The After Show: A Killer Renovation

Summary

Podcast Summary: 20/20 After Show – A Killer Renovation Release Date: July 14, 2025
Host: Debra Roberts
Producers: Blu Browning, Emma Picha

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Introduction

In this gripping episode of the 20/20 After Show titled "A Killer Renovation," host Debra Roberts delves into the haunting true crime story of Shanti Cooper Traunis, a young and successful mother who was brutally murdered in her own home amidst a significant renovation project. The episode not only explores the tragic circumstances of her death but also uncovers the intricate layers of her family life and community dynamics that ultimately led to the revelation of her husband, David Tranas, as the perpetrator.

Background: The Traunis Family and Their Home

Debra begins by setting the scene in Delaney Park, a serene and picturesque neighborhood in Orlando, Florida. She describes Delaney Park as a close-knit community with beautifully manicured lawns and unique architectural styles, including Shanti and David's home adorned with unusual gargoyles. Emma Picha adds, "It’s right off downtown Orlando, next to a hospital. Beautiful streets, manicured lawns, Spanish moss covering the trees, and a strong sense of community" ([02:42]).

Shanti Cooper Traunis, a successful financial consultant, was married to David Tranas, who had previously been divorced. Together, they had an eight-year-old son, Jackson. The couple met online through Match.com, and their relationship quickly intensified, leading David to relocate from Minnesota to Florida. Emma notes, "David described this as his second shot at love. They had a deep, soulful connection" ([05:21]).

The Renovation and Rising Tensions

The couple embarked on a massive home renovation project, spending over $200,000 to transform their residence from a bare shell into what they hoped would be their dream home. However, the renovation process was tumultuous. David frequently hired and fired construction crews, leading to a chaotic and stressful environment. Debra mentions, "They were tearing down and building up so much that the house became almost uninhabitable" ([05:41]).

Emma adds insight into their living situation: "They lived in the garage loft because the main house was too unsafe with exposed nails and open planks" ([05:41]). This constant upheaval and lack of stability began to strain their marriage, with Shanti often questioning when her name would appear on the deed, indicating her concerns about the financial and legal aspects of their home ownership.

The Incident: Shanti’s Murder

On the night of the incident, David Tranas called the police, claiming he found Shanti unconscious in the bathroom tub. Upon arrival, police initially suspected an accident, possibly a fall due to Shanti's reported health issues. However, Detectives Theresa Sprague and Barbara Sharp of the Orlando PD, described as "dogged" and thorough, noticed inconsistencies in the scene. At [05:43], Debra remarks, "Detectives started to see that this wasn’t just a simple accident."

Further investigation revealed that Shanti had been brutally strangled and beaten, contradicting the initial drowning theory. The detectives observed that the bathtub scene didn't add up—the carpet was dry, and evidence suggested that Shanti was moved post-mortem. Emma highlights, "They found blood underneath the bed frame, indicating the attack likely happened there, not in the tub" ([20:14]).

Uncovering David’s Double Life

As Detectives Sprague and Sharp delved deeper, they uncovered unsettling truths about David's life. It emerged that David had been frequenting a gym exclusively for gay men, raising questions about his true identity and possible motives. Emma notes, "David had claimed to be a multimillionaire, but financial records didn't support this. It seemed he was living a double life" ([17:45]).

This revelation added complexity to the case, prompting investigations into whether David's deceit extended to other aspects of his life and whether Shanti was aware of his true activities. Despite these findings, David remained uncooperative, having lawyered up to avoid further scrutiny.

The Trial and Conviction

With mounting evidence against him, David Tranas was charged with the murder of Shanti Cooper Traunis. The prosecution's case centered on the discrepancies in David's accounts and the physical evidence pointing to him as the perpetrator. During the trial, prosecutors posited that the stress and chaos of the ongoing renovations provided a motive for David to commit the murder.

Emma discusses the trial's focus: "Prosecutors chose to emphasize the home renovation stress rather than David's possible motives related to his visit to the gay gym, likely to present a clear and focused narrative to the jury" ([22:12]).

