True Crime Vault: This is Revenge

Summary

Podcast Summary

Podcast: 20/20
Episode: True Crime Vault: This is Revenge
Date: February 17, 2026
Host: ABC News

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Episode Overview

This gripping episode of 20/20's "True Crime Vault" dives deep into the shocking murder of Dr. Joseph Sonnier, a well-respected pathologist from Lubbock, Texas. The story unfolds through the eyes and voices of family members, law enforcement, and key figures, weaving together themes of love, jealousy, and ultimately, deadly revenge. With painstaking investigative detail and dramatic courtroom twists, the episode chronicles the path from an unfathomable crime to hard-won justice, revealing the darkness that can exist beneath seemingly ordinary lives.

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Key Discussion Points

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1. The Crime Scene and Initial Theories

[00:21–03:37]

• The episode opens with the discovery of Dr. Joseph Sonnier’s brutal murder: shot and stabbed 11 times in his garage.
• Detective Zach Johnson initially suspects a robbery due to the exclusive neighborhood, but quickly dismisses this:

  “This is not a robbery at all.” (03:27, Detective Zach Johnson)

• High-value items (artwork, furniture, electronics) remain untouched, and an improvised silencer (Gatorade bottle) is found at the scene, indicating a targeted killing.

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2. The Victim’s Background and Family Tragedy

[03:56–06:37]

• Dr. Sonnier was a prominent, affluent physician whose wife had also been murdered just two years prior, compounding the family’s grief:

  “I knew how to plan a funeral. I knew how to scrub blood off the floor. I knew everything we had to do because I’d already done it once before.” (04:08, Family Member)

• After decades of marriage, left single, Dr. Sonnier started dating again, leading to a relationship with Rochelle Shatina.

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3. The Love Triangle: Sonnier, Rochelle Shatina, and Dr. Mike Dixon

[07:03–15:28]

• Sonnier meets Rochelle at a dance class; the relationship blossoms, leading to travel and family gatherings.
• Rochelle denies ever pressuring Sonnier to marry her, aligning with the family’s perspective that they liked her:

  “She knew how to handle herself in a social situation around his sons. We’re tough critics, you know, and we gave her a thumbs up.” (07:41, Family Member)

• Dr. Mike Dixon, Rochelle’s ex-boyfriend and a wealthy Amarillo plastic surgeon, emerges as a significant figure when investigators probe for jealous lovers.
• Rochelle describes feeling stalked and followed, referencing a “big, creepy looking guy” outside her gym and strange letters designed to sow distrust.

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4. The Investigation Broadens

[15:28–21:07]

• Investigators question Dr. Dixon, who downplays his current relationship with Rochelle but admits lingering obsession:

  “I love, love, love that woman. I really did.” (17:19, Mike Dixon quoted by Family Member)

• Alibis are established for all principal parties, leading detectives to a dead end—until a tip breaks the case wide open.

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5. The Tipster and Dave Shepard’s Confession

[20:48–26:43]

• Paul Reynolds, a nurse, reports to police that his friend Dave Shepard boasted about committing a homicide in Lubbock.
• Shepard is interrogated and eventually confesses to killing Sonier—detailing months of stalking, failed “pranks,” and finally the murder itself:

  “He wanted to be hurt. And it gradually developed into having him killed.” (25:07, Dave Shepard)

• Shepard attests that Dr. Dixon orchestrated the crime, paying him with Cuban cigars and silver bars:

  “Paid him with a box of Cuban cigars and... three silver bars.” (30:20, Lead Narrator)

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6. Courtroom Dramas: Confession and Betrayal

[27:24–37:34]

• The trial draws widespread attention as both Shepard and Dixon face murder charges.
• Shepard’s star-witness confession unravels in a dramatic twist. On the stand, he abruptly recants, claiming he acted alone and exonerating Dixon:

  “He completely digressed from what his statement was to law enforcement in the fact that Mike Dixon didn’t have any involvement in this deal.” (35:37, District Attorney Matt Powell)

• The courtroom is stunned. The resulting mistrial devastates Sonier’s family:

  “It was devastating. I mean, I had a moment of just... silence. I couldn’t breathe. I couldn’t think.” (38:20, Family Member)

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7. The Retrials: Family, Frustration, and a Daughter's Key Testimony

[38:41–42:18]

• With a retrial, prosecution avoids using Shepard as a witness. Instead, Shepard’s daughter testifies about her father’s suspicious influx of money:

  “Dad had money... He bought Hayley a phone, he bought a new grill, he bought tires, and he never had that much money ever. We all asked him, how do you have money? And his words were, ‘I did some work for Mike, and he paid me early.’” (39:53, Rochelle Shatina as Shepard’s daughter)

• Dixon testifies in his own defense, but jurors are not persuaded:

  “He had an ego that was larger than life... I knew at that point I could not believe what he was testifying to.” (40:55, Investigator)

• The second jury reaches a swift verdict:

  “The verdict is in. Unanimous verdict. Guilty on two charges.” (41:28, Lead Narrator)

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8. Final Twist: Appeals, Overturned Verdict, and Ultimate Justice

[42:18–43:48]

• Dixon’s conviction is initially reversed on procedural grounds, leading to his release on bond and the threat of a third trial.
• The Texas Court of Criminal Appeals ultimately reinstates the guilty verdict:

  “It is a bombshell. Dixon’s guilty verdict is reinstated. And once again... he is guilty of murder for hire.” (43:33, Lead Narrator)

• Both Dixon and Shepard receive life sentences without parole.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "When somebody you love is murdered, it is the very, very worst thing. And the only thing worse than that is when the person who did it... gets away with it."
  — Detective Zach Johnson & Family Member (00:32–00:40)

• “This whole thing is nothing but darkness and evil.”
  — Rochelle Shatina (01:36, 43:48)

• “He was a single man in his late 40s with disposable income and an empty house.”
  — Family Member (06:09)

• “He wanted to be hurt. And it gradually developed into having [him] killed.”
  — Dave Shepard (25:07)

• “You can’t make this stuff up. And that’s one of the fascinating things about this.”
  — Detective Zach Johnson (01:33)

