A (2:55)

Yeah, yeah. Small town Georgia for me. And I went to the University of Georgia. And viewers might be very curious about you. You've reported on these kinds of crime cases for a very long time. And I'm curious what captivates you about these cases? Because they can be pretty dark.

B (3:10)

They can be dark. And you definitely have to stay grounded in order to be able to cover some of these stories. I just feel for those investigators who have to go in and see what happened right after it happened. But I think something that really captures my attention about these is usually there is a struggle for justice in these cases. It's unfortunate that victims have to not only go through the loss of a loved one, they have to get people to help them. Sometimes to get the case solved, police have to work together with other people. So watching that all unfold and play out, that is the truly interesting part of these cases.

A (3:52)

Let's talk about the case of Regina Hicks, because when this was presented to me by the producers, I was just fascinated not only by how long it took to resolve the case, but the man who was involved in this case, Paul Hicks, who was her estranged husband, how he was implicated in this case. What were your first thoughts when you heard about it?

B (4:10)

This case got stranger and stranger the more that you learned about it. It was already so atypical that there had been this length of time that Regina Hicks's family was looking for justice. And then you have the person that people believed all along may have been involved with, essentially hiding in plain sight. And just the way that she died, her body being found in a pond underwater in this car that she loved. And it just seemed like at this point in her life, she had gotten a new lease on life and things were really looking up for her. And it just adds to this mystery of what happened to her and why did it happen like this?

A (4:52)

Yeah, yeah. And we'll talk about that car in a minute. But let's talk about the two of them. These two were high school sweethearts. The relationship soured. And so on October 18th of 2001, they shared a child together, a four year old boy named Montana. They had a pretty tumultuous relationship. So they had this meeting point where she was supposed to go pick up her son from Paul. They were separated at the time, and she didn't. Nobody heard from her after this. And, of course, there were alarm bells with her family. They knew that that was unlike her not to show up. What were their immediate fears in the beginning?

B (5:28)

Their initial concerns is that this was very unlike her. She would not just disappear and leave without her son that she loved so much. She had firm plans that day to go pick up her son, take him to her mother's house, and then go on a date with a new guy that she was dating. So for her to, in this very small window of time, go from on her way to meet up with Paul Hicks to then not being heard from again, Everyone was really fearing that something very bad had happened and that this was not something that was voluntary.

A (6:03)

Yeah, they were suspicious of him because their relationship, as I said, had been tumultuous. She had moved out. She was sort of moving on. He was moving on and had a new girlfriend. But they had had a bad relationship. Fighting money troubles, infidelity. Tell us a little bit more about their relationship that we didn't really get into in the piece.

B (6:21)

It really had started to disintegrate after the birth of their son. They were, as you said, fighting a lot. And there were these issues with infidelity. There was also problems with money. Now, their house burned down not too long before Regina disappeared. And this was a situation where most of the stuff inside of the house belonged to Regina. This was devastating for her to lose all of her things. And because their relationship was already so fractured, she decided this was the time to make the break. They had settlement money, right? That was it. That was the straw breaking the camel's back. And she took the settlement money that she split with Paul and was able to get her new car, get a new business with her uncle. But she also was going to be getting child support payments from Paul. And that was coming up due very soon.

A (7:17)

So she bought this new Camaro, a white Camaro. She was proud of the car. Her relatives talked about how people knew that was her car. That was kind of her baby. She was very excited. Then things kind of take a heartbreaking turn. Of course, four days after her disappearance, these two farmers and I got a chance to speak with the dad. When I was out there, these farmers see something in their pond. They get a chain and they try to pull it out and eventually discover that it is a car, a white Camaro. Police find her body in the car. Initially, they're thinking an accident, but then they see something kind of strange. And let's talk about that. She's in the passenger side of the car. I mean, it's horrifying scene already, but how in the world would she have been in the passenger side of the car?

B (7:58)

That body position was one of the biggest red flags for investigators, because you're thinking if someone drove into the car, whether accidentally or intentionally, they would be secured to the driver's side. They'd potentially be buckled in, and that would be where you'd find their body. And here she's on the passenger side, and it's not in a position where the medical examiner thinks she was trying to get out. It's just that that's the side that she was on when she went into the water. So that raised a lot of alarms for people in terms of she couldn't have gone in by herself. There likely was someone on the driver's side.