Ultimately, despite lacking a clear murder weapon or video evidence, the jury found David guilty based on the circumstantial evidence and the detectives' persistent investigation. Debra summarizes, "The combination of false financial claims, the double life, and inconsistencies in David’s story led to his conviction" ([20:56]).

Impact on the Family: Jackson’s Story

A poignant aspect of the episode is the introduction of Jackson, Shanti's eight-year-old son at the time of her murder. Debra shares her emotional encounter with Jackson, who was by then 12 years old. Jackson's impact statement during the trial revealed the deep grief and lasting trauma inflicted by his mother's death. He articulated, "My mother's passing was like a hole in my heart that I can't feel or fix" ([27:27]).

Emma adds, "Jackson has shown incredible resilience. He's now 15, excelling in school, and actively involved in activities like gym workouts and surf camp" ([29:39]). The detectives involved in the case were touched by Jackson's strength, symbolizing the enduring impact of Shanti's loss on her family.

Community Aftermath and Continuing Struggles

The Traunis family's home remains a symbol of tragedy within the Delaney Park community. Overgrown and boarded up, the house stands as a stark contrast to the once-beautiful neighborhood. Debra notes, "The house is now an eyesore, representing the unresolved pain and disruption caused by the crime" ([30:02]).

Jim Cooper, Shanti's ex-husband, continues to support Jackson, ensuring that he grows up with fond memories of his mother. The family remains embroiled in legal battles to reclaim their home and access unlocked financial resources, highlighting the prolonged struggle that follows such a devastating loss.

Conclusion

"A Killer Renovation" serves as a haunting reminder of how outward appearances can mask deep-seated turmoil. Through meticulous reporting and empathetic storytelling, Debra Roberts and her team at 20/20 After Show shed light on the complexities of the Traunis family's tragic story. The episode not only chronicles the unraveling of a seemingly perfect marriage but also honors the memory of Shanti Cooper Traunis and the resilience of her son, Jackson.

Notable Quotes

• Debra Roberts: "They were tearing down and building up so much that the house became almost uninhabitable." ([05:41])
• Emma Picha: "David described this as his second shot at love. They had a deep, soulful connection." ([05:21])
• Detective Sharpe: "This is like a 2020 episode." referring to the unexpected twists in the case ([12:57])
• Jackson: "I could tell it was really hard for my dad to say this, but he told me that my mom was gone." ([26:02])
• Ryan Vecchio (Former Prosecutor): "The house was representative of the relationship between Shanti and David. From the outside, everything looked polished, but inside, it was turmoil." ([08:50])

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Note: This summary excludes all advertisement segments and non-content sections to focus solely on the narrative and investigative elements of the episode.

Transcript

[Debra Roberts]

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[Debra Roberts]

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Hi there, everybody. I'm Debra Roberts, and welcome to another episode of 20 20, the After Show. Today we are talking about a story that I won't forget because I had an opportunity to report this one. It was called a killer renovation. And that's exactly what happened. It tells the story of a young and successful mom, Shanti Cooper Traunis, who is murdered in her own home in the midst of a renovation, leaving behind an eight year old son and her husband at the time, David Tranas. I remember this story so very well, partly because it was in the Orlando area where I had worked many, many years ago. And there were so many elements that were just unforgettable. Everything from a TV show about zombie house flipping to the unearthing of her husband's secret life, which eventually led detectives to him as the killer. Joining us to take a deeper dive into the behind the scenes of this episode is producer Blu Browning and field producer Emma Picha. Hey guys.

[Blu Browning]

Hi.

[Debra Roberts]

Hey, Blu, you're getting to be an old hand at this.

[Emma Picha]

It's good to see you again here, Emma.

[Debra Roberts]

You're welcome. Thanks for having on the podcast.

[Blu Browning]

Yeah, I'm excited.

[Debra Roberts]

Well, we talk about all of these stories and I always like to bring the listeners in because oftentimes we bump into each other in the hallway and we talk about either what we're working or in this case, this story when we were working on it. And you know, Blu, I just was. When you came to me to talk about this story, I just remember just my mind was sort of blown with all the twists and turns. It was in an area called Delaney park in Orlando, a really beautiful area. I had worked in that area as a local reporter. The Central Florida area. I didn't know about Delaney Park. Tell us about that area. Why that was sort of striking to you against this backdrop.