• "The verdict is in. Unanimous verdict. Guilty on two charges... We’ve been waiting for that moment for over three years."
  — Lead Narrator and Family Member (41:28, 41:33)

• "There are real sociopaths and psychopaths that walk amongst us. They are charming... When you see that, don’t ignore it. Get out. Run as fast as you can."
  — Rochelle Shatina (43:48)

• “It was devastating. I mean, I had a moment of just. Just. Silence.”
  — Family Member (38:20)

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Timeline & Timestamps of Important Segments

• Scene of the Crime and Initial Theories: 00:21–03:37
• Victim’s Family Tragedy: 03:56–06:37
• Sonnier, Rochelle, and Dixon’s Love Triangle: 07:03–15:28
• Investigator's Dead End and Tip from Paul Reynolds: 20:48–21:07
• Dave Shepard’s Confession: 23:02–26:43
• Trial and Shepard Recanting: 35:00–37:34
• First Mistrial and Devastation: 38:12–38:30
• Second Trial—Daughter’s Testimony: 39:53–40:30
• Dixon’s Guilty Verdict: 41:15–41:33
• Conviction Overturned, Final Appeal and Verdict: 42:18–43:48
• Rochelle’s Closing Reflection: 43:48–44:26

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Final Reflection

The episode masterfully illustrates the unraveling of intense human emotions—love, betrayal, and vengeance—set against the machinery of justice. The courtroom drama, the twists in testimony, and the relentless determination of the victim’s family all highlight how, behind every headline, there are deeply personal stories and real, enduring pain.

Dr. Joseph Sonnier’s murder, ultimately solved by dogged investigation, a critical tip, and the testimony of an unlikely witness, stands as a tragic testament to the power and peril of obsession, and the lengths to which revenge can drive an individual.

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“This whole thing is nothing but darkness and evil... there are real sociopaths and psychopaths that walk amongst us... When you see that, don’t ignore it. Get out. Run as fast as you can.”
— Rochelle Shatina (43:48)

Transcript

[Narrator/Advertiser]

This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. You ever find yourself playing the budgeting game? Well, with the name your price tool from Progressive, you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Try [e-mail], progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Price and coverage match, limited by state law. Not available in all states.

[Lead Narrator]

Step into the 2020 True Crime Vault.

[Family Member (likely Dallas Sonye)]

Where each story is unforgettable.

[Detective Zach Johnson]

When somebody you love is murdered, it is the very, very worst thing. And the only thing worse than that is when the person who did it.

[Family Member (likely Dallas Sonye)]

Gets away with it.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

This is a huge whodunit.

[Lead Narrator]

Who came into Dr. Josephson's house, shot him and knifed him.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

How would you describe your relationship with Dr. Sonya?

[Rochelle Shatina]

He's the love of my life.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

We were dealing with something that was a hit.

[Family Member (likely Dallas Sonye)]

We started racking our brains. Well, it's gotta be some type of girlfriend situation.

[Lead Narrator]

A stalker.

[Rochelle Shatina]

There was this big, creepy looking guy sitting there and he was staring at the door like he was looking for someone or watching someone.

[Lead Narrator]

A confession, a payoff, and a courthouse twist that nobody saw coming.

[Courtroom Observer/Commentator]

Everybody is stunned.

[Family Member (likely Dallas Sonye)]

Stunned was devastating. I mean, I had a moment of just.

[Lead Narrator]

Just silence.

[Family Member (likely Dallas Sonye)]

I couldn't breathe. I couldn't think.

[Detective Zach Johnson]

You can't make this stuff up. And that's one of the fascinating things about this.

[Rochelle Shatina]

This whole thing is nothing but darkness and evil.

[District Attorney Matt Powell]

This is the oldest story in the book. This is vengeance. This is pride. This is revolution. Today in Lubbock, cooler temps that will.

[Family Member (likely Dallas Sonye)]

Dip into the upper 70s and lower 80s.

[Lead Narrator]

A beautiful summer day in Lubbock, Texas.

[David Sheppard]

911 Lucky emergency.

[Lead Narrator]

The landscapers start their usual routine at a doctor's house. But they're starting to think something's off.

[Family Member (likely Dallas Sonye)]

Somebody who's broken a window in the back. And the doctor did not show up for work today.

[Lead Narrator]

Oh, no.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

What's going on?

[Lead Narrator]

Dr. Joseph Sonier's body is in the garage. His murder is truly brutal. Shot and stabbed 11 times.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

There was a bullet that was laying on the ground.

[Family Member (likely Dallas Sonye)]

I need somebody to hurry.

[David Sheppard]

Yes, ma'.

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

Am.

[Lead Narrator]

This neighborhood had to be freaked out by this killer.

[Courtroom Observer/Commentator]

They were.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

They were very scared because this doesn't happen, especially to somebody that's so esteemed.

[Lead Narrator]

Detective Zack Johnson's first thought in a wealthy neighborhood is, naturally, it's a robbery gone bad.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

But there was artwork in the home. There were very expensive pieces of furniture. There was iPads, all kinds of things just kind of laying around. You know, nothing was taken. It was an in and out job.

[Lead Narrator]

Pretty clearly it happened in the dining room. The window, the bullet casings.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

And that crime scene was very succinct. It wasn't spread out. You had the overturned chair, you had the glass on the floor and you had the casings. So you knew that he was shot right here.

[Detective Zach Johnson]

And something else, a Gatorade bottle near the expended show casings. It's an amateur silencer. So this is not a robbery at all.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

We were dealing with something that was a hit of sorts. That somebody had come to this house and to kill this person specifically. To me it was just mind boggling. Why is this man dead? He's a well respected citizen in this community. Why Is he dead?

[Lead Narrator]

Dr. Sonye, a wealthy pathologist with grown sons. And of course they're absolutely devastated. And it's even worse because two years before their mother had been murdered and now their dad is killed.

[Family Member (likely Dallas Sonye)]

I knew how to plan a funeral. I knew how to scrub blood off the floor. I knew everything we had to do because I'd already done it once before. I got the call the day before the two year anniversary of my mother's death. I thought maybe it had something to do with her death. That's how out of left field and complete, completely out of nowhere this was. We started racking our brains. Well, it's gotta be some type of girlfriend situation. If it's not a robbery, it's somebody he knows. The statistical likelihood that both parents would be murdered separate occasions is unfathomable.

