The After Show: Murder She Wrote: The Kouri Richins Trial

Summary

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20/20: The After Show

Episode: "Murder She Wrote: The Kouri Richins Trial"
Date: March 23, 2026
Host: Debra Roberts
Contributors: Brian Buckmire (ABC Legal Analyst), Dr. Stephanie Widmer (ER Physician & Toxicologist), Testimony Audio

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Episode Overview

In this gripping After Show episode, the 20/20 team dissects the sensational case of Kouri Richins—a Utah real estate agent, children’s author, and, ultimately, convicted murderer. The episode unpacks Richins’ rise and fall: from devoted wife and mother to the woman accused and convicted of poisoning her husband, Eric Richins, with a cocktail laced with fentanyl. Host Debra Roberts and legal analyst Brian Buckmire review the jaw-dropping layers of this case—including the shocking details, courtroom drama, and aftermath for those left behind. Dr. Stephanie Widmer joins later to explain the deadly nature of fentanyl and what happened biologically in Eric’s final moments.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Background of Eric and Kouri Richins

[04:43]

• Kouri and Eric meet when Kouri (then Darden) is a cash register assistant at Home Depot; Eric is launching his masonry business.
• Contrasting backgrounds highlighted: Kouri from a modest upbringing, Eric from “a family of cattle ranchers.”
• They marry, have three sons, and cultivate an image of a happy, successful family.
• Outwardly “like a Hallmark movie” ([05:46]), but cracks emerge with financial strain and marital strife.

2. The Events Leading To Eric's Death

• Premeditation & Motive:
  • Kouri was “bad with money.” There was marital tension, a prenup, and evidence she wanted to start a new life with another man, Josh Grossman ([06:12]).
  • Prosecutors allege her motive is both love (the affair) and money (insurance fraud).
• First Attempt—Valentine’s Day Incident ([07:02]):
  • Weeks before Eric’s death, he falls ill after eating a sandwich Kouri brings him.
  • Texts reveal Eric told friends, “I think my wife might have tried to kill me.”

    “He says he takes his son’s EpiPen, hits him in his leg, takes a gulp of like some allergy medication, sleeps it off, and then goes to... coaching the kids.” –Brian Buckmire [07:45]

• The Night of Eric’s Death – March 4, 2022 ([08:20]):
  • The couple celebrates Kouri’s business deal. After the kids go to bed, she makes Eric a drink. Claims she stays with a child having a nightmare and “doesn’t get up until 3am,” discovering Eric dead.

3. 911 Call and Initial Reactions

[09:13]

• Audio from 911: Kouri claims Eric isn’t breathing; operator tries to walk her through CPR.
  • “You listen to her and it’s like, this sounds weird... the franticness, the tone.” –Brian Buckmire [09:57]
  • Brian notes every person grieves differently but admits the call “sounds weird.”
• At first, Kouri is treated as a victim.
• Authorities consider accidental overdose; no trauma on Eric.

4. The Turn in the Investigation

• Toxicology finds illicit (not medical) fentanyl—starts criminal inquiry ([11:46]).
• Kouri quickly writes and promotes a children’s book about grief the following year, featuring in local media ([12:04]).
• Raising suspicion: instead of receding from view, she embraces the limelight.
• The pivotal break comes with the arrest of the family housekeeper, Carmen Lauber ([13:25]), who testifies Kouri asked her twice to acquire illegal drugs.
• The timeline:
  • March 2023: Lauber arrested and flips
  • May 2023: Kouri arrested

5. The Trial: Defense vs. Prosecution

[16:53]

• Defense Strategy ([17:40]):
  • Hinge on “reasonable doubt”—argues no direct evidence Kouri obtained or administered the drugs.
  • Claim: All evidence is circumstantial, so jury should acquit.
• “Walk the Dog” Letter Bombshell ([18:25]):
  • A secret letter found in Kouri’s jail cell, allegedly instructing her family how to testify.
  • “At the very top it says, like, ‘walk the dog, be inconspicuous’…actions that a person would do only if they are guilty.” –Brian Buckmire [18:39]
  • Kouri claims it’s part of a book manuscript.
• Portrayal of Motive ([20:06]):
  • Prosecution frames her as driven by both love (affair) and money (insurance fraud).

