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- [00:00]
Narrator/Advertiser
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- [00:24]
Deborah Roberts
Welcome to 2020 the After Show. I'm Deborah Roberts and as always, it is really a pleasure to have you here with us. And as we take a deep look at a 2020 episode that we have covered, as you all know, we always take a deeper dive into some of those details that you learned about on a Friday night. Well, our most recent episode called Yogurt Shop Murders, is a notably chilling story that just made headlines for really more than 30 years. It goes back to December 6, 1991, when four teen girls were brutally murdered. I mean, just in a way that just almost hard to describe at a yogurt shop in Austin, Texas. The victims were sisters, Sarah and Jennifer Harbison, who were 17 and 15 at the time. Eliza Thomas, a friend of theirs who was 17, and Amy Ayers, who was only 13 years old when she was murdered. These girls were found bound, sexually assaulted and shot. It was just something that was beyond imagination. And then afterwards, the shop was set on fire, obviously in an attempt to cover the, the grisly crime, to cover up all the evidence. And the case just left the community heartbroken and as you might imagine, a police force just struggling to try to solve this case along the years as they began to investigate. And I say years because this case did take years to solve. There were false confessions, there were dead ends. And then thanks to a team that just would not give up, ultimately a killer was identified, but it was 34 years later. Well, if you saw our 2020 episode, you know, our story centered around exclusively, by the way, interview with Mindy Montford, who is a former Assistant Texas Attorney General who really helped crack this case. Mindy is here with us now to share some details about this case. Mindy, it is such a pleasure to have you.
- [02:13]
Mindy Montford
Thank you, Deborah. I'm very happy to be here. And thank you for the coverage you've given this case.
- [02:17]
Deborah Roberts
Oh, my goodness, of course. I mean, it's one of those that people have been talking about for a long time. I wish you and I could be together in person. But I know you're working on lots of things out there in Texas. But let's just start off with the case to begin with because you worked tirelessly on this along with other investigators, of course. But when you came into the case, people had essentially kind of given up on it being solved, really. But you wanted to just jump right into this because it kind of resonated with you. Why was it that this case touched something in you just off the start?
- [02:49]
Mindy Montford
Well, I actually have been in Austin, Texas, since 1976 and grew up in that neighborhood. I've been to North Cross Mall. I've been to the yogurt shop. That is a neighborhood that it was a community. And when this happened, I remember I was in college and seeing the news coverage of my neighborhood, you know, this horrific crime. I mean, back then, too, if you recall, we would walk everywhere. As a kid, you didn't even have a phone. Your parents trusted you on a bike for hours. So that was the environment we grew up in. And then to just fast forward, be in college, seeing this on tv, unfolding in my community, it was horrible.
- [03:29]
Deborah Roberts
Yeah.
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Mindy Montford
Then over the years, just following the case and going through law school, then I became a prosecutor. But watching what these families went through, through the justice system repeatedly, and just being victimized over and over again by the system, I just. It really broke my heart for them. And I always had an interest in the case.
- [03:47]
Deborah Roberts
Yeah. And when you think about it, these girls were just a little bit younger than you were, because you're right there in college thinking about, you know, somebody who could be your age. You touched on something when you talked about those innocent times of kids, you know, just walking around and riding their bikes and in this case, just hanging out at a yogurt shop. Right. Two of the girls worked there. In our episode, somebody described this as the day that Austin lost its innocence. And you could see that that was what happened. I mean, this tragedy really impacted the community in a huge way.
- [04:17]
Mindy Montford
I don't think we've ever been the same since. It just was. When you talk to anybody in Austin, Texas, and if you say, you know, like, years ago, I would say, oh, I'm a prosecutor. Oh. Have you ever heard of the, you know, the yogurt shop murders? I mean, it was just. Everybody knew about this case, and we were a small community back then, not so much today, but it really did change. It changed us. It just did not make sense. It just changed our community. It really did.