A (8:38)

Yeah. And what was so surprising to me when I was out there talking to folks is that, you know, the idea that. I mean, it raised red flags, but it didn't point to anybody in particular. People suspected Paul might have been involved, but he offered an alibi. And. And so time goes on, and no arrests are made, and her family is just despondent. They're upset. They have a funeral, but they have no answers. And then years go by, and, of course, as I said, the state gets involved with these new investigators. And I had a chance to speak with a BCI agent, Doug Burke, who took me to that pond to tell me a little bit about what they saw. All these years later. He's pointing out how he thinks the car might have gone into the pond. And he was convinced either someone drove it there or jumped out and made sure it was pushed into the pond. He was convinced that that was how it happened. And what really shocked me, Julia, was he took me to an impoundment lot and showed me something that was pretty chilling. The actual car, which is still preserved all these years later. I got a chance to see this car. He opens the door. There's all this mud there. You know, there's mold in it now, as you might imagine, but it's still kind of intact. I mean, it was almost like some kind of a tomb. You know, there are magazines in there. There are all the things that were there when she had the car. So they begin looking, and this is what gave me goosebumps. He shows me the imprint of her shoe that would have scraped the side of the door. And he shows me her actual boots that she was wearing that night that are caked in mud, but that Was that was critical because that showed them that she was placed inside that car. And that was critical in this investigation, wasn't it?

B (10:18)

You know, as devastating as all that information is, just hearing that it was so well preserved goes to what this case is. It was preserved all of these years, 20 years later, for them to finally get to justice. But, yeah, just hearing about the mud and where it was in the car, the medical examiner found that mud inside of her pants and inside of her undergarment. So they got all of these details. But that airtight alibi that her husband had just left them with, with no suspect.

A (10:51)

Yeah, with more questions. And police had questions at the time. And then we fast forward to later, as you said, in 2001 or so, at that time. But then later on, when the new investigators get involved, they, of course, now pick up where those questions left off, and they start questioning people who had been closest to him. Paul had this really good friend, and they questioned those folks. But Paul, as we said, had an alibi. But one thing that was interesting, he had filed for divorce and custody, full custody of their son just 24 hours after Regina was missing. I mean, that had to have been suspicious to everybody, right?

B (11:28)

It had to have been. And, you know, it had to have been to Regina's family. If you hear that someone just a day after they disappeared, they're filing for divorce. That is pretty shocking. But I do look at this even as a lawyer, and I can see both sides. Most of these family law cases, they take time to develop. Their relationship was deteriorating. They were talking about divorce. And here, on this day where she doesn't come to pick up her child, she could have had the excuse that it's time for me to go ahead and make this final. This is the straw for him, the final straw. So I can see how that may not have been definitive evidence for investigators at that point.

A (12:09)

Of course, everybody was asking questions. Who would want Regina dead once they knew that she looked a little unusual, the way she was placed in the car. But there was no DNA evidence, no security camera footage, no tracking devices to help connect the dots. Well, when we come back, you're going to want to hear more. We're going to give you in depth details into this investigation. So stay with us. This show is sponsored by Quince. They say good fashion is about being intentional with what you wear day to day, choosing pieces that feel effortlessly comfortable and still put together. Well, that's why so many people seem to love shopping with Quince. Quince makes it easy to refresh your everyday wardrobe with pieces that feel as good as they look. They use premium materials like 100% European linen, organic cotton and ultra soft denim, and everything at quints is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. Their lightweight linen pants, dresses and tops start at just $30. So if you're ready to start your spring on the right foot, you can't go wrong with a stylish new wardrobe from Quince. Refresh your everyday with luxury you'll actually use. Go to Quince.com 20ABC for free shipping and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Quincom Twent y ABC for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quints.com 20abc 2020 is partnering with Vibes

C (13:50)

open ear wireless headphones. That's Vybz. If you listen to a lot of True crime, you probably like to listen with a good pair of headphones. But it can be tricky to find a pair that provides great sound quality. That's not too overwhelming because when you're out with a podcast during a late night dog walk or pre dawn run, you don't necessarily want noise cancellation that blocks out the sounds around you. That's why you'll want to get yourself a pair of Vibes, your perfect companion in audio. They're designed for maximum comfort with ultra lightweight earbuds that sit just outside the ear canal, and they offer crystal clear audio. So no matter what you're listening to, whether it's your favorite song or a sound rich True crime podcast, it'll come across loud, clear and silky smooth. The battery lasts up to 10 hours per charge and they come in a range of sleek, modern colors and styles. So what are you waiting for? Order now. And you'll be listening to better sound with better headphones before you know it. For a limited time, our listeners can get more than 60% off a pair of Vibes wireless headphones. Just go to abcsecretsavings.com 2020 Again, that's abcsecretsavings.Com 2020abcsecretsavings.com 2020.

