Charlie Kirk's Murder: Major Update on the Investigation and Emotional Debate Over "Both-Side-ism"

Summary

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2WAY Morning Meeting

Episode: Charlie Kirk's Murder: Major Update on the Investigation and Emotional Debate Over "Both-Side-ism"

Date: September 11, 2025
Hosts: Mark Halperin (A), Sean Spicer (C), Dan Turrentine (B)
Guests & Community Contributors: Call-ins from Celia, Matthew, Lisa, Logan, Mallory, Maureen (ex-FBI), and others

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OVERVIEW

This somber episode convenes amid a national atmosphere of shock and grief the day after the assassination of conservative activist and movement leader Charlie Kirk. Although both the anniversary of September 11 and current political tensions weigh heavily, the central focus is the significance of Kirk’s death: what it reflects about America’s civic life, why it specifically rattles the political right, and whether the national response will deepen divisions or foster understanding.

The hosts guide an emotionally charged discussion with input from insiders, political actors, and listeners, delving into the movement Kirk led, the systemic roots of anger and mistrust, real and perceived asymmetries in how the left and right are treated, and the challenge of "both-side-ism" in national tragedies.

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KEY DISCUSSION POINTS & INSIGHTS

1. Immediate Reactions to the Shooting

• Hosts share personal accounts of how they learned about Kirk’s assassination, expressing both heartbreak and a sense of disbelief.
  • Sean Spicer: “I probably had one of the least productive days that I've had. I mean, I just, I couldn't, I couldn't stop watching the Internet and had two TVs going.” [01:32]
• Parallel observations with 9/11 remembrances and the deep historical wound tied into the day's gravity.

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2. Charlie Kirk’s Unique Role in the Political Right

• Emphasis on Kirk’s status as more than a pundit – he was a movement-builder and a symbolic leader.
  • Spicer: “What he symbolized was a movement. What he did in leading this movement...this violence in all its forms is wrong. But...they’re not just going after people who are active, they’re going after the leaders of movements and trying to stop them. Not just stop the people, but the movement.” [08:11]
  • Halperin: “There is no Charlie Kirk of the left… the bond he had with so many people is, I think, something the left, they need to acknowledge…” [10:36]

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3. Media Coverage, Asymmetry & Both-Side-ism

• Hosts note perceived differences in how political violence is reported depending on the target's affiliation:
  • Halperin: “If there were a Charlie Kirk on the left… the statements wouldn’t be, we all need to lower the temperature… they’d be about the evil ideology that caused that person to be killed… That’s just a disparity, and it’s factual.” [05:25]
  • Dan: Suggests lack of personal connection explains, but does not excuse, less immediate outcry: “I don't begrudge the party and the real lives of real people not knowing who Charlie Kirk is. So, in terms of the immediate reaction…” [12:20]
• Lively debate over "both-side-ism": Listeners and hosts debate whether political violence and rhetorical dehumanization are equally distributed between right and left, or whether the right faces systematic silencing in institutions.

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4. Anger and Alienation Among Conservatives

• Participants express deep frustration at feeling marginalized or at risk in academia, media, and corporate America:
  • Sean Spicer: “We have been told to shut up. We have been canceled, censored for decades.” [08:11]
  • Listener (Taylor): “I'd get fired if they knew I was conservative. Like, I cannot say anything at work. Now that I've spoken up, I might get fired…in the middle, you can't be middle conservative. You will get ostracized.” [54:14]

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5. The Roots and Dangers of Political Rhetoric

• Recurring concern about the spiral of demonization between left and right:
  • Matthew (caller): “When I'm constantly told, well, both sides need to take down the rhetoric, I'm like, that's not where we are as a country.” [32:22]
  • Halperin: “Do not play this game, people, of saying one side has clean hands… if where we're headed now in the wake of Charlie's death is to ball up decades of anger and say we're going to destroy the left over this, it has to be mitigated by the left understanding… but it also has to be mitigated by you guys… If that's our attitude...that will not end well for America.” [38:30]
  • Lisa (caller): “You cannot dehumanize millions of Americans and say, hey, they're a problem. They're deplorable. They're extremists for years and not have something like this happen.” [41:31]
• Host and callers challenge each other to acknowledge real threats, violence, and bad acts from both sides, with repeated references to events like January 6th, the attack on Paul Pelosi, and campus hostility.

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6. Updates on the Investigation

• Live Law Enforcement Briefing (Utah Commissioner of Public Safety):
  • Authorities have tracked the suspect’s movements, have solid video, but have not released footage yet. “Through all that work last night, we were able to make a few breakthroughs. We were able to track the movements of the shooter… We do have good video footage of this individual…” [17:41]
  • The killer planned the attack meticulously, according to ex-FBI guest Maureen: “This was a planned event, make no mistake… This is someone that was familiar with the campus either from being there or because they wanted to kill Charlie Kirk.” [58:00]
  • On the killer’s psychology: “I don't think that's what we're looking at, Mark. I think we're looking at someone that just was hell-bent on this assassination, on stifling a whole movement.” [60:43]

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7. Calls for Constructive Solutions

• Listener (Celia): “As someone who comes from the right, we're just begging to be heard… For the sake of this country, I really, really hope that we can get to a place where I'm not spending my morning deleting Facebook friends because it's just glorifying what happened yesterday.” [21:49]
• Proposal from Ari Fleischer (read by Halperin): Universities should honor Kirk by welcoming conservative speakers to campus, creating space for genuine dialogue. [25:47]
• Spicer: “But the idea that we're even close to being equal. The left controls every major institution in this country and shuts out anyone on the right who has a dissenting view. … This is not even close to being equal.” [49:54]

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8. Emotional and Memorable Moments

• Mark Halperin (in a plea for understanding): “It will not honor Charlie's memory if the path forward is their injustices are so asymmetrically worse that we're just going to kill them – not literally, but politically. That will not end well.” [39:15]
• Spicer (on Kirk’s generosity): “Every one of [my texts with Charlie] was me asking him for something… every response was yes. That’s who he was.” [62:57]
• Mallory (caller): “It is important... to understand why the Republicans have gotten so upset and feel like they've been silenced. Because it is, I mean, in the media, in the movies, in Hollywood and academia, I see that and I think that does need to change. But I think Dan is also right in the sense that there is an insane amount of volatility between both parties and it's resulting in violence on both sides.” [50:20]

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TIMESTAMPS FOR IMPORTANT SEGMENTS

• [01:32] – Sean Spicer’s initial reaction to the murder
• [08:11] – Spicer on why Kirk’s death resonates with (and angers) the right
• [12:20] – Dan addresses claims of asymmetric coverage and ignorance
• [21:49] – First listener call (Celia) on the need for better representation, empathy
• [25:47] – Ari Fleischer’s campus-dialogue proposal
• [37:58] – Mark Halperin urges against tribal vengeance in Kirk’s name
• [46:36] – Debate over whether “both sides” rhetoric fits the reality of campus, workplace silencing
• [56:40] – Ex-FBI agent Maureen analyzes the investigation and nature of the killer
• [62:57] – Spicer’s emotional anecdote about Kirk’s character