[Emma Picha]

So going there and seeing it firsthand myself when I arrived. Cause my mom lives in Orlando, but I had never heard of this area myself. And so it's just, it's right off of downtown Orlando, right next to a hospital. But it's beautiful streets, manicured lawns, all this old moss.

[Debra Roberts]

Spanish moss.

[Emma Picha]

Yes. And just in the neighborhood. The neighbors, they're so Close knit. Emma and I, we got to meet some of them, and this wasn't in the show, but they even have a text chain that they communicate with one another. I've even talking to Ron Gordy, one of the neighbors who was in the show. He said they even had an occasional cocktail hour together. They had swans out on the lake where they'd all take an active role in raising babies every spring. Some of them would even travel together. So they very close knit. And it almost reminded me of that movie the Burbs with Tom Hanks.

[Debra Roberts]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was a beautiful old neighborhood, Emma. And that was what struck me, too. It just felt, as Blue said, very close knit. And it felt peaceful. And you wouldn't have expected anything tragic, which is what we hear often when we do these stories. Nobody would expect that here. Let's talk about, though, when you're out there in the field and you're trying to help bring these stories to life for us, and in a place like this, you're trying to figure out what to shoot before we get to the details of the story. Tell me about your approaching the scene and just trying to figure out how we're gonna put it together.

[Blu Browning]

Yeah, you know, it's interesting. For this particular show, we really lucked out because a lot of people let us film in their natural habitats. We were filming in people's house, and all the neighbors were welcoming and, like, were totally willing to have us sit in. In their houses, in their garages. And you always want to find the spots that represent the neighborhood. Right. So actually, so many of the neighbors were super kind about it. Ron Gordy, like, Blue, just mentioned we were setting up our shot, and he was like, oh, you know, my partner and I have to go on a run, but if you want to follow our car, I'll just point out different spots that, like, mean something to the neighborhood. And so we kind of just followed him around and then made a mental map and went through and shot them after.

[Debra Roberts]

Which flavor of this community? Well, Blue, let's talk about the couple. Shanti Cooper Tranas and her husband, David Shawnte, had been married before. That marriage ended in divorce, but they had this lovely son, Jackson. She had met this new guy online who happened to live in Minnesota. I remember that because they hit it off pretty quickly. Before you knew it, he moved to Florida. And some people in her life thought it was a little strange that because she was this very smart, successful woman, a financial consultant. Talk about that relationship. And the two of them connecting.

[Emma Picha]

They met on Match Dot Com. And he was, you know, like you said, living in Minnesota at the time. David described this as his second shot at love. They had the deep, soulful, meaningful connection, he said. But he also. He had worked at a company called 3M in Minneapolis and was apparently successful. And he was able to retire from that business in his 50s when. With a sizable amount of income.

[Debra Roberts]

So she got the impression that he had money. Money and that he was doing well. He had been married before.

[Emma Picha]

Yes.

[Debra Roberts]

And there were people who thought that she moved really quickly. This guy came into her life. They move into this house, they begin this big renovation. We saw incredible videos of the house as kind of a shell. Bare bones, wood planks. And they were living there.

[Emma Picha]

Yes. Which. It was wild. When you see these videos, how did anybody live in this house? But we did learn that it was uninhabitable. And so basically, they live in this garage. It's almost like a separate house. It was the garage loft. Shanti and her son would live upstairs. And we later found out that there were some problems in the marriage. And David was living in the garage, sleeping down there with the dogs. So it wasn't this dream home or dream scenario situation. It sounded, from everybody that we heard, this was very stressful.

[Debra Roberts]

Yeah. Yeah. As renovations can be two or three.

[Detective]

Years since you've been doing the renovation.

[Debra Roberts]

Right, right.

[Detective]

She left David in charge of that renovation. And it got worse and worse and worse.

[Debra Roberts]

David hired and fired construction crews regularly.