    “When it comes to murder, it’s usually the big three... love, money, or revenge. Here you had two of the three.” –Brian Buckmire [20:19]

6. Kouri’s Silence, Conviction, and Aftermath

[22:00]

• Kouri does not testify—Brian explains why: her defense is “I don’t know how he got poisoned,” so nothing to add, and cross-exam would be devastating.
• Jury convicts on all counts.
  • “...especially as a mother, I think that’s her realizing I’m missing my entire children’s lives.” –Brian Buckmire on Kouri’s reaction to the verdict [23:34]
• The emotional cost for close friends (notably Allie Staking), families, and especially the three children ([23:54]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Did someone write this story or was this like a real life thing?” –Brian Buckmire [04:13]
• “This is like a Hallmark movie, right?” –Brian Buckmire [05:46]
• “He says he takes his son’s EpiPen, hits him in his leg, takes a gulp of like some allergy medication, sleeps it off, and then goes to... coaching the kids.” –Brian Buckmire [07:45]
• “You listen to her and it’s like, this sounds weird. The franticness, the tone...” –Brian Buckmire on Kouri’s 911 call [09:57]
• “Only guilty people do this.” –Brian Buckmire on the jailhouse “Walk the Dog” letter [19:13]
• “Love, money or revenge. And here you had two of the three.” –Brian Buckmire on motives [20:19]
• “The betrayal part of it is big. Especially when you are alongside with the defense and you, I think not just the verdict, but you also agree with the verdict... you say, wow, I was wrong.” –Brian Buckmire [25:09]

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Forensic Analysis: Fentanyl Explained

Timestamps: [28:12] – [34:00] | Guest: Dr. Stephanie Widmer

The Science Behind the Crime

• Fentanyl is a synthetic opioid “50 times stronger than heroin and 50 to 100 times stronger than morphine.”
• “The difference between providing that sedation and death can be very, very tiny.” ([29:08])
• Street fentanyl is unregulated—makes accidental or intentional overdose far more likely.
• The lethal dose is minuscule: “Just the tip of this pencil...is considered a lethal amount. And he was given five times that amount.” –Debra Roberts [28:39]
• Mechanism: Fentanyl “binds very strong, very tightly and very quickly to... opioid receptors in the brainstem,” shutting down breathing ([30:37]).
• Narcan (naloxone) is a fast-acting opioid antidote. Dr. Widmer demonstrates its use ([31:19]).

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The Sentencing: What Comes Next?

[34:08]

• Sentencing scheduled for May.
• Expected: Victim impact statements—both cathartic for families and informative for the judge.
• Kouri may speak publicly for the first time—remorse (or lack thereof) will be significant.

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Emotional Fallout

• For Friends & Family:
  • Kouri’s former friend Allie Staking expresses anguish and disbelief ([23:54]–[24:23]):

    “I don’t know how Corey’s kids are doing... I loved Eric, and I would have never wished that for them or for him. And I loved his kids... I have no idea what I’d say to Corey. I don’t know. I’m gonna need more time to think on that one.” –Allie Staking [23:54]

• On the Nature of Betrayal:
  • “How can my friend kill her husband and then write a book about it and not think about the children... and then you have the trial and you’re like, oh, wow, I was wrong.” –Brian Buckmire [25:09]

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Important Segment Timestamps

• [04:43] – Origin story: Kouri & Eric’s backgrounds & marriage.
• [07:02] – Valentine’s Day poisoning attempt.
• [08:20] – The fatal night: Kouri’s story of Eric’s death.
• [09:13-10:00] – 911 call audio, initial reactions.
• [13:25] – Housekeeper’s arrest turns the case.
• [16:53] – Post-verdict: Defense strategy and “Walk the Dog” letter.
• [18:39] – Analysis of jailhouse letter; motive explored.
• [22:47] – Kouri’s reaction to the conviction.
• [23:54] – Testimony from Kouri’s former best friend, Allie Staking.
• [28:12] – Dr. Stephanie Widmer explains fentanyl’s effects and risks.
• [34:08] – Discussion of the upcoming sentencing.

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Tone & Style

• Authentic, Unvarnished: The hosts and guests speak candidly, with a mix of expertise, wonder, and empathy (“Did someone write this story or was this like a real life thing?”).
• Deep Empathy for Survivors: The ongoing pain for friends, family, and surviving children is foregrounded.
• Accessible Forensics: Dr. Widmer explains deadly pharmacology simply and visually (pencil analogy).

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This episode provides a comprehensive, multidimensional view of a headline-grabbing true crime case—moving from the facts of the investigation and trial to the scientific underpinnings of the murder weapon, and finally, to the lasting emotional impact for all those involved.

Transcript

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[Brian Buckmire]

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[Debra Roberts]

Hi, everybody, and welcome to 2020 the After Show. I'm Debra Roberts and as always, I'm so delighted that you are with us today to spend some time with us as we take a closer look at one of our 2020 episodes. And this one is truly, truly a jaw dropper. If you saw it, chances are you're still talking about it. And if you didn't, you're gonna hear all the details today about an episode called Murder She Wrote. The Corey Richens trial. Now this one has gained head all over the country, really probably all over the world. It grabbed a lot of attention. The story of Corey Richards, a 35 year old mom and wife from Utah who seemed to be living the good life. She had a real estate company, she volunteered in her community, and her husband Eric owned a multi million dollar masonry business. By all accounts, they were devoted parents. They had three children and everybody saw them as a kind of a young, successful, happy couple. Well, that was until tragically, on March 4, 2022, Eric was shockingly found dead after he and his wife had shared a nightcap. While an autopsy would later reveal that he died from a fentanyl overdose with five times the lethal limit in his system. That's right, five times. His family was in deep grief. And interestingly, a year after Eric's death, Corey Rychins published a children's book about grief, trying to help her sons cope with the loss of their father. She even appeared on a local television show.

