The After Show: I’m Going To Get You

Summary

20/20 After Show: "I’m Going To Get You" ABC News, November 17, 2025

---

Episode Overview

This episode of the 20/20 After Show dives deeper into the haunting and ultimately resolved true crime case featured in “I’m Going To Get You.” Host Deborah Roberts is joined by correspondent Juju Chang, who covered the story of Debbie Dorian, a 22-year-old Fresno State University graduate whose murder went unsolved for nearly two decades. The conversation explores the tenacious investigation, the toll on the victim’s family, and the courage of a survivor whose actions helped solve the case.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Victim: Debbie Dorian

• Background: Debbie was a bright, ambitious student—president of the Economics Club, about to pursue a master’s degree, with dreams of becoming an audiologist like her father. (03:58)
• Family Impact: Her father, Peter, discovered her body; her mother, Sarah, became the family’s advocate for justice. Sarah’s grief and dedication, including planting pine trees in Debbie’s memory, are poignantly discussed (05:38).

The Crime & Investigation

• The Crime: Debbie was found bound and murdered in August 1996; the case initially generated few leads. (02:40)
• The Search for a Suspect:
  • Investigators explored those who responded to Debbie’s roommate ads, zeroing in at one point on Alvin, a registered sex offender, and then Maurice Dixon, who were later eliminated through DNA evidence. (07:15–08:30)
  • Racial tensions and the influence of recent high-profile cases (such as O.J. Simpson) influenced the investigation’s context and perception. (08:31)
  • Despite testing DNA from 146 people over 20 years, no match appeared in CODIS, as Debbie’s killer was not a convicted violent criminal. (09:10–12:14)
• Breakthrough via Jane Doe Warrant & DNA: Prosecutors stopped the statute of limitations from expiring by issuing a "John Doe" arrest warrant tied to the DNA profile. (13:09)

The “Brave Survivor”: Beth (Jane Doe #1)

• Critical Details:
  • Beth, assaulted while biking home at age 19, confronted her attacker: “I’m gonna get you. You’re not gonna get away with it.” (16:18)
  • Her presence of mind—avoiding leading her attacker home, getting her sister, and calling police—enabled recovery of a crucial DNA sample. (14:14–14:41)
• Personal Impact: Now in her 40s, Beth shared the lifelong pain and healing journey, including the help of her comfort dog. (17:19)
• Motivation to Speak Out: “She felt that she wanted to put a face to face. ...It almost destroyed her life. And she was very candid with us about the impact it had on her throughout the years.” (15:47–15:58)

Forensic Genetic Genealogy & The Golden State Killer Effect

• Game-changing Technology: Inspired by the Golden State Killer case, investigators used genealogy databases to build family trees from DNA samples not in CODIS. Within days, they had traced the suspect’s lineage and pinpointed a suspect living locally. (20:28–21:47)
• Quote: Juju Chang: “They were able to, within days, compile a family tree...and find who was living in this area, who matches this description, who matches this age. Bingo. We think we have our man.” (21:30)

The Killer: Nikki Stain

• Profile: Stain was a married father, PTA member, and mall restaurant manager—“hiding in plain sight.” (22:06)
• Apprehension:
  • He denied knowing Debbie and refused an oral DNA swab when confronted by police: “Nope. You’ve never committed any violence against her? No, I haven’t.” (23:01–23:22)
  • Investigators obtained his DNA via items found in his trash, confirming the match. (24:23)
  • He maintained a “fantasy persona” on a fake Facebook account as "Nikki Steele." (25:02)
• Justice Served: Stain pled guilty to 12 felonies—murder and multiple sexual assaults—to avoid the death penalty. Prosecutors insisted on recognizing all sexual assault charges: “Beth, Jane Doe Number 1, 2, 3, and 4 deserve their crime, to be on the record and for him to serve time for that crime.” (26:03)

The Perseverance of Investigators and Families

• Detective Vince Zavala’s Role: Zavala kept his promise to Debbie’s mother and never stopped searching. He is described as embodying determination and “Hart.” (26:37)
• Victims’ Families: Debbie’s mother delivered a moving impact statement in court, speaking as her daughter to articulate all that was lost. (28:00)

