AOC "Expresses Frustration" After Gaffe-Ridden Munich Trip; Guthrie Case Latest

Summary

The Morning Meeting – February 17, 2026

Episode Title: AOC "Expresses Frustration" After Gaffe-Ridden Munich Trip; Guthrie Case Latest
Hosts: Mark Halperin, Kevin, Larry, Andre
Podcast: The Morning Meeting (2WAY)

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Overview

Today's episode covers a packed news cycle, including the death and legacy of Jesse Jackson, significant diplomatic negotiations involving Iran, Ukraine, and Russia, the latest on Savannah Guthrie's family case, continuing fallout from the Jeffrey Epstein files (including the Clintons and Bill Gates), AOC's headline-making trip to Munich, political sparring over a major Potomac sewage spill, and the media's coverage of the Rhode Island mass shooting by an alleged trans suspect.

The tone is sharp, irreverent, and sometimes biting, particularly as hosts reflect on the intersection of media coverage, politics, and public perception.

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Key Discussions & Timestamps

Remembering Jesse Jackson’s Legacy

[03:32 – 13:06]

• Mark opens with the news of Jackson’s passing, emphasizing his role as a civil rights leader between MLK Jr. and Obama.

• Archival speech highlights (1984 DNC: “If blacks vote in great numbers, progressive whites win...” [04:13])

• The throughline from Jackson's work to today’s Democratic progressives.

• Personal anecdotes about Clinton's uneasy relationship with Jackson.

• Iconic lighter moment: Jackson reading “Green Eggs & Ham” on SNL [06:00].

  "I've met most of the leading political figures of the last 40 years in American politics and no one was larger than life in person than Reverend Jackson." — Host, [12:38]

• Larry & Kevin discuss the complexities of Jackson’s political style and influence, including lasting rule changes in Democratic primaries that benefited Obama.

Diplomatic Negotiations: Iran, Ukraine, Russia

[14:43 – 24:20]

• Kevin & Mark detail unprecedented back-to-back Geneva talks: Witkoff and Kushner meeting with Iranians, then Ukrainians and Russians.

• Low optimism on both conflicts:

  • Russia-Ukraine talks are downbeat; Russian delegate seen as a hardliner [16:49].
  • Market odds are gloomy for a near-future Ukraine land concession [17:57].
  • On Iran, U.S. military posturing increases; hosts speculate on odds of a deal vs. major military strike ([20% deal / 70% strike / 10% pinprick] – Mark, [22:05]).
  • Larry: “The die is cast, frankly. ...I think these discussions are window dressing.” [22:32]

• Quotes:

  "If Witkoff and Kushner pull this off, it's an incredible feat." — Mark, [20:13]

  "I'm leaning toward massive [strike]." — Larry, [22:28]

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Savannah Guthrie Family Case & Media Coverage

[15:56 – 16:49]

• Hosts note the sheriff’s official clearing of all Guthrie family members as suspects, criticizing amateur online sleuths and ongoing sensational coverage.
• Kevin: “You had all those Internet sleuths out there really kind of hurting the family at this moment of maximum peril and grief.” [16:30]

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Epstein Files, Clintons, and Accountability

[24:20 – 31:15]

• New revelations and fallout:

  • Corporate leaders forced out over Epstein links.
  • Documents show alleged coaching of Bill Gates.
  • Bannon’s connections under scrutiny.

• Hillary Clinton’s BBC Interview: Defends the Clintons' limited connection [26:16].

  "We have no links. We have a very clear record that we've been willing to talk about, which my husband has said he took some rides on the airplane for his charitable work." — Hillary Clinton, [26:18]

• Hosts dissect the Clintons’ denials, Clinton Global Initiative ties, and point out the exclusion of Bill Clinton from recent Democratic Party tributes [27:25].

  "I've been studying Hillary Clinton as a journalist since 1991. She didn't seem totally at ease there and she seemed to be spinning, downplaying the relationship with Maxwell..." — Host, [29:57]

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AOC’s Munich Debacle — Press, Perception, and Political Risk

[31:12 – 34:58]

• AOC calls NYT to complain about coverage of her gaffe-ridden appearance at the Munich Security Conference.
  • Mark: “If you go to an international security conference...and you think the press is going to cover your substantive and very interesting message about the threat of authoritarianism...You are so naive that you shouldn't even be a member of the House.” [31:32]
  • Kevin: “If you're explaining, you're losing. And that was not the format to rehab what happened in Munich.” [32:33]
• Potential long-term impact on her Senate or presidential ambitions.
• Larry: “Ham-handed narcissism here by calling the New York Times and trying to do damage control…now we’re talking about it on Tuesday.” [33:15]
• Hosts joke about comparisons to Rick Perry’s famous “oops” gaffe [33:51]. AOC’s standing on Halperin’s “8 for 28” presidential power list debated.

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Potomac Sewage Spill: Trump vs. Gov. Wes Moore

[34:58 – 37:58]

• Massive environmental disaster turns political:

  • Trump and Maryland Governor Moore trade blame.
  • Both hosts agree Moore’s slow public response is a political mistake, despite his otherwise savvy media presence.

  "People like action, right? And not this deliberation back and forth, and not sweeping it under the rug. So I think this is a political mistake for him." — Kevin, [37:14]

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Government Shutdown & Congressional Gridlock

[38:08 – 38:33]

• All agree no end in sight until at least a week after the State of the Union.

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Rhode Island Mass Shooting and Trans Identity

[38:33 – 42:29]

• Minimal legacy media coverage of alleged trans identity of the shooter; hosts debate the appropriateness and necessity of reporting such details, media's reluctance, and mental health complexities.
• Larry: "To suggest that if you’re a transgender, you have a mental illness...is absolutely forbidden. You are a bigot if you bring that up..." [41:25]
• Kevin: Urges for honest, public, non-bigoted conversation and more Congressional hearings on trans issues.

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Special Segment: Live Listener Q&A and Ukraine Reporting

[45:51 – 56:15, select]

• Andre reports fresh from Ukraine—9 days on the ground:
  • Varying public opinion about war and land-for-peace deals.
  • Skepticism about holding secure, fair elections unless a ceasefire is established.
  • Ukrainian drone warfare innovation is “the real cutting edge” [52:36].
• Discussion of Russian attrition, conscription, and what Ukraine needs from NATO.

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Notable Quotes

• On Jesse Jackson:
  "He was the major civil rights leader in this country between, and I said major black leader with an emphasis on civil rights between Dr. King and Barack Obama." — Host [03:32]

• On AOC in Munich:
  "You can't change what she did and how she behaved and how she came across and how bad she was. And so that's still relevant, regardless of what her intentions of her appearance was." — Larry [33:15]

• On Ukraine Negotiations:
  "If those wagers have any idea what's going on in the world, there's going to be no deal because there's not going to be a deal without the ceding of territory to Russia." — Host [18:19]

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Flow & Tone

• Conversational, sharp, at times sarcastic.
• In-depth but fast-paced, toggling between analysis and pointed one-liners.
• Mix of headline triage with distinctive, frank commentary and listener engagement.

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Additional Highlights & Resources

• Eric Trump’s drone investment and Italian PM Meloni’s role in NATO–U.S. relations mentioned in Q&A [56:30–58:19].
• Programming notes: New “8 for 28” episode, SiriusXM second hour debut, aftershow with Professor Kenny [56:30–62:57].