A (14:57)

Hello, welcome back to 2020 the After Show. I'm speaking with Court TV legal correspondent Julia Genay, who helped us with our report on our most recent 2020 episode called the Secret in the Water. Police suspected foul play Julia but didn't have a suspect. Okay, so this goes on. Her mother is just advocating her mother gets sick and even passes away. She never gets any answers. Then in another town, a small town about 150 miles away, there's a major house fire. Well, firefighters were immediately suspicious of this scene. But guess what? The house was owned by Paul Hicks, who had been married to Regina Hicks, the woman who was found dead in that pond all those years before.

B (15:41)

His home catches on fire, and he is certain that it is an arson. He calls police and says, I'm a victim of intentional igniting of my house, intentional burning down of this place that I live sometimes. He didn't live there all of the time, but it was a home that he owned.

A (15:58)

One thing that was kind of interesting is that Paul actually showed up at the scene and he helped police retrieve that security video from the DVR system. And this is the part that really got me, because when our producers told me about this, this video, and he can see these people, and there's a woman in the video who seems to look like another one of Paul's ex. He had had a child with her by the name of Kelly. And it's appeared to be two arsonists here in this video. And, you know, he's right. He right away identifies this woman, Kelly. He tells, you know, authorities that Kelly was trying to get revenge on him after a breakup. And this is back in 2015. We have to always remember today we're looking at cameras all over the place, surveillance cameras all over the place. But this is 11 years ago. Things were a little different then.

B (16:46)

Right? 2015, things just weren't as clear. It's kind of hard to believe that things have gotten so much better in a short amount of time. But the way our cameras are now, the way we can see things on ring and different home videos, that wasn't the case back then. You didn't have a ring camera on every door. And surveillance videos didn't really give you that crisp video. But this video that he did provide to police, he helped them to download it from his system. It shocked me. I couldn't believe how deliberate it seemed that the woman in the video was that she wasn't trying to hide her face.

A (17:25)

Yeah, talk about that. She was looking at the camera, looking

B (17:28)

dead at the camera. I mean, both eyes face up, as if she knows the camera is there. And you think these were two people who were trying to be surreptitious in the way that they got into this house and lit it on fire, that they'd be avoiding cameras or at least hat, a hoodie, something to cover their face. That wasn't the case for this woman with this, you know, really bold, curly hair. And she's again, Looking at the camera.

A (17:55)

Yeah. And she looks like Kelly, his ex. And so police are predisposed to believe Paul. He seems to be giving this. This. This true story. So then they go after Kelly. They arrest her at a grocery store in town, brought her in for questioning. Kelly was arrested for alleged damage of Paul's hot tub, but it wasn't connected to the arson. She's terrified because I had a chance to speak to her in our piece, and she talks about this ordeal that is still very devastating for her. I mean, this is a woman who's trying to move on, you know, with her life. She's been dating this man, and now she's broken up with him. He's the father of her child. She's almost, like, terrified and traumatized by him, anyway.

B (18:32)

And then she's arrested, arrested for something she is completely unaware of. So she's telling them, it's not me. It's definitely not me. But they say, we've got the surveillance video of someone that looks an awful lot like you. And you've got all of these reasons to potentially be upset with your ex because they are going through child custody issues, and Paul Hicks is about to come up due for child support payments.

A (19:00)

Well, she talks about how, you know, ultimately she had an alibi, thankfully, you know, she was with her mother. But she also talked about her relationship with Paul. She kind of shed a little light on the two of them. In our exclusive interview with us, she told us how she got to know him. And I'm gonna play a little bit of some of the interview that you didn't get a chance to see in Friday's episode here. Here's what she had to say about the night she first met Paul. Did he talk about his life before? Did he talk about previous relationships, girlfriends, wives?

D (19:30)

Actually, on our first date, he told me about his wife that passed away. He told me she passed away in a car accident.

A (19:36)

And what did you think about that?

D (19:37)

It was sad because he actually started crying. So of course I was sympathetic. Like, you know, oh, my gosh, that's horrible. You know, like this great guy, he lost the love of his life, the mother. That's what my thinking was at that time.

A (19:49)

So he led you to believe that he was a guy who was recovering from heartache?

D (19:52)

Yes.

A (19:53)

And he's now out in the world again. Did he present himself to you as somebody who you said he seemed to have his. But, you know, how did he carry himself when he's talking and all of that with you?

