Angry Graham Platner Suspends Campaign Amid Rape Allegations as Democrats Scramble to Replace Him

Summary

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The Morning Meeting Podcast Summary

Episode: Angry Graham Platner Suspends Campaign Amid Rape Allegations as Democrats Scramble to Replace Him
Date: July 9, 2026
Host: Mark Halperin (A)
Co-hosts/Panelists: Jaime Moore (C), Larry O’Connor (B), plus additional voices

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on the political fallout from Graham Platner’s abrupt suspension of his Maine U.S. Senate campaign following rape allegations and explores the Maine Democratic Party’s struggle to select a replacement. The discussion unfolds against a backdrop of broader political news: the political implications for both parties, reactions from within Maine, the potential effect on Susan Collins' Senate seat, and the ripple effects on national races and donor strategies. Secondary topics include U.S.-Iran tensions, developments in Ukraine, Democratic 2028 presidential prospects, and influential political trips by Gov. Gavin Newsom.

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Main Discussion: The Maine Political Crisis

The Fallout of Platner’s Exit (06:08 – 11:02)

• Reason for Exit: Platner was forced out after rape allegations. Panelists debate whether he truly chose to leave or was “forced out.”
  • "He was forced out. He did not choose not to run. He had no choice." — Larry (07:21)
  • Video of his resignation characterized as “yelling at us the entire time.” (10:02)
• Democratic Party in Turmoil: Dems in Maine are described as “losing sleep” over the urgent need to field a replacement candidate—all while aiming for a fair, open, and competitive selection process.
  • “We have no choice but to find a new nominee in Maine right now.” — Jaime (07:44)
  • The likely process is an expedited caucus, possibly less “democratic” than a primary, but the only feasible option.
• Potential to Alienate Supporters: Major concern is keeping Platner’s 80,000 grassroots donors and recent voters on board without alienating moderates or traditional Dems.
  • “That’s not an easy slot to fill." — Larry (09:41)
• Polling and Money: Platner’s fundraising collapsed post-allegations and after Janet Mills’ attack ads.

The Selection Process and Its Fairness (08:25 – 13:55)

• Is the Fix In? The selection process appears fluid, with no evidence (yet) of one faction dominating. Platner himself is seen as trying to influence events.
  • “Doesn’t seem like the fix is in.” — Larry (09:28)
• Establishment vs. Outsider Debate: Maine’s Democratic Party is characterized as unusually independent-minded, so even “establishment” delegates may not be predictable.
  • "These are individuals who, when I was at the party, you know, we couldn't always count on them to be on the party line." — Jaime (13:00)
• Possible Front Runners:
  • Troy Jackson appears to be a leading contender, but the field is wide open (11:09).
  • Secretary of State and Dan Cleveland are also mentioned as possible entrants (11:33–11:45).
  • The woman Platner allegedly supports may enter, but his endorsement is likely a liability.

Will Fundraising Suffer? (13:55 – 15:49)

• On Bounce-Back Ability: There’s debate over whether a new candidate can simply “flip the switch” and raise millions online as in other post-Trump Senate cycles.
  • “I don’t think this race is going to be the race we’re watching the closest… Susan Collins is going to be in a better place.” — Jaime (14:53)
• Diminished Maine Race Priority: As national attention shifts to more competitive states, Maine’s Dems are seen as underdogs, and the GOP incumbent is favored.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• “He had no choice. After all his allegations have… come and snowballing against him.” — Jaime (10:22)
• Larry: "We should expect the Tucker Carlson-Graham Platner interview sometime in the next..." (17:57)
• On Platner’s future: “He's going to want to be out there. He's not going to want to give up the limelight..." — Mark (16:40)

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National & International Rundown

U.S.–Iran Tensions Escalate (18:48 – 26:17)

• Policy Shift: President Trump declines further talks, opts for military pressure. U.S. airstrikes target Iranian assets after Iran attacks U.S. allies in the region.
• Political Risk & Strategy:
  • "We’re ramping back up to... strategic military strikes seem to be in action." — Larry (22:04)
• Election Impact: Rising oil prices and unresolved conflict could hurt GOP midterm prospects, with Republicans hoping for a more definitive resolution before elections.
  • "He's put himself in an almost impossible situation right now..." — Jaime (23:11)

Ukraine War Developments (26:32 – 28:53)

• Patriot Missiles Deal: Trump supports licensing advanced weapons (e.g., Patriot missiles) so Ukraine can manufacture domestically—a significant policy shift.
  • "Could be a game changer in this fight." — Larry (27:13)
• Ukraine’s Unexpected Resilience: Both panelists praise Ukraine’s effective use of drones and recovering territory.

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2028 Presidential Preliminaries

Gavin Newsom’s National Gambit (28:53 – 33:42)

• Campaign Surrogate Strategy: Newsom’s out-of-state tours aim to build contacts and PAC support—but noted he travels “smaller than you would think."
• Fundraising Competition: Newsom and J.B. Pritzker viewed as formidable rivals for raising money and attention.
• Newsom Vulnerability: FBI investigation involving an aide, Alexis Podesta, who wore a wire, is called “formidable and dangerous” for his political future.

Rahm Emanuel’s Speech & Jewish Dems’ Dilemma (33:42 – 39:13)

• Impactful Speech: Rahm’s trip to Israel and tough speech get “tons of coverage,” positioning him as the tone-setter on Israel inside the Dem party.
• Panel Reaction: Admiration for Emanuel’s boldness, but recognition that it might help other Jewish Democrats (Pritzker, Ossoff, Shapiro).
• Dems’ Israel Divide: Rahm tries to bridge the gap between pro-Israel and anti-Israel Dems, a rare stance.
  • “It's high time for a Palestinian Democrat... to make a similar trip and lecture... That hasn’t happened.” — Larry (38:54)

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Quick Hits

Republican 2028 Nomination Scene (39:13 – 41:16)

• Binary Prediction: Will there be a real contest? Larry says no (favoring a preordained Rubio or Vance). Jaime says yes, expecting a contested fight.

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Lightning-Round Audience Q&A (45:34 – 54:53)

• On MAGA vs. Left Populism: Panel agrees much overlap in grievances between right and left populists, but strong disagreement on solutions.
  • “I don’t disagree with their complaints… just vehemently disagree with their solutions.” — Larry (47:16)
• On Democratic Leaders Inspiring Young Men: Jaime names Wes Moore (“wonderful example of what strong masculinity looks like”), notes Dems less focused on moral guidance—more on competence.
• Ukraine-Negotiations Commentary: In-depth listener Q&A with recent traveler to Ukraine, underscores waning possibility for peace due to deep societal scars. Crimea likely "an albatross" for whoever holds it (54:53).

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Notable Quotes

• On the Democratic Process in Maine:

  “These are individuals who... couldn't always count on them to be on the party line.”
  — Jaime Moore (13:00)

• On Platner’s Future:

  “We should expect the Tucker Carlson-Graham Platner interview sometime in the next…”
  — Larry O’Connor (17:57)

• On Rahm Emanuel & Jewish Dems:

  “He’s actually doing a lot of the hard work up front… These conversations we’ve been having in the Democratic Party... have been very tough and there’s been no resolution.”
  — Jaime Moore (36:20)

• On Israel/Palestine Stalemate in U.S. Discourse:

  “It’s high time for a Palestinian Democrat... to make a similar trip and lecture the Arab Palestinian Muslims... That hasn’t happened.”
  — Larry O’Connor (38:54)

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Additional Topics Briefly Covered

• Sen. Mitch McConnell’s Health (56:50): Panel speculates he’s “pretty sick”—unlikely to return, drawing comparisons to Dianne Feinstein’s public decline.
• 2028 Democratic Polls: Mark floats belief that Bernie Sanders should be included in early polling, despite age concerns (60:21).

