Arruda]

Yeah. His only guy was Rashawn Jones.

[Paula Levine]

The Pata family was convinced that Brian was killed by his teammate, Rashawn Jones. Edric told us his suspicions started after a conversation with a former Hurricanes player.

[Edric Pata]

Man, y' all need to look at the goddamn school. He said there's some grimy.

[Interviewer (possibly Dan Arruda or Paula Levine)]

He said.

[Dan Arruda]

He used these words.

[Edric Pata]

There's some grimy niggas out there. I know somebody in the goddamn school know who killed Brian. Them cats know. Them players know.

[Interviewer (possibly Dan Arruda or Paula Levine)]

So when he says this to you,

[Dan Arruda]

you think, what, like it can't be true?

[Edric Pata]

Miami. It's Miami, man. It is brotherly love. It's Miami. It's the U. It's Miami. They wouldn't. You know who would do that?

[Interviewer (possibly Dan Arruda or Paula Levine)]

When was the first time you remember someone saying to you or you guys putting together that Rashawn was the One

[Edric Pata]

that pull the trigger, started sitting down with the teammate. And then we started putting the puzzles together. Who did Brian had an altercation with Brian had a fight with this guy. And when we heard different things, people started talking a little bit about Rashawn, who kept saying his name, kept coming up.

[Dan Arruda]

This is from former teammates.

[Edric Pata]

Yeah, former teammates. UF students. So people just started to talk.

[Paula Levine]

But could a teammate really have killed Brian in cold blood? As we dug deeper, we concluded that only one of two things could be true. Either Rashawn Jones killed Brian Pata or someone else killed Brian and Rashawn fell victim to a very unfortunate set of circumstances. I'm Paula Levine from 30 for 30 podcast. This is Murder at the U. Episode four the teammate. After the Patas identified Rashawn Jones by name in 2018, our reporting team tried to learn everything we could about him. Rashawn was in his junior year when Brian Pata was murdered. The police questioned him, but he didn't hear from them. After 2007, Rashawn was still on the team in the spring, but then after failing another drug test, he left. He transferred to a college in North Carolina, and he ended up playing arena football in Texas. But after Texas, Rashawn moved back home to Florida. In 2018, he married his high school girlfriend, Ascenda. By that time, he had five children. And this is where our timelines converge. It had been nearly 12 years since Brian's murder. We, Rashawn, and the people in his orbit were going about their lives, most likely not thinking about Brian Pata until we began calling them up and asking questions. Rashawn grew up in a small town in northern Florida called Lake City. Rashawn's friend George Timmons describes the town this way.

[George Timmons]

It's just a little, small country town. There's really not much of anything there. But, you know, everybody's always. Everybody comes together for their sports.

[Paula Levine]

George grew up playing football with Rashawn. From the age of eight or nine,

[George Timmons]

we played for the Jaguars as a Pop Warner team. Like we was on teams together since we was little boys. Like, we've been friends forever.

[Paula Levine]

It seemed like Rashawn was raised by his mother and grandmother. George said he and Rashawn would hang out at his grandmother's house.

[George Timmons]

We always to go there, sit with her, talk to her. His grandmother was really. She was like Rashawn's world.

[Paula Levine]

In high school, Rashawn became a nationally ranked cornerback. As he went into his senior year in Lake City. Universities such as Tennessee, North Carolina, and Florida recruited him. But Like Brian, Rashawn chose the U. George also decided to play football at Miami.

[George Timmons]

I think me and him kind of went in it together. Cause we were like, you know, shoot, we boys, we been playing. Let's just go down here and do it together so it won't be like you alone. So we'll have each other as friends when we get down there.

Miami Rashawn Jones recovers in the end

[Dan Arruda]

zone for the touchdown.

[Paula Levine]

Rashawn joined the hurricanes in 2004, one year after Brian. He played in about half the games in his first two seasons. Linebacker John Beeson came to Miami the same year as Rashawn and remembered him as a strong player. A guy could have been as good

[Edric Pata]

as anybody to play DB or return kicks.

[Dan Arruda]

It was just a very, very talented dude.

[Paula Levine]

But to fans and observers of the team, Rashawn didn't really stand out. Even Nevin Shapiro, the Miami mega booster and self proclaimed super fan, had no memory of Rashawn. So at the time, where was Rashawn Jones on your radar?

[Pastor Steve Caldwell]

Nowhere.

[Edric Pata]

Never met him my whole life.

[Pastor Steve Caldwell]

He wasn't a frontline guy and I think he was an outsider for most. I don't. I've never met him.

[Paula Levine]

I could, if he was sitting here,

[Pastor Steve Caldwell]

I couldn't identify him.

[Paula Levine]

We asked all the former Hurricanes players we spoke to what Rashaun was like at that time.

[Edric Pata]

He was just kind of in and

[Paula Levine]

out of trouble, like little stuff on

[Edric Pata]

campus or with the team getting in

[Paula Levine]

trouble or suspended for games or whatnot.

[Edric Pata]

And that probably led to his demise

[Paula Levine]

as a University of Miami football player at the U. Rashawn was remembered as an amazing athlete who didn't meet his full potential. He got in fights and received several suspensions. But like Brian, he was also funny in a charming way. And he stood out as attractive, even on a campus full of young hot people.

[Eric Houston]

Sean was a good looking kid, man. He had a lot of girls.

