True Crime Vault: The Devil You Know

Summary

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20/20 True Crime Vault: “The Devil You Know”

Episode Date: December 23, 2025
Podcast: 20/20 (ABC News)

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Overview

This in-depth episode of 20/20's True Crime Vault explores the chilling saga of Robert Durst: real estate heir, suspected serial killer, and subject of the gripping HBO series The Jinx. Through interviews with prosecutors, family members, law enforcement, and filmmaker Andrew Jarecki, the podcast revisits four decades of murder accusations, legal twists, and Durst’s own bizarre behavior. The focus is on three interlinked cases: the 1982 disappearance of his wife Kathleen, the 2000 murder of friend Susan Berman, and the 2001 killing and dismemberment of neighbor Morris Black. The episode tracks his arrest, the sensational trials, and the final conviction that came just before his death.

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Main Themes

• The untouchability and arrogance of Robert Durst, who believed himself above the law
• How Durst’s wealth and manipulation enabled him to evade justice for decades
• The connection between Kathie Durst’s disappearance, Susan Berman’s murder, and Durst’s efforts to silence those who could implicate him
• The pivotal role of media—especially The Jinx—in exposing new evidence and propelling the case forward
• The emotional toll on the victims’ families and friends

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Disappearance of Kathie Durst (1982)

• Kathie McCormack and Robert Durst seemed a mismatched couple: she was ambitious and from a working-class family, while he was a privileged, eccentric heir (“Bob was a real weirdo…he would pee in wastebaskets.” — Andrew Jarecki, 12:58).
• The relationship turned violent; friends recall physical abuse and control.
  • [13:20] Officer Rashad Sharif details Bob dragging Kathie by the hair at a family event.
• Kathie vanished in January 1982. Durst delayed reporting her missing, and misled police by steering them toward Manhattan rather than South Salem, derailing the investigation.
• Media interest mounted, and Susan Berman (friend and media spokesperson) shaped the narrative, protecting Durst.
  • “Susan, who had shield him from the press and basically paint unflattering stories about Kathy, how she probably just ran off with someone.” — Officer Rashad Sharif, [15:57]

2. The Murder of Susan Berman (2000)

• In December 2000, Susan Berman was found murdered execution-style in her Beverly Hills home.
  • “Gunshot to the back of the head, the dog's bloody paw prints all around her body.” — [04:17]
• The killer left no evidence of forced entry, suggesting Susan knew the person. A chilling piece of mail was sent to police: a note with “cadaver” and Susan’s address, misspelling “Beverly.”
  • “What the murderer did…was take note paper and a green pen and wrote cadaver and her address and send it to the Beverly Hills Police Department. And spelled Beverly wrong.” — [05:07]
• Susan was a mafia daughter and had a complicated relationship with Durst—she had once given him an alibi for Kathie’s disappearance.
• Detectives suspected Durst was eliminating a friend who knew too much.

3. The Morris Black Case (2001)

• Durst, hiding out in Galveston, Texas as a mute woman, Dorothy Siner, became involved with neighbor Morris Black.
• Black’s torse was discovered, missing head and limbs; evidence tied Durst to the crime scene.
  • “Among the items recovered by police was a prescription for eyeglasses…inside his car a bow saw.” — [22:13]
• Durst admitted to killing and dismembering Black but insisted it was self-defense.
• Despite overwhelming evidence, Durst’s high-powered lawyers secured an acquittal.
  • “When this verdict was read…Jaws were on the floor. No one could believe what they’d just heard.” — [28:50]

4. Media Intrigue and The Jinx

• Interest in Robert Durst spiked with the 2010 film All Good Things and reached a new level with The Jinx: The Life and Deaths of Robert Durst.
• Durst voluntarily participated in interviews with filmmakers Andrew Jarecki and Mark Smerling, seeking spotlight and underestimating the danger.
  • “Bob’s problem is that he loves the attention. Loves it. It was like a drug to him.” — [33:27]
• The filmmakers uncovered critical evidence—a letter matching the “cadaver” note and a recording of Durst, off-camera, whispering, “Killed them all. Of course.”
  • “One day I hear the scream from the back editing room…And he goes, there it is. You’re caught. Kill them all. Of course. What the hell did I do? Like, oh, my God.” — Andrew Jarecki, [38:28]
• “[The] cadaver letter…turned out to be the smoking gun that prosecutors were looking for.” — [44:23]

5. Final Arrest and Prosecution

• After The Jinx aired, LAPD and the FBI raced to apprehend Durst before he could flee. They found him in New Orleans with disguises, money, and weapons.
  • “They find a latex mask, a professional one…money…maps…he happens to mention, oh, by the way, in my jacket…is a gun.” — [46:23]
• Prosecutor John Lewin conducted a bold, lengthy interview with Durst, who skirted direct admission while wavering near confession.
  • “Bob will let you get down to the five yard line pretty easily. And you think you're about to score, you're not going to score…He really doesn't start with really playing defense until he gets to the five.” — John Lewin, [49:09]
• Durst’s trial was delayed repeatedly due to his age and illness.

6. The Los Angeles Trial and Verdict

• The prosecution highlighted Durst’s pattern of manipulation, violence, and using money to escape accountability.
• Key evidence included the “cadaver” note, “dig” note (suspected to be a to-do list for disposing of a body), and Durst’s own admissions.
  • “The dig note was very bad for Robert Durst. It was clearly a note of what to do to dispose of a body.” — [67:20]
• Durst’s cross-examination was devastating; he admitted he would—and did—lie under oath to protect himself.
  • “Would you lie under oath to help your case?” — “Yes.” — [65:47], John Lewin and Durst
• Dramatic testimony by mutual friend Nick Chavin, who recalled Durst’s chilling words:
  • “I had you. It was her or me. I had no choice.” — Nick Chavin recalling Durst’s confession, [63:25]

7. Verdict, Aftermath, & Closure

• The jury convicted Durst of first-degree murder in the death of Susan Berman, sentencing him to life without parole.
  • “We, the jury, find the defendant, Robert Durst, guilty of the crime of first degree murder by Susan Berman.” — [75:57]
• Parallel charges in New York were filed for Kathie Durst’s disappearance, but Durst died before this could be prosecuted.
  • “Breaking news. Real estate heir and convicted murderer Robert Durst has died. The 78 year old went into cardiac arrest and could not be revived.” — [79:30]
• Under California law, his conviction was posthumously vacated, leaving Kathie’s family without full legal closure.
• The episode closes with both grief for the victims and a sense of hard-won but incomplete justice.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

“This is a guy who doesn't believe that any rules apply to himself. That's just Bob Durst.”
— Narrator, [01:11]

“When this verdict was read aloud and Robert Durst was acquitted, you could hear the gasps in the courtroom. Jaws were on the floor. No one could believe what they’d just heard.”
— [28:50]

“Bob’s problem is that he loves the attention. Loves it. It was like a drug to him.”
— Narrator, [33:27]

“We, the jury, find the defendant, Robert Durst, guilty of the crime of first degree murder by Susan Berman.”
— [75:57]

“Breaking news. Real estate heir and convicted murderer Robert Durst has died…The 78 year old went into cardiac arrest and could not be revived.”
— Narrator/Commentator, [79:30]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [04:09] Susan Berman’s murder discovered
• [14:36] Bob’s suspicious actions after Kathie’s disappearance
• [23:02] Durst’s arrest in Texas and bizarre shoplifting incident
• [28:50] Shocking Galveston verdict
• [33:27] Durst’s media addiction and relationship with filmmakers
• [38:28] “Killed them all. Of course.” — the Jinx bathroom confession
• [46:23] Durst’s arrest in New Orleans with elaborate escape gear
• [63:07] Nick Chavin’s testimony: “It was her or me. I had no choice.”
• [65:47] Durst admits: “Would you lie under oath…?” “Yes.”
• [75:57] Verdict delivered — guilty of Susan Berman’s murder
• [79:30] Robert Durst’s death announced

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Tone and Style

The episode balances clinical legal analysis with emotional reflection and personal anecdotes from those involved. The tone is factual but charged—at times incredulous, at times angry, and at times mournful, especially when highlighting the pain of victims’ families.

