The After Show: Stalking Samantha – 13 Years of Terror

Summary

20/20 The After Show: Stalking Samantha – 13 Years of Terror

Host: Debra Roberts (ABC News)
Guest: Casey Jordan, Criminologist, Forensic Psychologist, and host of the podcast Criminal Appeal
Date: June 15, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode delves into the haunting true story of Samantha Stites, who survived 13 years of relentless stalking that ultimately escalated into kidnapping and imprisonment in a soundproof bunker. Using Samantha’s ordeal as a launching pad, host Debra Roberts and expert guest Casey Jordan explore the psychology of stalking, warning signs, legal considerations, and life-saving advice for those who may be at risk.

Theme:

• Unpacking the complexities of stalking: identifying behaviors, understanding perpetrator dynamics, legal hurdles, and actionable prevention strategies, highlighted by Samantha Stites's case.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Scope and Reality of Stalking

• Prevalence: Roughly 1 in 5 women and 1 in 10 men are stalked during their lifetimes ([00:50]).
• Misconceptions: Stalking is not always a dramatic or violent pursuit; it often starts subtly, with repeated and unwanted attempts at contact or presence ([02:14]).
• Motivation and Patterns: Recognizing motivation is vital in handling stalking cases. Stalking progresses from unwarranted contact to fixation and obsession ([03:52]).

Case Study: Samantha Stites

• Victim Profile: Samantha, an outgoing young woman involved in her church, met her stalker, Christopher Thomas, in a social and trusting environment ([04:45]).
• The Escalation:
  • Thomas begins as an "incompetent suitor," misinterpreting Samantha's friendliness ([05:20]).
  • "Socialized kindness" in women, especially in groups like churches, can be exploited by stalkers ([05:55]).
• Legal Recourse and Challenges:
  • Samantha files a Personal Protection Order (PPO) after persistent unwanted contact, documented thoroughly ([06:38]).
  • The judge grants a rare six-year protection order due to Samantha’s meticulous documentation ([07:36]).
  • Notable Quote:
    “She documented everything. And the judge was so convinced in this particular case that he gave her an order of protection for six years, which is an incredibly long time.” — Casey Jordan [07:36]

The Law and Its Limitations

• Orders of Protection: Protection orders are only as strong as their enforcement. If violated, they can create grounds for arrest, but may not physically prevent harm ([07:47], [08:14]).
• Variability in Law: All 50 states have anti-stalking laws, but definitions and enforcement vary widely, especially concerning cyber-stalking ([08:42]).
• Prosecutorial Challenges: The subjective nature of "harassment" and "pattern" can make it hard to convince law enforcement or courts ([09:08]).

Dynamics and Typologies of Stalkers

• Three Main Types:
  1. Incompetent Suitor – doesn’t read cues, persists despite clear rejection.
  2. Intimacy Seeker – delusional, believes victim reciprocates love, possibly severe mental disturbance.
  3. Predatory Stalker – intentions can escalate to abduction or violence ([14:19]).
• Escalation of Risk:
  • Not all stalkers intend physical harm, but any form of stalking is a form of violence (psychological, emotional, or physical) ([15:08]).
  • Notable Quote:
    “All stalking is violence. The psychological and emotional violence of the stalking behavior can be even worse than the fear of physical attack.” — Casey Jordan [15:08]

Recognizing Red Flags and Taking Action

• Red Flags of a Stalker:

  • Won’t take no for an answer ([18:38])
  • Exhibits repetitive unwanted contact
  • Starts following the victim or showing up in personal spaces and events, often claiming coincidence
  • Applies pressure to communicate or guilt-trips the victim ([18:38])

• Critical Advice:

  • Tell others: Build a support network—witnesses can provide support and corroborate your story ([19:27]).
  • Document, document, document: Save messages, take screenshots, keep a date-stamped record of every interaction, and include trusted friends or family by forwarding or sharing evidence ([19:51]–[21:28]).
    • Notable Moment: Casey Jordan shares her personal experience using GoPros front and back to document stalking behavior ([20:38]).
  • Early Engagement with Law Enforcement: It’s better to file a report sooner than later.
  • Cyberstalking: Screenshots and digital records can make or break a case.

