Can a New Leader at CBS News End Liberal Bias? Government Shutdown Continues With Both Sides Dug In

Summary

2WAY Morning Meeting: “Can a New Leader at CBS News End Liberal Bias? Government Shutdown Continues With Both Sides Dug In”

Date: October 6, 2025
Host: Mark Halperin
Guests/Panelists: Sean Spicer (Former Trump White House Press Secretary), Dan Turrentine (Democratic Strategist), plus listener Q&A.

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Overview

This episode of the 2WAY Morning Meeting features a lively, “conversations like no other” analysis of the day’s top political and media stories:

• The continuing federal government shutdown and why both sides remain entrenched
• Debate over alleged left-leaning bias at CBS and the media’s role in polarization
• Developments in the Israel-Hamas ceasefire talks
• The political and optics fallout of the Portland and Chicago National Guard deployments
• A controversy shaking up the Virginia Attorney General’s race
• What Paramount’s acquisition of Bari Weiss’s Free Press means for the future of broadcast news
• Engaged audience Q&A on family polarization, the impact of social media, and friendship across political divides

Halperin, Spicer, and Turrentine bring partisan insight but also model civil debate, even as they tackle contentious issues.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What Should Lead the News?

[04:11-04:45]

• Mark Halperin kicks off the "daybook" segment, reflecting on how network morning shows covered the day’s lead stories.
• Dan and Sean note most networks led with Israel-Gaza or immigration, not the government shutdown, which they find surprising.

Quote:

• “No one did the shutdown until 20 minutes in…usually, we’d have a spate of stories about people being turned away from national parks, et cetera.” — Mark Halperin (04:31)

• Sean argues pivotal moments in shutdown coverage will be when federal employees and military members don’t get paid — “Those are going to be your triggering events as far as I’m concerned.” (04:49)

2. Government Shutdown: Both Sides Dug In

[08:23–12:14]

• Mark, Sean, and Dan analyze the lack of movement in shutdown negotiations and highlight media narratives.
• Sean criticizes “pathetic” Senate Republican tactics, saying they should be voting “every hour on the hour” (11:08). He calls out Hakeem Jeffries for skillful but “useless” communication (“He obfuscates really well…that's always something that you want to get your principal to do…” — 10:13).
• Dan argues both sides are taking a hit in public perception:
  • “Both sides are starting to accumulate mud on them…Both sides taking on water doesn’t hurt us. Our brand already stinks. We’re kind of bringing Republicans down with us and that’s not a bad position.” (11:48)

3. Israel-Hamas Ceasefire Talks & U.S. Domestic Attitudes

[12:14–14:45]

• New negotiations in Sharm El Sheikh (not Cairo); uncertainty about which U.S. officials are present.
• Reporting suggests Hamas leadership in Qatar and Gazans support a deal, but Hamas fighters do not.
• Halperin references a significant Washington Post poll showing declining American support for Israel: “Belief that Israel has committed atrocities and just a…eye-opening poll.” (13:42)
• Will a deal hold? Both panelists are uncertain. Dan: “It’s not just parts of Hamas, there’s parts in Israel of Netanyahu’s government…and I don’t think Netanyahu wants this deal at all.” (14:24)

4. Portland & Chicago: National Guard Legal/Optics Battles

Portland Legal Fight

[14:45–16:56]

• A Trump-nominated federal judge ruled against the President’s deployment of the National Guard in Portland.
• Dan expects a quick appeals court ruling—“I think they rule this in the next 96 hours.” (15:58)
• Sean breaks down the legal nuances: “It does matter who gets called up and where…in a limited scope, this is permitted.” (16:03)

Chicago & Broader Optics

[16:56–19:27]

• Federal agents accused of over-aggression with reports of U.S. citizens temporarily detained; Governor Pritzker calls it “Trump’s invasion.”
• Dan: (18:33): “Some of the images…don’t look good…if Trump is going to expand this into more and more cities, predominantly blue cities…public is already getting wobbly on this.”

Quote:

• “If a Democrat called in the Illinois National Guard to Texas to do so…can you fathom if a Democrat was doing this into a southern state?” — Dan (19:48)

5. Democratic Messaging & The “Newsom vs. Pritzker” Question

[19:56–24:04]

• Halperin challenges why Governor Newsom’s confrontational style raised his national profile, but Pritzker hasn’t pulled the same trick.
• Dan says presentation and style are key:
  • “Newsom kind of understands how to poke the bear, how to be short and punchy…Pritzker, in the way that he tries to push back, seems very old school.” (20:30)
• Sean (23:00): “Pritzker doesn’t look the part. He’s frumpy, he’s old. Newsom is stylish and hip…”
• Dan notes Pritzker “broke through a little bit” only when he got “more forceful and punchy.”

6. Virginia AG Race Scandal & Electoral Fallout

[24:04–31:43]

• The Democratic AG nominee, Jay Jones, caught in a firestorm over violent, metaphorically intended text messages.
• Debate on whether condemnation or distancing from gubernatorial nominee Spanberger is needed.
• Sean: “The only reason it came up on any Sunday show yesterday…is because Mark Short at the end of Meet the Press inserted it into the conversation.” (30:57)
• Dan: “We’re going to find out whether in this environment people are so tribal that you can almost say or do anything and it’s not going to move the electorate.” (27:12)

7. Paramount Acquires Bari Weiss’s Free Press: Media Shakeup

[31:43–33:56]

• Paramount (owner of CBS News) acquires The Free Press for $150 million.
• Dan: “They are going to try to reorient, to become more balanced and include conservative voices. And what better way to do that than someone like Bari Weiss…” (32:29)
• Sean questions if it will be considered a success and what Bari Weiss will bring: “It’s a television network, and I still don’t know what her—I mean, she’s brilliant, clearly…But I go, what are you getting as a network?” (32:46)
• Dan predicts noticeable changes, particularly “different coverage of Israel.” (33:38)

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Audience Q&A Highlights

8. Family Polarization and Social Media

[34:06–43:25]

• Rebecca from Michigan shares a story about losing family connections after posting about Charlie Kirk.
• Dan: “If you are in a certain bubble and you get your information in a certain way, you only hear the negative…A lot of people on the left simply will not hear that. They just cannot allow themselves to humanize the other side.” (39:01)
• Sean: “The party that claims that they’re for tolerance doesn’t want to have a discussion…It’s not as we’ve discussed. No one’s having a problem going on college campuses talking about liberal causes…The point is, why can’t we discuss it?” (40:25)
• Advice: Come ready with facts, ask disarming questions, and invite open dialogue.

9. Losing (or Gaining) Friends for Being Politically Open

[43:45–46:44]

• Paul from Princeton asks if the hosts have lost friends as a result of their open debate styles.
• Mark: “I’ve gained many friends from being on the platform. And if I’ve lost any, it’s a much smaller number.” (44:57)
• Sean: “I don’t think I’ve lost anyone, and I gotta be honest…I don’t care. If you don’t like me because…I willingly engage with people who believe something differently, then go screw yourself.” (45:10)
• Dan admits to having “more than a handful of friends who won’t speak to me anymore…but you’ve got to look yourself in the mirror every night.”

