The Hand in the Window: Piece by Piece

Summary

Podcast Summary: "The Hand in the Window: Piece by Piece"

20/20 (ABC News), Episode 6 – December 10, 2025
Host: John Quinones

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Overview

This episode of 20/20’s "The Hand in the Window" unravels the final stages of the investigation and prosecution of serial killer Shawn Grate, detailing the aftermath for the victims' families and the Ashland, Ohio community. Detective Kim Major's pursuit of justice is at the episode's emotional core, as listeners are taken through Grate's confessions, the complexities of his trial, and the town’s journey toward healing after the horror he inflicted.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

A Community in Turmoil (00:54–03:59)

• Setting the Scene: The episode opens with Detective Kim Major recounting a Friday night football game, juxtaposing small-town normalcy with the dark burden of her investigation.
  • “I sat there, which was also surreal, seeing all the things around me… people are happy…just the whole thing.”
    – Kim Major (01:51)
• Family Realizations: Major’s son, Corbin, connects dots between a past overdose case and Grate's references to a hidden “fort,” sparking suspicion about a supposed accidental death’s true cause.
  • Corbin: “They found a girl there a while back… a woman that died of an overdose and they dumped her body there.”
    (03:15)

Uncovering Another Victim (03:59–09:22)

• Rebecca Lacey’s Death: Kim Major follows Corbin’s lead, confronts Grate in jail, and receives a chillingly direct confession.
  • Grate immediately responds, “Rebecca Lacey,” when asked about an unsolved case (07:40).
  • Major: "We have another victim." (07:53)
• Details of the Murder: Grate recounts meeting Lacey, a minor theft leading to violence, and ultimately murdering and dumping her body.
  • Major relays: “He said he had kneed her and punched her and that her face was bleeding. He said she fought him like a man. And he said he had strangled her.” (08:41)

The Last Interview and Ongoing Threats (09:22–14:12)

• Final Interrogation: Detective Major repeatedly interviews Grate, trying to ensure there are no more hidden crimes.
  • Grate: “This onion’s peeled all the way.” (10:14)
  • “I feel better now. I’m free.” (10:20, 10:23)
• Threats Against Major: A fellow inmate reveals Grate’s alleged desire to kill Major, targeting her as the female lead detective—heightening the danger and psychological toll.
  • Major, recalling the inmate's words: "He thought it would be the ultimate to kill me…" (11:17)
  • Grate, in response to having lingering violent desires: “Yeah, it’s probably worse.” (13:16)

The Trial of Shawn Grate (18:02–24:32)

• Grate’s Indictment & Trial: Grate is indicted and stands trial with the death penalty on the table.
  • Prosecutor Chris Tennell: "This is not a whodunit case. This is a he did it case." (18:55–19:00)
• Somber Atmosphere: Reporter Bob Jones highlights the gravity: "The moment when Jane Doe testified was a pivotal moment in the trial… she was very brave sitting up there on the stand talking about the terror that she went through." (20:04)
  • “She was tied up… she tried multiple times to get away… he videotaped the sexual assault…” (20:22–20:39)
• Plea Change: On the eighth day, Grate changes his plea to guilty on many charges to spare victims' families from further trauma.
  • Grate pleads guilty to rape and other charges, hoping to avoid showing the assault videos to the jury (as explained by the defense) (21:41–22:46).

Sentencing and Community Response (24:32–29:30)

• Victim Impact Statements: Powerful and emotional testimonies from the victims’ families.
  • Curtis Stanley: "You ever bury your mother?... I didn't expect that this young. I had to go in there and pick a casket out, and he made it to where I couldn't even have an open casket..." (26:22)
  • Gina Stanley: "This monster will pay for what he has done and I'm confident it will be with his life." (26:48)
• Death Sentence: Judge Ronald P. Forstoffel sentences Grate to death for the murders, plus 90 years for other charges.
  • "The court therefore finds that a sentence of death by legal objection shall be imposed upon Mr. Great..." (27:46)
  • The crowd in the courtroom erupts in cheers at the verdict. “I’ve never seen that.” — Bob Jones (28:41)