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In Summary

“The Devil You Know” presents Robert Durst’s story as one of privilege, pathology, and the extraordinary cost of evaded justice. It underscores the impact of media in unearthing truth, the persistence required to bring a powerful defendant to trial, and the hollow sense of closure when the final answers die with their perpetrator.

This episode is a must-listen for true crime enthusiasts and anyone interested in the intersection of power, media, and the justice system.

Transcript

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[Narrator/Commentator]

You're listening to the 2020 True Crime Vault.

Robert Durst is a devilish character.

[Family Member/Commentator]

In 1982, his wife disappears.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Devious, malicious.

Since then, he's been suspected of killing a neighbor.

A fisherman discovered a headless, limbless torso here in the waters of Galveston Bay.

[Narrator]

But this is a guy who doesn't believe that any rules apply to himself.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

Neighbors called police who found the writer dead of a single gunshot wound to the head. I dumbfounded.

[Andrew Jarecki (Filmmaker)]

I never thought that in a hundred.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

Years that she would die. That way.

[Narrator]

He can do whatever he wants, whenever he wants to do it to whoever he wants to do it to.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

Because he was wealthy and he had the power to do it. A very high profile murder trial ended with a verdict that was so surprising, the defendant appeared to be caught off guard. He got a kick out of getting away with things.

[Narrator]

Bob's problem is that he loves the attention.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Robert Durst sense of invincibility. He thinks nothing sticks.

It was a huge blunder for Bob to appear in the Jinx.

Jaws were on the floor. No one could believe what they had just heard.

[Narrator]

Robert Durst, recently the subject of a documentary series Tonight Under Arrest. I get called by my assistant da you better win this case. Do not let this narcissistic psychopath get away with what he has done.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

Radical.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Get your head leave your worry on the doorstep Just direct your feet to.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

The sunny side of the street can't you hear a pitter?

[Narrator/Commentator]

And that habit tune is your sin Life can't be so sweet on the sunny side of the street. I've never forgotten it. Susan Berman's father's favorite song was on the Sunny side of the Street. So I always think of that when I think of her because it became her favorite song too.

[Officer Rashad Sharif (LAPD)]

I'm Officer Rashad Sharif from the Los Angeles Police Department. That was Christmas Eve 2000, and it was a nice Southern California December. 70 degrees, clear skies.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

The street there is one of the main thoroughfares from West Hollywood, Hollywood area to the Valley.

[Officer Rashad Sharif (LAPD)]

We received a radio call, we started heading that way, up to The Canyon.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

It'S a Beverly Hills zip code. It is fairly affluent area because it's up in the hills.

[Officer Rashad Sharif (LAPD)]

The call was the open door where the neighbor had not seen their neighbor for a while and the dog is running around loose.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

There was a rear door that was open and they went. And that's when they found the body of Susan Berman.

[Family Member/Commentator]

And her body is laying there. Gunshot to the back of the head, the dog's bloody paw prints all around her body.

[Officer Rashad Sharif (LAPD)]

We discovered one shell casing.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

Police found 55 year old Susan Berman dead of a single gunshot wound to the head. Nothing was stolen and the neighbors report.

[Narrator]

Having never heard a shot fired.

[Family Member/Commentator]

There was no forced entry in that house, so whoever came had to know her.

[Narrator]

And there was no defensive wounds on when her back was to him, he cowardly executed her by putting that gun to the back of her head and pulling the trigger.

[Narrator/Commentator]

About two days later, the Beverly Hills Police Department receives a rather intriguing piece of mail. And then the mystery deepens.

What the murderer did in LA was take note paper and a green pen and wrote cadaver and her address and send it to the Beverly Hills Police Department. And spelled Beverly wrong.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

It was kind of weird because we.

[Narrator]

Thought who uses the word cadaver?

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

And who would send a letter to the Beverly Hills Police?

[Narrator]

It's like somebody doesn't want her laying.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

There for any length of time.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Little did Detective Coltrane know that solving this case and bringing that someone to justice would take 20 years. The combined efforts of the LAPD, and the FBI, 50 law clerks, nine prosecutors and a two year trial.

[Family Member/Commentator]

Susan was the only child of a major Vegas gangster. Her father, Davey Berman, they called him Davey the Jew.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

And then the day that Bugsy Siegel was shot in la, him and five others walked into the Flamingo and took over the Flamingo.

[Family Member/Commentator]

She would do her homework in the casino counting room, using the chips to do her math.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Her dad loved Susan, spoiled her rotten. And he was a quiet man, but very forceful and very well respected. And Susan just absolutely is adore him.

When Susan was only 12, her father died on the operating table. He was in the hospital for routine surgery. And this was a huge blow to Susan and it really marked her for the rest of her life.

[Family Member/Commentator]

Her mother couldn't handle it either. Within a year when she was 13, her mother died, officially by suicide.

[Narrator/Commentator]

After her father died, Susan was living in Idaho with her father's brother Chickie.

Chickie put her into college at ucla. And that's where Susan met Bobby Durst. He was in a master's program for a year at ucla and she was getting her bachelor's degree. He came from money, she came from money. They both led privileged childhoods. So Susan went on to UC Berkeley to get a master's degree in journalism.

[Narrator]

When Susan graduated from Berkeley, she went to work for the San Francisco examiner and ended up meeting Nick Chavin.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

So I was with Susan Berman and that's when she said to I got a friend I want you to meet. He's my best friend. We went to school together at ucla. She says, you two are destined to be bad boys in love.

[Andrew Jarecki (Filmmaker)]

They got along like gangbusters. And of course, Susan was in the middle of all that. So they were like the Three Musketeers.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

I was starting in real estate advertising, and Bob is like a mogul in real estate and he's the eldest son of the Durst family and he is without question the heir to all this. Until his wife disappeared, it changed everything.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Robert and Kathie Durst appeared to have the entire fairy tale.

Kathy Durst was my best friend. And the last conversation that I had with Kathy was a very powerful conversation, according to Gilberta.

[Officer Rashad Sharif (LAPD)]

She said, if anything happens to me.

[Narrator/Commentator]

You'Ll check it out. I'm afraid of what Bobby might do.

[Officer Rashad Sharif (LAPD)]

That was the last she ever heard from her again.

[Narrator/Commentator]

What's developed Saint police are questions about.

The mysterious disappearance of Durst's wife Kathleen in 1982.

And most recently the December.

2000 execution style murder of Susan Berman.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

The relationship between those two cases are so interrelated. Kathy's death ultimately led to Susan's death.

[Narrator]

You have to understand who he is.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Do you know where your wife is.

[Narrator]

Before you can understand what he did?

[Officer Rashad Sharif (LAPD)]

The Durst organization is a very large real estate empire. They're kind of behind the scenes and quiet. Unlike the Trumps, you don't see their names plastered all over buildings.

[Narrator/Commentator]

It's a billion dollar company that owns some of the most prestigious properties in New York.

Seymour Durst, Bob's father, was the company's dynamo. He was the driving force.

[Officer Rashad Sharif (LAPD)]

They are responsible for the whole revitalization of Times Square.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Their skyscrapers helped form the New York skyline.

[Andrew Jarecki (Filmmaker)]

Robert Durst grew up in Scarsdale and he York in a very affluent area. Bob was a difficult child. He didn't excel in school. He was socially separated from both his family and friends.

[Narrator/Commentator]

His mother either jumped or accidentally fell off the family roof at their house in Scarsdale. And Bob Claire claims to have seen it at age 7.

[Narrator]

Bob Durst grew up the oldest of four children.

[Narrator/Commentator]

And he was the One who was set to inherit it all. He was the one who was set to take over the family business.

[Family Member/Commentator]

Bobby Durst meets this beautiful woman, Kathleen McCormack. She was a tenant in one of the buildings his family owned in New York City.

[Narrator/Commentator]

City.

[Officer Rashad Sharif (LAPD)]

They couldn't be more different. Robert Durst was Jewish. Kathy was Catholic. Bob came from a privileged life. Kathy came from a working class family.

[Narrator]

She's 19 and Bob's almost 30. Bob was this, you know, dashing, I'm gonna do whatever I want. And Kathy's a kid.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

My sister Kathy, she always wanted to make a contribution. She started going to school at Western Connecticut State College. She got her four year degree in nursing. And she said, I want to be a doctor. I can give more. I've got more to give.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Kathy was a student at the Einstein Medical School in the Bronx.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

She said to me, I'm going to be the first Durst to be an md, a doctor. She goes, because in Jewish families, that's an honor.