- [04:42]
Deborah Roberts
I can imagine. And I've covered so many of these stories, and we often do when, you know, they're in a fairly small town and Austin, as you said, is sort of bustling now. But, you know, people really did feel very safe and sort of protected. And so when this kind of thing happens, it shakes you. Let's talk about those, those four girls, Sarah, Jennifer, Eliza and Amy, as I said, doing something so innocent. A couple of the girls worked at the yoga shop. They're all just there kind of hanging out and their lives were viciously cut short. And I think in some ways that is what haunted this community more than anything else. I mean, any horrible crime is a horrible crime. But in this case, young, I mean,
- [05:20]
Mindy Montford
basically babies, babies, people who could be your next door neighbors, your sisters, your daughters, your friends. And the fact that it was something like you mentioned, so innocent. I mean, what's more innocent than having an extra job and hanging out with your friends, waiting for closing, you know, to go have a sleepover from the yogurt shop, of all places. And you know, it's just, I think you're right. I think the fact that it was a yogurt shop, their ages, the fact that there were multiple victims, the way they were murdered and it just, again, this just didn't happen in Austin, Texas back then.
- [05:52]
Deborah Roberts
Yeah, well, it was in the 90s. So you come along later on 2017, you joined this case and as you said, we can talk more later about what you brought to the case from your expertise, but talk to me a little bit about when you joined the case and what you learned from the families because they had been through the wringer over, you know, more than two decades at that point. Almost three decades and no answers really. I mean, a lot of twists and turns which we'll get to. But what, what would the families like for you to meet at that time?
- [06:19]
Mindy Montford
I remember that vividly that day. And I think I even called my, my father actually had been a long a prosecutor back in the 70s. And I remember calling him and telling him this had been one of the best days of my career, that the fact that I've met these families who I've just followed throughout the years and been, you know, had my heart broke for them and then to think that I'd go from a college room watching this news coverage to actually working on the case, you know, in 2017, that was just full circle for me. I was just so honored to be included in the meeting. And then, you know, as the meeting progressed, the district attorney Margaret Moore at the time said, look, we're going to, not only are we going to keep investigating this case and, and fight till the end and try to get you answers, but I'm going to assign my first assistant, Mindy Monford, to, to lead the team and not, you know, so that was just. I didn't even see that coming, by the way. She didn't tell me that before the meeting.
- [07:16]
Deborah Roberts
Otherwise you might have been more nervous than you were, probably, to begin with. I. Yeah, well, you were. You were held up as somebody who was going to take a fresh look at the case. But it's just really astounding to me. There were false confessions which implicated four young men. And let's talk about them. Robert Springsteen, Forrest Welburn, Michael Scott, and Maurice Pierce. And various ones had been arrested and either convicted, but then the cases had been dismissed. Tell us a little bit about how police had to deal with all of that over the years.
- [07:46]
Mindy Montford
I know, Deborah, we may need, like, five episodes. Yeah, yeah. I tell you what, this case, I mean, a lot of cases have, you know, a crazy appellate system and legal history, but this one really takes the cake because not only did you started out, you had false confessions, not just from the individuals who ended up getting charged ultimately, but we had confessions from, I mean, two people from Mexico that recanted. You know, the details didn't add up. Then you had all these people from the mall, you know, this mall crowd, this high school group, and they were all giving, you know, incriminating statements. And just. And then later would, you know, recant polygraph and recant and say, oh, I just did it because I had a. He made me mad hit on my girlfriend. Right. You know, I mean, it just went on and on. And when you read the police report, it is. It is so hard to read because it just keeps going in circles. I mean, there's just so many twists and turns. But then, yes, you ultimately end up with Maurice Pierce actually flashing his.22 gun around the mall. And that's the same caliber. One of the guns that was used in the yogurt shop was.22. They were each shot with the.22. And then Amy had a second shot with the.380. But he was bragging about that and making comments. And so people then start calling the police and, you know, giving tips to this. And so then Maurice is interviewed and. And then he implicates the other three.
- [09:12]
Deborah Roberts
Right.
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Mindy Montford
And that's what sort of turned law enforcement on initially. But when Maurice Pierce gives his statement, originally, one of the detectives comes in and reviews it and says, no, this just does not add up. You know, and by the way, the gun, they tested the gun, and it was inconclusive. So they basically let Maurice Pierce go. And in the report, initially, it says is cleared as a suspect.
- [09:34]
Deborah Roberts
Yeah.
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Mindy Montford
And then, of course, years later, years
- [09:36]
Deborah Roberts
later, they would come back. They would come back and look at them. And we talk about that in the piece, how police would circle back around to this crowd. They were making no progress, no arrest. What's a little frightening about this, though, is that two people were convicted and one of them could have been put to death because of this. Let's talk about that. Because Robert Springsteen was actually eventually tried and sentenced to death. Michael Scott was sentenced to life in prison. And everybody seemed to think the case was solved. I mean, they were convicted, and the family even sort of, I guess, finally breathed a sigh of relief. Right?
