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- [00:01]
A
This is Deborah Roberts here with another weekly episode of our latest true crime series from 2020 and ABC Audio, the Snare. Remember, you can get new episodes early
- [00:10]
B
by following the Snare on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you're listening now. Now here's the next episode of the Snare. And we're live on Match Day as Doug reaches for a buffalo wing. He's got it. Oh, and he's gone for a can of Pepsi, too. What a finish. There's no doubt about it. Tastes better. Match Days deserve Pepsi.
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A
It's January 1997, about seven months since Angie Dodge was brutally murdered at knifepoint. For months, police have had no solid leads, no suspects in Angie's murder. They talked to dozens of local Idaho Falls residents, collecting DNA samples, chasing tips. But it hadn't brought them any closer to solving this case until they got word about an arrest in Nevada for sexual assault. Idaho Falls investigators were told by Nevada police that the alleged perpetrator held a knife to the victim's throat. To detectives, this detail about the knife seemed similar to Angie's murder. They made the trip to speak with the man in custody.
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B
Okay, how did you know Angie? She's a very good friend of mine. You guys used to hang around together.
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A
Because he also happened to be a friend of Angie Dodge. His name is Ben Hobbs. Just seven months earlier, Ben had been at Angie's funeral. A 24 year old with short blond hair and a mustache, Ben had carried a flower arrangement in the processional line, which wearing jeans and a checkered shirt. Now he's sitting in front of Idaho Falls investigators in an orange prison jumpsuit. And investigators tell him something shocking. One of his friends told police that Ben had something to do with Angie's death.
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B
We've got Chris admitting to knowing about it and implicating you in homicide as doing it. He's got details about what happened on how you did it and what went on.
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Chris, as in Chris Tap, who you heard talking to police in the last episode. Chris is someone Ben thought was a close friend.
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B
Why would Chris say all that stuff? I don't know. I have no idea.
- [02:40]
A
Ben had actually spoken to police months earlier. In the initial days after the murder, he was among the many Idaho Falls residents police interviewed. But now things are different. Detectives are focused on Ben. What exactly has Kristapp told police? What does Chris know about Angie's death? Two men who were once very good friends would have two very different stories. But only one of them is telling the truth. From ABC Audio In 2020, I'm Maggie Ruley and this is the Snare. Episode 2 He's turning on you. A few days before questioning Ben Hobbs in Nevada, investigators brought Chris Tapp into the Idaho Falls police station. This will be the beginning of an intense month long probe. A probe that that will come under scrutiny years later. Chris doesn't know what awaits him. For now, he's going to the police station as someone who just wants to help. He's led into a small room with a table and two chairs surrounded by white beige walls. Wearing a dark plaid shirt, jeans and a raider's cap, Chris takes a seat in the corner. The detective reassures Chris that he's not in any trouble, just that he wants to pick his brain.
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B
You're not on Earnest. You can get up and say, hey, I'm done. Take me home. I'll try to help you as best I can.
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A
When Chris and Ben met a couple years ago, Chris says the pair became fast friends. They were part of a larger crew that he says were inseparable the summer Angie was killed. But Chris tells detectives that it's been a while since he and Ben last saw each other. Chris says he had left Idaho Falls to seek treatment for drug abuse. Chris is a high school dropout with some minor run ins with the law. But now he says he's focused on getting his life straight. He's been living a quieter life at his mom's house. He even tells the detective that his girlfriend might be pregnant.
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B
Does your mom and dad know? Not yet. Is it?
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Yeah, there's a. A familiar rapport between the two. This detective was a former school drug counselor, someone Chris has known since he was a kid.
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B
You got a lot to lose now, don't you even necessarily you're going to be a dad. Well, we got a lot of crap going down right now, okay? But I'm going to share some of it with you. I mean, I trust you and hopefully you trust me.
- [05:27]
A
The detective tells Chris that Ben's been arrested for sexual assault and they think Ben might have something to do with Angie's murder. But the investigator tells Chris that they suspect he is also somehow involved. That people they've talked to keep mentioning Chris's name. Chris looks confused. He says he had nothing to do with Angie's murder and doesn't know who could have done it.