Aftermath and Ongoing Pain (29:30–34:17)

• Further Prosecutions: Grate pleads guilty to more murders in other counties, receiving two more life sentences.
• Stalled Justice: Families and survivors express that closure is elusive until Grate is executed, now delayed due to legal appeals and a state moratorium.
  • Gina Stanley: “I feel like justice is him not breathing anymore. That’s the only way I’m going to feel complete justice for my sister.” (30:32)
  • Jessica Anderson: “I would love to see it carried out.” (30:52)
• Demolition of "The House on Covert Court": Symbolic destruction of the crime scene brings some comfort, but not true closure.
  • “It was demolishing the bad memories that affected this community for two years.” — Bob Jones (32:48)
  • Kim Major: “We’re so innocent to actually think that tearing down that home is going to take this away. Because it doesn’t.” (33:32)

Reflection and Lessons Learned (34:17–35:41)

• Kim Major’s Reflection: Major later writes "A Hunger to Kill," advocating for remembrance and learning.
  • "I don't want to forget this case. I don't want anyone to forget it. As a matter of fact, I want more people to know." (34:43)
  • “If people can’t realize that these women could have been anyone… this could have been me. If we can’t learn from that, then what is our purpose?” (35:07)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• Kim Major’s struggle with the double life of a detective and mother:
  “I sat there, which was also surreal, seeing all the things around me… people are happy… just the whole thing.” (01:51)
• Corbin Major’s realization:
  “Mom, he did it.” (04:41)
• Chilling confession:
  Major: “We have another victim.” (07:53)
• Threats against Major:
  “He thought it would be the ultimate to kill me as the female detective handling his case.” (11:17)
• Grate’s haunting admission:
  “Yeah, it’s probably worse.” (13:16)
• Prosecution’s blunt summary:
  “This is a he did it case.” — Chris Tennell, Prosecutor (19:00)
• Survivor’s courtroom courage described:
  “She was very brave sitting up there on the stand talking about the terror that she went through.” — Bob Jones (20:04)
• Family’s pain made vivid:
  “I had to go in there and pick a casket out and he made it to where I couldn’t even have an open casket to say goodbye to her.” — Curtis Stanley (26:23)
• Kim Major on false closure:
  “We’re so innocent to actually think that tearing down that home is going to take this away. Because it doesn’t.” (33:46)

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Important Segment Timestamps

• Detective Major’s Family Realization: (01:51–04:45)
• Rebecca Lacey Confession: (07:01–09:16)
• Threats from Grate/Final Interview: (10:11–13:16)
• Trial Coverage & Jane Doe’s Testimony: (18:55–20:44)
• Change of Plea: (21:32–22:46)
• Sentencing & Impact Statements: (24:32–28:54)
• House Demolition: (32:06–33:51)
• Major’s Reflection & Community Lessons: (34:01–35:41)

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Tone & Takeaways

The episode combines the procedural rigor of true crime with personal and communal trauma, maintaining a solemn, compassionate tone. It explores themes of justice, memory, and the difficulty of moving on after horror.

Lasting Message:
The pain of Grate’s crimes lingers in Ashland, despite legal closure or the symbolic destruction of the crime scene. Detective Kim Major’s dedication, both as investigator and advocate for the victims, leaves listeners with a message about learning, empathy, and the collective need for vigilance and healing.

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For listeners seeking a deep, intimate look at the aftermath of serial crime—its investigation, resolution, and long shadow—this episode offers a thorough, emotional, and insightful journey.

Transcript

[A]

This is Debra Roberts. I'm here with another weekly episode of our latest series from 2020 and ABC Audio, the Hand in the Window. Remember, you can get new episodes early if you follow the Hand in the Window for free on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or your favorite podcast app. Now, here's the episode.