[Paula Levine]

You know, the teeth, the attitude, the hair, the dress. Now bear in mind, we spoke to a lot of team members, mostly friends of Brian's. We tried talking to more of Rashawn's friends, but several of them turned down our interview requests. So our sample may have been a bit biased, but lots of players said versions of the same thing.

[Eric Houston]

Was Sean like, kind of rubbed some people the wrong way.

[Dan Arruda]

He's one of those cunning guys. He has a cunning look on his face all the time.

[Paula Levine]

He was a sleazeball like that.

[Dan Arruda]

That's all he really did when he

[George Timmons]

was at UM was just, you know,

[Dan Arruda]

try to fuck Girls like he wasn't trying to play football, you know what I mean?

[Paula Levine]

Teammate Eric Houston told us that Rashawn's interest in women often seemed more important to Rashawn than football. These hookups were a point of friction with more than one of Rashawn's teammates. According to the police report and our interviews, Rashawn would go behind players backs and hit on their girlfriends. Willie Williams and Dave Howell both told police that Rashawn did this with the women they were dating at the time. Rashawn also allegedly went behind Brian's back to talk with his girlfriend, Jada Brody.

[Edric Pata]

He tried to mess with Jada while they were together. That's why they didn't like each other.

[Paula Levine]

Dan, you spoke to many of Brian's teammates. What did they tell you about his run ins with Rashawn?

[Dan Arruda]

So a lot of time has passed since they were all teammates. Details are kind of hard to confirm, but it was clear that Brian and Rashawn had several run ins. One reason could have been because Brian's girlfriend Jada had at one point, before dating Brian, been involved with Rashawn.

[Paula Levine]

And when you say run ins, like, they just shout at each other. Were there fights? Like what, what actually happened?

[Dan Arruda]

Again, these are hard to be exact about. The dates aren't always consistent. One was a locker room scuffle after Rashawn said something about Jada to Brian. We also heard about an argument they had in the cafeteria, also possibly about Jada, but that one wasn't physical. And then there's one significant fight which several people have told us about, including one of Brian's best friends, Eric Moncour.

[Paula Levine]

What did Eric tell you about that fight?

[Dan Arruda]

So according to Eric, he and Brian were returning to Eric's dorm room after an off season summer workout. They get to the dorm room and the door is locked.

[Edric Pata]

But I see like, you know how the TVs on? You can see like on the ground, what the hell going on?

[Dan Arruda]

So Brian and Eric go to another student's dorm room for a little while and they eventually come back, but now they see Rashawn running down that hallway. And Eric's door is just wide open. When they get to the room, there's porn playing on the tv. Eventually Rashawn comes back, but now it's Eric and Brian and another teammate, Dave Howell, all three of them in the room. And Eric confronts Rashaun about being in his room.

[Edric Pata]

So I'm like, rashawn, what the fuck are you doing in my room, bro? Like, don't do that.

[Eric Houston]

No More, man.

[Edric Pata]

Like, you know what I'm saying?

[Paula Levine]

And

[Edric Pata]

Brian just came out of nowhere. Like he started getting the Rashaun face. And then, you know, their argument escalated and then they started fighting. So Brian get on top of this dude and headbutts him five times.

[Dan Arruda]

Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

[Edric Pata]

I dove in there, I grabbed Brian, I threw Brian out, threw Rashawn out the room. Then Rashawn was like, well, you might as well go ahead and clip up. I was like, are y' all really fna like shoot each other right now over some stupid stuff?

[Paula Levine]

To Eric, Rashawn saying clip up meant bring a gun next time. It was a threat. According to their teammate Chris Zellner, Brian and Rashawn didn't get along afterwards.

[Eric Houston]

They were kind of hanging out before that, you know what I'm saying? Like he would come over there, talk like. Cause patter was friends with everybody. But I do remember after hearing that fight, they never. They weren't like fucking cool after that. They fucking did not speak anymore.

[Pastor Steve Caldwell]

My day kicks off with a refreshing Celsius energy drink. Then straight to the gym, pre K pickup back home to meal prep. Time for my fire station shift. One more Celsius. Gotta keep the lights on when the three alarm hits. I'm ready. Celsius live fit. Go grab a cold refreshing Celsius at your local retailer or locate [e-mail]

[George Timmons]

your

[Dan Arruda]

little one grew 3 inches overnight.

[Pastor Steve Caldwell]

Adorable.

[Dan Arruda]

Also expensive. Sell their pint sized pieces on Depop and list them in minutes with no selling fees because somewhere a dad refuses to pay full price for the clothes his kids will outgrow tomorrow. And he's ready to buy your son's entire wardrobe right now. Consider your future growth.

[Pastor Steve Caldwell]

Bird budget secured.

[Dan Arruda]

Start selling on Depop where taste recognizes taste. Payment processing fees and boosting fees still apply. See website for details.

[Paula Levine]

Prosecutors talk about whether a suspect has motive, means, and opportunity for committing a crime. From all the stories we'd heard, we knew that Brian and Rashawn were at odds and that it likely had something to do with Jada. That could have been a motive. What about the means? Brian was killed at close range with a handgun. Remember before the 2006 season started, a shooting that involved two Hurricanes players led head coach Larry Coker to institute a no guns rule, a rule the players routinely broke. At least two of Rashawn's teammates say they saw him with a gun. Dave Howell told police that Rashawn threatened him with a gun, and his description of that gun could match the one used to kill Brian. Remember how police couldn't find a spent bullet casing at the crime scene? The gun Dave said Rashawn pointed at him was a revolver, meaning it wouldn't have left casings behind. And teammate Kareem Brown told police that Rashawn said he always carried a revolver, a.38 caliber handgun. According to a detective's report, the medical examiner said a.38 was possibly the caliber of the bullet that killed Brian. So that could have been the means. And what about opportunity to establish that? We'd have to track Rashawn's movements as closely as possible on the day of the murder. On the morning of November 7, 2006, Rashawn found out that he was suspended from the team for failing a drug test.

