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The Morning Meeting
Charlie Kirk Investigation: Will Trump's Probe of Left Wing Groups and Violence Get Results?
01:03:50
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- [00:00]
A
Martha listens to her favorite band all the time. In the car, gym, even sleeping. So when they finally went on tour, Martha bundled her flight and hotel on Expedia to see them live. She saved so much she got her seat close enough to actually see and hear them sort of. You were made to scream from the front row. We were made to quietly save you more Expedia made to travel Savings vary and subject to availability. Flight inclusive packages are atoll protected. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible financial geniuses, monetary magicians. These are things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to Progressive and save hundreds. Visit progressive.com to see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations foreign.
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B
Good morning and welcome to the new morning meeting with Sean and Dan. We changed the password earlier this morning and locked Mark out. Now if you watched yesterday, you know he has a long standing commitment. So we are having our Al Haig moment together today. For those of you not old enough.
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C
To remember, don't put in the chat. Who's Al Haig? We're going to feel very old, but.
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B
We will pay tribute to someone of that era. Robert Redford died earlier today. Let's just kick it. Dan, I like what you're wearing. You've gone with. Is that royal blue or a navy?
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C
I think this is what we would call French navy. Sean, just if we're going to be on the color spectrum here. Yep, it is another great fairway and green polo. Love, love fairway in green. It's comfortable, it's great. Been in it all morning. Did not sleep in it because I don't like sleeping with a collared shirt on. It's uncomfortable.
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B
Oh, I don't even feel the collar when I roll over.
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C
No, but I like yours. I like the morning meeting. I like the blue green kind of on yours. It's looks great.
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B
It's wearing on me because I had a jacket on earlier this morning for TV so this kind of. I could fake it, you know, I'm a much darker blue kind of guy but I got in touch with my pastel side today. But yeah, this is all available at the site if you want to go. It's two way TV fairway and then you have to use code two way which is the numeral two. Two way, 20 for 25, 20% off and you can get, you can see Dan wearing the two way branded stuff and there's the morning meeting stuff. There's two different tabs at the Top for those of us who are challenged electronically. If you want the two way stuff, there's a tab at the top. If you want the morning meeting stuff, there's a tab. But it's.
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C
Yeah, you look starting Christmas shopping now, folks, and I'm telling you, never too early.
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B
It was a little chilly this morning when I walked the dog, which you may want the quarter zip or whatever.
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D
So, hi, I'm Anthony Scaramucci and I'd like to tell you about my new show, Lost Boys. It's a limited edition series. It's hosted by myself and Professor Scott Galloway. We're having honest conversations about a topic no one wants to talk about. The crisis that young men are facing nowadays. Our talks discuss why so many young men are struggling to find purpose, connection and identity in today's world. We dig into what's really going on, politics, culture, loneliness, even rage. And what we can do to help change the narrative. This is a six part series that will challenge your assumptions and encourage you to continue the conversation from the dinner table to the office. Follow and listen to Lost Boys on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. You can also go to Lostboys Men and sign up to get the latest episodes and news.
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B
Anyway, Dan, you look great. Why don't you tell us what's happening today in the daybook.
- [04:03]
C
Thank you, dear. All right, it is a big day today. We'll start with just the pool here. 101. There are of course two pools because the President will be leaving here shortly to head overseas where he's going to have quite, quite a trip with the state dinner, I think is the big apex of his trip over to Europe. J.D. vance. No, no, no known public events, obviously. He had quite a day yesterday. We'll talk about that here. Coming up on the Hill, Cash Patel is going to testify. We'll talk about that soon. I think it'd be interesting to see what both sides of the aisle have to say. Congress is in town. The House Republicans have their meeting starting right now. Probably Jake Sherman's already tweeting about it. It'll be interesting to see as they try to put together their plan for the budget. And across the Capitol, Senate Democrats are getting together. And House Democrats will hold their weekly meeting as well as both sides try to put a game plan together and sell the public. And then at 10am House Oversight is doing stuff on Doge. Don't forget about that. And the Senate will also work on the defense budget, which is a somewhat controversial thing. 2:00pm Charlie Kirk's assassin will appear in court and be formally charged. For those who are following this part closely, he is being charged in state court, not federal court. So this will be the first chance to see a charging document and what they have to say about Tyler Robinson. And then tonight, President Obama is going to give remarks in Pennsylvania at an event I'm sure he will talk about. Charlie Kirk. And then on the economic front, US Retail sales and the consumer price index, both. I think we're just out. So actually, we'll have to see what those have to say. So with that, Sean, should we dive into this?
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B
Yeah, let's go.
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C
All right, so first up here, Charlie Kirk. I mentioned it with the Daybook, a big, big series of events today. We are going to get that sentencing document. So we will see here for the first time what the government has to say. I imagine that the Tyler Robinson will speak, if nothing else, to, to enter a plea here. Sean, anything that, that you're watching for with that?
- [06:39]
B
Yeah, it's interesting. I, I had Will Chamberlain from the Article 3 project on my show last night, and I was asking what he, what, you know, whether or not the death penalty is going to be right on the table or how he thinks this is going to go with all the evidence. It's going to be interesting there. It's very, it's going to be very hard to make an insanity plea, which I assume would be the only thing you could say is I was. And his point is all of the actions that he took to set this up and like, he left his phone, I mean, it was very premeditated, meaning it's hard to say that I didn't know what I was doing. So that's off the table. But the thing that I thought was fascinating from, from Will's analysis was that he, he read the Utah statute on aggravated murder, and there's a difference between murder and aggravated murder, which gets you to the death penalty. And long story short, his analysis is that the state's going to have a really hard time proving that he hits the criteria for aggravated murder because he wasn't an elected official. There is a potential case. Charlie was a member of the board of Visitors of the US Air Force Academy, but that you'd have to make the case that the murder was connected to his position in the government or, or as an elected official. I think that's tough. But, but the bottom line is I think that that's where the feds are going to come in and we're going to see a lot to your point. On the charging document of what they have based on all of the witness evidence, the forensic evidence, the DNA evidence, I think that, and the stuff that he apparently has said in chats, I think this is a pretty open and shut case. And the question is going to be do they try to immediately make the, find some way to, to really try to get this down to a death penalty case or not. And, and I think that the charging document, to your point is we're going to really get a sense of what we have. I just, I don't see how you can possibly make a not guilty argument unless you're just using that as a way to start a conversation about taking the death penalty off the table in saying we'll plead if you can do this.
