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- [00:01]
A
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- [00:58]
B
Hi there everybody. Deborah Roberts here and welcome to 2020 After Show. Today we are going to take you inside and in depth in a story that is so riveting you would be tempted to think that it is fictional. But it is not. It is real life. This story captivated so many people around the country. It was a southern scandal that not only rocked South Carolina, where it all happened, but the nation. You might recall a lawyer from a prominent South Carolina family by the name of Alex Murdoch, who was found guilty in March of 2023 of murdering his wife Maggie and their 22 year old son Paul. The Murdaughs were part of a legal dynasty spanning generations in South Carolina, which is one of the reasons this story just got so many people interested in it. He was one of the most powerful attorneys in the state with deep connections to prosecutors and to the police. Before his conviction, a local journalist by name of Mandy Matney, who's only in her 30s, was at the center of really pulling back the curtain and she never, ever gave up fighting to get this story out and also to find some sense of justice. Well, 2020's latest episode, the Murdoch Family Murders, dives deep into this case as well as Mandy's podcast which is chronicling her work on the story and a new star studded scripted series on Hulu and Disney called Death in the family is also. We are so delighted to have you. Mandy, welcome.
- [02:36]
C
Hi. Thank you so much.
- [02:37]
B
Nice to meet you.
- [02:38]
C
Thanks for having me. And that intro was amazing.
- [02:40]
B
Well, thank you. Well, if you approve, then I'm glad to hear that because you know, you know this story inside and out. Mandy, before we get started and get up to speed on the story, you know, I'm always fascinated by young journalists like yourself. And of course, you know, I mean, a story like this, you would think it would take somebody who is maybe much, much older and seasoned to bring this to light. But, you know, you're young, you started in local, but you knew a story when you saw a story.
- [03:07]
C
Thank you for saying that. I'm young. I'm 35.
- [03:10]
B
And you're young, honey, you're young.
- [03:14]
C
And I will always very much appreciate that. But yes, when I started on the story. So I have been investigating the Murdaugh since 2019 at this point. And when I think back, I was 28 when this whole thing started. So, yeah, I was young.
- [03:29]
B
But.
- [03:30]
C
But I very much. I always was interested in true crime. I worked in local news, but most of the time I worked in local news and would find interesting stories. I never had time to really like, dig in or investigate. As small newspapers go, usually you have to get the headline, get the story.
- [03:51]
B
Out and get to the county commission meeting and all of that.
- [03:53]
C
Yeah. Move on to the next thing and fill the newspaper. I was filling newspapers for years just trying to do that. And I was so fascinated by day one of this story. It was the morning of the boat crash when I first found out about the Murdaugh family. I had kind of heard about them, but that morning of the boat crash, we just heard from several different people saying the driver is from a family of powerful attorneys and if you guys don't cover this, they will cover it up. And that something just kind of clicked inside of me. And you know, when, when you feel like you've been training your whole life for something, that's kind of how I felt with this Murdoch story. And it's interesting that you say maybe an older veteran reporter. I think it was good for me that I was young. And also I was not from South Carolina. I didn't have any ties and I was just. I saw something wrong and went for it.
- [04:55]
B
You came to it with fresh eyes. Well, let's talk about the boat crash. Cause that is sort of how this all kicked off. In 2019, a 19 year old girl by the name of Mallory beach was with friends, including Paul Murdoch and she went missing after they had been out on a boat, and there had been a boat crash, as you say. And her body was discovered a week later. And Paul was later indicted on charges of boating under the influence. So that sort of was the early story, and that was just sort of the beginning. And then the publicity sort of started from there. So the boat crash happens, you know, in a lot of local areas. That's a sad, tragic story. Young people out on a boat and so forth. But you're talking about a kid from a prominent family. So set the scene for us a little bit. Because this town in South Carolina is relatively small. This family, you know, as I said, was a dynasty. The grandfather and, you know, the father, Alex Murdock, they had all been involved not only in the law, but in politics and so forth. Set the scene for us. And what you found, once you started to dig into this, what felt like a local story in the beginning.