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Summary Table of Key Segments

| Segment | Topic | Timestamp | |-------------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------------|-------------| | Jesse Jackson Legacy | Civil rights, political influence, Democratic Party reforms | 03:32–13:06 | | Geneva Negotiations | Iran, Ukraine-Russia talks, military strike speculation | 14:43–24:20 | | Savannah Guthrie Case | Family cleared, media responsibility | 15:56–16:49 | | Epstein & Clintons | Files fallout, political figures’ links, Hillary's BBC defense | 24:20–31:15 | | AOC in Munich | Gaffes, press relations, 2028 presidential prospects | 31:12–34:58 | | Potomac Sewage Spill | Political blame game, environmental crisis | 34:58–37:58 | | Government Shutdown | Stalemate, predictions | 38:08–38:33 | | Rhode Island Shooting | Media's coverage, trans identity, mental health debate | 38:33–42:29 | | Ukraine Field Report | On-the-ground update from Andre, drone warfare innovation | 45:51–56:15 |

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For listeners seeking depth, fresh reporting, and a balanced dose of skepticism and skepticism about both media and politicians, this episode offers a robust survey of the day’s most significant political stories.

Transcript

[Mark]

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[Host]

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[Mark]

This is it. The world as you know it is over.

[Host]

Completely done.

[Mark]

It's not about to be over. It's over.

[Host]

Some of the scientists who helped build AI are now sounding the alarm. I was selling AI as a great.

[Mark]

Thing for decades and I was wrong. I was wrong.

[Host]

There's a longer term existential threat that.

[Kevin]

Will arise when we create digital beings.

[Host]

That are more intelligent than ourselves.

[Kevin]

We have no idea whether we can stay in control.

[Host]

While others say that AI will usher in unfathomable abundance, I've always believed that it's going to be the most important invention that humanity will ever make.

[Mark]

This really will be a world of abundance.

[Host]

And among these fears and these fantasies.

[Andre]

We seek the story of our future.

[Host]

Listen to the last invention on Apple, Spotify, Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Kevin]

Foreign.

[Host]

Welcome in everybody.

[Mark]

Thank you.

[Host]

This is the morning meeting. Thank you for being here. Big day for this program and for two way, we'll have second hour on Sirius xm. More on that in a bit. But right after the show, 10am Eastern Time on SiriusXM channel 111. Megyn Kelly Channel will have in the second hour of the two way program. Kevin is here. Larry is here. Lots of news to cover, including these back to back negotiations in Geneva. Again, I say Mr. Witkoff and Jared Kushner doing something no one's ever done. They're meeting with the Iranians over breakfast and then the Ukrainians and the Russians over afternoon tea to try to settle two massive conflicts. We'll talk about that. Talk about Epstein and the Clintons and talk about AOC and her damage control. And the latest on Savannah Guthrie and the way coverage of shootings occur when the shooter, the alleged shooter is allegedly trans. I just, Larry is going to have so much to say about this and we haven't left in the locker room, so I don't know exactly what he's going to say, but I have my suspicion if you're here on the platform, you want to be in on the conversation, please raise your hand. We'd love to have you two new folks yesterday. Let's get two new ones today. Love our returning champions. But we love new folks too. So raise your hand if you want to get in the conversation. And if you're watching on x or on YouTube, you can't participate in the conversation. You're welcome to come onto the platform even today, just jump right in, go to two way TV to sign up. But. But if you're there, don't put smack in the chat. It's embarrassing to all of us. It's somewhat embarrassing to me personally, but more embarrassing to you. Just no smack in the chat. Jesse Jackson passed away. We learned that early this morning. And there's a lot you could say about him. And what's great about the obits in the New York Times, the Washington Post, they're written by legendary reporters who haven't worked in those papers for years. And I believe in at least one occasion has also passed away. Times does that on occasion. The Post too, they'll run obits by written by people who've passed away because they banked them. I will say the thing I read about Jesse Jackson that I think is the most important for you to know. There are a lot of people on this platform who are younger and who haven't followed politics for very long. And you've heard of Jesse Jackson, but you know, maybe not know his significance. He was the major civil rights leader in this country between, and I said major black leader with an emphasis on civil rights between Dr. King and Barack Obama during that entire stretch, he was the main civil rights leader in this country and an extraordinarily talented gentleman. Let's look at just you could show you a thousand things, but let's look at him from the 1984 Democratic convention. 105, please. If blacks vote in great numbers, progressive whites win. It's the only way progressive whites win.

[Andre]

If blacks vote in great numbers, Hispanics win. When blacks, Hispanics and progressive whites vote, women win.

[Host]

When women win, children win. When women and children win, workers win.

[Kevin]

We must all come up together.

[Host]

We must come up together. There's a through line from Dr. King to Barack Obama in terms of black political opportunity. There's also a through line from his message to Bernie Sanders and the progressive movement today that dominates the Democratic Party. He also was an extraordinary political leader. And I'll say more about this probably on two way tonight. Tonight. But I covered Bill Clinton starting in 1991 in that presidential campaign. And one of the extraordinarily impressive things about Bill Clinton was he wasn't afraid of anybody. There was not a leader in either party who intimidated him or worried him he and I spent a lot of time on the plane with him, so I got to hear his thoughts on lots of people. He was not worried about anybody, afraid of anybody, with one exception. Jesse Jackson scared the heck out of Bill Clinton because Jackson didn't endorse him early on. He thought he would and he couldn't get his endorsement. And there's a famous video of Bill Clinton doing some TV hits. And between hits, he's told falsely that Jackson has endorsed Tom Harkin and Bill Clinton was as mad as I've ever seen him. And that is testament to what a genius political figure Jesse Jackson was. That he could politically frighten Bill Clinton gives you an idea of how great he was. Larry before Larry weighs in, Larry loves this this famous iconic clip of the Reverend Jackson maybe showing a lighter side. His 107, please. I read from Sam, I am.

[Andre]

According.

[Host]

To the Latter Day Saint Seuss, you do not like green eggs and ham. I do not like them.

[Kevin]

Sam.

[Host]

I am. I could not, would not on a boat. I will not, will not with a goat. I will not eat them in the rain. I will not eat them on a train, not in the dark, not on a tree, not in a car. You let me be I do not like them in a box. I do not like them with a fox. I will not eat them in a house. I do not like them with a mouth. I do not like them. Here from Weekend Update. Larry, thank you for finding that. LARRY thoughts on the the legacy of Jesse Jackson, how he how he's still a relevant force in our politics.

[Mark]

I I love that moment also, because politicians need to laugh at themselves more often when they take themselves too seriously. It's just let's face it, we're kind of in a silly business when it when you come down to it, other than the fact that our lives depend on it. So I've always enjoyed that about Jesse Jackson. Let's not forget when you talk about the rift with Bill Clinton, Clinton's famous sister Soulja moment happened at a Rainbow Coalition push event. Clinton, I think, recognized that as powerful and as talented as Jesse Jackson was, there were a lot of Americans who were put off by his approach to politics and what many people thought was utilizing race as a weapon in this country and rather than trying to bring people together around race dividing us on race. And so I think that that is part of the legacy. It certainly was, you know, maximized by the likes of Al Sharpton. After Jesse Jackson sort of started to fade off the political scene. I, I always was struck by during the primaries in the 90s, when he, or I think it was 88, when he ran for president. And in the primaries, reporters were always asking him, what do you want? So, what is it you're looking for here? What do you want? As if he was running for leverage. Mark. And he would always laugh and say, I want to be the nominee of the Democrat Party. So it was even then, journalists were sort of, okay, well, we know you could never be the nominee, which is really insulting to him. And I will also always remember in 1993, at one of his events in Chicago, he said that crime in inner cities in the black community was the civil rights challenge of the time. And you'll remember he famously said how tragic it was that if he's walking down a street in Chicago, he is relieved to see that the person following him is white. That was at a time when we could have, well, the national conversation about violence and violent crime in the black community. If one were to raise that issue today, one would be called racist.