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C
But they don't think there's any chance he pleads guilty. And this is taken off the table pretty fast.
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B
You know, again, this is where lawyers would say look, if we start with not guilty, then that's our only chip to get the death penalty taken off the table. And I, again, I'm not a lawyer but, but my conversations when I asked people that question, because I don't, you know, I've watched so much Law and Order, I don't get why, you know, I've seen them walk in and say we've got you, we don't need to negotiate. So I, I don't know. But I will tell you that the public outcry is going to be such that it's going to be hard for them to negotiate because there's no, everybody wants justice in this case. So I think to your point, this is where the feds though, will come in and make it a federal case.
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C
So the other thing here that's going to happen is Cash Patel is going to testify today. I think it's the House side that he's going to sit. This is obviously or not the Senate side. This is going to be a chance for people to ask him questions. He obviously got a little out over his skis at first. He's taken a little bit of heat frankly from, from both parties. Let's see this. Element 106. Donald Trump yesterday did kind of speak publicly to back Kash Patel. Sean, anything that you're watching for, I mean from my side of the aisle, I am curious how Democrats play this. Yeah, this is a very, you know, you need to be very care careful here given the, you know, overall subject matter is the assassination of Charlie Kirk. But anything you're watching for there.
- [10:23]
B
So three things. One, Cash has been on television Saying I might have gotten a little ahead of myself, but. So he has already publicly sort of taken the clean up a little, right? Yeah. And I think done so well. So it's going to be hard to come after him because he can say, as I've said before, number one, number two is that I think he has the default of being able to say, this is an ongoing investigation, obviously you'll see the charging documents. So I don't wanna discuss any of this. Right. That gives him a lot of COVID And then three, what I'm really looking for is what you're saying. The Republicans, I think, are gonna take the foot off their gas on this. We got our guy, if you will. We've got somebody in custody. They're gonna go in front of a court today. Republicans might have not been pleased with some of the initial back and forth and public pronouncements about. Okay, but in fairness, even that guy, I think his name is George Zinn, literally yelled, I'm the guy who did this. Right. So he. And now the question is, was he part of a greater conspiracy? So you can understand why law enforcement thought they had somebody because the guy literally said, I did it. So I will say that in the heat, in the fog of war, there is a bit of understanding as to what happened. How Democrats handle this though, because say what you will, but Cash is, is going to come into this ready to pounce.
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C
Yeah.
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B
And so how Democrats come after him is going to be critical because this is not, you know, this is the one where you've got it. You, you don't want to look like on an issue that is pointed at one side, you do not want to be the people that are suddenly trying to go after the guy that is on the law enforcement side. So I think how Democrats handle this is going to be important. And I think Republicans will give him the long leash to let him try to let Democrats go for it.
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C
Yeah. I think the two things for Democrats is going to be one, that Cash Patel, since he got the job, has been very public and engaged on social media and in front of the tv, kind of commenting about a lot of things. And so I think the Democrats are going to try to hit him on the fact that you're the FBI director, not a podcast host or anymore, and speculating and kind of putting out tidbits here and there to try to be in the news is not how you're supposed to run investigations. I think the other thing you're going to hear is all the people that they fired, it came out when they were looking for the guy that I think over 200 agents have been fired. Again these are people who worked on cases like January 6th and others that would be the kind of Cash Patel side of this. But has it impacted the Bureau's ability to do its job in circumstances like we just had? So I think it'll be interesting to see how he handles that. To your point, Sean, I'm sure he's ready for it.
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B
Well that's the thing. He knows what he's getting into. He's got a good team. And so this is not but again if anyone, this is where Democrats better be very careful that they don't overstep on this.
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C
Yeah.
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B
Because he's going to turn it right back on him. And so I would, if I were back on the Hill advising my boss, I'd say ask some random question about crime stats and move forward. But this is not the moment that you want to risk getting embarrassed on national television. I will say we touched on this for a second on the daybook. The President takes off for the UK around 8:30 this morning so or should have already. So it's interesting because you know, I can't remember what the broadcast schedule is in terms of flight time but you know you're heading across the pond here and so Cash I think doesn't start. What did you say?
- [14:05]
C
Is it, is he, I think it's 10am here.
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B
Yeah, 10am so the question is will the President even see it for now because he's headed, you know, I can't remember how much TV time they get before it kicks in to movie time. So you know that that's another interesting thing and I didn't mention on the daybook but what was unique about today's daybook is while we focus on the day cuz that's what we're doing here. The White House for the first time in my memory put out a three day schedule. So this is, they're, they're laying it out. And what was important about that it wasn't just the longevity of it but they made it very clear that there would be a press conference on Thursday with Keir Starmer, the Prime Minister over there. And I thought that was a very clear signal on that the President wasn't willing, wasn't going to just walk away from his trip without saying anything. So I also thought it was fascinating that the Brits agreed to do that. Keir Starmer has a lot of explaining to do when it comes to some of the, the Epstein stuff as well. So this is sort of, I thought it was fascinating that the Brits were okay with it. Generally you give deference to the person who's hosting, what the media availabilities will be.
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C
Well, we'll have to see. So the next topic here is, as you know, that's kind of the immediate with the Charlie Kirk next steps. But Sean, one of the big questions, obviously that tragically is now having to be discussed is what is next, do you think, for the movement for Turning Point usa, for the party in general. He's played a huge role the last decade as he personally and what he built. Where do you see the movement now going?