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Timestamps to Key Segments

| Topic | Time (MM:SS) | |----------------------------------------------------|---------------| | Maine Democratic Party Crisis | 06:08–16:17 | | Will the process be fair/establishment vs. outsider| 08:25–13:55 | | Fundraising fallout & Susan Collins' prospects | 13:55–15:49 | | Platner’s future & media speculation | 16:40–18:23 | | U.S.-Iran situation & political implications | 18:48–26:17 | | Ukraine arms deal and support | 26:32–28:53 | | Gavin Newsom’s trip, fundraising, and FBI probe | 28:53–33:42 | | Rahm Emanuel’s 2028 speech and Israel debate | 33:42–39:13 | | GOP 2028 nomination prospects | 39:13–41:16 | | Audience Q&A: populism, youth, Ukraine | 45:34–54:53 | | Mitch McConnell’s health | 56:50–58:48 |

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Memorable Moments

• Mark Halperin’s humor and dry tone (“Please, no smack in the chat. Peace, love and understanding is what we do around here. Even during times of war.” 00:31)
• The “Platner Problem”: The panel’s ongoing skepticism about whether Platner will stay in the background (“He’s going to want to be out there... He’s not going to want to give up the limelight.” 16:40)
• Playful banter and real candor: On French vs. Moroccan wine, on Newsom’s security detail, on which group is hardest to please (Jewish mothers win, 39:22).

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Tone and Language

• The tone is informal, sometimes sardonic, driven by seasoned political insiders who blend news analysis with sharp, sometimes world-weary humor and active listener participation.
• Speakers are careful to distinguish between speculation and reporting, often poking gentle fun at themselves and each other while maintaining a rapid news rundown pace.

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This summary covers the essential political analyses, notable exchange highlights, and key quotable moments. It should serve as a comprehensive orientation for anyone who missed the episode.

Transcript

[A]

Good morning, everybody. Welcome to the morning meeting. Based on the Network News Division's morning meeting, this program brought to you by two way. And today we have the honor. Pleasure. Hi, honor, rare privilege. Jaime Moore is here. Kevin is on assignment. Larry, of course, is here. Gentlemen, good morning to you.

[B]

Good morning. Good to see you, Jaime.

[A]

We'll talk a lot about Iran and a lot about Maine. Both have good lobsters. That's the through line. We'll also talk about Ukraine. We'll talk about 2028 stuff. Super curious to hear what Larry and Jaime think of the reviews of the Rahm Emanuel speech. Incredible topic. Stock market futures are up. I couldn't tell you why. Jobless claims slightly less than expected. 215,000. Oil continues to go up. We'll talk about all of that here. I'll run through the daybook. And then of course, we'd welcome your participation if you're here in the two way platform and you'd like to be in on the conversation. What a wonderful opportunity to talk to two experienced hands. Hi ma'. Am. Larry o'. Connor. Please raise your hand if you're watching on excerpt YouTube. Please, no smack in the chat. Peace, love and understanding is what we do around here. Even during times of war. No, I would say especially during times of war. Even as the good Democrats of Maine try to figure out WTF for their process, please extend the presumption of grace to all Mainers. All right, let me run through the daybook for everybody and then I'm looking at, looking at the wrong thing here because there's no, no day book here. Anyway, the president's back home. He's had some late nights lately. He's been getting home like after midnight. And I think the poor report said he got home at like 2am last night. Better than the 4am he had the other day. But nothing much on his schedule publicly. He's got executive time now. Intelligence briefing at 1 o', clock, 3 o', clock, signing in the Oval, closed press then policy meeting, closed press at 4, policy meeting, closed press at 5. So in theory, we will not see the wartime president today. On camera. JD Vance after his travels yesterday, don't know what he's up to. House and Senate remain out. Gavin Newsom starts a three day tour. Here's the Politico headline on this new

[B]

scum, by the way.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Connecting, connecting the scum dots.

[A]

He's, he's in the Silver State today meeting with some labor leaders and elected officials. This is a big trip. Then he's going to some Southern states. And you know, this is what if you want to run for president, this is when you gain chits. Barack Obama, little covered, appreciated in 2006, campaigned for a ton of folks around the country and got a lot of chits and impressed a lot of people. And it's what, it's what powered Harry Reid and others, Claire McCaskill, Kathleen Sebelius. They saw him go to red areas, blue areas, purple areas in 2006 and they said this guy should be our nominee, not Hillary Clinton. And so these trips are all super important. We'll talk about that in just a minute. World Cup 1 match today, France vs Morocco. Jaime, who do you like in that match?

[C]

Morocco.

[A]

Morocco. Larry?

[B]

I like the wine better in France, so I'm going with France.

[A]

You ever had a good Moroccan wine?

[B]

Never. I don't think it exists.

[D]

Jaime.

[A]

France is heavily favored. Why do you say Morocco?

[C]

I well, this is, this is kind of tried. I, I just chose Morocco about, about three weeks ago and I've been riding with them, so now got it.

[A]

They're very exciting team.

[B]

Yes, they are.

[A]

And I wouldn't be surprised if either team won any of the remaining matches. It's all they're eight solid teams here. All right, quick word from a sponsor and then we'll hit right into Maine. Meta is doing something on the economy that's super important and urge you to go to the website and take a look at what they're doing. It's called America's Workforce Academy, built by Meta, done in partnership with some great groups, National Urban League, Associated Builders and Contractors, the CBRE and and others. It's a program designed to make sure that the jobs not of the future, but the jobs of the present. The kind of jobs we need to build the data centers that are powering AI, electricians, fiber technicians, plumbers, welders, others. All that physical infrastructure requires skilled labor. You not just need to learn how to do the job, you need to get the certifications. And a lot of people, younger people, people looking to make change careers, veterans, they can't afford to make the change to a new career because they've got to keep doing their current job. Meta solves that through this new program by covering everything they cover tuition, travel, lodging, certification process and then at the end you guaranteed job offer from one of Meta's contractor partners when you complete the program. So go to meta.com AmericasWorkForceAcademy now and read more about it and if you want participate in it, become someone who gets the benefit of this program. Meta.com AmericasWorkForceAcademy.

[E]

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[A]

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[F]

I was at Harvard Law School. I was. Blah, blah, blah. I looked up. Let me tell you something. There's kids in my neighborhood putting in Sheetrock that are smarter than you.

[C]

AI is going to disrupt a lot of stuff. It is never going to disrupt physical

[A]

blue collar trade skill.

[C]

And the guy just looked at me

[A]

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[G]

Unless

[E]

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[A]

All right, we'll come back to Platner, maybe. But Larry, I know Republicans. I saw my friend Clay on Twitter today. They're making fun of the process. They're saying, you know, they're invalidating the votes in the primary by swapping out, but Platner stepped down. I mean, they have to. They have to find a solution. So leave aside the criticism that this is not as representative as a primary. Does it seem like the main Democratic Party is headed to a process that is not only fair, open and transparent, which everybody says it should be, but will yield a competitive nominee? Do they seem on track to you?

[B]

Well, I don't know if they'll have a competitive nominee. As we've discussed the prospects here, as you put it, Mark, they're all sort of B leaguers. They're JV type politicians. Otherwise they would have run and won in the attempts that they've had. I don't think we're making fun. I think what we're doing is we're holding Democrats up to the standard that they constantly hold us up to, claiming that we're against democracy when they have a pretty clear track record now of subverting the will of the voters.

[A]

Larry, first of all, turn your mic down. Way too hot if you can. If Platner had died, they would have had to do something I mean, this is what happens. They have to replace the guy.