[Lead Narrator]

Lubbock is in the middle of ranching country. Big sweeping plains, cotton fields, wide open skies. There's money at least in Dr. Saulnier's neighborhood. He's a well known doctor, a multimillionaire, a businessman, loves to travel and has an expansive wine collection.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

He never did the whole dating scene. In college he was married.

[Lead Narrator]

At 19 he married his high school sweetheart.

[Rochelle Shatina]

We all love Becky.

[Family Member (likely Dallas Sonye)]

Merry Christmas.

[Lead Narrator]

But she falls in love with another man and leaves Sonja.

[Family Member (likely Dallas Sonye)]

After 27 years, she was the only person that he had ever been with and ever dated and ever fallen in love with. When they got divorced, it was a shock to him. Everything he'd worked for in his life was evaporated in one second.

[Lead Narrator]

Becky quickly marries the man, but to their horror, she's murdered by her new husband, who then kills himself. Dr. Saunier is left with his sons. Sonia is 48 years old, dating for the first time since high school.

[Family Member (likely Dallas Sonye)]

He was a single man in his late 40s with disposable income and an empty house. In the beginning he didn't think anybody.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Would want to date him. Middle aged man, he was bald. Kept trying to tell him women don't care about that.

[Family Member (likely Dallas Sonye)]

He was still really nervous. He had been with my mom since he was 16 years old.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

I don't think he would have gotten married again.

[Family Member (likely Dallas Sonye)]

He went, I think, on a lark to a dance class. Ballroom and salsa and swing. He started to meet beautiful single women, attractive women who were also, you know, in his age range. And he got the mojo back like that.

[Lead Narrator]

So how did you feel about the women that he dated?

[Family Member (likely Dallas Sonye)]

The truth is we liked most of them.

[Detective Zach Johnson]

Michelle Shatina is a divorced single mother. Four grown boys of her own. They meet at one of those ballroom dance classes.

[Lead Narrator]

Dallas and his brothers don't live in Lubbock anymore, but every fall they come back for a family tradition. One of those giant tailgate feasts at a Texas Tech football game. One year the doctor brings a date.

[Family Member (likely Dallas Sonye)]

She's blonde, she's tall, she's gorgeous.

[Lead Narrator]

It's the first date and he's bringing you around as family, which is. That's nerve wracking for some people.

[Rochelle Shatina]

I mean, it was the first date. It really wasn't a big deal to me. I certainly wasn't nervous about it.

[Family Member (likely Dallas Sonye)]

She knew how to handle herself in a social situation around his sons. We're tough critics, you know, and we gave her a thumbs up.

[Courtroom Observer/Commentator]

Rochelle and Dr. Sonnier traveled to California to visit Dr. Sonnier's grandchildren. And that seemed to make her very happy.

[Rochelle Shatina]

Where's your head?

[Family Member (likely Dallas Sonye)]

Had a great time. She came over to the house. We played with my kids. It couldn't have gone better.

[Courtroom Observer/Commentator]

It seemed like a good match. They got along really well. He seemed to be having fun. Dr. Saulnier, he may have been a little cautious about, you know, jumping to marriage right away.

[Lead Narrator]

His family thinks Rachel wants a proposal.

[Rochelle Shatina]

I'm not saying that it would have been out of the question at all. I adored him. I loved him.

[Lead Narrator]

So, just so I have this. Clearly. You never asked Joseph. You never pressured Joseph to marry you?

[Rochelle Shatina]

No, we not one time did we have a discussion about marriage.

[Courtroom Observer/Commentator]

Dr. Saulnier, for Rochelle's 50th birthday, decided to take her on a really big adventure to Paris, the City of Lights, where, you know, love is everywhere.

[Rochelle Shatina]

I was just over the moon. It was really a dream come true.

[Detective Zach Johnson]

They went to the Pont des Arts. That's the bridge famous for love locks.

[Rochelle Shatina]

We bought a lock and Joseph wrote his name on it, and I wrote my name on it. And you throw the key into the Seine river and that locks in the moment forever.

[Detective Zach Johnson]

For Rochelle and Joseph forever is only a matter of weeks. She gets a call that the man she says is the love of her life is dead in his garage.

[Rochelle Shatina]

There are police cars everywhere. There's crime scene tape all around Joseph's house. Emergency vehicles there, reporters there. It was just absolute chaos.

[Detective Zach Johnson]

Of course, when there's a murder, especially when there's no robbery, the first people police check out are lovers, family, friends. So Detective Zach Johnson is going to bring in Rochelle.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Meeting with Rochelle that very first time. I don't know a lot about her.

[Lead Narrator]

Did you ever have a time where you suspected that Rochelle could in some way have been involved in Dr. Sonier's death?

[Investigator/Interviewer]

90% of the time, it's going to be the people that are closest to our victims that commit the crime against him. This is Rochelle.

[Detective Zach Johnson]

The police are looking for a motive. Maybe Rochelle is angry that Sonia hadn't proposed. They asked where she was at the time of the crime. If she can imagine anyone who might have meant the doctor harm.

[Rochelle Shatina]

There's just, you know, some girls that he dated, and Joseph would get this. These horrible text messages, you know, calling, you know, you're such a. And whatever.

[Lead Narrator]

Then she met mentions a name. Someone who seems pretty unlikely as a murder suspect. Another doctor, but one that lives in another town, who never even met Sanier, one of Rochelle's ex boyfriends.

[Detective Zach Johnson]

And she thinks she has a stalker.

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[Lead Narrator]

Doctor Sonier is dead.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Ma', am, if you will please state your name.

[Rochelle Shatina]

Rochelle Shatina.

[Lead Narrator]

In that interrogation room, detectives want any scrap of information they can get from his girlfriend. Rochelle Shatina, how would you describe your.

[Family Member (likely Dallas Sonye)]

Relationship with Dr. Sonya?

[Lead Narrator]

He's the love of my life, Rochelle.