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NOTABLE QUOTES

• “This is not one person, one thing, one month. This has been manifesting for decades. The left. Silencing, censoring, canceling. People didn't just happen with the rise of Donald Trump. Since I've been in college, my college commencement speaker was canceled because a group of people thought that his positions on certain issues were unacceptable.” — Sean Spicer [08:11]

• “I want [the left] to understand. Because if they understand, they'll be more respectful about what people on the right are going through.” — Mark Halperin [12:13]

• “Charlie wasn't just a commentator. He was a movement leader.” — Matthew (caller) [30:49]

• “You cannot dehumanize millions of Americans and say, hey, they're a problem. They're deplorable. They're extremists for years and not have something like this happen.” — Lisa (caller) [41:31]

• “You can't be middle conservative. You will get ostracized.” — Taylor (caller) [54:14]

• “Every one of [my texts with Charlie] was me asking him for something… every response was yes.” — Sean Spicer [62:57]

• “This isn't just someone on the right getting assassinated. It's a terrorist attack telling all of us to shut the up about what we believe. That's what this is.” — Maureen (ex-FBI) [57:02]

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COMMUNITY PARTICIPATION HIGHLIGHTS

• Frequent plea for empathy and good-faith engagement – Listeners from both right and center share stories of feeling misunderstood, silenced, or under threat.

• Challenge to "both-side-ism": Both listeners and hosts scrutinize whether violence and delegitimization are truly symmetrical, or if the right faces deeper, institutional suppression.

• Raw emotions on all sides: Multiple participants describe feeling unsafe, demonized, or unable to be open in their communities or workplaces.

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CONCLUSION

The episode closes with unresolved tensions but a shared resolve to foster more honest dialogue and mutual respect. The hosts preview further coverage of the investigation, including expert analysis on political violence and tributes to Kirk’s legacy. Throughout, the tone is passionate, raw, and insistent: unless America can honestly reckon with its divides – and the grievances fueling them – Kirk’s murder risks becoming yet another catalyst for civic breakdown, rather than a moment of national reckoning and healing.

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For more coverage, tune into further 2WAY programs and tonight’s special episodes delving into both the evolving investigation and the personal legacy of Charlie Kirk.

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Transcript

[A]

Mike and Alyssa are always trying to outdo each other. When Alyssa got a small water bottle, Mike showed up with a 4 liter jug. When Mike started gardening, Alyssa started beekeeping.

[B]

Oh, come on. They called a truce for their holiday.

[A]

And used Expedia trip planner to collaborate on all the details of their trip. Once there, Mike still did more laps around the pool. Whatever. You were made to outdo your holidays. We were made to help organize the competition. Expedia made to travel. Morning, everybody. Welcome. It's a morning meeting on two way. It's also September 11th and it's the day after a tragic event for the country. Grateful to have you here. We want to talk mostly today about Charlie Kirk, about him and about what all this means. So we're going to be welcoming a lot of participation from the community. So please raise your hand if you want to be in on the conversation. In two minutes, it will be 9:03 Eastern Time, which is one of the moments of silence that we observe every year. It's when Flight 175 struck the South Tower, about a mile and a half from where I am right now. So we'll all do that together in commemoration of the 24th anniversary of January 11th, September 11th, as well as for Charlie. And then three of us will have a brief discussion and, and then again, we're going to want lots of your questions and comments, so please be ready to participate. Sean, where were you yesterday during all of this and what were you doing?

[C]

I was at home and literally one of my producers texted me and alerted me to the event. And then obviously I think I probably had one of the least productive days that I've had. I mean, I just, I couldn't, I couldn't stop watching the Internet and had two TVs going. I mean, it was, I, I couldn't, couldn't stop watching and just trying to get an update and a reaction. Else.

[A]

Yeah, Dan, were you home as home as well?

[B]

Yeah, I was home on the friend. On the phone with some friends in D.C. about some extra political gossip that seems very small now. And when I saw Sean's text and I told them and we all stopped and said, oh my God.

[C]

Hi, I'm Anthony Scaramucci and I'd like to tell you about my new show, Lost Boys. It's a limited edition series. It's hosted by myself and Professor Scott Galloway. We're having honest conversations about a topic no one wants to talk about. The crisis that young men are facing nowadays. Our talks discuss why so many young men are struggling to find purpose Connection and identity in today's world. We dig into what's really going on, politics, culture, loneliness, even rage. And what we can do to help change the narrative. This is a six part series that will challenge your assumptions and encourage you to continue the conversation from the dinner table to the office. Follow and listen to Lost Boys on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. You can also go to Lostboys Men and sign up to get the latest episodes and news.

[A]

Yeah, so again we're going to observe the moment of silence. We'll look at some, some pictures from TV as we do it together. Observe as you wish and then we've got a few things we want to talk about. But we mostly want to hear from you today. This program, this platform is dedicated to not turning Charlie's death into a civil war. We don't know yet who the murderer was. And there's going to be a press conference in this hour which we'll take part of at least to see whether there's announcement, some, some indications there may well be. So please raise your hand if you want to be in the conversation and go ahead. Paul, you can go ahead and put up some pictures from the commemoration here. Observation in here in New York City for September 11th and the President has.

[C]

Arrived Pentagon right now. He is the first lady and the President are there.

[A]

Those of you listening on the podcast, we're watching the presence and the First Lady's arrival at the pentagon. And now 9:03 Eastern Time, a moment of silence for when the plane hit the south tower. America.

[D]

So be patient with us at home as we balance a lot of moments that we do not.

[A]

Paul, you can take that down please.

[B]

That's amazing. Several people in the chat have said it's hard to believe that was 24 years ago.

[A]