- [15:43]
B
Well, look, the, I mean, we talked about it yesterday with the chapters, the number of chapters. The President remarked on that in the Oval Office yesterday. The intensity, the, the interest is off the chart. But I think the thing, the two things that fascinated me over the last 72 hours are one, Erica Kirk, her speech Friday night was courageous. Was. It was, but it was the idea of being able to stand there and it made me realize that she may be playing very, very big place in this. And you can imagine after a tragedy like that, the idea of speaking public is one thing, but the idea of speaking as boldly and as courageously as she did makes, made me. And I've met her a few times with Charlie. When she spoke, it made me think that's, that's somebody who I can see rallying the, the, the movement and moving forward. She is such poise and, and presence that I, I was like, that's somebody at, you know, that could do this if she chooses. The other thing that was interesting and this is tangential because it's not the movement, but if you didn't listen to the last 13 minutes of JD Vance, I tweeted out last night, I think it's from marker 5, the last 5:40 to 7:12. So I literally time stamped it. If you go to my Twitter account, if you didn't listen to that, the way he framed the debate going forward crystallized JD Vance's place in this movement. So he may not be the doer at Turning Point USA in Phoenix, but he has clearly cemented himself as the, as the messenger of this going forward. So I think it's may not, you know, there's pieces of the movement, but it was very clear to me in the last few hours, last few days that this movement is going to continue and it may take a little while to figure out who drives which part of it, but it's going and it's going to stronger and bigger than ever before.
- [17:52]
C
I think it's going to be really fascinating. I mean, Mark made the point yesterday, I don't know how many people kind of caught it, that this could be like the Dobbs decision was in terms of the fuel that it provided the Democratic party in the 2022 midterms that just people didn't really comprehend until election day just how many people felt so passionately about that decision. And now, you know, Sean, you, you, you've mentioned it too. You know, does the movement now kind of rocket fuel through the next 18 months and you know, potentially the next two and a half years where people just quietly go about the job of registering and engaging and advocating and recruiting candidates, you know, not just for federal office, but for local office? I'm not. I still don't think Democrats realize what is happening here on the other side with the intensity and the passion. And I think it is true. It is almost two work, two universes right now that just don't even talk to each other. Their media consumption, what they're focused on. I think as a Democrat, I've seen it on the opposite side where events happen on the left and we think, my God, everyone's talking about it. But then you turn on conservative media and nobody's talking about it and you just realize it's parallel alternate universes. And I think on the left we are making a mistake not comprehending the significance, the political significance of what may be happening now.
- [19:22]
B
So the thing that's interesting about that point is twofold. One, when the Dobbs decision came out, the remedy was go vote.
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C
Yeah.
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B
And that's great, but it's a one time action. It's go vote. Okay, done. What's happening here, and I kind of alluded to it yesterday and commented on again today, is that people are like, I want to sign up, I want to start a chapter, I want to do this, I want to do that. And that. That data, that action isn't a one time deal. Right? When you, when people were pissed about Dobbs, they're like, I'm going to go out and vote. And that was it. But nobody, nobody was able to catalog it. And I think what's going on with TP USA is those names, those chapters, that effort is going to build itself. And the thing about data that is fascinating because Charlie and I actually had a long conversation about this back during the election is that once you start scooping it up so that they know that Sean Spicer did this or moved here or did that, that voter File stays with you for life. So when you start to channel this into a way that we can capture it, that's very different than just going out and voting. Because I don't know why Dan Turntine voted in November. Right? You might have voted. I think maybe Dobbs did something, maybe it didn't. But unless you can capture it, and what's happening right now will be something that will have a lifelong effect. Effect for people on the right to capture and follow. So they can say, that individual who signed up at TP usa, they got fed into Data Trust, that then got fed out to the RNC and all these campaigns, we can now follow them for the next 30, 40, 50 years and track their voting habits and make sure that we stay in touch with them. We know what motivates them, what call to action to use to them. This is a very different political phenomena that's occurring right now. And to your point, I don't think people fully comprehend the longtime lifetime significance of what's happening. The second thing is, as I noted yesterday, this isn't just, I mean, the number of people and who are outside of the political mainstream. Talking about the impact of Charlie Kirk is not like a normal political action or figure. This is something that has transcended the normal boundaries of political conversation. It's not a Barack Obama or an AOC or Bernie Sanders or even a Donald Trump. I mean, this is now getting people who still to this day aren't gonna vote for four or five years, but are impacted by Charlie. And so I do think you're right that what has happened here is something that I think is gonna have a lifetime effect on politics.
- [22:02]
C
Well, we'll see. I mean, the one thing about Dobbs that we learned and we talked about it in the fall of 2024 is, you know, voters are not monolithic. They've got issues that arise in their life as life evolves. And we thought that Dobbs would stick with people for four years and certainly in 2024. And what we learned was, you know, inflation or crime or immigration, like, ended up moving as a higher priority. Now, this is different because Charlie represented many issues, but so, Sean, let's transition to another thing which I think is a little bit more controversial. And I think we're going to be talking about quite a bit going forward, and that is this issue of kind of hate speech versus free speech, obviously. JD Vance yesterday hosted the podcast. Several administration figures appeared on the podcast to kind of add their voice. Stephen Miller was the most, I think, made the most news on that front. But I mentioned that there are kind of these alternate universes right now that on the left, yes, obviously there's mentions in the New York Times and other places of the Charlie Kirk case. But other news is kind of moving up. And if you watch MSNBC at night, they're kind of, I don't want to say moving on, but other issues are getting a play. If you turn on Fox News, conservative media, it is still largely 90% on Charlie Kirk. And the administration seems that their message here in terms of this crackdown that I guess is coming is going to be to go after hate speech. And for a lot of Democrats, they sit there and their jaws drop that it's all being talked about as hate speech. When the conservatives, after January 6th and other things, this is what Democrats were talking about. We gotta get rid of them, we have to go after them. And the administration seems aware of this because you're hearing figures say, no, no, no, no, no, that hate speech was different than this hate speech. What are your thoughts on it? Because one of the things that I see is there's a chance to overplay your hand and turn people off and have your own cancel culture where people get completely turned off. That this looks like a outta control jihad almost. But what are your thoughts?