- [06:00]
C
Yeah, absolutely. So, I mean, I think the first thing. And I was working with a team of excellent reporters at the Island Packet, Theresa Moss and Liz Farrell. And together we just kind of divided and conquered all of the rumors that we were hearing, first of all, with the history of the family, like you said.
- [06:19]
B
And what rumors were you hearing?
- [06:21]
C
That there were other deaths, that Mallory was not the first one.
- [06:25]
B
That is kind of scary stuff. It was.
- [06:28]
C
It's weird saying this now, but it felt like a movie. It felt like being a journalist in a movie. When you hear. When you're investigating a story and you. And this happened many times randomly get an email of someone you don't know saying, I would watch your back if I were you.
- [06:44]
B
That's serious stuff for a young reporter.
- [06:46]
C
It was. But luckily, I. Again, with the team that I was working at the Island Packet, we all just realized that this story was important so early on. Usually there's a person arrested. There was no arrest. It was really, really, really difficult to get information out of the South Carolina Department of Natural Resources, who was in charge of the investigation. We just kept chipp and story after story and putting the pressure on law enforcement to keep this in the spotlight. And then that combined with Mallory Beach. Unfortunately, her body was found a week later, and that was a horrible, horrible thing. But soon after that, her family was very brave in suing the Murdaugh family. And that lawsuit brought a lot to light about the crash and really a lot of information that kept my stories going. And I remember we thought it was unbelievable and amazing when Paul Murdoch was actually charged with three DUIs. In April of 2019, because a lot of people said it would never happen. Yeah, this is never going to happen. You're wasting your time.
- [08:02]
B
Well, you kept the pressure on in terms of stories and reporting, so you began to sort of peel away some layers. And then two and a half years later, after Mallory's death, and you had been reporting on this story, Paul and his mom's bodies were found on the family's property called Moselle. I remember reading about this, because at that point, now it's starting to make national news and people are wondering what is going on in South Carolina. What was your reaction when you heard the mother and the son are both found dead? What was your first reaction?
- [08:33]
C
Shocked. Honestly, I could not believe it. I not only was reporting on this story, but I was obsessed. Like, I had. I had a whole murder board, you call it, you know, in your house. Really, like, you're connecting the dots. And, like, I spent a ton of time. My husband was getting into the story, too. He was helping me in my free time. I was thinking about this family and this boat crash and thinking of the idea of eventually having a podcast at some point, just about the boat crash. But I was just so invested in all of this, all of the things involving the Murdaugh family and then. And also, as I said earlier, getting, like, veiled threats and getting a lot of people saying to be careful, hearing those things. So when I heard that Maggie and Paul were murdered, I knew in my gut there was something more that was going to happen with this story. You know, as a journalist, when you see all these horrible things happening in one story and it's not ending yet, I knew that something bad was gonna happen.
- [09:39]
B
It's too much to be coincidence. Yeah, right.
- [09:43]
C
But I never in a million years imagined it would be the two members of the Murdaugh family, and they were shot to death.
- [09:50]
B
By the way, what tips did you begin to get as you really started to dig deeper into the story?
- [09:56]
C
We began hearing very early on that he was a person of interest in the investigation. There was two different guns used. So that was a very weird piece of information. And then we started hearing that at least one of those guns was connected to the Murdaugh family in some way. But the main thing that. That I heard, that I thought it had to be somebody within the family, was that it was at Moselle at night. I was familiar with the property. I knew and still know a lot of people who have been there. The fact that they were killed at the dog kennels on their Property, Maggie and Paul. I could not imagine a scenario where anybody outside of the family would have the guts to do that. To go onto the Murdaugh property in Moselle in South Carolina, that's like as risky as going to kill the governor at his mansion. You know what I mean? So my first thoughts were, this has to be something within the family and that I always thought Alex Murdock was suspicious in many different ways.
- [11:04]
B
Well, you know, as you began to dig into this, as you said, you had been getting threats, veiled threats, some of them outright threats. Were you really worried at any point? Were you, did you ever see anybody like, you know, skulking around? Did you worry for your safety?
