Charlie Kirk's Murder: Democrats Accused of "Hypocrisy" for Denouncing "Canceling" of Kirk's Critics

Summary

2WAY Morning Meeting — Episode Summary

Episode Title: Charlie Kirk's Murder: Democrats Accused of "Hypocrisy" for Denouncing "Canceling" of Kirk's Critics
Date: September 15, 2025
Hosts: Mark Halperin (Moderator), Sean Spicer (Conservative Commentator), Dan Turrentine (Democratic Strategist)
Main Theme:
This episode centers around the fallout from Charlie Kirk’s murder, highlighting partisan reactions, perceived hypocrisy around "cancel culture," and deep societal divides. The hosts discuss the investigation, political implications, and the emotional resonance of Kirk’s death on both individuals and the political landscape. There is extended reflection on the role of social media, political violence, and the climate of public discourse. Listeners participate, emphasizing Kirk’s role in building a community and empowering conservatives, especially the young and previously disengaged.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Setting the Stage: Emotional and Political Backdrop

• The episode opens with reflections on an emotional weekend following Charlie Kirk's murder.
• The hosts aim to be forward-looking, focusing on practical ideas for lowering the national temperature rather than rehashing past grievances or solely blaming "both sides."
• Reminder that this is a community-based conversation, inviting listener participation.
  (06:02)

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2. Rapid News Roundup

(Segments run from 07:18–15:53)

• The panel quickly updates listeners on other major political developments:
  • President’s schedule, including meetings with world leaders and forthcoming memorial for Charlie Kirk.
  • Ongoing TikTok negotiations with China; hosts express skepticism on substance versus optics.
    • Dan: “I’ll be curious if there’s a TikTok deal or the president just announcing another 90-day extension which he may classify as a deal.” (11:12)
  • Israel–US tensions over Israeli military actions; panel notes both crisis and resilience in the alliance.
  • Upcoming potential US government shutdown—both hosts expect a short-term budget stopgap but foresee more division.
  • Brief discussion of Fed Board appointments and interest rate expectations.

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3. The Charlie Kirk Case and Its Cultural Aftershocks

(Start: 15:53)

a. New Revelations and Political Reactions

• Investigation updates: Reports suggest DNA links the main suspect, and the relationship with a transitioning roommate may have influenced motive.
  • Mark: “If it’s demonstrated that that relationship was part of his motivation, what happens?” (16:57)
• Critique of official statements: Some hosts, especially Mark, criticize Utah’s governor for inappropriately discussing ongoing investigations.

b. The Debate Over the Left, the Right, and Political Violence

(17:55–24:53)

• Sean argues that right-wing grievances about media and "cancel culture" are regularly dismissed, especially topics like trans issues.
  • Sean: “If it bears out... it will definitely give credence to a lot of the concerns that the right has been bringing up... We can’t talk about certain issues.” (17:55)
• Mark articulates a MAGA belief that violence is often covered up when linked to trans or leftwing individuals, whereas violence from the right is heavily politicized.
  • Mark: “There are people in MAGA who believe that trans culture… is violent… and is using violence to get it. That’s a strong belief amongst many in MAGA…” (17:55)
• Dan disputes broad claims of violence in the trans community, highlighting a lack of evidence for systemic problems.
  • Dan: “I don’t know of other instances of trans people lashing out like that. Perhaps there are some. I don’t know.” (18:43)

c. Both Sides-ism and Partisan “Hypocrisy”

(22:14–24:53)

• Sean asserts studies show widespread support for “assassination culture” and use of violence among the left, citing prominent Democrats’ incendiary language.
  • Sean: “Survey after survey shows that the left believes it is acceptable to use violence and yes, even assassinate their opponents.” (21:00)
• Mark and Dan note that both sides are guilty of failing to strongly denounce violence or over-the-line rhetoric and that taking the moral high ground is being eclipsed by partisan outcomes.
  • Dan: “Left has to hold the mirror up on that front.” (23:59)
  • Mark: “For one, our hands are clean? …It is not gonna solve America’s problems.” (23:29)

d. Listeners’ Emotional Responses and Requests

(35:59–50:14)

• Listeners (Dylan, Nadine, Daniel, Mang) share perspectives:
  • Dylan: Speaks to the existential threat felt by many conservatives and the symbolic loss Charlie Kirk represented as a figure of free speech.
    • Dylan: “When they watched him get gunned down… He was, I think, a symbol of free speech to them.” (36:20)
  • Nadine: Highlights how Kirk empowered even older conservatives to feel confident about participating, not just young people.
  • Daniel: Raises concerns about the role of social media in enabling and amplifying extremism and violence.
    • Daniel: “How will this inform policy moving forward or should it inform… policy moving forward for the social media companies…seem to foment extremism for profit?” (51:33)
  • Mang: Points to the surprising and disturbing reactions from professionals celebrating Kirk’s death.

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4. Social Media: Enabler or Accelerator of Extremism?

(51:33–54:48)

• Sean and Dan agree platforms are pushing users toward outrage and radicalization, especially among young men.
  • Sean: “What they are doing is wrong. I wish we spent more time discussing it and… the dangers of it.” (51:35)
  • Dan: “The dark corners of the Internet are just that. They’re dark corners.” (52:40)
• Mark expresses skepticism that major regulatory action is likely, given the power and sophistication of the tech lobby.
  • Mark: “It is the mismatch between the Congress’s level of understanding… and their courage to take it on, versus the sophistication of the lobbyists. It’s David vs. Goliath.” (54:02)

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5. The Political Fallout: Energizing the Right

(26:06–31:32)

• Hosts discuss how Kirk’s murder (and reactions to it) may be a turning point, energizing rightwing and conservative voters, potentially affecting the 2026 midterms and even specific state elections like Virginia.
  • Sean: “They’ve had 900 chapters. They’ve had requests for like 3200, and that’s high schools and colleges in the past 72 hours. …That is a massive swing.” (28:01)
• Mark predicts increased influence for J.D. Vance in the GOP as a result.
• Both hosts note a hardening “arms race” around political donations, activism, subpoenas, and increasing inter-party hostility.
  • Mark: “The purpose of it’s going to be to bankrupt the Democratic left.” (32:38)

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6. The Cruelty and Stupefaction of “Cancel Culture”

(57:10–59:16)

• The panel expresses shock at the number of professionals gleefully celebrating Kirk’s death on social media.
  • Mark: “The cruelty of this stuns me. Really does.” (57:10)
• Debate over the distinction between free speech and algorithm-driven manipulation and radicalization.