[Emma Picha]

It seemed like, okay, Dave's got this contractor. Good. Now we're moving forward a week or two later. Oh, well, we let this guy go.

[Debra Roberts]

She would tell me, well, we tore.

[Blu Browning]

This out and we did this, but now we gotta get new blueprints because this is going on.

[Debra Roberts]

You're just like, oh, my gosh.

[Jackson]

It's just an open area. There's no floors, there's no walls. There's nothing separating. It's just a big open room. My mom wouldn't let me walk in there because there was nails everywhere. The floor was literally taken off. You need to walk in planks to get around.

[Debra Roberts]

Emma. What about the house itself? Because it was, like, really ornate. And these fixtures, I mean, for listeners who may not have seen the program, describe this house, because I remember just thinking it had potential to really be beautiful, but it's a little bizarre.

[Blu Browning]

Yeah. It's kind of a stately sore thumb almost, in that the whole neighborhood is very well manicured. Everyone takes really good care of their homes. And they're all kind of different architectural styles. A little bit and this one specifically was very interesting because it has gargoyles on it.

[Debra Roberts]

Oh, that's cool.

[Blu Browning]

And I've never seen gargoyles on just a regular house before. Like, it's not a mansion, you know, it's a regular home, but there are gargoyles on top. And it now, because no one's l there, it's covered in vines, and everything is overgrown and, like, kind of mishavisham y in a sense of. It's just kind of a jungle area in the middle of this really beautiful community.

[Debra Roberts]

And this community is having to live with it. Blue. Was there any symbolism for you between the house and, if you think about it, Shaunti's story as we were telling.

[Emma Picha]

It, well, just in the interviews that we did, this didn't even make it into the show as well. But Ryan Deccio, the former prosecutor, he even saw the symbolism. And I just made a note here of what he said, but he said the house was representative, I think, of the relationship between Shanti and David. From the outside, everything looks polished and expensive and in place. But as soon as you looked inside the house, you saw that there was utter decay. He said, it's the same about this marriage. Shanti and David were so into giving this outward expression of love and togetherness and helping to raise Jackson. But as soon as somebody actually looked inside, it was turmoil, shambles. There was broken pieces. There was things literally decaying and falling apart. He says he thinks that's what led to this incident.

[Debra Roberts]

Yeah, well, let's talk about the incident, because this was really stunning for that tranquil community. So David Traunnis calls police to his home, says his wife is unconscious in the bathroom tub. And, you know, they get there, and they declare that she's dead. And. And it was a shocker to everybody. And, of course, he seemed to be shocked, and police seemed to just think, this guy, you know, what. What happened. He. He's sort of implying that either she fell or something to that effect. And police initially just think this is an accident in the home, Right. Yeah.

[Blu Browning]

Because she had been having symptoms of illness, they were kind of wondering if that maybe she had fallen while she was ill and that, you know, led to her hitting her head. But clearly, that was not the case.

[Emma Picha]

Yeah. Upon closer look, these detectives who worked so hard at this case.

[Debra Roberts]

I love these two women, by the way.

[Emma Picha]

They found that she had been brutally strangled and beaten, and this was not some drowning or slip and fall in the bathtub.

[Debra Roberts]

Yeah. Orlando PD Detectives Theresa Sprague and Barbara Sharp. I want to Talk more about them. But we're gonna take a quick break and we're gonna talk about David Traunas double life and those two amazing detectives who knocked down his lies. Stay with us.

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We are back now talking about our 2020 episode called A Killer Renovation. It was one that just kept us thinking and our mouths were dropping the whole time we were putting this story together. Shaunti Cooper Traunis found dead at her home. And police are on the scene. They've been looking into the case. And let's talk about how they were doing the digging and the legwork. As I said earlier, there were detectives whom I had a chance to interview down in Florida, in Orlando, and they were focused on trying to find justice. But what I loved about it was that they kind of reminded me of Cagney and Lacey. Right. They were a little bit different, the two of them, but they brought something very different to the case. And they just got into it when they were doing interviews and when they were talking to David Traunis. Emma, what'd you make upon meeting them?