- [10:09]
Mindy Montford
Yes, yes, I think that's very fair to say. They were convinced that there were these two confessions that were taken separately, separate cities by different investigators. And the statement seemed to have incriminating information that was consistent in both of those statements. And so ultimately, the judge found that those were admissible in court. And then you had two separate juries review those confessions, spend hours on those confessions, and then deliberate and they found them both guilty in separate juries.
- [10:40]
Deborah Roberts
Yeah. So that, that goes on and everybody thinks that this case has been solved. And sadly, you know, maybe that's the end of it. So the Texas appeals court then overturns both Scott and Springsteen's convictions because of some technicalities about cross examining witnesses. And at that point, of course, we didn't have modern DNA like we do right now, but the charges ultimately against all of these folks would be dismissed. You know, one man could have been put to death and clearly the wrong people were behind bars. That was also difficult for the family, too. We talk about in our piece in 2020, you know, having thought that this case was put to rest, and now they don't know what to believe.
- [11:19]
Mindy Montford
No, that's. That's exactly right. And, and I think if you talk to the families today, they'll even tell you with this new information, they don't quite know if they should believe it because they believed this other information for so long. But I think they felt that with two different juries returning verdicts of guilty, that they had the right guys. And I believe, you know, that they did believe that they had the right
- [11:40]
Deborah Roberts
people, but the court did say that it was not. But these were not the right people.
- [11:45]
Mindy Montford
Well, actually, the, you know, it's even more traumatic for the families because the first thing that happened was the Supreme Court, actually the United States Supreme Court changed its ruling saying that you had to be a certain age before you'd be eligible for death row. And that's why Springsteen's was commuted to life. So that was the first thing that happened, where the families, you know, had to deal with him getting commuted to life. And then the second thing that happened was another Supreme Court hearing which was talking about the confessions themselves. And so any. Any trial in America that had taken place where you put a co defendant's confession against the other co defendant without putting the co defendant on the stand, that was remanded to have a new trial. And that's. That's what happened here. So again, it's. It's chipping away. You know, bit by bit, they just kept getting the, you know, this more bad news to the families. Of course, they're sitting there thinking, you know, where's the justice in this? Now we have to go through another set of trials. And it was at that point that the prosecution decided we didn't have DNA. Back when we had the first trials, maybe with new technology, as you mentioned, we might be able to get something.
- [12:53]
Deborah Roberts
Yeah. So ultimately all of these folks were dismissed. And there was just recently a hearing that formally cleared all of their names. What was your reaction?
- [13:03]
Mindy Montford
I think, you know, I've spent so much time on this case now, and I know the evidence against Robert Brashears, and I do not find any evidence at this point that Robert Brashears had any contact with the original individuals who were charged. And so therefore, I felt it was the right thing to do.
- [13:21]
Deborah Roberts
And Beshears is a name that's going to factor later on. We'll talk a little bit, but I want to hear from you because I'm sure our listeners and viewers out there will want to know, when you think about false confessions, why would anybody confess? And why would anybody even try to implicate themselves into a heinous crime, which you could wind up going to prison for life or possibly, you know, being put to death? I mean, that is something that nobody can really understand.
- [13:45]
Mindy Montford
I still can't understand it, Deborah. I. That is the one thing that I. It just causes me pause all the time because I'm thinking, why would you implicate yourself? Why would you do this? But we know it happens because now we do have DNA, and, and we've seen so many cases that have been cleared and individuals have been exonerated. Thank God for DNA. Or because other people come forward and provide new evidence, or maybe someone confesses, a jailhouse confession. But we know it happens.
- [14:15]
Deborah Roberts
Yeah. And in this case, too, when we talk about the individuals here, there was a lot of interrogation and all of that. You call it the Nostradamus Effect.
- [14:24]
Mindy Montford
I can't take credit for that, but I have been struggling with this idea of false confessions. And I ended up talking to Vern Pearson who's an elected district attorney out in California. And he's actually become quite the expert on false confessions. And he goes and he speaks at different trainings for prosecutors and detectives so that they can see how this can happen. And he actually is the one who, he said it could happen for a lot of reasons. But one of the things is what he calls the Nostradamus effect. You know, Nostradamus made thousands of predictions and if you just put one set of facts into one of those, you know you're going to get it right.