[Detective Zach Johnson]

Tells Detective Johnson she thinks she she has a stalker. She feels like someone has been watching her, even following her to the gym.

[Rochelle Shatina]

I'd gone in to work out and I pulled into the parking lot and there was this big, creepy looking guy sitting there and he was staring at the door like he was looking for someone or watching someone.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

A couple of weeks later, her and Dr. Saulnier are in Dr. Sonnier's house and they're drinking wine in the kitchen and they see a flash.

[Rochelle Shatina]

It was dark outside and Joseph and I both saw a flash from the outside. We laughed and kind of joked about, you know, maybe somebody was following us.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Shortly after that, Dr. Saulnier has locks put on the gate. He has his locks changed at his house.

[Detective Zach Johnson]

And another thing. Rachelle talks about a letter that seemed to be from a girlfriend of Sonia's. She thought it was fake.

[Rochelle Shatina]

It's from this girl who said her name was Tina and that she met Joseph on the Internet and that they had sex for money, basically. And he said, you know, this is obviously someone trying to drive a wedge in between us.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Well, what kind of a motive do I have with her? Do we have maybe a jealousy motive? Do we have another kind of anger motive?

[Detective Zach Johnson]

So maybe there's a rival looking for revenge. But in addition to asking about Sonia's past girlfriends, Detective Johnson asks Rochelle about her past lovers. And there is one name she brings up right away. Her boyfriend. Right before she met Dr. Sonier at the dance class.

[Rochelle Shatina]

Dr. Thomas Michael Dixon. He's a plastic surgeon in amarillo.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Hello, I'm Dr. Mike Dixon.

[Lead Narrator]

He's well known, married, successful, a wealthy doctor. And they meet when Rochelle's a patient.

[Rochelle Shatina]

He had a med spa in Amarillo and I went there to get Botox injections.

[Lead Narrator]

What attracted you to him?

[Rochelle Shatina]

He was funny, he was very witty and he was enjoyable. It was, you know, if it can be enjoyable to have somebody put needles in your face, you know, I guess that's about as enjoyable as it could be.

[Lead Narrator]

Rachelle and Dr. Dixon are together for about a year and a half. Dixon's wife ends up divorcing him because of it. Then Michelle starts seeing Joseph Sonnier.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Did he know about your current relationship?

[Rochelle Shatina]

He knew that I was dating Joseph. He called him by name in a series of text messages trying to get me to go out with him and to meet him for coffee.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

So he wanted you to see him on the side?

[Rochelle Shatina]

Basically he wanted me to come back to him.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

I told him no, I'm still trying to figure out what going on. And I knew. Well, we're going to get a little bit more insight into this thing. We talked to Dr. Dixon.

[Lead Narrator]

It's a two hour drive to Amarillo and he just goes straight over to Dixon's house. A straightforward face to face conversation, which Johnson records.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Hi. I hate to come bugging you at your house in all hours of the.

[Family Member (likely Dallas Sonye)]

What's going on?

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Well, we've had a homicide in Lubbock, Texas today. I told him it was Rachelle's boyfriend and his first thing was, oh, I don't know anything about him.

[Family Member (likely Dallas Sonye)]

I don't know anything about him. I haven't talked to her in months and Months.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

And I was like, okay, well, that's a little odd, because in our interview with Rochelle, she told us that he knew about the relationship.

[Family Member (likely Dallas Sonye)]

You know, I'll be honest with you. I love, love, love that woman. I really did.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

He was obsessed with Rachelle. He. He's having a lot of problems getting over this breakup. He just couldn't seem to let her go.

[Family Member (likely Dallas Sonye)]

I really had fallen head over heels. In fact, made a lot of life changes for her.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

He's very upfront about, yeah, I wanted her back.

[Lead Narrator]

Dixon says their relationship ended a while back, probably because he didn't give her a diamond ring and propose on her birthday. Instead, he'd given her a subscription to a Tea of the Month club.

[Family Member (likely Dallas Sonye)]

And she went ballistic and said, well, I didn't. I mean, I remember clearly it's not a big rock. And I said, no, it's not like a wedding ring.

[Lead Narrator]

When Dixon talked to police, he talked about how he gave you this Tea of the Month Club birthday gift, and it really, really angered you.

[Rochelle Shatina]

It wasn't about the fact that it was tea. Tea is lovely. I don't happen to drink. Wasn't the gift that upset me. He could have shown up at my doorstep and given me a hug and said, happy birthday. I am so glad to be here with you today. And I would have been the happiest girl in the world.

[Lead Narrator]

But Dixon says they kept going to dinner and texting and even claims they were planning a weekend getaway.

[Family Member (likely Dallas Sonye)]

She was like, hey, you want to put this back together? I was like, yeah, I did. And so let's plan a trip. Blah, blah, blah. The next day, she's like, hey, sorry, I'm in love with my dance party.

[David Sheppard]

Okay.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Like, every now.

[Family Member (likely Dallas Sonye)]

And I was like, really?

[Lead Narrator]

Some would say, well, you're throwing it in his face a little.

[Rochelle Shatina]

Well, no, I wasn't throwing it in his face. There was, you know, an ugliness from him to me.

[Courtroom Observer/Commentator]

After Rachelle ended the relationship with Dr. Dixon, he started dating a medical student who was a couple of decades his junior.

[Lead Narrator]

Ashley Wohlbert is alibi for the night of the murder. They were out eating sushi in Amarillo.

[Detective Zach Johnson]

Dr. Dixon's sushi alibi checks out. And Rachelle's alibi and Sonja's ex girlfriends. So Detective Johnson is kind of starting from scratch again.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

There's something not right here, but that's all that I have. We're still looking for a motive. This is a huge whodunit.

[Lead Narrator]

But then a phone call changes all of that. It's from a total Stranger who doesn't know Sanye doesn't know Rochelle doesn't know Dixon but says he may know one thing. Who did it.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. You ever find yourself playing the budgeting game? Well, with the name your price tool from Progressive, you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Try [e-mail] Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Price and coverage match limited by state law. Not available in all states. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home in auto policies. Try [e-mail] Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states.