10. Social Media’s Role in Political Division

[49:39–52:51]

• Daniel from Port Chester asks: Can any politician bridge social media–fueled divides, or is it out of their hands?
• Sean: “I don’t know that a politician can do it. The technology is so powerful…The algorithm rewards bad behavior and just takes you down rabbit holes…” (50:58)
• Dan: “You have candidates out there that preach cooperation…if the electorate says I want that and not the hot person…then it’ll change.” (52:06)
• Mark: “The incentives are built towards catering to the extreme left or right… If the incentives change, the system will too, but we have to lead the way.” (52:51)

11. Jake Tapper’s Media Mea Culpa

[54:14–56:42]

• Max asks if Jake Tapper’s recent self-critique over media bias is believable.
• Sean: “He was transactional. He wanted to sell books and said what he had to say to sell books…He is who he is.” (54:57)
• Mark: “It’s the biggest media scandal in the history of the United States of America. And to not cover it, having participated in it, just compounds…the loss of confidence in the press and helps Donald Trump every day, ironically.” (56:42)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Both sides are starting to accumulate mud on them…our brand already stinks. We’re kind of bringing Republicans down with us and that’s not a bad position.” — Dan (11:48)
• “You can’t make him into Gavin Newsom…Pritzker looks like a roly, poly plump.” — Sean, on governor political ‘star quality’ (23:03)
• “If you don’t like me because…I willingly engage with people who believe something differently, then go screw yourself.” — Sean (45:10)
• “The incentives are built towards catering to the extreme left or right…we need to create a forum where that conversation can take place.” — Mark (48:15)
• “It’s the biggest media scandal in the history of the United States of America…That helps Donald Trump every day, ironically.” — Mark, on media coverage of Biden’s cognitive decline (56:42)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 04:11 — Daybook: What should be the top story?
• 08:23 — Government shutdown: why both parties are entrenched
• 12:14 — Israel-Hamas deal & shifting U.S. sentiment
• 14:45 — Portland/Chicago legal and optics challenges
• 19:56 — Newsom vs. Pritzker: Democratic response differences
• 24:04 — Virginia AG race: violent rhetoric scandal
• 31:43 — Paramount buys The Free Press; CBS news “balance” move
• 34:06 — Listener Q&A: Family polarization
• 43:45 — Losing or gaining friends for political dialogue
• 49:39 — Social media’s role and limits of political leadership
• 54:14 — Questioning Jake Tapper’s media “mea culpa”

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Tone & Style

• Lively, fast-paced, sometimes irreverent; combines sharp analysis and undeniable partisanship, but always returns to the idea of open, civil conversation.
• Panelists and audience alike often poke fun at themselves and each other.
• Audience engagement is central, and Q&A segments drive home the theme that “normal” Americans are seeking less polarized, more honest discourse.

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Conclusion

This episode offers a bracing look at the persistent divisions in U.S. politics, from Congress to the family dining table, and scrutinizes the media’s power and failings. It’s most memorable for its candid, sometimes biting exchanges, its frank discussion of news, optics, and style in politics, and for modeling how tough debates can occur with humor and a degree of grace.

For those seeking a raw but civil breakdown of the day’s political narrative—and some media insider analysis—this was an essential listen.

Transcript

[Mark Halperin]

Monday morning and it's 9am it's the time for the two way morning meeting. Mom, Shiny Dan are here to bring us peace, love and understanding Conversations like no other. As we gather around, touch to the fact raise your hand to ask a question in the meantime, don't put smack in the chat. It's a two way morning meeting. Keep it short and sweet, we're speaking. Extend the presumption of grace to all Call. It's a morning meeting. Welcome to the call.

I feel so bad for people who are listening to the podcast version of the program because they missed some baffo art that someone did on Twitter of the.

[Sean]

Who's the guy in the middle?

[Mark Halperin]

I don't know. I don't know.

[Sean]

I mean, if that's me, I'm in 100%. But my God, that, that guy definitely looks a lot like he's worked out a lot more than I ever have.

[Mark Halperin]

Anyway, if you're listening to the podcast version, I recommend you jump over to YouTube at some point today to see the art. Or you can look at my Twitter feed. It's there. Good morning, everybody. Welcome. This is the morning meeting on two way. That will not be our theme song on a steady basis, but it was meant to jolt you awake for today's all new episode of the morning meeting.

[Sean]

I could do that. By the way. I thought that was. That was exciting.

[Mark Halperin]

You'd like that one.

[Sean]

I mean, see, this is. I think this is the problem. We can't get it.

[Mark Halperin]

I mean, I like the art shot. I'm with you. If that was the consensus choice, I could live with it.

[Sean]

I could live with it. Not the art. That's all Dan.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah, yeah. It's got a good beat. You can dance to it. Welcome in. Thank you for being a participant in the two way community. If you'd like to be in on this conversation this morning, please raise your hand. If you're on the two way platform watching on X or YouTube. No smack in the chat. Peace, love and understanding to all. Presumption of grace to all. And keep sending us potential theme songs because eventually, eventually we'll find one that all three of us just love and community loves. And we go with it. Gentlemen, how's it going?

[Dan]

It's going. It's great. It's Monday, New week.

[Rebecca]

Listen.

[Sean]

Navy went five zero, beat Air Force One step closer. The commander in chief's trophy. The Eagles lost and then the cap it all off at 11:30 last night. The Patriots win, beat the Bills. I mean, I don't know what this Is something's just in the air about a beautiful week coming my way.

[Mark Halperin]

And the Virginia Governor's race could be in play. A topic we'll get to in just a moment. Today's episode brought to you by our friends at Fairway and Green. You can see on all three of us sporting beautiful outfits from Fairway and Green. If you think, well, sure, you guys have the two way morning meeting logo stuff, but I can't get that way. You can go to two way TV Fairway and you'll see the capacity to buy not just the big logos here, but stuff on your sleeves. You guys got any stuff on the sleeves today, Dan?

[Sean]

There are no sleeves.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah, what do you got on there, Dan? What do you got, Dan? What do you got on your back in the chat? No, smack in the check. So you can get, you can get, you can get golf shirts, you can get, you can get vests like Sean is wearing. And as you go on the side.

[Sean]

Mariner vest, by the way.

[Mark Halperin]

But the, but the pity is, Sean, do people have to pay full price for this stuff?

[Sean]

Mark? They don't. As a matter of fact, if you go to twoway tv fairway, Mark, it's not 10% off, but it's 20% off with code two way 20. That's 20% off anything site wide. And Mark, it's getting colder out, which means a nice quarter zip, a pullover, a sweater, a vest, all items at that site 20% off using code 2way20.

[Mark Halperin]

And we've heard it from all of you who've been smart enough to purchase something or many somethings from the site. It's the most comfortable, well made clothes you can, you could find. It's just extraordinary stuff.

[Sean]

It, it, I did sleep in it again last night.

[Mark Halperin]

You just, you just, you just put it on and it's just so comfortable. And we're grateful for the partnership with our friends there. So Again, go to 2way TV slash Fairway 20% off using the code 2way20. You will not regret it and in fact you'll probably send us a long thank you note.

[Sean]

Hey Mark, real quick, I will say following up on Friday, Alex Sullivan bought the book. Loving it. I'm already about a quarter way through, so I love the community. Great book. Suggestions.

[Mark Halperin]

Yes, thank you, Alex. All right, here we go. Daybook. This is based on the television network news divisions morning meetings. Guys, if you were the EP of A, of a 6:00am cable news show, what would you have led with this morning?

[Dan]

Israel and Gaza, the possibility of a deal with tomorrow Being the three year anniversary.

[Mark Halperin]

That's what Morning Joe led with. CNN left with immigration. I don't remember what CNN led with, but no one did the shutdown until 20 minutes in. Little surprising to me, we didn't have a spate of stories about people being turned away from national parks, et cetera.

[Sean]

Well, you know, I'm not arguing it's.

[Mark Halperin]

Definitely the lead, but I'm surprised. Yeah, go ahead.

[Sean]

On Friday we saw it, I think because the Today show had it on the second or third, so it's definitely slowing. I will tell you I posted a picture of the the gsa, the Government Service Administration paychart and this is what I think if you are keeping an eye, I put it on Twitter and Instagram. If you're wondering when this thing's going to end, watch the pay periods. This is going to be important for watching when federal employees and military members do not get their pay. Those are going to be your triggering events as far as I'm concerned.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah, maybe you're right. That's traditionally done.

[Dan]

I just think that there's no new news. So there is no but, but typically.

[Mark Halperin]

But would you go with would typically be tourists being turned away from stuff.