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B
I mean, if my name keeps coming up, which I can't understand why I'm trying to clear it up.
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Chris tells the detective that on the night of Angie's murder, he thinks he was at The Snake river with some friends. He says Angie was there, too, but they didn't talk. They weren't really friends. More like acquaintances. He says he's never been to her apartment and doesn't even know where she lives. Eventually, Chris says he left the river and went home. He says he doesn't know where Ben was that night, and that's all he knows. The detective seems skeptical.
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B
Well, let's put it this way, okay? Did you kill Angie? No.
- [06:43]
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No, Chris says he did not kill Angie. The detective warns him that there could be consequences for not cooperating. But then he says he wants to help Chris, that he might be able to get him a deal with the county prosecutor's office if Chris speaks up.
- [07:01]
B
Now, I can't make this promise to you, but I can tell you that because of my position and everything, I could attempt to pull some serious strings and try to keep your name completely out of everything. And that's a pretty. Pretty generous offer considering if you decide not to work with us. And it comes out later that I knew something. Yeah.
- [07:31]
A
In other words, tell us what you know before it's too late. But for the almost 90 minutes Chris spends in the interrogation room that night, he stays adamant. He didn't kill Angie and knows nothing about her murder.
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B
I mean, I'll take a lie detector test. I will sign anything that would just verify what I said and you can take it to court.
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Three days after Chris's meeting with police, investigators take him up on his offer to take a polygraph test.
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Does it help to say that I'm nervous? Well, if you're not, then that's a draw.
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You have to be nervous sitting in a big cushioned chair. Chris says he's nervous. The polygraph examiner sets up his machine on the desk behind him. The examiner straps various black cuffs on Chris's right arm and fingers. Then he clips two wires tightly across his chest. Chris takes a few deep breaths before the examiner starts.
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Regarding Angie Dodge being murdered, you intend to answer truthfully each question? Yes. Did you kill Angie Dodge? Regarding Angie Dodge being killed, did you do it? No.
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Chris also repeats what he told police since the very beginning. That he knows nothing about Angie's murder and has no idea who was involved. He looks over his shoulder at the polygraph examiner sitting right behind him.
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B
How they do. Very strong reaction.
- [09:13]
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The examiner gets up from his desk and walks over to grab a chair. He and Chris are now sitting face to face. The examiner tells him that the polygraph machine showed Chris was deceptive when he was asked about Angie that based on his polygraph results, Chris was either directly involved or. Or knows who did it. In other words, Chris knows more about Angie's murder than he let on. Chris's voice turns meek. He spoke to police because he wanted to help. He offered to take a polygraph test to clear his name. And now investigators are even more suspicious of him. He tells the examiner that he's scared. Chris repeats over and over that he doesn't know anything about Angie's murder. Polygraphs aren't admissible in court. But the examiner tells Chris that for his own sake, he needs to be honest or else he could be facing an accessory to murder charge. He starts to explain what that charge could lead to. The examiner says an accessory to murder charge means the person watching the crime happen, maybe just just as guilty as the one who did it. And that if Chris didn't speak up, he could be looking at life in prison. He mentions the gas chamber and hanging, meaning the death penalty was a possibility. And that the stakes are high, but Chris can avoid the worst if he just starts talking. Chris tells him he has a hard time remembering things, but the examiner says that's just an excuse. He tells Chris that subconsciously he knows what happened. That something is stopping him from telling the truth. He says it could be fear or loyalty to his friend Ben Hobbs. But the examiner tells Chris he needs to start looking after himself.
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B
You need to protect yourself.
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Chris is quiet for a few moments before he starts talking about Ben.
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B
Maybe he did tell me something. I'm just afraid to say anything.
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Chris says maybe Ben did tell him something. He says, I never thought that Ben would do it. But then pauses. The detective in the room encourages Chris to tell them more. He says they'll try to protect Chris as much as they can. With that reassurance, Chris shares a new version of events. Chris tells investigators that Ben didn't like Angie. That Ben blames her for coming between him and his ex wife. Chris alleges that every time they saw Angie at the river, Ben would tell him how much he wanted to kill her. But Chris brushed it off. He thought Ben was just joking.
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B
I never thought he'd do it. I didn't think Ben was dumb enough.