Yeah. The President will come to New York later today to go to a Yankees game in the Bronx after the stop at the Pentagon. And of course famously George W. Bush came here for a Yankee game shortly after 911 in 2001. The Vice President was also supposed to be in New York today. But his closeness to Charlie Kirk is quite something. If you haven't read his post on X about Charlie, I recommend it to you. It's really quite compelling and their relationship was quite something. And the team around the Vice President is also very close to Charlie's family. So the Vice President plans to go out west today to meet with the family and, and visit with, visit with Charlie's wife and, and kids. So there's a few other things happening today, but we don't think there's much, much need to run through them. I'll just, I'll just say briefly, grateful to the sponsors of this program for understanding that this is not a normal day for us. So I'll just say briefly, Cozy Earth and Lean, both sponsors, we recommend them to you. We're grateful to them for allowing us to do these programs. If you want to go to cozyearth.com discount code morning40 or to clean, take lean.com 20% off promo code Mark. Thanks to them for sponsoring the show to allow us to do it. Okay. There's lots we could talk about. And again, we're waiting for law enforcement press conference, which we'll listen to when it happens, if it does happen on schedule in this hour. My goal is to, as I suggested, not make Charlie's life a fight in my life in my inbox. And people I know there's a lot of anger, and I just want to frame this up. Not, not to have a fight, but to try to produce understanding. There is no Charlie Kirk of the left. And I talk to Charlie about that quite a bit whenever I talk to him. And I think it's, it's something the Democrats don't appreciate very much. Part of why Gavin Newsom wanted Charlie on his show, because he's one of the Democrats smart enough to realize they need, they need that. But if there were a Charlie Kirk on the left and he had been, or she had been killed yesterday, don't know who did it, but if that person had been killed, the media coverage would be different and the politician statements would be different. The statements wouldn't be, we all need to lower the temperature, which we do. The statements would be about the evil ideology that caused that person to be killed. Okay. That's just a disparity, and it's, it's factual. So my question to you for Shonda and Dan is what can we do to allow the left to see why there's so much anger, not just at Matthew Dowd, but I know there's anger coming on the right. I know there is. And it will be, it will be less, less dangerous, less volatile if the left can understand why, why people who loved Charlie and believed in Charlie are so upset. So, Sean, can you take a try at explaining why, why people are so angry about what's happened so people on the left can, can adjust to it and understand it and, and, and maybe reach back out in a way that will lessen the, the degree of anger.

[C]

That'S about to come yeah, And I, I gotta say, I'm one of these people. I am, I am conflicted because I'm sad for Charlie and his family and what happened, but I'm pissed. And, and I, as a Christian, I don't know how to reconcile that sometimes. But I, I agree with you because this is going to get, and not in a, in a violent way, but I, I think I, I, I'm tired of the, watch my language here. I, I'm tired of the, the, the left, the rhetoric. This is Charlie, Charlie was like a friend. And, and again, there's a whole personal piece to this, that's one thing. But what he symbolized was a movement. What he did in leading this movement and, and putting, can't be overstated. I mean, like, this is, I mean, to your point, this is an enigma. As much as Donald Trump was an enigma and a unicorn as a candidate, Charlie was as an organizer, as an activist. This violence in all of its forms is wrong. But when you go after Donald Trump and try to kill him twice, and they go after, they're not just going after people who are active, they're going after the leaders of movements and trying to stop them. Not just stop the people, but the movement. And that's the big difference here. Violence and extremism and craziness is one thing, but when you're trying to silence Trump and you're trying to silence Charlie Kirk, you're not just going after them personally, you're going after the entire movement. And I don't think that people fully appreciate that. And the last thing I'll say, and then kind of keep the conversation going, is this is not one person, one thing, one month. This has been manifesting for decades. The left. Silencing, censoring, canceling. People didn't just happen with the rise of Donald Trump. Since I've been in college, my college commencement speaker was canceled because a group of people thought that his positions on certain issues were unacceptable. And I don't think to your point in understanding why this happens is, it's not. We have been told to shut up. We have been canceled, censored for decades. And it's time that this, this is going to change.

[A]

Dan, I, I talked about more than a few Democrats yesterday who had heard of Charlie Kirk. They, they know who he is. They knew some of what he did. But two things struck me in every one of the conversations. They don't appreciate how significant he was as a force for the movement, but they don't appreciate the bond that people in MAGA have towards him. Not just the President, the vice president, whose bonds are quite substantial, but kids all over the country. Some have met him, some who hadn't, some who are MAGA, and some who are not. They do not understand how this young man was able to reach so many people in an emotional way. They're acting like some Republican operative got killed and we don't know who did it, so how upset can we be? They do not understand. And. And that's part of what I think they have to understand, because they don't have you. You don't have it. You don't have anybody like Charlie Kirk. Not that you don't have leaders and operatives who are skillful, but the bond he had with so many people is, I think, something the left, they need to acknowledge it more. And I read everything and watched so much overnight. I do not see liberals in the media understanding this bond and how important that is. Dan.

[B]

Well.

[A]

Just to be clear. Sorry, I'm not being critical because they don't know what I'm asking.

[B]

Sounds like I'm not being critical.

[A]

I want them. My point is, I want them to understand because. Because if they understand, they'll be more respectful about what people in the right are going through.

[B]

I think that where you're missing the mark is I get who Charlie Kirk is, and I have tremendous respect for him. Had tremendous respect for him, all four of our kids. I've said this yesterday, texted after school saying, did you hear about Charlie Kirk? Is he going to be all right? They're totally apolitical. I don't think people on the right know who most left operatives are, generally speaking. Right. That doesn't mean Charlie Kirk is not a huge influential figure that people are going to, in the coming days, learn what significance he had to the movement, to the president, to maga. And I think, I don't begrudge the party and the real lives of real people not knowing who Charlie Kirk is. So in terms of the immediate reaction.

[A]

Dan. I'm sorry. I'm sorry to interrupt. Not begrudging it. What I'm saying is you're about to see unleashed an extraordinary amount of anger.

[B]

I. I hear you are.

[A]

And. And part of it is the callousness with which people on the left. It's callous because of its ignorance.

[B]

Well, Mark, that's got to appreciate.

[A]

Got to appreciate it. You have to appreciate it.

[B]

Look, we're going to disagree about. I, I don't fault people for ignorant. They. They don't know. And I think what's heartbreaking and tragic about this, guys, is we could turn on the TV this morning, and if AOC were shot, would any of us have been shocked? Donald Trump's attempts on his life, people shooting at the cdc, Paul Pelosi being attacked. It's heartbreaking, it's tragic. He's a huge figure. But one of the things that's so terrifying, sad about this is it's not shocking. The last five years, the increasing intensity that every election, the other side is an existential threat to the world, that they're scum, that they're Hitler, that they have to be defeated. We talk about it on this show, right? And so I'm heartbroken. As you said, Mark, we don't even know who did it. We both assume that the reason whoever targeted Charlie Kirk is because he's political. I assume that the person who went after Paul Pelosi did it because he's married to Nancy Pelosi. I just assume that, Right? And so it's hard. It's a terrible event. And I hope that what comes out of this is people learn who Charlie was and what an amazing contributor he was to politics. But to say, as I've heard from people, as we heard from the president last night, that the left, both sides, intensity is out of control. It is.