[Dr. Stephanie Widmer]

We got an email, wrote into the station. It was Corey saying that she had just written what she believed to be was the first book for kids about coping with grief and that she would love the chance to share that on Good Things Utah. My kids and I kind of wrote this book on the different emotions and grieving processes that we've experienced last year and to make sense and process, I'm sure. Yes, exactly. Exactly.

[Debra Roberts]

So she seemed to be moving forward in her life. And then a breathtaking shocker a month after her media Promotion. Corey is arrested, accused of poisoning her husband's drink and charged with his murder. I mean, it was truly like something out of a TV show. This story was one that people were talking about everywhere. And of course we're still talking about it after we aired it on 2020. So to help us peel back the layers of this unbelievable story, we are turning to our ABC News legal analyst, Brian Buckmire, who reported this piece for 2020 and included some exclusive interviews with Cory's family, a former best friend, and all kinds of clips that you're gonna hear today that you didn't hear about in that episode. Brian is bringing us some new details from ins, which is something he does best because you are a lawyer in addition to being a legal analyst for us. Brian, good to see you.

[Brian Buckmire]

Always a pleasure. Thanks for having me.

[Debra Roberts]

Yeah, yeah, always a pleasure. Well, you and I always get to dive into these stories and I think I saw on your social media where you said you've covered a lot of strange, unusual, you know, jaw dropping stories, but this one ranks up there. How so?

[Brian Buckmire]

Absolutely. Utah always gives us a lot of gems. Right. If you're thinking about the social media moms who were arrested and convicted some years ago. Now this one and Utah is good in the sense of we get cameras in the court so we get to see a lot. But I don't think we've ever thought about, saw, conceptualized, think we would ever see a story that involved the death of a father and the death of a husband and then a children's book that followed it and how long it took for the arrest, and then add an affair, add in some insurance fraud. Like it just had all of the elements. It's like, did someone write this story or was this like a real life thing?

[Debra Roberts]

Because you wouldn't believe it if somebody had written it. You'd think this has to be fiction.

[Brian Buckmire]

Yeah.

[Debra Roberts]

And that's what I think was so captivating, I think for so many of us. And the conclusion actually just happened in this story. And still a little more to come. But before we get to that and get to the courtroom, let's go back to the beginning and understand a little bit more about this couple.

[Brian Buckmire]

Yeah. So Corey Richards, I think it would be Cory Darden at that time. When you hear maiden name, she's a cash register assistant or cashier at Home Depot. He is starting this soon to be successful masonry business. We found out during the trial that he co owns the business. I think he is worth $2.6 million, so doing fairly well. Right Meets this beautiful young lady. They hit it off. Years later, they end up having three sons. And by all intents and purposes, at least from the outside looking in, looks like they're doing fairly well. His background is a little bit different than hers. Right. She comes from more humble beginnings, as the prosecutor described it. He comes from a family of cattle ranchers, but they get married and it seems to work out. His business blows up. Three children. She decides to get into flipping houses and seems to be doing successful in some regards, at least in terms of types of property that she's able to acquire and then flip. But clearly we hear about the debts and things of that nature. He is described as an outdoorsy guy. He's coaching his sons basketball and baseball and soccer team. From the outside in, it's like, hey, this is like a Hallmark movie, right?

[Debra Roberts]

Yeah, yeah. They're making it. They're making it. And of course, this is 2020, so we know there's going to be an end to that making it exactly scenario. So folks think that they're doing pretty well, but clearly behind closed doors, things aren't going so well. And we would learn more about that later on when this goes to a trial. But before his death, they were clearly having some ups and downs in that relationship. And then she was also sneakily doing some things in that relationship as well.

[Brian Buckmire]

Because the heart of this all close to the prosecution, is that she was bad with the money. The theory the prosecution had was he was killed because she wanted to start a new life with this Josh Grossman, her param. And that the way that their prenup operated, because again, going back to how they come from very different backgrounds, there's a prenup before they got married that she knew that she had to get out of this relationship in a certain way to be able to keep the money and keep the kids and keep this new boyfriend of hers.

[Debra Roberts]

So what was interesting. And there you hit on a number of things there, and some of those we want to get to later because a lot of this would be revealed in the trial and in the court case. But before all of this happened and before he is killed, there's an incident that happens just a few weeks before he actually dies. He becomes ill. And there's a little hint there later on that he thought something was going on with her.

[Brian Buckmire]

Yeah. Well, so with most of her homicide cases, you'll see the person is charged with homicide, like a murder, and then also attempted murder, because it's like a lesser included. That's not the case here. Cause here she tried to kill him on Valentine's Day, and then two weeks

[Debra Roberts]

later, she actually killed him on Valentine's Day.