[Dan]

But they're not open.

[Sean]

The Statue of Liberty's open.

[Mark Halperin]

Some things are closed anyway. I'm just a little bit surprised. I, I, I take your points but I think there's more going on there which we'll explore. Daybook pool includes the National Journal. Hard to believe the National Journal still exists. I don't mean that in a neg. I don't mean that in a negative way, but I don't really know what they do anymore. The President's got no public events, but there is another Caroline Levitt briefing. They seem to be there are more briefing There have been more briefings during the shutdown than typical and we'll explore perhaps why that is no thing on the vice President's public schedule. As you know, the speaker is keeping the House out to put more pressure on the Senate, but the speaker himself is in town. Press conference right when this show ends. 10 Eastern time in the Rayburn room. 5:30, the Senate's gonna do another test vote. No one's expecting there to be any difference in terms of the number of Democratic senators who vote to open the government back up. And the House Democrats are virtually caucusing at 6pm Eastern time. Egypt. It's 4pm Local in Cairo where Jared Kushner and Steve Witkoff and other members of the American team are leading negotiations to try to get A ceasefire between Israel and Hamas. Supreme Court. Hear ye, hear ye. Comes into session. Opening. Opening at 10 o' clock today, I went to hear an argument in a case that my family had brought against Richard Nixon and others for wiretapping our phone. And if you're a plaintiff. If you're a plaintiff, you get to go. So I got to go. And you get to hear two cases argued, and we were the second case, and I fell asleep during the first case and. And the bailiff came over and woke me up and said if I couldn't stay awake, I had to go. So have you ever.

[Sean]

Have you ever shared that before? That's sort of one of those things where everyone says, tell me an interesting fact about yourself.

[Mark Halperin]

It's in Google. They wiretapped my home phone for 21 months, and we sued, and I expected to get rich over it. As a kid, I thought we were going to get rich because the statute calls for the wiretap. Statute is $100 a day from each defendant, each plaintiff, and we started out with about 20 plaintiffs. The case went to the Supreme Court twice, and we never.

[Dan]

What was it? Did you guys say it was unlawful or. What was the.

[Mark Halperin]

To wiretap our phone without a warrant? Yeah, we thought that was a violation of our Fourth Amendment right. Sure. Anyway, we'll spend a whole episode on it. Not today. And week ahead. Jimmy Kimmel's guests this week include Seth Rogen, Jeff Bridges and Tim Allen. But listen to who Colbert has this week. See if you see a sense of pattern. Gavin Newsom, Mark Kelly and Jake Tapper. Any pattern there? Any pattern there, Sean?

[Sean]

I'm gonna go with. They're all Democrats.

[Mark Halperin]

Okay. All right. Even though.

[Dan]

Does Fallon have tonight?

[Mark Halperin]

Mark Fallon tomorrow has tail.

[Dan]

Oh, I thought it was tonight. Sorry.

[Mark Halperin]

I think it's tomorrow. All right, let's. Let's lead with the shutdown. Even though no one else did. Lots of sound and fury on the morning shows yesterday, the Sunday shows, nobody took any new positions. There seem to be no negotiations going on. Is Sean correctly says some people view a triggering moment as the pay periods where people aren't getting paid. Although traditionally in shutdowns, everybody gets their back pay. But if you're living paycheck to paycheck, that's small comfort.

[Sean]

There's not getting it is a big deal.

[Mark Halperin]

Here is one of the few Monday pieces of sound pertaining to the shutdown. This is White House National Economic Council Czar Kevin Hassett on QuackBox112, please. But the bottom line is right now we just want a clean continuing resolution. And any government worker that loses their job because of rifts after another failure, failed attempt to negotiate is going to be really there because the Democrats are being intransigent. I know Kevin likes to smile, but I'm not sure smiling while you're talking about people losing their jobs is necessarily.

[Sean]

It's a default.

[Mark Halperin]

It is a default. Dan, do you agree with Sean that there'll be nothing much happening until the pay periods kick in?

[Dan]

Yeah. I mean, look, I think both sides still feel relatively comfortable. I mean, I think they, both sides, I think, know how this is going to end, which is I think the Democrats will ultimately vote for the clean CR and Republicans will ultimately do something on the Obama tax credits. But right now, Democrats keep saying we're not hearing from people at home to end this. We're hanging in there in the polls. You can argue how much they're up, but there's no poll that shows them down 10 or 15 points. And so they say, why should we cave right now?

[Sean]

Look, the thing that I find fascinating about this is a couple of things. One, the media coverage this morning. Hakeem Jeffries continues to make the rounds. I will give him credit on two things. One, he's everywhere. Two, he obfuscates really well. And I say that like, as a seriousness, like he gets given a question and he goes into his talking points. And as a comms person, that was always something that you want to get your principal to do, which is regardless of the question, here's the answer you give him. It could ask if it's raining outside and you say Republican obstructionism is blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So I'll give him credit on that. That being said, he is completely useless in this discussion. Republicans have the votes in the House. The game is in the Senate. And I still can't believe that after playing video after video showing Hakeem Jeffries and all of these Democrats months and months ago over the past, whatever, saying the only way forward is to open the government back up and then negotiate. It's their own words. The bottom line is this is a clean cr. Open the government up and do this on my own side. A. I'll say it again. I was embarrassed that these guys walked away for the weekend. It was pathetic to see Senate Republicans who control the floor act like somehow they couldn't work over the weekend. John Thune should be having a vote every hour on the hour showing that they work. It's 5:30 tonight. It's a scheduled vote. I mean, seriously, this is Pathetic. And I think that these guys should be jamming them over and over and over and over again and having that vote. And then the last thing is the House going out again, come back, start to force appropriations, put one or two of the bills through the conference process. These guys are not, I think that they're playing short term ball.

[Dan]

I think both sides are taking hicks. I don't think anyone winning this like both sides are starting to accumulate mud on them. And look for Democrats, we were already favored to take the House back. We can argue, you know, how much the economy is not great. Both sides taking on water doesn't hurt us. Our brand already stinks. We're kind of bringing Republicans down with us and that's not a bad position.

[Mark Halperin]

All right, we'll talk more about this this week, but let's move on. First of all, thanks to the community for always catching me when I fall. And air the talks are not in Cairo. They're, they're in Sharmal Sheikh and not clear who's actually there. It's been reported that Ron Dermer was there, that Jared is there and that Witkoff's there. But, but I'm being told now maybe they're not there. So we'll check on that. We'll diving.

[Sean]

There's great diving there.

[Mark Halperin]

There is great diving. There's also a great skeeball lane, Skeeball arcade. Anyway, we'll look more into that. But the talks are going on. Reporting over the weekend that the president has made it clear to Netanyahu that this time he can't pull his normal bull crap and he has to be for it enthusiastically. The Wall Street Journal headline suggests that hamas is split 108. The folks negotiating from the comfort of the Ritz Carlton in, in Qatar are for it. Gazans have a message for Hamas. End the war. Now worry Palestinians say President Trump peace plan isn't perfect but a halt of fighting is more important. So it seems if you believe the reporting that the folks in the Ritz Carlton are for the deal, the people are for the deal in Gaza, but that the Hamas fighters may not be for it. And a lot of talk in my world over the weekend about this new Washington Post poll showing support for Israel amongst everyone in the United States, all groups is just really, really horrible. And belief that Israel has committed atrocities and just a, just an eye opening poll, directionally we've all known that that's where things were headed but boy, that does not strengthen Netanyahu's hand with anybody in the United States who can read a Poll, by the way.

[Sean]

Friday, New York, Friday, Friday, the Nobel Peace Prize gets announced. Just saying yes.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah, we'll see. The clock's ticking, Sean. Wonder who's going to win that, Sean, by the end of the week. Will there be a deal?

[Sean]

I think so, yeah.

[Mark Halperin]

Dan, will the deal hold?