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• Sean Spicer:
  • “It will definitely give credence to a lot of the concerns that the right has been bringing up… We can’t talk about certain issues. … It will feed and fester the problems and the anger that exists on the right.” (17:55)
  • “[The left] literally doesn’t accept that there’s a rational understanding of the right… The folks on the left looked at the people on the right and say, ‘We don’t even think that you’re normal.’” (43:30)
  • “Never in my life have I seen somebody … the impact that that guy had [Charlie Kirk] to your point on young, old… it shows you what an impact this individual had.” (49:44)
• Dan Turrentine:
  • “I don’t know of other instances of trans people lashing out like that. …I imagine it’s going to remain part of our politics here for the foreseeable future.” (18:43)
  • “The left still, 12 years later, does not hear MAGA. ... They cannot hear what they have to say and it pains me to say it, they don’t respect MAGA. …I agree with you and have been clear that the party should not call Trump, Hitler should not say he’s a fascist. One, it’s bad politics. Two, it’s just not true.” (40:36)
  • “The dark corners of the Internet are just that. They're dark corners. It's every parent's nightmare about what their kids could find.” (52:40)
• Mark Halperin:
  • “There are people in MAGA who believe that trans culture… is violent… and is using violence to get it.” (17:55)
  • “If you haven’t read David French’s column, the New York Times, I recommend it to you.” (26:06)
  • “The cruelty of this stuns me. Really does.” (57:10)

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Memorable Moments & Listener Voices

• Dylan (North Carolina):
  • “When they watched [Charlie] get gunned down… He was, I think, a symbol of free speech to them. … I plead that you make your stance clear and you stand up for morality. … If you don’t make that distinction, it won’t be made for you...” (36:20–40:18)
• Nadine (North Carolina):
  • “What Charlie did for people was he inspired them to do their small part… He gave a tool that made it easy for people to do a little bit.” (47:13–49:04)
• Mark on celebratory reactions: “After 36 hours, I was proved wrong, and I said I was naive. … The most stunning thing I can remember in my career. The number of, as you said, doctors, pilots, teachers, celebrating the death of this man … It is emotionally draining for me to think about that’s what America is.” (57:10)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Timestamps | |--------------------------------------------------------------|------------------| | Housekeeping and show format; sponsor mentions | 00:33–06:02 | | Political roundup (President’s week, foreign policy, Fed) | 07:18–15:53 | | The Charlie Kirk Murder: investigation and political fallout | 15:53–24:53 | | Cultural/political debate on violence, cancel culture | 18:43–24:53 | | Listener Dylan on symbolism of Kirk’s death | 35:59–40:18 | | Social media & extremism (Daniel’s question) | 51:33–54:53 | | Shocking public reactions to Kirk’s death | 57:10–59:13 | | Closing and preview of upcoming episodes | 59:13–61:45 |

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Episode Takeaways

• Charlie Kirk’s murder is seen on the right as both personal tragedy and a symbolic attack on free political expression.
• Widespread frustration at perceived left-wing “hypocrisy” – being upset about canceling only when it affects their own.
• Worries that political violence, “cancel culture,” and online radicalization are mainstreaming broader social division.
• Listeners articulate that Kirk inspired engagement and courage among conservatives of all ages.
• The right believes this could be a catalytic moment, likened to Dobbs for the left, potentially shifting electoral energy.
• There is bipartisan agreement that social media companies are not sufficiently accountable and current regulation is inadequate.
• A sense of despair about the increasing cruelty and public celebration of tragic violent events, and about the difficulty of lowering the wider country’s temperature.

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Tone and Atmosphere

The episode is emotionally laden, reflective, occasionally combative, but strives for honest engagement and a recognition of the legitimacy of emotional wounds across the political spectrum. The panel attempts to model “dialogue first,” but repeatedly acknowledges the immense challenge of overcoming partisan divides in the aftermath of polarizing violence. Listener contributions are personal, thoughtful, and indicative of Kirk’s unifying effect for many conservatives.

Transcript

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[Mark]

This is the morning meeting. Dan, Sean and I are happy to see you after a weekend of a lot of emotion. And after a week of a lot of emotion, we're glad you're here. This will be a different kind of episode for a variety of reasons. First of all, we have a new sponsor we here to tell you about. Second, the President on Truth Social, every few seconds is raising a new topic and making news, including saying there's a TikTok deal. So we're going to have to run through that and if he keeps going, we'll have to keep doing that. And of course we know a lot of you want to talk about Charlie, Kirk and what's ahead. We'll be forward looking as we always are. We'll take questions from those of you here on the two way platform. Please raise your hand if you'd like to be in the conversation. As always, we welcome those who have raised their hands and spoken before and new people. And if you're watching on x or on YouTube, I happen to know, even though I don't read the chat, that our chat last week was filled with smack. Please don't do that. Please don't put smack in the chat. Now more than ever, I know now more than ever, it will fall on deaf ears. Sean, Sean, what does your week ahead look like? What does the spicer week ahead look like?

[Sean]

I've got a bunch of projects that I'm dealing with, obviously monitoring Charlie's services. So full steam ahead. A lot of guests.

[Mark]

Dan.

[Dan]

Very busy week in our house. Kids are back in school and as John said, monitoring politics and trying to get my body healthy to run the marathon, which are aches and pains here.

[Mark]

Which, which marathon are you running?

[Dan]

I'm going to keep that to myself here.

[Mark]

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[Sean]

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[Mark]

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[Dan]

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[Sean]

Fun fact, Dan. I own more golf shirts than I've ever played rounds of golf. So just, you know.

[Dan]

And I'll give the highest compliment. Our teenage kids think they're cool and want them. So forget what I think.

[Mark]

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[Mark]

All right, let's go guys. Lots to get through. We're going to get to Charlie Kirk and we're going to be forward looking here. We're not going to litigate going back to the Peloponnesian wars or to the Bork hearings or to January six. We're going to be forward looking and we're going to try to continue to be leaders on ways to bring the country together. I'm all for rhetoric, that's saying lower the temperature. Both sides did it. That won't solve the problem. So we'll be looking for ways to practical things people can actually do to help deal with this. But before we get to Charlie, we're just going to speed through some other topics because there's lots of news. We talked before the program. You know, if this were a morning meeting at a television network, we wouldn't have the luxury of spending the entire meeting on one topic because we gotta cover everything else out there in the world. And we know many of you would like to just talk about Charlie, but let's run through the daybook and then we'll run through a bunch of topics. And again, eager to have your voices and if you want to talk about something else, you can, but we're going to talk. I expect the most you want to talk about Charlie Kirk. As you know, this program is available as a podcast too. So you might want to look at. Listen to it there. Recommend that to others. The President today, as we said on Truth Social, we'll get to all of that in a second. But he does have a few events today. Four o', clock, That's a seven o'. Clock. Am I looking at the wrong schedule? Yes, very strange.

[Sean]

I thought that was a 4:00 clock signing.

[Mark]

Yeah, I think that's wrong, guys. I'm not sure what those times are about. 2 o' clock he's got a bilateral meeting with the economical patriarch Bartholomew and then at 4 o' clock he signs a presidential memorandum. As far as I know, it's not publicly known yet what that is about, but take that down because those times are on 2 o' clock and 4 o' clock. @ this point, no public events for the President. At noon, the Vice President is guest hosting Charlie's show and that will draw an enormous audience. We'll talk about the size of the audience of all things related to Charlie, but that will be quite something. I don't know if he's doing two hours or how long, but believe he's doing two hours. Marco Rubio is in Israel. It's been reported by a few news organizations that he's headed to Doha after Israel. The meetings in Israel publicly were very. With Netanyahu, were very friendly. They went to the Wall together. But again, there's reporting that suggests behind the scenes there is some tension. Scott Bessant continues in Spain meeting with the Chinese. The President announced a little while ago that there's a TikTok deal. We'll talk about that. Those meetings in theory were going to continue, but they now seem to be over. And the President said on Social this morning he's going to call the President of China, the Premier, the strongman, the dictator, the butcher on Friday. I'm not sure why he's forecasting a call that far in advance, but whatever House and Senator in, they're considering nominations in the Senate cloture vote to try to get Steve Mirren on the Fed board in time for tomorrow's meeting. They may vote on that late tonight. All right, let's talk about a bunch of stuff again real quick. President goes to England tomorrow. Scott Besant's meeting him there. A bunch of other senior officials are going to lots of security, lots of no expectation. There's a press. There'll be a press conference with the leaders. Because of Epstein, perhaps, who knows? But Sean, what are you looking for from the President this week? Primarily.