[Blu Browning]

Oh, I loved them. They were awesome. They're so smart and so kind, and it really, I mean, I was fortunate enough just to shoot the B roll. I didn't get to sit down for an interview. They were willing to help out with anything we asked, and they were super prepared to make sure that we could show everything that they had and a lot of fun. And we were shooting B roll at.

[Debra Roberts]

Night and B roll. We should explain to listeners, it is just like the footage.

[Blu Browning]

Additional visuals.

[Debra Roberts]

Yeah.

[Blu Browning]

To set the scene. We had just finished filming them in their offices, and the cameraman and I went out to film some nighttime shots of the Orlando PD office. And Detective Sharpe actually came out and hung out with us because she was like, you know, it's nighttime, you're near the precinct. Like, might as well give you a little bit of extra security. Which was really very lovely. It was really nice.

[Debra Roberts]

They said the same thing to me when they came to the interview. Location blue, which happened to be in a kind of a rough section of town, let me tell you. And they said to me, no, we want to make sure we keep an eye on you. In one of the interviews, though, oh, my gosh. I don't remember which one said it blew, but she said, this is like a 2020 episode.

[Emma Picha]

That is so funny that you brought that up too, Deborah. And I'm glad you did, because that was Detective Sharpe. Yep. And I said, wow. She said it because it was so many twists and turns. It just didn't know where this case was gonna go.

[Debra Roberts]

It truly was like a TV episode. And when they started off interviewing David Traunis and they're doing like any investigator does in all these stories that we cover, you know, if there's a couple involved, they're gonna start with the spouse. Right. So they start questioning him. And at first he was cooperative. I don't think he raised any red flags until they began to talk to him. You brought David Traunis.

[Detective]

This is interview room six. This is where we interviewed Mr. Traunis.

[Debra Roberts]

Okay. So now he is a man who has just lost his wife.

[Detective]

Yeah.

[Debra Roberts]

Clearly upset about it. I mean, you let him know that you feel badly for what has happened. Right.

[Detective]

First of all, on behalf of the Orlando Police Department, we want to say how sorry we are for your loss, David, and also for everything that you're going through. I know this is very traumatic for you.

[Debra Roberts]

How does he say that he finds Shanti?

[Detective]

He said when he entered the loft apartment, the first thing that he noticed or observed was he said hello. And he didn't get a response. And then he heard the sound of trickling water. Slowly trickling water. He proceeds to the bathroom where he says he finds his wife face down in a tub full of rose colored water.

[Debra Roberts]

The water's like half full.

[Emma Picha]

She's submerged partially, and it's just extremely awful.

[Debra Roberts]

And it doesn't look natural.

[Emma Picha]

Obviously she fell or something happened. They accused him of fake tears while they're interviewing him. He was in that interrogation room for 14 hours.

[Debra Roberts]

Some of their colleagues would not have gone that long with him. We probably would have started again the next day. Right. They were dogging.

[Emma Picha]

And I think you went to that room, and you got to see it firsthand. And I can't even imagine something horrific like that happening in my own life. Being able to sit there in a room for 14 hours. I would be pacing. I'd be nervous. But we saw him covered up in a blanket at times. They told you that he would even switch between talking to them casually, then breaking into tears. And they assumed it was some sort.

[Debra Roberts]

Of an act, but they didn't really believe the tears.

[Emma Picha]

They didn't believe the tears?

[Debra Roberts]

Yeah. What got me was that they said he started giving them too much information. Okay. So his wife is found, and there's a bloody scene. And so he clearly is trying to give them information to explain. And they're like, we didn't even ask you that. So their radar went up, which is why they continued. Continued. So they had deep suspicions about him in the very beginning. So they eventually let him go. They are suspicious of him. Not much they can do about it at the time. They let him go. And then they start looking into their lives blue. And they are looking at his financial situations, and then they start to discover he wasn't as wealthy as they thought.