[Detective Zach Johnson]

So at this point, this investigation is essentially at a dead end. There's no eyewitnesses. Everybody's alibis check out. And at this point, he has no suspects. Sometimes in a murder investigation, all you need is one tip.

[Lead Narrator]

What was it that broke this case.

[Family Member (likely Dallas Sonye)]

Wide open for you?

[Investigator/Interviewer]

When Paul Reynolds called the police department.

[Family Member (likely Dallas Sonye)]

My name is Paul Reynolds. I'm trying to give some information to some folks and we about talk. I think we got a crime that happened down there in love, and it's a homicide.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Believe it or not, there are good people in the world, and Paul Reynolds is one of them.

[Lead Narrator]

He's a registered nurse, a little down on his luck, and his childhood friend Dave Sheppard is helping him out. So I crashed on his couch. He kind of started in with just weird talk. He says Sheppard is spinning some wild stories about killing a man in Lubbock. Now, Reynolds is pretty sure he's making it up, but then he googles murders in Lubbock, and the murder is real.

[Family Member (likely Dallas Sonye)]

He said he went down there and he said he shot the guy. And what is your roommate's name? His name's Dave Shepard. S H E P A R D.

[Detective Zach Johnson]

Shepherd is unemployed, he's divorced, and he has a criminal record. He's a convicted thief. So they bring him in for questioning.

[Family Member (likely Dallas Sonye)]

What do you want me to call you, Dave?

[Lead Narrator]

David?

[David Sheppard]

That'd be fine, sir.

[Lead Narrator]

And guess who shepherd is friends with. Dr. Mike Dixon, Rochelle's previous boyfriend. Shepard and Dixon met over cigars and martinis at some hangouts in Amarillo. Bonding as they talk about their exes.

[David Sheppard]

Smoking cigars is a very sociable thing. And we just connected and hooked up.

[Family Member (likely Dallas Sonye)]

So y' all just happened to meet.

[David Sheppard]

Up in the cigar shop? That's it. And kind of had a Connection.

[Lead Narrator]

Shepherd's daughters, Haley, Abigail and Rachel. They know all about his friend Mike Dixon, because their dad just seems to idolize him.

[Rochelle Shatina]

Dad was definitely obsessed with Mike.

[Courtroom Observer/Commentator]

Really?

[Rochelle Shatina]

He had a big man crush on Mike.

[Lead Narrator]

So what did your dad see in him?

[Rochelle Shatina]

His money and his success. Dad wanted to be Mike.

[Lead Narrator]

Shepard sees that Dixon is obsessed with getting back with Rochelle Shatino.

[District Attorney Matt Powell]

I don't think there's any doubt about that based on the evidence. And I think because of that obsession, he either wanted her to suffer or he wanted her back.

[David Sheppard]

He left his wife for her. You know, she broke up his marriage, and he just wanted to, I guess, pay back.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

David Sheppard does come in and tells us exactly what happened. This whole thing was like this stair step, and it started at the very bottom of these stairs as being a prank.

[Lead Narrator]

What were some of the things they came up with?

[Investigator/Interviewer]

They were gonna get this porn subscription, like child gay porn, and they were gonna send it to Dr. Sonye's office.

[David Sheppard]

Go to an adult bookstore and buy the most obscene, nastiest Man Boy Law association book he could and buy him a subscription and send it to his office. Because I said, that's a gift that'll keep giving.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

They were thinking that was going to ruin his reputation, his professional reputation.

[David Sheppard]

He pretty much wanted to break up Dr. Sonia and Rochelle.

[Lead Narrator]

Ridiculous schemes to humiliate Sonya. Hiring a stripper to pretend she's Sonya's girlfriend so Rachelle will think he's two timing her.

[Detective Zach Johnson]

None of it works. And Dixon starts talking about a different plan, one that means somebody's got to get physically close to him.

[David Sheppard]

He said we have to follow him, figure out where he's at. He goes, hey, what are you doing? Let's go. Let's take a little trip to Lovett. He tells me that Rochelle and Dr. Saulnier take these dance classes. And he showed me where the dance class was, where to go, and he paid for everything. Paid for my gas, paid for my meals.

[Detective Zach Johnson]

Shepard spends months off and on in Lubbock, driving two hours each way from home and watching them consistently texting Dixon about what's going on.

[Lead Narrator]

It's shepherd, who is lurking outside Rachelle's gym. Shepherd, who's sneaking into Sonya's backyard and taking kind of an accidental selfie there in the reflection in that window. That explains what Rachelle and Sonja saw.

[Rochelle Shatina]

It looked like a camera flash. And we kind of shrugged our shoulders and said that was weird.

[Lead Narrator]

But again, none of this is helping dig up dirt on Sonya. So Dixon gets impatient and escalates.

[Family Member (likely Dallas Sonye)]

Was there a Specific act that he.

[Detective Zach Johnson]

Was wanting done that.

[David Sheppard]

Was that what y' all were discussing? Yes.

[Detective Zach Johnson]

And what was that?

[David Sheppard]

He wanted to be hurt. And it gradually developed into having killed.

[Detective Zach Johnson]

After hours of interrogation, Shepard confesses and he admits he was the shooter. He gives police a blow by blow account of the murder, and it is completely chilling.

[Lead Narrator]

Shepard's final trip to Lubbock. He sneaks into the doctor's backyard again. But this time he's armed. He's got a gun and a knife. And he hides and he waits. Sonia comes home, makes himself a drink. And suddenly shepherd is at the back window.

[David Sheppard]

Pull the gun out of the bag with the Gatorade on it. I point the weapon with the bottle at him. Discharged several times. After three or four discharges, he's backing away. Trips on his feet.

[Lead Narrator]

But the doctor doesn't fall. He stumbles out of the room. Shepard runs after him. They're in the garage. And that's when he stabs him 11 times.

[David Sheppard]

He's laying on the floor, not moving, not breathing. Nothing. I check his pulse in his neck. He's dead.

[Detective Zach Johnson]

There's so much blood, it seeps under the garage door to the outside. So, done deal. Detectives have their man.

[District Attorney Matt Powell]

He's a murderer, he's a liar, he's a thief, he's an embezzler. He's lots of things. As far as his role in this, I think he was a pawn for Mike Dixon.