- [15:01]
Deborah Roberts
You're bound to find something that's going to be true.
- [15:03]
Mindy Montford
Exactly. That's going to be. Or, you know, corroborate your evidence.
- [15:06]
Deborah Roberts
Yeah, yeah.
- [15:07]
Mindy Montford
Give a 50, 50 shot that it was, you know, you know, a gun versus a knife. Right. I mean, so, you know, it's things like that. Yeah, the Nostradamus effect.
- [15:17]
Deborah Roberts
And it does happen too. You're absolutely right. We've heard about that over the years. Well, you hit on something that I want to talk about more DNA, which played a pivotal part in solving this case after 30 years. So, Mindy, don't go anywhere because I want to talk more about that one of the victims they were actually able to extract some DNA from and then actually using modern technology make a big difference in this case. So we want to talk about that. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by Quince. Quince is the way to shop for quality over quantity. They make essentials with elevated fabrics, thoughtful cuts and sensible pricing. From the lightweight cotton cashmere sweaters to the 100% European linen pants, Quince is all about well made comfort, wardrobe staples you're going to reach for over and over again. As we roll into spring, it's the perfect time to refresh your wardrobe with pieces that will make an impression. Whether it's already sunny where you are or still a bit chilly like it is here in New York. Quince clothing is designed to hold up for the changing seasons. Right now, go to quint.com 20ABC that is 20tw y ABC for free shipping and 365 day returns. That's a full year to wear it and love it. And you will now available in Canada too. Don't keep settling for clothes that don't last. Go to quints.com 20ABC for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quints.com 20ABC 2020 is partnering with Vibes
- [16:59]
Narrator/Advertiser
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- [18:10]
Deborah Roberts
Welcome back to 2020 the After Show. I'm talking with Mindy Montfort, who is a former cold case prosecutor. She helped solve a case that seemed to be unsolvable in Austin, Texas over the years. It was called Yogurt Shop. Four young girls who were just brutally murdered. And Mindy, it's just so great to talk to you about this because many of the cases that we talk about turn on DNA and even when they're old cases, and people are often surprised by that because when you apply modern. But that made such a big difference in this case. Everything evolved over the years. And the family, of course, is in limbo, or the families, because we're talking two sisters and then two other girls. So three sets of families here. And you got to know the families really well over time. You know, you had to gain their trust. You're working to solve these murders. Give me a sense of what that was like for you. You grew up knowing about this case and now you're talking and working with the families. What was that like for you and for them as you all made this connection?
- [19:09]
Mindy Montford
Well, it was surreal coming Full circle. As someone who lived in the community, grew up in that community, in that neighborhood, and then to watch the footage in college and then find myself as a prosecutor later in life, working on the case, it was an incredible opportunity. I was humbled to even be a part of it. And I instantly had a connection with the Ayers family. That's who we met with the first time I got involved in the case in 2017.
- [19:38]
Deborah Roberts
Their daughter was the youngest one, 13 years old.
- [19:41]
Mindy Montford
Right. Amy Ayers. And I believe. I'm not. I'm probably not overstating this. I believe we have talked, emailed, communicated, I would say on a weekly basis, maybe every other week since that meeting in 2017. I mean, even if it was just an email to check in, we've stayed in touch and stayed close. Yes. Yeah.
- [20:03]
Deborah Roberts
You formed a real bond with these families, and this family in particular. Well, let's talk about the cold case unit, because that was what sort of turned this whole thing around. Many states have started these cold case units, but this one started, and you had a lot to do with that. Was it because of your memories and your connection to this case?
- [20:20]
Mindy Montford
I think so. I'm going to say yes, because there were several reasons. One, we learned we actually met with the Golden State Killer investigation team to sort of triage the yogurt shop murders at one point. And we learned about all the resources that were available outside of Austin, Texas. And we thought, if we didn't know about these experts in these private labs, how does Corpus Christi know? How does Lubbock know, you know, and why isn't this more of a statewide resource? And so at some point, we came up with a pitch, and we thought that the Attorney General's office would be a really good place to have a unit because it covers. It has statewide jurisdiction. You have prosecutors in that office, appellate prosecutors in the office, and then criminal investigators. So what a better place than to have it, you know, in the AG's office.
- [21:10]
Deborah Roberts
Yeah. And then to start connecting the dots with all of these different places.