[Host]

Yeah, Kevin, I'll set you up by showing you a few things. Here's President Trump on Truth Social acknowledging the passing of Reverend Jackson. I haven't seen this yet, so I'll be surprised with everybody else. What the president said. Do we. We have it? I think we do, yeah. Reverend Jackson is dead at 84. I knew him well long before becoming president. He was a good man with lots of personality, grit, and street smarts. He was very gregarious, someone who truly loved people. Very positive goes on. There's some things in there that would. Wouldn't surprise you. Not necessarily.

[Kevin]

Yeah, we can stop there. The third sentence. That's a nice tribute.

[Host]

Here's, here's, here's some Fox News did a good job of pulling photos of Jackson with every recent president, pretty much every recent president back to Reagan. And you'll just see these. Here he is with Jimmy Carter while these show. And again, I apologize to those of you listening the podcast version. Just trust me. You see him with all the living presidents over the years. Kamala Harris just put on X. As a young law student, I would drive back and forth from Oakland, where I lived, to San Francisco or where I went to school. I had a bumper sticker in the back window of my car that read, jesse Jackson for president. He finished second in delegates. And as to Larry's point, he finished second in delegates in 88. Never ran again. But in 84 and 88 made very serious challenges for the Democratic nomination and his probably most enduring legacy. Some of you will Know this, most of you won't. He forced the rules change on Walter Mondale to say you couldn't. No more winner take all. The reason the Democrats don't have winner take alls in their primaries and caucuses is because Jackson recognized that that made it impossible for a black candidate to win. And the only reason Barack Obama was able to win. Hillary Clinton won the big states and those would have made her the nominee. But Obama did well enough because of Jackson's rule changes to pick up delegates in places like Ohio and Texas and be able to become the nominee. So that's his legacy. Finally, I'll just say no secret tension between Barack Obama and Jesse Jackson. At least the Obama political operation did not want Jackson front and center in 2008 for symbolic reasons. And the families are very close. Jackson's daughter is very close to the Obamas.

[Kevin]

But.

[Host]

But he did not get his due in the Obama administration. Many people would say, including me, and finally I'll say, and then to Kevin, for those of you who are putting in the chat, and I don't read it, but I glance at it, right, he divided America by race. Your hero, Donald Trump has done plenty of that too. So if you want to subtract points for dividing by race, you'll have to subtract points on both sides. Kevin.

[Kevin]

Well, I'll just pick up Mark where you left off. His raw political talent and organizing talent obviously coming up second in 1988, coming up third in 1984 and building on that and not, you know, going away and saying, all right, I lost this nomination, I'm done. But the raw organizing talent behind Jesse Jackson lives on. Obviously he started as a kid. He's part of the Greenville Eight here in South Carolina. We've got some two way members from Greenville that often join us on air. So the commitment to civil rights started as a young man and only flourished throughout. So to see the level of bipartisan all. The governor of South Carolina, Lindsey Graham has put out a really powerful statement already. As someone who was a leading Democrat and often, you know, to Larry's point, turn some folks off on the Republican side to see this. You know, this unison in praise to the Reverend Jesse Jackson is, is something really nice and something to behold.

[Host]

I've met most of the leading political figures of the last 40 years in American politics and no one was larger than life in person than Reverend Jackson.

[Kevin]

Just an incredible, and I will say too, Mark, you know, I last, I last saw him in Chicago at the convention, you know, two years ago. Obviously he'd been in a wheelchair for a long time, but whenever he entered a room with the team around him, all the eyes would be on him. Even though he was diminished in stature, he still, you know, commanded that presence. Commanded the room pretty clearly.

[Host]

Absolutely. I'll just say in closing and then quick. Sponsor. A word from a sponsor and then we'll go into a daybook. Keep hope alive. All right, word from a sponsor. Now, Factor Meals, what do you like? You like money? You like saving time. You like healthy meals? You like help with portion control? If you've got a brain, Factor Meals can do all that. 50% off your first box and free breakfast for a year. This is a delivery service. Subscription service. Delivers fresh, high quality meals to your house. Healthy meals created by dietitians. It saves you time. No shopping, no planning, no cooking, no cleanup. Very simple. Just order from factor and factor meals.com two way 50 off. Get 50% off your first box plus free breakfast for a year. You'll eat better. You'll save time, you'll save money. No more scrambling around to figure out what to cook, how to get the ingredients, or ordering inexpensive and unhealthy meals. You can specify what you want in terms of high protein, calorie, smart, GLP1 support. All the options are there and it's always fresh, never frozen. I've been using them now for a couple weeks and it'll change your life. It'll make everything easier and cheaper and save you time. Go to factor meals.com 2way50OFF. Use the promo code 2way50OFF to get your first box, 50% off and free breakfast for a year. Thank you for your attention to that matter. All right, the daybook, everybody. The president's got three closed press events on his schedule today. He's. Let's see, the first one. Two o'. Clock. He's credentialing some ambassadors. Four o', clock, an unspecified policy meeting and another policy meeting at 5 o'.

[Mark]

Clock.

[Host]

Let's hope the 4 o' clock meeting doesn't run over. So nothing open at this time, but that could change, of course. And he's. He's talked up a storm on Air Force One. We could do the whole show today, just showing you what he said with the press on Air Force One. But we won't. Don't know what the vice president's doing. I bet he said at least one of those presidential meetings today. Rubio. Secretary Rubio is with Orban in Budapest today. Congress and senators still out and still no discernible progress on the ice issue. Although the Democrats issued their counteroffer to the Republican counteroffer to the Democrats initial offer of what they want to do about ICE mentioned before. I think I did, maybe I didn't. Witcoff and Kushner doubleheader, I believe. Unprecedented double header in Geneva today at the Oman ambassador's residence. At this hour. Maybe it's over. We don't know. Meeting.

[Kevin]

It wrapped about an hour ago. Mark.

[Host]

Thank you, sir. So they met with the Iranian foreign minister this morning or at least indirectly met with him. And then later today they head over to a hotel where they meet along with Army Secretary Dan Driscoll with the Ukrainian and Russian delegations. Texas. Early voting begins in Texas today.

[Kevin]

All right.

[Host]

I don't think there's anything new to say about Savannah's mom after yesterday's announcement that. That the sheriff is. Is declaring no member of the family, including Savannah's brother in law who'd been named in many media and amateur sleuth suspicions that none of them are suspects in the case. And it continues to be covered on lots of outlets like it's a big breaking story every day when really not much is happening. Either of you have anything you want to say about either the clearing of the family or anything else, or we move on.

[Mark]

Just, I think, just.

[Kevin]

Yeah, I think it's good that the family was clear because again, you had all those Internet sleuths out there really kind of hurting the family at this moment of maximum peril and grief.

[Mark]

I mean, there's a basis for it though, because of the odds. The percentage of. It's usually someone is somebody on this side. But certainly allegations shouldn't be made without any evidence to say support it.

[Host]

Yeah, okay. Russia, Ukraine, New York Times and others framing today's meeting very downcast. The Russian official who's going, you know, the previous round of meetings had. Was described as low level military officials. And some people are saying, well, that's not good for these meetings. It shows the Russians aren't taking it seriously. In fact, today's coverage says that was actually good from the Ukrainian and American point of view because those folks were actually engaging on the substance. The guy who's there today apparently just as like a Soviet era apparatchik who comes in and gives speeches about how Russia is so Mother Russia is so mistreated. So the framing of today's meeting is very downbeat. The president last night was. Was as he's done episodically throughout these talks, war almost four years old said the pressure's on the Ukrainians the Ukrainians have to come to the table. People now noticing that Senate Secretary Rubio didn't mention Putin in his speech the other day and of course went on to meet with the two most Russian friendly countries in Europe. And Zelensky continues to be on X kind of being carping Zelensky, Zelensky complaining about how everything's going and saying don't make a deal with Putin. So it appears that unless Zelensky is willing to make a big giveaway here that forget whether Putin will make a deal, it doesn't appear that people think Zelensky is going to make a deal. Here's a polymarket from our partners at Polymarket. They've got a market up now. 109. Will Ukraine agree to cede territory to Russia before the end of this year? Will they agree to cede territory? Only 28% of polymarket wagers say that they'll seed and of course, if those wagers have any idea what's going on in the world, there's going to be no deal because there's not going to be a deal without the ceding of territory to Russia. So Kevin, I know, I know your general view on this, but as we head into today's session, if you were looking for signs of optimism, what would they be really?