[Brian Buckmire]

Yeah. And so the way the story goes out is that she went out to go get a sandwich for him. And here he thinks, this is my loving wife. Like she's, she's going off selling homes and making money, but she thought about me. On Valentine's Day, he takes a single bite, according to some text messages we learned in the trial, feels ill. And I think like most fathers and probably most parents who've got three kids and then they got to run out, ain't nobody got no time to be sick.

[Debra Roberts]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, Right. So you got to power through it.

[Brian Buckmire]

Yeah. So he says he takes his son's EpiPen, hits him in his leg, takes a gulp of like some allergy medication, sleeps it off, and then goes to, I think, like coaching the kids or something with the kids. Wow. But in the text message, we hear him texting some of his friends, saying, hey, you almost lost me there. I think my wife might have tried to kill me. And it's those text messages that the prosecution used to say, hey, something happened here. They also use messages, and we'll talk about this later, about her quote, unquote drug dealer and how another amount of drugs were purchased between the Valentine's Day and the second drugging where she was asking for some stronger stuff.

[Debra Roberts]

Then a couple of weeks later, they're celebrating something or another, she makes them a round of cocktails. On March 4, 2022, everything changes.

[Brian Buckmire]

Yeah. So the way the story goes is that they came home, they were celebrating both of their success, namely hers as well. She's about to flip a major property. Right. She was supposed to come into a lot of money, and they're supposed to celebrate. Well, if you have kids at home, you understand how celebrating works for parents. You got to have the wait for the kids to go to sleep, and then you can have your cocktail afterwards. Yeah, I got a three year old. I'm still living it. But that's the story that one of the kids is having a nightmare. She makes him a drink. She goes into the child's bedroom and stays with him, but she doesn't get up until 3am in the morning. And that's when, according to her, she discovers that he had passed away.

[Debra Roberts]

And then she calls 911 and the call is kind of interesting. Let's listen.

[Brian Buckmire]

911, what's the address of the emergency?

[Dr. Stephanie Widmer]

My husband's not breathing.

[Debra Roberts]

He's cold.

[Brian Buckmire]

Okay, tell Me exactly what happened? I don't know. I can keep. I was sleeping with my kids. Okay, I can't understand you. I need you to take a deep breath. What's going on?

[Dr. Stephanie Widmer]

Okay, we're going to. Can you do cpr? You don't know?

[Debra Roberts]

I'm going to tell you how to.

[Brian Buckmire]

Are you willing to do cpr? Yeah. Okay.

[Debra Roberts]

Now, you've heard a lot of calls in court over the years. They are all very different. What did you make of this one?

[Brian Buckmire]

So, as a defense attorney, whenever I hear a 911 call or a call or a conversation with someone talking about their grief, my first mindset is, unless I know this person, I do not know how they grieve. And so for me to take my measuring stick and say, like, well, this is what I would do when I would grieve, it's kind of unfair. But there are. Even. That aside, you listen to her and it's like, this sounds weird. There are the. The franticness, the. The tone in which it is. And maybe this is like, hindsight being, excuse the pun, 2020.

[Debra Roberts]

You couldn't help it. Yeah, yeah.

[Brian Buckmire]

You could be like, okay, I can see. I can see where she's lying here. I can see where she's not. But when it first came out, you're like, okay, maybe.

[Debra Roberts]

Yeah.

[Brian Buckmire]

I mean, don't forget, for a long time she was the victim in this case.

[Debra Roberts]

Well, of course. And. And that's the way she was treated. So it sounds like this is a woman who maybe was flailing, trying to see if she could help her husband. The 911 operators trying to walk her through compressions. And, you know, they would come to the house and, you know, they would discover later on it didn't look like that had happened at the time.

[Brian Buckmire]

When they came in, they were shocked. Even see some of the body wear on camera. They're like, this is a healthy guy. He's fairly young. And you can see one of the EMTs kind of shrugging their shoulders. Be like, maybe like an aneurysm or something, like a sudden death. They were asking questions about his health, any medication he takes. She did reveal that he takes THC gummies. Don't forget, this is the state of Utah. Recreational marijuana is illegal, but medicinal is legal. And so, like, he's a Mason worker. We clearly know about the opioid epidemic. He works with his hands. Maybe he has a bad back. Maybe he was given proper drugs to take care of, and then he moved to illegal drugs to help where he could.

[Debra Roberts]

But there's no sign of trauma, blunt force trauma, anything like that.

[Brian Buckmire]

They're grasping at straws at this point.

[Debra Roberts]

The authorities are looking into this and they think it could be an accidental overdose.

[Brian Buckmire]

Fentanyl. So when the autopsy comes back and the toxicology report comes in, that's when they know you can tell whether or not the fentanyl that is in someone's system is the illegal type of fentanyl or the medicinal type of fentanyl. And when they realize it's the illegal type, that's when they start to look at this case as a criminal case.