[Detective Zach Johnson]

They even have his DNA on the Gatorade bottle. Which means he actually drank the Gatorade before he used the bottle as a silencer.

[Lead Narrator]

He's confessed. He's going down. District Attorney Matt Powell offers Shepard a deal. If he'll rat out his good friend Dixon, then he'll only get a life sentence instead of a death sentence. And he's got to know Texas carries out those death sentences.

[Detective Zach Johnson]

But here's the problem. A confession is great, but what? What other actual proof, what actual evidence do they have? Because every prosecutor knows when you are in a courtroom, anything can happen.

[Lead Narrator]

In downtown Lubbock, Texas, one of the biggest murder trials this town has been ever, ever seen kicks off. Nobody knows. They're about to start a legal saga that will last almost a decade.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

One doctor is dead and two people are under arrest.

[Courtroom Observer/Commentator]

Dr. Son was found shot and stabbed to death in his living room.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

His prominent plastic surgeon, Dr. Michael Dixon.

[Lead Narrator]

Accused of hiring a hitman friend and.

[Courtroom Observer/Commentator]

Business partner, David Shepherd.

[Lead Narrator]

Dave shepherd has pled guilty to murder Dixon and says Mike Dixon hired him to kill Dr. Joseph Sonier. Dallas Sonye is hell bent on bringing his father's killers to justice.

[Family Member (likely Dallas Sonye)]

It makes me so angry. A low life scum and a piece of doctor. Let's go get these guys.

[Lead Narrator]

There's another son in the courtroom, the son of an accused murderer. And he says, my dad hire a murderer? No way.

[Family Member (likely Dallas Sonye)]

He did add things, you know, kind.

[Lead Narrator]

Of American dream kind of stuff.

[Family Member (likely Dallas Sonye)]

Go camp and hike and play baseball and football and all those things.

[District Attorney Matt Powell]

Golf.

[Family Member (likely Dallas Sonye)]

He loved golf. He was a good dad.

[Detective Zach Johnson]

He still is a good dad.

[Family Member (likely Dallas Sonye)]

They're trying to prove him guilty and he's fighting for his life.

[Lead Narrator]

I mean, it's just terrifying and so sickening.

[Courtroom Observer/Commentator]

The gallery was packed. Everybody was there to see how this trial was gonna go.

[Lead Narrator]

And there to put Andrew Dixon's father away is Texas District Attorney Matt Powell.

[District Attorney Matt Powell]

I think Mike Dixon had an obsession with Rochelle Shatina. I don't think there's any doubt about that based on the evidence. Ultimately, that cost Dr. Sonnier's life. I think David Sheppard was the perfect patsy for this situation. I think he loved the lifestyle that Dr. Dixon could give him. I think he likes the expensive cigars and expensive scotch and everything else that came with being a buddy of Mike Dixon.

[Lead Narrator]

Many people make the argument that Mike Dixon never laid a hand on Dr. Sonnier.

[District Attorney Matt Powell]

He's just controlling the knife. Dave Sheppard's just another instrument for Mike Dixon. He either wanted her to suffer or he wanted her back. And only he knows what the true answer to that question is. But Dr. Saulnier was in the way. This is the oldest story in the book. This is vengeance. This is revenge. This is pride.

[Detective Zach Johnson]

So what does the prosecution have? They have the gun shepherd used. They found it in a lake right behind Dixon's office. And it was actually registered to Dixon's brother. And they also have the text messages between Dixon and Shepard which say the following, quote, you have to stay close, watch them in the AM Go get them and put it on them.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

When he was arrested, the SWAT guys told me he had actually jumped into his swimming pool and tried to ruin the phone. The problem was the man had plugged the phone in and backed it up to his computer. So all of the stuff that he thought was not going to get him in trouble was backed up to his computer.

[Lead Narrator]

And of course, the centerpiece, they have Shepard's very clear confession where he says Dixon paid him to do it. Paid him with a box of Cuban cigars and. And three silver bars. Comes to about $9,000 and they find the bars at this pawn shop in Amarillo. One bar sold here before the murder Two, the day after it happens. Both sold by Dave Sheppard. In terms of demeanor, he didn't strike you one way or the other?

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

It sounds like.

[Lead Narrator]

Not at all. A couple days later, he's on the front page of the paper.

[District Attorney Matt Powell]

I just.

[Family Member (likely Dallas Sonye)]

I was blown away.

[Detective Zach Johnson]

Dixon's lawyers say that's all very well, and it's also all very circumstantial. They have an explanation for the. The gun Sheppard uses. Shepherd stole it when he was at Dixon's house.

[Family Member (likely Dallas Sonye)]

They came in here, they're picking out.

[Lead Narrator]

Cigar to smoke, and shepherd opens this.

[Family Member (likely Dallas Sonye)]

Drawer here, and it's a gun.

[Lead Narrator]

So that's how Shepard knew a gun was in that drawer.

[David Sheppard]

Exactly.

[Courtroom Observer/Commentator]

The defense said that the surveilling that David Sheppard was doing was really only to get pictures of Dr. Saulnier out with other women so that he could show them to and say, this guy is cheating on you.

[Family Member (likely Dallas Sonye)]

Rachelle was posting on Facebook all the time how Dr. Sonnier was 10 times the man that Mike Dixon would ever be, and he wanted to show Rochelle that she was wrong.

[Lead Narrator]

So from your perspective, it wasn't about Relle Shatina. It was about Mike Dixon and his ego. Right.

[Detective Zach Johnson]

If he was obsessed with her, he'd.

[Family Member (likely Dallas Sonye)]

Have been following her.

[Lead Narrator]

Were you in any way trying to flaunt your relationship?

[Rochelle Shatina]

He was blocked from my Facebook page. So was I flaunting anything? No.

[Lead Narrator]

And the silver bars? The defense says Dixon wasn't paying for a hit. It was for an investment. They had together an allergy testing business.

[Detective Zach Johnson]

So essentially, the defense boils down to this. Dixon did not ask or pay Shepard to do this. Shepherd went rogue and did this on his own.