[B]

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[C]

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[B]

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[D]

To Kim Major, there is nothing more normal than a Friday night football game. That's true now. And it was true back in September 2016.

[E]

On Friday night. My husband coaches football. He coached a football game. I actually took my younger kids to the football game.

[D]

Major has three kids. At the time, her two youngest were under 8 years old. Even. They knew something was going on at their mom's job. They noticed her working long hours, coming home after their bedtime. They even saw her on the news. Major had spent three days interviewing Sean Grate, hearing his horrific confessions. The weight of it all was seeping into her home life. Major sensed that her family needed a night that felt normal.

[E]

I sat there, which was also surreal, seeing all the things around me and the lights and the people are happy. They're happy. They're cracking the helmets, the band, watching my husband hearing the whistles. Just the whole thing.

[D]

Friday Night Lights.

[E]

It's Friday Night Lights. That's small town America.

[D]

But while the crowd roared and the band played, Major couldn't stop thinking about Grade's case and something he kept mentioning in their interviews. Specifically the forts that he had built in the woods.

[F]

You put her there?

[G]

I just recently built a fort.

[E]

Did you build that fort there for a reason?

[G]

Well, I knew the area.

[D]

Great. Kept bringing up one fort in particular. There was something about this fort that nagged at Major even when she was off the clock.

[E]

I came home early, a little bit earlier, when the game was just ending. I brought my kids home, put them to bed. And then I was sitting in the living room and my oldest son came in. Corbin.

[D]

Corbin Major was 19 at the time. He was getting ready to enter the police academy.

[E]

He walks in and he's like, what's going on, Mom? I said.

Sean, Gray keeps talking about this fort he built. And my son said, where is it? And I said, well, if you come up out of Mifflin and you take that first left. And my son cut me off and said, and then you take a hard right and there's a gas well up there. And they found a girl there a while back. And this, as a crow flies, is, I don't know, a mile, two miles from my home.

[D]

Despite how close it was, Kim Major had never heard of the case her son was talking about. She worked in town, and this was out in the countryside.

[E]

So I said, what are you talking about? He said, yeah, there was a woman that died of an overdose and they dumped her body there.

[D]

Corbin grabbed a laptop and brought up news reports about the case. A body had been found in March of the previous year at the base of a tree on a remote county road. Kim Major's son wondered, could Great's fort and this body be connected?

[E]

And he said, where was the fort? I said, right there. Right by there. And he's like, get something to write with. What's his target age? And I'm like, what are you doing? And we go through some things and we're talking. By the time we're done, my son said, mom, he did it.

[D]

The town of Ashland was still reeling from the shock and horror of the previous days. But before a semblance of normality could return, all of Shawn Great's crimes would have to be uncovered. Only then could the wheels of justice begin to turn. Normal wouldn't come back to Ashland for a long time.

From ABC Audio and 20 20, I'm John Quinones, and this is the Hand in the window. Episode 6 Piece by Pie.

In March 2015, a maintenance worker was checking gas wells in a wooded area of Ashland County. As the worker was leaving, he saw something through the trees. He thought it might be a discarded Halloween decoration. But as he got closer, he realized it was a body, half naked, resting against a tree. The worker called 911, and investigators soon realized that there were visible tattoos on the body that matched those of a person who had been reported missing. A local woman, 31 year old Rebecca Lacey. Her family, who called her Becky, had been searching for her for more than a month. Her father told a local journalist that Rebecca had a drug problem. He said that to earn money, she'd been doing sex work.

[H]

When the Richland County Coroner's office examined Rebecca Lacey's body, they produced a toxicology report showing cocaine and opioids in her system.

[D]

They ruled that the cause of death was a drug overdose. That's why Detective Kim Major was hesitant about her son. Corbin's suggestion. With a cause of death determined, the case of Rebecca Lacey was all but wrapped up.

But Corbin seemed sure that Grate was somehow involved. So the next day, Major went down to the jail where Grate was being held.