[Dan]

Yeah, that was going to be my response. I don't know. Because there are. It's not just parts of Hamas, there's parts in Israel of Netanyahu's government. And I don't think Netanyahu wants this deal at all. So. Boy, you're asking both sides to keep playing ball. I don't know.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah. All right, we'll come back to that all week as well. Portland, number 105, please. This federal judge has ruled twice now against the man who nominated her for the federal bench in Portland. Last night she held a, a emergency hearing by. I don't know if it's zoom or what it was over but electronic hearing and the administration's appealing to the Court of Appeals. So, guys, is the Court of Appeals going to hear this and rule today? Like, how quickly do we think the Court of Appeals is going to get involved here? This is a question of whether the President can deploy the National Guard in Portland. This judge says absolutely not. And even though she's a Trump nominated judge, she's writing as if she's writing for the dispatch in very, very powerful terms, saying the President's way overstepping his bounds, that this is not a situation appropriate for the President's deployment of the Guard, let alone active duty military. Guys, do you think the Court of Appeals is going to take this enroll immediately?

[Dan]

Immediately being the end of the week?

[Mark Halperin]

Well, I would think some people are saying they're going to take it today or tomorrow.

[Dan]

I think they rule this in the next 96 hours. Yeah, sometime here.

[Sean]

So there's two distinguishing factors that have to be taken. Number one, deploying the guard of the same state. So if they call up the Oregon Guard in Oregon under title 10, that is a very different thing than calling in another states under Title 32. And I know it sounds wonky, but it does matter who gets called up and where. The second thing that's important is I think that the administration was really smart about how they did this. It's almost like they really saw the ruling on L. A and said we're looking to protect federal buildings and federal assets, ice, you know, and other so that you're not doing crowd control. And like they are in D.C. i have a feeling that the, that the way that they have written it. And I haven't read every brief, but I think that the appeals court takes it and says in a limited scope, this is permitted.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah, I agree with that. That's what I think is going to happen. And then, and then, of course, the question will be what is, what do they do? They allow the process to go forward pending what will surely be by whoever loses in the Court of Appeals, an appeal to the Supreme Court. Okay, we'll see. Whereas not much is actually happening in Portland except for legal battles. A lot is happening on the ground in Chicago. 106, please. And here you have a lot of activity. Here's the AP headline. Using helicopters and chemical agents. Immigration agents. Probably need to get the word rep out of that headline. Become increasingly aggressive in Chicago. There are reports that they've taken U.S. citizens into custody, at least temporarily. And the mayor, the governor of Illinois, is having none of it. Here is some x action from Governor Pritzker 107A this evening. This is from last night. President Trump is ordering 400 members of the Texas National Guard for deployments in Illinois, Oregon and other locations. No officials from the federal government called me directly to discuss or coordinate another set of tweets from Governor Pritzker. We must now start calling this what it is. Trump's invasion. It started with federal agents. It will soon include deploying federalized members of the Illinois National Guardian against our wishes and will now involve sending in another state's military troops. I call on Governor Abbott of Texas to immediately withdraw any support for this decision and refuse to coordinate. There's no reason a president should send military troops into a sovereign state without their knowledge, consent or cooperation. Dan, how does this one end?

[Dan]

I don't know. Because, you know, for the first time since Trump has started doing this, there have been some optics that don't look good for the federal government. Just like when there was a Mexican flag in Los Angeles and stuff. And I said that looked really bad for those arguing, like, you know, that the protests were peaceful and that stuff. Some of the images of almost naked children having their hands tied on the side of the street does not look good. And so I'm not sure how this ends. But I think if Trump is going to expand this into more and more cities, predominantly blue cities, and you see instances where it sure looks like they're being more aggressive than necessary. I think the public is already getting wobbly on this. I don't think it's going to be great for Trump. I think it has been good, but it could Start becoming a problem for him.

[Mark Halperin]

Sean, do you see any optics issues or legal issues?

[Sean]

Yeah, I mean, I'll go back to what I said before and what I said about D.C. d.C. Is unique. It worked well there for a lot of legal reasons. I think calling in troops from another National Guard state into a random state is where you're going to have legal problems.

[Mark Halperin]

What do you think?

[Sean]

Do you think.

[Dan]

And by the way, if a Democrat called in the Illinois National Guard to Texas to do so, I mean, can you fathom if a Democrat was doing this into a southern state?

[Mark Halperin]

No, no, no. Let me ask you a question. Maybe you guys think this is obvious, but Newsom continues to lead national polls, sometimes tied with Harris, but. But he clearly has benefited from, from on social media, in the courts. Going after Pritzker is not benefiting the same way. There's no indication that he's from a. He's from a big state. He's from a state with a lot of media. He's from a state in the central time zone. Maybe the answer is obvious. But Dan, why is Pritzker not getting a 28 bump even though he's basically doing what Newsom did to get a bump?

[Dan]

I think part of it is the way that Newsom communicates. I mean, Newsom kind of understands how to poke the bear, how to be short and punchy. Like you. You hear Newsom and it sounds defensive or it almost sounds like a written statement being broken into multiple.

[Mark Halperin]

You mean, you mean Pritzker. You mean.

[Dan]

I'm sorry, Pritzker being broken into like multiple tweets. But it's not. He just his personality in the way that he's kind of trying to push back to me seems very old school, almost like Jeffries and Schumer. Whereas Newsom gets. Is more like Trump, which is more catchy and more attention grabbing. So I just think Pritzker, it's how he's doing it.

[Mark Halperin]

Sean, if you were a comms survivor to Pritzker and he said, look, I'm doing this because I want to, it's the right thing to do, but I also want to get a 28 bump out of it, what should I do differently? What would you tell him to do differently?

[Sean]

I mean, I think this goes back to. I mean, I agree with everything that Dan said. I think presentation matters and how he comes across. I think you have to figure out how to utilize what you consider his strengths. You can't make him into Gavin Newsom. He's, he's image wise. Gavin looks, you know, has A look to him has an ability to speak in sound bites. I think you have to really have an analysis of what works well for him and try to maybe. I mean, look, you think about even when he did that one event on the river and he's got Trump Tower behind him, I mean, the optics were horrible. Like, he doesn't. I frankly think you need to bring in more people and say, okay, guys, tell me how to. Because right now his team is failing him.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah, I'm a. I'm as you know, a Pritzker Skeptic for 28. And to me, this is like. This is like a laboratory experiment. He's. He gets a fair amount of coverage. He's not shy about doing stuff, and yet no bounce whatsoever. So, Dan, am I. Am I being. Am I wrong to treat this as a 28 kind of dry run or.

[Dan]

Sure, of course. I mean, anytime you get a chance to be in the spotlight and again, you have a pack of 15 people. Newsom broke out of the pack. Right. AOC has been out of the pack for four or five years. This is your moment, if you're JB Pritzker, to show the party that you've got a nimbleness and a fight to take it to Trump. And he just seems super kind of reactive. And I'm trying to think of the right word to describe it, but see.

[Mark Halperin]

I would take issue with what your analysis that he's doing it differently than Newsom. I think it's virtually identical. I don't think it's more. Any more old school. I just think the dog won't eat the dog food. That, that people in the Democratic Party do not look at him and say, that's the guy who's going to break our electoral College.

[Sean]

This goes back to presentation. Look, I think Pritzker doesn't look the part. Okay, that's.

[Mark Halperin]

That's what I think. That's what I know.

[Sean]

But I mean, like, he's frumpy, he's old. I mean, Newsom is stylish and hip. He knows when to wear his black shirt, untuck it, and with jeans to look hip and stylish, Pritzker looks like a roly, poly plump.