[Sean]

It'S actually a great question Because I was thinking about that, him heading off to the uk, all this other stuff going on in Israel and Russia and obviously there's not a big hefty policy thing going on in the uk. It's all pomp and circumstance. So what I'm looking for is what breaks through the noise because he wants to focus on the pomp and circumstance of going over the uk. So what distracts that focus is what I'm trying to figure out.

[Mark]

Yeah. And of course, on Sunday he'll be in Phoenix for the memorial service for Charlie Kirk at a giant football stadium. Dan, what are you focused on for the President's week?

[Dan]

Same thing, just he loves the pomp and circumstance. I don't think it gets any bigger than the King and Queen or the King of, of England. And to Sean's point, there's a lot going on domestically. And does any of that break through or do. Does the national attention start to drift a little bit? It'll obviously come back next Sunday. But how does the week play out?

[Mark]

All right, let's put up the President's Truth Social post on China, please. This is the President clearly in communication with his advisers who are in Spain for these meetings. Here's what the President put on Truth Social this morning. A big trade meeting in Europe between the US and China has gone very well. It will be concluding shortly. A deal was also reached on a certain company that young people in our country very much wanted to save. They will be very happy. I'll be speaking to President Xi on Friday. The relationship remains a very strong one. President djt The Journal reported this morning that the Chinese are putting a high priority on getting the President to have a summit, a bilateral summit in China that could be more controlled than meeting on the sidelines of a group meeting in Asia. And, and that they wanted in China as a sign of respect and that they were willing to do stuff in return for that. Up until the President's announcement, most of the reporting suggested that it would be hard to get a tick tock deal because the Chinese were still balking at some bottom line demands of the US and of course there's fentanyl issues, there's other trade issues, technological issues, etc. Dan, where do you think we are on the U.S. china and TikTok in particular with the deadline on Wednesday?

[Dan]

Well, the Journal story actually said that China is not giving what we want in exchange for that. And that's part of the rub. They want Trump to come, but they're not willing to kind of give goodies and we want something to be able to announce. We want deliverables, as they like to say. I'll be curious if there's a TikTok deal or the president just announcing another 90 day extension which he may classify as a deal. So I think it's the great mystery. What if he'll get together with China but not get anything out of it?

[Sean]

Sean, look, I think if we rewind the tape, I've been saying this for a while, there's going to be a meeting in China. I assumed it would happen a lot earlier, but I think circumstances have prevented that. So the reason I say that isn't to just try to go back for the record, but because I think President Trump wants to go there. He knows the level of pomp and circumstance that Saudi and he'll see in the UK or will definitely exist in China for him. And I think he wants to do that. I will, like Dan said, be very interested. The devil's going to be in the detail on the TikTok deal. Is it just an extension? Is it we agree to partner with them in some way. In my opinion, nothing short of a complete either Chinese cutoff of all things TikTok counts. So the devil's really going to be in the detail on what he announces with respect to that.

[Dan]

And also it's just we're.

[Mark]

He's going to. Sorry, got to move on. Sorry. Enforcing the rules here. Sorry. The president is in Europe, as we said. Hill is very vocal, Lindsey Graham and others about Russia sanctions, secondary sanctions, particularly on the Chinese and the Indians. One word or short phrase each, Sean, is this the week we finally see movement, meaningful movement on Russian sanctions, yes or no?

[Sean]

If, if the Europeans are willing to back it up. I mean, this is where it comes down and we can't be the only ones doing it. Europe buys everything on the secondary market. If they're willing to go first, we'll back it up.

[Mark]

Dan.

[Dan]

No, no change whatsoever.

[Mark]

Okay. Israel, as I said, Secretary Rubio is there. McGurk was on CNN this morning being very negative about what the Israelis did and said it's one thing for a Mossad action but for an open military strike? The president met with Qatar leader over the weekend. Is this, Dan, is this a foreign policy crisis for US And Israeli relations or does the Rubio visit suggest, in fact, you know, they'll work it out?

[Dan]

Both are true. There's a crisis and they'll work it out. And according to the Washington Post, the Mossad didn't want to do that attack, which is wild. That The Israeli government seemed very split on this.

[Mark]

Yeah. Sean, is this a crisis?

[Sean]

I agree with Dan. It's somewhat of a crisis. But I think our relationship is solid enough that it'll overcome it.

[Mark]

Yeah. We could talk for an hour about what's going to happen with the potential government shutdown. The whole thing is just a complete mess. There's all sorts of leading theories. There's no forcing mechanism. I suspect, as we've said, there'll be a short term stopgap and then probably a CR through the middle of the fall would be my current guess. But Sean, where do you think we're headed?

[Sean]

I think the stopgap is definitely where we are. It's harder this week to make Democrats vote now. I mean, like, I think they're going to want to agree on the stopgap. The length of the stopgap is, I think the big question, does it just go to November 20th where then you kick your can down the further or do they try to get it even further down into next year? I think that's going to be the real issue here. Plus, as Dan has brought up this aca, subsidies for the health care is going to be a problem. It's dividing the Republican Party.

[Mark]

Dan.

[Dan]

There'll be a three to five day shutdown. And I can't believe this. Chuck Schumer is digging a ditch for himself again because he won't define what victory is for them. And I cannot believe he's. He's doing this again.

[Sean]

I totally agree. This there is. He is in. He is creating a problem for himself he has no way out of. I agree with you 100 on that.

[Mark]

Yeah. All right, finally, three Fed questions for each of you. It's pronounced Mirin, right? Mirin.

[Sean]

I think he says Mehran, but okay, Mehran.

[Mark]

Let's say Maran. Three questions. Will Mehran be seated in time to vote? Will Cook be seated to vote tomorrow? And is it a half? Is it a quarter or a half? Maran? Cook. Quarter. Half.

[Sean]

Sean Mehran with the light stick in the. No. Mehran, yes. Cook. Yes. Quarter.

[Dan]

Dan, Agree with all three.

[Mark]

I'm going to go for a half just to be different, but I agree. They'll both be seated.

[Sean]

All right, I'd like a half. I don't forget it.

[Dan]

The economy's that bad, is it?

[Mark]

Sean, I'm going for.

[Sean]

I just want lower rates.

[Mark]

I'm going for half. All right, let's talk about Charlie. There's so many different things we can talk about. Cash Patel was on Fox and Friends this morning said that DNA matched this suspect with. With what was found on the towel, the towel that was wrapping the weapon as well as the screwdriver on the roof. I thought the governor of, of Utah, who's being widely hailed as, you know, the savior of America, was completely inappropriate talking about the investigation yesterday. I've never seen such a failure to understand how law enforcement works from a governor trying to be cutesy and helpful. And I know he's getting a lot of praise, so I'm being counter that a little bit. But Sean, what happens next? Tomorrow he's arraigned and there's going to be a big document. If it shows that this is connected to a roommate who was transitioning, how does that impact what happens next? If it's demonstrated that that relationship was part of his motivation, what happens?