[E]

How you doing, Sean?

[D]

How you doing?

[E]

All right.

[D]

Major sat Grate in an interview room and told him she was looking for clarification.

[E]

There's a case from out in the county, meaning that we found a girl.

And we're trying to see if you'll be honest. If that's something you had something to do with. We're asking for that.

[G]

Rebecca Lacey.

[D]

Great answered without hesitation.

[E]

He said, rebecca Lacey. And I knew.

[D]

We have another victim.

[E]

We have another victim.

[D]

With very little prompting, Great had revealed victim number six. And sure enough, Corbin. Major's hunch had been right. Rebecca Lacey had not died of an overdose. Sean Grate had murdered her.

Major asked Grate how they'd met. Great said, $20. He was implying that they met through her alleged sex work. After that, he said, they had become friends. Gray told Major that one day he and Rebecca were hanging out in Mansfield, the town in the county over from Ashland. They were at his place.

[E]

He said she was there. I went to the restroom, and I looked out, and she had stolen a few dollars from him, less than $5. And he said he had kneed her and punched her and that her face was bleeding. He said she fought him like a man. And he said he had strangled her. He talks about borrowing a car and taking her body out and dumping her in my county.

[D]

Grate described Rebecca as number two on his list of victims.

[H]

Number one was the woman he knew only as Dana, the magazine seller murdered a decade before. Candace Cunningham was third in the summer of 2016.

[D]

Then he attacked Elizabeth Griffith, Stacy Stanley, and Jane Doe all within a few weeks of each other. In the early fall of 2016, Great had confessed to brutally attacking six women and killing all but one of them. Major needed to make sure there were no more crimes that Grate was hiding.

[E]

If I leave here and you think that there's another layer, I'm not going to hold it against you. Well, you know what I mean.

[F]

Yeah.

[G]

This onion's peeled all the way.

[D]

This onion is peeled all the way, Grate said.

[G]

I feel better now.

[E]

Okay.

[G]

I'm free.

[D]

Once again, Major left the interview room with a confession from Sean Grate and a promise that there were no more crimes. He needed to come clean About. But in the days that followed, Great kept asking to see Detective Major. Before she could meet him again, she heard something troubling. A month after he's arrested, a fellow inmate tells you that Shawn Gray is targeting you, that he wants to kill you.

[A]

Yeah.

[E]

The inmate said he needed to talk to me. Needed it to be in secret. He didn't want anybody to see him talking to me. So I made that arrangement, and I sat down in front of him.

He said that Sean Gray told him he was trying to find my gun on my body, couldn't figure out where I was keeping it, and that he thought it would be the ultimate to kill me as the female detective that was handling his case.

[D]

Despite this allegation that Sean Grade was making a threat against her life, Major believed there was the chance that Grade wanted to see her because he had more to to confess. The information that Major received from the inmate didn't lead to any additional charges against Grate. When Major next interviewed him, they met at the jail, where no weapons were allowed.

[E]

Detective Major preparing to interview Sean Grate. Here's requested meeting at West County Sheriff's Office.

[D]

During this this interview, Grate's behavior was erratic. He was upset with the other inmates in the jail and at the staff.

[G]

I want to hurt him.

[E]

You want to hurt who?

[G]

I don't know. It don't matter if you're playing games with me. It's just hard to handle.

[E]

Okay.

[F]

How do you feel? Like they're playing games with me.

[H]

Sitting in front of him again, Major thought about the alleged threat that Grate had told an inmate he wanted to kill her.

[E]

I wanted to ask, did you say this, and what did you mean by that? I didn't want to make it about me. So I said, are you still having that hunger that you talk about? The hunger to kill? Can I ask you something? Will you be honest?

Do you still.

Have thoughts.

[G]

About that desire?

[D]

Yeah.

[E]

And he said, yeah, it's probably worse. And I said, like you're having that right now? And he said, yeah, I didn't go any farther than that.