[B]

So he didn't die well, but he

[A]

chose not to run.

[B]

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I watched the 11 minute video. He was forced out. He did not choose not to run. He had no choice.

[A]

Says, he says he was forced out. You're still too loud, Jaime. Let's break my thing down into two parts.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Does the Democratic Party of Maine and you know, you know as much about the dynamics of this and all the people who want to say, do they seem on track to have a good process, a process that they can look at and be proud of at this point to you?

[C]

Yeah. I mean, look, they, I mean, they're obviously losing sleep over this. And I, I have, I'm a big fan of the Maine Democratic Party and the people who work in that party, the exec director and the party chair, and they are trying their best to make this look they have. This is an unusual situation. We have no choice but to find a new nominee in Maine right now. We plied to dropping out last night and so they're doing all they can. The thing that I'm hearing from Maine right now is there's a lot of different individuals across the state who have different opinions. And so some sort of a caucus process, to Larry's point, may not seem as Democratic as you would like, but that's probably the only way they can get to. To the nominee within the next three weeks, to be honest, which they have to do.

[B]

It's their only choice.

[A]

Does the process that they're engaged in favor an establishment candidate or a. An insurgent, an outsider? It doesn't seem to me it. Does either of you think it seems pretty open, right?

[C]

Yeah, it's hard to say right now. One of the things that we all love about Maine politics is how independent minded a lot of Mainers are. And you're going to see this in this process. You know, east main, the west Main, middle Maine, they all the coast, they're all sort of very divided on how they want to approach this process and what sort of Canada they want. So I do think you'll probably end up getting a more competitive candidate than you would in a normal state process in different states. Because Maine's so independent minded.

[A]

Either. Do either of you see any. Larry. Sorry, I'll ask and then to pick up. Do either of you see any indication that, that any faction is trying to influence the process? Again, we don't have a lot of visibility into what they've done. They met yesterday Privately, it's.

[B]

It does.

[A]

It seems like they're trying to come up with a fair process rather than some faction or some candidate influencing it. Is that how it seems to you or does it or not? Does it seem like there's the fixes in for somebody?

[B]

No, it doesn't. Doesn't seem like the fix is in.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Although I will. I mean, the one person who is telegraphing that he's trying to influence the process is Graham Platner.

[D]

Yes.

[B]

And Jaime, I think that's the big question from my perspective, is the party has to figure out how to thread this needle. Where they get a candidate. You okay?

[D]

I'm fine.

[B]

Where they get a candidate that can be competitive against Susan Collins, that they'll be happy with, but at the same time, they don't alienate the 80,000 small money donors that Platner's been able to harness and all of those people that came out to vote for him. That's not an easy slot to fill.

[C]

And you and I both, we both know, Larry, that that's going to be an impossible needle to thread. And some, at some point you're going to lose either some voters on the left, you're going to lose some voters in the middle depending on how the process goes. And I think, you know, we have to. I know we're going to talk about Platner in just a little bit, but he, he dropped out after allegations that he himself, you know, are going to have to contend with. And so, you know, I have my feelings on how he, you know, did this video yesterday and he was yelling at us the entire time, but it wasn't, you know, the main, the main party allowed for this process to happen A couple weeks ago. He won the primary, Janet Mills dropped out. And so all the things sort of, you know, that he sort of rebutted last night, we allowed to happen. And so he chose to step aside because he had no choice. After all his allegations have, you know, come and snowballing against him. And, and to be quite frank, he never really got on solid footing after Janet Mills knocked him in the face a couple of months ago with those two ads.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And so, you know, I can't say I feel sorry for him, but I do feel sorry for the main Democrats who have to deal with this.

[A]

Do either of you see a front runner right now? Is Troy Jackson the front runner or more he would like to be. There's now he would, but they're all being very aggressive on social media, at least I see, I see a dozen names, and I really think eight of them could actually end up with it. But Jackson seems to be the front runner it all. Do you guys agree with that or do you see anybody else who's strong?

[B]

That's the appearance. That's the appearance.

[C]

Right now. The Secretary of State's going to probably step out a little bit more soon and then obviously is going to, you know, make his rounds today.

[A]

Who is.

[C]

It's Dan Cleveland who owns the. Oh, Dan Cleveland Company. Yeah.

[A]

What. What about, what about this woman who initially claimed Pat Platner was supporting her state legislator?

[C]

Well, they said that she's going to likely step into the arena today, but I think there's going to be some contention if he's actually going to support her or not.

[A]

I don't know if that's going to happen any indication. You guys see. And of course, it's not clear that Platner's support is a positive necessarily with the electorate in question here. Do either of you see any indication. I don't yet. I'll tip my hand. That there's going to be negative campaigning along the progressive establishment access in this contest. It seems like, it seems like they're all, they're all selling themselves, but not really even like the outsiders are not saying don't let an establishment candidate win. You know what I'm saying?

[B]

I do know what you're saying.

[A]

It's pretty friendly so far.

[B]

Yes and no. But, but Jaime, and listen, you know main politics better than I do is certainly the Democrats. But, but by definition the establishment is making the choice. Right. Those, those delegates participating in the convention.

[A]

We don't know the hundred members of the State committee, a lot of them are not establishment. The chair is not really that establishment.

[B]

And we don't know who the delegates with terms here. I think if you're part of the Democratic Party establishment, you are in fact establishment. Right.

[A]

I don't think that's true in the age of Bernie Sanders. A lot of these people.

[C]

No, I agree with Mark. Yeah. And I don't think it's true in Maine. I mean, you think this is what I mean. Look, I love the Maine Democrats, but these are individuals who, when I was at the party, you know, we couldn't always count on them to be on the party line. Yeah, they have always had sort of an outsider's perspective. Even those who are running the party apparatus. I think to Larry's point, yes, the establishment Democrats who are part of the central committee are putting together the process, but the members, the delegates are going to choose not all going to be establishment Democrats.

[B]

Got it Right.

[C]

They're going to choose the candidate, as

[A]

I understand it, the electorate, 600 people, 500 of whom are yet to be chosen. Right. And, and the, and the people who voted for Graham Platner can swarm to these events, figure out the rules and, and become delegates. And so, yes, Larry, you're right by some sense of the world, if you, if you're a delegate to this thing, your establishment. But, but not anymore.

[B]

I mean, but not in the mindset. Yeah, okay, well, yeah, but.

[A]

And not in the orientation of who they vote for. A lot of the Democratic parties in the era, Bernie Sanders, have been taken over, as Jaime well knows, by people of the far left. And they've, they've had various degrees of success. Last question before we talk briefly about, about Platner. I was surprised to see I didn't really track how big a hit Platner's fundraising had taken since Mills hit him. Not just big donors, but also grassroots. And so we've. See, we talk about this here all the time. I always use I'm a. Your friend, Jamie Harrison as the example. We see it with Talarico. If you're a D. Senate candidate in the era of Donald Trump, you just turn on the Internet and you can raise tens of millions of dollars, typically, do we assume that whoever the Democrat is, even if they are not major league, which is, again, my, my, my view of this group right now, do we assume that they're going to be able to just, I'm the, I'm the Democrat, I won the nomination, give me money that they will. Jaime, is that a foregone conclusion or. Not necessarily.

[C]

I think initially, yes, there will be a quick bump because people will feel some sort of, you know, emotional connection with this candidate because they put their, you know, their name in, you know, on the ballot for the lack of campaigning from Graham Platner. But I think once it sorts out, I think I said this to you maybe last week. I don't think this race is going to be the race that we're watching the closest. I think we're going to get a good, clean sort of clean slate with a new Democrat. But I think as it stands, Susan Collins, once people start thinking about her ranking her power appropriations and they look at what's happened over the last few months with Democrats, I think they're going to have a second. They're going to take a second look at this, and Susan Collins is going to be in a better place than she was just a couple of Months ago. And so I think Ohio and others, Iowa, and those states are going to emerge as a little bit more important in the next couple. Couple of weeks when people start looking at those candidates then the main race.