[C]

So if I just. One thing that's unique about Charlie that I want to make sure people understand. I mean, and it's been said. So this isn't. This is me kind of regurgitating some other, better people. We have figures on both sides that are. I mean, whether it's AOC or Rachel Maddow on the left that. That are loud voices, influential voices. Two things about Charlie. One, he led a movement. It wasn't that. He just. Actually, I mean, to. To your point, my kids were in the same boat. When they came home, they were like, did you hear about Charlie? I'm like, are you kidding me? Like, this is the. I. I didn't believe. I couldn't believe that the. Of age that he transcends. But secondly, and this is the thing, the why, right? So take your Rachel Maddow and your AOC on your side and pick Glenn Beck and Tucker on ours. Okay, fine. Unbelievable Influence. Influence. Influential voices. But neither of them lead a real movement. I mean, in terms of what Charlie's doing on campuses. But here's the other thing, the why. What was he doing on campus? Literally saying, challenge me. Come up. Let's have a conversation. Let's have a dialog blog. Let's do this stuff. This is what we do. Every day to try to say, let's have a discussion about stuff. He literally brought people into the fold and said, tell me why I'm wrong. What do you disagree with me about? I'll give you the microphone. I'll let you speak unencumbered. That's a. Just a different animal. I mean, there are. Like you said, there are people that are doing horrible things a lot. I mean, we had Gretchen Whitmer attacked on your side, Josh Shapiro, the governor. But this is an attack on a movement.

[B]

I hear you that he is a incredibly influential figure within the movement. I hear you on that. I just think that this has been building in our politics to where both sides paint the other as. They have to be stopped. They have to be.

[C]

But, Dan, do you understand the difference here? Just real quick, your. And I don't mean to make. Because it's not. This is not your and my. But like the left says, you can't discuss things if you don't use.

[A]

Guys, hold on. I apologize. Let's take the press conference and see what they're saying. Sorry.

[D]

Go ahead with people and that investigative process. They don't deserve that harassment for. For being subject to that. I'd like to thank all the investigators that are involved in this. They have worked around the clock all day yesterday through the night last night. Investigators from the state bureau of Investigations, from county, from city agencies, the university, our federal partners with the FBI, the ATF and many others. Those are just a few of the people that we have involved in this. I'd like to thank all of them for their. For their strong work. Through all that work last night, we were able to make a few breakthroughs. We were able to track the movements of the shooter. Starting at 11:52am this subject arrived on campus shortly away from campus. We have tracked his movements onto the campus, through the stairwells, up to the roof, across the roof to a shooting location. After the shooting, we were able to track his movements as he moved to the other side of the building, jumped off of the building and fled off of the campus and into a neighborhood. Our investigators have worked through those neighborhoods, contacting anybody they can with doorbell cameras, witnesses, and have thoroughly worked through those communities trying to identify and leads. We do have good video footage of this individual. We are not going to release that at this time. We are working through some technologies and some ways to identify this individual. If we are unsuccessful, we will reach out to you as the media and we will push that publicly to help us identify them. But we are confident in our abilities Right now. And we would like to move forward in a manner that keeps everyone safe and moves this process appropriately. Last night, I communicated with Erica. That family's devastated. As a commissioner of public safety, as a father, as a husband, I can only imagine what that family is going through. The heinous event that happened yesterday is not Utah. This is not what we're known for. Over the past several weeks, we've seen this state come together to help families in mourning come together as a community to show what Utah is known for, for a state of character, of service, of camaraderie, of a neighboring feel. We will not stand for what happened yesterday. We are exhausting every lead we have, every. Every officer invested in this, every investigator, every local agency. The outpouring of support from the law enforcement community has been astounding. We are investing everything we have into this, and we will catch this individual. Having walked through the crime scene, through the hallways of this school, through the classrooms, I can't imagine what the people on scene felt as. As well, a horrific event where some of them barricaded in classrooms, some of them ran.

[A]

Okay, we'll keep monitoring. This is a commissioner of public safety from Utah says they have the suspect movements, but not the suspect identification. And we'll keep monitoring that. And guys will turn around some sound bites if, particularly during the Q and A, let us know if we need to go back to it. Okay. There's lots we could talk about. And again, I apologize for interrupting. Sean, before we go to hands up, and there are lots of hands up and we want to get to lots of people today. So would you want to introduce any new topics related to this, or would you like to just go to community members?

[C]

Go ahead.

[A]

Okay, Dan. Good. Okay. Again, I ask everybody. Respect. We want to hear from everybody. Ask you to be relatively brief because we've got, I'd say, a record number of hands up. And this is a unique opportunity for folks to share what they're thinking. So come on in. Just tell us quickly where you are and what's on your mind. Celia, welcome back to Two Ways. Thank you. What's up? What's. What's on your mind?

[E]

Good morning, guys. Well, morning. I was. Am pretty stunned, honestly, by my reaction to this. Gosh, I just feel so bad for those freaking kids. But I. I wasn't really a fan of his. I enjoyed his content when you guys.

[B]

Would have him on.

[E]

And Mark, I'm really grateful. And Dan, you two, for you guys coming on and being with us yesterday and giving us an opportunity to Listen and engage. I guess I don't really have a question. I just kind of have a plea. I know a lot of really powerful media, politicians, whatever, listen to this. And as someone who comes from the right, we're just begging to be heard and to be understood in our words and not to be represented through someone that hasn't spoken to a Trump voter, doesn't live around them. I appreciate what CNN has done with Scott Jennings. I think he's awesome. He's just so outnumbered. And I'm just. For the sake of this country, I really, really hope that we can get to a place where I'm not spending my morning deleting Facebook friends because it's just glorifying what happened yesterday. And I honestly think, I don't blame them because if you don't know what your opposition is and what they're really like, how can I blame you for dehumanizing them? I just really, really hope that we can actually open this dialogue a little bit more and get some good faith representation in from the right.

[A]

So, yeah, thank you, Dan. Thank you for that.

[B]

Yeah, it's, it's, it's well said. I, I've said for a while that people should always ask, you know, why is Trump popular? Be empathetic, walk in their shoes. And there are a lot of people on the left who will not engage in that conversation. That it is brutal.

[C]

Sean, by the way, just real quick, the FBI is reporting they have recovered the weapon. So that's a positive start. Thank you for coming on. Celia.

[A]

Celia, is there anything specific you think you'd like people to do besides just show more understanding and better representation in Public Square?

[E]

I mean, I think we should all take a page out of Charlie's book and just really try to start opening up the dialogue a little bit more. And I mean, especially just for people on here, we all have neighbors and friends and coworkers that we don't agree with. And I just, I don't know how we get there. I mean, if someone had a solution, I think it would have been tried and executed already. I just, I don't know. I'm at a loss.

[C]

I will say this. When I left the administration for a year and a half, I probably did 15 college campuses. There wasn't one where the first discussion was security, what was being taken, what the outroutes were, what we were doing, how many times they could, what, what level which we would result in a law enforcement action, what was permitted that they could throw or hit or touch before they did anything. I I just, we. Everyone wants to say, like, oh, I hope we can take the temperature down. When I showed up on most campuses, the number one question I would ask is how many conservatives have ever been on campus before? If it wasn't for organizations like Young America's foundation, that would pay for it. The answer was usually zero.

[A]

Right.

[C]

And like I said, the conversation was always, here's what the security plan is. Here's how many people are going to be where they're going to be posted. Here's the out room. Here's the room that will pull you into if something of that's not normal.

