20/20: The After Show — Matt Murphy
Host: Debra Roberts (ABC News)
Guest: Matt Murphy (ABC News Legal Contributor, Former Orange County Prosecutor)
Date: August 25, 2025
Overview
In this episode of the 20/20 After Show, host Debra Roberts sits down for an in-depth conversation with Matt Murphy, a former Orange County, California prosecutor with 26 years' experience specializing in homicide and high-profile criminal cases. Now an ABC News legal contributor, Murphy discusses his journey through the justice system, insights into notorious true crime cases, the evolution of criminal investigations, his transition to legal analysis and authorship, and why true crime stories resonate with audiences.
Matt Murphy: From Prosecutor to Legal Analyst
Early Career and Motivation
- No intention to become a lawyer: Murphy “stumbled into law school” (01:33).
- Drawn to prosecution: By the end of his first day clerking at the Orange County DA’s office, Murphy was "hooked" by the people and the gritty environment of law enforcement (01:48–02:42).
- Motivation: The evolving challenge of each case and personal connections formed with victims’ families drove his career:
“You want to help those families, and then…on a tough case, on a cold case…you get that hug from the mom after five years of fighting…” —Matt Murphy (03:51)
The Emotional Toll of Homicide Work
- Victim advocacy: Murphy routinely met with victims’ families after murder cases and provided personal contact, noting,
“It becomes almost an addiction. You want to help those families.” (03:51)
- Most memorable cases:
- Tom and Jackie Hawks: Tied to their anchor and thrown overboard.
- William McLaughlin: Murdered by his girlfriend and her boyfriend.
- Golden State Killer & Dirty John: “High-profile cases stick with you. All of them do, really.” (05:05)
Humanizing the Victims
- Murphy emphasizes the importance of remembering the humanity behind each case, sharing a story of two brothers from Georgia, who “reminded me that, you know, they’re all human beings, people who love them…” (05:33–06:37).
Inside the Investigative Process
Small Evidence, Big Breaks
- Vertical prosecution in Orange County: Prosecutors go to crime scenes and oversee cases from the beginning, unlike most jurisdictions (07:19).
- Importance of detail: “It really is, it can be one tiny little thing…Everything is closing argument backwards.” (07:19)
- Kathy Torres Case Example: A cold case where drops of blood on the trunk lid proved the victim was alive when placed in the trunk — a critical detail that changed the case outcome (08:21–09:40).
Gendered Perspectives
- Debra notes how women detectives spotted small details overlooked by men (earrings in a Florida case) (09:40–10:10).
The Moment to Stay in Prosecution
- Murphy speaks of the “moment” he committed to staying in prosecution:
“This little boy…said, ‘I’m prepared to be brave.’…That was probably the moment…No, I’m gonna stay.” (10:27–12:35)
Notorious Cases and Legal Lessons
Hossein Nayeri Case: “Catch Me if You Can”
[15:22–19:58]
- Case context: Ruthless marijuana industry, legitimate and criminal elements, all-cash business breeds violence.
- International manhunt: Police, with Nayeri’s ex-wife, lured him out of Iran (which doesn’t extradite), leading to his arrest in Prague after he believed he was rekindling their relationship.
- Memorable moment:
“He honestly believed that he was going to reconcile this relationship. And instead, he gets off the plane in Prague and gets stripped, arrested, cavity searched, and thrown in prison.” —Matt Murphy (19:21)
Blaze Bernstein Case: “The Last Text”
[21:07–26:07]
- Family’s role: Blaze’s family—especially his tech-savvy 14-year-old sister—helped investigators find critical evidence via Snapchat (22:21–23:55).
- Notable family tenacity:
“Families oftentimes will not give up until they can actually find some justice.” —Debra Roberts (23:55)
- Cold cases: Persistence of families led to evidence and arrests years later.