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On the day Angie was killed, Chris says he and Ben were at the river. He tells investigators he saw Ben and Angie have a few words with each other before she left. Chris didn't know what it was about, but he says it didn't look good. Chris says later that night, the two men went their separate ways. Chris tells investigators when he saw Ben the next day. Ben told him he went to Angie's apartment. Chris says he was confused. He thought, why would Ben go see her? He says he asked Ben if they had sex. Ben said no.
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B
Then I said, then what'd you do to me? Just calling you do that she what killed him?
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That he killed her? Chris tells investigators Ben admitted to murdering Angie and that Ben said he used a knife. This was a big moment for detectives. It's the first time that anyone, including Chris Tapp, after hours of being interviewed by police, has named Ben Hobbs as the alleged murderer. Chris, still sitting in that plush leather chair, looks exhausted and close to tears. He's been sitting at the station talking with investigators for hours. He tells detectives that he just wants to go home.
- [13:56]
B
You said I can kill this at any time, right? I'm sorry, I. I can stop this at any time. I can go home.
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Police let Chris go home that night, but the next day they arrest him, accusing him of withholding information about the murder. So after talking to detectives, Chris is charged with being an accessory to a felony. But it won't be the last time Chris talks to investigators. He'll take more polygraph tests and spend more days being questioned by detectives. For investigators, Chris allegation about Ben being Angie's killer is a break in the case. But first they have to talk to Ben Hobbs, who at that moment was sitting in a jail cell in Nevada.
- [15:03]
B
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- [16:29]
A
A few days after Chris takes his polygraph test and implicates his friend Ben Hobbs, detectives go to Nevada to speak with Ben. The visit we mentioned at the start of the episode. Ben sits at the center of the room wearing an orange prison jumpsuit, flanked by investigators on either side. They've turned someone's personal office at this Nevada police station into an interrogation room. It has gray filing cabinets and shelves stacked with black binders. There's an array of stuffed animals on top of the bookcase, right above Ben's head. His arms and legs are crossed. He's leaning back into his chair. But Ben's not relaxed. He had his guard up the moment investigators first came into the room, immediately telling them he's innocent. It's been a while since Ben first spoke to detectives, so his memory of their first conversation is hazy. But for the most part, Ben tells them what he told them months that he and Angie were friends. Ben tells detectives he was at the river on the night Angie was killed. Angie was there, too. But he says she left soon after he arrived, so they didn't even speak. Ben says he doesn't remember where he went or what he did later that evening.
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B
You can't remember who you're with? You can't remember anything that night was. Did you black out that night? Is that what you're saying? No. It's not so much a blackout. It's just so much that I've been stoned for two years. I can't even remember what I did three weeks ago.
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The investigators don't buy it. They keep pressing him.
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B
Where you went? Where were you? I just told you I don't know. So you very well. I just want to go know you very well could kid have killed Andy and you don't know because somebody I know. All right, I'm done talking as you guys. I'm sorry. You guys are asking the same questions over and over. I'm telling you the same thing over and over. It's not going nowhere but in circles.
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A
Ben doesn't budge. He denies having anything to do with Angie's murder. He says even though he doesn't remember what he did that night, he would never do something that Awful to one of his friends. But Chris Tapp had told investigators something different. So they confront him with Chris's allegations that Ben and Angie had had a disagreement, that he'd talked about killing her, that the tension between them eventually led to Ben murdering Angie in her apartment. This was the story Chris told detectives.
- [19:05]
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Why would Chris start turning on you for this? I don't know. That's a good question. Something I would.
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Ben denies Chris's accusations and stands by what he said, that he and Angie didn't even talk that night. He never talked about killing her, and he did not murder her. But the detectives make clear that they think he's hiding something.
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B
Like I said, this guy is implicating you pretty heavily in this. And that's what we want to do, is we want to get it cleared up, find out why and what's going on. You know, you may not believe us, and there's a lot of things that truthful value. I don't believe you at your telling
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me, just like they did with Chris. Detectives ask Ben what's the possibility that he could have killed Angie, but just doesn't remember.
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He could kill Angie and not remember it because of the drugs, being stoned. If I killed somebody, I'd know I'd killed something.