[Lead Narrator]

Do you at least admit that he planted the seed by even discussing this relationship? Planted the seed for a murder? No, absolutely not.

[Family Member (likely Dallas Sonye)]

Mike is morally responsible for David Sheppard being down here, but not for the purpose of killing Dr. Sonnier. Mike Dixon never wanted that to happen.

[David Sheppard]

He wanted to be hurt. And then it gradually developed into having guilt. I asked him, you sure you want to do this, Mike? I said, have you ever? When you kill somebody, that'll affect you for the rest of your life. You'll have nightmares. It'll bother you. And he goes, doesn't bother me.

[Lead Narrator]

Sheppard's daughters, Rachel, Abigail, and Haley are in court, but not to support their dad.

[Rochelle Shatina]

We were there more in support of the Sonia family, right?

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Yes.

[Rochelle Shatina]

Our heart was broken for.

[Lead Narrator]

And do you think that Mike Dixon paid your father to kill Dr. Sonier?

[Rochelle Shatina]

Yes. Yes.

[Courtroom Observer/Commentator]

It seemed like a slam dunk for prosecutors. They had the man who admitted to killing Dr. Joseph Sonnier as a witness.

[Lead Narrator]

And now it's time for the big moment. Shepard, the man who fired the gun is going to take the stand. The Sony's are here to watch him point the finger at Dr. Mike Dixon.

[Family Member (likely Dallas Sonye)]

He had a chance to get up there, confirm his story, point to that guy as the person who paid him to kill my dad and end it all.

[Detective Zach Johnson]

But you never know what will happen in front of a jury. Yes, Dave shepherd will confess to being the trigger man, but he has one more thing to say and it will upend this entire case.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. You chose to hit play on this podcast today. Smart choice. Make another smart choice with Auto Quote Explorer to compare rates from multiple car insurance companies all at once. Try [e-mail], progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Not available in all states or situations. Prices vary based on how you buy. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. You chose to hit play on this podcast today. Smart choice. Make another smart choice with Auto Quote Explorer to compare rates from multiple car insurance companies all at once. Try [e-mail], progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Not available in all states or situations. Prices vary based on how you buy.

[Detective Zach Johnson]

Every jury trial will hinge on one particular moment. The only problem is sometimes it's a moment that the prosecution does not expect. And boy, does that happen in this case. And it happens with the star witness.

[Lead Narrator]

The man whose lengthy confession, the confession that says Mike Dixon, ordered a hit.

[David Sheppard]

Remember, they said, well, just go behind him when he's not paying attention, hit him on the board. I said, you could probably kill him. And Doc went like that. We'll talk about that later.

[Lead Narrator]

On the stand, Shepard does a complete 180. You begin to question him. What happens?

[District Attorney Matt Powell]

Well, he completely digressed from what his statement was to law enforcement in the fact that Mike Dixon didn't have any involvement in this deal.

[Lead Narrator]

Shepard says he acted alone. He completely blindsides the prosecutor and the air is just kind of sucked out.

[Family Member (likely Dallas Sonye)]

Of the room in that moment. I've never hated anyone more than I've hated him in my entire life.

[Courtroom Observer/Commentator]

David Sheppard's daughters were embarrassed, angry and incredulous that their father would not finger Dr. Dixon as the man who hired him.

[Rochelle Shatina]

It was cowardly. I mean, he has a chance to make it right and he completely ruined it.

[Lead Narrator]

Why do you think he did that?

[Rochelle Shatina]

He was trying to help out his buddy.

[Lead Narrator]

They went to the prison to confront him about it.

[Family Member (likely Dallas Sonye)]

But daddy, you didn't tell the truth.

[David Sheppard]

I Did.

[Rochelle Shatina]

You didn't say anything.

[Family Member (likely Dallas Sonye)]

You just kept saying that you wouldn't tell them.

[David Sheppard]

But I did.

[Family Member (likely Dallas Sonye)]

Why didn't you tell? No, you didn't, dad. You said, I plead the faith. I don't.

[Rochelle Shatina]

I don't.

[Family Member (likely Dallas Sonye)]

I'm not gonna answer that. No part of this is right. None of it will ever be right.

[David Sheppard]

Nothing. Nothing I could do.

[Family Member (likely Dallas Sonye)]

No matter what you do, they think.

[David Sheppard]

I'm some kind of a monster.

[Family Member (likely Dallas Sonye)]

You've made yourself a monster, dad.

[Lead Narrator]

I mean. And you were literally breaking down in tears.

[Rochelle Shatina]

It was frustrating. I felt like I was scolding a child. Like, I just want you to answer my question, and then you can go back to time out.

[Lead Narrator]

When the police interrogated you, you said that Mike Dixon was a part of this.

[David Sheppard]

Right?

[Lead Narrator]

Why did you tell them that?

[David Sheppard]

I embellished. I felt that's what I had to do. I'd already had an agreement with Mr. Matt Powell. He was the d. A. To get rid of the death penalty.

[Lead Narrator]

So in your mind, you made up the story that Mike Dixon was never done. The death penalty off the table.

[David Sheppard]

Yeah.

[Lead Narrator]

Your daughters told us that they were so upset that this was your chance to get up there and to tell the truth. And that in their mind, you lied.

[David Sheppard]

Yes.

[Lead Narrator]

How's that make you feel?

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Pretty bad.

[David Sheppard]

They know me. They should know what I'm telling you. The truth and when I'm not. And I was telling the truth on the stand.

[Lead Narrator]

Do you miss them?

[David Sheppard]

Oh, every day. I'm sorry.

[Detective Zach Johnson]

This is pretty much the worst nightmare of any prosecutor. They have built their case around this confession, and it fell apart on the stand when Shepard tested. So when they go back to deliberate, the jury deadlocks. The court declares a mistrial, and there is no verdict.

[Courtroom Observer/Commentator]

The judge says, Mr. Dixon, you are free to go. Everybody is stunned. Stunned.

[Family Member (likely Dallas Sonye)]

It was devastating. I mean, I had a moment of just. Just.

[Lead Narrator]

Silence.

[Family Member (likely Dallas Sonye)]

I couldn't breathe. I couldn't think.