[A]

I still think that I agree with you. You know, Politico had a story that said the exact opposite, and it claimed to be quoting some Collins person saying, we want Platner. We're sorry to lose him. I just, I just don't buy that because it's going to be very hard for anybody. Even if the person gets picked, turns out to be just a phenomenal talent, it's going to be very hard for them to hire staff, rent a headquarters, start a fundraising schedule, issue platform. And the cons people are going to try to kill them in two seconds.

[B]

Yep. And it's going to be very hard for them to rail against DC political entity, super PACs and all of these big, deep pockets, because that's the only way they're going to stand a chance at this point is to utilize super PAC money. So that's a big weapon against Susan Collins.

[A]

I wonder, I wonder. I wonder if APAC will offer him some money.

[B]

Okay, Will. Diabolical.

[A]

I'm a. Will we ever. Will we see Platner again? My theory is that once, like in a couple days, when people stop staking at his house and stop caring about what he thinks, that he's going to want to be. He's going to want to be out there. He's not going to want to give up the limelight because of his, his, his mindset. So will we hear from him again? Will the president.

[C]

I think. I think he's done. I, I can't see a place in this party for him right now, particularly as he's going to go through his own process. We don't know where this is going to go yet. I mean, there's still maybe some criminal charges, some somewhere down the road maybe. And we know, and Larry, we've talked about this before. You know, the Republican Party, they were holding other pieces of oppo that they were going to release in two weeks and which we still don't know what that is yet. And so, yeah, he's going to have a mess he's had to deal with. He and his wife Amy are going to figure that out themselves.

[A]

Yeah, I know, I know. You say the party won't want him around and maybe the press will lose interest, but you think he'll continue to make videos? You think he'll talk about the race? You think he'll Think about running for something else.

[C]

I think he will try. But think about this. You know, Mandani and AOC and Bernie Sanders and to a certain extent Elizabeth Warren. They are not going to want this to be an albatross song on their neck as they try to get this, you know, what money out of politics, money in your pocket, you know, Medicaid for all message seated again and anti corruption. They're going to want him out of the picture, you know, so. Yeah, I don't think they're going to. He's so support. Yeah.

[B]

First of all, keep Amy Gardner in your prayers because I do worry about her in this setting, especially with a guy like this in the House and how desperate he might be. And also, Mark, I think it's fair to say that we should expect the Tucker Carlson Graham Platner interview sometime in the next.

[A]

Oh, that's. Yeah, Larry, you're right. Coming. Coming soon. Or, or maybe, maybe the next time Kevin's out we sleep, slide him into the slot here. If I was not available, I, I

[B]

will also not be available that day. I apologize.

[A]

See if we can find. I think we'll find maybe would be on that day. All right.

[B]

Could Tucker Carlson run for that Democrat nomination there? He's a Mainer. He lives there. He's got residents.

[A]

I think his residency is Florida.

[B]

He matches a lot of the policies that Platner supports. What do you think? Jaime Carlson, 26.

[C]

It's still a close primary, so I think it's too late for him to change his changes.

[A]

Registration.

[B]

Just checking.

[D]

All right.

[A]

The president yesterday made it clear if you took him at his word, he's done with Iran. The mou. The Wall Street Journal editorial board says, okay, go take their nuclear material by force and take the straight by force. They're one of many hawkish voices saying, thank you, Mr. President, for recognizing that. Here's the headline from the Journal editorial. Thank you, Mr. President, for recognizing that you can't trust Iran. And they call it the age of innocence ushered in by J.D. vance lasted three weeks. Airstrikes, we don't know if they're going on at this hour, but they went into Thursday.

[D]

Here.

[A]

Here's the AP headline. 110. And the US hit apparently hit some infrastructure for the first time since the MoU talks began. And Iran responded by hitting Bahrain, Kuwait and Qatar in crossfire. That again threatened the interim deal. The strait, apparently, according to everything I've read, is closed. And so effectively, well, you know, oil prices presumably will still be affected. 109 US embassy in Jordan put out a security alert this morning warning about the safety of Americans in Jordan. I don't know what that, what that, all that means, but. And the Iranians are speaking a very bellicose way. 112 if you strike. As a tweet from senior Iranian official, if you strike, you'll get hit. The president denied that he switched to the old Air Force One plane for security purposes, but others are saying yes, they did. Here's the tweet. America stalls and learned that bullying and breaking promises are no longer cost free. Let me put it plainly. If you strike, you'll get hit. Don't flail around pointlessly or you'll sink even deeper. The Strait of Hormuz will open. Only open with Iranian arrangements, not American threats. So it's pretty clear Iran still wants to keep its nuclear program charged for the strait, be a state sponsor of terror and, and, and, and get all their money back from unfrozen assets and get the reparations and I mean the sanctions off. So, so the president called them scum. You know, I'm a, I'm a student, as all of us are, of Donald Trump's insults. And I thought, you know, I can't remember, has he used scum all that much? Guys, can you name anybody else he's

[B]

called scum other than new scum? I can't think of somebody.

[A]

I can't think of any. Right.

[B]

Maybe Michael Cohen.

[A]

Here's a little reminder of just. This is a partial list. So you don't think he put this up, never having used it before. Scum bunch call it the scumbunch here at the morning meeting, Adam Schiff and Andrew Weissman, Jack Smith, Norm Eisen crew, cnn, msnbc, New York Times reporters covering a lot of different stuff. Barack Obama officials, radical left, people surrounding Kamala Harris, on and on and on. It turns out scum is one of the go tos, which I'm surprised to see in any event. Larry, does he have. What are the options now for the President besides full scale kinetic destruction of Iran bombing them back? The Stone Age? Is it as an option to see if negotiations will work again or is that really no longer an option?

[B]

You know, there are still some people who are saying that a lot of the bluster, I shouldn't call it bluster. A lot of the things that you heard from President Trump at NATO was bluster. And it was designed to scare the daylights out of Iran and get them back to the table. But most people don't believe that's the case. That Take him, take him at his word that he is done. He's sick and tired of being sick and tired with who he's dealing with. And I think he projected yesterday during that sit down with Zelenskyy, that was extraordinary, that maybe the Navy blockade comes back on. Maybe the blockade is just for Iranian ships. And he felt confident that Iran couldn't put any more mines in the Strait. He said maybe Carg island needs to be back on the table. It looks like he's evaluating a lot of different options. And last night we bombed a bridge and a couple of other assets. So, yeah, I mean, we're ramping back up to, I don't know if it's full blown, you know, turn the desert into glass kind of carpet bombing, which he has resisted. But. But right now, strategic military strikes seem to be in action.

[A]

Jaime, what are, what are people running Republican campaigns because the midterms haven't moved. They haven't moved the data, that thing. So what are Republicans thinking who are running campaigns about. About what happened yesterday?

[C]

I mean, look there, if I were a Republican and some that I've spoken to, they're not happy about it, obviously. I mean, look, I feel like we're having deja vu right now. We've had this conversation six times over the last 120530 days, and we keep getting back to the same question. Where do we go next? Do we go to Larry's point and just bomb these guys to oblivion, or do we allow them to continue to move in the direction that they are moving? As you mentioned earlier, Mark, they are still very interested in sponsoring terrorism. They're interested in keeping their, their weapons and their bombs. And that's obviously not advantageous for America and for the world. And so the President has put himself in an almost impossible situation right now where he's not going to be able to end this war before the midterms. And there is a huge potential for the oil prices to skyrocket and for gas prices to continue to go up and for things to become increasingly more difficult to be, to be afforded in America. And so Republicans running in the midterms, they're not liking this at all. And I think, particularly those in the Senate who are now seeing, you know, as we had this hoopla of Democrats taking the Senate and the Republicans are like, probably not going to happen. These Republican senators, Republican Senate candidates are going to be a little bit more direct about the President trying to bring a resolution to this war or being realistic about where we are.