---

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• Deborah Roberts: “As a parent, this was a story to me that just felt like every parent’s worst nightmare.” (00:33)
• Juju Chang on the DNA genealogy breakthrough: “And bingo. They were able to, within days, compile a family tree based on the genetic samples and find who was living in this area, who matches this description, who matches this age. Bingo. We think we have our man.” (21:37)
• Beth (Jane Doe #1):

  “I was 19. You have a gun to your head, you do what you’re told. And the whole time, all I remember saying is, I’m gonna get you. You’re not gonna get away with it.” (16:18)

• Juju Chang (on survivor impact): “For somebody that strong, that feisty, to have it make her life go so sideways...such a salve to other survivors who feel like, why can’t I just get over this?” (16:42)
• Juju Chang, on justice: “Beth, Jane Doe Number 1, 2, 3, and 4 deserve their crime, to be on the record and for him to serve time for that crime.” (26:03)
• Sarah Dorian’s statement (as recounted by Juju Chang): Sarah spoke in her daughter’s voice in court, “I will never get married. I will never have children. I will never have the life that you took from me, essentially.” (28:00)

---

Important Timestamps

• 00:33 – Introduction and case summary by Deborah Roberts
• 03:58 – Juju describes Debbie’s life and shining personality
• 05:38 – Sarah Dorian’s enduring grief and determination
• 07:15–08:30 – Discussion of early suspects and the impact on Maurice Dixon
• 12:14 – Detailed explanation of the limitations of CODIS in the case
• 13:09 – Issuance of “John Doe” warrant to stop the statute of limitations
• 14:14–14:41 – Beth’s account of the assault and quick-thinking actions
• 16:18 – Beth’s vivid description of confronting her attacker
• 17:19 – Beth’s current life and recovery
• 20:28–21:47 – The shift to forensic genealogy and major break in the case
• 22:06 – The revelation of Nikki Stain’s identity and background
• 23:01–23:22 – Police interrogation of Nikki Stain
• 24:23 – How police obtained and matched Stain’s DNA
• 26:03 – Prosecutorial insistence on including sexual assault counts
• 28:00 – Sarah Dorian delivers an emotional victim impact statement

---

Conclusion & Takeaways

This episode underscores the devastating ripple effects of violent crime—the promise lost, the enduring suffering of families, and the critical importance of perseverance and advocacy. It spotlights the evolution of forensic technology (especially genetic genealogy), the pitfalls of early criminal profiling, and the vital role survivor courage plays in the pursuit of justice. The humanity, resilience, and relentless determination on display—by survivors, loved ones, and investigators—are central to the story’s resolution.

---

For further details and to experience the full depth of the investigation, listeners are encouraged to watch the corresponding 20/20 episode “I’m Going To Get You.”

Transcript

[A]

Shopping is hard, right? But I found a better way. Stitch fix online Personal styling makes it easy. I just give my stylist my size, style and budget preferences. I order boxes when I want and how I want. No subscription required. And he sends just for me, pieces plus outfit recommendations and styling tips. I keep what works and send back the rest. It's so easy. Make style easy. Get started [e-mail] Spotify. That's stitchfix.com Spotify.

[B]

Hi there, everybody. Deborah Roberts here and so happy that you are joining us for another episode of 20 20, the After Show. As always, you all know that we dig a little deeper into a story that some of you have already seen. And if you haven't, you're gonna want to see it after today's episode. And this one is a reflection of a recent story that we did for on 2020 called I'm going to get you. And I have to say, as a parent, this was a story to me that just felt like every parent's worst nightmare. In August of 1996, 22 year old Debbie Dorian was found bound dead on the floor of her apartment. And it was her father, Peter Dorian, who actually discovered her lifeless body when she didn't show up to their home that day. Debbie had just graduated from Fresno State University. By all accounts, kind of a shining star. She was studying economics, had dreams of becoming an audiologist following in the footsteps of her dad. But of course, her dreams were cut short by her tragic killing. It was something that law enforcement worked on for a long time. They could not track down her killer for nearly 20 years. And we're going to hear exclusively from a brave survivor who actually led them to the conclusion of this story later on. She actually had been attacked by the man, it turns out, who killed Debbie. We're gonna hear about why she finally decided to speak out. This is just a really captivating story and of course made more captivating because Juju Chang covered it. Juju, one of our correspondents who contributes so often. And you and I have been here for a very long time at ABC together doing a lot of these stories. Absolutely.