[A]

Yeah, here's. Here's a construct. Sorry. Here's a constructive idea from Ari Fleischer, who served in the Bush administration. Put up number 108, please. And any of you who have access to or influence in university communities would love for you to take up Ari's idea. It's so brilliant and it speaks to what Sean was talking about. In memory. This is Ari's tweet trying to get Ari on two way today. If he can do it. In memory of Charlie. I urge every American major American university, especially the Ivy League and New England small liberal arts colleges, to invite conservative speakers to their campuses and to welcome them. Academia cannot be a no go zone for conservatives. Charlie would welcome this. It will help heal the country. Let me just finish it. Sorry. It will help heal the country if the liberal left that dominates colleges actively reaches out and peacefully welcomes the right.

[C]

Sean, I have a lot of respect for Ari. He's been a mentor and a friend for most of my life, starting when I was on the Hill. Respectfully, I was a fellow at Harvard. When I showed up, I had an arm detail the entire time. They think this is not like this idea that, oh, we should just go. Number one, they don't invite us. Number two, when we go, it's an active threat.

[A]

Well, invite them. Invite them and get the Democratic Club to sponsor them. Provide whatever security is needed, form human chain, whatever it is. But we can't. We can't just say you can't fix it. We can't say conservatives shouldn't be on campus.

[B]

I think he was at a conservative college. He was not at Harvard.

[A]

Well, I understand, but that. What Ari is saying is let's end Sean's concern, rightful concern. Okay? And let's have every one of those liberal schools have someone like Charlie come with appropriate security and a warm reception so that Charlie's vision of ideas mattering, what he died doing can be. Can be can be seen visibly and change the culture.

[B]

Well, yeah. Yeah. Yes. And I think part of that culture is one of the things we've talked about is the number of federal judges pleading for more security. Pleading. Like, Sean, we were talking about this before about why didn't Charlie Kirk have more security? Members of Congress are begging for more security because of all the death threats they're getting. Right. You have these judges. The CDC was shot up. We. We blew past it on this show. I think we mentioned it five seconds, but we moved on. The culture now is such outrage if Planned Parenthood's being bombed, but we blow past it.

[A]

So thank you.

[B]

I mean, no, but my point is to say I just come back to. The rhetoric on both sides is so out of control. I retweeted last night, Bill Clinton, Barack Obama, and George W. Bush. Look at their statements.

[A]

Yeah. And look at how. And I'm not singling them out, except you raise them. Look at what they said about Charlie Kirk and his free speech rights before he was killed. Nothing.

[B]

Look, nothing. That. Both sides have worried about this for years. One of the things that Michelle Obama will never forgive certain people for is that they feared for Obama's life because he was seen as illegitimate. Okay. They received death threats, lots of them. Right. Both sides have been using conflict and intensity to fire people up. I get. It's politics. I love the sport. But we all know crazy people hear that stuff and think I. I should do my part. Do we all not agree that crazy people hear rhetoric on cable tv?

[A]

Of course.

[C]

A question. Hold on. I just want to test this. I'm not. Look, I. I feel like this is one of those. If. Let me ask you a question, Dan. You want to. You and I. You pick the school. Your choice. Any school in the country. Would you feel safe walking. You named the institution. Would you walk on that campus and feel safe or unsafe? You can pick anyone you want.

[B]

Not me, but could I name certain Democrats that. I'd worry if they walked on conservative campuses? I would. Sean, if Ilyar Oman went and spoke at certain colleges, do you think she'd need security? Probably, yeah.

[A]

Okay, Matthew, welcome in.

[F]

Good morning, everyone. This.

[A]

I'm.

[F]

I'm shocked at how much this kind of resonated with me. I take in a lot of content, and my wife is asking me, why does this bother you so much? And I. I had a hard time explaining it, and I think, Sean, you're. You're partially right. It is a movement that was attacked, and it. It's just. It's awful. But he was more than a, than a commentator. He was more than a pundit taking potshots at people. And of course, having a family makes. It, Makes it sad. It made me appreciate my, my family. Dan and Sean, your, Your job, you, you are political operatives. And Sean, your job is to make Republicans look good during bad times. And, Dan, your job is to make Democrats look good during bad times. I, I was on once before, and Dan, I, I called you out for, for telling me that my, my, what I was seeing wasn't real and it had to do with the Russia gate. I'm not equating the two in any way, but I, I tried to convey to you when I'm told that something is true that I know is not true or that isn't important, that I know is important, it really, it, it affects me. And you've. Dan, I understand the position that you're in, but when you, when I'm constantly told, well, both sides need to take down the rhetoric, I'm like.

[A]

That.

[F]

That's not where we are as a, as a, as a country. And yes, I'm sure you could find college campuses where Johan Omar is not, doesn't feel safe going in there, but we can run down the litany of people who are attacked because they're, they.

[A]

Are told, Matthew, Matthew, I'm sorry, I just got to stop you. Paul Pelosi was attacked and the President, United States mocked it. Just as I'm asking people on the left to appreciate why there's so much anger about what happened yesterday. You have to. You have to. The speaker of the House's husband was brutally attacked, and the Republican president mocked it, and family members of his mocked him. And if. So, if you want to, if you want to, if you want to play this game. And again, I'm not directing this to you. If people want to play this game of saying it's all the left, it's decades of the left attacking conservatives on college campuses. Guilty as charged. All the left not being sensitive when President Trump was almost assassinated. Guilty as charged. But do not play this game, people of saying one side has clean hands. I can give you other examples. I thought that's what you were saying.

[B]

You said kind of, and I remember this about Russiagate, and you're like, you know, you're telling me not to believe my lying eyes type of thing. Right?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

On the left, they would look you square in the eye and say January 6th. And you told me that that's peace, love and understanding. Right. I'm not saying you. I'm not saying you, but I am not in any way, shape or form condoning what happened. It's horrific. But just as the left does not understand why the right is outraged, the right does not understand why the left gets outraged. Both sides are so intense with it's the end of the world if they win. They have to be defeated. We have to get those scum of the earth or Hitler. I mean how? Just go to X, go to Truth Social. It's everywhere. Our side overlooks it to Mark's point. And the right overlooks stuff on the other side.

[C]

Okay, here's the thing. I, Sean and Matthew, there are examples. I, I don't disagree. What happened to Paul Pelosi in some of the outrage. The same thing with Josh Shapiro. The same thing with Gretchen Whitmer. I don't excuse it, I don't excuse some of the comments.

[A]

Do you excuse the bread? Do you excuse the President mocking Paul?

[C]

No, we should never. I don't care if someone falls on their face by themselves. We should never. When someone is hurt, they need comfort and aid not being mocked. So I, I'm not. Again, I will never defend anybody who, you know, who without it being deserved. But like I don't want anyone to get hurt. That's not my goal. That's not what I think anyone's goal should be. But I do think that understanding there's a difference for claiming that because two sides get hurt or say stupid shit that it's equal is not true. We on the right have been canceled, censored for decades, told that we can't go there, shut out of events, literally told that we can't take jobs, movements happened because of this. That is not the same. And again we're trying to go, yeah, well you guys got someone made fun of or mocked you after a violent act on that side. This is not the same. This is a decades long problem where we are told we're not good enough. We need to apologize, we can't show up somewhere we'll be kicked out of a place. That is not the same.