- [24:24]
B
It's interesting. I'm not a big fan of trying to evoke January six as a topic, but since you went there, the thing that was interesting is that where Democrat, I think Democrats in the left jumped the shark on January 6th when they started depriving people of basic rights. There are people that did bad things. And then when you say great, we're not going to allow you to talk to a lawyer. We're not going to, we. It's like, wait, so now you're going to go that far that you're going to deprive people of basic civil rights, constitutional rights. And they lost the narrative. What Liz Cheney and others did on that committee was taken issue that probably could have galvanized a lot of people because of the support of the mainstream media. And they went way too far. And to your point on this issue, and this is where I agree that we've got to be careful. I got asked about this earlier this morning because they said, you know, based on what Attorney General Bondi said, there is a big difference. Politico this morning in their playbook said, I guess cancel culture is now I forgot their words back or whatever. The left canceled the right for existing, for its mere just having an opposing view, for believing in conservative principles, for Supporting Donald Trump or the maga, America first agenda literally said, you can't exist. Because you do that, we will get rid of your job. We will come after you, we'll dox you. That's not free speech. When you go after somebody because they cheer the assassination of another citizen or violence to them, that's different. The Supreme Court has been clear on that. So as long as we stay on the right side of the court, where the court has very clearly said yelling fire in a crowded theater is not free speech, we're okay. But we've got to, I think, stay on that line that says if you advocate for the violence of another citizen against another citizen or the assassination thereof, that's different. Now you're peeding on. And where the media, the politicos and others get this wrong is canceling somebody or going after them. And again, we're not canceling them, but I think exposing. If you want to go on social media and say, I cheer the death or murder of an innocent civilian, then I do think it's fair enough for me to say, great, I'll let your employer know if that's acceptable. I have no problem with that. If I say that. Call it out. But I think there's a difference because what was happening to the right is people were calling up, you know, their corporate thing and saying, did you know they support Donald Trump? Did you know that they are a MAGA supporter? Did you know they attended a Trump rally? That's very different. And I think that as long as we stay on the right side of that, we're okay.
- [27:00]
C
Yeah. I mean, it's going to be interesting, right, because to your point where you have evidence that somebody supports violence or an assassination or harming throwing rocks through windows or something that is real violence, then I think you're right. The American people are on that side, the vast majority. It's an 8020 issue. Nobody supports that. I think where somebody says, hey, I didn't like Charlie Kirk, right. I didn't like his politics. I didn't like some of the controversial stuff he said, you know, and you could put in Donald Trump's name, right? Immigration or like whatever your issue is, and people say, oh, my God, you know, that is. And some administration officials have talked about the. Have talked about this issue, I think, in very loose ways. I think they probably mean, Sean, what you're saying, but the politics of this, looking forward, I think Republicans are going to have to be really careful because Democrats and the media will look to pounce when they see overreach And I think that's gonna be, you know, all's fair and love and war here a little bit. Republicans are gonna have to be careful. And Trump's history is to go big, to go bold.
- [28:07]
B
That's what I said. I think we have to tread carefully on this because there is a difference. I will say the one other thing that's in the mind of a lot of people on the right is that during the BLM riots, there was violence, vandalism, destruction. That was excused. It was. It's okay because it's in the. In advance.
- [28:22]
C
We talked about this. Yep. Yeah.
- [28:24]
B
And, and we cannot, because I want to maintain the higher ground on this and say, you know what? I don't. Again, you're right, Dan. If you don't like somebody, if you don't like their policy, you. That's, that's. I've said this before, and I'll say it again. The beauty of the First Amendment is you have to be willing to defend that of which you abhor, which you hate. But I hate a lot of policies. I hate a lot of political speech, but I'll defend it. But I will not defend the violence against another innocent civilian. So that's the line that as long as we're good on. But where I think the difference between the right and the left is right now is that we watched a series of left wing officials and media personalities defend violence and destruction in the name of what they deemed the greater good.
- [29:11]
C
Yeah, yeah. No, absolutely. Well, we'll have to see. I think the White House does seem sensitive to some of this stuff. I know Trump kind of made the comment about after the Minnesota shooting that he didn't lower the flag because he wasn't asked. Like, I think the White House is aware that some of this stuff is being. The mirrors are being held up and they need to try to get ahead of this. All right, well, let's move on here because we're almost at half an hour. The Fed seems like we had kind of, if you're a Trump supporter, step forward with Mirren being confirmed and he's going to be seated. Appeals court said Cook. No, can. Can stay for now. Sean, anything that you're watching, it looks like she's going to be there tomorrow, obviously.
- [29:52]
B
Yeah. The key thing is, does Chief Justice Roberts, who would hear an emergency appeal, get involved? I have a feeling the answer is going to be no on this. They'll send it for a full hearing. I do still think Trump will ultimately win that. I agree he does have cause, but the Other thing. Right. Is and why don't we, if we can, can we play one110, the basic clip? Because since we're on this, I just want to get ahead of the.
- [30:20]
E
Joe, as you know, President Trump's very sophisticated economically and I think he has been right at almost every turn, whether this first term, his second term. And if he thought inflation were the problem for the American people, sure, he'd be well willing to have rate hikes. But right now the problem has been that the Fed has been behind the curve. We're hoping they will start catching up in a rather fulsome way. As your previous guest said, a 25 basis point cut is priced in tomorrow and we will see whether the Fed wants to go to neutral or become accommodative.
- [31:02]
B
So I think that that clip is critical to understanding. They are now basically laying the groundwork. If you don't go beyond a quarter, you have failed us. And I think that that was, I don't know that people are going to understand or fully appreciate the nuance there. But Bessant hasn't just been saying, you know, they didn't, they're raising the stakes going into this meeting.
- [31:24]
C
Yeah, I mean, look, I, Yeah, yeah. I mean I think one, it's ridiculous to say that Trump's always been right on everything. Nothing drives me more nuts than that hat Trump, Trump was right about everything. I mean, look, you can't say you want one. Yeah, yeah, they look nice on the bookshelf there. You can't say that the economy is the greatest and it's the golden era and then say, well, you should have been cutting rates a lot sooner. I mean, it's hard to square that. I know he talks about housing, but.
- [31:51]
B
That'S just, But I think the point that I'm making is that as we get into this thing.
- [31:55]
C
Yeah.
- [31:55]
B
The administration previously would have, you know, the quarter basis point would have been good. And you could have said, see, I got it. They're, they're raising the stakes 24.