[Sean]

I think it's more than the relationship, it's the issue itself. And I think that'll play into again. We've seen all the media folks this weekend question whether or not this matters and this leads and this feeds into the problem that exists right now is that our side is dismissed for bringing up certain issues. So I think it will, it will definitely help the. I shouldn't even say it's not help, but it will definitely give credence to a lot of the concerns that the right has been bringing up. We brought this up with the issue at Annunciation Catholic Church. We were told we shouldn't talk about it. We, we saw it with the Ukrainian woman. We can't talk about certain issues. And again, we saw the same reaction with respect to Charlie that we don't know what the motives are. We can't talk about those motives. And I think that the evidence, if it bears out the way it looks like, is it going to be a. On the right have a problem with these narratives that we can't have certain discussions, we can't talk about certain issues and it will feed and fester the problems and the anger that exists on the right.

[Mark]

Dan, let me talk about an issue. Let me just be more honest about it than. Than I've heard anyone in the media be. There are people in MAGA who believe that trans culture or a strain of trans culture is violent and anti. It's the right word, wants radical change in this country and is using to use violence to get it. That's a strong belief amongst many in MAGA and believe that this has been a story that's been covered up by the left and the media for a long time and that based on what they know that that's what, that's what's at issue here. And that they want to go hard after anything connected to what they consider to be a violent subculture of the trans community and those who support them. What do you think of that and what do you think the Democratic Party's posture should be on that strong belief held by those people?

[Dan]

I don't know of other instances of trans people lashing out like that. Perhaps there are some. I don't know. I mean, obviously this issue has been part of our politics now for the last two years, front and center. And I imagine it's going to remain part of our politics here for the foreseeable future. Again, I don't see examples of the trans community engaging in violence. I know what people in the trans community feel, feel comes the other way a lot. But I would hope that there is not this kind of, we've talked on this show about, I think, the focus on transgender for children and not being kind of of mind yet to make life altering decisions at 12 and 13 and 14, but that when people are adults, they kind of do what they do. You know, I think unfortunately, and I think, Sean, you were kind of alluding to this. It is going to be part of the debate now.

[Sean]

Well, so I would say two. There's two examples right off the top of my head and I'm not. One is Nashville. Two is Catholic Annunciation Church last week in Minnesota. Those are two. I would also argue, Mark, that it's more of a mental health concern. That I mean, there's a belief that within the trans is being given credence as opposed to addresses a mental health issue. But, but if I, if I can, I just, I've never in the, since we've been doing the show gotten more feedback on the issue of like both sides. And I spent a lot of time thinking about it over the weekend. And if I can just one of the things that I, and I apologize to even my own side if I get this wrong, but I'm trying and I'm working through this. But I think what's been missing is when we say both sides, it's, well, there's violence on both sides and that sort of, there's a lot more to this. It's simple to say that the left looks the right and says Paul Pelosi, Whitmer, the Minnesota legislators, whatever. But as I thought about it, it's much deeper than that. There's a lot of aspects that we're not talking about the lead up. And again Apologies if you're offended by this, but I spent a lot of time going this poll after poll, survey after survey shows that the left believes it is acceptable to use violence and yes, even assassinate their opponents. And I can put them all out there cuz I have them all pulled up on my screen. Study after study that leaders condone and don't tamp down anything. Think about Joe Biden saying I want to take you out back and beat you up. Chuck Schumer saying gorsuch, we're gonna come get you. Maxine Waters inciting violence and saying surround the Trump folks and condoning it. And then there's the response. When you think about the response that's happened to a lot of issues that the left perceives as problematic. There's riots, there's violence, there's vandalisms and it's condoned by their very leaders. And you think about just the last three weeks of issues, whether it's what happened to that Ukrainian woman, the Catholic school or the tragedy with Charlie, our side is called to prayer and attributes into tributes. Erica Kirk's response I on Friday night was probably one of the most moving tributes I will ever see in my entire life. The strength, the courage, the faith that that woman exhibited. And there has been no vandalism, no looting, no, no anything since Charlie. There is a difference and it's, and.

[Dan]

It'S deeper than just violence.

[Mark]

Dan's going to respond but, but I'll just add to your list because everything you said was true. I'll add to your list the right. The Democrats can say well leaders haven't cheered Charlie's death but they've not condoned condemned in a full throated way what many on the, on the left have done. And they've now the hypocrisy of Democrats in the media saying how dare there be cancel culture, how dare there be efforts to, to get people fired. The hypocrisy of Mark.

[Sean]

But, but I watched these guys to your point, like Chuck Tod sitting out there. We both need to take the temperature down. You've, he has never once said a damn thing about anything when the right was being canceled the last eight years. And one last thing I'll say on this, for eight years, actually going on 10 if you think about this shooter, he's 22. 20, 20 I guess 22 now. So think about this. Since he's been 12 years old, all that kid has heard in legacy media by educators. I remember my kids when Trump was elected, they had a crying day. You could take the day off. It's a nursery school for goodness sake. We have been told that this side and our leaders pose an existential threat. Brett, you wonder why 12 year olds grow up and become radicalized because they've been told that our side is horrible and bad.

[Mark]

So. So I will say for everything, everything Sean said was true. And I'll say for those of you who say we're done with both sides, okay, Now Dan's gonna tell you why his side has some real grievances. We're not saying they're identical. But it is not gonna solve America's problems. It's not gonna bring the country together. For one, our hands are clean. We have no problems whatsoever. Every problem is so much worse on the other side. Okay, Dan, take as much time as you'd like.

[Dan]

You know, I'm actually not going to. I'll just say I disagree. We're not going to convince each other of this. I hear Sean, I do. The one thing I agree with both you on is it is somewhat comical to hear, hear people say, oh, you're canceling the other. Obviously that's been a part of our politics the last few years. And the left has to hold the mirror up on that front.

[Mark]

But just look, the left and the media, I've never seen the New York.

[Dan]

Times on that one.

[Mark]

I've never seen. Let me just say, I've never seen the New York Times, the Washington Post so upset as they were over the weekend about people being canceled and about people using free speech to call out other behavior that they don't like Dan.

[Dan]

I mean, I just, as I say, I don't agree with some of that stuff. And I think it's not healthy for anyone to talk about destroying the other.

[Mark]

Yeah, gotta move on.

[Sean]

I just, I don't want anyone to walk away, like, thinking it's never acceptable. And that's the bottom line. But the point is that there is a degree this is deep and visceral. And when you see these people to Mark's point in the like, suddenly, now they've reached a boiling point.

[Mark]

And it's, it's deep. It's deep and visceral. It's deep and visceral for the President's disproportionate reaction to what happened in Minnesota. That's deep and visceral. Visceral for people on the left. It's deep and visceral for the President to make fun of Paul Pelosi being attacked. That's also deep and visceral. Not saying they're identical. But I'm saying they're deep and visceral feelings on the other side.

[Dan]

Well, I mean, there are and they're just everyone is so angry and doesn't hear. And I heard it all weekend. Like I heard both sides. In fact, some of the community stopped me in Central park this weekend and I talked to one person for almost an hour who's very pro Trump. And we both agreed people just don't hear each other. And both sides think the only way we will move forward is if the other side is destroyed and stopped.

[Mark]

If you haven't read David, if you haven't read David French's column, the New York Times, I recommend it to you. All right, one more topic, then we're going to get to your questions. I think the press, because they don't understand conservative political culture and because they don't want to believe it's true, is missing the possibility, the possibility that what's happening now via MAGA and Turning Point is going to change the complexion of the midterm elections, the level of fundraising that took place this weekend, of organizing of energy. Midterm elections. Above all else, politics in general is about energy and passion. And I'm not saying it's definitely happening. But Dan, how possible is it that this is going to be the equivalent of what the Dobbs decision was, which is a massive wave that changes the complexion of who's going to win the midterms?