[Dan Arruda]

He.

[Paula Levine]

He had marijuana in his system, and so Rashawn wasn't at practice that day, which wouldn't have been unusual for a player who'd been suspended. None of the Miami players we spoke to knew where Rashaun was during that whole day and afternoon. Again, that might not have been so strange if not for what happened that night.

[Eric Houston]

We get a phone call, hey, y' all need to come to the team meeting room. I didn't know what it was, but they were like, no, it's important. Get here now. Get here now.

[Paula Levine]

Remember, immediately after Brian's murder, head coach Larry Coker called the whole team back to the Hecht Athletic center for a mandatory team meeting. According to deposition testimony from a coach, a meeting like that would have included everyone on the team, even players who had been suspended. From what we were told, all the players showed up for that meeting except Rashawn.

[Edric Pata]

Everybody was looking for him. Where's Rashawn?

[Paula Levine]

And the players noticed, including Chris Zellner.

[Eric Houston]

It was like, dude, the man kind of just went missing. Like, where the fuck did he go? Like, and then you kind of start looking back and like, yeah, man, I really haven't seen that.

[Dan Arruda]

He's gone.

[Eric Houston]

Yeah, he's gone. Like, I haven't seen him. So then you really start saying to yourself, like, yo, did he? Could it. Could it really be.

[Paula Levine]

According to police, Rashawn initially told detectives that he had shown up for the team meeting, although later on, he said that he'd stayed at home. Either way, on the night of the murder, police say that Rashawn made a phone call to another student athlete, a baseball player. This call was overheard by an assistant chaplain on the football team named Che Scott. Producer Dan Arruda got in touch with Che to follow up on that lead.

[Dan Arruda]

Hello, Danny.

[Interviewer (possibly Dan Arruda or Paula Levine)]

Hey, Che, how are you, man?

[Dan Arruda]

How are you?

[Interviewer (possibly Dan Arruda or Paula Levine)]

Good. Is this a good time to talk?

[Paula Levine]

What did you tell him about our story?

[Dan Arruda]

I basically told him we were reporting on what had happened to Brian Pata. Scott didn't know we had been hearing rumors about Rashawn, and I definitely hadn't mentioned to him before that we knew about the overheard phone call.

[Paula Levine]

As you were talking to him, did that phone call come up?

[Dan Arruda]

Yeah. After quite a bit of coaxing and reassuring, he. He eventually told me that the student athlete who had received the call was a University of Miami baseball player named Mike Sanders.

We got a phone call from another player who seemed a little bit shaky and nervous about something. But I'm sure there were a lot of people that were a little bit scared that day. And today, honestly, you'd have to go through a list of names of people for me to even tell you what the person's name. That's what I'm trying to tell tell you. I couldn't even tell you the player's name who called Mike that day.

[Interviewer (possibly Dan Arruda or Paula Levine)]

That player was Rashawn Jones.

[Dan Arruda]

Is that right?

Yeah.

[George Timmons]

Yeah.

[Dan Arruda]

And you know what? I'm actually getting a little bit uncomfortable with this whole thing. So it was Rashad, but I'm not gonna get involved in any.

[George Timmons]

Any.

[Dan Arruda]

Anything else with this, honestly.

[Paula Levine]

So what happened after that?

[Dan Arruda]

Well, he wanted to end the conversation right then and there, but fortunately, I got him to agree to meet me later for an unrecorded conversation face to face.

[Paula Levine]

And when you sat down with Scott, what did he tell you?

[Dan Arruda]

Chase Scott told me that at the time, he was roommates with another football player on the team the night of Brian's murder, Mike Sanders comes by the apartment to check on the football player because news of Brian's death has been announced everywhere.

[Interviewer (possibly Dan Arruda or Paula Levine)]

So Mike comes by just to make

[Dan Arruda]

sure that the player is okay. While Mike is in the apartment, Mike gets a call from Rashawn Jones. Che overhears this conversation, and it sounds like Rashawn is asking Mike for money. I think Scott believed that Rashawn was trying to gather money up so he can get out of town. A lot of guys that night were worried for their own safety. Brian had been killed. No one knew who it was. Some of them thought maybe people are targeting University of Miami players. Now, on the flip side of that, while a lot of players were worried about their safety, Rashaun is the only one that doesn't return to the Heck center that night.

[Paula Levine]

Chase Scott was a chaplain, and so was Steve Caldwell. He was the other chaplain. You talked to. Did Caldwell know about this phone call, too?

[Dan Arruda]

He didn't know about that specific call, but he had his own thoughts about Rashaun.

[Pastor Steve Caldwell]

What has stuck with me and has always been with me that Rashawn has something to do with it. He was the only one that didn't show up to the team meeting that night. Why didn't you show up? Everyone got the call. Everyone knew.