[Family Member/Commentator]

Bobby and Kathy, from the beginning, seemed to have a wonderful marriage. It wasn't the money that she loved. She loved him.

[Andrew Jarecki (Filmmaker)]

Bob's father had this huge business that was growing, and he wanted his eldest son to work in the business.

[Narrator/Commentator]

But not only did he not like the real estate business, he wasn't really very good at it.

[Andrew Jarecki (Filmmaker)]

He would show up to work and shorts and a T shirt, which is, you know, the real estate business is not like that. It's a very formal business.

[Family Member/Commentator]

You know, Bobby was a real weirdo. You know, he did things like burp out loud and think it was funny.

[Andrew Jarecki (Filmmaker)]

He told us that he would pee in wastebaskets.

[Narrator]

He can do whatever he wants whenever he wants to do it. That's how he's lived his life. That's just Bob Durst.

[Narrator/Commentator]

And it wasn't that long before the outlandish behavior actually morphed into something far more serious and even dangerous.

[Officer Rashad Sharif (LAPD)]

There was the one incident at Christmas time when he wanted to leave a family get together at Kathy's. And Kathy wasn't ready to leave. And he basically grabbed her by the hair and pulled her out.

[Narrator/Commentator]

And I remember January 31st of 1982, Kathy came for dinner and was quite on edge. Had been fighting with Bob for most of the weekend. Bob would call the house, I want you home.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

Now.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Kathy comes home to the cottage that she shared with Bob in South Salem, New York. She was angry that Bob had demanded that she come home. Kathy wanted to drive back into Manhattan so that she could go to school the next day.

According to Robert Durst. He takes her to the Katona train station to board a train bound for Manhattan. The next day, the dean of Kathy's medical school gets a call from a woman who claims to be Kathie Durst, complaining of a stomachache, and said that she couldn't show up that day.

And Bob didn't report her missing until five days after Bob last saw her. And he didn't go to the police in South Salem. He went to the 20th Precinct on the Upper west side of Manhattan. This sent the investigation off on the wrong track trajectory.

He brought a magazine in with his father and Harry Helmsley and Donald Trump's picture on the COVID to say, this is who I am.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

He told me that he had not spoken to his wife in four or five days. But he went on to explain to me how she was a medical student.

[Narrator]

And that she would take these clinical studies at hospitals and would remain in.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

Their dorms for days at a time. So it seemed reasonable to me at that point.

[Andrew Jarecki (Filmmaker)]

And there were doormen at Bob and Kathy's building in New York who were saying that Kathy came home that night.

[Narrator/Commentator]

The police believed Bob, and they only did their investigation in Manhattan.

So once the media got wind that Kathy had disappeared, there was a lot of interest in this case. And Susan Berman became Robert Durst's media spokesperson.

[Narrator]

Susan was very smart. She's very manipulative.

[Officer Rashad Sharif (LAPD)]

Susan, who had shield him from the press and basically paint unflattering stories about Kathy, how she probably just ran off with someone.

[Narrator/Commentator]

The police did not have a firm grasp of what exactly had happened.

[Andrew Jarecki (Filmmaker)]

And.

[Narrator/Commentator]

And by the end of 1982, it was a cold case.

[Officer Rashad Sharif (LAPD)]

The first case came to my attention in 1999. It was just so interesting how she was never found in all these years. And looking at the case, it really piqued my interest. So I just started digging into things.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Two weeks ago, a fisherman discovered a headless, limbless torso here in the waters of Galveston Bay.

[Officer Rashad Sharif (LAPD)]

So I get a call that a guy named Bob Durst has been arrested in Galveston, Texas, of all places, for murdering his neighbor. And first thing I asked, is it our Bob Durst?

[Narrator/Commentator]

After Kathy goes missing, the police investigation went absolutely nowhere. And even though Bob Durst may have been looked at, there was nothing to formally charge him with anything to do with the disappearance of his wife.

In a newspaper interview with the New York Post, Robert Durst said he thought his wife was still alive, and he offered a reward to help find her.

The circle of friends immediately questioned, why was it a missing persons and Not a homicide. We were sure that our friend was dead. New York City police insisted they had no evidence to support that theory.

Nearly two decades later, a very astute New York State Police detective named Joseph Becerra, he decides he's going to open up an investigation.

[Officer Rashad Sharif (LAPD)]

How can this woman just disappear off the face of the earth? She was about to graduate medical school. She had everything to live for.

[Narrator/Commentator]

He decided to reopen it with the graces of the then District Attorney of Westchester County, Jeanine Pirro.

We now are looking at this case differently. We're not sure that she left Westchester.

[Officer Rashad Sharif (LAPD)]

So Susan Berman was Bob's best friend. Susan acted as basically a spokesperson for Bob, basically to shield him from the press. She was key to everything we were looking for here in New York regarding Kathy's disappearance. She was one person I really wanted to speak to.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Stunningly, Susan, Susan Berman is murdered before detectives have an opportunity to talk to her.

[Officer Rashad Sharif (LAPD)]

When I got the news that Susan Berman was murdered, I felt like a punch in the gut.

[Narrator/Commentator]

He was extremely afraid of being arrested and extremely afraid of Jeanine Pirro.

And it's right at this time that Bob Durst simply disappears. Until there's a shocking development. Just months of later.

A 13 year old boy was fishing with his father on the coast of Galveston when he noticed something in the water.

The first object the police pull out of the water is a triple wrapped garbage bag.

The poor boy found the torso.

It was a small man. His legs and arms had been severed. His head was missing.

There was a mountain of evidence in those garbage bags.

Pieces of trash from a certain address. Those items told the police the next place they needed to look.

And that address led police right to a rooming house where the victim, Morris Black lived. They discovered a trail of blood that starts in Morris Black's house, crisscrosses down the hallway, and leads into the kitchen rented by a deaf mute woman. But of course, that person was robber Durst dressed in drag.

Bob had rented this room in Galveston posing as a mute woman by the name of Dorothy Signer. Dorothy was someone that he had attended high school with.

Robert Durst was in Galveston hiding from Jeanine Pirro. Robert Durst would write notes to people, you know, because of course, he didn't want to use his lower voice. One of the reasons that he did that was so he wouldn't sound like a man trying to be a woman.

Well, these two men, Morris and Bob, according to Bob, used to go across the causeway to Pelican island to shoot Bob's guns, his handguns, I had gotten.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

To know Morris, and one day he said, you have no idea the things that I know. I can never talk to anybody about this, and it's just killing me.

[Narrator]

The problem for Bob is, is that Morris Black represented a connection between who he was and where he was.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Durst was worried that Morris Black knew who he was, and he was afraid that he would tell police.

Robert Durst became the prime suspect in the murder of Morris Black, so police wanted to find him right away.

Among the items recovered by police was a prescription for eyeglasses. They call the optometrist's office and tell him to be on the lookout. If this person comes to claim these glasses, call us. And that's exactly what happened.

The clerk called the police, and they were waiting outside for. For Bob, And they found inside his car a bow saw.

He had marijuana in the car, and he had a weapon that was illegal in Texas, so he was arrested for those. He was also arrested for the murder.

So Bob's bail was set at $300,000.

Detective Cody Kazlas made a wisecrack. Well, you got it. And Earth made a wise crack back. Not on me.

[Family Member/Commentator]

This money gets wired from New York, and he gets out on bail. At that point, they were like, who is this guy?

[Narrator/Commentator]

For him, $300,000 bail was chump change.

But instead of facing justice, he goes on the run.

Well, he got in his car, and he started driving. Ultimately, he had Morris Black's license and his ID and he rented a car in Alabama. Meanwhile, there is a national manhunt underway to find Bob Durst.

Police wind up busting Robert Durst in a shoplifting incident in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, at a Wegmans grocery store. He is busted shoplifting a sandwich, a band aid, and a newspaper.

[Family Member/Commentator]

When he stole that sandwich, he had $38,000 in the trunk of his car.

[Narrator/Commentator]

They realized, though, very quickly, that this was no ordinary shoplifter. This was the man who was the subject of a nationwide manhunt, and they sent him back down to Texas to face justice.