[A]

Larry, if the President tries to reopen this blockade, the strait from Iran, but open it for others. The Pentagon has told him, we've reported here before, that's a very tough mission, very dangerous mission. But if they do that and they bomb Iran and they successfully keep Iran from counter striking against American bases and allies in the region, that could all happen. It's a heavy lift, but it could, and if that's the status quo through the midterm, say, or through, through the summer, is politically, is that, is that, is that a sellable outcome? Can Republicans say, well, we're on the march now. We're, we're, we're, we're, we're dealing, the President's dealing with Iran and maybe, and maybe the markets which have, we have to say on oil and the market equity markets, they've been remarkably resilient in the face of negative news. So could that be, could that be if again, there's two big gifts, which is getting oil through and not suffering horrible counterattacks, but if they could execute on that, would that be a good, a good outcome for the President, short

[B]

of a complete end of hostilities? That's the best possible outcome, I think, right now. And it's not unreasonable. Just for point of clarification, the US Blockade would not be of the strait. The US Blockade is of, of Iranian ports, which, which, yes, it's, it's complicated, but it was pretty effective when we had it in place. And by the way, I think, and I checked this during my show this morning there, the strait is still open, but it's limited capacity. I think about 25% of the Strait is, is open at this point. There are some lanes that are operating.

[A]

Yeah. Although I don't think ships are actually going through them. And, and of course, right before, that's what I was told right before the mou.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I don't know. It's not a lot. It's not, it's not, it's not, it's

[B]

like 30 or 40. Yeah.

[A]

Right before the MOU, the US claims it started to secretly take ships through and it wasn't, it wasn't bragging about it and, but we do always have to wonder about the insurance companies and the captains and the ship owners and whether they'll go through knowing that Iran just struck some ships. So we'll see. Okay. Ukraine. The president yesterday was as warm about President Zelensky as he's been in quite some time. Not only making the deal to allow them to start to manufacture Patriot missiles on their own, but spoke very favorably of them and positively about him and somewhat negatively about Putin, although not entirely. And the president said he might go to Ukraine at some point. Larry, where are. Where does that leave us? Was yesterday meaning meaningful or just the latest iteration of Donald Trump's fickle relationship with Ukraine?

[B]

I think this was Vladimir Zelinsky's best day of the entire second term of President Trump. And it was because the big game changer yesterday that was announced to get some coverage was that the president is open to, if not encouraging, the licensing of weapons systems like Patriot missiles to the country of Ukraine so that they can manufacture them themselves, which is. It could be a game changer in this fight. And by the way, in exchange, he was lauding, appropriately, the ingenuity of the drone warfare that Ukraine has been able to engage in, the relatively inexpensive and quick manufacturing of those drones and the deadly effectiveness of them against Putin's war machine, and we will share in that technology with Ukraine. That was a big deal, I think, and Vladimir in Moscow was not very happy about it.

[C]

Jaime, I've been waiting for the moment where I could just completely agree with Larry, and this is it. I fully agree with him. And I think President Trump, I don't know if he knew just how resilient Ukraine would be. And to Larry's point about their new sort of their drone warfare, they've been so resilient, one and two, they've actually made inroads in sort of carving some of their land back, which I don't think President Trump really realized they were going to do. So he. In some ways it's, you know, like, oh, man, they're not as much of losers as I thought they would be. So maybe we should help them out a little bit more. But I do, I agree with Larry. I think this was more significant than we can give credence to right now because of Iran and all the other things that are happening in the world. But I do think that was a big step for that relationship.

[A]

Well said. Hi. We're going to do a little educating for folks. Not all midterm surrogates are created equal. You know, you need infrastructure to go out, and some of these folks rely on the infrastructure of the candidates who invite them. Some, like Governor Newsom, travel with their own infrastructure, not just because he's got security with him, but he'll travel with political aides, and they'll be making sure they get all the email addresses and all the benefits of being a surrogate. Talk about how these, how these trips come about. Is it demand side, is it supply side? Has Gavin Newsom put together a three day trip for midterm campaigning out of state?

[C]

Yeah, and I was just with some of his people recently. He travels a lot smaller than you would think. He's going to have to beef that up a little bit. But look, it's a little bit of both, Marcus. A little bit of supply, a little bit of demand. So we talked about this, I think a couple of months ago with Larry when he was raising all of that money after winning that, that ballot measure in California. And so what he's been able to do with, and I mentioned this, the money he's raising in that pack is money he's going to use to invest in other candidates. And that's one part of it. And so you get invited to campaign with these candidates when you're giving them a large check. And so they'll, and then you start building a trip around. So you go for one maybe campaign rally and maybe an off the record at a coffee shop, an ice cream shop, and then you build your own political apparatus around it. And so as you see, he's building a sort of a three day tour, some in the South. One of the, one of the things that people are saying about Gavin Newsom right now is because he's a California politician, he doesn't know how to do retail politics in a way that's going to matter in the primary, particularly with 22 candidates that we're expecting in the Democratic primary in 2028. And so you've started build your political apparatus around the center point of a campaign rally and you build from there. What he's trying to do is two things he's trying to, or three things. One, show that he supports these candidates with the money that he's raised. Show that he's, he can be knowledgeable about states outside of California, particularly those in the south, who have minority and black voters and older voters. And then thirdly, he's just trying to keep his name in the national arena as much as possible while also doing local media. Because you're also there, Mark, you know this. And Larry, you guys have worked in local media before. A lot of these candidates go down there and they sit for local interviews or they start building relationships with local media. Because once you get into the primary, you want to, you want to rely on that.

[A]

You want to be on a first name basis with the political reporters. Hi Mub, that was brilliant. The one thing I'll annotate, just, just because it could be confusing to some of you, politics, like any other profession has Terms of art. And it's funny, Hyman referred to an off the record. Most of us think of off the record as something you can't cover, you can't report, you can't repeat. Off the record is also applies to it won't be on the schedule, but the candidate will go to like an ice cream parlor or a diner and the press is allowed to come cover it. It's not off the record in any sense. Just the, the existence of it in advance is considered off the record. Even though they'll tell all the traveling

[B]

press it's a scheduled spontaneity. Yeah.

[A]

I wonder, I wonder on this trip, given that it's July, how much national press will go, how much California press will go, or will it just be the in state? It'll be interesting to see because most of his previous trips, like when he went to South Carolina, have gotten a lot of national press have gone, and that obviously amplifies it. Larry, how are you feeling about Newsom as formidable or not? I know your default position is his record in California is a disaster. He'd be roadkill in general. Does he seem more formidable to you now than he did before or not?

[B]

No, he seems more vulnerable to me right now. But before I give you a full answer, I do have a quick, quick question for Jaime. Is he still sort of the number one person invited to raise money in a campaign if you're, if you're, if you're helping to raise money for a congressman in Missouri? 5.

[A]

Are you not counting Obama?

[C]

Yeah, I was going to say. Well, thank you, Mark, for the. Look, Mark knows me well now.

[B]

I meant of the people who are running in 28.