[Debra Roberts]

Corey, actually not that long after this death, writes a book. The book is called are you with me? She talks about how she's self published this book to try to help her children make sense of the loss of their father. It's all about dealing with grief, which is kind of interesting because we don't know. But police apparently at that time are taking a second look and a deeper look at her and the death of her husband. When you look back on it and the fact that she would go out and present this book on television, what do you make of that?

[Brian Buckmire]

The only thing that can make sense to me is that she is still thinking as a mother in the sense of, okay, let's assume that she knows that she's guilty, right? Even as she's writing this book. But she's still thinking like a mother. How do I protect my children? I might have done something horrible, but I still wanna protect them from something. That's the only thing that makes sense to me. Because doing this as a way to try to push any suspicions off of you, that doesn't make any sense to me. Cause it's also not a successful tactic.

[Debra Roberts]

And you're standing in the limelight in a way. I mean, you know, the glare of the lights and you would think you would be retreating from the lights, knowing that you did something. So at what point then in this investigation? Because police are still looking into this case, Family members of Eric's are suspicious. They don't think that he died of an overdose. At what point do they start seeing Corey as a suspect?

[Brian Buckmire]

I think the biggest point in this case is when Carmen Lauber is arrested. And that is the housekeeper of the family who ultimately does testify at court that Corey was the one who approached her not once but twice to get illegal drugs. They invested. And it's. I think it was March of 2023 when she's arrested. And in about mid May of 2023, she's released on a GPS ankle monitor. And that's very coincidental because also in May of 2023, Corey Richards is arrested, is arrested. And so it's the idea of, and the defense tried to raise this as a reasonable doubt too, that the only reason why we're here is because you arrested the housekeeper. You forced her to flip by telling a lie. And you took that, and I'm using air quotes, a lie to then prosecute Corey Richards, that it came from the arrest of the housekeeper.

[Debra Roberts]

Okay, you've got us all intrigued. Don't go anywhere because there's so much more to talk about. She's arrested. And then we're gonna get to the court case. Brian is gonna take us inside that courtroom and we're gonna talk about the explosive moments that our 2020 team caught on camera the arguments from both the defense and the prosecution. This was a high profile case. So many talking about it. So you don't go anywhere. You're gonna want to hear this.

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[Debra Roberts]

hi there and welcome back to 2020, the After Show. I am sitting here with ABC News legal analyst Brian Buck, who played a huge part in Our most recent 2020 story, helping us take a look at that high profile case that centered on the murder of Eric Richins. You'll remember that he was poisoned by a lethal dose of fentanyl mixed into a cocktail. The story was the topic of our episode called Murder She Wrote, the Corey Richens Trial. And last week a Utah jury found her guilty on all five counts related to the poisoning death of her husband Eric. And our team was right there inside the courtroom during this trial. And Brian, let's start off with the difficult the defense was obviously trying to cast a lot of doubt on whether she could have potentially done this. What were they hanging their hat on?

[Brian Buckmire]

Yeah. So the defense here, there are two defense attorneys, actually. First she had private counsel and then she was given public defenders. Their main thing was embedded within the idea of proof beyond a reasonable doubt. Right. That there's reasonable doubt as to how the fentanyl one got into Corey Richardson's hands and then two got into Eric Richen's system. And there was no direct EV that could show that either she was given those drugs by one of the drug dealers or one of the people who testified against her, or two, that Eric Richards consumed that drug because of her. And so they said because you're missing that very crucial link. Everything else is circumstantial. Everything else has some sort of level of reasonable doubt and you have to acquit her.

[Debra Roberts]

And that's all a defense has to do is just like create some reasonable doubt. There was something in the Trial that was kind of interesting, a bombshell, the Walk the Dog letter. And it was found in a book that Corey had in her jail cell. Tell us a little bit about that one.

[Brian Buckmire]

Yeah. So this is a multi document kind of writing. If you were gonna ask the defense, they said, well, she's a writer, right? She's an author. She's writing a manuscript. But the prosecution was able to make the argument that at least six of those pages of that entire manuscript could come in. And the reason why I call it the Walk the Dog script is cause at the very top it says, like, walk the dog, be inconspicuous. And the prosecution uses what's called consciousness of guilt, an action that a person would do only if they are guilty and nothing. And in that document, she is writing to her mother to explain to her brother how to testify specifically about her husband, about where the fentanyl might have come, about his trips to Mexico, about some of their interactions and text messages, and kind of walking them through that, even to say if, like, my memory serves me right, or like kind of throwing in legal jargon as to how he should respond in a certain way. And the prosecution says, only guilty people do this. And that was able to be presented in front of the jury. I mean, she just explained to me that it was some fairytale book that was loosely based on what's going on. But there's a whole bunch of stuff in there that makes it very obvious that it's not true.

[Dr. Stephanie Widmer]

Corey has always maintained that the Walk the Dog letter was part of a greater manuscript.