Female Socialization and Vulnerability

• Social Pressure: Women are conditioned to be "nice" and may hesitate to be direct, which can inadvertently embolden a stalker ([05:55], [18:38]).
• Public Confrontation: As hard as it may be, publicly and verbally rebuffing a stalker can help "burst the bubble" of their delusion and provide important evidence ([19:27]).

Systemic and Legal System Challenges

• Male-Dominated System: The criminal justice system is still largely male-oriented, often failing to fully empathize with female victims ([16:11]).
• Need for Counseling: Intervention and therapy for stalkers are often essential; without it, behavior rarely changes ([16:51]).

Resources for Victims

• Top Resources:

  • SPARC (Stalking Prevention Awareness Resource Center) — Offers education, advocacy, and assistance in navigating law enforcement and courts ([21:46]).

  • RAINN and the National Domestic Violence Hotline — Even if physical harm hasn’t occurred, stalking counts as psychological violence ([21:46]).

  • Local Women's or Empowerment Centers: Provide victim advocates for emotional support and practical help, such as accompanying victims to court ([22:40]).

  • Notable Quote:
    "Do not be afraid to reach out. That's what these agencies are there for." — Casey Jordan [23:14]

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |-----------|----------------|-------| | 07:36 | Casey Jordan | “She documented everything. And the judge was so convinced in this particular case that he gave her an order of protection for six years, which is an incredibly long time.” | | 15:08 | Casey Jordan | “All stalking is violence. The psychological and emotional violence of the stalking behavior can be even worse than the fear of physical attack.” | | 19:27 | Casey Jordan | “You need a support network. And very often it's saying these things. Stay away from me in front of friends. Having there be witnesses, you're afraid to humiliate them. But that humiliation very often can burst the bubble.” | | 20:38 | Casey Jordan | “I would have a GoPro on the front strap and a GoPro on the back pocket so that I could document that this woman was following me at all times.” | | 21:30 | Debra Roberts | “Receipts is what they call it these days.” | | 23:14 | Casey Jordan | “Do not be afraid to reach out. That's what these agencies are there for.” |

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Segment Timestamps

• [00:29–02:14] Introduction and background of the Samantha Stites case
• [02:14–03:52] Psychology and red flags of stalking behavior
• [03:52–08:23] Examination of Samantha’s interactions with her stalker; legal tools and their effectiveness
• [08:42–10:34] Discrepancies in state stalking laws; what constitutes stalking
• [10:55–12:09] Description of the actual kidnapping event; Samantha’s resilience and advocacy work
• [13:48–16:51] Types of stalkers, escalation, the role of the justice system, and systemic challenges
• [17:47–19:51] Detailed advice on red flags, response, and early intervention
• [19:51–21:46] Critical steps: documentation, evidence creation, technology use
• [21:46–23:17] Support resources and closing advice

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Actionable Advice for Listeners

• Don’t downplay or dismiss persistent, unwanted attention—take it seriously.
• Be assertive and clear in rebuffing unwanted contact—preferably in front of witnesses.
• Document everything: Save, screenshot, or record all forms of contact; keep a dedicated email archive.
• Reach out for support early: Seek advice from resource centers, friends, and professional advocates before the situation escalates.
• Know your local resources: SPARC, RAINN, and local empowerment centers offer free help and can connect you with legal and emotional support.

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This episode stands as both a chilling retelling and a practical guide, highlighting that while stalking is all too common, recognizing the signs, documenting interactions, and leveraging support networks can make a life-saving difference.

Transcript

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[Debra Roberts]