[C]

That's what I, he, he is. But you got to think about this. Governor J.B. pritzker. They're kind of what. And what. J.B. pritzker can give a. Check out his own, you know, pocketbook, but he can also raise money as well. So they're starting to have a little bit of fight right there.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So. So it is forming. The problem is, and it didn't get a whole lot of attention because of platinum and because of Iran and because of all the other stuff going on. But this revelation that this FBI investigation included someone in his inner circle, Ms. Podesta, Alexis Podesta, I think her name is. She wore a wire for the FBI that sent shockwaves in Sacramento and in various corners of the media in California. This investigation is more formidable and important and dangerous for Newsom than I think has been reported up until now. And watch that space because I think that he's even more vulnerable than he was a few months ago.

[A]

We'll track the whole trip. We'll bring you highlights of it. So stay tuned to both this program and two Way tonight. Article in the Wall Street Journal today about the fact that Rahm Emanuel pointed out in his speech yesterday that a lot of Jewish Americans are thinking of running for the Democratic nomination more than ever. And of course, it's ironic at a time when Israel is one of the biggest dividing points in the party, not just Rahm Emanuel, but Shapiro, maybe Ossoff and Pritzker. And then also I can never remember what's in the senator from Alyssa Slotkin. There's a bunch of people and, and Sanders is, is, is Jewish, although from a different wing of the party. Here's the headline from the Journal.

[B]

He, he's Jewish in name Jewish.

[A]

Yeah, he's like, he's like the opposite of what's the guy's name from Long island, the congressman who lied.

[B]

Oh, Santos, George Santos. He's Jewish.

[A]

He's no, but, but Bernie isn't. Bernie is Jewish, but he's not Jewish. Here's the headline from the Journal. Jewish Democrats eyeing 2028 presidential bids confront Parties Hostility for Israel. Rahm Emanuel Delivers a tough love message to Israel that is implications for his party's politics back home. If the, if the metric of success is just the volume of coverage, we talked about this yesterday. Rahm's got a ton of coverage for his speech. If you read Michael, Michael's piece that he wrote on Substack, who was at the speech. Here's the headline from the Times of Israel, Rahm Emanuel pro Israel Democrat Can Win White House in 28, but only if Status Quo changes the coverage. A lot of the coverage said in effect, you're trying to pander to the anti Israeli wing of your party, it won't work because they won't buy you. First of all, Jaime, how did, how did Rahm do? Was that speech worth doing or if he could do it over again, it wouldn't be worth doing?

[C]

No, it was, it was absolutely worth and look, and I, I, I, I feel like as I was having many conversations about Gavin Newsom, you know, over the last 1212 months, I've been having as many conversations about Rahm Emanuel in the last two months. And so I am, I have a bunch of friends, bunch of Democrats who are picking up what Rahm's putting down. And I think Rahm and with this speech and this trip, it's not Just a speech. It's the trip to Israel and the boldness of that at this moment right now and the time that he did it says a lot about not only what he said, but about who he is and the kind of candidate he's going to want to be when he runs. I don't know if he's going to get far, but I do know that he's going to be someone who's going to set the tone for what we're talking about in 2028. And then more importantly, we talk about this particular speech. And with so many Jewish Democrats who are thinking about running for president, he's actually doing a lot of the hard work up front. These conversations we've been having in the Democratic Party around Israel, around aipac, around Judaism and anti Semitism and it is these things have been very tough and there's been no resolution. Right now I think Rahm is putting out and saying, hey, here's where things are. This is how we should be talking about it. These are the problems we're having around the conversation and this is how we move forward. I don't know if it's going to benefit him, but it could benefit Pritzker and it could benefit Ossoff or it could have been Shapiro, who we didn't mention earlier could benefit Shapiro.

[A]

I knew I was missing a key one. Thank you, Larry. For those, for those Americans who, who are troubled, whether they're Democrats or Republicans, conservatives or liberals, who are troubled by not just anti Semitism, but a hostility to aipac, a hostility to Israel, the US Relationship with Israel. For those is, is, is what Rahm's doing important? Because he's at least trying to bridge the difference. He's trying to say we need a good relationship with Israel. But here's the stuff that needs to change. Not very many people are trying that. Most people are either the relationship needs to be destroyed or just reflexively we have to do everything the way way it's been done in the past. So yeah, maybe he didn't execute it perfectly and maybe in the context of politics it won't work. But is the message important to you?

[B]

The message is important. And listen, I'm neither a Democrat nor a Jew, so I'm trying to be as objective as possible here. And I'm already on the record saying that Rahm Emanuel is one of the ones that scares me the most. Should he get the nomination in 28. Cuz I think he's a very serious politician with serious ideas. The problem, I think there are two problems I got an ick factor watching this speech for two reasons. The first was as important as the message was, and he may even be right about everything he was saying to that assembled body in Israel. But you can't remove the fact that it was delivered not for the benefit of the people of Israel as much as it was to the benefit of Rahm Emanuel and fellow Jewish Democrats who want to advance their careers in America, right?

[F]

Yes, sir.

[B]

And so there's an ick factor there. And secondly, it is worth noting that it's high time for a Palestinian Democrat American or an Arab American Democrat or a Muslim American Democrat to make a similar trip and lecture the Arab Palestinian Muslims who live in that region and tell them what they need to do better to solve this problem. And that that hasn't happened.

[A]

All right, I'll give you three choices. Which of these three groups is the hardest to please? Right. Which of these three groups is the hardest to please? Israeli Jews, anti Israel liberals, progressives, or Jewish mothers? Jaime. Oh, man, that's the hardest. Who's the hardest to please of those three groups?

[C]

I've been in a lot of Jewish mothers homes, so I don't want to get in trouble and say C. So I'm just going to say B.

[A]

B. Okay, Larry. Of the three, who's the hardest to please?

[B]

Being raised by a Jewish Catholic mother, I mean, there was a lot of guilt in that household. I'm going to have to go with mom.

[A]

Go with C. Okay, one more topic. And then to your questions, please raise your hand if you want to get in on the conversation on this or any other topic. Two interesting pieces about the potential 2028 Republican nomination fight. First, 118 in Axios. Alex Eisenstadt, who's a great reporter, reports that at a private conference, Ken Griffin said that he'd back Marco Rubio over JD Vance in 2028. There are many donors, mega donors, who share that preference of Rubio to Vance. Not all of them, but. And Griffin lives in Florida now. He's known Rubio supported Rubio in the past. So not a huge surprise, but interesting tea leaf. And then this story. Interesting that we may not have this one, but Bob Costa works for CBS News and wrote a big piece for Free Press, sign of the merging of the Bari Weiss empires. But his piece ran through a bunch of people who could, in theory run, including Mike Pence, to try to have a fight over the heart and soul of the Republican Party. I continue to believe it's Vance as he wants it. And if Vance doesn't want it. It's Rubio's if he wants it, meaning the Trump endorsement and that the Trump endorsement will be all. And that there really won't be a contest. So, guys, just a short binary choice. Will there be, regardless of whether you think the explanation is Rubio or Vance or whatever, will there be a truly contested fight for the Republican presidential nomination in 2028? Yes or no? Larry O'. Connor.

[B]

Not Events or Rubio are in it.

[A]

I'm asking yes or no. Will there be? You have to game out the whole thing. Yes or no? Mandatory prediction? No. Jaime Moore.

[C]

Yes. I fully believe there will be.

[A]

The correct answer is no. We'll be right back with predictions. No. A quick word from sponsors and then to your questions. Please raise your hand if you'd like to get in on the conversation.

[B]

I'm going to. Bob, you should read that Free Press article by Bob Costa. One thing that was left out in Mark's intro is that he cut his teeth in National Review. That's his origin story. Yeah, yeah.