[Debra Roberts]

The prosecution also talked about her being not only a woman from humble beginnings, but one who would stop at nothing to get what she wants. So they portrayed her as a completely different person than people sort of thought she was.

[Brian Buckmire]

Absolutely. And you'll hear this cliche over and over again. As a prosecutor, they don't have to prove motive, but they like to do so because it is. I think it's easier for people to understand. I mean, you're a storyteller, right? If you can't explain the why. I said why something is happening or why a person is doing something. Oftentimes a person might try to figure out maybe they did, maybe they didn't do it. But when it comes to murder, it's usually the big three, right? It's usually love, money, or revenge. And here you had two of the three where they are able to explore. They had the love when it came to the paramour, Josh Grossman, and they had the money when it came to the insurance Fraud. And so they use those as motivations and then say, well, this is why she really needed it. Because she didn't come from money. She wasn't from a cattle ranch family. Money was a very important thing to her, and she was looking to get that by any means necessary. One of those means murder.

[Debra Roberts]

Cory didn't testify and she didn't have to testify. We know that. You've taught us that as an attorney. And that doesn't necessarily have any bearing on whether she's guilty or not. The jury has to be told that all of this evidence is coming out, that she had plotted this, that she wanted a new life, she wanted out of this relationship with her husband. Would it have benefited her, in your view, to testify?

[Brian Buckmire]

I don't think so. And I'll say this right, you are correct. Right. And what I tell people is jurors cannot hold it against a person for not testifying. I'm not a juror, so I'm gonna do it. Right. But I also understand the mechanics of why a person does or doesn't testify as well in a case like this. I don't think it made sense for her to testify for two reasons. One, the type of defense this is. This is not a defense where she would know what happened and then can give that information to the jury. Her whole defense is, I don't know how he got poisoned. She can only testify as to how he became poisoned, how that got into his system. And if she knew the answer and it was someone else, law enforcement would have investigated that and she wouldn't be the defendant. At least the jury's gonna perceive that. Right. So she comes up with a great reason. Now the question would be like, well, why are you the defendant then? Right.

[Debra Roberts]

Right.

[Brian Buckmire]

The other reason is the what abouts. The cross examination would have been horrible because then they would have then said, well, what about when you said this? And what about when you said that? And what about this?

[Debra Roberts]

And it opens the door.

[Brian Buckmire]

Yes. And she would get crucified. A lot of people think that being cross examined by a person who is trained to do it is a comfortable thing. They can do it. But when it's your life on the line and you're being cross examined and you have to make sure that everything is perfect.

[Debra Roberts]

Yeah. No, no, it's not gonna serve you. It's not gonna serve any justice, really, to do that. Well, a jury clearly believed the prosecution's case. She was convicted. Cory was convicted. So many of us saw clips of her in court when they read that verdict, she Drops her head down. What did you make of her reaction after that? Do you think this is somebody who just could not believe that she would ever be convicted?

[Brian Buckmire]

I don't think she couldn't believe it. Because I think anyone who's gotten to that point, there's a piece of them that knows this could be it. I've done maybe about, I think, shy of a dozen, so like 10 or 11 trials, and each one of them, you find yourself holding the hand of your client, arm around the shoulder, something. Right. They're inches away from you, and you've spent this time with them, fighting for them, believing them, thinking that you can win this. I don't know what the percentages was for her.

[Debra Roberts]

Sure.

[Brian Buckmire]

She believed to some degree she might beat the top charges. She's maybe thinking, oh, maybe if they just get me for the insurance fraud, that's not that bad. If they get me for everything, I'm missing everything. And I think that head down, especially as a mother, I think that's her realizing I'm missing my entire children's lives.

[Debra Roberts]

Yeah. The sentencing will come later, but clearly she's going to be possibly gone for life. In this case, 2020, had a chance to speak with Allie Staking, who, when Corey's best friend for a long time, who was in her corner and just couldn't believe what she heard in court. And certainly this verdict, I mean, she was devastated. Let's take a look.

[Dr. Stephanie Widmer]

How do you explain that to kids

[Debra Roberts]

who.

[Dr. Stephanie Widmer]

I mean, we saw them as family. I told my kids they were family. I don't know how Corey's kids are doing. If I could say anything to Eric's family, just, it would be that I'm so sorry for their loss. I loved Eric, and I would have never wished that for them or for him. And I loved his kids. I have no idea what I'd say to Corey. I don't know. I'm gonna need more time to think on that one.

[Debra Roberts]

You know, you can't forget that those in the circle of these people are really affected by these types of cases, Brian.

[Brian Buckmire]

Absolutely. And it's not just the effect, but when the effect settles in because you have a former friend who was a friend, it seems, all the way through this trial. And then upon seeing the evidence, seeing the verdict, she is now left in a place where she's thinking, I'm just sorry for all those involved. And thinking about the children, Eric Richards and his family.