[A]

You're correct.

[F]

And Mark, I know you weren't suggesting as much and Dan, I know you weren't suggesting as much, but, but when I say that the, the political violence seems to exist on one side and not the other and your response is what about that crazy guy that was found and that attacked Paul Pelosi? I know you're not suggesting that that's the same as repeated premeditated murder against politicians. Well, because it's not.

[A]

Well, but, but Matthew, we don't know the motive of the person who tried to shoot President Trump in Pennsylvania.

[C]

Why? But that's why.

[A]

Well, I don't know.

[B]

Later, I don't know.

[A]

But Donald Trump's been president for, I mean, that's the thing, Sean. He's had nine months to tell us what the motive, we don't know what the motive is today.

[B]

Matthew, Matthew, the fact that on the right, the immediate response was Democrats tried to kill the President when we have no idea tells you everything about the current state of the politics. We don't know who this guy is. We don't know. He could be seeing aliens from Mars. Right? We don't. Or as Trump likes to say, it could be the fat guy in his basement. Right? We don't. No, but the knee jerk reaction in this climate is get them. And I know that if it had happened on the left, as you, as you guys started off this today saying the left in the New York Times would have a blowtorch in the other direction. And what made me so goddamn depressed last night and I shut X off and I couldn't take texts from everybody here anymore, was you knew this was going to happen. You knew it. You just knew. The moment I saw Charlie Kirk, the reason I said, oh my God is the wheel went.

[A]

Matthew, Matthew, I apologize if I mischaracterized what you said, but I'm pretty sure I understood the heart of it. And, and I agree with Sean wholeheartedly. If you watch me on anything, you know, I agree with him. Decades of a pattern of abuse and discrimination and cancellation. That's, you know, you're right, Sean. It's 100. Right. But, but.

[B]

You're right.

[A]

But, but if, if where we're headed now in the wake of Charlie's death is to ball up decades of anger and say we're going to destroy the left over this, it has to be mitigated by the left, understanding, has to be. But it also has to be mitigated by you guys. Matthew. And I say respectfully, not saying this is so. The injustice is so asymmetrical that we shouldn't, we shouldn't pay attention to why the left's upset. That will not end well for America. If that's our attitude, why can't we.

[F]

Say it's asymmetrical and why can't the left say, you know what, Some of.

[A]

It, some of it say some of it's asymmetrical? The stuff Sean has said is asymmetrical. Absolutely. The media bias asymmetrical. But academia. All asymmetrical. All asymmetrical. But you cannot say that January 6th is not asymmetrical. You cannot say convincing a large number of Republicans that the election in 2020 was stolen is not asymmetrical. These are asymmetrical, too. And. And if you think that America's path forward is saying their injustices, the injustices that we felt are so much worse.

[B]

Right.

[A]

That we're going to war over it, that's not the right path. We. That won't end well for America.

[B]

Tried to kill.

[A]

Not honor Johnny's. It will not honor. It will not honor Charlie's memory. If the path forward is their injustices are so asymmetrically worse that we're just going to kill them. Not literally, but politically, that will not end well. So you can say, you can. You can make your faces. And again, I'm sorry to be emotional about it. You. You can look at me like I'm nuts, but I'm telling you, it is. It is not right. Just as it's not right for the left, including the media, to ignore 50% of the country and their feelings and their straw and their thoughts. It's wrong for you all to do it, too. Just. They have a point of view. I know what your point of view is about a lot of their positions. But. But some of their positions, like January six and election denialism and mocking Paul Pelosi is being attacked. Some of that is legit, to say the least.

[F]

Killer problem with the fringe left. That is terrifying.

[B]

I would say understand that to the left, the fringe right is terrifying. I mean, look, you roll your eyes.

[F]

I don't mean to be dismissive, and I understand that.

[B]

Matthew, I don't mean that. Look, I have thousands of friends who work in the US Capitol, right? They tried to kill Paul Pence and. Or Mike Pence and Nancy Pelosi. They did. And to the far left and to the. Not the far left. To the left. It was over a lie to steal the election. Okay. Now, I don't want to get into a debate about this. Right. But to turn around and then have. Literally, it was a love fest. To the left. It is. You're telling me not to believe my lying eyes.

[F]

I'm not, Matthew.

[B]

I'm not saying.

[A]

You're saying you. Matthew, we got. We got to move on. But. But again, I apologize. And I'll do it on behalf of Dan, too, if we mischaracterize, if we read wrong things to what you said. Apologize. But very grateful to you coming on.

[F]

Thank you very much.

[A]

I love your tone, and I love your part. Perseverance. And. And I love how strong you feel about it. And you're speaking for tens of millions, and we always respect that. Thank you. Lisa, welcome. And tell folks where you are. What's on your mind, please.

[G]

Columbia, Missouri. Thank you for having me. I can't hear you.

[B]

We hear you.

[A]

We hear you.

[G]

Oh, there you are. Okay, you know, I'm sorry, but you cannot run around screaming hysterically that everybody who's done a subservient little for the Democrat party is a Nazi, fascist, extremist, deplorable threat to the country and not expecting something horrific to happen. Dan po p Paul Pelosi's attacker had BLM posters at his house. He was a random whack job. You cannot dehumanize millions of Americans and say, hey, they're a problem. They're deplorable. They're extremists for years and not have something like this happen.

[A]

Okay, Lisa, let's let Dan respond and then Sean, Dan.

[B]

Lisa, Lisa, hold on, hold on. So, Lisa, I agree with you, and I've said repeatedly on the show that calling Trump Hitler is absurd. Right? He's not. When people say country. So, Lisa, do Republicans say that Democrats are scum of the earth?

[E]

This is the second.

[A]

Lisa, Lisa, Lisa, Lisa, Lisa, Lisa, Lisa. Appreciate the country, Lisa. Appreciate how passionate you are.

[B]

I love this because I love politics. So I listen to cable news. I listen to elected officials. I look at X. Right. And what I. Okay. I see constantly, the Democrats are destroying the soul of this country. We must stop them. Now, you. Most people would think that means at the ballot box. Do I?

[G]

It does. Mostly do.

[B]

I'm getting text messages. God bless my mother and sisters who are sending me things from the right that they want to take it out. An eye for an eye. And they're like, be careful on your run in Central Park.

[G]

Well, you are in New York, but I'm not going to excuse any of that.

[B]

But do I? The point is both sides rhetoric is.

[G]

So not both sides. This is not both sides. This is not both sides. Biden, who was dehumanizing everybody who didn't vote for him.

[B]

I believe both sides have gone after the other voters.

[G]

You can go after each other without saying they're a threat to the country.