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Ben is losing his patience. He turns the tables on investigators and starts asking them questions about what happened to Angie.
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B
Was she raped the night she was killed? Tell me, was she raped? I don't know. That's why I'm asking you. Because if she was, my DNA will prove my innocence right there. Let me tell you this. I'm not going to tell you anything about the crime scene, inside the house, outside the house. I will tell you. We have got DNA that will fully convict somebody or will fully eliminate somebody. It's going to eliminate my ass because I had nothing to do with this.
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Ben had already agreed to give police a blood sample. He's banking on the DNA results to show he wasn't in Angie's apartment the night she was killed. Ben's confident, almost arrogant, that there's no way his DNA will be a match. That despite what Chris says, this will prove what he's been saying all along, that he had nothing to do with Angie's murder. But investigators seem just as confident that the DNA will show he's their killer.
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B
What happens when your DNA comes back as being in the house? I don't know what happens. Well, what. That's what I'm asking you. I'm not guilty. If that's training it, I Don't know. Not guilty.
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A
This is a very different interview from the one detectives had with Chris Tapp. Both men initially stood firm and denied having any knowledge of or involvement in Angie's murder. For Chris, the longer he spoke to police, the more fearful he became. He told the detectives he was scared and eventually accused Ben of being the killer. But Ben never wavers. He becomes combative the more investigators question him. And he sticks with the story that he's told police from the very beginning, that he didn't kill Angie and didn't know anything about her murder. At this point, Ben and the detectives are at a standstill. Police aren't going to get the confession they were hoping for.
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B
We had some questions. We need to get screwed up. Okay. Thanks, gang. Sorry. You think I'm lying to you. Well, that same way.
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A
Detectives leave Nevada with nothing more than Ben's DNA. But if they couldn't get a confession, police can at least keep building their case, starting with the friend who named Ben as Angie's killer, Chris Tapp. By now, they've arrested and charged him with accessory to a felony, accusing him of not telling police that Ben allegedly killed Angie when they first spoke. But the county prosecutor's office decides to strike Chris a deal. Work with authorities, and they'll reduce the charge. He could get a lighter sentence. But police warn him that if they find out Chris is lying and was more involved in the murder than he says he was, then this deal goes out the window. Chris cooperates, answering whatever questions detectives ask of him. He takes a second polygraph test. He spends hours talking to the police.
- [23:20]
B
We appreciate you coming and talking with us, and you saw the agreement and everything, right, Right over there. So we want to try to go over a few. Some of the details again. Just make sure we get everything straight that you told us, you know, a few days ago. Make sure we get all of our ducks in a row.
- [23:37]
A
And each time Chris meets with them, he shares new details about what allegedly happened the night Angie was killed. Investigators are piecing together Chris's story, starting with the moment he says he sees Angie at the river. He repeats what he told officers during his first polygraph test. That he was hanging out at the river when Ben showed up in his blue escort. Angie was there. Chris says Ben and Angie got into a disagreement before she left, and the two continued to hang out until the river closed out. But after a couple days of intense questioning from investigators, this is when Chris's account starts to change. Chris says he didn't go home alone like he initially told police instead. Chris now claims he actually left the river with Ben and they got in his car and spent an hour driving around town.
- [24:35]
B
Did you end up going over to Andrew's house? In the car,
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the detective asks Chris if he ended up going to Andrew's apartment. Chris says, yeah, I did. This is the moment that Chris changes the version of events again. He says that Ben didn't tell him what allegedly happened to Angie like Chris initially said, because now Chris is claiming that he was there. Honey, what are you listening to?
- [25:11]
B
Mom?
- [25:12]
A
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- [25:38]
B
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- [25:55]
A
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- [26:07]
B
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- [26:50]
A
All week, detectives have been asking Kristapp the same question over and over again. What happened the night Angie was killed? Chris would struggle to answer, saying he didn't know or can't remember. He's with investigators for hours at a time and they're pushing him to tell them more by day five. Chris now drops a big piece of new information. He tells them that he was actually in Angie's apartment the night she was killed. He didn't go home after the river like he initially said. He claims he was with Ben. This is what he tells investigators. Chris says Ben wanted to talk to Angie, to work things out and asked him to come as a mediator. Chris says they parked their car just down the street from her apartment, and around midnight, Ben, they started walking towards her place. Chris remembers it being cold that night. He thinks he was wearing a coat and hiking boots. And he says Ben wore a Notre Dame football jacket over his sweater. He says they knocked on Angie's door and she answered, looking confused to see the two men on her front steps. He says Ben told her that he just wanted to talk. So she led them up the stairs to her apartment and. And they got settled in her living room.