[D]

Major questioned Grate for an hour and a half that day, but Grate gave her no more confessions. By now, Detective Major had spent around 33 hours with Sean Grate across eight interviews, but this one would be their last. Major's police captain had heard about Grate's alleged threat. He told Major to stop visiting him. The next time she saw Great in person would be in Court.

On 22nd September, 2016, Great was formally indicted for his crimes in Ashland County. The indictment included everything that had happened to Stacy Stanley, Jane Doe and Elizabeth Griffith. The other murders he'd confessed to were being handled by police departments in neighboring counties, and those indictments would come later. The case was officially out of Detective Major's hands. The details of Sean Gray's crimes, which he'd confessed to in the quiet interview room, were now going to be heard by everyone, a judge, jury and.

The victim's families.

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[J]

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[G]

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[D]

A year and a half after his indictment In April of 2018, Grate's trial began. It was held in the Ashland County Court in the center of town, just a few blocks away from COVID Court. The courtroom was large and quiet. A scattered audience sat in wooden pews facing the judge's platform. Grate, then 41 years old, was sitting at his lawyer's table wearing glasses and a white button down shirt. In footage of the trial, his hair looks less dirty blonde and more gray. Prosecutor Chris Tennell addressed the jury first. In his opening statement, he told them he was seeking the death penalty for Shawn Grate.

This is not a whodunit case.

This is a he did it case.

Great's defense disagreed. Despite Grayt's recorded confessions to Detective Major, his lawyers entered a plea of not guilty for all the charges against him.

[C]

I think that the mood was very somber. It was quiet.

[D]

Bob Jones was a reporter covering the trial for local ABC News affiliate station. We.

Would watch the next eight days of testimony as it happened.

[C]

It was sad because we were hearing all these terrible details.

[D]

The prosecution presented more than 50 witnesses, from medical experts to police officers. Kim Major testified and parts of her interviews with Great were played in the courtroom. Bob Jones says that one witness really stood out to him.

[C]

The moment when Jane Doe testified was a pivotal moment in the trial. It was probably the most crucial testimony in the case. She was very brave sitting up there on the stand talking about the terror that she went through. She said she was tied up. She said that she tried multiple times to get away. She talked about how she was sexually assaulted in every imaginable way. And Sean even Videotaped the sexual assault that took place on her. She testified about all of those things, and it was very scary to hear.

[D]

Bob wasn't just watching the witnesses testimony. He was also scrutinizing Sean Grate.

[C]

He didn't have much of a reaction during most of the testimony. To my memory, he sat there quietly. He didn't really seem to have much of a feel one way or the other.

[H]

Great was silent during the witness's testimony. So what was going on inside Great's head was hard to know until the morning of the eighth day of the trial. That morning, Grate stood not on the witness stand, but at his lawyer's table. The jury wasn't in the room. The judge wanted to ask Grade some questions about a very late and surprising change of strategy.

[G]

Okay, was this a decision you came to on your own, and then you advised your attorneys that at this point.

[D]

You wanted to Grade had requested to change his plea from not guilty to guilty for 15 of the 23 counts against him. He hoped to now plead guilty to the rape charges, as well as a slew of others, including burglary, gross abuse of a corpse, and tampering with evidence. His lawyers told the court that Gray wanted to plead guilty in order to prevent the videos of him sexually assaulting his victims being shown in court. The videos were of Stacey Stanley and Jane Doe. And by pleading guilty, that evidence would not need to be seen by the jury. His lawyers claim that Grayd was changing his plea out of consideration for Jane Doe and and the families of the other victims. The judge accepted Grayt's request.

This didn't mean the trial was over. Gray kept his not guilty plea for the murder charges he faced. The jury would still give their verdict on those crimes.

After his change of plea. There were closing statements for each side. Then the jury was sent away for deliberation. They returned less than four hours later with their verdict. They found Great guilty on all charges.