[Kevin]

No signs of optimism, honestly. And Mark, you rightly point out that the lead Kremlin negotiator not, not just as a Soviet throwback, but questions the even legitimacy of the country of Ukraine. And this is at the point where Russia is at its weakest point in this multi year war. Oil exports are down. The that Ukraine has made great territorial gains in the last couple of days and weeks. So you know, if I'm, if I'm Donald Trump, I say, you know, you could do good cop, bad cop. Zelensky's got to do something. I go back to the Senate as we talked about Yesterday, with those 84 senators that are signed on to Lindsey Grahamsville and let's put the screws to Putin here at his weakest point in this conflict to actually see some, some movement because concessions aren't going to bring Putin to the table, clearly.

[Mark]

Larry yeah, Kevin's right. In fact, he stole what I was going to say, which is the only thing that's going to sort of force Russia's hand at this point, it appears is the fact that the global oil prices are going to start making it very, very expensive for them to continue there. The, the oil market during the Biden years is what fueled this entire Military operation. And that's becoming harder and harder for them. So that's where the pressure is coming from. I think, think right now I'm also struck by what you're struck by, Mark, in terms of the fact that they're going to be bouncing between discussions in Farsi and discussions in Slavic here in the same day. In the. Is it even in the same.

[Kevin]

I mean, have you seen anything like this before?

[Host]

Different. No, it's never happened. Different feelings.

[Kevin]

It's a five minute, it's like a five minute drive between the Omani and the, and the hotel market you mentioned. That's crazy to me.

[Host]

It's crazy.

[Mark]

I was thinking the only closest is maybe Nixon, Kissinger dealing with opening up China and at the same time trying to resolve Vietnam and Cambodia and sort of still waging the Cold War. But not on the same day, not.

[Host]

On the same town. If these guys, if Witkoff and Kushner pull it off, it's an incredible feat. Iran, another area where you look at the framing of today's meeting. Not a lot of optimism. The Iranians are engaged in, engaged in some war games yesterday at sea. The US continues to beef up its military presence there. The, the Ford is due in a couple days. I read this morning in the region, the Iranian Ayatollah, who has an active X account, here's what he posted today. If you think this is bluffing, feel free, but pretty bellicose tweet from him. The US President keeps saying that they have the strongest military force in the world. The strongest military force in the world may at times be struck so hard that it cannot get up again. The president last night on Air Force One was very bellicose also, or bellicose, but firm in, in saying that the Iranians, you know, better, better do this or there'll be. There'll be consequences. Here is where the folks at Polymarket have Will the Iranian regime fall before the end of 2027 or before 2027? So will the Iranian regime fall this year? 35% chance say yes. That's pretty high as far as I'm concerned. And you see, it's been a little bit higher. But 35% say yes right now. And one more thing I was going to say about it. Oh, the Washington Post has an interesting story that says despite the fact that we're not reading about protests in the streets anymore, that the fervency based on the economy in particular being weak is still there and suggests that perhaps a US action could do things. So, guys, I was thinking about this morning, there could be a deal. There could be a small American, Israeli or just American strike to see if that would get the Iranians to the table. Or there could be a massive action that involves kinetic assassinations, sabotage, cyber. And here's where I am right now. I'm about 20, 20% deal, 70% massive, 10% pinprick. That's where I am. Larry, where are you?

[Mark]

I'm leaning toward massive. And again, everybody thinks more than.

[Host]

More than my 70%.

[Mark]

Yeah, I do. I think the die is cast, frankly. And I think that these discussions are really just window dressing so that they can say to the world community, the international community, we did our best, we tried, wasn't going to happen. Iran has never been more isolated than they are right now. And again, ditto the oil issue. The price of oil is also making it that much harder and having that much more pressure on the regime to be able to continue their operations. So I think that it's already sort of happening at this point.

[Host]

Kevin, if you're a student of Trump and how he goes in the run up to military action, this is textbook. Move the assets in place. Tell the other side if you want to, if you want to avoid a big US Strike, you're going to have to do what we want to do, you know, being cagey about what the timetable is. So it just seems like this is. We've seen this movie before and there is about to be a major strike unless the Iranians just cave.

[Kevin]

We've seen this movie before and we saw it just months ago with Maduro. And the Iranians are learning all the wrong lessons from that where, where you just played that tweet from the ayatollah, you know, taunting the president, you know, it's almost like he's dancing, you know, to, to, you know, to Trump, which actually goaded the president, I think, partly into doing that. And president watches this stuff, doesn't like the optics of it. And I think I'm with Larry, I'm leaning. And you, Mark, you know, majority percentage behind taking out this regime. There's reporting, too, that Iranians are now, you know, everyday Iranians are understanding the extent to which the protesters were killed and the numbers in which they were killed. So I would not be surprised to see more protests spring up because of that. It's been a little quiet on the streets, but again, I think with the Ford there within striking distance in the next couple of days, as you point out, Mark, we'll see some action there.

[Host]

All right, Epstein, this story is just so massive. And reporters are still digging their way through what some are still saying are a third of the documents. And there's now this growing call to release everything else, including the FBI 302 reports. And it doesn't seem like that's in the cards immediately. But you know, as we say, Halperin's fifth rule of Washington, when something's famous for not being released, it'll have to be released. So we'll see what happens with the additional documents. But just in the last day, the head of the Pritzker Company, Hyatt was forced out. The chair of the board, member of the family, the mayor of Los Angeles went on CNN and said Casey Wasserman should have to give up his Olympics job because he emailed with Maxwell before Epstein went to prison. And it's kind of incredible. And there's an incredible email today about Epstein coaching Bill Gates on how to raise money. I don't know if you guys saw that one. Kind of incredible. But people are getting the point that Epstein, you know, oh, and Bannon, Bannon is just under siege in New York Times finally wrote the story, that part of the story that's still to be written about how Steve can claim that this is all just a Michael Wolf style ruse to make a documentary and expose Epstein when it's clear the relationship was more, let's just say multidimensional than that. Now, the Clintons and the Trumps. The president was asked about what Hillary Clinton said to the BBC, which we'll show you in a moment. It's kind of incredible that Bill Clinton and Donald Trump both very tied to Jeffrey Epstein, not accusing them of illegality, not accusing them of knowing about illegality, but both of them very tied to Jeffrey Epstein. Donald Trump continues to say, I had nothing to do with Jeffrey Epstein.

[Mark]

He did.

[Host]

But Bill Clinton, he had something to do with Jeffrey Epstein. Here's Hillary Clinton in an interview at the BBC, indignant about the prospect that she and her husband have to testify. Her. I think next week, right. Next week up on the Hill, he's.

[Kevin]

On the 26th and I think he's on the 27th.

[Host]

Yeah. So next week, here's Hillary Clinton. Do you regret the links that there have been? You know, we have no links. We have a very clear record that we've been willing to talk about, which my husband has said he took some rides on the airplane for his charitable work. I don't recall ever meeting him.

[Mark]

Did you ever meet Ghislaine Maxwell?