[Paula Levine]

At first, we wondered if maybe Rashawn didn't get the call. That's because, according to the police, Rashawn changed his cell number after Brian's death. So it's possible that coaches couldn't get ahold of him because they didn't have his new number. But Rashawn's phone records seem to tell a different story. They show that Rashawn got a new phone number around 3pm hours before Brian was killed. And at least one person on the football team had this new number. The log shows several calls with his teammate Bruce Johnson that night. And Rashawn would later admit to police that Bruce had told him about the meeting. His phone records also confirmed that he called Mike Sanders number around 10pm and five minutes after that call ended, Rashawn placed two calls to an 800 number for bank of America. That could be relevant, because in the days before smartphones, one of the ways you could check your balance was to call the bank's automated number. Pastor Caldwell told us that he got a strange call that night, too, but not from Rashawn. It came from Rashawn's girlfriend at the time, Sherry Abramson. Sherry's brother Ross also played on the team, and Sherry was one of Caldwell's Bible study students.

[Pastor Steve Caldwell]

Sherry called me in, like, in a panic about Brian being dead and someone shot him. And she immediately asked me, is Rashawn there?

[Interviewer (possibly Dan Arruda or Paula Levine)]

She wanted to know if Rashawn was at the Hecht center that night.

[Paula Levine]

Right.

[Pastor Steve Caldwell]

And I said, no, he's not here. And I think he was the only player that didn't show up.

[Edric Pata]

And.

[Pastor Steve Caldwell]

And she was just freaking out about him. And that's what I told the police. She was just acting real weird about where he was and, you know, worried about him. Yeah.

[Interviewer (possibly Dan Arruda or Paula Levine)]

When Sherry called you that night, do

[Dan Arruda]

you believe that Sherry's worried for Rashawn's safety?

[Pastor Steve Caldwell]

At the time, I thought she was worried about Rashawn's safety, like somebody was trying to get at University of Miami players. You know, I didn't pay attention to it at that moment. But after dialing it back, and then once the investigators started talking to Me, it was like, well, damn, you know, did she know something? Did she know that he was planning something like this? Or why was she so worried about his well being? And I asked myself that question. Objectively speaking, I think she was worried about something because she knew something. What I truly believe is that I think Sherry could shed more light. I think she could.

[Paula Levine]

So you knew that we wanted to talk to Sherry. How long did it take for you to get in touch with her?

[Dan Arruda]

Sherry was my white whale for a while. Our team always believed that if we were ever going to learn what happened to Rashawn and his actions that night, Sherry was going to be the key. It took more than a year of texts and calls to get her to go on the record with us.

[Sherry Abramson]

Hello?

[Interviewer (possibly Dan Arruda or Paula Levine)]

Hi, Sherry, it's Dan.

[Dan Arruda]

How are you?

[Sherry Abramson]

Hey. Good. How are you?

[Interviewer (possibly Dan Arruda or Paula Levine)]

Good. Is now a good time?

[Sherry Abramson]

Just give me a second.

[Paula Levine]

And when you finally did get her, what'd she tell you about that night?

[Dan Arruda]

On the night of Brian's murder, Sherry was actually working at Pottery Barn.

[Sherry Abramson]

I don't have good service there. So once I got out, my phone was going nuts, and I. It was one of the other players that got me on the phone. And the first thing he said was, where's Rashawn? And I said, I don't know. I just got out of work.

[Dan Arruda]

What's up?

[Sherry Abramson]

He said, I need to find him. I'm like, okay. Why? They said, somebody shot Pata. I said, what's that have to do with Rashawn? He said, well, he left practice because he got in trouble, and he's the only one that we can't account for. And I said, I gotta go. And I called him a million times, and I did not get a hold of him.

[Interviewer (possibly Dan Arruda or Paula Levine)]

What was your concern for Rashawn in that moment?

[Sherry Abramson]

Was he safe? Was he okay?

[Interviewer (possibly Dan Arruda or Paula Levine)]

And that was because a teammate had just been shot, and he was the only one that they couldn't track down.

[Sherry Abramson]

Yeah, I mean, had he been shot, too? I didn't know.

[Interviewer (possibly Dan Arruda or Paula Levine)]

Mm. Why wasn't he there that day? Do you remember that?

[Sherry Abramson]

Yeah. He tested positive again for marijuana.

[Interviewer (possibly Dan Arruda or Paula Levine)]

You said you tried him a bunch of times. Did it just. What happened when you called? It would just go to voicemail or.

[Sherry Abramson]

Yeah, his phone was off. I called his grandmother. I called maybe his sister. I called everybody asking, had you heard from him? Is he okay? Have you heard from him? Nobody knew. So he finally called me a couple hours later.

[Interviewer (possibly Dan Arruda or Paula Levine)]

When you finally got a hold of him, how did that conversation go?

[Sherry Abramson]

I said, where the hell are you? What happened? He told me what happened. That he showed up for practice. He had another positive test. They told him that he gone. So he said he left. He shut his phone off. He was very upset and taking the time by himself to kind of process, you know, he knew he up.

[Interviewer (possibly Dan Arruda or Paula Levine)]

So he spent that afternoon on his own. Is what he told you?

[Sherry Abramson]

Yeah. That he was just driving around or that he went to go think or, you know, it was something along those lines.

[Interviewer (possibly Dan Arruda or Paula Levine)]

Was that something he did normally just kind of go off by himself when things weren't going well, or was that abnormal for him on that day to do something like that?

[Sherry Abramson]

No, he loved going for drives alone. He would just go. He would go anywhere. He would go up 95 just for a drive. He would go down Ocean Drive. He would just go. Always. He liked to smoke, like a cigarette kind of a thing and just drive. Put his stupid music on really loud. So it's not surprising. To me, it wasn't out of character.