[C]

We grew up together here.

[B]

We grew up together. But you always bring such heart and such great inquisitive questions to these stories. And you know, for you and you and I have talked about this before being parents, you've got sons. I've got a son and a daughter. Almost grownups, both of us. And I think those stories really get me. They were particularly hard to cover. And I can imagine that this One probably was for you, too. A young girl who's just about to recognize her dreams.

[C]

Absolutely. And the murder victim was just that. She was on the cusp of launching into this brilliant life, and it was cut short by a serial predator who was preying on young college coeds, basically. And so it unravels in this sleepy little cow town in Fresno, as they call it. And honestly, it wasn't but for the bravery of a different co ed girl who was able to have the presence of mind to get authorities to the crime scene, that they got the DNA evidence that took 20 years to solve the puzzle. And of course, as a mother of young adults, you look at that and you're like, oh, all of that promise, lost. All of that life that was about to unfold, lost.

[B]

Well, you know, these stories are always so interesting to people, and they are very captivated by sort of the cat and mouse game, if there is one of those, or just the police investigation. And we, of course, like to honor these victims on 2020 when we're telling these stories, because it's so important. These are families who are grieving. So talk to us a little bit first before we get into the sad, tragic details of the story about Debbie Dorian. As you said, you know, a bright young student. She was president of the econ club. She's working, trying to get master's degree. She seemed to be loved by so many in her area.

[C]

She had a golden personality. I talked to some of her friends who talked about cruising down the street and listening to pop songs, and it really brings it all back. She was also really one of those, you know, life of the party type young women. If you look at old videos of her, you see her and her handsome military boyfriend, and the two of them were literally, you know, enjoying this part of their lives. And she was strong and capable and literally just starting out. But also a tantalizing clue for investigators was she was looking for a roommate. Mm, that's right.

[B]

And we're gonna talk a little bit more about that later. But talk to us a little bit about the parents who are dealing with this. I mean, this happened a long time ago, but I recently interviewed parents of a young woman who had been killed. And the pain was so palpable. Juju. I mean, I have to say, when I left them, it really haunted me. In this particular episode, Debbie's mom, Sarah, did speak with our team, but her dad, it wasn't able to.

[C]

Yeah. So don't forget, her father was the one who found her body. And as one investigator Told me, you can never unsee that. And in the early years, when there was a desperation to find her killer, and da, da, da. He was very much front and center in the media, but he has since receded. Her mother, Sarah, has quietly come forward and just sort of was determined to find justice for her daughter. So I actually went to her home in central California. We sat overlooking the ocean, and it was beautiful. And she really talked about her grief over. Over these years. And it was she who got the lead investigator to promise her not to give up on her daughter's case. And that is essentially what happened.

[B]

And oftentimes, it is a mom. It is a crusading mom. How is she coping with her pain?

[C]

You know, she says it never goes away. It just changes, shape shifts. And you can tell that her whole life was dedicated to it on her property. I walked over to the edge, and she said, see these pine trees? And they're towering pine trees. She said, I planted them the year Debbie was killed. And you can see sort of the time and the evolution. But her grief is still there.

[B]

Yeah, of course. And it will be forever. And we can never forget that. This is a story that really took a long time. I mean, not only did it happen a long time ago, it took police a long time, but our team was on this story. It was really complex trying to unravel, and we're going to talk about some of those details, but just the time to do this.

[C]

We'd been shooting on it for years, essentially. But I think for investigators, it was particularly hard because they had a DNA match, thanks to this incredibly brave Jane Doe who came forward. But that match sort of sat in the banks because they couldn't find the perpetrator based on the DNA match. And so the investigators will assure you the case never went cold because they kept looking for clues and looking for clues, but it took nearly.