[A]

But, Lisa, all. All you're doing is seizing on one very, very, no, very, very important. Asymmetry. Asymmetry. You're citing calling the other side Hitler. Really important. No one's diminishing That I don't believe. But there are asymmetry equivalent to the.

[G]

Monsters who put everybody innocent Jews in ovens just because we don't kiss Democrat Party ass.

[A]

All right, thank you for coming on. Grateful to you. You speak for tens of millions. Logan, welcome in. Tell folks where you are, what's on your mind. For Sean and Dan, please.

[C]

Hi, I'm in Tallahassee. I'd met Charlie a few times. I went to University of Florida. I got a picture with him right here. I do think this is a both sides issue. I feel like the nature of how politicians talk about the other side. If you were to boil down essentially how the right talks about the left to me, and I'm sure, you know, Dan will probably have a different thought. I feel like it can generally be boiled down to crazy. That's how the right talks about the left. They're dangerous because their ideas are crazy. When you look at how the left talks about the right, it can generally be boiled down to one or two words. Pick your choosing. Evil or hateful. They're dangerous because his ideas are evil, hateful, racist. And comparing those two words, I mean, which one of those two is more actionable? Which one of those is more of a call to action? We can point to Paul Pelosi, but you can point to Brett Kavanaugh. You could point to the congressional baseball.

[A]

How about January 6th and election denialism. You point to that? Absolutely.

[C]

That, that was, that was horrific. And I, I had stepped away from politics for the longest time because I thought that was atrocious.

[A]

Right. So again, again, I just, I just, there's a little repetitious, but I'll just say, okay, I, I, I, I, I, I. A huge project that's immediate now, because if we, if the left does not understand more about why Charlie was so important, we're going to have an explosion in this country because the anger is coming on the right. But you all need to do your part, too. You all need to do your part, too and not just say, oh, January 6th was unfortunate, horrible day. That's an asymmetry. Dan, Dan, hold on. Sean, thoughts?

[C]

Sean, Let Dan go first.

[A]

He's. Okay, go ahead.

[B]

Oh, I, I, I think, I mean, again, I think both sides look at the other and say some stuff is crazy. I think both sides say the other side is evil. Right. I think the way people have talked about immigrants at times has crossed from a policy debate to way more than that. I think sometimes when people talk about transgender stuff, not on this show, some people take it way more than just a policy dispute. Right. And again, I go back to. It just takes one crazy person to hear a call to arms, so to speak, and say, I'm joining the army, I'm going to sacrifice myself. And it scares the hell out of people. Democrats for eight years thought Barack Obama could get shot. And it was. They thought. And there were attempts. Someone broke into the White House once wielding a knife. I mean, it's tragic that Charlie was the one who has been killed. And I get it, and I get who he was and I get his importance to the movement. It's heartbreaking.

[C]

Sean Logan, you went to. Where would you go to the University of Florida. Is that what you said? Let me ask you a question. Someone walked around campus with Obama or Biden hat or T shirt, would they feel safe?

[B]

He's muted.

[C]

He's not muted or he needs to unmute.

[A]

Sorry about that. Go ahead.

[C]

No doubt. Okay. If they walked around with a red make America great hat, would they feel safe? It's probably a little different than it was. It's not probably years ago, all due respect.

[A]

No, no. What he's saying is it's not as dangerous now as it would have been five years ago.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe it's a little less dangerous now. You. As I said, Charlie spent his time on campuses for a reason. Conservatives are not allowed on campuses. They are shut out. They are literally not allowed. Been canceled. I've had more events that you are told, sorry, we can't handle la da da da. But they have no problem having some random leftist. You look at corporate America where they have literally made it very clear that your views and your positions are not welcome. And if you don't adhere to a DEI woke agenda by using pronouns in your emails, you will suffer HR consequences. You look at what Hollywood late night the media has done. Think about Tom Cotton. He proposed an op ed in the New York Times and people went apoplectic, fired people because you can't dare have a different voice. The big difference in this entire debate is that I have no problem listening to someone on the left. I have no problem with dissenting voices. The left will not allow people on the right to speak their mind or have a voice. So this whole argument about both sides. I can coexist with people on the left. God knows there's plenty of them. I live in Northern Virginia. But the people on the left don't want to coexist with people on the right. That is the fundamental difference in this and the entire reason that Charlie Kirk did what he did was to bring a voice that was missing from the dialogue. That's the difference. This isn't of both sides. We're not equal. And this idea, yes, there's violence, yes, there's rhetoric on both sides. I have freely admit that. But the idea that we're even close to being equal. The left controls every major institution in this country and shuts out anyone on the right who has a dissenting view. Think about all of the tech. I mean, between technology, academia, Hollywood, government, big corporate America, it's all entirely not just run by the left, but to silence the right. This is not even close to being equal.

[A]

Logan. Thank you. Mallory. Welcome in.

[G]

Hi. I'm so glad that I got on today because I've had a lot of feelings about all of this, and I think it's actually been really helpful to listen to Sean talk about why he's so upset. And obviously, we're all upset that somebody was murdered. I. The gun violence in this country, the violence in general, it really shakes me up. It makes me so freaked out. I feel like I can't go to a shopping mall anymore. I'm nervous. So initially that was my first thought. But I'm happy that I'm listening to all of this to understand, because I think it is helpful, because my initiative, my initial thought was, there is violence on both sides. Just back in July, the Speaker of the House in Minnesota was murdered. Her husband was murdered. A state senator was murdered. They were all Democrats. There was a man who had a list of people he was trying to murder. And I was like, where were the prayers for those families? Because nobody on my Instagram was posting about that. They were all posting about Charlie Kirk. And I felt like, oh, you know, it's happening on both sides. And I think it is happening on both sides in terms of violence. But I think it's been helpful to me to listen to the way that Sean described it, because. And I'm not trying to. I hope this doesn't inflame. I'm not trying to make a. You know, I'm not trying to create another issue in all of this, but it reminded me of when the Black Lives Matter movement was going and people said, black Lives Matter. And other people said, well, all lives matter. So to me, it almost feels like, okay, I get it. Like, he's saying, hey, we're being persecuted. And somebody's responding and saying, well, we're all being persecuted. So I guess when I put it like that and I listened to Sean, I thought, that makes sense. I can understand now A little bit more. Even though I didn't agree with Charlie Kirk, even though I feel like there's violence on both sides, I'm glad that I understand that more now. That being said, I live in a predominantly Republican area. I was a Republican before I went to college. I became much stronger Republican in college. I started moving away from the party in probably 2016. Sometimes I still do vote Republican, but for the most part, I find myself solidly in the middle. And the one thing that I feel being surrounded by Republicans is the same thing Sean just said, is that nobody wants to have Republican voices, nobody wants to hear the other side. And I feel like I'm constantly fighting that same battle that nobody wants to hear the other side of things or why I would feel the way I feel about things. And so, you know, I think it's just a very fascinating conversation and I'm thankful to be able to have it. And I think it's so important that we're, we're doing this. I don't know, I just, I just. It is important, I think, to remember, though, that like, we need to understand why the Republicans have gotten so upset and feel like they've been silenced. Because it is, I mean, in the media, in the movies, in Hollywood and academia, I see that and I think that does need to change. But I think Dan is also right in the sense that there is an insane amount of volatility between both parties and it's resulting in violence on both sides. And I think that is something that we need to work towards fixing.