- [21:13]
Mindy Montford
That's right. And to really be able to serve as a resource for the whole state and to be able to connect, like you said, experts, labs, different cities with each other with different, you know, cases that might be similar. And so we went and made this pitch along with the heirs. The heirs came to the meeting with the Attorney General's office, myself, and then the sergeant of the Austin Police Department cold case unit at the time, and we did a PowerPoint. And I'll never forget, you know, at the very End the heirs looked at this room full of suits, and they said, look, this may not help our case, but if it helps one family, then it's worth it.
- [21:52]
Deborah Roberts
So they were still hanging in there, if nothing else, just for the impact. So, of course, you're teaming up with others, and you've got to deal with law enforcement when you're doing this. And about a year later, Detective Dan Jackson gets involved in the case. Talk a little bit about his work on the case and the two of you working together.
- [22:07]
Mindy Montford
Sure. That. That was a great moment. And I knew that Dan was going to be taking a look at this case from a different viewpoint. And he did know about the case. He also grew up here in Central Texas, and he remembered it as, you know, as a young boy. And, you know, I do want to say, over the years, the Austin Police department has had several dedicated detectives to this case, and they were amazing. And, you know, I can't say enough great things about the resources that they devoted, but as you know, with departments, people get promoted.
- [22:40]
Deborah Roberts
Yeah. Folks are in and out. Right.
- [22:42]
Mindy Montford
So when Dan Jackson comes on, the heirs are very, very skeptical because, as they put it, this is, you know, number 242 on the case. You know, when you look at all the different people who've worked from the police department on the case, and Dan basically told them, I'm gonna work hard and I'm gonna be the last detective on this case.
- [23:04]
Deborah Roberts
And they're thinking, yeah, we've been there and done that and seen that. And, you know, and understandably, because they've had no answers, and it is sort of remarkable that they would hang in there and keep trying to see change. Right. You're bringing a fresh set of eyes, the two of you. And a lot of the stories that we've covered on 2020 turn on that somebody new who has come into office who suddenly sees something a little different, maybe looking at the same evidence everybody else has, but sees it differently. What struck you, too, when you began to look? I mean, again, as you said, the DNA evidence was not compelling in terms of not having anybody to connect it to. So what evidence really struck you?
- [23:39]
Mindy Montford
Dan and I both knew when he came on board. I told him, you know, look, we've got this. And he knew, but it was, you know, this Y profile, which is a male, unknown male profile that was from the crime scene, a vaginal swab from Amy Ayers. And that was the one, by the way, that that was the reason when it didn't match to the original four suspects, that the DA's office had to dismiss the case. You cannot take a case like that to trial when you have an unknown profile and expect a jury to come back with a burden, not a reasonable doubt, that you just can't do it. Right. That definitely gives them reasonable doubt. And so we knew before we could move forward on this case again, we had to figure out whose profile that was. And the problem with that, of course, is, you know, that's what we. We'd been stuck. We'd been stuck for years trying to figure that profile out. So I think when Dan came on board, we basically said, okay, number one, we both agree we've got to figure out whose DNA.
- [24:34]
Deborah Roberts
Whose DNA is the same.
- [24:36]
Mindy Montford
Yeah. Whether it's a customer, an employee, a first responder, or a suspect, we've got to figure out whose DNA that is. The other thing we thought was, we have focused on that for so long that why aren't we going back and looking at all the evidence and seeing, okay, now it's, you know, 2022, 2023. Maybe technology has changed enough that we could go back and retest some of those items.
- [25:02]
Deborah Roberts
You looked at an old shell casing, and then there's something called the NIBIN system that you utilized in the case.
- [25:07]
Mindy Montford
That's right. The NIBIN system is that basically it's. It's like you hear CODIS for DNA, a database, a national database. NIBIN is for ballistics, so for shell casings and guns. And it's, you know, supposed to connect firearms to different crime scenes after they're uploaded by law enforcement.
- [25:24]
Deborah Roberts
Okay. So you're looking at all of this, and now you've, you know, you're sort of onto something that's a little bit more modern in terms of the way you can look at this evidence. And then in summer of 2025, you get a phone call that changes everything. A match all the way in South Carolina. Right.
- [25:42]
Mindy Montford
Well, we had two crazy phone calls. The first was when the NIBIN hit came back to an unsolved case in Kentucky. And at first we were thinking, okay, well, anybody could maybe steal a gun or sell a gun. This doesn't necessarily mean it's connected to yogurt shop. But when we read the police report from the Kentucky case, the Lexington, Kentucky case, it put chills in us because it literally involved a strip center, a business in a strip center. A woman had been shot in the head with a.380. She was naked from the waist down. And then they set the place on
- [26:20]
Deborah Roberts
fire, which is exactly what had happened with the yogurt shop murders.