[D]

Wow.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And when you talk about the technology, too, things have changed so much. Well, you mentioned that Debbie had been looking for a roommate. And so let's talk about the investigation, because she had been looking for people. She needed money, like any young person a student might. She had ads and flyers up, and they. They zeroed in on this list of people that she had talked to and immediately started seeing them as people of interest.

[C]

Absolutely. There was literally a pad of paper with a list of names. One of them was a young man named Alvin. And it was one of those, you know, obviously the investigators looking at everybody, her boyfriend, her family, everybody. But they zoomed in on this guy because he had had contact with her in the days before the murder. And he went up to them and talked to investigators, and he was a registered sex offender. The DNA from Debbie's body was compared to Alvin, and he was excluded as being the contributor to that DNA. Alvin was eliminated. Maurice Dixie sample was also submitted to see if we could exclude, and he could not be excluded. And so then they focus on his. Somebody who dropped him off, his friend named Maurice Dixon. And he became the center of a lot of intense scrutiny because at one point he said something about duct tape, which was what was used to bound her body. And so the investigators, again, more alarm bells. More alarm bells. And mind you, this is in the early days of DNA. And Maurice seemed to test positive, so the police arrested him, zeroed in on him. Exactly. And it really changed the shape of his life because ultimately he was cleared.

[B]

Right.

[C]

And Maurice, you know, is African American, did not fit the profile of the person that they said one witness said they saw near her house. And yet at the time, don't forget, this was like on the heels of the O.J. simpson verdict, on the heels of the LA riots. And so it was a very sort of difficult time in law enforcement. And so it was really shaped by that.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. The racial tension in the air. And, you know, when we look at these stories and we look back, it is so important to kind of give context to what was happening in the country. But you said that this really affected his life, and we reached out to him, but he was not, his family.

[C]

Was not, you could understand, inclined to talk about it. It really did shape his life. So that for the next 20 years, literally, the investigators were tireless. They tested 146 different people against the two DNA samples that they had, and it just. They couldn't find a match.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. And at the end, I mean, as you said, it didn't go cold, but they just made no progress. Well, Juju, you mentioned that it was going to take years, but there was a big break that would come in the case. So when we come back, we're going to hear about that brave survivor you just talked about that helped kind of put the pieces of this puzzle together. And you're going to find out what she told our team. So don't go anywhere. Stay with us.

[E]

This show is supported by Odoo. Imagine you're a business owner who has to rely on a dozen different software programs to run your company. They're expensive and complicated, and none of them are connected. And now imagine a platform that can tackle all of your business needs in one place. That platform is Odoo. Odoo has all the programs you'll ever need all connected. It's one single easy to use platform, giving you peace of mind that your business is always being taken care of from every angle. Odoo assists in accounting, marketing, inventory, hr, CRM, manufacturing and more through its user friendly interface and open source applications. If your business needs it, Odoo's got it. So stop wasting your time and money on those expensive disconnected platforms. Let Odoo harmonize your business with simple, efficient software that can handle everything for a fraction of the price. It doesn't get much better than that. So what are you waiting for? Discover how Odoo can take your business to the next level by visiting odoo.com, that's o-o o.com odoo modern management made simple.

[F]

This episode is brought to you by cars.com on cars.com you can shop over 2 million cars. That means over 2 million new car possibilities. Like making space for your growing family, becoming the type of person who takes spontaneous weekend camping trips or upgrading your commute wherever life takes you next or whoever you're looking to be. There's a car for that on cars.com visit cars.com to discover your next possibility.

[B]

Welcome back to 2020's the After Show. We are talking about our recent episode called I'm Going to Get yout. And Juju Chang was the correspondent who has spent a long time with your team on this story. Such a tragic story of a young woman whose life was cut short. And you're helping us kind of dig deeper into this episode. The horrific murder of Debbie Dorian, 22 years old when she was found dead in her apartment. There was DNA evidence. And it's so interesting because today it's so sophisticated. But we're talking about a time where it wasn't. And forensics experts had no suspect to actually tie it to. They had the evidence, but they couldn't actually pinpoint the person. And then they use the CODIS system to help try to search for other matches around the country. And we've heard about that. But break that down for us a little bit, right?