There were reporters from all over the country coming to Galveston to watch this trial.

[Family Member/Commentator]

He gets on the stand, admits he killed him, admits he dismembered him. Bobby Durst is arrested for murder of his neighbor, who he chopped up and put his body parts in Galveston Bay.

[Narrator/Commentator]

But it wasn't until the fall of 2003 that the trial began.

Are we ready to bring the jury up? I'm Susan Criss, and I'm the judge who presided over the Durst murder trial in Galveston, Texas. There were Reporters from all over the country coming to Galveston to watch this trial. One of the strangest courtroom cases in the country.

By now, it's getting a lot of coverage.

The millionaire black sheep Robert Durst, his fall from grace has all of New York talking.

[Family Member/Commentator]

Really, it was more about the murderer in this case, like, what the hell happened to Bobby Durst?

[Narrator/Commentator]

There was a whole lot of people who thought that a guilty conviction for him was going to be a slam dunk.

Unlike with the disappearance of Kathy or the murder of Susan Berman, there was a mountain of evidence tying Bob to the murder scene.

Robert Durst had the luxury of hiring a Fort Knox of defense attorneys. These are some really high profile guys.

He hires the two best legal gunslingers in the state of Texas, Dick DeGuerin and Dave Ramsey. And then to round out the trio of lawyers, they brought in Chip Lewis.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

Everybody in Galveston's been real nice to us.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Dick Deguara is very much a Texas trial lawyer. He's got the cowboy hat. He is disciplined. He is professional to an extreme.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

As far as a defense, first, we had to divorce the bizarre facts from the case, from what actually happened when Morris Black died.

[Narrator]

This case is not about what Bob Durst did after Morris Black died.

[Narrator/Commentator]

From the get go, Durst and his lawyers admitted that he killed Morris Black, but they claimed that he acted in self defense.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

The gun went off with Morris Black's finger on the trigger.

[Narrator/Commentator]

All right, please.

Where the defense's argument involves self defense, it's not uncommon for defendants to take the stand. And Robert Durst did just that in dramatic fashion.

[Family Member/Commentator]

He gets on the stand, admits he killed him, admits he dismembered him.

[Narrator]

Durst spoke candidly in court today, taking jurors through the pitfalls of his life, from his battle with bulimia as a child to his ongoing battle with his addiction to marijuana and alcohol.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Dick Daguerrean staged a pretty dramatic reenactment of the dispute for that broke out between Block and Durst.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

And you grabbed him like that and wrestled him, and you've tumbled to the ground.

[Narrator]

Would you be acting reasonably?

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

Once the issue is fairly raised of self defense, then it's incumbent on the prosecution to disprove it beyond a reasonable doubt.

[Narrator]

Every little saw mark in each and.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

Every one of those leg bones and arm bones has got a whole lot of intent in it.

[Narrator/Commentator]

The state. The state just thought it was going to be impossible for anyone to convince a jury that a case where you cut the body up and you took the head away could have been self defense.

Don't cut somebody up, another human being.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

Into pieces, bag him up, dump them in the bag when you act in self defense.

[Narrator/Commentator]

The jury deliberated several days over this. There's a point where I thought they might end up being hung.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

We're all sitting there figuratively chewing our fingernails.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Good morning. You may all be seated. Well, the jury has sent a note indicating that they have a verdict, and.

They give it to the clerk, and the judge looks at it.

Will the defendant please rise and kind.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

Of pause just an instant with the jury.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Find the defendant, Robert Durst, not guilty.

When this verdict was read aloud and Robert Durst was acquitted, you could hear the gasps in the courtroom. Jaws were on the floor. No one could believe what they'd just heard.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

A very high profile murder trial ended with a verdict that was so surprising, the defendant appeared to be caught off guard. Your client sure seemed shocked when he heard the verdict. Were you? I wasn't shocked, and I don't think his expression was one of shock. It was one of great relief. We could not convict him. He is not guilty.

[Narrator/Commentator]

I wouldn't be asking him to escort my daughter to her senior prom this year. But Gersty's not the only crazy person in Galveston.

The defense of self defense worked in Galveston. You have laws in Texas that allow not only defending yourself and others, but your property.

Although Bob was acquitted, there were still two other charges lodged against him. Tampering with evidence, meaning cutting up Morris Black's body and bail jumping. Ultimately, Bob pleaded guilty to those charges and served some more time in jail before he was free.

By the time Bob was released in 2006, Westchester, New York, police had not yet announced developments in the Kathie Durst investigation, and it seemingly went cold again. Around the same time, the Durst organization cut ties with Bob in return for a $65 million payout.

Bob loved the attention he got after the verdict.

They even make fun of him on Saturday Night Live.

[Narrator]

What's your name, bud?

[Narrator/Commentator]

My name is Robert Durst.

Law and Order featured a Durst storyline.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

You testified that you dismembered Mr. Barry's body because, quote, you knew what the police would think.

[Narrator/Commentator]

And in 2010, the legal saga involving Robert Durst was encapsulated in a movie.

[Andrew Jarecki (Filmmaker)]

I had four followed the story of Bob Durst. When it happened, you know, I was very interested in it. So we wrote a screenplay that's all.

[Family Member/Commentator]

Good things, all good things, starring Ryan Gosling as Bobby Durst.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

I'm not going to be able to subsidize your lifestyle, which I don't think that you want. I don't want that.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Kirsten Dunst played Kathy.

It won't be like when you grow up.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

What do you know about it?

[Narrator/Commentator]

All Good Things was a semi fictionalized telling of the Bob Durst story, but it put him at the center of three murders.

[Andrew Jarecki (Filmmaker)]

Later, I found out that he'd gotten a copy of the script, even though the script was on lockdown. Nothing's on lockdown in Hollywood. He somehow knew somebody and he was able to get a copy of the script, and he read it, and he was very intrigued by it. Bob called us right before All Good Things premiered, and he wanted to see it. He was in Los Angeles, so we drove over to his studio and we arranged for him to have a screening.

[Narrator/Commentator]

And after seeing the movie, he made what is probably the blunder of his life.

In 2010, all good things is released. The movie is well received, but the person who had the most praise for this movie was, believe it or not, Robert Durst himself. And he enjoyed the movie so much that after watching it, he reached out to the movie's producers, Mark Smerling and Andrew Jarecki, and sparked a relationship with them.

[Andrew Jarecki (Filmmaker)]

It became very clear to me that Andrew and Bob connected in a way that I did not connect. They both come from extraordinarily wealthy families.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Robert Durst grew to trust Andrew Jarecki and Mark Smerling and agreed to tell his story in his own words.

So later that December, Bob sat down for an entire weekend, giving an interview at a hotel in Santa Monica.

[Andrew Jarecki (Filmmaker)]

The opportunity to sit down with him in an open interview situation seemed irresistible. We did three full days with him, and Bob is very open. He's almost glib. I always felt like Bob had a compulsion to confess.

[Narrator]

I disagree with the idea that Bob was trying to confess. Bob's problem is that he loves, loves the attention, loves it. It was like a drug to him.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Those interviews became the documentary that we all know as the Jinx.

[Andrew Jarecki (Filmmaker)]

Bob Durst seems to be weighed down heavily by his life and his decisions. And I think he always saw himself as a jinx. Everything he touched fell apart, were exploded.

[Narrator/Commentator]

So it's very obvious in the first interview that the Jinx did with Bob Durst what kind of little ticks he displayed when he would sit down.

[Andrew Jarecki (Filmmaker)]

When he starts to get nervous, he starts to burp a lot and stretch and yawn, and he talks to himself.

[Narrator/Commentator]

No healy purpose, that his face would twitch and he would blink. You had to really look at and figure out how much was true and how Much wasn't.

Now Jarecki and Smerling have all this footage, 20 hours of interviews with Bob Durst. The next objective is to get friends and family and associates to tell their part of the story. That was not going to be an easy task. In fact, it took four years.

[Andrew Jarecki (Filmmaker)]

In 2011, we start doing interviews. One of the interviews is Sarah Kaufman, who is Susan Berman's. He's not adopted by Susan, but might as well have been adopted son. I stayed in LA to keep doing some research, and Sarah called me the next day and he said he had found something. He said, can you come by? And I said, sure. So you could see in the jinx I could go by. And Sareb shows me this letter. And the writing on the letter is identical almost to the writing on this cadaver note that been sent to the Beverly Hills Police Department after Susan was murdered. We fly back to New York, we put in a safe deposit box, and we sit down and we go, oh.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

My God, what are we gonna do next?