[Debra Roberts]

It's painful. It is painful to watch her endure this. And I can only imagine what others are feeling too.

[Brian Buckmire]

You think that a verdict would be like, oh, all right, everything's great now, this is better. No, but the, the wound is still there, the pain is still there.

[Debra Roberts]

Especially when there's been betrayal.

[Brian Buckmire]

The betrayal part of it is big. Especially when you are alongside with the defense and you, I think not just the verdict, but you also agree with the verdict to some degree, if not completely. And you say, wow, I was wrong. Wow, I thought, well, my friend could never do this. How can my friend kill her husband and then write a book about it and not think about the children, do all this? And then you have the trial and you're like, like, oh, wow, I was, I was wrong.

[Debra Roberts]

And you're confronted by the truth.

[Brian Buckmire]

Yeah.

[Debra Roberts]

Well, as we talked about earlier, an autopsy toxicology report did reveal that Eric died from fentanyl poisoning. And it's sort of interesting to think about because I don't really know that much about fentanyl. We've all heard about it in the overdoses and so forth. But I've got a pencil here and if you take a look at this pencil and you think about just the tip of this pencil, the size here is considered a lethal amount. And he was given five times that amount. Five times. So we want to learn a little bit more about that, what it means to the system and how it affects you. So when we come back, we're going to talk to a toxicologist to explain what this all means. So don't go anywhere. This show is sponsored by Bombas. If people are asking you if you're still working on your New Year's resolutions, well, here's a new one to add to your list. Get more comfortable. And you can do that with Bombas. Bombas makes everyday. Go to items that bring serious comfort, like luxurious Sunday slippers that feel like you're walking on clouds, sweat wicking sports socks tailored to any sport or activity you can come up with. And premium everyday T shirts that are flexible, breathable and buttery soft. And your feet will love wearing the sports socks to the gym or lounging in your Sunday slippers at home on a rainy day. And there's an added bonus. For every item you purchase, an essential clothing item is donated to someone facing housing insecurity. That's one purchased, one donated with over 150 million donations and counting. Head over to bombas.com 20 and use code 20T W E N T Y for 20% off your first purchase. That's B O M B A S dot com 20 and the code 20 Y at checkout. Welcome back, everybody, to 20 20, the After Show. I am sitting here with Brian Buckmire, our ABC News legal analyst who was a part of Our most recent 2020 episode. Murder she Wrote centers around the shocking story of Corey Richards, who was found guilty of killing her husband by mixing a fatal amount of fentanyl in his drink just hours before he went to sleep. And of course, he never woke up. Well, many of us have heard this drug, fentanyl, mentioned so much over the years, but I for one, don't even really know how it works. And you might not either. So joining us is now emergency room physician and toxicologist, Dr. Stephanie Widmer. Thanks so much for joining us.

[Dr. Stephanie Widmer]

Thank you for having me.

[Debra Roberts]

I talked about having this little pencil. We used this as a prop to talk about a little bit of fentanyl and how it can do a lot of damage. And then having so much more of this, which is what happened in this case. Educate us a little bit. We know that there's so many deaths in this country, it's the leading cause, I guess, of opioid deaths in this country. Tell us a little bit about it.

[Dr. Stephanie Widmer]

Sure. So fentanyl is a synthetic opioid. Synthetic, meaning it is man made, it's synthesized in a lab, and it is incredibly potent. So to put it into context, when you compare it to other drugs in its class, other opioids, it is 50 times stronger than heroin and 50 to 100 times stronger than morphine. So very, very potent. The difference between, you know, sedating someone and taking away their respiratory drive is very, very small. We do use fentanyl in the medical setting.

[Debra Roberts]

Well, that's what I wanted to know because Brian talked about legal doses of it and lethal and illegal doses of it. So tell us how it's used.

[Dr. Stephanie Widmer]

So we use it in the medical setting for pain and sedation, but we use it in very small controlled doses. And like I just said, the difference between providing that sedation and death can be very, very tiny. A lot of the drugs that we use in the hospital or in the medical field are dosed on the order of milligrams and sometimes grams. And just to put in perspective, fentanyl is dosed on the order of micrograms. So 1 milligram is 1000 micrograms. So really small numbers here. And you picked up the pencil before, that's really a great visual. But just to put some numbers behind it, I mean, we're really dealing with very small dose and, you know, it's very well regulated. In the hospital setting. But when you're out on the street, there's essentially zero regulation, zero quality control.

[Debra Roberts]

When you say it's used in that setting and in a hospital setting and people get hooked on it, ultimately, it's obviously a pain medication, so there's certainly

[Dr. Stephanie Widmer]

a high that comes with it, and it's so, so potent that that's why it's so desirable to many people. But again, the difference between getting high and. And death is it's razor thin. So really, the margin for error is incredibly tiny here.

[Debra Roberts]

What would have happened to Eric when he got that much fentanyl in a drink? And she says she came out and he was passed out and he was gone. What would have happened to his body with that amount of fentanyl in his system?