Foreign. Hello Everybody. Welcome to 2020 the After Show. I'm Debra Roberts and as always, it's good having you with us. Today we are going to do what we normally do, which is sort of peel away the layers of one of our recent 2020 stories. But this one is also an episode where we're going to offer you some information which could save your life or could save the life of somebody you love. You may have heard about this case. We featured it on our 2020 episode. But it orig from a three part docu series streaming on Hulu called Stalking 13 Years of Terror. And as the title implies, it is the story of a woman who was stalked for many years. 30 year old Samantha Stites was kidnapped by a man who stalked her. He held her in a soundproof bunker. Wait till you hear the details of this story. It is truly every woman's nightmare. And believe it or not, stalking is more common than you might think. Data from the CDC finds that roughly 1 in 5 women and 1 in 10 men have been stalked at some point in their lives. So what is this all about? We've all heard about stalking before, but what's the root of it and what are the chances that it can turn violent? We're gonna take a deeper look into this topic with somebody who knows the subject well, Casey Jordan. She's a criminologist, forensic psychologist and host of the podcast Criminal Appeal. And she's gonna help us sort of understand the mind of somebody who's a stalker. But most important, she's gonna offer some warning signs that could help save a life. Give me a sense of the kinds of stories and the kinds of cases that, I mean, I know they run the gamut that you have that have given you insight into what this is all about.

[Casey Jordan]

Well, stalking is very often part of a much larger trajectory of true violence. And now I just.

[Debra Roberts]

It doesn't always turn violent though.

[Casey Jordan]

No, it doesn't always turn violent. It depends on how you handle it and it also depends on law enforcement's reaction to your complaints. Again, every stalker is different and it's really important to understand what is their motivation if you're going to figure out the best way to handle it? Now, keep in mind that stalking starts with unwarranted contact. Right? This is a person who won't stop once you have pointed out, I don't want you to be in touch with me. The biggest problem, I would argue especially that women do because of the way we're socialized. You're kind and kindness for certain stalkers throws fuel on the fire. It gives them even more power. They're abusing you, but you're gonna soften it and just go, you know what? You're a really nice guy, but I'm just not that interested. They will very often excessively, not just follow you, but message you, give you unwanted gifts, which leaves you with a feeling of obligation to thank you. They will follow you. One of the biggest things you have to do is really monitor whether they're following you. It is not a coincidence when they're always in the grocery store, in your classes. And this can be really difficult if you're st who has an excuse to be in your perimeter. You work together, you're in the same clubs, things like that, and they figure out what your Achilles heel is, then they exploit that vulnerability of you. There's a number of things that really should huge red flags that should make people stand back and think, I have got to take action to stop this.

[Debra Roberts]

You were not involved in Samantha's case, but you kind of recognize a lot of what you see here. When you heard about this story. I mean, what were your impressions when you heard this? Young woman stalked by a guy many years.

[Casey Jordan]

This one is a classic case where the young man became obsessed with the young woman. And you know, stalking is driven by three important things. You've got a fixation, an obsession, and the pursuit of unwanted contact. So in that particular vein, this is classic. And it elevated escalated. We know that Samantha and her friends told him that the attention was unwanted and he needs to stop it. But it only elevated, and he became every. Mostly women, as you pointed out, are victims of stalking. Every woman's worst nightmare. But what sets this apart from so many other stalking cases is the lengths he went to possess her.

[Debra Roberts]

Let's talk about the two of these two young people. She's a classic gal who's close to her family, was involved in her church, and they had met. Christopher Thomas initially wanted to connect, wanted to be closer to Samantha. And as you said, the signals were sent that she really wasn't interested in him romantically. But when you think about the fact that this clearly was just a woman trying to be friendly with a guy. But how can things escalate like that from a young woman who's trying to be a bright, sunny personality and just friendly to somebody, to him, either misinterpreting the signals or choosing to see something differently.

[Casey Jordan]

The dynamics are really complex. First of all, they did meet in a church setting. All right? So that kind of social setting and peer group, you know, you don't want to be rude, you don't want to come across as. You want to be charitable in a church setting. He started out as what we would call an incompetent suitor. Now, she was just 19, and he was about 27 when they met. But he didn't interpret that as a big age gap. And again, with that age differential, as well as the power dynamic, he's a male and she's a young female. And you pointed it out, she was friendly, and that is her nature.

[Debra Roberts]

And we are, as women, I think, socialized to be nice and to be kind and not to be so harsh and rude toward anybody. Will you talk about how it went further and if. Unless. Unless you're going to actually say, put your foot down. Well, she did. In 2014, things kind of took a turn. She could see that he was not taking no for an answer. And Samantha eventually filed a personal protection order called a PPO against Thomas. Because they had gone through school, she had relocated to another place, another state. And he follows her, trying to pursue the same internships she's pursuing. By now, she's clearly spooked, so she files this PPO to try to keep him away from her. What is what exactly? We've heard of restraining orders. What's a pp?