- [26:23]
Mindy Montford
I couldn't get on a plane to Lexington fast enough with the police. I was like, let's go tomorrow. You know, we've got to figure out more about this case. And so we. That was our first, you know, aha. Oh, my gosh. The first phone call. Then that basically led Dan Jackson to say, well, wait a minute. You know, we have not done a national request for local crime labs to run our DNA. Our YSTR, our male profile, that was unknown. In 2019, we had asked for crime labs across the country to do what's called a manual keyboard search, where they actually manually enter the DNA components.
- [27:04]
Deborah Roberts
Yeah, very time consuming.
- [27:05]
Mindy Montford
Maybe it matches. Yeah, very time consuming. And a lot of labs don't have the time to stop and do it for you. So it's really kind of a Hail mary. But in 2019, we had done that and not had any results. But here we are with this NIBIN lead now, and Dan thought, you know what? Let's do it again. Let's try it again, have another request. So that goes out and. And we get this hit to South Carolina, and then we can't find out a name or anything about it for three weeks while legal figures out if they can release it to us.
- [27:35]
Deborah Roberts
But meanwhile, you know, something is happening. Something is percolating here, which is so amazing when you think about it. It's all about trying and trying and trying again, and you just actually happen to hit pay dirt. Well, then ultimately, you hear the name Robert Brashears, and you Google and you start looking, and what are you learning about this guy? Because you talk about the one crime, and now suddenly you're gonna be looking at a lot of other crimes.
- [28:01]
Mindy Montford
It was crazy. I mean, the craziest thing is, when we were waiting for three weeks, I was told that it matched to a serial killer in South Carolina. So you mentioned Google. That's what I was doing. I was googling serial killers, and nothing came up on Robert Brushears. It was the strangest thing. So once we did get his name, we found out more about him. Our next question was, well, what was he doing in Texas? Does he have any Texas ties? And, of course, that would be the next crazy moment in this case when we found out two days after the yogurt shop murder, he was arrested in a stolen vehicle with a.380 trying to go into New Mexico. He was at the border in Texas and New Mexico and got stopped. And we knew. I mean, are you kidding? I mean, this has to.
- [28:48]
Deborah Roberts
He.
- [28:49]
Mindy Montford
It has to Be him.
- [28:50]
Deborah Roberts
That was a moment for you. The aha moment. You really. You knew at that point you had
- [28:53]
Mindy Montford
the person, you know, his M.O. once we were learning more about the crimes that they knew he had committed. And then to be in Texas two days after the yogurt shop, getting out of the state, and then to have a.380, you know, in his possession, it's going to be a real weird coincidence if it isn't him.
- [29:11]
Deborah Roberts
Yeah. At that point, you knew you had your killer. You go, you share the news with the families, actually in person, because you want to tell them. Once you feel like you've got this crime solved, that had to be a real moment for all of you.
- [29:27]
Mindy Montford
It was those moments, those flashbacks that you remember and you'll remember forever. One was the first meeting in 2017. And then, of course, it's where I was when we got to certain pieces of information about Brashears. And then, of course, a career highlight going and finally delivering the news. We had been. I mean, it was surreal that we. I couldn't believe we had to answer after all this time. I knew, you know, Deborah, I knew we would find it because we had DNA. And I always felt like one day technology, you know, would catch up and we'd figure it out. I just didn't know if I'd be alive. But I knew that you believed in it. I did.
- [30:06]
Deborah Roberts
So you. You finally get a match, you are convinced you've got your killer. And then devastating news, in a way, when it comes to sort of finding a day in court. Robert Brashears had died in 1999 in a standoff with police. So you, you know, you've got your person, but you don't really have the person to be able to bring into court. That had to be pretty. Pretty devastating.
- [30:27]
Mindy Montford
We knew that when we told the families that it was going to be a hit to them. You know, I do think, though, looking back on it, when we talked to Barbara and told her he was deceased, at first her reaction was, you know, oh, you know, dang it. But then she kind of came back and said, you know what? I don't think I could survive another trial. I don't think I could go through this again. So, you know, I think in a lot of these cold cases, sometimes we. I mean, a lot of times the perpetrator ends up being dead because the.