“[Victims’ families] would bring cookies to the Newport Beach Police Department. Just don’t forget about my dad.” —Matt Murphy (24:04)
Forensics and Technology
- Impact of tech on investigation:
“People communicate via text messages…we have cell phone pings…most murderers, it’s their first rodeo…People bring their cell phones with them when they commit murder." —Matt Murphy (24:54)
Justice for All: Process and Fairness
- Balancing justice:
“You have to make sure that the defendant is being treated fairly, too…The last thing you want to do is hold somebody’s feet to the fire and create an appellate issue.” —Matt Murphy (26:25)
Transition to Analysis, Writing, and Reflections
From Prosecuting to Educating
[28:27–32:52]
- Still passionate about prosecution:
"I miss this job every day. I miss my call outs. I miss my cops.” —Matt Murphy (28:54)
- Current legal work: Now sometimes practices defense law—"seeing it from a different perspective"—while educating the public through ABC (29:19–31:13).
- Highlighting unsung heroes:
“Some of the best human beings I’ve met in my life…forensic scientists…detectives…jurors…judges.” —Matt Murphy (29:45)
The Heart of the Job
- On advocacy:
“You get to almost speak for the people that can’t speak for themselves…you get to speak for the victim that can’t speak for themselves anymore.” —Matt Murphy (32:12)
- Profound mentor advice:
“The jury can always see the soul of your victim reflected in the eyes of those who love them.” —Lou Rosenblum, quoted by Murphy (32:11)
Why We’re Drawn to True Crime
The Human Need for Justice
[33:06–35:11]
- Enduring motives:
“The motives to commit murder are the same that they’ve been for 200,000 years — greed, jealousy, anger…almost like the biblical.” —Matt Murphy (33:06)
- The value of seeing justice served:
“We hear so much about what’s bad about [the system], but a lot of times that plane lands safely…It really does kind of enforce what’s good about the system.” —Matt Murphy (33:53)
- Also important: righting wrongful prosecutions.
- Audience impact:
"There's almost a participation. When people watch these things and they get smarter, they get better. And I think the world is just a little better for it." —Matt Murphy (35:11)
Memorable Quotes & Moments
- On the emotional connection to families:
“Something about those moms. And on a tough case, on a cold case…you get that hug from the mom after five years of fighting.” —Matt Murphy (03:51)
- On small details cracking a case:
“That by itself is the type of thing you’d miss in a report. But when you’ve been to enough scenes…that means her heart was still beating when she went into the trunk.” —Matt Murphy (08:21)
- On true crime’s audience:
“There is a fundamental human need for justice. And I think people see reflections of their own lives…it’s sort of a bitter happy ending. But I think people, they need to see that.” —Matt Murphy (33:06, 33:53)
- On why he stayed in prosecution:
“This little boy…said ‘I’m prepared to be brave.’…That was probably the moment…No, I’m gonna stay.” —Matt Murphy (12:27)
- Mentor’s wisdom:
“The jury can always see the soul of your victim reflected in the eyes of those who love them.” —Matt Murphy (32:11)
Key Timestamps
- 01:33: Murphy stumbles into prosecution; hooked by work and environment.
- 03:51: The emotional payoff: helping and connecting with victims’ families.
- 05:05: High-profile and cold case examples.
- 07:19: Orange County’s unique “vertical” prosecution system and importance of crime scene evidence.
- 08:21: Kathy Torres case — blood evidence explained.
- 10:27: The child’s bravery — Murphy’s defining moment to remain a prosecutor.
- 15:22: Hossein Nayeri case — international manhunt and dramatic sting.
- 22:21: Bernstein case — the family’s hands-on digital sleuthing.
- 24:54: Impact of modern technology in solving cases.
- 26:25: The importance of balancing justice for victims and fairness for defendants.
- 28:54: Murphy on missing prosecution, transition to analysis and writing.
- 32:11: Mentor’s advice: “The jury can always see the soul of your victim reflected in the eyes of those who love them.”
- 33:06: Murphy’s reflection on the audience’s fascination with true crime.
Final Thoughts
Matt Murphy’s candid and passionate insights offer a rare window into the emotional and procedural realities of prosecuting homicide, the power of minute details, the pivotal role of victims’ families, and the enduring pull of true crime stories for modern audiences. Through his reflections, Murphy makes clear the stakes, humanity, and complexity underlying every case covered by 20/20.