[Andrew Jarecki (Filmmaker)]

We realized we had something that was evidence in a murder trap.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Every documentary filmmaker hopes to find that golden nugget, that unique thing that blows the project wide open. They could never have imagined what was about to happen. They take these two identical envelopes and plan to show them to Bob Durst with camera rolling. It did not disappoint.

[Family Member/Commentator]

In the jinx, Bobby denies that he wrote the note, but he says whoever sent that note is the murderer. Well, Andrew Jarecki says to him, what about this?

[Narrator/Commentator]

They put up the two envelopes which were so startlingly alike. The block lettering was the same. The telltale misspelling of Beverly was also the same. And Bob looked a little bit stunned and flustered, and they asked him to identify which was which.

[Andrew Jarecki (Filmmaker)]

Can you tell me which one of.

[Narrator/Commentator]

These you wrote or which one you didn't write?

[Narrator]

No.

[Narrator/Commentator]

This was the dilemma. They had discovered a new piece of evidence, and it was remarkable. It wasn't the whole case, but it was a remarkable piece of evidence. So where does the line between their obligation as a judge, journalists end and their obligations as a good citizen begin?

[Andrew Jarecki (Filmmaker)]

We decided that we would give it to law enforcement at some point.

[Narrator]

When we left Mark Smerling and Andrew Dreky after first seeing the footage of.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

Some of the things that Bob had.

[Narrator]

Said after seeing the cadaver note, John and I absolutely knew Robert Durst is.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

Good for this murder.

[Narrator/Commentator]

For the next two years, LA is keeping a watchful eye tracking his cell phone now. The prosecutors, meanwhile, are building their case. Andrew Jarecki And Mark Smerling are waiting through hours and hours and hours of footage. And then they make another remarkable discovery.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

Rolling.

[Andrew Jarecki (Filmmaker)]

We had done the last interview with Bob. The process is that when we're doing the interview, there's multiple mics, multiple cameras. There's a mic overhead. Bob's got a radio mic, which is a wireless mic pinned to him. Bob goes into the bathroom, comes out of the bathroom. I shoot him. He leaves. And that day's over. The footage goes back to the editors. And one day I hear the scream from the back editing room. One of the editors, she comes out, she goes, you got to come back here. And I go back. She plays me the end of the interview. You can hear the click of the bathroom door. And he goes, there it is.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

You're caught. Kill them all. Of course. What the hell did I do? Like, oh, my God.

[Andrew Jarecki (Filmmaker)]

And then the tape stops.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

Done.

[Andrew Jarecki (Filmmaker)]

That was recorded. When the interview was recorded in 2012, we didn't discover it until 2014. So it was two years after the interview that we discovered the bathroom recording.

[Narrator/Commentator]

So the big news was that in 2015, HBO was gonna bring out the this new six part documentary called the the Life and Death of Robert Durst. Their promos were great, and it was up on a big billboard in Times Square, which is Durst territory.

There's a big ad campaign and lots of anticipation leading up to the series. It finally premieres. But many, meanwhile, prosecutors have a big concern. Bob Durst is out there free and with lots of cash.

[Narrator]

Our concern was that what's going to happen is once the Jinx airs, Bob is going to end up taking off for Cuba.

[Narrator/Commentator]

After every episode of the Jinx, I was talking to Bob and he still felt that he was in pretty good shape after episode four.

4.

But when I called him to talk about episode five, I could tell he was agitated. And I knew I wasn't going to be talking to Bob Durst ever again.

He realized the gravity of what he had said, and he went on the run.

Once again, the FBI is pinging his phone to keep tabs on Bob, and they notice he's driving east. And suddenly it goes blank. Bob's turned off his phone and they have no idea where he is.

[Family Member/Commentator]

I feared Bobby Durst.

[Narrator/Commentator]

He could hire anybody to do anything, and I was scared of him.

This was the most sensational, the most twisted, the most bizarre story kill I've ever covered in my career.

It was a huge blunder for Bob to appear in the Jigs.

And you've got this rich guy with all the power in the world.

[Officer Rashad Sharif (LAPD)]

Bob is very cunning and manipulative.

[Narrator]

Robert Durst, a real estate heir, under arrest.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

Arrest for a murder that happened 15 years ago.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Charged with killing his friend Susan Berman.

And he murdered her. Here's my best friend.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

Boom. This is Berman murder.

[Narrator]

The Kathy Durst murder.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

They belong together.

[Narrator/Commentator]

He feared that some of these witnesses might get whacked.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

He said, hey, Nikki, guess what? Cutting up a body is only a misdemeanor here in Texas. He thought that was pretty funny.

[Narrator]

This is a guy who doesn't believe that any rules apply to himself. That's just Bob Durst.

[Narrator/Commentator]

It was clearly a note of what to do to dispose of a body.

[Narrator]

Do not let this narcissistic psychopath get away with what he has done.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Robert Durst has the sense of invincibility. He crawled under the radar for so many decades.

[Family Member/Commentator]

In 1982, his wife Kathy disappears. Nobody thought she disappeared. Something terrible happened to Kathy.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Even though Bob Durst may have been looked at as a suspect or a person of interest, there was nothing to formally charge him.

[Officer Rashad Sharif (LAPD)]

The case just went cold as though Kathy fell off the face of the earth.

[Narrator/Commentator]

What happened to Kathleen Durst? State police are taking a fresh look at the case. And there is one person who could crack the case wide open.

[Officer Rashad Sharif (LAPD)]

Susan Berman was Bob's best friend. I think she was key to everything we were looking for here in New York regarding Kathy's disappearance.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

55 year old old Susan Berman found dead of a single gunshot wound to the head.

[Officer Rashad Sharif (LAPD)]

When I got the news that Susan Berman was murdered, I felt like a punch in the gut.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Ten months after Susan body is found, there's another incident, this time in Texas.

Galveston police say Robert Durst killed his.

Next door neighbor and dumped his body into Galveston Bay.

There was a mountain of evidence tying Bob to the murder scene. This seemed like an open and shut case.

Did the jury find the defendant Robert Durst not guilty.

Robert Durst is acquitted of murder in a verdict that not only shocked Robert Durst, but shocked the entire world.

[Officer Rashad Sharif (LAPD)]

Bob thought that he was the smartest one in the room and he probably thought, why not give my side, Let me appear on this program. I can conn them just like I conned everyone else in my life.

[Narrator/Commentator]

It was a huge blunder for Bob to appear in the Jinx. That's what spurred LA to reopen the investigation.

The Jinx producers shared information with the LA prosecutors that they'd uncovered during production. Both an apparent bathroom confession from Bob and a note that seemed to link him to Susan Bourbon's murder.

This cadaver letter, this big reveal on the jinx, turned out to be the smoking gun that prosecutors were looking for.

[Narrator]

We were shocked that it takes Bob, seeing it on tv, to go, oh, I'm in trouble. But that's what happened. The Los Angeles Police Department detectives were.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

Monitoring Bob, and they know that he's.

[Narrator]

Very likely going to run.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Knowing full well that Bob Durst has money and means to get out of Dodge, the FBI and the LAPD want to keep their eyes on him as much as possible. The only real way to do that is through his cell phone.

And they notice that Bob has gotten into his car and he's driving east, and suddenly it goes blank. Bob's turned off his phone, and they have no idea where he is. And I thought, holy, he's gonna run.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

Bob had turned off his cell phone.

[Narrator]

So investigators couldn't locate him.

[Officer Rashad Sharif (LAPD)]

And so what happened was he called.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

His voicemail from a phone at the.

[Officer Rashad Sharif (LAPD)]

New Orleans Marriott Hotel, and that gave investigators a lead.

[Narrator/Commentator]

So two FBI agents went to the JW Marriott, and they went up to the desk, the front desk, and they asked the clerk, so, do you have a Bob Durst registered here?

No.

Do you have Dorothy Siner?

No.

And they go through 10 more aliases that Bob had used at one time, time or another. And as they're standing there trying to figure out their next step, who comes waltzing through the door? None other than Bob Durst.