- [30:59]
Deborah Roberts
Because so much time has elapsed.
- [31:01]
Mindy Montford
That's right.
- [31:02]
Deborah Roberts
Yeah.
- [31:02]
Mindy Montford
But a lot of times the families just want the answers.
- [31:05]
Deborah Roberts
You know, in this case, you got not only an answer to that, but so many other things. Mindy, I want to continue talking about Brashears when we come back because what you learned about him was absolutely mind blowing about his past and also what his own daughter told us at 2020 about what it was like growing up the daughter of a serial killer. You're going to hear more about all of that, so don't go anywhere
- [31:32]
Mindy Montford
foreign.
- [31:35]
Deborah Roberts
It's the Paradise Podcast. I am your host, Ryan Michelle Bathet with my husband Sterling.
- [31:41]
Narrator/Advertiser
What's up?
- [31:42]
Deborah Roberts
Join us here on Hulu and Hulu on Disney where we'll discuss each episode with the cast and crew of Paradise. I'll be getting all the secrets from Dan Fogelman, James Marsden, Shailene Woodley, Julianne Nicholson and Sterling Kelby Brown. Paradise. The official podcast is now streaming and stream paradise on Hulu and Hulu on Disney for bundle subscribers. Terms apply. Welcome back to 20 20, the After Show. I am talking with Mindy Montfort, a former assistant Texas attorney general who was just pivotal in helping solve a cold case called the Yogurt Shop Murders. And it took the lives of four young girls, Sarah and Jennifer Harbison, Eliza Thomas and Amy Ayers. And Mindy says that she will never forget them or their parents. And Mindy, so much of what you did was skill. And then a lot of it too was sort of luck in the sense that you guys stayed on this case. You stayed on this case and DNA, modern DNA technology had changed so much. But once you began to learn that Robert Beshears had been in Texas, he had committed crimes very similar to what had happened in Austin before you began to learn more. I mean, this man's life had taken him really all over the country in a way. And just the other crimes and murders that he had committed were just absolutely, not only just heart wrenching, but mind blowing really.
- [33:08]
Mindy Montford
He I've never had a case quite like this, actually, when so much devastation, so many different offenses. His victims were so young and, you know, he would target the youngest victim. We do know that from some of the survivors that we've talked to. So it does make what he, what he did even more heinous. Also, the fact that he was so manipulative, he was not dumb at all. He was very smart. And for someone to evade authorities and stay out of jail as much as he did for all the crimes he did is pretty remarkable.
- [33:42]
Deborah Roberts
Yeah, it is pretty remarkable. And that happens a lot. And of course, we've covered, sadly, stories of other serial killers. He had been in prison for a while and then was out of prison. And, you know, he had this sort of checkered past of all of these crimes, as you said. I think you even said when he wasn't, you know, in prison, he was murdering and raping women. Ultimately, the Kentucky Police Department announced that Bershears was responsible for a 1998 homicide fire that was so similar to the yogurt shop. As we talked about, his daughter spoke with us, and she said something which I've heard before. I actually interviewed the daughter of the BTK killer years ago, and it was just another chilling story. And for her to have no idea that her father was in any way remotely a criminal. And she said he seemed like a nice, normal guy, and so did Bashir's daughter. Said that he was just kind of a typical, normal, you know, father. How common is that? I mean, you, as you said, you haven't experienced a lot of these intense cases like this, but the idea that they could just lead a fairly normal life, but yet have this other side to them that is just so volatile and vicious and heinous. What did you make of that?
- [34:50]
Mindy Montford
One of the, I think one of the things we're learning more and more about serial killers, and when you start looking at all of them, that is how they were able to blend in so well with society and to, you know, oh, my wife left her purse in the car. Can I use your phone? Right. And you look so charming and normal, and they let their guard down, and he was able to just barge his way in and manipulate situations. And I can only imagine, you know, what he must have said in the yogurt shop to gain their trust. And I know there's going to be other crimes out there, and that's what we're continuing to look at, because as you said, I don't believe for a minute that when he was out in the free world, and we don't have. We've got this big timeline, but there's gaps. And I don't believe for a minute
- [35:37]
Deborah Roberts
that he just took breaks suddenly in his killing spree. So you've actually.
- [35:43]
Mindy Montford
I think we're going to find more crimes.
- [35:44]
Deborah Roberts
Yeah. In fact, you've actually actively sent out bulletins asking other law enforcement areas and communities to start looking around to see if there may be something that sort of fits his pattern, haven't you?