[Host]

I did on a few occasions. And thousands of people go to the Clinton Global Initiative. So it to me is not something that is really at the heart of what this matter is about. They are accused and in both cases were convicted of horrific crimes against girls and women. That should be the focus. And we are more than happy to say what we know, which is very limited and totally unrelated to their behavior or their crimes. And we want to do it in public because let's make this transparent.

[Kevin]

There are calls for another individual.

[Host]

We can dump that here. Larry noticed this. President's Day Democratic Party Twitter account wanted to celebrate all the great Democratic presidents of last hundred years or so. So they put up this graphic on X showing your great president. So your RFK's, your, your LBJs, your FDRs, your Joe Biden's, your Barack Obama's, your Jimmy Carter's. And Kevin, do you notice anybody missing from that graphic?

[Kevin]

It looks like 42 got cut off there a little bit, but Al Gore is more, more on the screen there, unfortunately.

[Host]

Bill Clinton must have been in the director's cut.

[Mark]

And I'd be pissed for Harry Truman, by the way. He was a great president.

[Host]

Yeah, I don't know. Larry, let me ask you this simple, factual question. As a student of the Clintons, Secretary Clinton may well be right. Don't take anything for granted that Bill Clinton had nothing to do with illegality in Jeffrey Epstein. But do you think if Hillary Clinton knows who was in the swimming pool and who was giving the massage?

[Mark]

I don't think she's been read in on that, no. No, I don't. And also, by the way, my daughter got married last year. We had about 250, maybe 300 people at the wedding. I was the father of the bride. I hung out with, talked with, had drinks with everybody at that wedding when Chelsea Clinton was married, I think they had 400. Were you invited to that one, Mark? The 400? It was a pretty exclusive.

[Host]

Rather, rather not say 400 people at.

[Mark]

That wedding, including Ghislaine Maxwell. And this was after Epstein's conviction. And she was right there on the aisle, by the way. And Hillary Clinton just said, yeah, I may have met her at a Global Clinton Global Initiative thing. She was at her daughter's wedding, for God's sake.

[Host]

You know what Montgomery Burns would say? Ghislaine Maxwell doesn't ring a bell. Kevin, what's gonna happen when the Clintons testify? Is it gonna be a non event or is Bill Clinton gonna be asked who was in the hot tub, who was giving you a back rubber?

[Kevin]

I think it's going to Be non event. She goes first on the 26th and he goes on the 27th. You know, we've talked about this before too on the program. Don't, don't discount that. The, the, the rhetoric, rhetoric abilities of these two individuals to run circles around a lot of the Republicans, especially James Comer on this committee. I'll also say we had a wedding of 400 people in Charleston, South Carolina just about two years ago and there's still people at that wedding. I don't know. Mostly from Alex's side because he has.

[Host]

About 1500 cousins, not necessarily Irish.

[Kevin]

I don't think I did.

[Host]

Not all his own wedding. I'll just say I've been studying Hillary Clinton as a journalist since 1991. She didn't seem totally at ease there and she seemed to be spinning, downplaying the relationship with Maxwell, pointing to Trump politics of personal destruction. She doesn't seem inclined to engage on this on the merits because Maxwell was involved with the Clinton Global Initiative. There were many other people too, but she was involved. She did attend the wedding. So did many other people. And they flew on and her husband flew on the plane extensively so.

[Kevin]

And they resisted wanting to have this moment before the Oversight Committee for a long time.

[Mark]

Always drawn the line though. Pre conviction, post conviction. That's where the wedding thing really sort of popped. Pops up because everybody knew that Maxwell was associated with Epstein and that was post.

[Host]

But wasn't she somebody? Wasn't somebody's guest at the wedding?

[Mark]

Yes. Mark Waite, I think it is.

[Host]

Yeah. So I mean, you know, if I invite somebody to my wedding and they invited somebody else, am I Googling them? I guess if I'm a president, maybe I do. But anyway, we'll see. Pre. No, it wasn't pre.

[Mark]

Google. The wedding was 2010. Google 2010.

[Host]

The wedding was in 2010. It was Google. There was Google in 2010, wasn't there? Wasn't there?

[Mark]

Jeez. I believe.

[Host]

Okay. AOC called the new York Times last night because she didn't like the press she was getting over her appearance in Munich. And she said something on one level very rational. She said, I wasn't there as a presidential candidate. I wasn't even there as a Senate candidate. Here's the New York Times headline. After first big overseas trip, Ocasio Cortez expresses frustrations. The congressman argued in an interview that presidential speculation, which included scrutiny of her slip ups, had overshadowed her anti authoritarian message at the Munich security conference. Congresswoman, meet me at camera two. If you go to an international security conference filled with potential presidential candidates and have your team build up that you're there to be on the world stage. And you think that the press is going to cover your substantive and very interesting message about the threat of authoritarianism, taking advantage of, of income inequality over your prospects as a presidential candidate, as evinced by your debut on the world stage. You are so naive that you shouldn't even be a member of the House. That's what I would say. Sure. The difference between what is and what ought to be. Should the entire coverage of her and everyone else at Munich be about the substance of their conversations? Sure. Should it be? But my goodness, to call the New York Times and complain that people are covering you as a presidential candidate. Kevin.

[Kevin]

The old adage, if you're explaining, you're losing. And that was not the format to kind of rehab what happened in Munich. You know, you write substantive piece, you sit down with a reporter not calling up and complaining about the coverage because again, and complaining that the spotlight that you have on yourself because of this speculation is the cause for it. I think is wrong too. This was misplayed by aoc. And this is going to come back, I think, if she decides to run for the Senate against Leader Schumer or for the presidency down the road. Certainly, you know, Larry, as Larry said, you know, these ads write themselves, right? You play the 30 second soundbite of her scrambling to put together a sentence and that's, that's problematic.

[Mark]

Well, there's also a ham handed narcissism here by calling the New York Times and trying to sort of do some sort of damage control. This because it's made it. We're talking about it on Tuesday. It would have been a Monday story would have been over. We would have laughed about it. I did two segments on my radio show today because you bet, I can't get enough of this. And we played the audio all over again because of it. Because here's the thing. Whether she's there as a presidential candidate or she's there to be the lone voice in the wilderness speaking out against authoritarianism around the world, you can't change what she did and how she behaved and how she came across and how bad she was. And so that's still relevant, regardless of what her intentions of her appearance was.

[Kevin]

On 8 for somewhere Rick Perry, somewhere Rick Perry is celebrating his oops moment. It was the Department of Education that.

[Host]

I wanted to cut. Next up, later today, my new February edition of 8 for 28, the eight most likely Democratic presidential nominees. Tune in to see how AOC's performance in Munich might affect her rankings as compared to January. And I'll say this, I wish the New York Times reporter had asked her this question. Congressman, let's give you a mulligan. What is your view of the U.S. obligation to defend Taiwan? I'd love to hear her answer it again. Give her. Give her. Give her an hour to think about it. I still do not think that she has thought through a lot of these issues.

[Mark]

And. And can you take a moment to congratulate your ancestor Cortez for bringing horses to America?

[Host]

That also. All right, what was it?

[Kevin]

What, Mark? What was her number going into this on your list of eight?

[Host]

Oh, man, you asked me to, remember? Just a preview race. Michael's gonna tell me. I think I had her at fifth. I think five or six. I think I had her at five.

[Mark]

Fundraising is going to keep her in the conversation.

[Host]

We'll see. And then somebody's got to fill that progressive lane. I think I had heard five, but it was fifth.

[Mark]

It was.

[Host]

Thank you. Okay, we'll see where she is after. After Munich. She'll always have Munich. This spill, this. This cesspool unleashed into. Into Potomac rivers. In the Potomac.

