The Morning Meeting on 2WAY

Episode: A Bipartisan Conversation: Reps. Mike Lawler & Ro Khanna on Country Over Party & Fighting Big Pharma

Date: December 19, 2025
Host: Mark Halperin
Guests: Rep. Mike Lawler (R-NY), Rep. Ro Khanna (D-CA)

Overview

In this lively, forward-looking episode of The Morning Meeting, host Mark Halperin is joined by two Members of Congress from opposite sides of the aisle—Rep. Mike Lawler and Rep. Ro Khanna—for a substantive conversation on healthcare, bipartisan lawmaking, transparency, big pharma, and more. With the backdrop of major Washington developments, recent presidential speeches, and upcoming legislative deadlines, the episode showcases both points of contention and common ground, highlighting moments of principle-over-party politics and candid reflections on how Congress actually operates. Listeners are treated to a deep dive on healthcare reform, the release of the Epstein files, bipartisan process reforms, and audience Q&A tackling everything from gender medicine to Congressional corruption.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

I. Reaction to the President's Speech and the State of Politics

Timestamps: [06:32] – [09:05]

• Mark reviews the President's big speech: Economy, military funding, and executive orders.
• Lawler’s take: President framed his legislative successes and set the tone for the coming election year, touting lower inflation and tax cuts.

  • "When people go to file, they're going to see a massive tax cut and that is going to spur economic activity and growth." —Lawler [06:55]

  • Gave the speech an "A" grade [07:56]
• Khanna’s counterpoint: The speech was more about "I still matter" than bold leadership, drawing a parallel to Bill Clinton after losses in the '90s.

  • “I think the president's having a hard time coming to terms with the fact that he's a lame duck... Ultimately, the rents are what they are, the utility prices are what they are. People's economics are what they are. You just can't spin it.” —Khanna [08:18]

II. Health Care Drama: Bipartisanship, ACA Subsidies & Reform

Timestamps: [09:05] – [19:24]

• House passed GOP health care bill; ACA extension fight explained.
• Lawler, with a group of centrist Republicans, signed a discharge petition to force a House vote on Obamacare subsidies—drawing praise ("choosing the people over their party" per CNN) and condemnation (WSJ op-ed).
• Lawler outlines his bipartisan roadmap:
  • Expects a House vote on a clean three-year ACA subsidy extension in January with unexpectedly strong GOP support (estimated "over 20" Republican votes) [12:44].
  • Predicts the Senate will return it amended with reforms: income limits, insurance market reforms, PBM (pharmacy benefit manager) reform, expanded HSAs, nominal premium requirements.

  • “This is the vehicle to get a bipartisan compromise done and I think that's what will happen in January.” —Lawler [11:57]

  • Stresses separation of healthcare negotiations from government funding [13:13].
• Khanna’s response: Praises Lawler's independent streak, credits Jeffries for pushing the discharge petition, signals openness to compromise.

  • “I appreciate he has some independence. ... I'm not going to let the perfect be the enemy of the good. If we can get a bipartisan thing that's going to help people...I'm willing to vote for a legitimate compromise.” —Khanna [14:24], [15:17]

• Policy Tradeoffs: Both agree fundamental reforms are overdue; robust critique of insurance company profits from both sides [16:43], [17:06].

III. Congressional Process & Political Incentives

Timestamps: [17:48] – [19:51]

• Discussion of political realities: Lawler highlights fewer competitive districts driving party-line behavior.

  • "30 years ago, you had over 100 seats that were actually competitive...In 2024, 35 seats were decided by five points or less." —Lawler [18:34]

  • Argues for bipartisan governance in swing districts, requests more floor votes for all representatives.

IV. Epstein Files: Transparency & Oversight

Timestamps: [19:51] – [25:34]

• Khanna authored bill mandating release of Jeffrey Epstein files, now due imminently.
  • Acknowledges the awkward timing but says congressional intent was transparency.

  • "There are three federal judges who have ordered the grand jury and discovery of the Maxwell trials and the Jeffrey Epstein trials to come out." —Khanna [20:39]

• Expected revelations: Khanna cites survivor testimony about Epstein's influence over local authorities, the culture of silence around underage victims.
• Lawler supports full release and full prosecution for those involved.

V. Russia/Ukraine Prospects

Timestamps: [25:34] – [28:00]

• Both lawmakers express cautious pessimism about a near-term peace deal, lay out red lines (no territory handed to Russia, no caps on Ukraine's forces, NATO membership, and strong security guarantees).

  • "Vladimir Putin is the one that is responsible for this and needs to be held to account...We have to bring this to an end." —Lawler [26:28]

VI. Brown University Shooting Investigation

Timestamps: [28:00] – [31:24]

• Both guests blast apparent incompetence and mishandling by local authorities/university administration.

  • "This is just to me seems like gross incompetence...either the state authorities or federal authorities need to intervene immediately." —Lawler [29:24]

  • Khanna: “When I saw the Brown University president like, six hours after the horrific incident saying, yeah, I don't know what the classroom was. I don't know what happened...How do you do that?” [30:40]

VII. Hypothetical 2028 AOC vs. Vance Race

Timestamps: [32:31] – [33:44]

• Both hedge, but offer views on the future of MAGA vs. Democratic candidates. Khanna praises AOC's charisma; Lawler predicts Vance would win a policy debate.