D (20:04)

You would think he knows how to talk to somebody and to where you could believe everything he's talking about, even lies, and people believe him.

A (20:12)

So he sort of exaggerated and boasted, oh, big time. So according to Kelly, Paul seemed to have this other side to him. I mean, she talked about him being charming, but he was sort of boastful. It would take two years, of course, for this investigation to go on after this fire had happened. And during that time, Paul had temporary custody of their son, which is heartbreaking. And many people were asking why. That's because she's arrested and it looks like that she's a danger, I guess. Right?

B (20:41)

Yeah. And that can, to a family court, say that she's not the better parent for the child to be with. And until you can get these charges dropped or no charges, but just this cloud of suspicion around her, she's in that tough situation. I mean, that's so hard to know that she dealt with that when it came to her child. And all of this. And it took so long for the investigation to play out, it actually really deepened because Paul sued his insurance company for denying his claim. And those civil investigators really went deep into this case for their insurance company. But ultimately it helped with what happened. The claim was denied, and the civil court deemed that he didn't have a claim for arson. He denied that he had any involvement in it, but they were able to determine, in terms of the criminal investigators, that Kelly was not the one who was responsible, and they cleared her of all charges. They did charge Paul with arson initially, but they did drop those charges in exchange for a plea deal where he received probation for insurance fraud.

A (21:54)

Yeah, yeah, he denied the allegations. He was charged with aggravated arson, perjury, and, as you said, insurance fraud. So in this case, yes, he did deny those allegations, and he actually took a plea deal. He didn't serve any time. Um, he pleaded no contest to the misdemeanor count of insurance fraud and was sentenced to three years. Um, as you said, those charges dropped. Does no time. And I want to talk with you more about that. Julia. Don't go anywhere. Because if you. You've heard that expression, where there's smoke, there's fire. Well, this arson investigation sparked a whole new prescriptive on Regina's murder. Twenty years later, this cold case was about to heat up. So when we come back, this case lands in court, and the testimony would change everything. We're going to tell you more about how Paul Hicks wound up in court and what happens. Don't go anywhere.

C (22:47)

You tell yourself no one wants your college era band tees but on Depop, people are searching for exactly what you've got. You once paid a small fortune for them at merch stands. Now a teenager who calls them vintage will offer that same small fortune back. Sell them easily on Depop. Just snap a few photos and we'll take care of the rest. Who knew your questionable music taste would be a money making machine. Your style can make you cash. Start selling on Depop where taste recognizes taste.

A (23:21)

Hi there everybody. Welcome back to 20 20, the After Show. I am here with Court TV's Julia Genay taking you through, I mean, what can only be described as twists and turns of our latest 2020 episode, the Secret in the Water that aired on Friday night. Julia I was struck by prosecutor Dan Casaris. He talked to me about how the case was circumstantial when they were looking at it. They didn't have anything to absolutely convict Paul of Regina Hicks murder. But there was Paul Hicks friend Steve Gates. And I had mentioned that he had a friend that he was with the night that Regina disappeared. And Gates had never really offered much that would help police when they were investigating. But now here we are 20 years later and he's got some things to say, right?

B (24:06)

He's got some major things to say. We're talking case altering things. Seed Gates was the alibi witness. He said that Paul was with him at the time, that Regina would have disappeared and that Regina never showed up at their house to pick up the son that Paul shared with Regina. So when you can't crack that alibi, that's really the reason that police stalled in this case, couldn't go any further. And Steve Gates, now 20 years later is contacted and he says I will tell you what I know if you give me immunity. And that's what changes everything.

A (24:48)

The prosecutor told me that he felt like Gates had just been eaten up by all of this. You know, it was just so hard. He had carried this for so long. He finally unburdens himself, tells everything he knows, implicates Paul Hicks who then is arrested April 22, 2020, arrested for the murder of Regina Hicks, charged with three counts of murder, one count of kidnapping. And Steve Gates becomes the star witness. Tell us about him in the courtroom. And so he starts to tell everything he knows. Tell us about that courtroom appearance through this entire trial.