- [32:04]
C
I agree.
- [32:06]
B
I think that's important because if you're, if you're, you know, Chairman Powell, I think this just made it very clear that like you don't go to 50, you might get Lisa Cooked.
- [32:16]
C
Yeah, yeah. Now. And of course you have bank CEO starting to say increasingly like there is a serious slowdown beginning to occur. One more topic here, two more. Just quickly, Sean Crime, the president now said on Fox it just really didn't get as much coverage obviously given Charlie Couric, but they are going to go Into Memphis, there's a focus on juvenile crime. Anything you see now coming up on this here as you look forward.
- [32:43]
B
Well, this goes back to what you're saying about sort of hate speech and free speech. I think this has been a winning issue because crime and your personal well being are very personal things. I've always said that about why people are motivated to vote. And I think what the president has done and shown in D.C. is an example of what can be done if the willpower is there. Same thing he did on the border. We were told and we were gaslit that you couldn't do anything on the border. Thirty days in, he showed what that change in leadership really could mean. What they've got to be careful of, whether it's Memphis or Chicago, is that if they start getting to a legal battle, like Mayor Bowser, I think giving her credit for how she handled this and she's going to benefit from it and the people of D.C. and the visitors, I. It's noticeably better. I keep going. I was there again last night and, and she played this well. There were legal reasons and constitutional reasons. She did it. But at the end of the day, if, if he can take a place like Memphis and make it safer, if he can take a place like Chicago and make it safer, that should be welcome. You and I have talked about this in the past. Democrats can handle this well. But as much as there's political risk for Democrats, there is political risk for the administration that they don't go too far and look like they're depriving people of rights and that they're getting into a battle with the mayor. And so, yes, Mayor, I mean, Governor Lee yesterday from Tennessee in the Oval, Hey, I'm supportive, but clearly that mayor down there in Memphis is not singing off the same sheet. So I think they just have to be careful. The one other thing that is tangential to this, Jeanine Pirro and others, you can tell there's a big crackdown on juvenile crime. And that has been a massive problem in D.C. in particular. And so how they address juvenile crime equally, I think will be important as well.
- [34:28]
C
Yeah, and that's a huge issue here in New York, too, juvenile crime. And I think, you know, for Democrats, the big issue is remains, and this is just, I feel like a broken record. Something is better than nothing to most voters. And as long as the party is arguing the crime, that there isn't really a problem in all these cities, I think we're going to remain on a back foot and remain divided. All right, one more Topic. Before we get to your questions here, raise your hands. A lot of you have. Sean and I are going to go in a different direction. We love all the new people, but all of you existing longtime loyalists, we are going to call on you today because you guys have patiently sat while your new friends are brought in. Yeah.
- [35:11]
B
But real quick, before you get to that, I know you know you don't like to sleep in your fairway and greens, but because. But that probably means that you're sitting there tossing and turning at night, which if you're dragging or exhausted, I get it. That's where our big sponsor, CB Distillery, comes in. They can make a real difference in that sleep that you're. I know you can. I can tell you it's not just sleep that can help you with your entire body. Stress, pain, you name it, all sorts of high quality, clean ingredients, no fillers, premium cbd, if that's your thing. Just imagine waking up putting on that fairway and green shirt using promo code 2way20, and not feeling those nagging aches that you probably go through every day after those long runs. So right now, if you're ready for better sleep, less stress, you can go to CB Distillery. And right now, save 25% off your entire purchase. 25% tariff free, baby. CB Distillery. Go to CB Distillery and use code Mark. And that's Mark with a K, in case you don't know how Halpern spells his name. It's CB Distillery. Use promo code, go to CB distillery.com, use code mark. 25% off. And just send us a little note in the chat that says thank you later.
- [36:19]
C
One of the great smooth segues I've ever seen. Well done, well done. All right, just, just the last topic here on a lighthearted note. At least for me, it's lighthearted. Joe Biden today, there was a story in the Wall Street Journal. Sorry, yes, yes. 113. As Mark has been saying here for the last several months, wasn't Spidey sense. It was reporting Joe Biden's a little hard up for cash and seems to be frustrated. He's got. I was not aware of how much debt he's carrying, both to buy the beach house in Rehoboth. It also sounds like he wants to continue to help, not just his children, one of whom just got divorced, but also his grandchildren. And people are not quite paying what they thought or asking as much as they thought for him to come speak. Sean, you've been around presidents as they've left office. Any thoughts on Joe Biden's struggles here.
- [37:15]
B
So I will say this. Number one, I am a student of history. Right. I love going to these museums and stuff and I actually feel bad and I'm being serious that I cannot believe that this is potential. I mean he's, he's going to get like a food truck for a presidential library if he's not careful. Because this is huh.
- [37:36]
C
A P.O. box.
- [37:37]
B
Yeah, but this is, this is, I mean the, the idea of how quick this has turned has been pretty unbelievable. And I would tell you that it's, I get he's trying to look after his family but the idea that they didn't think ahead is.
- [37:52]
C
I think he may be the first president to not ever have a library really built. Well, I think, I think it's entirely possible that happen happens.
- [37:58]
B
I, I think that what happened Upenn would set up something like convert the, the bookstore or something. Somebody will have to do something. I'm being serious.
- [38:07]
C
The story says Penn doesn't want it. That Penn was.
- [38:09]
B
The University of Delaware will or they'll be like an impact car that will be retrofit or something.
- [38:15]
C
Fascinating idea. All right.
- [38:17]
B
But they got it. I mean like that's, that's, that's, that tells you how quick you can fall. But I, I will say, you know, his running mate's not doing much better either. If you want to go to 114, mark your calendars folks. He's going up against a big Monday night game. I think even Dougie's going to turn into the NFL for this. But Maddow is going to sit down with. Yep. That hard hitting interview with Rachel Maddow. She's going to go head to head with Monday Night Football next Monday.
- [38:48]
C
I'll say one thing about this that I think is going to be really fascinating. You're going to have had that funeral service on Sunday and this will be, I mean I don't know you know if a 2028 or others will come out before then, but she may be the first prominent Democrat to speak in a platform, you know, after that funeral. So if she is still considering running for president and I my understanding she very much wants to try to make this happen. It'll be interesting to see what tone she takes. I am sure she may be asked about her language that she used and the.