[Casey Jordan]

Well, and they are different. Restraining order and an order of protection are two different things. But the order of protection is a legal document. You have to go and present your evidence and convince a judge that restrictions should be put on this person. And they. They are very often tailored to the particular situation because so many times orders of protection are actually between people who have had a relationship. That's where it gets complex, because she's insisting, I've never had a relationship with this guy. It's not like he's an ex boyfriend. Right? So if you haven't had a prior relationship, it's really important to document, document, document. I'm going to return to that theme later. But she was able to convince a judge, here are all the things he's done over the last three years. Not only did I move out of state. But he applied and got into the same program that I was in, because how do you get to kick somebody out of a program just because they are in it with you? She documented everything. And the judge was so convinced in this particular case that he gave her an order of protection for. For six years, which is an incredibly long time.

[Debra Roberts]

In other words, the judge had never done that.

[Casey Jordan]

Never had done it, truly believed her and wanted to protect her. And here's the interesting thing. Orders of protection, we often say, aren't worth the paper they're written on, because by the time somebody violates the order of protection, you could be dead. So it's a piece of paper that helps if that person violates it. A lot of times it will say, do not write, do not call, do not come within 300 yards of this person. And if they do that, you call the police and you've got back.

[Debra Roberts]

Right.

[Casey Jordan]

You've got something that could get them arrested. Yeah, but in this particular case, he actually followed the parameters of the order and he did not contact her for six years.

[Debra Roberts]

Right. He didn't violate. Which led people to think that maybe he wasn't a danger. It's important to know what constitutes stalking because, you know, it's one thing for somebody to follow you and you know, we think about somebody creepily looking maybe at you as you walk into your home, or maybe even stalking you online. What qualifies as stalking?

[Casey Jordan]

Now, all 50 states have some version of anti stalking laws, but they are dramatically different. And sometimes they are very vague and open to interpretation. But the stalking usually has a few elements. First of all, it is repeated and unwanted contact and there's a pattern. Right. So many of our stalking laws do not include they're outdated prohibitions against cyber stalking.

[Ryan Reynolds]

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[Casey Jordan]

There's no law against writing letters to people. You can write letters to people and email people all you like, but it has to be elevated to the form of harassment. And that very often is a subjective interpretation. So it's really difficult sometimes to convince a judge or a prosecutor or even a cop if you've called, that this has elevated to the point of unwanted contact, that is harassment. And the pattern makes me feel threatened. All of these words are open to interpretation.

[Debra Roberts]

Yeah. But if the key is unwanted attention and a pattern and a pattern, and if you were to make sure you rebuff that person and make it clear you don't want them to continue to contact you, that's a whole different thing.

[Casey Jordan]

Correct?

[Debra Roberts]

Well, he. Thomas, eventually after her order expired, he starts showing up again. He even showed up at her soccer games. He's really spooking her big time. She's trying to now get another ppo. This one has expired. What recourse do you have? So you've had something like this in place and now you want to get another one, and she had difficulty. Now, the next time, what can you do?

[Casey Jordan]

Now, here's where we get into a debate. He followed her to a whole new town where she relocated. After finishing her master's in social work, she got a job in Traverse City, Michigan, and settled there. He followed her there. She gets on a soccer team, adult soccer team, and he joins the soccer league. Why should she drop off the soccer team?

[Debra Roberts]

Why should she be on her.

[Casey Jordan]

Why should she have to quit going to the gym that she goes to when he suddenly shows up at the gym? Because then she's running. And that gives him power. But sometimes, for the people reviewing these requests for the order of protection, this one was considered a complex relationship. The first one just put him on pause for six years, right in our

[Debra Roberts]

reporting and also in the docu series, too, you see and you hear from Samantha talking about that horrifying October morning when the unthinkable happened. When he shows up, Thomas breaks into her home, handcuffs her, gags her, and she talks about being fearful she was gonna die. And this reminds me so much of a story that I covered years ago where a young woman was a guy that offered to give her a ride did the same thing. Took her, handcuffed her. She woke up in some, you know, a bunker. A bunker. That's exactly right. And that's what she was, in, a bunker. And she was held for a long time. In this case, Samantha was held for not quite a whole day. Her harrowing story is just nothing short of not only remarkable, but inspirational. She has gone on to work as a social worker and advocating for stalking victims. It's just really, really kind of amazing stuff. And I want to talk more with you about this because she talks a lot in our broadcast about what she had to go through in this harrowing ordeal. But when we come back, we're going to talk about red flags that every woman should know about and some that aren't so obvious. This is so important, so don't go anywhere.