VIII. Healthcare, Pharma, & Audience Q&A

Timestamps: [34:53] – [44:53]

• Caller Jamie’s question on pediatric gender medicine:
  • Khanna: Decisions must be between families and doctors, not politicians [36:08–36:28].
  • Lawler: Opposed surgery and chemical intervention for minors, but called for empathy and rejected criminalizing parents/doctors; voted against a GOP bill as unconstitutional [36:31–38:11].
• Caller Colleen (Long Island): Praises bipartisanship, asks if Trump's anti-pharma stance can translate to reform.
  • Khanna credits Trump for his executive order attacking price gouging, introduced matching legislation [39:49–40:24].
  • Lawler: Endorses going after prescription drug prices, breaking up insurance monopolies, and reforming PBM ownership [40:26–42:04].

  • “Americans are subsidizing Europeans' prescription drug coverage. That's bullshit. And so [Trump]’s right to go after that.” —Lawler [41:36]

• Challenge Flag Proposal: Allow minority party limited ability to force votes. Both reps support expanding opportunities for bipartisan bills and more floor votes.

  • “Every member should be able to bring at least one bill to the floor. ... Let the people vote.” —Lawler [44:32]

IX. Campaign Finance Reform & Big Money in Politics

Timestamps: [54:06] – [58:13]

• Walt questions: How to break the feedback loop of industry contributions corrupting healthcare policy?
  • Khanna: Bans PAC/lobbyist money, calls for super PAC restrictions, supports restrictions on bundling and committee conflicts.

  • “It's one of the things that keeps us from having sensible reforms.” —Khanna [56:43]

  • Promotes anti-corruption legislation, predicts Supreme Court would uphold limits narrowly tailored to prevent quid pro quo.

X. Medicare for All: Substance, Political Feasibility & Risks

Timestamps: [47:20] – [53:37]

• Multiple callers ask whether single-payer/Medicare for All would be feasible or effective.
  • Khanna: Articulates vision for universal Medicare coverage from birth, explains how costs would be lower than the current system, addresses concerns about choice and supplemental insurance.

    • “Most people believe who are on Medicare that the costs and the coverage are far better than if you're on UnitedHealth Care with the denials. ... Social Security and Medicare are two things that have worked and people have trust in them and we should be expanding them.” [48:33]

  • Highlights need for more providers, job transition for displaced insurance workers, and details on cost [53:37].

XI. Final Thoughts

Timestamps: [59:38] – [62:59]

• Khanna discusses his economic vision in a transformative AI-driven era, hints at presidential ambitions for 2028, and recommits to his New Economic Patriotism plan.

  • “I have ideas how we can make sure that that wealth doesn’t just stay in Silicon Valley...I am more and more convinced that the economic roadmap I’m laying out is the right roadmap for this country.” —Khanna [60:22]

• On the release of potentially damaging Epstein documents, Khanna acknowledges the trade-off between privacy and transparency but stands by the need for public disclosure [62:59].

Notable Quotes

• On Bipartisanship:

  “This is just a reality. You have to govern in a bipartisan way if you want to get anything done.” —Lawler [19:24]
  "I'm not going to let the perfect be the enemy of the good. ... I'm willing to vote for a legitimate compromise.” —Khanna [15:15]

• On Health Reform:

  “Obamacare was written by the insurance companies for the insurance companies.” —Lawler [41:14]

• On Money in Politics:

  “We need to get this big money out of politics. It's one of the things that keeps us from having sensible reforms.” —Khanna [56:43]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [06:32] – President’s speech analysis
• [09:05] – House ACA vote, bipartisanship
• [14:24] – Health reform compromise
• [19:51] – Epstein files transparency
• [25:34] – Russia/Ukraine prospects
• [28:00] – Brown University shooting
• [32:31] – AOC vs. Vance, 2028
• [34:53] – Jamie: Gender medicine
• [39:21] – Colleen: Pharma, Trump
• [42:18] – Lenny: Congressional process reform
• [48:24] – Aaron: Trusting government with healthcare
• [54:15] – Walt: Breaking pharma-political feedback loop
• [59:38] – Khanna 2028 reflections, economic roadmap

Tone & Style

The tone throughout is lively, direct, and collegial, reflecting both the seriousness and humor of veteran Washington hands. Both guests combine policy wonkiness with moments of candor and cross-party respect. The audience Q&A produces frank and sometimes emotional responses, especially on controversial issues like gender care and healthcare costs. Both representatives repeatedly stress their willingness to compromise and the value of process reforms for a healthier democracy.

Memorable Moments

• Lawler openly critiques his own party’s leadership and frames his bipartisanship as necessity, not rebellion.
• Khanna quips about ChatGPT-like predictability in Congress and argues for principled, proactive dealmaking.
• On Medicare for All, Khanna acknowledges the need for both universal coverage and supplemental options—"healthcare as a human right"—while recognizing the cost trade-offs.
• Joint, unvarnished condemnation of university and police failures at Brown University.
• Lawler and Khanna both call Congress to allow more minority input and bipartisan votes—the “challenge flag” idea gets bipartisan endorsement.
• Khanna signals he's closer to a 2028 run, describes a vision for “AI economic patriotism.”

Bottom Line

The Morning Meeting delivers a punchy, nuanced, and unusually hopeful view of what’s possible when representatives put their country before party—without sacrificing policy substance. Both guests call for structural reforms, acknowledge the hard tradeoffs in healthcare and money in politics, and offer concrete steps toward more transparency and bipartisanship, all while fielding tough listener questions with candor. An episode for listeners who want to see how real dialogue might move Congress forward, even in contentious times.