Once investigators get their chance to search the room, they find a gold mine of evidence of a man hoping to be on the run.

They find a latex mask, a professional one that you could pull over and look like a completely different person. They find money in the hotel room. They find maps, including a big map of the Southeast. They handcuff him to a chair, and Bob happens to mention, oh, by the way, in my jacket, in the closet is a gun.

[Narrator]

Robert Durst, a real estate heir and recently the subject of a documentary series tonight under arrest for a murder that.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

Happened 15 years ago.

[Narrator]

The 71 year old was apprehended at this New Orleans hotel where he was.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Registered under a fake name, Everett Ward.

As soon as the FBI agents detain Bob, the call goes to LA to say, okay, we got him on your murder warrant.

[Narrator]

On that Saturday afternoon, I get called by my assistant D.A. who tells me, okay, we just arrested Bob Durst. You got what you want. You better win this case.

[Narrator/Commentator]

When Robert Durst got arrested, that was the moment for Lewin to take advantage of his detention, and he raced down to New Orleans to interview him.

This is a crazy situation here. Bob, who's well acquainted with law enforcement and the legal system, who is not demanding the lawyer up.

You have the right to the presence.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

Of an attorney before and during any questioning. Do you understand? I understand.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Okay.

[Narrator]

My goal was how can I get him to talk to me? What can I do? And I knew that Bob Durst's favorite topic of conversation is Bob Durst. There's no question that a. Any suspect I've ever had, ever dealt with. You are the most interesting. Bob understood that we had substantial evidence against him.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

You'd like some details from me if I knew.

[Narrator]

Yes. About where Kathy's body is and about what happened to Susan and about what hell gave us. And you would agree with. Agree that you're in the position if you want to tell me more than you have.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

So about that. I'm not about to go that far. Okay.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Durst skirts around the issue of potentially getting a deal from Lewin. And so it begs the question, why are you trying to cut a deal before you're charged if you're truly innocent?

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

Well, you asked me what I thought you wanted to hear. I think what you wanted to hear is what did you do with Kathy?

[Narrator]

Right.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

I tell you those things of being guilty.

[Narrator]

Originally, my thought was that I was only 10 or 20 minutes away from a confession. Over time, what I've realized, Bob will let you get down to the five yard line pretty easily. And you think you're about to score, you're not going to score. He really doesn't start with really playing defense until he gets to the five.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

I'm not about to say to you, John, this is it without my lawyer. Okay.

[Andrew Jarecki (Filmmaker)]

I think there's two sides to Bob Durst. There's this underlying side that feels guilty for it, has a compulsion to confess. But on top of that is his self preservation side.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Robert Durst, the millionaire heir, is in.

Court this morning in New Orleans for a bond hearing. His lawyers trying to free him so he can fight those murder charges in Los Angeles.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

Bob Durst didn't kill Susan Berman. He's ready to end all the rumor and speculation and have a trial. But we're frustrated because the local authorities are considering filing charges on him here and holding him here.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Bob Durst was convicted of the gun charges and is sentenced to 80, 35 months behind bars.

[Andrew Jarecki (Filmmaker)]

He was held up in New Orleans. So that is a absolutely massive gift, essentially by Durst.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

He gave us extra time.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Now the prosecution has the time that it needs to track down witnesses and Find evidence that builds a bulletproof case against Robert Durst.

There were a number of witnesses who were very reluctant to come forward. If Bob could get off in Galveston, he's capable of anything.

Robert Durst is being held in a.

Los Angeles jail tonight.

He's expected back in court in LA.

In two weeks with a trial not until next year.

Durst is due to be arraigned on.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

Monday, charged with killing his friend Susan Berman.

[Narrator/Commentator]

I think Susan wanted to be stood up for. I think the trial, of course, was a great way to honor her.

This trial was as high stakes as it could get, not only for Robert Durst, but for the lead prosecutor, John Lewin, who spent years fighting, focusing on this case.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

If there was any DA to handle that case, John Lewin was the one to handle it. John is going back and re interviewing witnesses. You know, you got to remember a lot of those people when we interviewed them. You're talking about in 2001.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Witnesses may be dead. Evidence is lost. People don't remember. You have all these obstacles in an old case, and there were a number.

Of witnesses who were very reluctant to come forward. If Bob could get off in Galveston, he's capable of anything.

The law allows something called conditional testimony.

A conditional witness is someone who is 65 or older, and you're fearful that they might not make it to trial.

Lewin feared that because of Durst resources, that some of these witnesses might get whacked.

You put those witnesses on the stand, but there's no jury. They testify, it's videotaped, and then later it's played back. When the jury is actually present.

[Narrator]

The truth, the whole truth, and nothing.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

But the truth will help you die.

[Officer Rashad Sharif (LAPD)]

Yes.

[Narrator/Commentator]

I was uncomfortable coming forward. I feared Bobby Durst.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

He's very wealthy. He.

[Narrator/Commentator]

He has long arms.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

He could hire anybody to do anything.

[Narrator/Commentator]

And I was scared of him.

[Narrator]

Did you, in your mind, come to believe who was responsible for Susan's.

[Family Member/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Narrator]

Who was that?

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

My ears.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Miriam testified that at the time of Kathy's disappearance, Susan anxiously confided in her that she had just done a favor for Durst.

[Family Member/Commentator]

She said, I did something to Bennett.

[Narrator/Commentator]

If anything ever happened to me, Bobby did it.

I remember her saying this to me. I didn't know how important it was.

And I didn't think that anybody that I knew in my world would murder somebody.

Pressure was mounting on the prosecutors and investigators working this case to find witnesses to take the stand. And that leads them directly to Nick Chavin.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

Mark, I'm known in show business.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Nick Chabin was most Definitely a creative character. He was a satirist. And it turns out that Susan Berman was actually writing a story about his musical aspirations. And then Susan introduces him to Bob. And the three of them are tight. Thick as thieves. The biggest, best of friends.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

Yeah, these were my two best friends. They were my two best friends, which is a very strange position.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Nick wanted nothing to do with this trial. Nick would have been very happy to just go on the rest of his life and take these secrets to the grave.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

Lewin did everything in the world to get me to talk to. And I wouldn't answer his phone calls and I wouldn't take his phone calls.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Lewin realizes that he's got to draw Nick out.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

I'm working for Miller Advertising and one fine day, the head of the company came into my office and on his finger was a sticky. He said, you've got to call this guy. I said, who? He said, he's a district attorney in la. You gotta call. I says, what?

[Narrator]

This is.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

You have to call him. Hello?

[Narrator]

Hey, Nick, you have. You have John Lewin, Habib Balian and George Shamlian on. Okay, Nick could have told us. Hey, listen, I don't know anything. But instead Nick said, I'm not saying that I don't have information. I'm just not ready to share it yet.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

I tried to answer your questions as best I could tell.

[Narrator]

This everything you know about Bob's possible involvement in either Kathy or Susan's murder and your knowledge of it?

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

I don't know if I have or not. I thought I did, maybe I didn't. I don't know. He pulled all kinds of things. Wasn't Susan your dear friend? Yes. And Bobby's your dear friend. So one of them kills the other. You got to make a choice.

[Narrator]

Honestly, ask yourself, is Bob worth it? If the roles were reversed, would Bob do that for you?

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

Loon is a master at ripping off the bandage, as he described it. Just rip off the bandage, Nick. He got me to cop to what I knew.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Nick Chavin's been carrying around this soul scorching secret for a long time.

[Narrator]

And I told Nick and all that I'm hoping for. You testify under oath that you're honest.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Now he's ready to let it go.

I've been covering big criminal cases for more than two decades. And this was the most sensational, the most twisted, the most bizarre story I.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

Was going to show myself on both.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Sides of the head I've ever covered in my career.

There will never be another legal saga like this.

To build a solid case Against Bob Durst, John Lewin needed to assemble a stellar team of prosecutors.

[Narrator]

There were actually a total of eight prosecutors who worked on this case at different times. We also had probably a total of close to 50 law clerks.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

It was very clear from the beginning that these three cases were interrelated. And for the jury to properly determine.

[Narrator]

The truth, they were gonna have to get the whole picture. We were trying to get the jury to understand that this is a guy who doesn't believe that any rules apply to himself. That's just Bob Durst. He's the most self involved person I've ever seen.