Given Great's confessions to detective major, the verdict was not a total surprise. But sentencing was still very much up in the air. With 23 guilty counts, it looked likely that Grate would face years in prison. But he was also eligible for the death penalty. At an earlier hearing, Great's lawyers told the court that they knew their client wouldn't walk out of the courtroom a free man. But would he walk out as a man condemned to death?

In deciding Great's punishment, the court would hear more evidence. Two more days of testimony. This testimony wasn't for the jury, but for the judge to help him decide If Great deserved the death penalty.

The day of the sentencing a few weeks later was on June 1, 2018. It was a warm and humid day with clouds overhead. Things looked different inside the courtroom than they had when the trial began. Now, instead of a shirt and tie, Grade was in a yellow prison jumpsuit and the room was packed. On one side, the pews were filled with people wearing purple. Stacy Stanley's favorite color. Stacy's cousin had gotten special purple T shirts made with slogans on them. Justice for Stacy and Stanley Strong. All of Stacy's loved ones were wearing them. Gray was given the opportunity to address the court filled with the loved ones of the women he'd murdered. Gray turned to look at the crowd.

Well.

[G]

Today'S a good day. Mainly for all of you guys and myself.

Hope we could just move on from all this. You know, I don't. No, exactly.

[D]

Grate said he knew he wasn't normal, but that he knew right from wrong. He asked for forgiveness from the victims families and said that justice was the most important thing that could come from this day. Great wasn't the only person invited to give a statement. Curtis Stanley had been there every day of the trial. He wanted to make eye contact with the person who had killed his mother while he gave a statement. He stood facing Great across the courtroom.

[G]

You ever bury your mother?

[H]

I did.

[D]

What?

[G]

Picked a casket out. I didn't expect that this young. I had to go in there and pick a casket out and he made it to where I couldn't even have an open casket to say goodbye to her.

[D]

Elizabeth Griffith's mom, uncle and cousins spoke among a dozen people who stood to give their victim impact statement. Like Stacy's sister, Gina Stanley.

[F]

Thank you to everyone who has supported our families today. This monster will pay for what he has done and I'm confident it will be with his life.

[D]

Despite his plea for forgiveness, almost all of the people who spoke that day said they couldn't forgive Great for what he had done. Some of them seemed angry that he'd even asked them to try. Most of them told the court, Great deserves to die.

But the final decision was up to the judge, Ronald P. Forstoffel.

[G]

Mr. Great, when imposing sentence, the court must comply with the purposes and principles of Ohio's sentencing statute with regard to the non capital charges in this case.

[D]

For Stoffel told Gray, Teed weighed up the evidence, the statements from the families and Grate's personal history and he had made a sentencing decision.

[G]

The court therefore finds that a sentence of death by legal objection shall be imposed upon Mr. Great. For the aggravated murder of Elizabeth Griffith.

[D]

As stated in count one, Great was given two death penalties, One for the murder of Stacy Stanley and one for the murder of Elizabeth Griffith. For the other charges in Ashland county, he was given prison sentences that added up to 90 years behind bars.

[C]

The reaction from the courtroom was something that I had never quite seen in many years of covering trials in criminal cases.

[G]

Court further orders that each of the death penalties be carried out by appropriate authorities. On September 13, 2018, which would be the two year anniversary of Mr. Grate's.

[D]

Discovery.

[C]

When the judge said, I'm going to sentence Sean Grate to death, the crowd in the courtroom, the family erupted in cheers and clapped and I've never seen that.

[H]

Two other counties would also pursue murder charges against Grate. Marion county, where he killed the magazine seller he called Dana. Investigators would eventually identify her as Dana Lowry, a missing 23 year old from out of state. And then there was Richland county, where he killed Candace Cunningham and Rebecca Lacey. In these cases, Great pleaded guilty to.

[D]

All of the charges and was given.

[H]

Two more prison sentences, both life without parole.