[Dan]

I don't know if it'll be a massive wave. I do think it has energized the other side. I think going pre this polls show Democrats were more energized by 10 to 15%. In fact, John, you've talked about like somehow sometimes when you win so much, it's hard to keep your side fired up. I don't think now Republicans will lack for a rallying call to be engaged, to register voters and ultimately to turn out voters. You know, do it for Charlie. I think you heard J.D. vance say over the weekend, I think you're going to hear more about that. I think what's going to be the challenge here is that middle 10% that didn't hear the left when they talked about democracy and existential threats. I don't know if they're going to hear the other side. How do they view this six months, 12 months from now? And I think that's the question because you can get so consumed by this and X and forget the real lives of real people, so to speak. And I think that's going to be an interesting question for Republicans politically to manage going forward.

[Mark]

Sean.

[Sean]

So there's two things that, especially in a midterm, that are going to matter. One is intensity. Do people really feel fired up going out and vote? We've touched on that. And the second is sort of what's become my sort of world is king in the last several cycles, which is data. And if you look at what is happening in terms of donations and activations in the last 48, 72 hours, turning point said that they've, and I apologize to, to my friends there if I get this wrong, but I think they had 900 chapters. They've had requests for like 3200, and that's high schools and colleges in the past 72 hours. So if you think about on the margins of what matters in the, in a midterm, and you take all of this key demographic that normally, if they had voted young, young voters would be going to the left, shifting to the right. That is a massive swing that on the margins could have a huge disproportional effect. I argue that if, if we carry Virginia in the next 60 days, and remember, it's not just what's going to. Normally you'd say, oh, well, election days in 68 in Virginia, we start voting next week, which is a whole nother problem. But that's not for today. And so there is a good chance that we can pull this out in Virginia because of the intensity that exists right now, never mind what happens in the midterms a year from now. So I actually think that this could be a huge watershed moment where the Dems lose a key demographic that becomes. Think about the voter data that will follow these guys going forward now.

[Mark]

Yep. Let me tell you three, three other political impacts I think this could have. And Sean, I know you were doing the numbers, remember, I think you said hundreds. It's actually Thousands.

[Dan]

You said 3200. I think.

[Mark]

Yeah, I think it's. I think it's 30. 30. I think it's 38,000.

[Sean]

That might be. Yeah, yeah, I didn't want. I was actually.

[Dan]

Small difference.

[Mark]

And yeah. In any event, first of all, this will increase the power of J.D. vance within the Republican Party because of his closeness to Charlie, to the extent you didn't think he was the front runner to be the nominee, the extent you didn't think he was going to play a huge role in the midterms. Believe me, now he will. Number two, the President and Stephen Miller are going to make it very politically painful for any business person who wants to give money to a Left or Democratic cause. So I think you're going to see people chilled from giving money to the Democratic Party. They'll be tied up with subpoenas, they'll be tied up with depositions, and they'll know that their names will be public. If they give to a group that has to disclose. And even if they give, previously you could give to a dark money group and not have your name out. Now those lists will potentially be made public through subpoenas and leaks. And so I think you're going to see the money imbalance change. And then the question's gonna be how much does Turning Point become a wing of the rnc? It was to some extent before, but who, whether, whether it's Erica or someone else, someone's gonna have to take over and run that thing. And if they do and they run it well, and there's lots of candidates who are being discussed now, if they do and they run it well, that could be a private party affiliated powerhouse unlike anything we've ever seen in American politics. I'm not saying it will happen, but it could happen because of the grassroots and as Sean said, the emphasis on young people. But it won't just be young people. And it is going to be a religious fueled passion project in the memory of Charlie Kirk. That again, let's see if they, if they live up to it. But it has the potential to become part of the culture, become part of every church or nearly every church. Not every church, but many churches in this country. It has the potential to revolutionize things.

[Dan]

All right, can I just add one thing to your second point about going after the Democratic kind of groups? I'll be quick because I heard this a lot when I was in D.C. democrats believe they're going to take the House back. Might be wrong. This was pre Charlie Kirk, but their confidence is pretty high. Word is starting to go out to all the businesses that kind of threw away their entire history to get into bed with Donald Trump because they have issues in front of them and they really need it. There is a lot of attention and cataloging being paid on the Democratic side of the aisle about what companies are doing, what they're saying, and how they're groveling at the altar of Trump. If they go ahead and try to do what you just described, boy, they better hope Democrats don't win in office back. Because if they get subpoena power, the level of groveling to Trump and Stephen Miller, 100%. All sparing love and war.

[Sean]

I can speak from experience. They had subpoena power So. I know.

[Dan]

Not like this. The norm.

[Sean]

No, I know, but I'm just saying.

[Mark]

They'Re going for broke.

[Dan]

Yeah. I mean, that's it. If you're gonna swing for the king, don't miss.

[Mark]

They're going for broke. Well, the only thing wrong with your metaphor is currently the Republicans are the kings.

[Dan]

I agree.

[Mark]

Have the keys to kingdom. They're going for broke and everybody's gonna have to lawyer up. Everybody's gonna have to deal with a ton of subpoenas and it's gonna be unlike anything we've ever seen. And the purpose of it's going to be to bankrupt the Democratic left.

[Dan]

You know what, though, boy, you got to be the middle part of this country. Didn't like it when Dems did it the last four years. You're running a risk.

[Mark]

Yeah, they are. All right, again, you want to get these handsome shirts that we're wearing. There's lots of options. I'll say again, go to 2way TV Fairway promo code, 2way20 if you want 20% off. I don't know why you wouldn't. Beautiful stuff. A word in a moment from our other sponsor for today's program and then your questions. And I'll say now, I'll try to remember to repeat at the end, I will not be here tomorrow. I will be off the program. Dan and Sean will ably hold down the fort. This is for a long planned professional obligation that I have. I do not want you to go nuts and say mark's not here for some reason. I won't be here tomorrow. I'll be back Wednesday. I'll be on two way tonight. Tonight and tomorrow. I'm not going anywhere. But I will be off this program tomorrow. Thank you for your attention to this matter. All right, our other sponsor today, CB Distillery. You get a discount on here too if you're having trouble sleeping. And of course, many of us are these days for lots of different reasons. Next day, you get draggy, you're exhausted, you can't get stuff done. You might have trouble hosting an hour long morning program on two way, for instance. That's where CBD from CB Distillery can make a real difference. It's not just about sleep, though. Also about stress, pain, exercise, pain after exercise, even mood and focus. For many people, these products work. Clean ingredients, no fillers, just premium CBD. You can wake up rested. 2 million people, more than 2 million people trust the products from CB Distillery. So if you're ready for some better sleep, less stress, feeling good in your own skin, try CBD products from CB Distillery. Right now you can save 25% off. Seems like a lot. 25% off your entire purchase. Visit CB Distillery. Use the promo code Mark again it's cbdistillery.com the promo code is Mark cb distillery.com hey, it's Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile. Now I was looking for fun ways to tell you that Mint's offer of unlimited Premium Wireless for $15 a month is back. So I thought it would be fun if we made $15 bills but it turns out that's very illegal.