- [11:17]
C
I did worry for my safety. I lived in fear for a very long time. Pretty much up until he was arrested. Alex Murdock was arrested for financial crimes in the fall of 2021. That made me feel better, but it still was just very scary for a long time.
- [11:35]
B
But you stayed on the story. You stayed on the story. And we gotta take a break, Mandy. But coming up, we're gonna get a backstage pass on Mandy adapting her reporting for POD and for tv. Stay with us.
- [11:54]
D
This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. You ever find yourself playing the budgeting game? Well, with the name your price tool from Progressive, you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Try it@progressive.com, progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Price and coverage match limited by state law, not available in all states. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. You ever find yourself playing the budgeting game? Well, with the name your price tool from Progressive, you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Try it@progressive.com Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Price and coverage match limited by state law. Not available in all states.
- [12:38]
B
We are back now with investigative journalist Mandy Matney, who was known for her reporting on the Murdoch foundation murders down in South Carolina. And now of course, the inspiration for a star studded Hulu series, Murdoch Death in the Family. And I guess before we even get to that, talking about the casting, let's talk about where things stand right now because Alex Murdoch was convicted in these murders. He's in prison right now. Give us a quick little up to date before we get into where you go from here.
- [13:05]
C
Alex Murdaugh was convicted in 2023. He has appealed that conviction and that appeal is in the process of being reviewed. But I that's a big misconception with this case. It's not anywhere close to getting a new trial or anything like that at this point. He's also been convicted of dozens of financial crimes at both the state and federal level. So he's going to be in prison for the rest of his life, no matter what.
- [13:36]
B
And there are many people who might credit you with having had some part in seeing this justice happen. And as I said, you're the inspiration for a star studded Hulu series. Murdoch Death in the Family. Let's talk about the casting. There's Patricia Arquette. Jason Clark as Alex Murdock. Patricia plays his wife Maggie. And Brittany Snow plays you. And I can actually see that. I can see the resemblance. What did you think about that and how did you react? How did you prepare Britney? Did they come to you? Tell us about how it all came to be again.
- [14:08]
C
Thank you. I think that she is a wonderful, beautiful, brilliant person. I have been watching her work since I was a teenager and loved Pitch Perfect and John Tucker Must Die. And I could not believe it. It was, I believe, in January of this year when Erin Lee Carr, the co creator of the show, called me and said, have you heard of a person named Brittany Snow?
- [14:33]
B
I was like, yeah, yeah.
- [14:37]
C
I'm like, duh. I'm her biggest fan. What? And she said not only is she interested, she's really interested in playing you, Mandy, but she listened to your entire podcast front to end and she knows this story. Like she really knows this story and she's very much interested. And I was just flabbergasted. I didn't believe it. Like, yeah, had to sit down like one of those moments and really didn't believe it for a while. I mean, she followed me on Instagram right after that and I was shocked by that. I was constant. And then I was. There was a few months where I couldn't tell anybody, but I was constantly like wanting to tell everybody.
- [15:21]
B
You're excited, but you can't say anything because.
- [15:24]
C
Yeah, because she's just an amazing, wonderful actor and what a huge name and what a boost of confidence that that really gave me. It really made me feel like more legitimate in a lot of ways that somebody like Brittany Snow was interested in playing me. And not only was she interested in playing me, like I said, but she knew the story, knew the podcast, immediately wanted to hop on the phone and just ask questions about me and who I was as a person. And we got dinner pretty soon after that and just became friends.
- [15:59]
B
Wow.
- [16:00]
C
And that's so weird for me to.
- [16:01]
B
Say, but she is my bff, Britney Snow. It's no Surprise that this would be adapted. I mean, of course, and it couldn't have been a surprise to you because this is stranger than fiction, but to have Britney Snow playing you. What kinds of things did she ask? And for her to start taking on your mannerisms, whatever your mannerisms are, I mean, what was that like? And did you give her any thoughts about who you are as a person that would help inform her role?
- [16:27]
C
She immediately ordered my book, and I believe by the time that she called me, she read it in like, two days. Then faster and so thoroughly. You know, when you can tell you're an author, you can tell when somebody actually read your book and, like, read the details and didn't just say it.
- [16:44]
B
Yes, absolutely.