[Narrator/Commentator]

So the trial in Los Angeles is high stakes for both sides.

[Family Member/Commentator]

Bob Durst was already in prison for six years by the time Susan's murder trial started.

[Narrator/Commentator]

This was a man who was in his late 70s, who was battling cancer that appeared to be in the advanced stages. He was frail, he was weak. He was being wheeled in and out of court. He had tubes and medical devices hanging from him. People were wondering every day, is this guy even gonna live to be able to see the duration of this trial?

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

Mr. Lewin will make his opening statement first, and that's because the people have the burden of proof.

[Narrator/Commentator]

After a year of false starts due to Covid and of course Bob's bad health, opening statements at the trial finally begin.

[Narrator]

So there's gonna be three killings that we are going to prove.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Prosecutors also shared their theory for the reason Berman was murdered. Remember that 1982 phone call from Kathy to her med school claiming she was too sick to work? Well, prosecutors say it was really Susan Berman pretending to be Kathy, giving Bob a phony alibi. And they argue Susan's complicity also made her a target.

[Narrator]

Everything starts with Kathy Durst disappearance and death at the hands of Mr. Durst and Mr. Durst alone. And after that, he had to kill Susan Berman because he feared that she was going to talk. And then he had to kill Morris Black because Morris Black knew who he was and was putting pressure on him.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Almost from day one. Prosecutors made it clear that Durst interview in the Jinx would be a key piece of evidence.

[Narrator]

All of the video that you will see has been unedited.

[Narrator/Commentator]

And that so called cadaver note, it would be the linchpin in their case against him.

From the very beginning, his stance was always, I'm not going to show you the jinx. I'm going to show you the raw material.

[Narrator]

This is what he said in 2010. This is the interview with Andrew Jarecki and Mark Smerling.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

Well, to Begin with, you didn't write them. Write the cadaver note. Is that what you're saying? I didn't write the cadaver note.

[Narrator]

In 2012, Mr. Durst made clear the evidence is going to show that this is an absolutely true and correct statement, and this is what he said.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

You're writing a note to the police that only the killer could have written.

[Narrator/Commentator]

On day two, defense attorney Dick DeGuerin throws his cowboy hat into the ring, and he's hoping that same Texas charm that worked down in Galveston will work in LA.

You got DeGuerin coming into the courtroom just like he did in Galveston. He's got his Stetson on, he's got his cowboy boots on. It charmed them in Texas.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

I'm Dick DeGuerin. I'm from Texas. I don't have an accent. At least I don't think I do.

[Narrator/Commentator]

It meant zero in Los Angeles.

He was a cowboy at heart and a very, very good defense attorney with an incredible reputation. Bobby Durst got the best.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

Mr. Lewin has made a fine presentation.

[Narrator]

Very skillful, very slick.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

Mine's not going to be that slick.

[Narrator/Commentator]

De Garrett's strategy was no evidence is evidence. If you have no physical evidence, then that means that Robert Durst did not murder Berman.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

The evidence is lacking, the evidence isn't there. This is a heavyweight bout between two.

[Family Member/Commentator]

People that you know were at the top of their game.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

Bob, did you love Kathy?

[Narrator/Commentator]

Yes, very much.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

Have you ever loved anybody in your life more than Kathy?

[Narrator/Commentator]

No.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

Did you kill her? No.

[Narrator]

We can show without question that Bob is responsible for Kathy's death. We can show circumstantially that Bob got rid of her body. Was it murder or was it manslaughter? We have no idea.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Now the prosecution focuses squarely on the Berman murder. They play the testimony of their star witness, Nick Shaven, best friend to both Bob Durst and Susan Berman.

[Narrator]

How do you feel about being here today?

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

I feel like it's something I have to do sometimes.

[Narrator]

In late 2014, did you have a dinner with Rob?

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

Yes.

[Narrator/Commentator]

So Nick recounts to Lewin exactly what.

Happened with the jury. Find the defendant.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

I hadn't seen him in 10 years. And he called, he acquitted in Galveston. He said, hey, Nikki, guess what? Cutting up a body is only a misdemeanor here in Texas. He thought that was pretty funny. So now he said, let's have dinner to celebrate. I'm coming to New York.

[Narrator/Commentator]

They go to dinner at a little restaurant called Barrawine French Bistro, and they're having dinner. But as they Put on their coats, and they're leaving. Nick realizes they haven't talked about Susie or Kathy.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

We walked out the door and on the sidewalk. I said, you wanted to talk about Susan. And Bob said, I had you. It was her or me. I had no choice. That stunned me. Then I said, you said also you wanted to talk to me about Kathy. He turned on his heel and began walking north away from me. I said, bob, Bob. And he didn't answer. He just kept walking.

[Narrator/Commentator]

So it's a very dramatic moment, and it's basically a confession.

[Family Member/Commentator]

Lewin was masterful. The evidence was unbelievable.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Now it's time for the defense to take its turn. And just as they had done in Galveston, they called defendant Robert Durst to testify.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

Bob, did you kill Susan Burma? No. Do you know who did? No, I do not.

[Narrator/Commentator]

And for the most part, it sounded quite reasonable.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

I got the idea of sending a letter to the Beverly Hills police that Susan was dead at her house. What was your state of mind? I was trying to decide if anyone would believe that I killed Susan Berman if I had no reason.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Then John Lewin takes his turn.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

You may commence your cross examination of the witness, Mr. William.

[Narrator/Commentator]

And he's just starting to warm up.

[Narrator]

I want to congratulate you. You've set the perjury record.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Cross examination begins in the Robert Durst murder trial. Durst attorneys wrapped up his direct examination of his client.

[Narrator]

Mr. Durst. Mr. DeGuerin called you Bob. Do you want me to call you Bob? Do you want me to call you Mr. Durst? What would you prefer?

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

How about sir?

[Narrator]

You can call me sir. He becomes very hostile right off the bat, and it was, you know, downhill from there. Would you lie under oath to help your case?

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

Yes.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Throughout nine days of cross examination, Lewin repeatedly catches Durst in lies, showing that he has been lying for years and that he would be willing to protect himself by lying.

[Narrator]

Did you not say that you would lie about whether you murdered Susan Berman, whether you murdered Kathie Durst, and whether you murdered Morris Black?

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

If I had killed them, I would lie about them.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Lewin must have been doing cartwheels inside his body, because that was a gift, you know, in other words, I'm a big fat liar.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

When he admitted to John Lewin that he would perjure himself, I looked at Mr. DeGuerin because, you know, they had lost control of their own, you know, client. I think I need to congratulate you. You filled up 18 lines on my.

[Narrator]

And I want to congratulate you. You've set the perjury record, your honor. Your honor, I am not.

[Narrator/Commentator]

It was very tense between Robert Durst and John Lewin.

Lewin confronts Durst about a piece of evidence in Durst's own handwriting. It was referred to as the dig note, and it was found in his trash can not long after Kathy's disappearance. Written on it were a number of words including town dump, bridge, dig, boat, shovel, among other things.

The dig note was very bad for Robert Durst. It was clearly a note of what to do to dispose of a body.

[Narrator]

So, Mr. Durst, would you agree this looks like a list of how you would get rid of a body?

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

That's what it looks like to you.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Durst tried to write off the note as nothing sinister. It was just a mundane to do list.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

Bridge is an abbreviation of Bridgehampton. Dig is for digital. Boat is the sailboat that it needed to go to the town dump. Shovel was the snow shovels. One of the most, I think, entertaining or hilarious parts of the whole trial was how Durst sort of reverse engineer the meaning of everything on on that dig note.

[Family Member/Commentator]

But that's his mentality. I'm Bob Durst. I can do and say whatever I want.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Lewin went on to question Durst about the now famous smoking gun moment from the jinx.

[Narrator]

All right, Mr. Durst, I want to talk about what has been referred to as the bathroom audio. You said, there it is, you're caught. Correct.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

I accept that.

[Narrator]

And you would agree that while you were in the bathroom, Mr. Durst, you said the words killed them all. Of course correct.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

I think what I said was, they'll all think I killed them all.

[Narrator]

Can we queue it up, please? Want you to listen, Mr. Durst.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

Killers.

[Narrator]

So you think that you added they'll all think before the words I killed them all, of course. Is that correct?