[Detective Zach Johnson]

But when you have a mistrial, it's important to remember that doesn't mean the case is over. The prosecution can still bring a case with another jury. And two years later, that is exactly what they do.

[Rochelle Shatina]

Amarillo Dr. Michael Dixon is back on trial.

[Detective Zach Johnson]

So now we have a brand new trial and a brand new jury. But this time they've learned their lesson. And they're not going to call Shepard as a witness.

[Lead Narrator]

No. This time, Sheppard's own daughter will take the stamp. What did you say?

[District Attorney Matt Powell]

On the stand.

[Rochelle Shatina]

Amarillo. Dr. Michael Dixon is back on trial for capital murder.

[Family Member (likely Dallas Sonye)]

Back in a Lovett courtroom, preparing for his second ultra. Today, officials announced the start of the second trial.

[Detective Zach Johnson]

A retrial is a nightmare. As a prosecutor, you know, you were going to hear the defense lawyer pick through every single inconsistency from what somebody said in a trial from two years before. And there's an analogy that prosecutors use. It's like putting on a cold, wet bathing suit.

[Lead Narrator]

This time, they decide to have Haley Shepard, the hitman's daughter, testified, and the case is going to rest on one state her father, Dave Sheppard, was treating his three daughters to.

[Rochelle Shatina]

Dad had money. Out of the blue, he just randomly had money, and he didn't ever have money. He bought Hayley a phone, he bought a new grill, he bought tires, and he never had that much money ever. We all asked him, how do you have money? And his words were, I did some work for Mike, and he paid me early.

[Family Member (likely Dallas Sonye)]

David Sheppard says to her, I did some work for Mike. He paid me early. Don't ask what I did for him.

[Lead Narrator]

And you think that was a prepayment for killing Dr. Sonia?

[Rochelle Shatina]

In retrospect, absolutely.

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

Game over.

[Detective Zach Johnson]

In this trial. Dr. Mike Dixon wants to take the stand in his own defense. And that is always a risky move. It's not just what a criminal defendant says, but how he says it and whether or not the jurors connect with him.

[Lead Narrator]

The jurors later say that Dixon sealed his own fate.

[David Sheppard]

I thought he was his worst witness.

[Family Member (likely Dallas Sonye)]

The longer he was on the stand, the harder he was.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

He had an ego that was larger than life. And anytime, you know, he starts talking about whether something is morally wrong, right or wrong, you know, I. I knew at that point I. I could not believe what he. What he was testifying to.

[Lead Narrator]

It takes that second jury only three.

[Family Member (likely Dallas Sonye)]

Hours, and my hand was shaking like this because I knew we got a guilty verdict.

[Detective Zach Johnson]

I knew it.

[Family Member (likely Dallas Sonye)]

I knew it. I knew it.

[Lead Narrator]

The verdict is in.

[Rochelle Shatina]

Unanimous verdict.

[Lead Narrator]

Guilty on two charges of Canadian. What was your first reaction?

[Family Member (likely Dallas Sonye)]

I had to turn to my wife and I had to say. He said, guilty, right? He said guilty. We've been waiting for that moment for over three years.

[Rochelle Shatina]

I cried. I cried. I burst into tears. I was so relieved.

[Lead Narrator]

Two counts of capital murder. Dr. Mike Dixon goes to prison. Life without parole.

[Family Member (likely Dallas Sonye)]

When you look at the photos of him, smug smile. When you look at his mug shot from his arrest, smug smile. And he has had that smile for both trials. And it was so great to be able to know that we finally wiped that smile off his face.

[Lead Narrator]

But case closed. Not even close.

[Detective Zach Johnson]

You know how when there's guilty A the defendant's lawyer always comes out to the cameras and says that they're going to appeal. Sometimes that appeal actually works.

[Rochelle Shatina]

The Circuit Court of Appeals in Amarillo reversed Dixon's conviction.

[Lead Narrator]

He's now out of prison, living in the Amarillo area. The Circuit court actually throws out the conviction on procedural grounds in the trial. And he orders a third trial. And again, Dixon's out of prison on bond, wearing an ankle bracelet. While the DA Scrambles to undo that ruling among prosecutors.

[Detective Zach Johnson]

If retrying a murder case is like putting on a cold, wet bathing suit, a third retrial is like putting on a sandy, cold, wet bathing suit. So in the case of Mike Dixon, they want to go another way. So there's just one more twist. The DA Takes a direct to an even higher court. And as a prosecutor, I've never even seen this happen before. The Texas Court of Criminal Appeals settles it. And it is a bombshell. Dixon's guilty verdict is reinstated. And once again, once and for all, he is guilty of murder for hire.

[Lead Narrator]

Eight years after Dr. Joseph Sonnier died in his own garage. Justice delivered. Mike Dixon is sent back to prison. Life sentence, no parole. And what about the woman at the center of all this? Richelle Shatina.

[Rochelle Shatina]

This whole thing is nothing but darkness and evil. There are real sociopaths and psychopaths that walk amongst us. They are charming. They sit at the dinner table with you and your children. They're not capable of feeling love for you or empathy for you, for anyone. When you see that, don't ignore it. Get out. Run as fast as you can.

[Lead Narrator]

What would she say to Dr. Joseph Sonnier, the man she met in a ballroom, Killed by her ex. Killed essentially by jealousy, Killed for revenge.

[Rochelle Shatina]

I would tell him I loved him and that I always. I'll always love him. I would just tell him how sorry I am.

[Lead Narrator]

And we should point out tonight that.

[Family Member (likely Dallas Sonye)]

Both Mike Dixon and Dave Shepard, the man who pulled the trigger for him, are both in maximum security prisons in Texas. And as the court said, they have no possible chance at parole. Thanks for joining us here tonight. And from all of us here, 2020 and ABC News, I'm David Muir.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

You've been listening to the 2020 True Crime Vault Friday nights at 9 on ABC. You can also find all new broadcast episodes of 2020.

[Family Member (likely Dallas Sonye)]

Thanks for listening.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible financial geniuses, monetary magicians. These are things people say about drivers who. Who switch their car insurance to Progressive and save hundreds. Visit progressive.com to see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary, not available in all states or situations.