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[Debra Roberts]

Welcome back to 2020 the After Show. We are having a fascinating conversation with criminologist and forensic psychologist Casey Jordan, who has worked on a number of stalking cases. Are these, I mean, they're not people skulking around in alleys necessarily all the time, are they? When we talk about how they choose their victims, I mean, these may not be people who set out to be a stalker. Sometimes it might be a guy who truly is just interested in a woman, as you said, and then he has like this distorted idea of it. Is there something that leaves you more vulnerable?

[Casey Jordan]

I would. You can't see it coming. All right, it's like a heat seeking missile. But the bottom line is that some of these, the three typologies are going to be what we called the incompetent suitor. So if somebody is an incompetent suitor, somebody who does not read the room, doesn't get that you are not at all interested in them. But far more common are the other two typologies, which include the person who's seeking intimacy, who thinks that you do love them, and they suffer from delusions, severe mental disturbance and that usually evolves to the worst kind, which is the predatory stalker. Predatory stalkers are the ones that will escalate into a physical confrontation, including abduction, kidnapping, even murder.

[Debra Roberts]

So the difference between somebody being a nuisance and having the potential for violence, I mean, how does one even know?

[Casey Jordan]

They all listen. First of all, all stalking is violence. And we talk about, okay, the physical violence might is what we most fear. But I can't even. I've worked with stalkers. In many stalking cases, the psychological and emotional violence of the stalking behavior can be even worse than the phys, the fear of physical attack. But the physical attack will at least be a watershed event that law enforcement takes seriously. Right. So when somebody comes in physical proximity, even though that's what we fear the most, in many ways, that is the apex of the stalking behavior, that is going to end it. Because once they make a physical overture towards you, then law enforcement will take it seriously and get involved.

[Debra Roberts]

You know, in a lot of these stories, we talk about the legal system and in the case of Samantha Stites, how she was able. Able to get an order of protection. But sometimes that can be difficult. Does the legal system seem to recognize how difficult this can be, but also how dangerous this can be?

[Casey Jordan]

I would argue things are much better than they were 30 years ago when we first saw stalking statutes start passing in all of the states. But the biggest problem, I would argue is that the criminal justice system is still extremely male dominated. We need the criminal justice system to be handled by practitioners who can put themselves in the shoes of the victim, the target, who is trying to get law enforcement and the criminal justice system to assist them in stopping the behavior. Usually, stalking won't change unless there is intervention and the stalker gets some very serious cognitive behavioral therapy from a counselor or a therapist.

[Debra Roberts]

Yeah, and having that kind of intervention makes such a difference. Well, we want to talk more about how to recognize these warning signs and also what you can do, because I know you have advice for us. So we're going to take a quick break. And when we come back, warning signs of a stalker and what you can do to protect yourself. So stay with us.

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[Debra Roberts]

Welcome back to 2020 the After Show. I am here with Casey Jordan, criminologist and host of the true crime podcast Criminal Appeal, who is helping us understand stalking. We mentioned earlier that one in five women experience stalking in their lifetime. And it also affects men, too, but mostly women. So we want to talk about some of the red flags of a stalker, especially those that may not seem obvious at first. And you talked about people who don't seem to take no for an answer and so forth. Women often, as we said, want to be nice, we want to be kind. We don't want to go in there very harshly with people. But what are those red flags? What's the difference? Someone who is fairly harmless but just kind of stays in your orbit and just doesn't want to give up because they feel like maybe one of these days she'll want to date me. What are the warning signs that something serious could be headed your way?