[Dr. Stephanie Widmer]

So when we talk about potency, the fentanyl binds to opioid receptors in the brainstem, and fentanyl binds very strong, very tightly and very quickly to these opioid receptors in the brainstem. And when enough of those receptors are occupied, that's when breathing and respiratory drive starts to shut down. So people don't die from, you know, being too high or being too sleepy. Fentanyl quite literally slows a person's breathing until it stops completely.

[Debra Roberts]

So that's how you know somebody has possibly overdosed when they are not breathing and they've suddenly just succumbed to it. We've heard about Narcan over the years. It's available over the counter. Tell us a little bit about it. I think you have something here we can even take a look at.

[Dr. Stephanie Widmer]

Yes, we have some Narcan here. So if you're concerned that someone has overdosed, you want to check to make sure whether or not they're responsive. And there are certain things to look for with a fentanyl overdose, or any opioid, for that matter. We call it an opioid toxidrome, an opioid toxic syndrome. So people will come in, they can look very sleepy, they can have slurred speech. Very often you'll hear the term pinpoint pupils. People's pupils become very constricted, small to the size of, like, a pin and at. As opioid toxicity progresses, their breathing can become very slow and shallow. You can hear choking noises, gurgling sounds, and when, you know, the breathing comes very close to a stop, you can see their skin turn kind of gray and their fingers turn blue because of a lack of oxygen. So if you are ever concerned that somebody has potentially overdosed on opioids, you check to see if they're responding. If they're not responding, call for help. Call 911. We all have cell phones. Put the phone on speaker. 9, 1, 1. Lay the person on their back. And if you have access to Narcan or Naloxone. Narcan is the brand name. If you have access to Narcan, this is what it looks like, but you're going to essentially spray it in their nostril. It comes in a 4 milligram dose, and there's one dose here. So don't kind of push on the plunger until you're ready to use it, because it's one and done. Unless you have more, of course. Naloxone is the reversal agent for opioid toxicity. It reverses an opioid overdose. It basically knocks fentanyl off of those opioid receptors and restores the drive to breathe again.

[Debra Roberts]

Wow. So this has saved a lot of lives over the years, and we've heard about people who have overdosed. One of the things that came out in trial was that the 911 operator suggested that she tried chest compressions and so forth. And later they felt that that had not been applied, it had not happened. Does that make any difference if somebody is trying chest compressions?

[Dr. Stephanie Widmer]

That's a really great point. So naloxone, like you said, is amazing. It saves lives. But if someone does not have a pulse, that's where CPR comes first. You want cpr, you're quite literally pumping the person's heart inside of their body. So if somebody does not have a pulse, if their heart is not pumping, it's essential before you even reach for the naloxone to start cpr.

[Debra Roberts]

But that's almost like a spray, as you said, a nostril spray. That's interesting. I've never had an opportunity to see that before.

[Dr. Stephanie Widmer]

So this. And now naloxone is sold over the counter. So it's very easily accessible nowadays. But it is. It comes in a nasal spray. There's the nozzle here, and you have the plunger. And it's just. It's almost kind of inherent. You hold it like this and you push it and delivers the full 4 milligram spray.

[Debra Roberts]

And it could have possibly saved the life of Eric here in this case, if had they anybody had an opportunity to do it. Brian, before we go sentencing in this case for Corey will happen a little bit later in May, we're told. What can we expect?

[Brian Buckmire]

So what you'd expect is victim impact statements. And one of the reasons why the sentencing is so low, usually it's within 45 days in Utah. So they can get all the victims to be able to organize themselves and come forward to give those victim impact statements. Victim impact statements operate for two reasons. One, it's cathartic for the victims to be able to express how they felt that this defendant, now convicted felon, has affected their lives. But also to inform the judge as to where the sentencing should fall. With a case like this, with aggravated murder, more likely than not where she's looking at 25 to life, the judge I think would give something very close to the top, regardless of what anyone said then for the first time, because Corey Richards has did not testify at trial, she would have the opportunity to speak in court and she could speak, not speak, speak to the court, speak to the victims, whatever it is. The defense would also have the opportunity to give any kind of mitigation to request a lower sentence. The judge would take all information and then render a sentence that they follow.

[Debra Roberts]

It'll be interesting to hear if she does and if there's remorse there because we all listen for for those kinds of things in these cases. Brian Buckmire, so great to have you here, Dr. Widmer. Wow, you educated us tremendously. I had never had an opportunity to see this. So thank you for spending some time with us and thank you for being with us too. As always, thank you for joining this podcast episode and for joining us on 2020. And you know, all of our episodes are on Friday nights on abc and you can stream episodes like this one anytime on Disney and Hulu. Have a good day everybody.

[Brian Buckmire]

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[Debra Roberts]

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[Brian Buckmire]

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[Debra Roberts]

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[Brian Buckmire]

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[Debra Roberts]

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