- [16:44]
C
I knew that she read. Yeah, I knew that she read, like, every single detail. And I was so amazed by that. I mean, not only it wasn't just for the role, but she just always went beyond. She. For instance, like, my life has been shaped by this tragedy that happened when I was a child. My older brother died when I was seven years old. And she absolutely zeroed in on that. And it was really sweet in a really uplifting and kind and inspiring way. She was like you. I can tell that your purpose to get justice for other people all revolves around what happened to you as a child. And she kept bringing up very deep things like that. And I was just so amazed by that.
- [17:36]
B
You're a co producer on the series as well, and to actually have it, you know, come to air must have been really gratifying for you. Almost 20 minutes into the second episode of the series, there's a moment where Britney Snow, playing you, locks eyes with Alex Murdaugh. It's a chilling scene in the show. Did that really happen?
- [17:57]
C
So this is a great example of that are based in truth. But you have to combine so many different moments to bring something like this to television. The moment actually happened in 2019 at Paul Murdock's first Bond hearing. We locked eyes and it was a very weird moment. And then there's. Spoiler alert. Another locking of eyes that did take place again at the end of the season. And. And I tease.
- [18:27]
B
A big tease there.
- [18:29]
C
I absolutely loved that they did that. I thought it was brilliant and it gave me chills.
- [18:35]
B
What did that feel like for you in real life when that happened? I mean, this is a guy who is used to walking around with such authority and power, and then he locks eyes with you, the woman who could very well be bringing him to justice.
- [18:48]
C
I was just kind of grossed out by him. I remember not fearful. No, because I was just. We were there for a bond hearing and I'll never forget watching him walk around the courtroom and he was shaking hands like a politician, and it was like, this is a bond hearing about your son killing another human being. Yeah. I was just disgusted. So it was very easy for me to have evil eyes at that point. I was like, something's up with you.
- [19:22]
B
Yeah. You were able to kind of give the chill right back. Do you have any idea whether any of the Murdoch family has actually seen the episode? No, I don't. It'll be very interesting if you wind up hearing that Patricia Arquette is such a talented, award winning actress and she takes on all these roles in ways that are so memorable. She said that she wanted to honor women who were murdered by their partners by, you know, taking on this role. And we see these tragedies so often on 2020. We cover so many stories. We're. That happens. I'm assuming that was important for you too, to actually honor and to make a statement with this work.
- [20:02]
C
Yeah, absolutely. I think that I had over 90 episodes of the Murdoch Murders podcast. And I know that that's insane to say, but the craziest part was that we were always just trying to cover the next thing. There was really no time to go back and take a breath and talk about, like, who Maggie was and how this happened to her. And that always ate. Because as a person who really. I get angry when women's deaths, specifically women's deaths, and this was a death of domestic violence. And I am so grateful that not only Patricia took on this role, but she was very, very serious about it. I actually interviewed her for the companion podcast for Murdoch Death and the Family about the serious research that she did. And she did so many things throughout the show to really portray a cautionary tale for Maggie and so many other women who are just caught in a bad relationship and can't get out.
- [21:02]
B
Yeah. Revealing the power dynamic. She did a fabulous job in that. Well, coming up, Mandy, stay with us because you're gonna shine a light on female journalists and how they learn to break down barriers throughout their careers. Something you certainly did here. And we wanna hear your advice for women everywhere when we come back. So stay with us, everybody.
- [21:27]
D
This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. You chose to hit play on this podcast today. Smart choice. Make another smart choice with Auto quote Explorer to compare rates from multiple car insurance companies all at once. Try it@progressive.com Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates not available in all states or situations. Prices vary based on how you buy.
- [21:53]
B
We're back now with investigative journalist Mandy Matney, who is known for her incredible work as a journalist uncovering critical details in the Murdoch murder case, a case that captivated not just South Carolina, where it happened, but the entire country. You can watch Murdoch Death in the Family on Hulu, and while the series is partially fictionalized for dramatic purposes, it is inspired by Mandy's podcast and her years of reporting. So, Mandy, you know, congratulations to you on, you know, such great work here. Talk about the case right now, as you said earlier, Alex Murdoch is currently awaiting a decision about an appeal. Where does the case stand now? Because he has come back to court once or twice, I think, since his conviction.