- [39:21]
B
You think Nado's going to ask her?
- [39:24]
C
Well, yeah, I actually do.
- [39:26]
B
I think she'll ask her but she's not going to have any sense of responsibility for this. I mean like she will punt and Move on.
- [39:34]
C
And just one thing I want to add because I forgot a brain fart here. Josh Shapiro is speaking today. He's going to give a speech in Pennsylvania. He's going to talk about this. He's going to talk about kind of the trying to come together. I'll be curious. I think it's the first 20, 28 or others have put out statements on X or written statements and kind of been quiet. This is gonna be the first person to step forward and what he has to say, how he says it. You got Obama also speaking tonight. I'll be very curious and curious. Hold on, Sean. How the left reacts to this message of we need to tone it down. We need to find common ground. Because right now neither party in their base is talking much about common ground and getting along. And I'll be curious.
- [40:21]
B
I thought. I'm glad you brought that up because when I saw at least some of the excerpts of what he's supposed to say personally, I think this is an opportunity for him to say it's not because again, this is where saying turn it down misses the mark. You're equivocating both sides. If he could say when we see. Here's what I want Josh Shapiro to say. If you're a conservative, I welcome you coming to UPenn. I will actually attend your talk. I want to welcome alternative voices and, and conservative voices to institutions like this. If Josh Shapiro said that, he would get accolades coming around and saying, we all need to take the temperature down. Because when I went to UPENN and got attacked, I don't remember a single Democratic leader ever saying at any level, hey, we need to have open dialogue. So he could do a lot if he actually thought about doing that. And the one last thing I'd say that's been missing in this entire discussion, the media is so quick to ask everyone else what their role is. They've never looked at their own. The Chuck Todds and Mike Allen's and everyone at Politico and CNN have a responsibility to look at themselves. Brian Stetler will write about everybody else's role in violence except his own. And I think there's a moment at which the media needs a bit of introspection here, too, and say, what have we done to fan the flames of this violence of shutting out and censoring people on the right because they've been largely responsible for it.
- [41:46]
C
Yeah. So we will see. All right, it's 9:40 here. Let's get to your questions. First up. His hand is almost always up first. Every Day he comes on here. Professor Kenny, let's bring you in here. Tell everyone who doesn't know where you are and what's on your mind today. Oh, hold on. Is he unmuted?
- [42:15]
B
I think he is.
- [42:16]
F
There you go. Thanks, guys. Great show today. Good job. I'm in New Jersey today. I'll be teaching my class in Staten island tonight. I'm going to try and rush through this. I don't know if you guys saw it, but there was a young student at Texas Tech University over the weekend who confronted a Charlie Kirk supporter after Charlie was murdered. And she, her behavior was really inexcusable, but she got arrested. And the Washington Post is trying to treat it as a free speech debate when the truth was she got arrested because she assaulted the guy. She hit him in the head, knocking his MAGA hat off. And you know, 18 year old kid. What, what I wanted to ask is I was thinking about Charlie Kirk and I wondered if Charlie Kirk was not assassinated, but let's say they caught this kid on the roof with the gun before it happened. Do you think Sean, and Sean, by the way, I'm very sorry about Charlie's death. I know that affected you and Dan, I'm sorry that you had to take a lot of the brunt of what was going on. And I sent you a private message on Substack. But Sean, do you think Charlie would talk to that kid after the list that it caught him and he didn't shoot Charlie? You know, I'm saying, do you think Charlie would take the time to try and speak to him, to try and reason with him and find out what his deal was and try and come to an understanding? Because I think that's what's missing in our whole thing here is. And by the way, to me, this is a Covid killing. Alex, you know, that's kids who were, you know, locked up during COVID and now they're in their 20s and they're totally lost and they don't know what they're doing. So that's my question.
- [44:02]
C
Thanks, Professor Kenny.
- [44:04]
B
So first of all, thank you for that and I appreciate all of your longtime support. I know Dan and I and Mark always talk about your steadfast commitment to the program and I appreciate it.
- [44:13]
C
Thank you.
- [44:15]
B
And I say so first of all, it's a great question. So please. So I'm going to say the following. Please don't take. Is that one of the things I always find challenging is when people say what would so and so who's passed say? I think it's very irresponsible for me or anybody to say, here's what Charlie would say. Here's what anybody, you know, who would. That would. Because I just, you know, you never know.
- [44:36]
C
Fair enough.
- [44:37]
B
Being said, all of the clips that I've seen in the last thing and including private messages that have been revealed, the faith that. That Charlie lived in, talking about what Jesus would want to do, how to be better, and the way that Erica Kirk spoke so eloquently. I've got to believe that Charlie Kirk is the kind of person that would say, I want to forgive somebody and find that common ground. I want to talk to them and reason with them and find out why they have this hate in their heart and at least come to an understanding with them that we can disagree but have a thing. His. His mantra over and over again is when the dialogue ends is when we turn to violence. He welcomed and encouraged that kind of dialogue. So as a. Again, I would never want to speak for Charlie, but everything that I've seen publicly and privately about how he lived his life and the faith that he had in Jesus and what that message was, that I've got to believe that he would welcome the opportunity to talk to somebody and try to understand what's in their heart and why it was hardened and why they wanted to act and get them to a better place.
- [45:48]
C
Place.
- [45:49]
F
Yeah, I believe that, too. Thank you, guys.
- [45:52]
C
Thanks. Thanks, Professor Kenny. Chris. Chris. L. Come on. Sorry if I woke you up. Chris. Oh, let's see if we can unmute. Unmute. Chris here.
- [46:09]
G
Thanks, guys.
- [46:10]
C
Yeah.
- [46:10]
G
Hey, guys. How are you?
- [46:11]
C
Good.