Shawn Great is currently being held on death row at a medium security prison in Ohio. His scheduled execution date has come and gone. Two things have delayed it. First, he appealed his death penalty at the state level in 2020 and at the federal level in 2025. In his appeals, Grate argued he had ineffective counsel and that his case was too public to have an unbiased jury. The first appeal was denied, but the 2025 appeal is still in progress. The second reason Grate remains on death row is that in 2020, the governor of Ohio, Mike DeWine, declared a moratorium on state executions.

[D]

Stacy Stanley's sister Gina is still waiting for the case to end.

[F]

I just want to say that I feel like justice is him not breathing anymore.

[C]

And.

[F]

That'S the only way I'm going to feel complete justice for my sister.

[D]

Elizabeth Griffith's friend Jessica Anderson is also waiting for Gray's execution date to arrive.

[F]

I mean, I know he's coming to a point to where he's running out of appeals and it's going to happen and I can't wait for the day to happen. I mean, I know he already has a death penalty, but him it actually being carried out. I would love to see it carried out.

[D]

Jessyca met Elizabeth Griffith while working at a mental health support service called LifeWorks. For Jessica and others in Ashland, the yellow house on Covert court became an unwelcome reminder of what had Happened in their town.

[F]

You could literally look out lifeworks window and see that house. Like that's how close it was. And.

There for a while. After.

We found out that Elizabeth was one of the people in the house.

I went through a period where I would have nightmares about it, and I would see her in the window Asking for help. I wanted them to tear it down so bad, and I was so happy the day that they did.

[D]

The city of Ashland had taken ownership of the house, and 11 days after great sentencing, they authorized its demolition. Once again, a crowd gathered outside the house on covert court, this time to see it destroyed. Piece by piece, an excavator ripped down the house of horror.

[C]

People were thrilled to see that house go away.

[D]

Reporter Bob jones says the house's destruction felt symbolic.

[C]

That was like a day of cleansing for the community. It was not only demolishing the walls and the horror that happened inside, but it was demolishing the bad memories that affected this community for two years.

[D]

Detective Kim major was also there on covert court for the demolition. The day afterward, A local newspaper ran a picture of her crying While she was watch the house come down. But her tears were not ones of relief or closure. You were there when you saw the house on covert court destroyed, demolished.

[E]

I was.

[D]

What did that feel like?

[E]

I stood there feeling almost like my community were so innocent. Were so innocent. To actually think that tearing down that home.

Is going to take this away. Because it doesn't.

[D]

Major told me it would take a lot more than one demolition to repair this town. Just because you can't see that house.

[E]

Anymore, it doesn't mean exactly. It's leveled, it's flat. There you go by, and it's flat. But the weight of the situation is still here.

[D]

In 2022, Kim Major released a book about her experience on the great case. It's called A hunger to kill. And she dedicated it to the victims of Sean great. That same year, she retired from the Ashland police department. She's not a detective anymore, but this case hasn't left her.

[E]

I don't want to forget this case. I don't want anyone to forget it. As a matter of fact, I want more people to know.

[D]

The case has hurt the town of Ashland deeply. Kim major wants her community to heal but never lose sight of what this case taught them.

[E]

I think if we can't learn from this, if we can't get it better, the things we do right, where we miss the mark, if people can't realize that these women could have been anyone, this could have been me. If we can't learn from that, then what is our purpose?

[D]

The hand in the window is a production of abc audio and 2020, hosted by me, john quinones. Produced by madeline wood, camille peterson, kiara powell edited by gianna palmer. Our supervising producer is susie lu. Music and mixing by evan viola. Special thanks to katie dendos, janice johnston, michelle margulis, caitlin schiffer, rachel walker, annalisa linder, joseph diaz, jonathan bob, gail deutch, gary wynn, stephanie mcbee, natalie cardenas and samantha wanderer. Josh cohan is our director of podcast programming.

[B]

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[G]

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[I]

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[B]

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[I]

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