[C]

I mean, people who love true crime understand, have heard of codis. I'm sure you've done stories. It stands for the Combined DNA Index System. And so all of these DNA samples are in their database, but there was never a match because the person who murdered Debbie Dorian was not a convicted violent criminal. And so his DNA was not in the CODIS system. And so that's why for 20 years, it was unsolved, because they. Even though they had these two samples, they couldn't do it. That said, it was really a fascinating look at how they stopped the clock on the statute of limitations because. Because they had these two DNA matches and they knew the statute of limitations was running out, they issued what's called a John Doe arrest warrant. So that they knew, well, we have the DNA sample, we just don't have a name to it. And so it was an ingenious way of getting around the statute of limitations on the sexual assault.

[B]

Ultimately, you know, this thing just went on and on, which is what made it such a intriguing 2020, because there are different suspects and they're looking at different people. And there were like, four different sexual assaults that actually happened between 99 and 2002, when the period right after Debbie.

[C]

Had died and matched the MO of this particular assailant.

[B]

So they knew that there was somebody who was prob. A serial predator they were looking for. So Jane Doe number one, this woman that you talked about, the brave woman who finally actually came forward to talk. Talk to us a little bit about what that. What the moment was like for her to be able to talk about something like this.

[C]

She is a remarkable survivor, and she's one of those countless women I've interviewed who just blow my socks off because they are so brave in coming forward and sharing their stories. She also was the one, I told you, who had such presence of mind in the moment. She's the one who said to the perpetrator, I am going to get you. You are not gonna get away with this. He stopped her while she was riding her bike. He grabbed her handlebars, he pulled a gun on her. And she is.

[B]

And she still stood up to him. Exactly.

[C]

And she says, I'm gonna get you. You're not gonna get away with this. But he did leave a DNA sample on the ground during the altercation. And she was terrified, but she went straight home. And she circled around. She had the presence of mind to say, like, I don't want him to follow me home. So she rode her bike around, she got her sister. She called police immediately. They were immediately able to pinpoint the location of where it happened. And they found the DNA sample.

[B]

And they found the DNA sample.

[C]

Another young college co ed on the brink of adulthood. And all of that was really sort of changed the trajectory of her life.

[B]

Of course, it was a big, big moment for you to be able to get her to talk her Name is Beth. And what was that like, trying to get her to sit down?

[C]

It was a very lengthy process. Beth, you know, had testified in court, and all four of the women were Jane Doe number one, Jane Doe number two, Jane Doe number three and four. And they were all young women that he was preying on. One was attacked at a. At a bus stop. Another was attacked on the way home from school. A high schooler, and she was a college student. And she decided to come forward and talk to us because she felt that she wanted to put a face to face. And she, again, was incredibly impressive. But at the same time, it's so bittersweet because despite how strong and feisty and independent she was, it almost destroyed her life. And she will be the first to tell you. And she was very candid with us about the impact it had on her throughout the years.

[B]

Yeah, she was only 19 at the time, and she basically confronted this guy. She was riding her bike. She tells you, Juju, when she came face to face with him. And she recounted what happened during your interview. Let's take a listen.

[C]

You're riding your bike home from work one day.

[G]

I was about three blocks away from my house, and I saw a gentleman pull out of a street. It was 10:30 at night. There was nobody on the road. He grabbed my handlebars and had a gun.

[C]

And you saw the gun?

[G]

Yeah. Told me to get off my bike and get on my knees. He told me if I didn't, he would kill me. And I believed him. I was 19. You have a gun to your head, you do what you're told. And the whole time, all I remember saying is, I'm gonna get you. You're not gonna get away with it.

[C]

That's feisty.

[G]

Yeah.

[C]

With a gun pointed at you.

[G]

I didn't know what else to do.