[Interviewer (possibly Dan Arruda or Paula Levine)]

So we've spoken to someone who says Rashaun called another student athlete that night and was looking for money to get out of town. Does that ring a bell? Does that sound. No, it doesn't.

[Sherry Abramson]

No. It doesn't seem accurate at all. Because what I do believe in, maybe I'm a fool or something like that. If he needed money or somebody to help him get out of town, it would have been me.

[Interviewer (possibly Dan Arruda or Paula Levine)]

Did you tell him that evening what had happened to Brian?

[Sherry Abramson]

I didn't have to. He already knew.

[Interviewer (possibly Dan Arruda or Paula Levine)]

Do you know how he found out?

[Sherry Abramson]

Yeah, everyone was calling him.

[Interviewer (possibly Dan Arruda or Paula Levine)]

What was his reaction to finding out that Brian had been shot?

[Sherry Abramson]

It was shocked. He knew it was fucked up. He couldn't believe it.

[Interviewer (possibly Dan Arruda or Paula Levine)]

What was their relationship like, Brian and Rashawn?

[Sherry Abramson]

There wasn't a big relationship between the two. I mean, it's not like they had, like, an outstanding feud. I mean, they did get into it in the locker room one time, but, I mean, that's all that it was.

[Interviewer (possibly Dan Arruda or Paula Levine)]

Did Rashawn at one point date Jada?

[Sherry Abramson]

I don't know. Date? No. Could they have been talking, texting, something along those lines? Sure. There wasn't a girl in Miami that he didn't talk to at one point?

[Dan Arruda]

Rashawn?

[Sherry Abramson]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (possibly Dan Arruda or Paula Levine)]

Do you think that could have been the friction between them that Rashawn at one point was hooking up with, messing around with Jada?

[Dan Arruda]

Sure.

[Sherry Abramson]

I wouldn't doubt it. I wouldn't be surprised. It wouldn't shock me.

[Interviewer (possibly Dan Arruda or Paula Levine)]

Did he tell you why he didn't end up going back to the Heck center that night?

[Sherry Abramson]

No, I don't recall.

[Interviewer (possibly Dan Arruda or Paula Levine)]

When was the next time you saw him?

[Sherry Abramson]

I don't recall. Probably that night.

[Interviewer (possibly Dan Arruda or Paula Levine)]

Did he come to your place, you think, Always?

[Sherry Abramson]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (possibly Dan Arruda or Paula Levine)]

Was Rashawn worried for his safety that night?

[Sherry Abramson]

You know, I don't know. I think he was trying to stay under the radar. A lot of people were assuming that he had something to do with it, so I think he just wanted to stay kind of quiet.

[Interviewer (possibly Dan Arruda or Paula Levine)]

So you think even that first night, people were pointing fingers at Rashawn?

[Sherry Abramson]

I think in the first minute, people were pointing fingers at Rashaun.

[Interviewer (possibly Dan Arruda or Paula Levine)]

See, that's the thing that surprised us. Like, if you say that they didn't have a terrible relationship, I don't understand why people would point fingers at Rashaun right away.

[Sherry Abramson]

I don't know. I mean, I can tell you, over the course of our relationship, he was never somebody that, like, flashed guns around. He was never, to my knowledge, ever had a gun on him. Did he have a gun? Possibly. Had I ever seen it in the couple years we were together? No.

[Interviewer (possibly Dan Arruda or Paula Levine)]

Was his reaction to Brian's murder more sorrow for Brian or scared that this could be more than just Brian?

[Sherry Abramson]

I think it was a mixture of the both. He definitely seemed genuinely upset that Pato was dead. I mean, there were no tears shed in front of me, but, I mean, there was no celebration either. He didn't like PETA. There's no secret there. They did not like each other. Did it ever. Was there ever anything that would have justified him murdering him? No. Nothing that I ever knew of.

[Interviewer (possibly Dan Arruda or Paula Levine)]

So a motive of. He was so upset that he had been kicked off the team and he had to take his anger out on somebody, and Brian was the closest person that he could think of.

[Sherry Abramson]

I'll never believe that.

[Dan Arruda]

Why not?

[Sherry Abramson]

I'll never ever believe that. Because Pata had. Pata had nothing to do with him testing positive again, Nothing. And if you're asking me point blank do I think that he did it, the answer is no, I don't. Do I think he could ever pull the trigger on anybody just to take someone's life? I don't know. There's some people that I would tell you. Sure, yeah. It just isn't him. He was his grandma's boy, you know, like, he wasn't raised by tough guys. He was raised by, you know, his grandmother and then his mom. So it's not like he was raised with, you know, like, thugs and, you know, in a violent household. He wasn't. I mean, I might be one of the only ones that you Talk to that. But I mean, I don't think that Rashawn had anything to do with this. I think that the timing was unbelievably coincidental in a terrible way. Just don't think he has it in him to be a killer. Really don't.

[Interviewer (possibly Dan Arruda or Paula Levine)]

Well, I think you hit it on the head, Cher. I think the reason so many people are able to believe so easily is because that window that Brian was murdered,

[Sherry Abramson]

that was when he was missing. Yeah. On a horrible day for him. I see that. I understand that.

[Paula Levine]

So Sherry's version of events is that this is just a really terrible coincidence for Rashawn.