[Emma Picha]

Well, David had told Shanti that he was a millionaire, but the question always came up, if David always has all this money, why doesn't he help her buy anything? And actually, Shaunti was the one who was paying for all these renovations, so over $200,000 in renovations. She kept asking him, like, when is my name going to be on the deed? When is my name going to be on the deed? And I think it never happened. And so talking to the former prosecutor, Ryan Vecchio, he said, we had learned through the investigation, David, he claimed to be a multimillionaire that had inherited money from other family members. But they were never able to confirm that. And that was important because they were just trying to differentiate. Is this somebody who's really a millionaire, or was he trying to latch onto someone and take advantage of them?

[Debra Roberts]

And all those details start to tell them something about the state of the marriage. They question Shaunti's former husband, and he's very cooperative.

[Emma Picha]

And Jim Cooper, you know, obviously, the divorce was contentious. So he is going to be one of those people that detectives want to rule out. And I remember Detective Sprague and Detective Sharp saying, we haven't cleared him yet. We gotta clear him first. So there was always that. They have to, you know, eliminate everybody so they can really start honing in on David Tranas.

[Debra Roberts]

Her ex husband, Jim Cooper, is cleared. Police do not see him as a suspect. And eventually, well, there was a bombshell in the story because David Tranas is married to Shanti. By the outward appearances, they have this lovely marriage. But then, then they discover some records that show that he had been going to a gym for gay men.

[Emma Picha]

And that was so fascinating to me too, Deborah, because as we dug into the story, we interviewed multiple people, neighbors, friends, family members. Nobody could tell us if Shaunti knew that he was going to this gym or if she did know, was she just hiding it from everybody to put on this facade that everything was great? Well, by the time detectives learn about this, David had lawyered up and he couldn't be questioned to get a response. So we never were able to confirm whether she knew. And that was part of the reason why they didn't enter it into the trial.

[Debra Roberts]

So the detectives now are starting to think this wasn't even what we expected to find. Now they're zeroing in on David Traunas even more.

[Emma Picha]

Yes, and I think we were trying to figure out what was the motive here. Was it the home renovations? Could it have been him going to this gym? That could have started an argument. I think that what the trial focused on, what the prosecutors at the trial, they focused on the home renovations.

[Debra Roberts]

Right. They discover, of course, that the husband is looking suspicious. But then they also blew. I remember they revealed, you know, they started to look closer at the crime scene, and it didn't seem to be consistent with just a fall, and it looked like the body had been moved. And these two were just dogged about how this might have happened. They start in their minds recreating, like, how he might have killed her. They don't have, you know, a murder weapon per se, but they eventually charge him with murder. Yes, they're convinced he killed his wife.

[Emma Picha]

I mean, the bathtub, the scene, they. They noticed the carpet was dry. She was dry. How could she have been in the bathtub? So there were all these questions. Things were not adding up as. As David Tranes had portrayed in that 14 hour interview to them. And, you know, he claimed he was walking the dogs and he came home and found her in this bathtub. But things were not adding up to the story that he was giving to them.

[Debra Roberts]

They wind up charging David Traunis with murder. The trial goes on, and prosecutors don't really have a clear cut case. Right. They don't have a murder weapon. They don't have video cameras that tell them. But they are convinced that David Traunis did this, even though he claims that his wife fell in the shower. And then they be to present some evidence that she didn't really. That the blood wasn't just confined to the shower, that she didn't seem to have fallen in the bathtub.

[Emma Picha]

Right, Right. So detectives had this theory that when Shanti was going to her bed that night, she was taking off her earring and putting it on the nightstand next to her. And when she did that, they think that that's when she got the first blow from this attack.

[Debra Roberts]

The blunt trauma to the blunt. To the head.

[Emma Picha]

To the head. They don't think that. I'm assuming that they don't even think anything happened in that bathtub. That that was just something that they were. That David was trying to put forth as a story as to what happened. Because what happened is they found blood underneath the bed in the bed frame. And they're thinking that whatever happened, that that attack, it had to have happened on that bed because of the evidence of the blood.

[Debra Roberts]

I thought it was so interesting that the. One of the detectives said, as a woman, I'm thinking this is probably how it happened. She was sitting here taking off one earring, and then she gets hit over the head. Blunt force trauma is probably what killed her, but that would explain why. And a male detective might not have put that together.