[C]

Part of what impressed me about her was her emotional maturity and her transparency. For somebody that strong, that feisty, to have it make her life go so sideways, it really, to me was. I mean, I'm getting goose pimples just thinking about it. Such a salve to other survivors who feel like, why can't I just get over this?

[B]

And they also can. They're heard and they know that somebody else has experienced this and they don't feel so alone. Juju, she was 19 at the time. Now she's in her 40s. And she talked to you about low self esteem. I mean, how is she doing?

[C]

Oh, my gosh, she's doing well. She was able to testify. And what was amazing is I got to meet her comfort dog. He came to the interview. I got to pet him and he went to the courtroom with her. She has a good job. She's got a son who she talked about and she is doing well. I think this case and be able to come forward has healed a lot of the Swiss cheese of her heart. It's been remarkable to see and it was great to just meet her.

[B]

The Swiss cheese of her heart. And that probably is what it feels like all kind of holy and chopped up. Well, Juju, despite the fact that Beth feared for her life, you know, you do a great job of describing how she was able to not only go to police, but they were able to do a DNA test. It was critical in finding the man who assaulted not only her, but who had killed Debbie. So when we come back, we're gonna go through the major twists and turns of this case that ultimately resulted in putting a dangerous criminal behind bars. Cars. We'll be right back.

[E]

This show is sponsored by HomeServe. Owning a home is amazing until it's not. Sometimes you're on your way out the door for a big trip you've been excited about for months when suddenly a pipe bursts. All of a sudden, that long awaited vacation has to wait until you can find a repair company in your budget. Repairs can sneak up on you and finding the right professional to do the job at a price you can afford isn't easy. That's where HomeServe comes in. For over 20 years, HomeServe has been helping homeowners get repairs fast with a range of convenient plans that offer a variety of coverage. Just choose a plan for your needs and budget and when you find something on your plan goes wrong, just call their 24.7hotline to start the repair process. With 4.5 million customers and an A rating from the Better Business Bureau, they're the real deal. Help protect your home systems and your wallet with HomeServe against covered repairs. Plans start at just $4.99 a month. Go to HomeServe.com to find a plan that's right for you. That's HomeServe.com not available everywhere. Most plans range between $4.99 to $11.99 a month. Your first year terms apply on covered repairs.

[B]

Welcome back to 2020 the After show and I'm sitting with Juju Chang, my colleague and our great correspondent here from 2020 who is helping us look deeper into this report that we just recently had on I'm going of 22 year old Debbie Dorian, a young woman who was found murdered in her apartment. Police weren't able to solve it for nearly 20 years. The break in the case came not only when a young woman who had also been assaulted stepped forward, but because of a technique, a DNA technique, forensic genetic genealogy. After another case in Visalia was solved, the Golden State Killer. We all remember the Golden State Killer case that had an impact here. Talk to us a little bit about that, how it all worked, because so much was being revealed to police over the years once the DNA technology improved. And then this Golden State Killer case had a big impact on a lot.

[C]

Absolutely. I mean, it was a fascinating DNA chain of events. Right. I mean, obviously, when Debbie Dorian is killed, they find a DNA sample there of the murderer. Then a couple years later in Visalia, there's a string of sexual assaults. And that DNA that was collected from Jane Doe number one, from Beth, became the case to case match. And that is what kept the case hot, because, as investigators said, they never gave up. They ran 146 samples. They were, you know, trying to solve the case. Once they did that, they did the John Doe warrant, which put an end to the statute of limitations. But then came, after years and years and years, something as you referred to as the genetic genealogy investigation. And what that does, it allows investigators, like in the Golden State Killer trial, they are able to look at DNA samples beyond CODIS and look at the family tree of people who have uploaded DNA samples and said, okay, you can use my DNA sample for law enforcement. And bingo. They were able to, within days, compile a family tree based on the genetic samples and find who was living in this area, who matches this description, who matches this age. Bingo. We think we have our man.

[B]

And that man was somebody by the name of Nikki Stain.

[C]

That's right.