[Mark]

It's in the Potomac. Into the Chesapeake, baby.

[Host]

Yeah. Yeah. This is a massive spill based on the rupture of a sewage pipeline. It's about two miles from where I grew up, by the way. The Clara Barton Parkway was my go to route. Anyway, there's finger pointing between Wes Moore, whose state this occurred in, and the president back and forth. The president's criticized him on social media. Yesterday on Air Force One, Wes Moore is criticizing him back. But this is a massive environmental story as well. Here's the headline from Axios. Trump and Moore trade barbs over Potomac River Sewage spill blame. There's so many ways we could go here, but we're a little bit short of time, Larry. Who will win this fight politically, the president or Westmore?

[Mark]

Well, I mean, Westmore does have the media on his, and he has. Listen, Westmore is not responsible for the spill and the fixing the pipe, but he is responsible for the cleanup. And the fact is, this is the first thing Westmore has said about this for four weeks. He has said nothing about it. Neither has Spanberger in Virginia or the senators of those two states. Instead, this is a political response to Donald Trump rather than acting as a governor. But ultimately, the media hasn't really been talking about this story either. They're going to reflexively want to be on Westmore side unless Trump, through federal action can work wonders and handle this cleanup in a miraculous way. Allah. Ron DeSantis Post Hurricane Kevin Are they.

[Host]

Going to, are they going to make peace and solve this together, or is that naive?

[Kevin]

I doubt that, but I am surprised. The lack of national attention on this and local attention on this and the fact that, you know, in the wake of the bridge collapse outside Baltimore, you know, Westmore was on the scene right away. I think this is a mistake that, you know, now we're just going back and forth on the political element of it. When he could, you know, you saw Josh SHAPIRO when, when 95 collapsed right there, you know, with a bomber jacket, you know, assessing the scene. You know, people like action, right? And not this deliberation back and forth and not sweeping it under the rug. So I think this is a political mistake for him.

[Mark]

You mentioned the bridge collapse. He was there. As soon as the cameras were there, he was there. And he's very good at doing that. But that bridge, nothing has been done. It took forever to clean up the broken bridge and nothing has been done in sort of restoring that bridge. So this is kind of a soft spot for Westmore in terms of his governance and his ability to get things done. And it doesn't help that as this was all coming down, he was doing a high profile national town hall with Norah o' Donnell saying that he doesn't want national attention.

[Kevin]

Well, this is why, you know, and Larry, this is why the governor's struggling internally, right, with his own caucus. Right. Can't even get that, that 8th congressional district, potentially through the state Senate. So I think he remains much more popular right now outside the state than within the state of Maryland.

[Host]

All right, two more quick topics. We'll do them quick and then to your question. So again, please raise your hand if you want to get in on the conversation. Government shutdown. Either of you see any, any signs that that's going to end?

[Kevin]

Any new developments that Democrats responded? You know, we'll see. There's no, they're still operating on that 48, 72 hour rule. If anything breaks, they can, you know, for a potential vote.

[Host]

But okay, just throw, throw down. When will it, when will there be a deal, Larry? Give me a date.

[Mark]

After the week after the State of the Union.

[Host]

Kevin.

[Kevin]

A week after the State of the Union. I like that. I think that makes a lot of sense. We'll see how the president covers it in the speech.

[Host]

Yeah, I'll pile on that one. Lastly, Rhode island shooting is a horrible tragedy. Scared a bunch of kids at a skating rink. In. In Rhode island and allegedly the New York Post and others, a few others reporting that the shooter is trans. And this is. I don't know how many shootings of late have involved trans people. This is not about being bigoted against trans people. It's not about saying all shootings are committed by trans people. But. But it seems like a relevant fact in. In the way it would be reported, among some other categorizations. And. And the pattern seems relevant. It seems like something our society should be discussing, not with bigotry, but just to try to understand why. Why. Why are we having mass shootings by trans people? Just. It seems like a basic thing.

[Mark]

And.

[Host]

And yet I read purposely, I read about 20 stories in the. In the Rhode island media, New York Times, Washington Post. They all said, we don't know anything about the shooter. Some said the shooter had two different names. Yeah, that was.

[Mark]

The New York Times went by two names, but both.

[Host]

Both. Both were male names. It's a little confusing. But Larry wasn't.

[Mark]

Wasn't one of them. Morgana, I think that's a long time.

[Host]

I don't think. Well, I may have misread it. I thought they were both male names, but Larry, what's. What's the deal here is why wouldn't. Why wouldn't this be something discussed in all the media?

[Mark]

Yeah, there's two things at play here. One of them has to do with. And I think that it's. It's a genuinely appropriate concern that gay rights groups for decades, most specifically glaad, which is a great group. I knew people who ran Glad in Los Angeles years ago, who went through a lot of work and a lot of effort to change the way gay people were depicted in the media, in the news media, but also in pop culture, and they did a great job of it. I think there was a lot of stereotypes, a lot of negative stereotypes and horrible things that were done in terms of how gay people were depicted over the years. There is a concern about depicting people within the LGBTQ community with broad stereotypes. So I think that that's still a lesson learned within the news media, but. But that shouldn't get in the way of the facts involved. The secondary thing, which I think is really overriding all of those efforts is the fact that to tell this story, you have to draw a line between the. The growing transgender or the exploding transgender movement over the last decade that we have all experienced and seen. It somehow comes out of nowhere. Connect that with mental illness and maybe even pharmaceuticals that have been associated with the transgender and transitions. And, and to suggest that if you're a transgender, you have a mental illness or that there are mental illness concerns that should be looked at is absolutely forbidden. You are a bigot if you bring that up, or at least in many, many circles you are. That's my opinion.

[Host]

Kevin. Thank you. Kevin.

[Kevin]

Yeah, I agree certainly with Larry on the, on the GLAAD front. I'm glad you said that, Larry. I think there was a few years ago Congress had a committee hearing. One it was run by the Republicans, but they had folks on kind of both sides of this issue where they talked about the, the science mentality, some of the drugs involved. They had people both pro transgender folks that had transitioned that regretted that. And it was an open, honest conversation. And I think we need more of that. I commended the Republicans at the time for having that hearing, taking the bigotry out of it, but actually getting to some level of understanding of what this community is all about, the science behind it. And I think we need more of that in terms of this kind of coverage. And I would, I would suggest that we have more of those hearings that are in the public spotlight that don't just get lost in the trans athlete debate and things like that. But let's actually have a reckoning kind of conversation as a, as a community of people about these folks.

[Host]

Prediction tonight, most shootings given unfortunately, the nature of way shootings are covered. I doubt this will get much more national coverage if it weren't for this. Do you think the fact that this is part of a pattern will be reported in the legacy media today, tomorrow, or just. They'll move on, Larry.

[Mark]

They'll move on. They'll refer to it as a domestic dispute.

[Host]

Yeah, Kevin.

[Kevin]

Most likely move on. But obviously more conservative media outlets will certainly talk about this as they've done with the shooting Minnesota and Tennessee.

[Host]

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[Mark]

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[Host]

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[Mark]

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[Host]

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[Mark]

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[Host]

Visit lifelock.com podcast for the threats you can't control. Terms apply. All right, time to go to your questions, your comments, your display of your cozy earth products, whatever you'd like to do. Puppy dog, your factor meals start with Joshua. Joshua, Unmute. Tell folks who don't know where you are what's on your mind. For Kevin and for Larry. And thank you for being part of your cheetah picture.

[Mark]

Look at that cheetah. Impressive.

[Kevin]

Eat a cheetah. Picture straight from my. Straight from my safari at the Tampa Busch Gardens.

[Host]

Okay. It's nice. What's in your mind, sir? Man, can I, can I relinquish my time to the.