[Dan Arruda]

That's right. She believes if Rashaun had been with her or with anyone else that could give him an alibi, none of this would have happened.

[Paula Levine]

Sherri Abramson could be right about Rashawn's innocence. But some of what she told us doesn't line up with information we have from Rashawn's phone records. They show that Sherry and Rashawn were in touch a number of times that night, starting before Brian's death at 7pm and there's no evidence of a missed call from Sherry after news of the murder had started to spread. Instead, he called her twice around 7:45. Sherry apparently didn't pick up. Then Sherry called rashawn back at 8:30. That call lasted 12 minutes. We asked Sherry about these discrepancies, but she didn't remember it playing out that way. Still, the fact of the matter is that Sherry said she didn't think Rashawn could have done it. And she wasn't the only one.

[George Timmons]

I feel like the whole situation, it really got blown out of proportion.

[Paula Levine]

This is Rashawn's childhood best friend and roommate, George Timmons. Again, he refers to Rashawn by his nickname, Rick.

[George Timmons]

I don't think Rick did it. I really don't. I believe Patter was. Sometimes he had an issue. He had spurts of being a bully sometimes. And I feel like he messed with the wrong person outside in the streets. And somebody. It was somebody. But like I said, I personally did not. I don't see Rashawn doing that. Rashawn would never. My personal opinion. And like Pat, I had a lot of enemies.

[Paula Levine]

We talked to another friend of Rashawn's about that night, a fellow, um student named Trish Morgan. Trish was also very close with Brian. They'd known each other since they were 14 years old. She says they were actually distantly related.

[Dan Arruda]

We never like, ran down our lineage, but we.

[Sherry Abramson]

We have a cousin in common.

[Dan Arruda]

So we always said that we were related on my mom's side.

[Paula Levine]

Trish was so close to Brian and Jada that after the murder, Jada came to live with her for a while. Dan spoke to Trish in 2019 when he asked whether she'd heard the rumors about Rashawn's involvement in the murder. She said she couldn't imagine it.

[Sherry Abramson]

I would never in a million years,

[Dan Arruda]

a million years, like Rashawn was one

[Sherry Abramson]

of my closest friends at Miami. I don't see Rashawn committing murder.

[Interviewer (possibly Dan Arruda or Paula Levine)]

Trish, what was he like? Describe Rashawn back then.

[Dan Arruda]

I mean, I can describe him now. I saw him and his wife a couple months ago.

[Sherry Abramson]

They came to Atlanta. He's funny. He is hilarious.

[Dan Arruda]

He was always a good friend to

[Sherry Abramson]

me, and I thought he was a

[Dan Arruda]

good friend to Brian. I don't.

[Sherry Abramson]

Maybe you know something that I don't know since you hear this rumor.

[Paula Levine]

After Brian's death, life went on for the Hurricanes. The team didn't skip any of its scheduled games. Head coach Larry Coker explained that decision in a press conference.

[Dan Arruda]

Players expressed the opinion they wanted to do what they felt like Brian Patton would want to do. They felt like Brian wanted to practice. They felt like Brian would want to play. And so that's a decision that we respected, and I think it's the right decision.

[Paula Levine]

Life went on for Rashawn, too. His drug suspension lasted two weeks. He returned to the roster by Miami's next home game, which was on Thanksgiving. That was the game where the team gathered around a banner of Brian to pay tribute to him.

[Interviewer (possibly Dan Arruda or Paula Levine)]

Thank you.

[Dan Arruda]

Look at this moment here. Brian Potter's image, the slain Hurricane teammate, a banner that fans made, and the team gathering around it at midfield. What a moment. Miami fights from behind.

[Paula Levine]

Initially, the photo of this moment looked to us like a team united, grieving. One of their own players are kneeling in what looks like prayer. Some are holding hands. Almost all of them have their eyes closed. But now one player sticks out. Rashawn Jones. There are almost 100 players on this team, but somehow he's made it to the front row. He's on one knee, looking down at Brian's face on the banner, arm in arm with his teammates. Knowing the rumors that were swirling around the team at that time, that photo started to look very different to us. Dan, did other players on the team say that they thought Rashawn might have been involved?

[Dan Arruda]

We ended up speaking with more than 20 players over those first few years, reporting. Some said yes. It wouldn't surprise them Eric Moncour actually said the rumor started the night of the murder.

[Interviewer (possibly Dan Arruda or Paula Levine)]

So none of you guys after Brian's death ever thought to yourselves or talked amongst each other and said, I wonder if Rashawn did it?

[Paula Levine]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (possibly Dan Arruda or Paula Levine)]

You guys did?

[Edric Pata]

Yeah.

[Pastor Steve Caldwell]

Cause we was like, oh, he was

[Edric Pata]

the only one who wasn't here.

[Paula Levine]

Did all the players you talked to have that reaction?

[Dan Arruda]

No, not at all. Some said they couldn't imagine one teammate killing another. It was just too hard for them to believe. I talked to Josh Holmes about a month after interviewing Eric Moncour. Josh was one of the freshmen that Brian gave a lift to the dorms earlier that night.

This is the first time I've ever heard that. Be honest with you.

[Interviewer (possibly Dan Arruda or Paula Levine)]

Yep.

[Dan Arruda]

Yeah, it's the first time I ever heard somebody say somebody on our team's possibly to blame for it.

I talked to Randy Phillips, who was a sophomore defensive back on that 06 team, and he reacted the same way.

[George Timmons]

Rashaun.