- [46:12]
G
Well, I've heard a lot of great topics. Thanks for having me on. I'm in Connecticut. I am. What? I've kind of changed a lot politically over the last few years. I was head of the Young Republicans at my high school and college. I worked on the Romney and McCain campaigns. But after January 6th, I kind of left the Republican Party. So I just kind of want to preface sort of where I am, and I want to try to say this. The Charlie Kirk assassination was a horrible thing to have happen to the country for so many reasons. Political violence is never, ever, ever justified. But the point that I do want to make is I think we have to separate two types of reactions that I think a lot of people, mainly friends of mine on the right, are not gonna like. The one that is absolutely abhorrent and horrible is the celebration of the death. He deserves this. You know, I'm glad he's dead. That's. That's just disgusting. And, but what worried me a lot about what J.D. vance was talking about yesterday is that we're targeting, you know, stuff like George Soros. And I'm not sure that's really, that vindictive nature is in the right spirit of unity. I, I think I, I, Candidly, Charlie Kirk, I'll say this right now, is one of the reasons why I left this version of the Republican Party. I did not like the things he.
- [48:01]
C
Said.
- [48:03]
G
About trans people, minorities, numerous views that I had that said he had a family, he did not deserve to die. And that's why this, this death. And, and, you know, I would say the same about the Melissa Hordman assassination, Josh Shapiro's house being lit on fire. The, the, the plague of political violence in this country has been horrible. But is it a valid point, in your view, to say, well, I don't need to lionize him because I don't agree with the way he lived and I objectively didn't. Don't agree with who he was as a person for many reasons, I'm not going to lionize him. That said, his death is a tragedy, and I want to make that very clear. Anyway, that's, that's kind of a nuance that I think we're missing in some, some respects where, yes, like, you can't, celebrating his death is an awful thing. I think, I think, I think it's okay to say, you know, I didn't, I don't think he was a good person. But, but his death is unacceptable. And what happened to him, the way he died and, and all that is completely unacceptable. So I don't need to attend a memorial for him or hold a visual like they were criticizing Democrats for not going to the, the vigil for him. I don't think they have to go to a vigil for him. Look, I'll just say, that's all I'm gonna say.
- [49:36]
B
First of all, I appreciate you coming on. I, I, I'll agree with you. I, as I said, you have a right. No one should force you to, to believe something that you don't or to support anybody or attend something, because our First Amendment isn't just about speech. It's a freedom of assembly, of free, some freedom of religion. I hated when people said you should go to the White House Correspondents Dinner. The organization is horrible. Why would I go to a dinner of a group that I don't think so you have a freedom of assembly as well as a freedom of speech. Go where you want, don't go where you want. That's the beauty of America. I'll defend your right to do any of that stuff. And I think you articulated well. I disagree with you, but you have a right to go where you want, to say what you want, and to handle it in the respectful way that you did. And I think that you're handling this correctly. Again, I don't agree with your assessment of Charlie, but I respect your right to disagree. And again, if you're a member of Congress and you don't want to go to an event. But I think one of the things that I would respectfully say to you is this is the dynamic at play for us on the right, where we have been criticized for decades for not attending something, for not showing this, and this is the first time that we've ever felt like we've been on the side that is the high ground, if that's appropriate. I don't know to say that after someone was killed. But what the vice president was talking about yesterday, it's hard to have unity with people who literally are openly talking about hating you. And I think that that's the cop out that I.
- [51:22]
G
You don't think there's the degree of extremism on both sides, Sean?
- [51:26]
B
Yeah, I mean, there is, but see.
- [51:28]
C
This is the problem.
- [51:29]
B
And again, this is what noise. And I apologize because I'm not. It's when people say both sides, it's like there was an act of violence here and there's an act of violence here. So everybody's equal. No, that's just not how it happened. We have been censored, canceled, shut out of the conversation for decades. And part of the reason that Charlie was doing what he did was because we're not allowed on college campuses. And so the idea that somehow that it's equal is just not fair. All of these folks in the media who've literally canceled out any voice on the right who have dismissed the existence of people with alternative views suddenly saying, take the temperature down. I'm sorry, it's just if you like I said go. Just listen to what the vice president said yesterday at the last 13 minutes of that. It's an understanding of the mindset. At the very least, you understand the mindset of why we, so many of us feel so passionately about this.
- [52:30]
C
And I think, Chris, first off, thank you for coming on, because you do speak for tens of millions. I mean, Mark says this, and it's been the most. The voices right now getting the most coverage are the tens of millions in mourning for Charlie. But there are tens of millions of People, Charlie Crook was not their cup of tea. Right. And coming on here and saying that is hard in this environment. So thank you for coming on. I think that it is. You're right. You can say it's terrible. And anyone who celebrated, who says somebody deserved this, they got what they had coming, deserves criticism and losing their jobs or whatever. The public marketplace is speaking on that. And I think appropriately so, I think that where people are saying, hey, I don't like, or I did not like Charlie Couric, I didn't like some of the things he talked about, and I don't like Donald Trump, as Sean said, that's part of our politics. Right. You disagree. You're talking about substance of things that, you know, were being debated. I think that what is different now is what is being talked about is the tip of the spear, not the kind of herd of the media and public opinion. It is now turning the government loose to come after people, which is a line that is new here a little bit. And I think, Sean, it is hard to hear J.D. vance and other people say, well, they hate, but we don't hate, when the next sentence for a lot of people are, the lunatic radical left is destroying America. I mean, it's just beating the drum of why they're awful people on policy, not on, not on the assassination. But even the president pivots to just every, you know, the policy drum of why these people are outrageous and they're going to destroy your country. To Democrats, they hear that as they hate me. Yes, but, but, but look, but you can't say one hate speech. But our hate speech is not good for two things.
- [54:43]
B
One, as I've said, you guys are for the first time hearing what we've heard for our whole lives.
- [54:49]
C
I hear you.
- [54:49]
B
I went through college, as I said yesterday in 1993, my college commencement speaker was canceled because they didn't like his position on something. Okay, so this isn't some new thing for those of us on the right. The second thing is, as I noted yesterday, and again, this isn't one poll, and it wasn't this year. Over and over again, young people in particular on the left believe that violence and even assassination is an acceptable outcome.
- [55:16]
C
But the right has the same thing under Biden on the right.
- [55:19]
B
That's is not true.