[Kevin]

To the gentleman from Ukraine?

[Host]

Well, we'll bring Andres in with you. You stay right here.

[Andre]

Okay.

[Mark]

All right.

[Host]

Here, Andre, welcome in. Big day for you, obviously. And are you back? You're back home.

[Kevin]

Looks like you're back from Ukraine.

[Andre]

36 hour period of traveling because you can't take a flight there anymore. So.

[Host]

Yes. Do. Did you, did you. Did you bring us any mutton?

[Andre]

I didn't bring you any mutton. I brought back a bad sinus infection, but other than that.

[Host]

How long were you on the ground in Ukraine?

[Andre]

Nine days total. Four days in Kyiv, bookended by the big attacks on February 7th, 8th, and then on my way out, February 14th, 15th, another round of major attacks.

[Host]

Did you feel your life was threatened?

[Andre]

I felt happy. That's all that matters.

[Host]

Okay. What did you learn on the trip that you didn't know before you went?

[Andre]

I got a. Got entrance to the office of the President. Some of the people who are in Geneva today. On behalf of Ukraine talking, my sense is that today we're probably, I think the best case for the United States and Ukraine is to say that progress is being made. And if Russia starts yapping, which is, I mean, the US clearly did not want Modinsky there. They're like, do not send this guy again. And Russia just sent this idiot over here again. This is a guy who just filibusters and talks about history and pisses off the Americans to no end. So I don't know why, why Russia keeps doing this stuff to hit them, you know, knock their legs out. But I think best case scenario for the US is and Ukraine is if they say we're continuing progress and seeing what happens. Meanwhile on the front line, in terms of somebody mentioned that Ukraine regained territory or something, I don't remember the conversation. But Russia has lost their salience that went in once Starlink got cut off. So it's actually been a pretty horrible week because they just left three or four people in different villages and that ended up being just decimated by drone warfare.

[Kevin]

Pretty horrible week for the Russians, Andre, right?

[Andre]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Host]

Andre, I've been reading that people are saying public opinion has shifted. People in Ukraine are more willing to make the trade for land. Is that is you have a sense of that or people.

[Andre]

One of the topics of my conversation is how varied it is. Like you could, you could do reductionism and Say, listen, are you a cynic or an optimist? And it, it's really varied. You know, I can, I can talk. I did talk to like rabid, like Ukrainian patriots in the west who were like, yeah, it's time for a deal. And then I also spoke to like Russian speaking people from the east whose homes have been bombed out. They said, I'm going to kill every last one of them. So it's, you can't really determine what pay level or anything the opinions are coming from. But you know, there's still a very strong rally around the flag, especially the more bombing on civilian locations. Happens every week.

[Host]

Yeah, one more for me and then I'll open it up to Joshua, Kevin and Larry. There was talk from Zelensky, President Zelensky, of an election for the government and also a referendum on a deal. Does that seem like a tangible thing that it looks like it may well happen if there is a deal?

[Andre]

Mostly it's conversations from the Ukrainian side explaining to the United States, you want an election. Our laws state that you need X amount of dates before an election. Just like the United States, like you need, you know, they don't have primaries but they have like registration time, etc. Etc. So when the United States is bringing this up at meetings and strongly hinting that they want to see a change of leadership, Ukraine is like, okay, but this is going to be the timeline. So you know, this is what you can get. But Ukraine is also bringing up elections because they really want the Senate to vote on something. So for them it's more about, yeah, we were going to have our parliament vote or a national referendum on this agreement so long as the U.S. senate also votes on it. Because the one thing they do not want is a peace agreement or a security guarantee without the Senate voting on it. They do not want a Budapest memorandum too where they gave up all their nukes.

[Mark]

Larry, I was going to ask a similar question, but I'll just spin off of that. If there is a vote or national referendum, is there confidence in the infrastructure of the components for a democracy at this point that that vote will be fair? Because you know, no matter what happens, there will be people claiming that it was, it was a rigged vote.

[Andre]

No, I mean I'm going to be on the ground. I've been on the ground since 2010 doing electro monitoring. The issue is the ceasefire. Can we have an active cease fire? And that's the main issue because we had this, you know, when the war began in 2014, the first elections for parliament in 2016, I believe there were places near the, near the frozen zone with Russia which were under active fire, and that's a big issue. And the other thing that, you know, we really have to deal with is the amount of people, the millions of people who are outside and what. And Ukraine is not stating publicly. They have not changed the law, but for Ukraine, as opposed to other nationalities. I don't know if you guys know how other countries vote, but, you know, French nationals can vote at a French school. You know, they make it very open. Ukraine's law states that you can only do it at a diplomatic post. So in Warsaw, there's only. In Poland, there's only one. And we have over three and a half million Ukrainians there now.

[Mark]

It's going to be a long line.

[Andre]

Yeah, it's a long line. If you're in the United States, we have three consulates and one embassy. If, you know, if you're in Oregon, driving down to San Francisco, you forget your passport, you're effed. So, I mean, this is an issue.

[Kevin]

Kevin, Andre, thanks for the great reporting on the ground. I wonder if any conversations around the real incredible buildup of Ukrainian defense contracts and companies. The fact that, you know, Ukraine is now or will soon be able to produce its own missiles and things like that, I think is, is pretty extraordinary given just the rapid ascension of these, of these companies building these ammunitions and munitions on the ground.

[Andre]

I think the important thing is to realize how many contracts have been signed with European manufacturers, especially the one in Germany and others. Ukraine wants to be able to actually start. They want to put into law, and President Zelensky put out a memorandum to put into law this year that they can start exporting drone manufacturing, which is crazy, while you're in a time of war. But I think it just depends on what the state of the actual conflict is and if it's possible to do that. They would like to start doing that. I'll end with, there was a NATO exercise in the Baltics last week. I don't know if you guys read about it, but within 17 hours, a mock group of Ukrainian soldiers took out over 20% of NATO mechanized vehicles. In the mock warfare, just, just with their drones, kills. This is what Europe needs. This is what the United States needs. But that's the real cutting edge of Ukraine right now.

[Host]

Joshua, does the new tactics that are.

[Kevin]

Developing around drone warfare, which are really.

[Host]

Completely, you know, sort of guerrilla tactics.

[Kevin]

But, but completely upending traditional 21st century.

[Host]

You know, battle strategies. Does, does this make it easier? Because these assets. Because These tactical assets are a lot cheaper to produce. Does it make it easier for allies to step in and would be allies to step up and sort of get more bang for their buck in supporting Ukraine.

[Andre]

Two things about supporting Ukraine. One, Ukraine is going to have to figure this out because nobody else is under active threat. But we have no, we have no weapons to combat cheap drones. So Russia is making up to, they want to get up to a thousand a day and fire them on Ukraine. And there is currently nothing cheap to be able to shoot that down. You know, you can go with, you know, some kind of whiz operation or something that you have on American bases in Afghanistan or something, but to have that across the entire country is insane. So that's number one thing. To protect Ukrainians, you're going to, we're going to have to, somebody's going to have to figure out a way of more cost effectively killing these things that are attacking civilian positions. As far as drone manufacturing, I think they're already, you know, looking at the possibilities of going forward with that. And you're right, you know, this, what Kevin was talking about, the fact that it's been a bad week for Russia. Once Starlink got shut off for the Russian forward deployment, that's what they were really relying on. Ukraine just went haywire and just launched drone after drone after drone after these like three or four men detachments occupying individual villages to the extent where the Russian defense minister had to clarify which towns were under control because now they literally don't have anybody there.

[Kevin]

I've heard some, I've heard that, that.

[Host]

Russia and I don't know, I don't know how to verify this, but I've heard that Russia has lost so many soldiers that they're conscripting from prisons, they're.