[Edric Pata]

I don't even think Rashaun was down

[Paula Levine]

here at that time, was he?

[Interviewer (possibly Dan Arruda or Paula Levine)]

Yeah.

[Edric Pata]

I mean, I never heard that.

[Interviewer (possibly Dan Arruda or Paula Levine)]

You never heard that?

[Paula Levine]

That's the first time I ever heard that. What about the coaches? Had they heard these rumors about Rashaun?

[Dan Arruda]

To my knowledge, no coach has ever admitted to hearing rumors about Rashaun. I asked Coach Hurd about it, and he says he was surprised to hear any kind of rumor like that.

[Interviewer (possibly Dan Arruda or Paula Levine)]

The family has a theory about what happened. They believe that Rashawn Jones had something

[Dan Arruda]

to do with it. What is your reaction to that, boy?

One surprising shock, because I was not under the impression that their relationship was that bad, that they had that strong of a dislike for one another. I heard stories about that those two had issues and they didn't get along. But I never heard it be a relationship that was so bad that it could ever go to that. So I would just be shocked. I don't have an opinion on if I think that's the case or not. I have no idea.

But when I spoke to Ed Hudak, that Coral Gables police officer who worked security for the Kains, he said he had discussed that very possibility with head coach Larry Coker.

His name came across my desk, talking

[George Timmons]

with Coach Coker, things like that, and

[Dan Arruda]

some things that he was dealing with, because I'm not privy to all the stuff, what his performance issues were, but there was a very strong sentiment that, you know, he had something to do with it. When that was brought up to me by the players, I made sure that the detectives had that. And what came of those leads I. I don't know.

Do you remember how the coaching staff reacted to that possibility?

I think some of them bought into it. Some of them, you know, said, nah, it wouldn't happen, or you would get that, well, if it was any of our guys, that kind of thing.

[Paula Levine]

How do you interpret what Ed Hudak just said when he goes, if it was any of our guys?

[Dan Arruda]

I took it as if anyone on the team could be suspected of something like this, it would be Rashawn.

[Paula Levine]

How did the team feel about having Rashaun around with all of these rumors swirling?

[Dan Arruda]

Pastor Steve Caldwell told me it was weird.

[Pastor Steve Caldwell]

This was something that was a hard thing to discuss because I believe everyone thought. I ain't gonna say everyone. That's absolute. But a lot of people thought we had a killer amongst us.

[Interviewer (possibly Dan Arruda or Paula Levine)]

That's what blows me away, is that he was allowed to return and be with the team with this cloud of suspicion over him.

[Pastor Steve Caldwell]

But what do you do as a coach? You have no substantiated proof. So you. You go to what they say, innocent until proven guilty. And so that's how you operate as a coaching staff.

[Paula Levine]

Early on in his reporting, Dan spoke with head coach Larry Coker. He wanted to ask Coker directly about the Rashawn theory.

[Interviewer (possibly Dan Arruda or Paula Levine)]

I'm working with the family on this, and I've interviewed his mom and his brothers and sisters, and they have a theory that there was someone involved in his shooting that was involved with the team. Would that surprise you if that was true? Yes, it would.

[Paula Levine]

What?

[Interviewer (possibly Dan Arruda or Paula Levine)]

Why would it surprise you?

[Dan Arruda]

I just don't believe that.

[Interviewer (possibly Dan Arruda or Paula Levine)]

You don't believe it's possible that anyone that had some kind of affiliation with the team was capable of something like that?

[Dan Arruda]

It's possible. I don't believe it. I don't believe it happened that way.

[Interviewer (possibly Dan Arruda or Paula Levine)]

What do you believe happened?

[Dan Arruda]

I don't know. I don't know. He was tragically murdered.

[Paula Levine]

Whether Coker believed it happened or not, the rumors were out there. They were swirling among Brian's closest friends and family and had found their way to the police. Dave Howell had his own history with Rashawn and had witnessed the fight between Rashawn and Brian in the dorm room. He remembered the police asking him about whether that could have been a motive.

[Edric Pata]

I told him, I said, no. I didn't think that it would go that far. But like I told them, I said, but you never know because you don't really know the inside of an individual. But it's like I told him. Then I said, I don't see him taking it there.

[Paula Levine]

But others did, and their suspicions were still running high when Dan interviewed them.

[Edric Pata]

I don't know if he can come to a UM function, really.

[Paula Levine]

Kareem Brown was a defensive lineman in the same year as Brian. Dan spoke to him in 2018.

[Interviewer (possibly Dan Arruda or Paula Levine)]

Do you think Rashaun knows that people think he had something to do?

[Dan Arruda]

Of course you do.

[George Timmons]

Oh, he's not stupid. And I don't think he would come and just like, hey, I'm in Miami, guys. Like, I don't think he would do that, because who knows what would happen from there?

[Paula Levine]

Here's what we'd learned about Rashawn. He had a series of conflicts with Brian. He would have known the Hurricane's practice schedule and what time Brian would arrive home. And teammates said he owned a gun. No one could vouch for where he was at the time that Brian was killed. And he'd called a friend, reportedly asking for money to get out of town. When we finally reviewed Rashawn's phone records, we noticed the call logs were only from the number activated that afternoon and nothing from before. When we asked the state attorney's office about that omission, they declined to provide any information on the call logs we did have. We saw that he'd made or received 56 calls after Brian died. Four of those calls were with Trish Morgan, who was friends with both Rashawn and Brian. Five were with his family back in Lake City, eight were with his teammate Bruce Johnson, and 16 were with Sherry. But there's one notable gap in Rashawn's call log. For one hour between 6:40 and 7:40pm There were no calls in or out. The one hour all night that Rashawn's phone wasn't active was the time of Brian's murder. According to the police report, there were no eyewitnesses to the shooting. No murder weapon was ever found. There wasn't any security camera footage, and there was no record of any physical evidence linking Rashawn to the crime. The entire case against Rashawn Jones appeared circumstantial. But then there's this. A piece of evidence we learned about only in our final interview with detectives.