[Casey Jordan]

Well, number one, they don't take no for an answer. And number two, they just. The behavior is repetitive and they will not stop. They can't. So once you have said, I'm not interested, and then you even escalate it to. To stay the hell away from me, and they still are just coming around going, you'll change your mind. You really love me. Two things you need to do when those red flags come again. Repetitive contact, don't take no for an answer. And the following patterns. Meaning they follow you around and they show up and they just claim it's a coincidence. That's them trying to exert their power over you and undermine your feeling of safety. And again, pressure to communicate. You're so rude. Guilting. But the key is once it gets really uncomfortable, number one, tell all your friends.

[Debra Roberts]

That's important.

[Casey Jordan]

You need a support network. And very often it's saying these things. Stay away from me in front of friends. Having there be witnesses, you're afraid to humiliate them. But that humiliation very often can burst the bubble.

[Debra Roberts]

Yeah. And also it can pay off later. If you need to get witnesses. Exactly. If you need to get law enforcement. So when do you know that this has gotten to the point where I need to get law enforcement or the courts involved.

[Casey Jordan]

This is a decision that every target will have to make for themselves. But my advice is get there earlier rather than later. You want to nip it in the bud at the early stages. So call law enforcement. Because the number one piece of advice I will give to Anybody who's being stalked is document, document, document, evidence, evidence, evidence. You do not want this to be a question of whether you're a reasonable person or whether you're hypersensitive. And. And this guy doesn't mean you any harm. He's just trying to date you. So document everything. Even your. And I'm a big believer in say things in front of people and record everything. And that's so much easier, Deborah, today with our phones, of course, but literally when I was afraid of one of my former students stalking me, I would wear everywhere I went shopping, to the grocery store, whatever, a backpack, and I would have a GoPro on the front strap and a GoPro on the back pocket so that I could document that this woman was following me at all times. You think having your phone in your hand is enough, but it's like, where's my phone? Oh, I gotta get it on record. I gotta put it from photo to video. You just want to be recording everything if you're being followed. And if it's cyber stalking, you need to cache everything and screenshot, screenshot everything. And then make yourself a specific stalker email, if you will. And every time this person makes contact with you, send yourself an email and CC a trusted friend who will also have access to that account so that everything is time date stamped. That's so critical because later the stalker could say, she's making this up.

[Debra Roberts]

Yeah, yeah. Receipts is what they call it these days.

[Casey Jordan]

Have receipts, have a receipt, time date stamp, and email yourself every single time and all those screenshots in case you lose your phone.

[Debra Roberts]

And before I let you go, what about resources? What's out there for people to be helped? If you don't go to the police and you don't go to the courts, what's out there and available to help you out?

[Casey Jordan]

The very best online resource is called spark, S P A R C, and it stands for the Stalking Prevention Awareness Resource Center. And it not only has a great deal of educational information that helps you figure out who your stalker is and how you should handle it, but they do a lot of advocacy as well. They don't do one on one counseling, but you can contact them, tell them the kind of contact that's happening, what your relationship is with this person, and they can advise you best and even send you to local women's centers, empowerment centers in your community where you can get one on one counseling. They give a lot of educational advice, but then also how to get support. You can call not only SPARK and also Rainn and the national hotline for domestic violence. I know you're going, oh no, he hasn't struck me yet. But it is domestic violence when somebody is stalking you because it's psychological violence and just getting that support, even if they're like, well, we'll go with you in your own community. Almost all cities have a women's center or what they now call an empowerment center because they service people of all genders and sexes. And you can go there and get a victim advocate who will walk you through the process of how to get an order of protection or even a restraining order, which is right about and sometimes just having someone to help you navigate all of the red tape of how that works, go to court with you, listen to you and be your advocate can make all the difference in the world.

[Debra Roberts]

Yeah.

[Casey Jordan]

So do not be afraid to reach out. That's what these agencies are there for.

[Debra Roberts]

And don't brush it off and think that it's harmless because these things can actually escalate. This is such good advice. Thank you again for being here and thank you to our listeners. You can catch the latest 2020 episodes of course on Friday night on ABC and you can stream episodes anytime on Disney and Hulu. You can also watch the docu series series stalking Samantha 13 years of terror right now on Disney plus and Hulu. Thanks so much for being with us everybody.

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near Beer Athletic Brewing Co. Fit for all times.