20/20 After Show: Running Out Of Time

Date: September 1, 2025
Host: Debra Roberts (ABC News)
Featured Guest: TJ Quinn (ESPN Investigative Reporter)
Episode Focus: Revisiting the investigation into the 2018 murder of Lauren McCluskey at the University of Utah, exploring the institutional failures that led to her death and the years-long journalistic effort to uncover the truth.

Overview

This episode dives deep into the tragic story of Lauren McCluskey, a University of Utah student-athlete who was murdered after seeking help from campus police, and how her family, friends, and journalists have worked to uncover the layers of institutional failure that contributed to her death. Investigative reporter TJ Quinn discusses the challenges, findings, and personal impact of the four-year investigation featured in the ESPN+ documentary "Listen" and the 20/20 report "Running Out of Time."

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Origins of the Investigation

• Entry Point: Though initially hesitant due to the media’s attention on missing or harmed white women, Quinn and his team were compelled by the institutional failures exposed in Lauren's case—a situation not unique to the University of Utah, but emblematic of larger issues across campuses nationwide.

  “There are problems across the country with campus police departments... The idea—there was a reason we ended up with the title Listen for it, you know, a young woman who wanted someone to listen. That is hardly what happened.” —TJ Quinn [05:32]

Lauren McCluskey: Her Life and Family

• Background: Lauren was a track star and devoted friend, described as both quiet and fiercely determined. Raised by college professor parents, Jill and Matt McCluskey, who were accustomed to complex institutions and bureaucracy yet found themselves lost within the university system during Lauren’s crisis.
• Personal Impact: Quinn highlights the emotional burden and the journalistic challenge of maintaining objectivity while building relationships with victims’ families.
• Heartbreaking Last Call: The episode aired a clip where Lauren's parents recall talking to her just before she was abducted and killed, capturing their anguish in real time.

  “She was proud that she was making progress on an assignment... She was so happy. And then... she said, 'no, no, no, no...' and I knew something was wrong.” —Lauren’s Parents (via TJ Quinn), [10:01–10:33]

Lauren’s Relationship with Melvin Rowland

• Behavioral Changes: Friends observed Lauren becoming increasingly isolated and controlled, with particular unease as Roland (who used the alias Sean Fields) urged Lauren to buy pepper spray and go shooting.

  “There was one time where she's at a Target with a friend, and Roland's trying to call her, and she is desperate to find a place to get a good reception... this makes no sense. Why is she so panicked?” —TJ Quinn [14:27]

• Manipulation & Abuse: Roland manipulated Lauren emotionally, insisted she keep in constant contact, and eventually extorted her for money using compromising photographs.

  “The public reaction... how could she have been so stupid?... Blaming the victim. And as you looked into the story, what you realized was the level of confusion that she had and why it made sense.” —TJ Quinn [16:15–17:02]

Institutional Failure

• Campus Response: Friends reported their concerns to campus officials, but little was done. Lauren sought help as Roland escalated, but authorities failed to act or communicate effectively.
• Police & Parole Oversight: Key points include failures by campus police and parole officers—the latter unaware that Roland had confessed extortion to coworkers. A single timely call could have sent him back to prison and prevented Lauren’s murder.

  “Now, if one person had picked up a phone and said, you know, this guy just told me this, that would have been enough for her to come put the handcuffs on him. And that would have been it and saved Lauren's life.” —TJ Quinn [22:57–23:08]

Investigative Reporting Challenges

• Interviewing Police: Quinn describes a tense, lengthy interview with Officer Miguel Darris, who, contrary to public perception, did attempt to act but was hindered by an inexperienced, uncoordinated department.

  “Miguel Darris is actually the one person who did try to do something... But the systems that should have accounted for his lack of experience... that's what failed.” —TJ Quinn [25:55–27:14]

• Systemic Communication Failures: Information was not passed between shifts or departments, compounding errors and leaving Lauren’s urgent pleas unaddressed.

Impact and Legacy

• Legal and Institutional Change: The McCluskeys sued the university, not for personal gain, but to prompt systemic reform. The $13.5 million settlement funds campus safety initiatives, while the university pledged new facilities and violence prevention programs in Lauren’s name.

  “Their goal... was we want a big judgment against the school so that the insurance companies go to their universities and say there's this huge liability... our school needs to get its act together and create best practices.” —TJ Quinn [27:47–28:35]

• Lauren's Promise: The foundation promotes a pledge—“I will listen and believe you if someone is threatening you”—which has been adopted by over 200 schools worldwide.

  “They have committed themselves to make sure that there aren't cases like this, that young women like Lauren are listened to, that the universities have the systems in place…” —TJ Quinn [29:13–30:13]

Lessons for Journalists and Listeners

• Advice for Young Reporters: Persistent, skeptical inquiry is vital—never accept official narratives at face value, and recognize how confusing and contradictory realities can be for victims.

  “That's the one thing we always try to tell young journalists: don't take what the police say at face value... Don't take what officials say at face value... Don't take what the people in Lauren's life say at face value...” —TJ Quinn [31:11]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “The idea... there was a reason we ended up with the title Listen for it, you know, a young woman who wanted someone to listen.”
  —TJ Quinn [05:32]

• “How could she have been so stupid?... Blaming the victim. And as you looked into the story, what you realized was the level of confusion that she had and why it made sense.”
  —TJ Quinn [16:15–17:02]

• “If one person had picked up a phone and said, you know, this guy just told me this, that would have been enough for her to come put the handcuffs on him... and saved Lauren's life.”
  —TJ Quinn [23:05–23:08]

• “Lauren's Promise is: I will listen and believe you if someone is threatening you. And we just continue to get more and more schools and faculty members to sign up for that.”
  —Jill McCluskey [30:17]

• “Don't take what the police say at face value... don't take what officials say at face value... that's the one thing we always try to tell young journalists.”
  —TJ Quinn [31:11]

Segment Timestamps

• 00:00–02:25 — Introduction and background of the case
• 03:28–06:25 — Transition from print to investigative TV; why pursue Lauren’s case
• 06:25–09:37 — Lauren’s life, personality, and family
• 09:37–11:11 — Lauren’s last call, abduction, and emotional impact
• 13:51–18:07 — Friends’ perspective, the controlling relationship, and victim-blaming
• 18:23–20:21 — Melvin Rowland’s history and pattern of abuse
• 20:44–23:08 — Parole officer interview and missed intervention opportunities
• 25:16–27:14 — Interview with responding officer Miguel Darris; systemic breakdown
• 27:39–30:17 — Settlement, foundation, and university reforms
• 30:17–32:05 — Lauren's Promise; guidance for young journalists
• 32:05–32:27 — Closing remarks and documentary information

Conclusion

In an episode filled with compassion and clear-eyed reporting, Debra Roberts and TJ Quinn illuminate the tragic loss of Lauren McCluskey, the failures at every institutional level, and the ongoing work to ensure that her story leads to real change. The episode offers a moving, instructive account for concerned parents, advocates of campus safety, and journalists alike.

Documentary “Listen” is now streaming on ESPN+, with the 20/20 report “Running Out of Time” available via ABC News.