- [28:10]
B
You remember any of the conversations they were having? Were they yelling at each other? I mean, I don't need to know words or anything else, but it seemed like it was an even argument or was it fairly calm? It was a little bit of both. Story talks, halfway decent. Then, you know, words started to fly. Attitudes, I guess, started to rise. Breath, ankles.
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A
Chris told police that Ben and Angie were fighting over Ben's breakup with his wife and that the argument escalated. Chris says it eventually turned into a full on fight. He claims Ben pushed Angie down, then she got back up and fought right back. But Chris says Ben was ready to defend himself.
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B
The night hard. Yeah. And then what happened?
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Chris tells investigators Ben pulled out a knife and stabbed Angie in the chest twice. That's when Chris says he panicked and ran out of the apartment. Chris says he walked around the neighborhood for a while. Eventually he decided to go back to Angie's apartment to see if she was okay. He says Ben's car was still down the street, so he hid and waited for him to leave before going back inside.
- [29:41]
B
We went back to the apartment. Yeah. What's the city when you went apart and she.
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A
Detectives asked Chris what he saw inside the apartment. He says Angie was lying on the ground motionless. He describes seeing blood everywhere. He says it looked like the life had been drained out of her. He left Angie's apartment, still processing what he just saw. He says he doesn't know where Ben went that night. But when they got together the next day, Chris says Ben wasn't shy talking about killing Angie. He tells investigators Ben almost sounded like he was proud of what he did. Chris says beyond just stabbing Angie, Ben told him that he did her. He says when he asked Ben to elaborate, Ben said he had sex with Angie. Chris says he doesn't know what Ben did with the knife or his bloody clothes, but thinks he could have thrown it in the river.
- [30:48]
B
Ben ever threatened, you know, if you tell anybody, you know, to do the same thing? Yeah, I mean, that's normally that he'd go up on me.
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A
Chris says he didn't come forward because he was scared. He had to keep acting like everything was normal. He says he was terrified that Ben could hurt him. Next. Chris Tapp's version of what happened to Angie kept evolving. And after hours of questioning, he went from not knowing anything to now claiming he was at the scene of the crime. Now detectives are just waiting for his DNA results to come back. If Ben is the killer like Chris alleges, his DNA should match the samples investigators collected at the crime scene. Ben's waiting, too. He denies Chris's allegations that he killed Angie or knew anything about the crime. Like he said in his interview with police, he thinks the results will prove his innocence and show that whatever Chris told detectives was a lie. And that's when investigators hit a wall. Turns out Ben's DNA is not a match. The DNA results show that Ben was not in her apartment the night she was killed. What Ben insisted was true, he had nothing to do with Angie's rape and murder. This result clears Ben Hobbs of any wrongdoing, and he will never face charges for what happened to Angie, and there will never be evidence that connects him to the crime in any way. It's a blow to the case, but there was another person's DNA that was taken. Chris taps. What will those results show?
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B
Our biggest fear and our biggest concern right now is that DNA of mine. Right? So we just have to, you know, we just have to think about that. So.
- [33:14]
A
The Snare is a production of ABC Audio in 2020, hosted by me, Maggie Ruley. Produced by Camille Peterson and Sabrina Fang, with help from Annalisa Linder and Emily Shutz. Edited by Tracy Samuelson. Our supervising producer producer is Susie Lu. Music by Evan Viola. Mixing by Bob Mallory. Special thanks to Katie Dandas, Janice Johnston, Nancy Rosenbaum, Sasha Aslanian, Suzanne Dicunto and Michelle Margulis. Josh Cohan is our director of podcast programming. Amy McNiff is our executive producer.
- [34:10]
B
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