[F]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

Robert Costa started at National Review and he is very well sourced within Republican circles. For a mainstream media weenie reporter, he actually has a lot of good friends on my side of the equation.

[A]

Bob is. Bob's one of the best political reporters of the last, last generation. Okay, ladies and gentlemen, here we go. Cozy Earth is our sponsor. Got a great note from one of you about the Cozy Earth sheets. We'll put it up on the screen. I tell you all, if you buy them, it'll change your life. And some of you say, well, Mark, they're just sheets. How could they change my life? Well, here's a text message. A guy one of one of you bought them for you for the. Your. The daughter. And here's the text message from the daughter. Dad, I swear I'm getting better sleep with these sheets. We love them.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

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[G]

From the State House to the courthouse, in the emergency room and in the classroom, Americans are losing trust in their leaders. In a 2025 U.S. news and World Report survey, 85% of Americans said government leaders care more about their own power than the people they serve. 73% are disappointed in healthcare leaders, 72% in business, and 68% in education. But there are still leaders worth believing in. I'm Eric Gertler, CEO and executive chairman of U.S. news World Report. This is the Best Leaders podcast sponsored by the Noble Reach Foundation. On this show, we'll go deeper into the stories, challenges and lessons of extraordinary leaders across public service, business, healthcare and education. You can find the best Leaders podcast from U.S. news World Report on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[A]

And we start with Angelo. Angelo, welcome in. Thank you for being part of the two way community. Unmute. Tell folks where you are and what's on your mind. For Jaime and for Larry.

[D]

Good morning. I'm in Manhattan. I think my building, my building's pretty stable. It's not about to collapse. Mark?

[A]

Yeah, that's, that's, that's rare. So congratulations for winning the lottery.

[D]

Thanks, Mark. I read your Daily Mail piece about the similarities between kind of the MAGA and the DSA populist beliefs. Yes, sir. But I do think they have different roots and solutions on this platform. I've been speaking a lot about the younger generation and I'd like to continue that today. More with the focus on Charlie Kirk before his tragic loss. And he was really trying to combat the rise of progressivism as a force that is actively ruining kind of Gen Z and millennials. He really believed that progressivism is trapping our younger generation in a cult of grievances and victimhood that strips away personal agency and forces kind of a psychological dependency on federal government. His true counter was really a belief that bringing back faith into political activism. And he really anchored it on marriages, mortgages and children. And you know, Charlie Kirk, I've missed him every day. And you know, Mark, he really brought me to you because you were constantly on his platform. So thinking about, you know, how is the Republican Party continuing this theme of moving people away from progressivism towards this MAGA GOP populism? I think I'm really interested in learning more about Larry and Jaime's belief. Yeah, yeah, go ahead.

[A]

Well, you did a great job of summarizing Charlie's thoughts, so thank you for that. Let's, let's get reaction from them first. Larry, go ahead.

[B]

And then 1000% agree with you, Angelo. And I try to say it as much as I can on my radio show and on my other platforms, including this one, that I don't necessarily disagree with. A lot of the complaints that the people who are voting for Zora Mandani or Graham Platner, I understand their complaints and I sympathize with them. I just vehemently disagree with their solutions and their way to fix those problems. In fact, I think they're going down the road of actually exacerbating those problems. That's what Charlie was trying to articulate and he did in a very compassionate way. I think that there is a battle within the Republican Party right now to try to harness that energy and harness those ideas and come up with good solutions that can be Republican ideas where government, we're not anti government. We just want government to work better and allow people to have the freedom to succeed rather than some of these other policies that actually punish people for succeeding. I suggest. Angelo, you read J.D. vance's new book, Communion. I just finished it. And the back half of it is really about policy shot through the lens of his faith. And it was eye opening to me. It was a much more political book than I expected. And I think that you'll hear a lot of the things that you're trying to find.

[A]

Jaime, I want you to respond, but I'd love to incorporate into your answer. Is there a Democrat or a liberal who is speaking to the same issues that Charlie was speaking to about meaning for young men, about the importance of home ownership in marriage? Is there somebody like that in your party?

[C]

Now, look, I, I mean, look, I, I, you know, I was on with you the night that Charlie was killed and I thought we had a great conversation. You guys know I am completely open to other sides and having a conversation, have friends on all sides and, and, but I do, I do think that, you know, part of Charlie's sort of thing was being aggrieved about how things are. And I, look, I, I just feel so differently about politics. I just don't seek, I don't seek sort of communion and community through my politics. I think my politicians, and I say

[F]

this all the time.

[C]

One of my favorite politicians right now is Daniel Laurie, who's the mayor of San Francisco. He's not inspiring, he's not talking about these things, but what he's doing is he's cleaning the city up. He's delivering great services. I don't need to be inspired by my politicians. I don't need a moral compass for my politicians. I need them to get up and go to work and do things that are going to be beneficial to my life, pick up my trash on time, make sure that I have an apparatus to get to work, make sure that I have my city cleaned up when need be. And so I'm not looking for no one to lecture me on marriage, my mortgage, on any of that. And so I don't think there's a Democratic politician doing that. I think what we're thinking and talking about is how to deliver health care. In a way that's going to be cost effective, but also deliver services that are going to be meaningful. And that's what I look for and what I care about in my politicians. And so I don't know. I don't want that. I'm not looking for that. So I don't think so.

[A]

Okay. Is there somebody in your party who you think effectively is talking to young men about meaning?

[C]

Yeah, I think a lot of people, I mean, a lot of our guys are. I mean, I think Wes Moore in particular, I mean, who is just a wonderful example of what strong masculinity looks like. He can still be compassionate. I love Wes. I think Wes is doing a great job of having that conversation. He's resonating all across the Internet, all across with young men in a way that is authentic. And I appreciate that.

[A]

Okay, Angela, thank you. Grateful to you. Andre, welcome in. Would love to hear what your thoughts were on yesterday and how important or not what happened at NATO and Turkey was for Ukraine. And thank you for being here.

[F]

Thanks, Mark. Fresh back from Ukraine two weeks ago and talking to a lot of people that was in the room that we saw in Ankara, which is a great city and everybody should visit. Major concern is we were kind of at this place last year when there was a conversation about Tomahawks. And similarly, we were all waiting for the dotted line. And dotted line never happened when Zelensky came to the White House. So it was a great announcement. I think everybody is also in Kuwait, in Europe, just waiting to see if actually the deal is signed when exactly Raytheon comes in. Now, we also know that this is going to take a long time for Raytheon come in, set up the factories, etc. So it's not an immediate concern, it's not an immediate solution. And so there's still going to be a conversation with Middle east allies that have patriots right now, European allies that do not want to give their patriots because they think they're going to get attacked by some missiles. So that's a immediate solution that needs to happen. I wanted to bring up the fact that, you know, one of the reasons I keep going to Ukraine, because you guys mentioned that the president was having an understanding that the tides have turned. In public polling in the United States, there's still a majority of people who support Ukraine, but because all of the focus has been taken onto Iran on the international segment of news, Americans really don't understand that Ukraine has turned the tide. So it's going to be interesting over the course of the year when the news finally brings that up more and more that what happens in the reaction towards Ukraine when Americans understand that we, we really should have been backing the horses winning right now.

[A]

Hi. My thoughts. Thank you for that, Andrew.

[C]

No, I look, I think you're right. Thank you. That was really well put. But I think you're absolutely right on the Ukraine piece. And I think we, to Larry's point, we recognize that yesterday in that conversation our president had with the president of Ukraine and they are and they are in a significant era right now that is going to, I think over the next couple of months, we're going to see Ukraine become a lot stronger and really start moving back to a place they were before this war, which is going to put us in some ways in a really peculiar place for Russia, which I don't, I'm interested where Larry's thoughts on this on how we are going to deal with the Russia relationship, you know, in the second half of President Trump's term. But this is going to be a big deal, Larry.

