20/20 After Show: The Hunt for Mr. Right (Part 2)

Podcast: 20/20
Host: Deborah Roberts (ABC News)
Guests: Pat Lalama, 20/20 Contributor
Release Date: February 9, 2026
Main Theme:
An in-depth analysis and reflection on the long-running investigation and trial surrounding the murder of Sue Marcum, a beloved university professor, and the conviction of Jorge Landeros. The episode focuses on courtroom dynamics, lessons for others in similar situations, and the broader implications of the case.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Background & Case Recap

• [00:04] Deborah Roberts introduces the aftermath of the Sue Marcum murder trial and brings in Pat Lalama, who has reported on the entire case.
• Sue Marcum, an American University professor, was murdered in her home. Jorge Landeros, a trusted figure in her life (yoga instructor and Spanish teacher), was ultimately convicted for her murder after a 12-year investigation.

2. Courtroom Dynamics and Trial Observations

• Unique All-Female Court:
  • Pat notes the unusual aspect that everyone in the courtroom, from judge to attorneys and bailiffs, was female ([01:12]).
    • Quote: "Everybody was female. The judge was female. The two prosecutors were female. The two defense attorneys were female. The clerk was female. Even some of the bailiffs were female." – Pat ([01:12])
  • Despite gender, Pat emphasizes the professionalism and toughness on all sides:
    • Quote: "It was no different than any other trial because these were tough people. They sparred and argued as much as anyone else." – Pat ([01:32])
• Prosecution vs. Defense:
  • Prosecution focused on Marcum's deteriorating mental state, financial motives, and key DNA evidence (tequila bottle, under fingernails) ([02:34]).
  • Defense challenged every piece of evidence and investigative process to create reasonable doubt, resulting in moments of uncertainty for observers and hardship for Marcum’s family ([03:09]):
    • Quote: "There were times when I thought, I don’t know, is this jury going to collectively decide that, you know, everything was good or there was enough of a question." – Pat ([03:44])

3. Verdict: Why Second-Degree Murder?

• [05:47] The trial concluded in October 2025: Landeros found guilty of second-degree murder (not first-degree).
• Why Second-Degree, Not First? ([06:14])
  • Lack of clear evidence of premeditation; jury could not be certain he intended to kill before arriving.
  • Prosecutors argued that premeditation can happen in the moment, e.g., between repeated attacks, but acknowledged juries often struggle with that nuance ([06:55]):
    • Quote: "Premeditation can happen between individual blows. He has an option to stop, to stop attacking and causing her death." – Pat ([06:55])
  • Prosecutors asked for both verdict options, which Pat called "smart lawyering."
• Jury Deliberations and Emotional Reaction:
  • Jury deliberated less than 8 hours, including a lunch break.
  • Emotional intensity described as verdicts were read—first-degree not guilty, second-degree guilty ([07:56]):
    • Quote: "Proof that juries do work and they are very committed citizens and they're very logical people, too." – Pat ([08:49])
• Reflection on Verdict and Justice:
  • Prosecutors must charge what they’re confident they can prove rather than what seems most severe.
  • Emphasis on careful, fact-based prosecution to avoid double jeopardy and wrongful acquittal ([09:06]).

4. Personal and Societal Lessons: Recognizing Red Flags

• Why Did Sue Let Jorge Back In? ([13:20])
  • Despite realizing the danger, Sue remained emotionally attached and hopeful for change, as evidenced in her own emails ([13:20]).
    • Quote: "'I'm still as enamored with you today as I was when I first met you.'" – Pat quoting Sue Marcum ([13:20])
  • Deborah and Pat discuss how common it is to let people back in, even against one's better judgment.
    • Quote: "Who hasn’t let somebody back into their lives from time to time when you know it’s not the right way to go, but you just...you hold onto some hope, right?" – Deborah ([13:44])
• Red Flags and Warnings for Listeners ([14:22])
  • Pat urges women (and all listeners) to trust their gut when something feels off, and to lean on friends and family for perspective.
    • Quote: "When their gut tells them I'm not being treated quite right...trust your gut and talk it over. Friends play a big role in this too." – Pat ([14:22])
  • Warns about gaslighting and psychological manipulation, noting how abusers can flip concern into guilt ([15:21]):
    • Quote: “You go to your partner with a concern...and by the end of the conversation, you’re crying, and that partner has got complete control.” – Pat ([15:21])
  • Shame is a common barrier to seeking help; victims shouldn't blame themselves or suffer in silence ([16:09], [16:55]).
  • Even financial independence, as Sue had, doesn’t always protect against manipulation and emotional entrapment.

5. Reflections on the Trial and Outcome

• Sentencing Outlook ([10:04])

  • Landeros faces up to 30 years; Pat doubts parole is likely.
  • Sense of closure for Marcum’s family after a 15-year ordeal.

• Closing Thoughts

  • Pat and Deborah reflect on how hard it is to let go when hope for someone lingers, and the importance of not blaming the victim.
  • The case is not just a chilling crime story but an instructive lesson about recognizing abusive dynamics and supporting those trapped in them.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On courtroom representation:
  “Everybody was female...But it was no different than any other trial because these were tough people.” – Pat Lalama ([01:12], [01:32])

• On gaslighting and emotional manipulation:
  "You go to your partner with a concern...and by the end of the conversation, you're crying, and that partner has got complete control." – Pat Lalama ([15:21])

• On the importance of trusting your gut:
  "When their gut tells them I'm not being treated quite right... trust your gut and talk it over. Friends play a big role in this too." – Pat Lalama ([14:22])

• On the verdict:
  "Proof that juries do work and they are very committed citizens and they're very logical people, too." – Pat Lalama ([08:49])

• On not blaming the victim:
  “It is not that easy for someone who is this far gone. And there are a lot of women like this, which is why you cannot beat yourself up for it. It’s not shameful. Go get help.” – Pat Lalama ([16:13], [16:55])

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:04–01:10: Introduction & case background
• 01:12–03:44: Courtroom dynamics & trial observations
• 05:47–10:22: Guilty verdict, legal strategy, sentencing implications
• 13:20–16:55: Victim psychology, red flags, lessons for listeners
• 16:55–17:13: Final thoughts on not blaming victims

Tone & Style Notes

• The conversation balances empathetic reflection, expert trial analysis, and practical advice. Pat Lalama’s delivery is warm, candid, and passionate, especially on lessons to be learned.

Takeaways for Listeners

• The Sue Marcum case serves as a powerful reminder about manipulation, the dangers of ignoring instinctual warnings, and the importance of supporting those in abusive situations.
• Legal outcomes are often more complex than headline verdicts suggest; prosecutors and juries must navigate what can be proven beyond reasonable doubt.
• Letting go, seeking help, and being vigilant for red flags can save lives — and it’s never the victim’s fault.

For more true crime analysis, stream 20/20 on ABC, Disney+, or Hulu.