[Dylan]

So there goes my big idea for the commercial.

[Dan]

Give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment.

[Mark]

Of $45 for three month plan equivalent to 15 per month required new customer.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

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[Mark]

Speed slow after 35 gigabytes of networks busy taxes and fees extra. See mint mobile.com all right, time for your questions and comments and you can ask about whatever you want. But we suspect we know what a lot of you are going to ask. An enormous number of hands up, including enormous number of new folks which makes us very happy. Glad to see the community thriving and growing and people so interested in being part of it. As always, tell us where you are, what's on your mind for Dan and Sean and my goodness, this has become a harder process to manage than it used to be. I'm a Dylan fan so we're going to start with Dylan. Dylan, welcome in. Thank you for joining. Tell folks where you are, what's on your mind.

[Dan]

Sure.

[Dylan]

Can you guys hear me okay?

[Dan]

Yeah. You're great. Yep, perfect.

[Dylan]

Thanks for having me. I'm in North Carolina and before I share my thoughts, I just want to thank all three of you. Mark, for building this platform and Shawn, Dan. I know a lot of topics have been very sensitive of late, but the three of you are honestly a shining example of how this country needs to to communicate.

[Mark]

Very grateful to you for that. Thank you.

[Dylan]

Of course, Charlie said when we stop talking, we start fighting. So I think he'd probably enjoy what you guys bring to the table every day. I've been trying to spend time over the last few days thinking about why this has been so impactful for so many. Two reasons come to mind. The first is personal. Very young men of course, taken too early and by all accounts a great husband and a great father. I'm blessed to have a one year old child at home. So the idea of being having that ripped away from someone is just heart wrenching. The second I think is far more sort of symbolic. I'D say, Sean, you made a point like this last week where for many folks on the right, they have been unable to share their opinions for the better part of the last 10 to 12 years. I'm 33 years old. I have fairly centrist views. I can tell you, Dan, from experience that as a college student in a liberal arts college in Pennsylvania, as an employee within the entertainment industry in California, I am able to share my left of center views. I'm unable to share my right of center views without being punished. For many of these young folks who followed Charlie, he wasn't just an influencer. I think for them, he was a singular example of someone being able to share opinions right of center in their space. He was, I think, a symbol of free speech to them. And so when they watched him get gunned down, really, for sharing views that many of them also share, I think that was particularly painful for them. What I think is sort of more holistic, though, is when terrible things like that happen, many of us can justify or move past it by saying something like, it was one terrible, evil person doing a terrible, evil thing.

[Mark]

Thing.

[Dylan]

And then my question is, was it? There's a quote from Douglas Murray, a British journalist and author and political commentator. And in the aftermath of the atrocities of October 7, he said, there are moments, and forgive me for paraphrasing, but there are moments in history where a flare goes up and you could see where everyone stands. And after Charlie passed and after he was killed, I think many folks did what all of us did. We went into our group chats, we went online to see people's reactions. We went on tv. We saw known people like Stephen King and Ilhan Omar and Matthew Dowd justifying this in a way. We saw people on TikTok dancing and celebrating it. We saw friends of ours making light and laughing about it. And for many of these people, they saw themselves in this. And they said, well, if Charlie's death can be justified because he had different political opinions, mine can too. Because maybe I agree with him on some things. And I think that is why it is hitting home for so many people. So I'd like to just end this with an appeal to those on the left, those in the center, to not just condemn the murderer, but condemn anyone celebrating or justifying or trivializing this. Because if you don't make that for two reasons. One, to reach out to people on your left wing, on the fringes, and bring them back to. To some normalcy and make it clear to them that it's not okay to celebrate this, it's not okay to justify it and make it clear to them, I mean this, the next time they utter the word fascist, they should be looking in a mirror. They need to hear it from you because they won't hear it from anyone right of center. But more importantly, to make that distinction to those on the right, make the distinction that you don't believe in justifying violence against people you disagree with. Because if you don't make that distinction, it won't be made for you and you will have millions. Mark, you always mention millions or tens of millions of people who don't make that distinction. And that is the worst outcome out of this for our country. The best outcome from this, our country, is that it brings folks together and following Charlie's footsteps of dialogue first and peace, love and understanding. So with that said, I plead that you make your stance clear and you stand up for more morality. And you do so loudly and clearly as soon as possible and as loudly as possible.

[Mark]

Dylan, beautiful. Thank you. You do speak for tens of millions. There's a story in the Free Beacon we're going to tell you about in a minute involved about alleged aspects of the investigation that are quite significant. We'll get to when we have the headline ready for you and we'll put the link in the chat. Dan, response to Dylan and then Sean.

[Dan]

First off, Dylan, thanks for raising your hand and I think you said you spoke very well for how you feel. I think two things about the left that I think are the case and are sad. I, I think, one, the left still, 12 years later, does not hear MAGA. They just cannot hear what they have to say and it pains me to say it, they don't respect maga. Like, they still don't understand that people voted the way they did and why, you know, the average person on the left still thinks the Trump fever is going to break, right? They think it's just an infection, this is not normal. And it's going to end at some point or even when Trump leaves office. It's going to end and like we're going to go back to, you know, Bush versus Clinton type of, you know, world. And I think I've been, I agree with you and have been clear that the party should not call Trump, Hitler should not say he's a fascist. One, it's bad politics. Two, it's just not true. Right? It is simply not the case. And I think that whenever a bad thing happens, parties need to call out in real time. This is not acceptable. And I wish that one of our 2028ers would, would come out and be more explicit. Like, I thought Bernie Sanders did a great job. But the next step is I, you know, some of these leaders, I am wrong or was wrong to call Trump, like, we all need to lower the temperature. And I'm going to do my part by saying like, we got to knock this crap off when in the marketplace of ideas win at the ballot box. But don't say we have to destroy the other side and stop it. Because it's Hitler. Because I agree with the Speaker Johnson. Crazy people hear that and think I have to do my part.

[Mark]

Okay, Sean, before you jump in, put up 201, please. This is a Daily the Free Beacon story and it reports that the FBI now has screenshots of. Here's the headline, exclusive FBI investigating social media accounts that appeared to indicate foreknowledge of Kirk assassination. And I'll just read you a portion of the story. The posts, one of which referenced the date of Kirk's assassination more than a month before it took place, were all deleted in the days following the killing. Several of the accounts appear to belong to transgender individuals, and at least one of them followed suspect Tyler Robinson's roommate, with whom Robinson was allegedly in a relationship on TikTok. So we talked about this at the top of the show. I'm telling you, this is where this is headed. There'll be a big national debate about all of the themes and questions here about accountability, I'm quite certain. Shawn, respond to Dylan her question, please.