[B]

All right, so let's talk about him, because at the time of his arrest, he was 52 years old. I mean, this. This crime had happened a long time ago. He was a married man, a father of two, active in the pta, somebody nobody would have ever tied to something like this.

[C]

And he was a serial predator. And what this case shows is what we see a lot in true crime, right? Which is monsters among us, people who are literally hiding in plain sight that you would walk by in the mall and not necessarily take issue. Nikki Stain was that guy, and he was managing a restaurant in a local mall. He had been working, you know, traveling a bit, and he was in the vicinity, not just in Visalia when the sexual assaults happened, but in Fresno when.

[B]

Debbie Dorian was murdered in the Piece. You talk about the fact that he was working at this mall and police actually approached him during his shift, questioned him about his victims, and here's what happened. Let's take a listen.

[D]

I don't see how we're going to be able to talk to Morgan County. We went to his workplace asking for him. Hi. Is Mr. Stane in?

[C]

Mr. Stane in?

[G]

Yes.

[D]

Hi. Hi, Mr. Sting. My name is Vince Zavala. Hi, Vince. Bob Stodis. Hi, Bob. We're doing some grunt work here. We're looking into a matter that happened a while ago. Take five minutes, that's fine. We begin to ask them some questions. Have you ever seen that girl? Nope. Nope. You've never committed any violence against her? No, I haven't.

[G]

Anything.

[D]

I don't. I don't know her, so I wouldn't know how to.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

So have you never committed violence against anybody? No. No violence against anybody.

[C]

But Vince hasn't waited this long and come this far to take no for an answer.

[D]

Her name was Debbie Dorian. She was found murdered. You didn't kill her, did you?

[E]

No.

[D]

No.

[C]

Nikki Stain denied knowing Debbie.

[D]

During our conversation with Nikki Stain, I told him. I said, look, we've been asking everybody we talked to if they would voluntarily give us an oral swab to compare to evidence that's at the scene. But if you haven't been there, I mean, you know, it's just kind of a mundane thing. Yeah, it sounds like. I don't know. That sounds like. I don't know if I want to do that juju.

[B]

Let's talk about his response to police. He was pretty blase. He rejected a DNA test. And this is a man who, at that point, it pretty much appeared that he had, as you said, been a serial predator.

[C]

Nikki Stain was a very complicated perpetrator for sure. And what we found, I mean, the lead investigator, Vince Zavala, the one who vowed to Debbie's mom that he would not give up on the case. Before they arrest him, they have to get a fresh DNA sample just to sort of confirm what this old sample suggested. And he wouldn't, you know, they didn't know how to get it, so they actually did the classic police detective work, a dumpster dive. And they were able to get his trash and find DNA off of stuff he had discarded. We think a razor is where they found the DNA match, which happens in.

[B]

So many of these cases we cover. There were some strange things around this guy.

[C]

He had this kind of fantasy life. And what they found, and I've seen images off of this. Like, you know how people have a fake account. It was a fake Facebook. And instead of Nikki Stain, he called himself Nikki Steele. And he had images of himself with women and going out clubbing or whatever. It was definitely a kind of a Walter Mitty kind of Persona that he had about himself.

[B]

Stain would later plead guilty to 12 felony counts, including murder, multiple sexual assaults. It was a deal that would spare him the death penalty.

[C]

Yes. But what the prosecutors felt very strongly about, and this was on behalf of Jane Doe, our brave survivor, Beth, they didn't want him to not be charged with the sexual assaults. That was what the defense asked for. Okay, we'll plead to the murder, but we don't want to do sexual assault. And they felt that it was because when you're in prison for sexual assault, you're seen differently inside. Do you know what I mean?

[B]

You're a target.

[C]

But the prosecutor said no, Beth, Jane Doe Number 1, 2, 3, and 4 deserve their crime, to be on the record and for him to serve time for that crime. So they felt very strongly that they didn't go.

[B]

At the end of the day, that was what it was all about. But they also spared her family having to go through a trial. Absolutely. Having him plead guilty. Juju, what you brought to light in the story is that, you know, as you said, this was a case that didn't really go cold. They just couldn't find the perpetrator for a long time. But the police wouldn't give up. You talk to a detective, this was very important to them that they didn't give up on this case.