- [22:36]
C
Yeah, he's come back a couple times. In January of 2024, he went before the court for a hearing where Justice Jean Toll ultimately decided that he got a fair trial in relation to he accused the clerk of court of jury tampering. Ultimately, it was decided that there was no jury tampering that existed. So the appeal had to go back through the process, and that's where we are now.
- [23:09]
B
He's a very skilled lawyer.
- [23:10]
C
Yeah. And he has a very expensive and skilled team of lawyers behind him that. And I always tell people this, not most defendants can afford these types of appeals and can afford to spend this amount of money and time on the appeal process, but they're doing it. So I have confidence in the system that his conviction is going to stick.
- [23:37]
B
Well, the underlying theme in this series has been women fighting the patriarchy, as you said. And so many of us think about, say, Erin Brockovich. Right. That series, even though she was not a reporter, but this was a woman who was taking a case to so many cases to court, and people saw her championing the underdog. And, you know, in this case, you know, there's a very strong element here about women. And that was something that was important to you.
- [24:00]
C
I gathered through the process of making the podcast. I connected with Erin Le Carr, who was a documentarian at the time and is still an amazing documentarian. And what I loved about her work specifically was that she could tell complicated true crime stories involving women and portray them for their humanity and all of the different angles and not just who killed them and what happened. You know, she always dug deep beyond that. So the series really highlights a lot of women, including Renee beach, the mom.
- [24:38]
B
Of the young woman who was killed in the boat accident.
- [24:40]
C
Right. Who was brave enough to file a lawsuit against Alex Murdock. I mean, a lot of People, I think, forget about that too. But I'm glad that the series highlights that I cared about this story because I was a younger girl and I could relate to Mallory Beach. And it's so important to have other voices in newsrooms that care about different people and different things than just what we're used to. The old.
- [25:03]
B
Yeah, the old system. I started off in this business when it was mostly men in the business, mostly white men in the business. And I remember seeing things change as women came in. I. What I love about this is that you worked for a small town paper and that has had such an impact on so many stories over the years. And sadly, of course, we're seeing newspapers fold left and right. You probably are hearing from young women. And I'm sure there may be some who are watching. There might be some who are listening to this podcast now who are interested in journalism and who are interested in pursuing these kinds of stories. And I'd love to know what you would say to them.
- [25:42]
C
Absolutely. I would just say, keep going and listen to your gut. I think that that was the biggest lesson that I learned in all of this, that my gut really told me so much with this story. And when I would block out the noise and block out all the voices of people saying that I was obsessive or that I cared too much or that I was too emotionally involved in this story, I did care and I was emotionally involved in this story. But that got me where I am. So also to young journalists, I would say, please care. Care about the stories that you cover. Care about the people that you cover. Cause it gets you further. And I believe that my passion for the people involved in this story really drove me to keep going.
- [26:27]
B
Well, it really made a huge impact. I mean, what started off as a small story became a huge story and made a big difference. Mandy Matney, such a pleasure to meet you and get a chance to chat with you. Congratulations on all the good work.
- [26:39]
C
Thank you so much. This was a wonderful interview.
- [26:41]
B
Oh, really, Really a lot of. Well, it's called the Murdoch Family Murders and you can stream it now on Disney and Hulu. Hulu is a division of Disney, which is ABC's parent company. Thanks to our listeners. We always appreciate your coming by.
- [27:03]
C
Morning.
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B
Zoe got donuts.
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C
Jeff Bridges, why are you still living above our garage?
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C
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A
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C
Oh, no, I'm not really prepared. I couldn't possibly at T Mob. We'll get the new iPhone 17 Pro on them. It's designed to be the most powerful iPhone yet and has the ultimate pro camera system.
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A
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C
Impressive.
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B
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C
Jeffrey, you heard them.
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B
T Mobile is the best place to.
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A
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C
Us with eligible traded in any condition.
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B
So what are we having for lunch?
- [27:44]
C
Dude, my work here is done.
- [27:46]
A
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