[Sean]

Again, I just. Dylan, thanks for coming on. Look, I agree with exactly what you're saying. I mean, this is not. I have spent my career at least trying to understand the other side. And I may not agree with you, but I subscribe to what Charlie has done, which is to have a dialogue, to at least understand it, to say, I get why you believe what you believe. I disagree with it. The difference between this current or what's going on, not just now, but it's been going on for decades, is that the left literally doesn't accept that there's a rational understanding of the right, of the MAGA movement, of why we believe what we believe. I had this comment, ironically, the Emmys were last night. I had a bunch of discussions in 2017 on the way home after the Emmys with some prominent left wing Hollywood types who said, you know, I wish we could get the dialogue going. And I think I relayed this story once before and at the end of the discussion he said, as long as you idiots would just give up Your guns. We could probably make some progress. That. And I was like, just when I, like that's the answer is that we'll have a discussion with you as long as you agree with us. And I on big issues like, like the issue of life and the Second Amendment, I, I don't agree with anyone left, but I mean, at least in some ways, sometimes I go, okay, let me understand why you could possibly think this. The folks on the left looked at the people on the right and say, you're. We don't even think that you're normal. You should be canceled for even believing that. You shouldn't be allowed to have that view. That's very different. Let me just read you again because this is important. From one of the studies that I noted, this, quote, assassination culture incubated on social media and has migrated from the margins of public life into the mainstream. We found that nearly one third of Americans surveyed, around half of those identifying as left of center, believe that the murder of certain public figures is at least somewhat justified. The figures are startling. 38% of respondents and 55% of people in the center left said assassinating President Trump would be at Least somewhat justified. 31 respondents and 47, 48% of those on the left said that. The same about Musk. 40% of respondents and 58% of those in the center left deem it at least somewhat acceptable to destroy a Tesla dealership in protest. That is not normal. And the problem, and to your point, Dylan, is that no one at the higher end of the Democratic Party is saying, we don't agree with that. They're not tamping it down. This has been existing in survey after survey for over years now. And no one on the left is saying, hey, this is a bubbling up and growing problem of how we choose to respond to our differences with the right. And we're gonna say it's no. In fact, and this is why I said it, and it wasn't callous when I said it, they actually condone it and in many cases egg it on.

[Mark]

Thank you.

[Dan]

I want to just flag, during the Biden administration, when there were surveys about violence being acceptable, the right had very high numbers too, particularly after the 2020 election, violence to stop what they said were fraught. So, I mean, this surveys have captured the mounting. We have to defeat the other side, and all means are acceptable. And it's bonkers.

[Mark]

Dylan, thank you. I'm going to ask everybody to be shorter. We've gotten in one person. We got 15 minutes to go. Nadine, welcome and thank you for being part of two way Tell folks where you are and what's on your mind for Sean and Dan.

[Nadine]

Hey, Mark, thanks so much for letting me talk. I love this show, all you guys. I watch every morning, every night. I've been watching since last fall.

[Mark]

Thank you.

[Nadine]

My first time to actually sign in and raise my hand though.

[Mark]

Thank you for that. All that.

[Nadine]

I'm in north, I'm in North Carolina and I really just wanted to speak a minute on the impact that Charlie Kirk has had on me personally because so much of what I'm reading and hearing is his influence on college age people. But I just think it's more than that. I am a conservative voter and I've always wanted to be involved, but I have a really busy family and I just had no confidence at all to be able to even find a way to participate until this last year. Took me a while to get to the point of even wanting to enter in to the conversation, but I was listening, started listening off and on to Charlie and then that kind of grew over the summer. And what Charlie did for people was he inspired them to do their small part, whether it's just talk to your own kids, are they registered, you know, are they interested, do they know when to vote? Do they know when early voting begins? Your neighbors? And through the, the Turning Point app, he, he gave a tool that made it easy for people to, to do a little bit in, in my own instance, Turning Point did a, like a chase the vote kind of event on a Sunday afternoon to just to go around and register voters, talk to people who are low propensity voters, give out literature. I was not at all comfortable. I did not want to do it. But I knew a couple other people that were going mostly my age, actually some of them with their teenage kids. But I did go once. I learned, once I got a little bit comfortable with the app, I said I can go to my neighborhood. I know there's a, there's three houses on my street that's on this app that say these would be good people to contact.

[Mark]

Nadine, I'm going to stop you there and just, and let Dan and Sean respond. Okay, sure.

[Nadine]

Thanks.

[Mark]

Thank you, Dan.

[Dan]

I look, I think, Nadine, thanks for coming on. You raise a point and the previous person did too, that when I talk to Democrats, they just can't get through their heads, which is the idea that people couldn't be expressed their opinions in their neighborhood, at their job, on a college campus for fear of retaliation, of being canceled, of being ostracized. And how Charlie Kirk was that kind of helped loosen that up to give you confidence, to give you the tools that you're describing. And Sean, you said it. A lot of people on the left say, well, yeah, sure, they should be canceled because A, B, C or D is not acceptable. And you just shake your head and you're like, you don't get it. Like, you just have no respect for it. You can't even hear it.

[Sean]

Sean, I think to your point, Nadine, one of the things that's been fascinating to me is never in my life have I seen somebody we've had. I was at mass on Saturday night and we talked. I mean, the priest in the homilies talking about Charlie Kirk, he's not Catholic. I mean like the impact that that guy had to your point on young old, it's to see NFL teams who have literally gone so left wing stop and have to understand. It shows you what an impact this individual had.

[Mark]

Thank you, Nadine. Thank you. Very grateful to you. Thank you for being part of Two Way. Daniel, welcome in. Tell folks who don't know where you are what's on your mind For Dan and Sean.

[Daniel]

Yes, I'm in California and I'll just say you guys are brilliant. Thank you for.

[Mark]

Thank you.

[Daniel]

Everything you've done. The Free Beacon article was timely in terms of what I want to talk about, which was the. The responsibility perhaps of social media in terms of how it foments tends seems to foment extremism for perhaps their own profit. I think everyone can really. It's easy to see how opinions that are interesting are interesting and often it's the opinions that are just outside of the normal of your normal that push the Overton window that are interesting. So my question is, assuming it is the case that things are going to move in the direction of it looking like the attacker was influenced by social media, how will this inform policy moving forward or should it inform how should it inform policy moving forward for the social media companies which up to this point seem to be doing pretty well.

[Mark]

Yeah. Daniel. Thank you, Sean.

[Sean]

It's a great question. You guys have heard me say before my concerns about TikTok and the influence. I will. Well, actually, I won't. I will say one thing that Spencer Cox has gotten right, the governor of Utah is these social media like tools and platforms. I don't know why we can't have a more honest discussion about what the damage they're doing to this generation. It's almost like again, and you've heard me say this, this is One area where I wish the Trump administration wouldn't let them write a check and come back in. These guys are destroying a generation of Americans and what they are doing is wrong. And I wish we spent more time discussing it and talking about the dangers of it. The Governor Cox said correctly, it is the equivalent of fentanyl. And it is true. I mean, what they're doing and they're radicalizing kids not just on political issues, but on so many other things. So I hope that we at least have the courage to address what these tech companies are doing. Mark Zuckerberg is literally, should never be celebrated for what he has done to this country. It is horrible.

[Mark]

Dan.

[Dan]

Yeah, I think the dark corners of the Internet are just that. They're dark corners. It's every parent's nightmare about what their kids could find, whether it's political violence, self harm, drug use, alcohol use, you know, pornography, like we fear constantly what people may find. And I think, I hope that this, the murderer, the alleged murderer, what he was trafficking in and what he was hearing or bragged about or foreshadowed, you know, whether it's someone who's going to commit suicide or whatever. The Internet is a, is a dark place. And to Sean, your point about, about the companies. We saw this on Covid. We saw this around, you know, January six and other stuff. People go into these chat rooms and say crazy stuff.

[Mark]

Daniel, real quick, because I got a question. Yes, sir.

[Daniel]

Just Dan. So do you think that social media companies should have more response, should bear more responsibility?