[Dan]

Like, the only reason, Mark, I'll disagree with you is when Pritzker went to. I think it was New Hampshire. And when he was in Washington for the DGA and he got more forceful and punchy, he broke through a little bit. And we even said here his trip to New Hampshire went fairly well. He got some good local press when he's more aggressive in terms of the presentation. And again, I can't think of the right way to describe this. Like, how did Newsom break out? Newsom was complaining about Trump for a long time, and in the wildfires and everything else, he looked terrible. But when he got punchy and catchy and used some humor and was taunting, and in his face, the party was like, oh, look at this. It's new. Somebody's doing this. Pritzker doesn't seem to be capable of any of that. Okay, then there's a difference.

[Mark Halperin]

Okay, Sean, explain to people who haven't followed this, in part because the dominant media has largely blacked it out, what's happening in the Virginia attorney general's race that's causing Republicans to think that it could impact not just that race, but the governor's race?

[Sean]

All right, so Jay Jones, a former legislator, he is the Democrat nominee for attorney general. And there were some text unearthed between him and Horner, who is a delegate in the House of Delegates. A Republican delegate.

[Dan]

By a Republican delegate. Yep.

[Sean]

Where he said, if I had two bullets and that there were three people. Hitler, Pol Pot, and Todd Gilbert. Todd Gilbert is the former speaker. The Republican speaker of the House. I would use both on Gilbert and then basically go after his family.

[Mark Halperin]

Okay, so just to summarize that, because it's complicated, the guy who's the Democratic nominee for attorney general in Virginia this fall, who's running against a Republican incumbent. Right. Yes.

[Sean]

Jason.

[Dan]

Mayor.

[Mark Halperin]

He's an incumbent. Sent text two years ago.

[Sean]

Yes. 23. 23.

[Mark Halperin]

Three years ago. To a Republican colleague, basically saying, you know, I'd love to assassinate. And he was angry. He was angry over. Over politics. We don't even.

[Sean]

Right.

[Dan]

I mean, that's. That's angry.

[Mark Halperin]

He's. He was speaking metaphorically. He was speaking metaphorically, but. But, but very loosely. And he. And he since apologized for it.

[Dan]

Well. And the guy in the text, the Republican in the text says, hey, stop this. Like. Like I am.

[Sean]

So she says. She basically. Right. So Kerry says, stop it. Right. But then this is where I think it gets worse. This is after he gets confronted with it. This is J. Jones's response. Like all people, I sent text messages that I regret. And I believe that violent rhetoric has no place in our politics. Well, first of all, just stop there. Like all people, I generally have not called for the assass of people and their family and their kids, by the way, Todd's kids.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah.

[Sean]

Then he goes on and says this. Let's be clear. What is happening in the attorney general's. Race right now Jason Myaris, the Republican incumbent is dropping smears through Trump controlled media organizations because it was the National Review that broke it. So you're blaming Jason Mayores for the fact that you sent text trying to assass claiming that you would like to assassinate the speaker of the House and his family and you're going to blame the National Review and Jason Myares for that.

[Mark Halperin]

So their ads, their ads already on the air against, against the gubernatorial nominee Spanberger who has not, who previously has praised Jones and has not distanced herself fully. Dan, if you were an advisor to Spanberger, what would you tell her to do?

[Dan]

Well no, she did, she did can condemn but she had not do.

[Mark Halperin]

It's called for him to step down or call for him to step down as anomaly.

[Dan]

Correct. And I think, look, I think this is so first off, I believe as we said before that he was speaking rhetorically. He was frustrated. In this environment though, it looks terrible. I mean it just full stop.

[Mark Halperin]

Well it is, it is, it is terrible.

[Dan]

It is terrible. No, no. Well yes, absolutely. Period. I think the challenge is and we're going to find out whether in this environment people are so tribal that you can kind of almost say or do anything and it's not going to move the electorate. Right. Because what you're seeing with on, on the Democratic side of the aisle in response to this, and I think this is kind of Dems trying to comfort themselves is Trump says crazy stuff all the time. He doesn't apologize, he doesn't step down. So, so we can push through this. We're going to find out that race is closer than it was by all accounts two months ago.

[Mark Halperin]

Who was, who is, who was the favorite before this develop this development occurred.

[Sean]

If you believe polling it was, it was about the public polling has it about five so five for who's that? So so let me give you the.

[Mark Halperin]

Public polling in the government in the AG's race.

[Sean]

Right. So just talk right now Spamberger is is public polling ahead by about 10 over winsome Earl Sears, the current elect lieutenant governor. In the lieutenant governor's race which is John Reed, he is probably the closest among four and then Jason Mayor as Jay Jones is between five and six in public polling.

[Mark Halperin]

I can who was ahead five or six?

[Sean]

All the Democrats.

[Mark Halperin]

All the Democrats.

[Sean]

Now I will say private polling among the campaigns shows this a much tighter race.

[Mark Halperin]

Why why would the incumbent, why would the incumbent Republican attorney general be down.

[Sean]

Just I mean again look at where according to the public polling I mean Winsome's down anywhere from 12 to 8.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah, but she's a bad, but she's a bad candidate and not, I think.

[Sean]

It just bleeds down. I mean this is, I personally believe, I mean just my take on the race. I think that right now, if the election were held today, both Miaris and John Reed would both win statewide. I think Winsome is right there, but I think those two will win, no question about it.

[Mark Halperin]

Dan, is this, is this a crisis for your party, at least in Virginia or not?

[Dan]

No, I don't. I mean, look, it's a problem, but there's so much stuff else going on that I don't believe it will. You know, it's not the only issue between now and November. Yeah, but, but here's the problem. They're super nervous in New Jersey, like super nervous about losing New Jersey. Democrats are. Yeah, if I think people felt pretty good about Virginia, now they feel less good about Virginia. They're worried. You still have the idea that Mandani may get elected in New York City and you could be looking at we lose the shutdown, we lose New Jersey. Virginia is not as rosy as we hoped and we have a socialist in New York City. That's not the best end of the calendar year for the Democratic Party.

[Sean]

Yeah, I agree with Dan. I mean, look, I think New Jersey is, I think Jackson really wins and I think in New Jersey this is the Terry McAuliffe moment. If you remember four years ago, this is when Terry made those comments about parents shouldn't be involved in education. Youngkin ceased on that and we wrote a wave to all three constitutional officers in Virginia. But look, this isn't just. This is the idea that what are we, three weeks after Charlie's assassination, four weeks, this, that not one national Dem has been asked to condemn this. I mean, this is pathetic. And the only reason it came up on any Sunday show yesterday, any Sunday show is because Mark Short at the end of Meet the Press inserted it into the conversation. Kristen Welker was going to ignore that. And here's the big picture for me. And by the way, I will just say this, Mark, cuz you brought it up. The idea that Winsome Sears is the first one up on the ads and not Jason Maier's. Jason's consultants should be shamed and fired and never used in Virginia again. This is pathetic. That his, that they're not out there kind of crazy. But the last thing I'll say is this, you have a candidate. And again, Dan, I will say this like having a text change where it says Dan, I'm so. I could kill Mark. Okay, but when you say if there's two bullets and one of them's Hitler, one of them's Pol Pot, I would put both of them in Speaker Todd Gilbert's head. That's not like a one off. Hey, I joked about killing someone. That's a thought through process. And you take that and what happened with the Portland ice? There is no both sides.

[Mark Halperin]

Okay? Mandate the test and the demons mandate mandatory exit question. Will Spanberger have to distance herself? Will Spanberger distance herself further on this matter than just condemning what he said? Will she either unendorse him or call for him to step down? Yes or no? She will not, Sean.

[Sean]

No, she will not.

[Mark Halperin]

Okay. Lastly, big news in the media announced this morning. Long expected, long rumored, Paramount has bought Barry Weiss's Free Press. The Free Press, $150 million. Now, Barry doesn't get all the money because she had investors, so she doesn't get it all, but she gets a nice chunk of change. Paramount buys Barry Weiss's the Free Press for $150 million. The Journal has the interview as I think the only one so far at least with interviews with both Barry Weiss and. What's his name, the guy's name. David. David Allison, explaining the deal. Dan, explain to people who don't understand the media in one or two sentences, why did Paramount buy the Free Press?