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

That's correct.

[Narrator]

Please play it again. Please play it right before. I want you to listen very carefully. I want you to tell me when you hear any of the words you just described. Of course you understand, Mr. Durst, that your attorneys have already stipulated that what we just played is unaltered, unedited footage.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

I don't think the mic picks up everything I said.

[Narrator/Commentator]

And throughout the trial, Lewin continued to remind jurors that Durst is a self admitted liar.

[Narrator]

Would you agree that the admissions that you've made about your prior perjury are extremely relevant for somebody assessing your credibility?

[Narrator/Commentator]

Yes.

Lewin had Durst in the palm of his hands. There were so many instances where Durst was tripped up on the stand and made Admissions.

But would jurors agree and put an end to Robert Durst decades of evading justice?

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

Clerk, will please read the verdict.

[Narrator/Commentator]

We, the jury, find the defendant, Robert Durst.

This was a case that was stranger than fiction. But what this case did above all was it resurfaced Secrets from the past.

Bob showed a remarkable facility to make up stories at the drop of a hat and to pack them full of details, which makes you think they must be true.

Listen to what he says about the discovery of Susan Berman's body.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

Was she cold to the touch? Was she warm to the touch? Could you tell? I put my hand over her face. I might have left that out to see if she was breathing, see if I could feel breath. And it felt cold.

[Narrator/Commentator]

And the most compelling part to me of the cross examination was when he was talking about finding her body, her breath felt.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

Her face felt cold.

[Narrator]

She's dead. What do you mean her breath felt cold? Was she breathing on you when you got there?

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

No, she was not breathing.

[Narrator]

So how can her breath be cold when she's dead? She's a stiff.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

I was putting my hand on her face and it was cold.

[Narrator/Commentator]

He slipped. I mean, he just absolutely slipped. I don't think you could have said anything more incriminating if you had a Hollywood script writer writing it.

His whole thing is to give as.

[Andrew Jarecki (Filmmaker)]

Many details as possible to the lie.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

And the problem with that is the.

[Andrew Jarecki (Filmmaker)]

More lies you have have the more.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

Opportunity for reality to intersect with the.

[Andrew Jarecki (Filmmaker)]

Lie and prove that you're lying.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

Had you made plans to spend Christmas with Susan Berman? Yes.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Bobby had told her he was going to come to California. And she didn't know when he was going to arrive. Exactly. And she told friends, hey, we're going to get together. We don't know exactly when.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

Mr. Lewin, you may resume your cross examination. Mr. Durst.

[Narrator/Commentator]

In a coup de grace to me, they pull out Susan's day planner.

[Narrator]

Mr. Durst, you recognize this to be Susan's handwriting, correct?

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

It might be Susan's handwriting.

[Narrator/Commentator]

She wrote everything down in there. Everything was there. All her appointments and even small to do tasks were in there as well.

That's important because Durst insists that he came out west just to take a pre planned trip with Berman up the California coast. While the prosecution had a totally different explanation, they were convinced that Bob Durst came west for one reason, to murder Susan Berman.

[Narrator]

We're gonna go turn to the 22nd. This is the day that you originally were supposed to meet Susie Berman, is that correct?

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

Correct.

[Narrator]

Do you see any notation on the 22nd, Mr. Durst, that references you.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

I do not specifically see anything describing the fact that I was going to arrive that evening.

[Narrator]

That calendar told the jury Bob was lying.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

Susan Berman wasn't going up north with him on a trip.

[Narrator]

She was getting her hair done. Mr. Durst, this is my last question. Did you kill Susan Berman?

[Family Member/Commentator]

No.

[Narrator]

But if you had, you would lie about it, correct?

[Narrator/Commentator]

Correct.

[Narrator]

Nothing further.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

Thank you.

[Narrator/Commentator]

After a trial that lasted 24 months, the prosecution finally rested its case.

[Narrator]

This case can be summed up to.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

You in nine simple words.

[Narrator]

It was her or me. I had no choice. This man murdered Susan Berman. He murdered her. Do not let this narcissistic psychopath get away with what he has done, what he did to Susan Berman.

[Narrator/Commentator]

But one of the most powerful arguments from Robert Durst's legal team came during the closing arguments. Dick Daguerren looks at the jury and says to them, we do not convict folks based on made for TV movies. And that was a reference to the media frenzy that surrounded the Jinx documentary.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

Nine days of beating up on a sick old man that can't defend himself. I've known him for 20 years, and I am proud to stand before you and defend Robert Durst when almost no.

[Narrator]

One in the world.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

Would do so.

[Family Member/Commentator]

The jury was out a few days, a reasonable amount of time.

[Narrator/Commentator]

The verdict came in, and Durst was exposed to Covid and couldn't be in the courtroom.

But Judge Windham refuses to delay the reading of the jury's verdict for one more moment.

We, the jury, find the defendant, Robert Durst, guilty of the crime of first degree murder by Susan Berman. Now to a court case that has garnered headlines across the country for decades. Overnight, a jury convicted Robert Durst of first degree murder in the shooting death of his best friend.

[Officer Rashad Sharif (LAPD)]

And I remember I was at a gathering when I got the phone call about it, and I went into another room and just teared up.

[Narrator]

We are extremely gratified and appreciative of the verdict that the jury reached in this case. We think that it was supported by the evidence.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Once I saw the evidence for each of the three crimes, I felt like it was pretty clear and overwhelming to me.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

He. He confessed three times on tape when he said, you know, killed them all. Confession number two was when he admitted to writing the cadaver note. And number three, it was either her or me. I had no choice.

[Family Member/Commentator]

Nobody saw Bobby Durst's reaction to the guilty verdict, But I could tell you what everybody else's reaction was. Hallelujah. Finally.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Now that's not the end of the story, though, because there's never an end of this story.

He's getting away with another get out of jail free card, if you will, once again.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

All right, welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, for the sentencing proceedings, it's the judgment and sentence of this court, Mr. Durst, that you be imprisoned in the state prison for the term prescribed by law. That is life in prison.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Robert Durst was sentenced to life without the possibility of parole, never to run away again.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

I think everybody felt justice was being served in the fact that he was tried, convicted, and that put closure on a lot for a lot of people. Defendant Robert Durst is committed to the custody of the sheriff for delivery to the Department of Corrections. Forthwith. I went to the mausoleum and was able to go visit Susie and tell her that she can lay her head down. Rest easy now.

[Narrator/Commentator]

I still miss Susan, and I feel.

So bad that she's gone. I think she would be validated by.

[Family Member/Commentator]

The people who came to stand up.

[Narrator/Commentator]

For her and who have been standing for her.

[Family Member/Commentator]

Kathy's brother, Jim McCormack, has been hoping for justice for his sister. He felt, you know, a conviction in Susan's case is like a conviction for my sister, too. They went to the Westchester county prosecutor. We want an indictment on Kathy's murder. And they got it.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

A second degree murder indictment tonight against real estate heir Robert Durst.

[Narrator/Commentator]

One of Durst's LA trial lawyers, Chip Lewis, called this charge fake news.

[Officer Rashad Sharif (LAPD)]

Things he said on the stand at the Los Angeles trial. We came to the conclusion that we did have enough to charge him with murder and take it to trial.

[Narrator/Commentator]

But by the time this started to play out in the courts of New York, it was too late.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

Breaking news. Real estate heir and convicted murderer Robert Durst has died. The 78 year old went into cardiac arrest and could not be revived.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Robert died after he was found guilty by a jury but before the appellate process could work its way through.

So in California, when a defendant dies and the case is still on appeal, the conviction is abated, it's vacated, it's gone.

So the question is, was final justice ever really done? Probably not for Kathie Durst's family.

[Andrew Jarecki (Filmmaker)]

Not knowing what happened to Kathy over all these years, not knowing where her body is, not being able to give her a burial, not having any closure.

[Narrator/Commentator]

The most tragic part is that the family will never have those answers.

It's been 40 years. I miss Kathy. We would have had a good time growing old together.

You've been listening to the 2020 True.

Crime Vault Friday nights at 9 on ABC. You can also find all new broadcast episodes of 2020.

[John Lewin (Prosecutor)]

Thanks for listening.

[Narrator]

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[Andrew Jarecki (Filmmaker)]

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