[Emma Picha]

Right.

[Debra Roberts]

But these two women actually did. So prosecutors go with that theory that he had hit her over the head somehow and that she had died in that bedroom. So he was not the suffering husband. That trial was something else. I mean, what surprised you guys about the trial?

[Emma Picha]

I think that the fact that him going to the gay gym was not brought in at trial. And I remember us asking the prosecutors who worked on the case, the current prosecutors, and they just said, not gonna talk about it. It's not relevant. And so we never got a clear answer from them as to what they thought about that. But talking to other people, nobody could say if Shaunti knew. So I just thought that was really fascinating that they ch. Totally. And maybe they wanted to portray to the jury like a single idea and didn't want to muddle the waters, per se, as could this have been a motive? Could this have been a motive? Maybe they thought that sticking to the home renovations was the best strategy and.

[Debra Roberts]

That that was enough stress. Well, there was somebody who attended that trial every day. He was only 8 years old at the time that his mom was murdered. And when we come back after this break, we're going to talk about Shanti's son Jackson, who I will never forget. And of course he remembers his mom.

[Blu Browning]

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[Debra Roberts]

We're back with Blu and Emma talking about our episode of 2020 that we worked on together called A Killer Renovation. David Tranas was convicted. He goes to trial in the death of his wife Shawnti, and a jury finds him guilty of her murder. But we haven't really talked about Shaunti's son Jackson, who was 8 years old at the time of the murder. And just so I don't even know how to describe it, just unforgettable and just so self possessed. And he just sort of grabbed my heart when I sat down to do an interview with him. By the time we talked to him, he was probably about 12. And he just talked about wanting to be there for his mom and how important that was to him. And I'm sure it wasn't easy for him to go on television for the very first time with us and talk about that.

[Emma Picha]

Yes, Deborah, and I remember that day that you interviewed him. You even spoke to Jim, his father, and you said, should we have this interview in front of him? I remember you saying that you wanted to be very sensitive and Jim said it's okay, we can interview me in front of him. We've discussed this, we've talked about this. So I was amazed too. I think he's just grown up so much and had to dip so fast and hearing all These details, I'm sure it's so hard. But we were all amazed by his human spirit and all this. And I remember the story on the day that he found out his mom had died. He was at school and no one had picked him up. And officers had to reach out to his dad, Jim, to pick him up. And Jim said he knew something was wrong. And he drove Jackson over to the.

[Debra Roberts]

House but left him in the car because he didn't want him to witness something.

[Emma Picha]

But Jackson saw that crime scene tape, but Jim said he regrets bringing him over there. And the thing that touched me is when you asked Jim one of the hardest questions.

[Debra Roberts]

How do you tell an 8 year old boy that his mom's gone? I don't know. That's gotta be a hard thing to do.

[Emma Picha]

Yeah, the worst.

[Debra Roberts]

What about Jackson for you? Emma? You had a chance to meet him and talk to him and we're talking about interviewing him about such a sensitive and a traumatic time. What were your impressions of him?

[Blu Browning]

Oh, he's. I mean, he's a wonderful kid. He has such incredible emotional intelligence. I think talking to him, you feel like you're talking to someone who really is very self possessed and self aware. And I wanted him to be able to tell me like his most important things.

[Debra Roberts]

Right.

[Blu Browning]

I didn't go in with questions. I just wanted him to tell me what he loved about his mom and.

[Debra Roberts]

What he remembered, which is so important for when we go in to do these stories, how we approach people. And I just, I pride myself and us as an organization in being sensitive and knowing that these are families that are dealing with trauma.

[Jackson]

I could tell it was really hard for my dad to say this, but he told me that my mom was gone. And at first I didn't really understand what he meant, but as it sunk in, it didn't really feel real. I didn't want to believe it. I didn't believe it. I thought that he was wrong and he made a mistake. I was making so many excuses in my head and just to say like, she's fine and she's alive.

[Debra Roberts]

But the days go on and the weeks go on and you realize that.

[Jackson]

She'S not coming back and she's. What he said was true and that she did pass away.