[Kevin]

Sending wounded back, you know, to the front lines.

[Host]

I know everybody tends to think that, that Russia is just going to win this, you know, based on attrition alone.

[Kevin]

But with that sort of conscription pattern.

[Host]

It doesn't seem like a winning strategy to me. If sort of speculate, Andre, what does Ukraine need from NATO? What is NATO willing to give Ukraine.

[Kevin]

To push, to push them back to.

[Host]

The, to the borders of, you know.

[Kevin]

The before invasion, pre invasion borders of Russia. And what do you think Russia would.

[Host]

Do if they saw Ukrainians pushing them back?

[Andre]

I think at the top you're going to have to take out Russia in some way and weaken them. We have not seen maximum pressure from Donald Trump. He was more willing to put tariffs against the Swiss when they insulted him or something. Right. So we need to be able to have the president do more stuff at the top or give Ukraine the ability to knock out those factories that are manufacturing those drones. So less about, you know, the incremental warfare on the ground. We know what's happening there and that'll take years for Russia to, you know, actually claim the territory, territory that it wants. But we need to cut down Russia at its knees. And it's been a little bit with the oil, but it's not enough right now. And we really need to bring Russia is not serious at the table. Whatever Donald Trump has done up until this point has not made Russia serious at the table.

[Host]

Thank you both. Very grateful to you. Really appreciate. Professor Kenny, come on in couple, couple minutes of what's on your mind, sir, and tell everybody about the after show, please.

[Mark]

You're muted, Professor.

[Kevin]

There we go.

[Host]

They unmuted me.

[Kevin]

Good morning everyone. The post show will be starting at 11am after Mark moves to Series XM. The second half of the two way morning meeting goes to SiriusXM from 10 to 11. So we will start the post show at 11am just letting everybody know, same format, everything goes. So my question is, I just saw in the Wall Street Journal that Eric Trump is investing in an Israeli company that makes drones. I just find that kind of interesting in terms of all of this war talk and, and how that's, you know, dad, could you please send some use your drones on. We need the stock to go up. And then the other thing I wanted to bring up is I see that Italy's Giorgia Meloni is trying to, you know, make peace between NATO and the U.S. and if anybody could do that with Trump, I guess she can.

[Host]

Professor, thank you. Grateful to you, Kevin. Kevin, then Larry, thoughts on those two points?

[Kevin]

Yeah, I think, professor, spot on in terms of the role of the Italian prime minister in her relationship with the President. I'll also say the NATO leader Mark Rudd is also really effective, I think in terms of messaging to the president holding Europeans at bay to some degree. And I think to your earlier point about Eric Trump, you know, this is the way of the future. Obviously talking with Andre, just back from Ukraine that Dr. The drones are going to be the fighting force of future war. So it's likely a smart investment on behalf of the Trumps.

[Mark]

Yeah, a lot of foreign policy this morning during our when we open it up to the community, I would agree with Kevin. It's a good investment. And if you're looking to invest in military weaponry, I think Israel is probably a safe bet as well, considering they're always going to have to have a robust and strong national defense and they've gotten quite creative and innovative in their ability to defend their nation.

[Host]

Professor KENNY thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, as you know, today is the debut of the second hour of two ways to morning meeting on Sirius XM channel 111. So I'm going to leave you now, head over to the other platform, join me there. Opportunity for you to ask more questions on Sirius XM. You can do that by calling 833-446-3496 again. This will be every day now, Monday through Friday. 83344, Megan 446-3496. Larry and Kevin will be with you to fill out the hour here. They'll tell you what's coming up. I'll tell you, I'll see you on Sirius XM at 10 o' clock Eastern. I'll see you also at 5 o' clock Eastern for two way tonight and then next stop also will drop later today. So lots of programming coming up as well as more that Kevin and Larry Tay. But gentlemen, I leave the community in your capable hands and I'll see you soon.

[Mark]

I want your first call. We'll see you over on Serious Listener, first time caller.

[Host]

No, I want my, I want my first caller to be to say Baba Booie. That's my goal. Oh, that would. That's my goal.

[Mark]

That's a different channel on SiriusXM but.

[Host]

See if it happens. Gentlemen, thank you. Thanks to you all. I'll see, I'll see you at SiriusXM channel 111 in just a moment.

[Mark]

Break a leg. Yeah, Bill Graham, very exciting stuff over there. Why we didn't have a Rubio discussion on the. We, we talked about Rubio quite a bit yesterday. But you're right, Rubio is still very active there. Kevin Walling, I have a bone to pick now that the dad is out of the room. Oh, you just said that local. There's no local coverage in D.C. on the sewage dump in the Potomac. I know for a fact that my.

[Kevin]

Radio program every morning you are covering it extensively. You are the like Geraldo and that safe. You are, you know, a dog with a bone on that completely as sure as Geraldo found.

[Mark]

Exactly.

[Kevin]

All right.

[Mark]

I just wanted to clear the record. I get very sensitive about my little quaint morning show that you can all [e-mail] every morning.

[Kevin]

Everybody raves. I tell you, my sister in law in Aiken, South Carolina listens to you every morning and is so excited when we're on together. So shout out to Anna Stroman.

[Mark]

Thanks for listening, Anna. Yes, let me just repeat what Mark just obliquely told you. A new episode of NextUp dropping later today. That includes Mark's updated 8 for 28, as he teased so deftly earlier.

[Kevin]

Will AOC remain at that fifth spot? We're gonna find out.

[Mark]

Or will she drop off the eight entirely? And who will replace her? I think Stephen A. Smith might elbow her out at this point.

[Kevin]

Oh, gosh, heaven help us.

[Mark]

Mark's guests also include Michael Alfonso, Trump endorsed candidate running for Congress in Wisconsin seventh, and happens to be the son in law of DOT secretary Sean Duffy. That, that Sean Duffy's too. He's, he's, you know, this is a stacked cabinet. Wouldn't you agree? Kevin Duffy's a good man.

[Kevin]

Well, and again, I mean, I think Sean and Rachel have 18 kids. I think between them. So the sky's the limit in terms of son in law's daughter in laws running for office and the kids too.

[Mark]

Emily Jijinski, by the way, host of the After Party with Emily Jijinski podcast, good friend as well. She's, she's a smarty. She'll also be on next up tonight. Emma Jo Morris, co host of the group chat and Michael LaRosa will join Mark live at 5pm on Two Way tonight. And you want to get that last one because I realize.

[Kevin]

And a new episode of the Moynihan Report with Michael Moynihan is live at 7pm we also have to do a birthday shout out to a great member of the 2A committee, Alan and I wish everybody a very happy Mardi Gras. That's right as well.

[Mark]

And thank you all for watching. Yeah, a lot of foreign policy today.

[Kevin]

But tomorrow we'll see if that's the case tomorrow too.

[Mark]

I doubt it.

[Kevin]

That's right.

[Mark]

Although Mark, he loves that he grew up in a foreign policy house, so it's always going to be sort of the wheelhouse. But we shall see.

[Kevin]

He did indeed.

[Mark]

If we have a big announcement coming out of Geneva, I'm sure we will. Otherwise we'll be back tomorrow, same time. Are we both back? Are you back tomorrow? I'm back tomorrow.

[Kevin]

We are. Yep, back tomorrow.

[Mark]

We'll see you then. I'm at noon on Town hall and then we'll be back tomorrow morning as well. As I said, wfmail.com, kevin, you want.

[Kevin]

To plug anything just how great this community is. I know, right? Hit me up on Twitter, email, what have you. Let's continue the conversation. Thanks, everybody.

[Mark]

Professor Kenny's after show at 11.

[Kevin]

Starting at 11 today.

[Mark]

Bye bye.