B (25:19)

The big question is what would Steve Gates say? Because he is the one change in evidence that prosecutors really have from all of those years ago. This is the only thing that's different about the case. And he takes the stand and he opts out of being on camera. So many people are unable to see what he said in the public. But we were able to get the documentation from inside of the courtroom to know that he tells a completely different story than he did 20 years ago. He's saying now that Regina did show up at his house where Paul was with his son, and that he noticed them out by the barn arguing. She's in her car. She gets out. She's talking to Paul. So he leaves and doesn't go around them for a little bit. But when he comes back, Regina is crumpled in the bottom of her car on the passenger side and that Paul is telling him she's dead and that they have to get in the car and drive away. Steve Gates gets in the car with the son and drives behind Paul with what he believes is Regina's dead body inside of you. Stephen Gates testified that he was driving in the car behind Paul Hicks, and he saw him drive Regina's car into the pond. And then he saw the tail lights go up, Paul getting out. He was completely muddy. And then he got into the car with them and told him, better keep your mouth shut. You're involved. And he makes a call to Regina's phone, leaves her a voice message saying, where are you? It's an unbelievable type of testimony in front of this jury.

A (26:56)

Yeah, yeah. He covers his tracks there, and he was able to do that for many years. But, of course, even though Gates had lied previously, the jury believed him. And In December of 2025, they found Paul Hicks guilty on all four counts related to Regina's murder. He was sentenced to 25 years to life. This man finally was held accountable for this murder. Kelly actually had an emotional reaction to how all this played out. Here's a little bit more of my interview that you didn't get a chance to see on Friday night. And then when you heard the verdict. Guilty.

D (27:32)

Oh, yeah, that was. Thank God. That was amazing.

A (27:36)

What was that moment like for you,

D (27:38)

Winning finally, my baby's coming. My baby's home. We're safe. He's where he belongs. He's gonna be where he belongs.

A (27:47)

Was there any hint of sympathy for Paul in your heart? I mean, with all of this going on, this is the man who's the father of your child. Did you feel any sadness at all about this conviction, or were you simply just relieved?

D (28:02)

I was relieved. But the only small bit was of the person I thought he was. But then I know that's not him. So he's where he belongs. He's a threat to everyone on the street. So.

A (28:14)

And tell me about that. The person you thought he was versus the person you discovered he was.

D (28:19)

Oh, I thought he was one of her. Amazing. He said, fun, charismatic. And then come to find out what he became, that I knew him as controlling, so dark.

A (28:36)

Julie There were so many people impacted by this story over the years. And as we said, Regina and Paul's son, Montana, he's now a grown man to have his mother murdered by his father. His victim impact statement was read in the courtroom. He didn't want to come personally. He had it read by a victim advocate. And he was a guy who seemed to be sort of walking the line, saying that he didn't believe his father should be punished, but whoever did this should be punished. What a difficult place for. For this young man. He's lost his mother and now, of course, he's lost his father.

B (29:12)

Impossible situation for him to be in. And he's lived his entire life being raised by his father and his father. No doubt saying your mother went into the pond on her own. That's what Paul Hicks told the investigators. So it's likely that that's what he believed for a good portion of his life. His impact statement, though, was he made sure the court knew that he was the most impacted victim in all of this. Losing his mother in that way. You could tell it was still devastating to him through his words. And he said that he wanted the judge to sentence his father to mental health treatment if anything. That, of course, did not happen. But very interesting that he chose that language in his impact statement.

A (29:59)

Regina's family really seems to be, I guess, relieved. Still crushed, but relieved that they did find justice after all these years. As you said, Julia, it's a fascinating story. You brought such depth and insight into this story as you always do with our pieces here at 2020. So we so appreciate your doing that and for being with us here. And maybe one of these days you'll be here in the studio and we can sit across from each other.

B (30:23)

I hope so. I look forward to it, Deborah.

A (30:26)

And thank you all for being with us for this podcast episode. You can watch all of our 2020 episodes, of course, the latest ones on Friday nights on abc and you can stream episodes like this one anytime on Disney plus and Hulu. Hope you have a good day and thanks for being with us.

B (30:47)

Ryan Reynolds here from IT Mobile. I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same Premium Wireless for $15 a month plan that I've been enjoying. It's not just for celebrities. So do like I did and have one of your assistant's assistants. Switch you to Mint Mobile today. I'm told it's super easy to do@mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment of $45 for 3 month plan equivalent to $15 per month required intro rate first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees, extra fee full terms@mintmobile.com when

A (31:18)

it's time to scale your business, it's time for Shopify.

B (31:22)

Get everything you need to grow the way you want. Like all the way. Stack more sales with the best converting checkout on the planet. Track your cha chings from every channel right in one spot and turn real

A (31:36)

time reporting into big time opportunities. Take your business to a whole new level. Switch to Shopify.

B (31:43)

Start your free trial today.