[Debra Roberts]

Blue. In court, Jackson actually read a statement, an impact statement. I think he shared it with us as well. But it was really, really just hard hitting about what he had lost in his mom.

[Emma Picha]

He said that his mother's passing was like a hole in my heart that I can't feel or fix. And he wanted people to know how good of a person his mom was. And interesting thing about that, too. I remember on one interview, we had interviewed Ryan Veschiaud and a friend, Melissa, of Shaunti's, and Jim showed up at that. That shoot that day, and he just told me that any chance that Jackson gets, he wants people to know about his mom, whether that's on a YouTube channel or a TV show like ours or anything. He wants people to get to know who his mom is. And the more people that see her, the more views. It's another chance for people to get to know his mom. And I know Jackson is just so proud of her. And, Emma, you got these home videos that we got that show her with Jackson.

[Blu Browning]

Yeah, they're spectacular. I mean, they were on DVDRs, so they're like smaller DVD discs. And the family, I don't think, had the right machinery to play them. And so you're so young.

[Debra Roberts]

I can't believe you even knew what DVD RS were.

[Blu Browning]

A little bit of Googling, you know, so we have the right equipment here in New York. And so Jim was kind enough to send us all of that. And it was a real honor to be able to send back, like, three, four hours of family footage that I don't think Jackson had ever seen that.

[Debra Roberts]

Painted a picture of his mother exactly.

[Blu Browning]

How much they loved each other.

[Debra Roberts]

Well, he left an impression on the two detectives. They actually gave him a little coin because they wanted to make sure he knew that they were seeking justice for his mom.

[Blu Browning]

Yeah, they gave it to him as a promise. But he. He has a lot of mementos of his mother in his bedroom, and the coin is right on top of his dresser with all the photos of her.

[Debra Roberts]

Very, very sweet.

[Emma Picha]

I wanted to let you know, too, Deborah, that Jim and I. I texted him yesterday just to follow up, to see how he and Jackson are holding up, because it's been a while since all this has happened. He said Jackson is now 15, and Jim says he's as tall as him now. He's wearing his clothes, and Jim's about 6 foot 3. And Jackson just finished ninth grade. He got good grades, and he's working out at Jim's gym four days a week. And he just started surf camp.

[Debra Roberts]

Oh, that's fabulous. That's fabulous. That's so nice that you still kept a relationship so that we can sort of, you know, stand and follow up. And I think that's so important in these stories.

[Emma Picha]

And you made an impression on him, too, so. And he always asks you know, when can I come visit Deborah, you know.

[Debra Roberts]

So well, he told me his grandma really liked me and I was like, thanks, Jackson. I appreciate that.

[Emma Picha]

They did. Also, Jim also did give me an update about the whole situation with the house. And they're still fighting with David Tranez behind bars trying to get the house. They're trying to get funds unfrozen and the life insurance policies. But that house still stands, you know, with the overgrown shrubbery and just. It's basically a shell. It's almost a hazard, safety hazard. So, you know, going up there, there's plywood, plywood boarded up. People can't approach the house.

[Debra Roberts]

Yeah, it's got to be an eyesore for the neighbors. But it's really, really nice to hear that Jackson is doing well and I'm glad you were able to stay in touch with him. Traunus is in prison, we should say, and no signs of him being released.

[Emma Picha]

And also, Deborah, his latest appeal was denied and he hasn't currently filed a new appeal yet. So we'll see what happens if he does file a new appeal.

[Debra Roberts]

Yeah, okay. We'll stay on the story. Well, thank you, guys.

[Blu Browning]

Thank you.

[Debra Roberts]

Great spending a little time with you. And thank you all for listening to this episode of 2020 the After Show. And of course, you can check out 2020 anytime on Hulu and Hulu on Disney, and of course, right here on the 2020 podcast feed. The 2020 After show is produced by Amira Williams and Sasha Aslanian with Sean Dooley, Brian Mazersky and Alex Barenfeld of 20 20. Theme music by Evan Viola. Janice Johnston is the executive producer of 2020. Josh Cullen is the director of podcasting at ABC audio, and Laura Mayer is the executive producer.

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