[Dan]

Because they are going to try to reorient, to become more balanced and include conservative voices. And what better way to do that than someone like Bari Weiss and put her at the table to try to help balance their coverage.

[Mark Halperin]

Sean, will this be a year from now considered a success?

[Sean]

I think it's a great question and I think kind of it depends on who you ask.

[Mark Halperin]

I mean, I think I'm asking you, dude.

[Sean]

No, no, no. What I mean is if you're an investor in CBS or Paramount. I don't know that it. I think you'll probably say, why did we pay that much? What did we get for it? I don't know what she adds in terms of like how much of a role she's going to play, but that's going to be the X factor. I. It's a television network and I still don't know what her. I mean, she's brilliant, clearly, right? And she's a solid reporter. But I go, what is, what are you getting as a network? Is she going to do CSI or. I mean, like, I don't know.

[Dan]

I think David Ellison is got a plan. I think they are not. And I know there's difference of opinion within the own two way team about this, but I think David Ellison is not going to just allow this to go off and he's going to focus in other directions. I think they're going to bend CBS to become more conservative.

[Mark Halperin]

At a minimum. They're going to have different coverage of Israel. I can tell you that. At a minimum. All right, Chad, welcome in. Tell folks who don't know where you are, parts unknown and what's on your mind. For Dan and Sean, thank you for being part of the two way community. And may I recommend a fairway and green shirt to upgrade your outfit?

[Rebecca]

I'm very particular on shirts, though. Very particular. You talk about the pants and stuff and I don't know if to trust you just yet on the pants. Not from fairway and greens, but what's the other?

[Sean]

Cozy Earth.

[Mark Halperin]

Cozy Earth.

[Rebecca]

Very particular but no honor to be on first question of the week. This is for the great American Mark Halperin Milgram, Searching for Truth. I always got the feeling that right after the election you were maybe thinking about or in the process of writing a book on Joe Biden and the media's coverage of cognitive decline.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah.

[Sean]

Is that ever a thing?

[Rebecca]

Are you in the process of that or is too late taking up too much of your time? I understand. Starting.

[Mark Halperin]

Thank you. Thank you for asking. I have about 25 books I want to do and as soon as someone offers me a suitable book deal to do it, I will do it. But I'm pretty busy building this company and so it's just a matter of priorities. But I've got a great Biden Media book in me as one of the 25 books I'd like to do, but there are currently no announcements. Awesome.

[Rebecca]

Well, thank you.

[Mark Halperin]

Thank you for coming on. Thank you for being part of Two way. Grateful to you. All right. Hopefully there won't be a lot of questions about my upcoming schedule.

[Dan]

Oh, I like that. More questions for Mark.

[Mark Halperin]

Okay, Rebecca, welcome in. Tell folks who don't know where you are after you unmute what's on your mind for Sean and Dan and my agent.

[Rebecca]

Hi, good morning, everybody. I'm, I'm calling in from Michigan, so. Good morning.

[Sean]

Do what where on the hand.

[Rebecca]

I'm from Texas, so I don't, I don't know how to do all this, but I think that whenever they do tell me, I'm like in the lower part.

[Mark Halperin]

Yes. I don't do that. I don't do that anymore. Because if you're from the up, then you're not even on the hand.

[Rebecca]

Right, right. Yeah, no, I'm from Texas, so I never, I never got the whole hand. Hand thing.

[Mark Halperin]

Why'd you move from Texas to Michigan, Rebecca?

[Rebecca]

Family. Family and more job opportunities. So I'm up here doing some medical billing, stuff like that, so.

[Mark Halperin]

Awesome.

[Rebecca]

But I had a question. It might be for everybody, I think, I think you guys are a great group.

[Mark Halperin]

Thank you.

[Rebecca]

Y' all are a good group as far as like y' all know how to talk to each other. And I, and I do have some liberal friends, very far left leaning friends. And we still talk, you know, I'm able to talk to them, I'm able to have conversations with them and then we just, you know, start talking about something else if we just can't talk about it anymore. But my, my question more so right now is gonna be because I'm having a hard time with my family.

[Sean]

And you too, huh?

[Rebecca]

Big, yeah. Really hard time with my family. It had, it was after the Charlie Kirk incident. I don't know if you Dan or you Sean or even Mark. I know Mark is pretty balanced. He can, he can go either way. But after the Charlie Kirk incident, I posted something on my Facebook and I don't post, I don't, I rarely post on Facebook. I post, if anything, I post on X, like repost and stuff like that. But I do not post on my Facebook. But I was, I was, you know, it, it affected me in a way because I, I listened to Charlie Kirk, I, I listen to those people and, and you know, and so I made a post anyways. I'm getting, I'm going far off. I made a post and, and, and it was, it was just everything that you guys maybe talk about on here, they, the way they responded and the way that, you know, the right leaning media portrays the Democrats as far as like how they reacted. It's exactly how they reacted, you know, you know, what about, what about Melissa Hortman and then talking about, you know, he's a homophobic, he's a xenophobic. I mean, just, just, just, just attacked me on this post. I didn't say anything. I didn't want to reply because I just, I don't believe in. No. And, and I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna argue with my family on, on the social media post. I think that's really tacky. But anyways, that happened and ever since then she, you know, it was my cousin and my sister, My cousin unfriended me. You know, my sister said horrible things about Charlie KIRK like just, just first of all, they were false, you know, taking, taking quotes out of context, that, that sort of thing. But just overall it has really driven our relationship back into the ground. And like, I'm just like, I don't know what to do. Like, I don't know how you guys handle it.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah. REBECCA great, great topic. And we'll let Dan first and then Sean, but quickly tell everybody that the Supreme Court just has declined to hear Maxwell's appealing Maxwell's appeal, and they did it with an unsigned order. So we don't know what the divide was, but the administration had urged them not to get involved. And now if she wants any sort of relief, she's going to be more reliant, of course, on any sort of clemency from the President. But that, that was expected to come down in the first day and it did. DAN thoughts on REBECCA Well, Rebecca, I.

[Dan]

Feel your pain because I have the same exact situation. I have family members that won't speak to me that don't want to be in the same room with me, that do say similar stuff or send me texts with similar expressions about individuals. And I think part of the challenge is it's just two different universes. If you are in a certain bubble and you get your information in a certain way, you only hear the negative and sometimes it's not true and it's conspiracy theories. I believe the same is true a little bit on the right on Charlie Kirk. Charlie Kirk was not necessarily my cup of tea politically, but I think from this platform, from Mark, from Sean, from others, just what he meant to the conservative movement, how he engaged the type of person that he was. A lot of people on the left simply will not hear that. They just will not. They just cannot allow themselves to humanize the other side. And it's heartbreaking. I don't have the answer to you. I just find when I'm with my family, we don't talk politics sometimes. And when we do, those who don't want to do it, leave the room.

[Sean]

SEAN so I would say that first of all, it is telling. Again, the party that claims that they're for tolerance doesn't want to have a discussion. And I think that's, that's where I find it so fascinating.

[Dan]

Both sides, but it's not a one way street.

[Sean]

Yeah, there's a one way street, actually, and it's a one way highway because what has happened is over the last 30 years, it's the Republican and the conservative and the MAGA voices that have been shut out of Discussion. They've been canceled, debanked, censored. So it is not as we've discussed. No one's having a problem going on college campuses talking about liberal causes. It's, it's. No one's being fired for their jobs, for supporting, you know, aoc.

[Dan]

Oh, that's not true anymore. Now it's not true at all.