- [35:55]
Mindy Montford
We have, and we're going to probably send another one out in the next week or two with even more information and targeting certain areas we know he. He operated.
- [36:03]
Deborah Roberts
Well, the big question many will ask, I mean, how a man like this can act alone. A person like this could do something so awful. And four young girls. And in other cases, there were other women, one after the other. Do you believe that he just did this and acted alone, or do you think over time he might have had an accomplice anywhere?
- [36:22]
Mindy Montford
That was one of the main questions that I had, and I still have. I mean, we're not going to know for sure until maybe we find a case where he did act with somebody. But everything we've seen up to date, he's been alone. The interesting thing, I think when I was trying to figure out how he could, you know, tie up and do this to four different young girls at the same time. The Memphis case, the Memphis, Tennessee case, where he actually let them live, that involved four women, and he was able to sweet talk his way in. And then, boom, he's holding a gun to them and gets them, you know, to tie themselves up. He pulls the phone cord out, ties another one up, and then asks, basically, who is the youngest here, and that's who. He sexually assaults the same. So you can only imagine. But he was able to do that without anyone else there for those four girls. And I'm sure that must. When I read that report, I thought, this is how the yogurt shop happened.
- [37:21]
Deborah Roberts
Well, manipulation and manipulation in youth, as you said, and innocence, all of those things that were stolen from these girls. You know, the families are so, so fortunate that they had you on their side, I have to tell you, you know, just tireless in the work that you did. And it's really pretty amazing, too, that you've managed to stay in touch with them and maybe sort of offer a little bit of solace to them in the sense that they, some of them at least, have built a friendship with you. I think it's so important when we cover these stories and we make it a point on 2020 to make sure we say the names of the victims, we bring to life the names in the lives of the victim. And in this case, we're talking Sarah, Jennifer, Eliza and Amy and their families. All are trying to make sure that their memory, their legacy, is honored. We see that so often. And the same is true in the case with these young girls as well.
- [38:10]
Mindy Montford
It's very true. And, you know, we. I go by the memorial even. Even during the investigation, when we would be stalling out and I'd be so frustrated, I would always stop, but I would go and get gas. It was out of my way, but it was right across from the yogurt shop. It just I kind of wanted to feel their presence or their spirits and say, am I crazy for continuing to, you know, give me something, give me some sign. And there's a little memorial there for them and sometimes I would just go touch it just to kind of give me strength. But after the case was over, going back there that day and being able to, and it was before we told the families and I was able to just put my hands on it and think, you know, the news that was about to break and how happy those families were going to be, well, to
- [38:54]
Deborah Roberts
finally learn the truth. And as I said, you, they're very fortunate to have had you on their side. You brought the truth. No matter how difficult it was, they did finally get some answers after all those years. Mindy, it is such a pleasure to get to talk to you and I'm looking forward to meeting you in person here at 2021 of these days. So we'll keep working on something maybe at some point down the road, I'm sure. And to our listeners and viewers, thank you for joining us as always for this podcast episode. And of course, remember, you can catch our latest 2020 episode on Friday nights on ABC and stream episodes like this one on anytime, on Disney plus and on Hulu. Thanks a lot and we'll look forward to seeing you all next time.
- [39:36]
Mindy Montford
Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile.
- [39:38]
Deborah Roberts
I don't know if you knew this,
- [39:39]
Mindy Montford
but anyone can get the same Premium
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Deborah Roberts
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Mindy Montford
required intro rate first three months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra.
- [40:04]
Deborah Roberts
See full terms@mintmobile.com ABC Wednesdays the Emmy
- [40:09]
Narrator/Advertiser
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- [40:11]
Deborah Roberts
This is a whole new chapter for me. No more sad story sack.
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Narrator/Advertiser
That's what I'm talking about.
- [40:15]
Deborah Roberts
I want both of our sacks to be fun.
- [40:17]
Mindy Montford
You two idiots are perfect for each other.
- [40:19]
Narrator/Advertiser
From executive producers of Ted Lasso and shrinking.
- [40:22]
Deborah Roberts
We were all a part of this victory. Now get those nachos out of the premium warmer nachos. Feels like there's more applause for the nachos than my speech.
- [40:31]
Narrator/Advertiser
The new season of Scrubs Wednesdays 8, 7 Central on ABC and stream on Hulu.