[Pastor Steve Caldwell]

There was an individual who saw a black male running away from the scene who's a resident in that apartment complex, and he's cooperating with the investigation. And he's still. At this point, we can't disclose his identity because he's still an active witness in this case.

[Paula Levine]

When we heard this, I felt like a cartoon character with an exclamation point going off. Over my head. It's still unclear what prompted police to finally disclose this information after five interviews and two years of conversations, but we were grateful for it. We'd eventually learn more about this witness and what he told the police. He didn't witness the shooting itself, but he saw someone leaving the Colony apartments on foot. He would later identify Rashawn as the person he saw. Throughout our reporting, we'd hoped to get Rashawn's side of the story. Remember, it had been 12 years since Rashawn had talked to the police about Bryant's case. We knew we might get only one chance to talk to Rashawn, so we wanted to wait until we had done enough reporting and knew exactly what questions to ask. In the spring of 2019, Dan finally got Rashawn on the phone. Rashawn didn't want the phone call to be recorded, so after they hung up, Dan filled in the rest of us on a conference call. Welcome to the Walt Disney Company Conference Center.

[Sherry Abramson]

Enter your conference code. Thank you. You will now be placed in conference.

[George Timmons]

Hi, who's on. Dan's here. Danny, what do you got? It's not good, unfortunately. I spoke to Rashaun twice in the last half an hour. The first time we got cut off. He is pretty adamant that he will not be taking part in our story. Rashaun's feelings are. This has been over for 12 years. The police didn't follow up with their. After their initial interview. This is over and done with. This is a part of his life that he doesn't want to go back to. He sees absolutely no reason and nothing good that can come from sitting down and talking to us. He said himself, if God Almighty came down and asked me to sit down, I would not do it.

[Paula Levine]

Did he say why?

[George Timmons]

He just doesn't see any reason to do it. He says he had nothing to do with it and nothing he can say is going to change anyone's mind. And he doesn't care what anybody thinks of him anyway.

[Paula Levine]

Did he say anything about possibly being a suspect?

[George Timmons]

All he said was that I talked to the police 12 years ago, that I talked to them, Sherry talked to them, and I never heard from them again. So obviously I'm not a suspect or else I would have been arrested.

[Dan Arruda]

I mean, I gotta admit, innocent or not, like, either way, I mean, he's not wrong. It's not a. It's

[George Timmons]

not a great, like, strategy for him to talk to us.

[Dan Arruda]

It makes sense that he wouldn't want to.

[George Timmons]

Stop.

[Dan Arruda]

Stop.

[George Timmons]

Rashawn is calling me. I'll call you back in a minute. Okay.

[Paula Levine]

About 20 minutes later, Dan came back onto the conference call.

[George Timmons]

Wow. You guys all still there?

[Dan Arruda]

Yep.

[George Timmons]

What do we know? So it wasn't Rashawn. It was his wife. And we just had one doozy of a conversation. Obviously, Rashawn is a bit freaked out about all this at this point, and he called his wife, and she decided to call me to try and figure out what's going on. So I explained to her as best I could what we were doing, why we were doing it. I tried to make it clear, as I did to Rashaun, that we're not out to get anybody, that we have no agenda, that we're trying to do our diligence as journalists in allowing him to give us his side of the story. And she just like he said, there is no his side. He didn't do anything. The police spoke to him once. He was never arrested. There's no side of the story. She said, you know, it's got to be his decision. And whatever he decides, I will back him on.

[Paula Levine]

Rashawn decided not to sit down for an interview with us, nor would his wife. After all, it had been over a decade. He knew the place had looked closely at him years ago, but nothing came of it. Why would he talk to a group of reporters about this case when it had all happened so long ago? But once we began asking questions, the sense that all of this was firmly in the past began to unravel. And if Rashawn thought that the Miami Dade Police no longer considered him a suspect, that confidence would turn out to be very misguided. Does MDPD know who killed Brian Potter?

[Dan Arruda]

Yeah, we have a strong belief as to who's responsible for his death.

[Paula Levine]

That's next time on Murder at the U. Murder at the U is based on reporting by me, Paula Levine, and Dan Arruda, with support from Scott Frankel, Elizabeth Merrill, and ESPN's investigative unit. Our senior producer is Matt Frasica. Our senior editorial producer is Preeti Varathan. Our associate producers are Megan Coyle and Gus Navarro. Story editing by Adeza Egan. Additional editing by Ben Weber and Mike Drago. Our archival producer is Matthew Fisher. Our line producer is Kath Senke. Production managers are Jason Schwartz and Sheena Williams. Fact checking by David Sabino. Original music and sound design by Ryan Ross Smith. Chris Buckle is vice president of ESPN investigative enterprise and digital journalism. Marcia Cook, Brian Lockhart, Heather Anderson and Burke Magnus are executive producers for 30. For 30,

[George Timmons]

it.