- [55:22]
G
Yeah, but, Sean, this is how I was head of the Young Republicans at a place called Cho. And Karl Rove was supposed to be our commencement speaker back in 2008. If you look this up, you'll notice several quotes from me at the Time people had uproar. They didn't want Karl Rove coming to speak as our commencement speaker that year. And I remember discussing this with the school, and Karl Rove did end up coming to speak. And what did Karl Rove do? He did not complain. He did not say, well, they're trying to cancel me. They're this. He had a discussion. And I actually think he won over a lot of people. I was on campus as a Republican. I'm more traditional conservative, not really this populist version of the Republican Party, you know, the tariff deportation Republican Party. I'm more the traditional, you know, low taxes, less government Republican Party. But, but, but not here nor there. I just think when you use the word they a lot. They killed him. They all killed him. Why would I talk. I saw Ben Dominic say, why would I talk to someone who wants to kill me? You know, that's, that's a very small percentage. And I don't know that that percentage is any different on one side or the other. Well, but, Sean, I don't think so.
- [56:40]
C
You referencing surveys, but you're not acknowledging that surveys under. When Joe Biden was president, after January.
- [56:48]
B
These all were done under Joe Biden.
- [56:50]
C
The last, when after January 6, there were all these surveys about is violence appropriate in some political instances? And it was like 60% of the Republican Party said yes. Now, I hear you that on the left. But Chris, I agree with you. What is happening is. And look, Rahm Emanuel had me ask you a question. Wait, hold on a second. Rahm Emanuel, one of the great phrases ever, never let a crisis go to waste. So you try to take a very, what I believe is a very small fraction of our base. That is crazy. And I think Several Republicans, even J.D. vance, said our base has crazies. Right? He did. And you try to paint the entire party as monolithic. They're all plotting these deep state assassinations. So we'll see if George Soros and the Open Society, we're going to find out. Right. But I do agree with you. I think they are. They. Look, Sean, where we tried to cancel you, we paid a huge political price. The last, the last election, how many people came on and said, I grew tired of lawfare? You guys are talking about lawfare now or government fare. I mean, say what you want, but.
- [58:06]
B
That'S either one of you after people two on one here. Can you name a single Democrat ever, ever canceled from any campus by the right, not by their own party.
- [58:18]
C
The cancellation's all happening now. I hear that.
- [58:21]
B
Hold on, hold on. Just answer the question. Can you name a single Democrat ever canceled from any campus in the United States of America ever?
- [58:30]
G
Yeah, you can. I mean, it's the more extreme example. It's Jeremiah Wright. It's, you know, it's certainly the, the more extreme types of people.
- [58:42]
B
I don't, I didn't know that. Jeremiah Wright.
- [58:44]
G
Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was, he was, he was canceled on numerous. It exists for sure.
- [58:51]
B
Obviously do.
- [58:52]
G
I agree with you, Sean, though, by the way, that academia has trended left and that. And that there could be more voices from the right. Like. Of course I do, but I don't think that's really a valid. I mean, just like you could say that in, in professional sports, voices on the left aren't. I think that's just a, that's, that's more of a product of the career path. I don't think that's something to really like.
- [59:14]
C
Chris, thank you for, for coming out.
- [59:16]
G
I would like more conservative, but they don't.
- [59:21]
C
You speak for tens of millions in.
- [59:23]
B
Industry after industry, academia. You just mentioned professional sports. Hollywood, the media, government, corporate America. There's not one institution, one instance where it goes in the direction of right.
- [59:37]
G
Canceling the professional sports is way to the right. He's comfortably Major league baseball. You'd be, you wouldn't be able to field it.
- [59:45]
C
May not be wrong on that, Shawn, of the big four sports.
- [59:48]
B
Okay, again, I can't say baseball. If you ever look, if you look at an end zone in the NFL, there's that. The, the point is, is that there aren't any institutions where the right gets favored. They all go in one direction and they all have for a very, very long time. And so again, this idea of both sides ism just. It does not hold water well.
- [60:10]
C
But I mean, again, this is two different issues now starting to get conflated. But, but Chris, we gotta go. We're almost at time. Thank you, Chris.
- [60:17]
G
Thanks a lot, guys. Really appreciate it.
- [60:19]
C
I grew up near Choate, so I know that area well. Sean, what do you have Coming up tonight?
- [60:24]
B
It's Senator times two. We've got a bunch of legal eagles. Senator Ted Cruz of Texas, obviously well known for his legal prowess, and then Senator Eric Schmidt, former Attorney General of Missouri, both going to be on there. Obviously The President mentioned St. Louis as a potential next target. So we're going to talk about a lot of Charlie Kirk, a lot of the law, obviously what's going on with the assailant today as well. So this is great lineup. Big lineup.
- [60:52]
C
All right. Nice, nice. All Right. When in addition to watching SEAN tonight on Two Way, tonight at 6pm Mark will be back. He'll be joined by Elena Johnson, the editor of the Free Beacon, and Jimmy Hart, the former president of the Metal Trades of the AFL cio. That'll be an interesting combination, a great conversation, I'm sure. And then at 7pm tonight on Two Way, Michael Moynihan will be joined by Mary Kathryn Ham, who I have been on TV with before. A great she'll be a great guest and she's the host of Getting Hammered and normally Podcast. Those are two interesting titles. And they'll be discussing the media coverage of Charlie Kirk and the history of political violence in our country. Also, next up will drop, I believe Mark is going to have more coverage and discussion about the Charlie Kirk assassination. So look for that this afternoon. And again, if you want to invest, you want to join the it's getting crowded, but we still have more room. And of course money talks. So you know, just the highest bidder. Come on in. But you can sponsor two way the morning meeting. So please email sponsorso way tv. We would love to have a conversation. Mark will be back tomorrow. Your nightmare of just Sean and myself will be over.
- [62:12]
B
Apparently he figured out that the password to get in his password.
- [62:15]
C
Ah, yes, yes.
- [62:17]
B
I told you that wasn't going to hold, Dan.
- [62:19]
C
He missed the exclamation point at the end. John, thank you for today. Thank you everyone for joining and we will see you tomorrow 9am Have a great day.