[B]

Yeah. Dodging that impossible question to answer, Jaime, I'd rather turn back and ask what did you what do you make of a constant sort of joke that we make here on the show, which is Vladimir Zelensky doesn't want to negotiate a peace deal when he's facing a losing hand and he's underwater with Russia. Nor does he want to negotiate a peace deal when he has the upper hand and he actually has a dominant, strong position against Russia. What scenario will a peace deal be reached, in your opinion?

[F]

The number one thing to understand is that Russia has never been interested in sitting across the table. That was the case in 2015. On, in 2015, there was a ceasefire signed for the parts in the east that were that were occupied a bit of the Donbas. And basically what happened is Russia and Ukraine would send people to their mandated by the agreement, diplomats to come sit in a room and Russia would just sit across with them and do nothing. Russia is just not interested in actually.

[B]

So it's not, so it's not reluctance on Zelensky's well, let me ask you the question more specifically. Do you see any sort of deal worked out that would be acceptable to Ukraine that doesn't include Crimea?

[F]

No. I think Crimea is going to fall anyway just because of its, its geography makes it very hard to defend, which is why it fell so quickly to the Russians and why it's so easy to take back. The other thing is whoever gets Crimea, it's, it's a, how do you a Welfare state. It's a. It's an albatross on anybody's economy. It has no natural resources. It has the coastline that you can.

[B]

It's got a port.

[F]

Yeah, it has a port. And as a. But in terms of having people on there, you need to import food, you need to import water, you need to import energy. It's just a hard place to manage. And Russia has realized this, that, you know, for all the glory that Putin had, it's cost a lot of money to keep it, and it seems to be that they might just need to cut their losses.

[A]

So, Andre, before you go, how's. How's morale in Kyiv?

[F]

It's not the morale. It's. I don't know if this is a good way to put it, because I have personally haven't been there. I just have a lot of friends. But there's a certain Israelification of society where I know personal friends who've grown up in Israel who just have this, you know, it's a long war, there's always going to be an enemy, etc. Etc. Whereas there used to be this idea that we could live in harmony with our neighbor. And so I don't think that even if you declare peace today, like Larry suggesting, you know, we have an agreement, etcetera, I think there are people that are so scarred and wounded by this that there's no amount of peacemaking and anything that will change their mind, they will be. You know, I can't think of another country that's bordering another country that just so hates the other country for what they did. And I think that's a reality. We've crossed the threshold from the first year where you could possibly make some peace to this intermediate period where you're probably going to have to wait an entire generation for the next generation to make peace.

[A]

Yeah, I think that. I think the closest metaphor would be Georgia and South Carolina. Thank you.

[B]

Thank you for being part of us in Canada. Let's not let them off.

[A]

Thank you for being part of our community and for sharing all that. All of that, and grateful to you. Thank you so much. Okay, Aaron, welcome in. Tell folks who don't know where you are what's on your mind for Larry and for Jaime.

[B]

Real, real quick one, gentlemen, and good morning from Houston.

[A]

On a scale of 0 to 10,

[B]

how alive is Mitch McConnell? Oh, dear.

[C]

Wasn't expecting that today,

[A]

you know. Well, I, I'm just. I'll just say, unless you want to accuse leading members of our government and America's top political commentator of lying he's very alive. So it's your choice. You can accuse them of lying or you can, so you're a 10, you're a 10, Mark. I, I, I don't know if I

[B]

would use the modifier very, I believe,

[A]

I believe, I believe Michael Jackson never had plastic surgery. So, yeah, I'm a 10. Larry.

[B]

My, my, it's funny, I had, I actually spoke about some other matters with Scott Jennings yesterday. He is a friend and a colleague and I didn't bring it, I was going to bring it up, but I didn't bring it up. I don't think I would call him very alive. I think, and I, and I wish him well and his family well. I don't think he'll be returning to the well of the Senate for a voter or valedictory speech, really.

[A]

I still do. I still do. Hi.

[B]

I don't, I think he's in pretty bad shape.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

Okay.

[A]

Well, he is in bad shape, but I think he's going to come back. Hi.

[C]

I, I think, I think he's pretty sick. I mean, I don't know. You know, I hate to speculate. I know a lot of the Internet, particularly some people, my party, are celebrating the prospect of his not coming back. But it's, you know, it's a life and he's a man and someone who means a lot to Kentucky, so, and his family, I don't know, I think he's really, really sick. I don't think he comes back. And we just saw this with, you know, a Senator Dianne Feinstein on the Democratic side and it got really sad very quickly.

[B]

It did.

[C]

And I think we're at risk of that happening with Mitch McConnell.

[B]

Mitch McConnell has a great legacy and if he had retired in a timely fashion and in a reasonable fashion like most Americans do, that would be the legacy we're talking about. Sadly, this is a big part of the narrative about him now and that's sad.

[A]

I want to dance with all three of you at the Capitol to commemorate his big return speech.

[B]

I'll be there.

[A]

Looking forward to that, Aaron. Thank you. Later today, let me tell you about some programming. First of all, group chat, four o' clock today. Nina Turner, Steve Alakara, Nancy Rommelman, Angie Wong are going to talk about today's news. A great group of people across the political spectrum. It's a show like no other. Conversation like no other. Please join my colleagues at 4 o' clock today for the group chat, 4 Eastern and then right after that, tonight's two way tonight. I knew I knew who was on two way tonight. It's plumb gone out of my head. Somebody chime in and tell me I

[B]

don't have it either.

[A]

It was Amber, but she's sick. She just had to cancel. Ah.

[G]

Oh.

[A]

It could just be me doing a Spalding Gray monologue about truck stops, rest stops on the New Jersey Turnpike. Well, you get what you, you get what you pay for. Anyway, five o' clock tonight. Later today, my new episode of Next up will be on. And as you all know, I've developed a strong belief that Bernie Sanders is going to end up being the front runner for the nomination and that he will and that he will run.

[B]

You got Byron York's attention on that one.

[A]

Byron York said I convinced him. Except for Bernie's age, which is the big strike against Bernie. So later today I will release my reported monologue explaining based on my reporting how Bernie can and surmount questions about his age. Do you guys know how, how old his parents were when they died?

[B]

Any ideas?

[C]

Like 95?

[B]

I don't, I don't know about the longevity.

[A]

The opposite of 95. His. Both his parents died under 60.

[B]

Wow.

[F]

Oh, wow.

[A]

Anyway, and, and it's also the case if you guys were doing a poll of New Hampshire or of national poll for 28, would you include Bernie on it or not?

[C]

I think you have to. Yeah.

[A]

There's very little polling that includes Bernie. Most people leave him off even though he's been far less Sherman esque about not running than people like Wesm Path. So anyway, that'll come later today and then drop on on YouTube and, and, and on podcast platforms. And then tomorrow morning this program will be here, Larry will be here, uh, Kevin back from assignment. And uh, Jaime, what do you do at 9 o' clock when you're not on the show? What do you typically do?

[C]

Well, I have a full time job, so. Yeah, normally with a client or on the Hill.

[A]

Yeah. Or watching.

[B]

If you're watching, perhaps watching. Jaime, you, you, you failed the test.

[A]

Yeah, Whenever possible. And of course the program's available on demand. We try to remind you all you can listen to it as a podcast as well. Thanks to Jaime for sitting in. Thanks to Larry, of course. And we'll see Kevin tomorrow. And thanks to all of you, I'm jumping over to Sirius XM right now.

[B]

And we're on with Katie pavlich tonight at 10:00pm we are in News Nation.

[C]

We are good.