[C]

I mean, you talk about Hart, but Vince Zavala is one of those people I fall in love with in these stories. He worked on farms as a young man and he literally retired to go be a pomegranate farmer. And, you know, you talked about the producers who've done the work. Our senior producer, Sean Dooley, went shooting in this misty pomegranate farm, and it looked like something out of Cecil B. Dementi.

[B]

That is Sean.

[C]

That is Sean.

[B]

Exactly.

[C]

But it really showed his heart. He could have just literally ridden off in the sunset on his tractor, having solved all these cases and been a man of law, but this one struck in his craw, too. And this one was one that he just did not want to give up on. And so when I see that level of determination and you see a tough guy, a 40 year veteran of law enforcement, get choked up talking about arresting this man and seeing him finally, after 20 years being put behind bars, I mean, that's what. That's what makes true crime really gratifying.

[B]

And also, you're so good at your job. People get choked up when they talk to you, Juju, because you get them to just really go deep.

[C]

He's a sweetheart.

[B]

Nicky Stain's gonna spend the rest of his life in prison. To some degree, this was, I guess, a level of justice for Debbie Dorian's family. But, you know, could not have been easy, though. Even though they did get this, you know, they had to see him. They had to know and live again what happened to their daughter.

[C]

Yeah, it was, you know, spending time with Sarah, you could see that this is something that you just, you know, you talk about victim's impact. It's just. It cannot be fully described. And yet Sarah tried. She gave a victim's impact statement, and kind of like that book, the Lovely Bones, she spoke in her daughter's voice in the courtroom. It was. You could hear a pin drop, and it was so dramatic. And basically, she talked about, I will never get married. I will never have children. I will never have the life that you took from me, essentially. And, you know, the only sort of inspiring part about it is that it was Beth's bravery, Jane Doe number one, that helped keep investigators on the scent. It was Sarah who kept crusading for her daughter, and it was Vince who just would not give up. Give up.

[B]

Yeah, the humanity, Juju, you really brought it all home to us in this story. I mean, well done. Well done.

[C]

It's all our producers, so many people. I mean, now I'm gonna get in trouble if I start listening.

[B]

Yeah, don't start listening. Don't start listening. Anybody but you, but you. You brought it. At the end of the day, you brought it. And, Juju, thanks so much for coming. And as always, it's always great. You and I can just talk all day.

[C]

Yeah, let's just chat.

[B]

Yeah, we can.

[E]

We can.

[B]

We kind of have a limit on this podcast, but we will do this again. I know you and I will do this again.

[C]

All right.

[B]

My dear Juju Chang, always doing such great reporting. Well, that does it for us on 20 20, the After Show. We always appreciate your coming by and hanging out with us and tuning in. Of course, you know, you can catch our latest episodes on Friday night on abc. And of course, you can stream episodes like this one anytime on Disney plus and on Hulu. See you soon.

[H]

Introducing Family freedom from T Mobile. We'll pay off four phones up to $3200 and give you four free phones all on America's largest 5G network. Visit t mobile.com family freedom.

[B]

Up to.

[H]

800 per line via virtual prepaid card typically takes 15 days. Free phone via 24 monthly bill credits with finance agreement. Example Apple iPhone 16128 gigs 829.99 eligible trade in example iPhone 11 Pro for well qualified credits and imbalance due if you pay off early or cancel. Contact us.

[I]

Audiences and top critics are celebrating Rental Family is the perfect feel good movie of the year.

[D]

What do you need me for?

[I]

We need a talking white guy. Academy Award winner Brendan Fraser. The delivers a masterful performance.

[E]

This girl needs a father.

[B]

I hate you.

[D]

She hates me.

[I]

It's what being a parent is in this tender and funny film about the importance of connection.

[D]

This is amazing.

[C]

It's cool, but it's fake. Sometimes it's okay to pretend.

[I]

Rental Family only in theaters Friday. Rated PG13 may be inappropriate for children under 13.