[Sean]

Okay, so we'll take 30 years for 30 minutes. But I will say so number one, that, that it's very telling about the discussion. Number two is, I would say, look, one is you have a choice when you make a post like this. And two things come to mind. One is have the facts right. So Charlie was all about the discussion. And if that's like, even if what they claim was true about Charlie or anyone else for that matter, it doesn't matter who it is. The point is, is that why can't we discuss it? If you don't like some policy or someone, just say, great, then let's discuss this. Like, inform me, why am I wrong? Or why, why should I. Why do you think this. But like, shutting down a discussion is the most unhealthy thing to do. And I think third is come to them with facts. Really. You know, here's here are. Here is what he did say, or here's what so and so is. Here's what's in the tax bill. And then the last thing is, I always find the most disarming thing is just questions. Tell me why you believe that. What exactly did he say that offended you? Where is. You get it? You know, where did you get that from? Or can you show me the link to that? But forcing their hand to show you what they're talking about to me, exposes everything, right? And that's, again, either they want to have a discussion or they don't. But I think sometimes just disarming it. That's interesting that you think that way. Can you send me a link to that? Or do you have a site that shows that? Because half the time it's. I heard Rachel Maddow say it.

[Rebecca]

Right. And, and I, and I do agree with that. I think it was more so of the approach and the fact that it was family coming onto a post that had no, My post had no invite to anybody really. It was just kind of, you know, he was a good man. This is what he stood for. He was, you know, he liked. He loved Jesus out loud. And I mean, you know, I'm, I'm a Jesus follower and I love that about him. And so I think it was just the approach. And yeah, it's really driving a wedge in our family. And now that I'm a little bit. I'm a lot more awake now and I can see what's happening. And you know, my cousin, she works for the governor, so, like, I understand that there is just complete. There's. There's no. She's not gonna. She's not gonna fall or listen to me on anything. I'm. I'm baby cousin, I'm little sister. I'm. I'm never gonna, you know, they're not gonna listen to me. Rebecca, I think, Rebecca, the approach.

[Mark Halperin]

Invite them to come on two way with you and let's have it out together.

[Rebecca]

I would love that.

[Dan]

All right.

[Mark Halperin]

Invite them. See if they'll come. Rebecca, thank you. Really interesting topic. Really important. Thank you for that.

[Rebecca]

Yeah.

[Mark Halperin]

Dan, how many does she speak for?

[Dan]

10 and 10.

[Mark Halperin]

20 million, maybe. All right, Paul, welcome in. Tell folks who don't know where you are what's on your mind.

[Sean]

Oh, we're going pro here.

[Dan]

All right, you're muted, Paul.

[Mark Halperin]

Gotta unmute. Paul.

[Sean]

Yeah, I'm mute.

[Paul]

How about now? All right, thanks for having me. I'm calling from the People's Republic of Princeton, New Jersey. And, yeah, and my second time I was on before the election.

[Mark Halperin]

Welcome back, welcome back.

[Paul]

I got hooked into you guys. This is fantastic. This is for people who like to think and talk and debate. It's just fantastic. Which leads me to my question. I am curious. This is so unique. Dan, Sean, Mark, have there been repercussions to you guys for. Have you lost friends? Because you sort of are open to have dialogue and debate and sort of be open. Open to have your minds changed, Right? Because I see people come out on tv, oh, they say something, they're gone the next day. Because nobody likes what they have to say. And so I'm just curious if there's been any impact to you all and in your specific circles.

[Mark Halperin]

I've gained many friends. I'm serious. I've gained many.

[Paul]

I'm your friend.

[Mark Halperin]

I've gained many friends from being on the platform. And if I've lost any, it's a much smaller number. Sean.

[Sean]

I don't think I've lost anyone. And I gotta be honest with you, Paul, I don't care. I'm at a point in life where I am comfortable with what I believe in. I know who my friends are. I know what I value. And if you don't like me because of something I said on a program, but because I willingly engage with people who believe something differently, then go screw yourself. And that's kind of where I think I've gotten to the point where I enjoy the conversations that we have on this platform. I think it's healthy. It's good for us. I think I'm very principled in my stances and my beliefs, but I think that we can have civil and open and frank dialogue with people and still go out and have a meal or a drink afterwards. And if that's not something that you believe in, then I don't really want you in my life.

[Mark Halperin]

Dan.

[Paul]

Amen, brother.

[Dan]

Yeah. Paul. Did I meet you on the street, by the way, in Princeton once?

[Paul]

We may have crossed paths, I think.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Paul]

Somebody yelled at you, got in your face, pushed you around.

[Dan]

I'm down there frequently. Yeah, for sure. I've lost friends going back, particularly last fall. This is like a therapy session today between my family and friends. It is what it is. To Sean's point, you got to look yourself in the mirror every night. And I. You know, some people don't want to hear certain things and think that you should say whatever is necessary to help your party, even if it's not true. And I. I don't have any problem with people who do that. It's just not me. And. But I've got more than a handful of friends who won't speak to me anymore.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah. Two way. Two way is a business. Right. We're in the. Where there's a business. But we also believe that we can help transform America by having conversations like this that don't really occur very many other places and which for which there is an enormous appetite. And part of our determination. You know, I appreciate always Dan and Sean being honest, but part of our determination is. Is to demonstrate that the loudest, angriest voices on the national town square, on the left and right, who are intolerant of diversity of opinion and don't look for conversations like this that they're. They're. They're not a big group, they're a small group. They're just loud and angry and very squeaky wheels. So they get a lot of attention and they have a lot of power, but they're like bullies. What undermines their power and is if you don't let them win, the point of view that Sean expressed, if you don't let them win, if you don't let them control the national town square, they'll go away because their whole. Their power is predicated on winning. The minute people stand up to them, they go away because they don't have strength in numbers. They're really not a very big group. They're just loud and angry and they've intimidated politicians in both parties to do what they say because they're loud and angry and they give campaign contributions and they, you know, if a typical congressperson sees 20 negative tweets and they say, oh my God, we must do what these 20 people are doing because they're just intimidated by that. And our, our premise is folks like you are more numerous and in fact therefore more powerful. We just need to create a forum where, where that conversation can take place.

[Sean]

By the way, just to Mark's point, you wouldn't believe how many times I've worked with candidates. So big little kitty426 said da da. And you're like, are you kidding me? Like, you know, it is true.

[Paul]

I, I, I will say I, one of the things and I'll, I'll move on. But I, I, I will say like I am struck at how weak minded. I'll, I'll just say supposedly our best elected officials can be about this sort of thing and not stand up. I, I'm, I, I don't live my life like that. I don't know how somebody else can. I get the politics of it all, but at some point you have to be who you are.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah. Part of, part of why a lot of elected officials like Two Way is because they know that this is a more rational, civil, sane, better way to live and that, you know, they want us to succeed because they, they don't want to live that way. But the, the incentive structure and, and all the, all the, all the, all the incentives are built towards catering to the extreme left or right. And we just think there's a way around that. Paul, thank you for coming on and your kind words and for being part of Two Way. Daniel, my brother. Can you unmute? You are younger than me. Can you unmute? Daniel? I'll try one more time.

[Dan]

That would be the Elton John reference.

[Mark Halperin]

Daniel, welcome in. Thank you for being part of Two Way. Tell folks who don't know where you are. What's your mind for shining in.

[Daniel]

Thank you for having me. From Port Chester, New York. Some of you may know some locals, I think. Thank you for this. Long time. First time. Long time. I love the morning and the evening show. I dip into the group chat sometimes.

[Mark Halperin]

Awesome.

[Daniel]

My first time on here, I'm going to ask more of a broad question rather than something topical. Mark, you've said a number of times how fraught the conditions in America are particularly political conditions if we all agree with the premise that social media is probably a net negative for building positive relationships. If that's the case, then what would a politician, and I'm thinking more from a political policy standpoint, what would a politician look like who can bridge that gap and kind of bring everyone back together, despite the, I guess, particleization that social media has been causing? And conversely, if no such person exists, are we just kind of stuck structurally with social media, kind of poisoning or salting the landscape until there's a massive reflexive action backwards against it?