[Mark]

They should. I will tell you, I've studied this. I think as much as anyone I know, it is, it is the mismatch between the Congress's level of understanding of the, of the industry and their courage to take it on versus the sophistication of the lobbyists. It's David versus Goliath and David has no, nothing. This, this is a crazy mismatch.

[Daniel]

And so we have to do something then.

[Dan]

Well, if, maybe that'll bring people together.

[Mark]

I am generally optimistic about everything. But, but I'm telling you, the mismatches, you say we need to do something, it would take an extraordinary amount, extraordinary amount of effort because these lobbyists are geniuses and they're self interested and they delude themselves into saying it's not their fault and to some extent it's not their free speech issues. These are the crown jewels of the American economy. But as Shaun has said several times, the fact that Mark Zuckerberg could just buy his way back into the White House demonstrates to you just how sophisticated, just how powerful these groups are. And I'm telling you, it is going to take an effort beyond anything that has ever been done to get these groups to do it with government coercion. And it is folly to think they'll do it on their own.

[Dan]

And they monetize it. They sell around the dark corners.

[Mark]

I will tell you that if someone wants to put me in charge, in charge of it, I need like. I need like $4 billion. I need $4 billion to get it done. Okay.

[Daniel]

I'll work on it.

[Mark]

Thank you, Daniel. Thank you, Daniel. Grateful to you for raising it. Just a very tough issue, mang. Welcome in. Tell folks who don't know where you are what's on your mind. For sure.

[Dan]

Thanks for.

[Mang]

Thanks for having me. I am in Plano, just outside of Dallas, and I had a couple of comments. One was actually related to social media. The other one was just kind of just the general reaction to. To. To Charlie shooting with social media. I mean, Parlor was, you know, Parlor got. Got deplatformed, whatever demonetized, whatever you want to call it, for essentially doing what Blues. What's happening on Blue sky right now where it's just.

[Mark]

Yes.

[Mang]

It's complete free for all to the point where they've shut off their search.

[Mark]

Yeah.

[Mang]

Function. Because people are able to see kind of, you know, what's happening over there. Discord.

[Mark]

Yeah. They're all. They're all. They're all what? They're all the Wild west. And anybody can do anything on them. And young people see them. And it's polluting the minds of a generation of young men in particular, who we are losing. And I blame the parents before I blame the social media companies, but it's not easy for parents because that stuff is ubiquitous. Yeah.

[Dan]

And I think the algorithm. Spit. Anything that's outrageous spins up quickly in the algorithms. Right. And that's the. It's shoved into you on the top topics. So if somebody does something crazy, celebrating Charlie Kirk's death, all of a sudden it starts spinning up and you're like, oh, my God, it's shocking.

[Mark]

Do your other topic real quick if you could. Yeah.

[Mang]

And I guess also related to that, I mean, what's been most disappointing, you know, I always kind of, you know, my personal view. I'd always assumed that it was going to be some kind of hard left fringe person responsible for this attack, but it's. I guess it's been the reaction from, I guess the broader left. You know, I guess all these people are getting canceled. You know, they're they're doctors, they're teachers. They are not people that you would expect to see so vocally championing or cheering on all of this stuff. And I guess I would have hoped that something like this. I mean, as someone who was, before the election, was skeptical about, you know, our ability to kind of, you know, kind of come together regardless of the show.

[Mark]

It's not the people that you think are going to be like. I tweeted over the weekend that the first day when people on the right were telling me you wouldn't believe all these people who are celebrating Charlie's death, first day, I was skeptical. I was like, I'm sure it's just a handful of people. I think some of them must be deep fakes. But after 36 hours, I was proved wrong, and I said I was naive. I'm stunned. I really am. I was previously most stunned by the number of young people in this country hostile to Israel. That stunned me. And pro Hamas. This is the most stunning thing I can remember in my career. The number of, as you said, doctors, pilots, teachers, celebrating the death of this man, saying false things about him to celebrate. It's staggering to me. It is emotionally draining for me to think about that's what America is. And I'll say for those on the left who want to start sending me a catalog of things that are on the right that are stunning, like 40% or something of Republicans thinking the election was stolen or whatever it is, it's not the first thing to be stunning to me. But the cruelty of this. The cruelty of this stuns me. Really does. Really does. Thank you.

[Sean]

Two things I'd say. One is, what blows my mind more than anything, Mark, on that point is the stupidity. Like, if you're a pilot, a doctor. I don't. A teacher.

[Mark]

Imagine, imagine. Imagine wanting public space. Imagine the mentality, you so want to write it publicly, that you're willing to risk losing.

[Sean]

But that's what I'm saying, that you're right.

[Mark]

Yeah, I know. I know. I'm agreeing with you.

[Sean]

I'm agreeing with stupidity. The second thing, to Dan's point, is what's the. I am the. I'm a massive, massive free speech advocate. I. You have to be willing to support what you abhor. But what I feel the problem with the social media companies is these guys know how to get you to go down rabbit holes that you wouldn't have by your own. By yourself. This is not free speech. This is literally a mind game where they're trying to figure out how to get you to see things that you're not supposed to, to buy you in. It's an addiction and it's a problem. And that's the difference. It's not choice. It's, it's literally forcing somebody to take a drug.

[Dan]

It's science, not art.

[Mark]

Right.

[Dan]

They know what they're doing.

[Mark]

Sean, what do you have on your program tonight?

[Sean]

Two big guests. Tyler Bauer, one of the leaders of Turning Point usa, close friend of Charlie's is going to join us. And then Will Chamberlain from the Article 3 project. We're going to break down the legal consequences of, you know, both the, the assailant but also, you know, to this point, what, what do people have the right to post and not without consequence. Where's that line of free speech? So I'm excited.

[Mark]

Dan, anything? Okay.

[Sean]

Fairway in green all day.

[Mark]

Yeah. Megan McCain is on today at a special time, 11:30 Eastern. And amongst her guests are Tulsi Gabbard. Tulsi Gabbard was very close to Charlie and is obviously extremely upset about what's happened. So please join Megan and Tulsi at 11:30 an opportunity to ask them both questions and hear from them. Two people who are quite emotional and thoughtful about what has happened. So that's at a special time again, 11:30 Eastern to be able to join the conversation, the two way conversation on Citizen McCain at 11:30. I'll be on at 6:00 clock tonight with two way. Tonight we'll have a full conversation about Charlie. I suspect the president will talk today. That's my hunch, so have all of that. And I'll also be on with Megyn Kelly at noon Eastern Time on SiriusXM and then later on YouTube so you can listen to listen for me there. And then a reminder, I will not be here tomorrow, but that's long scheduled professional obligation. We're struggling with balancing our own talk with community conversation. It's been an issue since Two Way began. Some of you send nice messages saying we don't care what the real people have to say. We just want to hear you, Sean and Dan and other people say we can hear pundits anywhere. Why aren't there more community questions? And we're doing our best to balance, particularly now when so many of you have your hands up and there's so much interest and we'll continue to struggle with it, but appreciate your forbearance if we're not balancing it to your liking. And we'll do a better job tomorrow of being shorter across the board so we can get more of you in. It's just this is not a conversation, a topic that lends itself to short little things to say. And of course Dan and John are extremely thoughtful and have lots to say and and we don't want to squelch that either. So we'll do our best. Grateful to you for being part of the two way community. Thank you for being here. We will be back in 23 hours and John and I will both see you at 6pm tonight on our programs. Have a good day everybody. Thank you so much for being part of this.

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