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah, it's a great question and would require a PhD thesis to do it justice, but Sean will try, and then Dan, and then I'll weigh in. Sean.

[Sean]

I don't know that a politician can do it. Daniel. I think part of the problem is the technology is so powerful. That's the problem that it rewards the algorithm, rewards bad behavior and just takes you down rabbit holes that are not helpful. So I don't know that a single person can do this. I will say that people like Jonathan Haidt, who have done phenomenal work in exposing the dangers of this. I mean, I can tell you the number of times I come across parents who say, like, oh my God, it sucks and it's so bad. And, you know, every time my kids on TikTok, and I'm like, okay, you know, you gave it to them. Right. Like, it's not like the kid, like. So I think that there's a reckoning that needs to occur, not with politicians, but with, with parents in particular.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Daniel]

If I could just jump in really quick.

[Mark Halperin]

I agree.

[Daniel]

I think there's. Sometimes people think like, the condition today is the condition forever.

[Mark Halperin]

Right.

[Daniel]

And there's. And there is going to be a snapback at some point. Like my kids, for example, who have access to social media, their generation, which could be, you know, 20, 30 years from now, they might be the thing that changed this. But I. But I think that's well said. Thank you.

[Dan]

I mean, I just. Two things quickly. The lack of social media is not the real world. And I think sometimes everyone can get caught in conversations on X or Instagram or Snapchat. But, like, the big majority of this country is not living and breathing it. They go on it, but they don't. And I keep saying this, when the free market rewards candidates for saying, let's come together, then that's when you're going to get it. But right now, both sides are still pretty angry at the other. It goes to the conversation about family and friends. But you have candidates out there that preach cooperation, that preach the other side isn't evil, isn't going to destroy America. And if those can, if the electorate says I want that and not the hot person over there, when it'll change.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah. Evidence that Sean's correct, that a politician will not lead us through this is that we had three straight two term presidents in Clinton, Bush and Obama who couldn't have dedicated more of their careers, their campaigns, their rhetoric or their presidencies to trying to bring the country together. And each of them left office with the country more polarized than the previous one did. And now none of them really try all that hard. Clinton tries a little bit. Bush and Obama basically have checked out. And when they stand up to the base of their party just a tiny little bit, they get, they get hammered back and they give up. So it's going to have to be a people led movement. And I believe campaign contributions, volunteering, supporting supporting platforms like this is the way we'll change the way politicians respond. 90% of members of Congress would like the system to be different. 90% would prefer a system where the center out is what accommodates our politics rather than the extremes. But the incentives don't allow them to act that way. So we need to lead the movement by giving them different incentives. And if the incentives are, you can raise money and get on the media and have legislative success by cooperating with people for sensible policies. Most of them would want to do that and they will. But we have to lead the way. Daniel, thank you. Grateful to you. All right, conscious of the time, Max, if you can be real quick, come on in. But you got to be real quick.

[Rebecca]

Great.

[Max]

Real quick. I heard before about optics and Dan's meant dance comment. I'd like to talk to you guys about a member from your media, Jake Tapper. Now talking about being really honest. If the majority of the people in the establishment media are pro left, how is it that you have someone. How do you see Jake Tapper's mia culpa for his book deal look really hollow and completely insincere given his, his actions and his speech lately. I think he's one of the biggest, biggest liars out there. But that, that's based on his, his actions and I'll mute from here.

[Mark Halperin]

Okay, we'll let Sean answer because I know he's got a strong position on that.

[Sean]

Sean, I, I think you said it well, I mean, look, he was transactional. He wanted to sell books and so he said what he had to say to sell books and in that respect, as a conservative, I applaud him because, you know, you do what you have to do, business wise. But at the end of the day, I mean, I think he, he is who he is. He's exposed himself over and over again. You know, I don't have much more to say. I mean, you know, he, he. Go ahead, Mark.

[Mark Halperin]

Dan, even if you want to be.

[Dan]

Charitable and say it's a genuine conversion, it's hard to outrun your history.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah. And, and, and I've, I've spoken about the book quite a bit. The book does, isn't honest because it pretends that the Democrats who were in the room with Biden were the only ones who could have seen his cognitive decline. And it does nothing to say that the press screwed up. So in those are two. Yeah. Acknowledge it. So, I mean, those are, those are two pretty big absences from a book that purports to tell you the truth about what happened. You did not need to be in the room with Joe Biden, as I said many times, I'll keep saying, because it gets a laugh every time. All you needed was a C SPAN subscription to see what happened. And so I think it's incredibly disingenuous, but. So 90% of the media, there's still not been an accounting in the New York Times, the Washington Post, of how they missed the story that was in plain sight and why they missed it. They missed it for two reasons. They missed it because the Biden administration threatened access if you didn't pretend that Joe Biden was having cognitive decline and because they wanted to make sure Joe Biden won the election. Those are two reasons that make it. I said before, it's the biggest media scandal in the history of the United States of America. And to not cover it, having participated in it, just compounds what is something that undermines confidence in the press and helps Donald Trump every day, ironically.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Sean]

Thank you, laptop. The Russia hoax, even this weekend, the failure to even cover J. Jones's comments. I mean, it's. They don't learn the lesson, they just keep doing it. And that's the problem.

[Mark Halperin]

No. All right, Max, thank you. Thanks to everybody. Let's run through what we've got. Coming up today, Megan McCain at noon has Fox News's Kennedy Kennedy, one of the most lively conversationalists appearing on cable. Please join Megan at Noon for Citizen McCain with Kennedy. What's the name of Ken? I didn't know Kennedy had a podcast. I guess I should have assumed she did. Anybody know? Anybody know what Kennedy's Podcast is called I should know but I don't. Anyway, Kennedy, Fox News commentator, podcast host. Yes, MTV for older people. MTV Kennedy. And then 6pm tonight I will be on with Democratic strategist Stephen Alikari Kara and others to run up the day's news. And of course we'll have full coverage of Caroline's briefing. Sean, what do you have at 6?

[Sean]

We have a couple house members joining us tonight to break down obviously where things are, the tactics and a lot that happened over the weekend. So a lot to break down.

[Mark Halperin]

Kennedy's podcast was told is called Kennedy Saves the World, which I rake high is a good name for a podcast. Kennedy name.

[Sean]

Do you know Kennedy's first name?

[Mark Halperin]

Kennedy's first name. I, I thought it just was like share Madonna.

[Sean]

Well, I mean that's, yeah, that's what she. Yes, it has been that since MTV days. But anyway, that's fun fact.

[Mark Halperin]

What's her first name?

[Sean]

Lisa.

[Mark Halperin]

Lisa Kennedy. Did not know that. Anyway, thank you for being part of the two way community. This program is brought to you today by our friends at Fairway and Green. Dan, one more time, explain to people how nice the clothes are.

[Dan]

Absolutely phenomenal. The best golf clothes. And not even just for golf, hanging out, going out with your family. They are versatile and comfortable and do.

[Mark Halperin]

The kids have theirs yet?

[Dan]

They just have borrowed mine. They're now getting to be my size. So they just go into my closet and take what they want.

[Mark Halperin]

And how do they feel about them?

[Dan]

They love it. One of them played golf in it this weekend.

[Mark Halperin]

All right, Again, go to Fairway 2way TV Fairway to get your discount using the code FAIRWAY2WAY22WAY20 to get 20 off site wide. And as you said, you can get the logos. You can also get our catchphrases on the sleeves. Catchphrases include no smack in the chat. Peace, love and understanding and conversation and conversations like no other. You can get them.

[Sean]

There's a movement in the chat to add go screw yourself. But I don't know.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah, yeah, we'll check with our partners there.

[Sean]

I'm not sure that's. That's they're looking.

[Mark Halperin]

They're a little more straight laced than we are for good reason. Thank you for watching. We'll see you in 23 hours. Have a great day.