[A]

Valerie, thank you. Really appreciate it. Mallory, thank you. Let's bring the Taylors. Chris Taylor, guest. Valerie, thank you. Yeah, sorry, this is, this is Abby. Abby. I think she was on last time when we were in, she was in the Philippines. Yes. So obviously we loved Charlie. I don't think Abby ever went, but we had kids go to some of his events. We like that he had the evangelical like, self sacrificing nature. Like he, he, he, he wanted to both do a political thing, but then also do a gospel thing. So we, we appreciate that part.

[B]

To.

[A]

On the, on what's going on with this conversation this morning. And maybe Abby can fill in, but I've never shared who I work for because I work for one of the big four accounting firms. I'd get fired if they knew I was conservative. Like, I cannot say anything at work. I like I'm, now that I've spoken.

[B]

Up, I might get fired.

[A]

Like, this is, I feel like the asymmetry here is way out of control. Like, wait, I'm. So I agree that we on the right have our radical hate mongers. That. That's not, I'm not trying to deny that. But like in the middle, you can't be middle conservative. You will get ostracized.

[B]

Yeah.

[G]

No, it's true.

[A]

Yeah, Dan or Sean, rather. Sorry, Sean.

[C]

No, he's right. That's the point is that when you actually can't admit that you hold certain views and that's a problem. That is a problem. And that's not the same thing. You can proudly show up at work with an Obama hat on or a Black Lives Matter shirt or rainbow flag or Greenpeace and it'll be like, oh, Bob, can I join too? If you showed up with a red MAGA hat, you will be escorted outside. And that's a very. There's just no. If people don't get that. That's the fundamental. Dan look. If you don't get that that's a problem that you couldn't walk into a. If you said during an interview, oh yeah, I voted for Trump, I supported Trump in most major corporations, they'd say, thank you.

[B]

Not anymore. I don't believe that. And in fact, I'll flip it around on you, Sean. If you walked into Washington D.C. with Kamala Harris hat on, how would you be treated?

[C]

But that's different because she ran a crap.

[B]

Hold on a second. I got a couple of friends.

[C]

People might mock you because she ran a bad campaign.

[B]

People are getting fired.

[A]

Hold on, hold on. Mindful of the clock.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Taylors, thank you. Grateful to you Moren for they don't know. Maureen used to be in the FBI and she's going to tell us studio today. What's. What's going on in the investigation? Maureen, what's your sense of. They what. First of all, why they pick up two people who they said were persons of interest to turn to, had nothing to do with it. How did that, how does that happen?

[C]

Please.

[H]

It happens very easily. A witness there at the scene said, hey, this guy over here was acting suspiciously, blah, blah, blah. And of course they're gonna, they're gonna run every lead to ground. So that's exactly how that happened.

[A]

Well, but why do they. I'm sorry, Marine, I'm sorry to interrupt. I'm just trying to learn. Why do they announce it?

[H]

Well, they had a, they had a guy in custody for, for all we know, there could be 10 people involved in this, in this event. So I, you know, I, I don't like, I can, I'm just Going to come right out and say I do not like how the media portion of this event has been handled at all. I'm not, not a fan, however, except for today. I like today. I like the pro, the pressers that they're doing. Those are good. But I first want to say before we get into the investigation that Charlie Kirk was a beacon of bravery. I mean he was a brave beacon of just free speech. And him getting killed, assassinated isn't just someone on the right getting assassinated. It's a terrorist attack telling all of us to shut the up about what we believe. That's what this is. Yeah, this, this isn't just Paul Pelosi gets beat up in his house, which is terrible for anyone to suffer that type of thing. To equate those two things is just something else to me now to the investigation. I think how they found this guy was they looked for all the pre incident indicators. I've been involved in a lot of events. Like we in Los Angeles FBI, we do all the award shows, everything from the Academy Awards, the Grammys and the Rose Bowl. It's a lot of threat stuff we deal with and we go to meetings beforehand and we look for things and we understand what the threatscape is to a pretty good detail. I think they looked at all the. Because this was a planned event, make no mistake. This did not just, you know, happen organically. This had been planned for quite some time. This is someone that was familiar with the campus either from being there or because they wanted to kill Charlie Kirk. This someone said earlier about, oh, a conservative campus or Dan said it well, this is a conservative campus and it happened there. Yeah, that's gonna be considered more of a soft target. Dan, when you go to a place where people's guard might be down a little bit more, that's kind of what you want. And to a certain extent in Butler, Pennsylvania, it was a softer target because I think everybody thought that it would be a bunch of, you know, maga. It's going to be a bunch of MAGA supporters. They're going to be, you know, watching out for President Trump.

[A]

But yeah, Maureen, mindful of the time, I just want to ask you one, one question and you may tell me if the premise is so absurd you don't want to answer. Maybe there's a little bit of a continuum here, but it seems to me more of a binary. The killer is either a mastermind, total rational actor on a political mission, or a crazy person. That is that roughly fair or not necessarily.

[H]

Not necessarily at all.

[A]

Okay. How common Is it for someone who's totally crazy, just a crazy person, not a, not with a political agenda, to be able to elude law enforcement for this long?

[H]

Well, when you're that crazy, you tend to make mistakes. This person did a lot of things the way, you know, in a way that, that allowed them to evade. He could have just walked off in, you know, he was dressed in black when he came in and he had a change of clothing in his backpack and he had a collapsible. Collapsible stock on his weapon system and he put that in the back hat, backpack and you know, changed his appearance and just walked off with everybody else.

[A]

But could, could typically, would a crazy person be able to do all those things so effectively?

[H]

Well, it depends on what type of crazy we're talking about. Yes, someone crazy could, but I don't think that this is, I don't think that's what we're looking at, Mark. I think we're looking at someone that just, just was hell bent on this assassination, on stifling a whole movement.

[C]

Yeah, Sean, just a couple points of clarity with a scope, anyone that has decent target practice could have taken that shot.

[B]

True, true. Right.

[C]

Secondly, to Mark's point, to escape undetected from an elevated site, if it's the roof, would have been something that would have had to be pre planned, correct?

[H]

Absolutely, 100%. They would have had to bend. They would have had to go there previously to find their egress route. Where am I going to park? How am I going to get up to the roof? What's it going to look like? How am I going to change my, my, the vehicle, whatever there's. So I think they went to the pre incident to look at all the video surveillance of who was in that exact area beforehand. Because someone had to, you know, do pre planning and, and get there in the days prior. Now the other thing is they had to actually get there once the tent was put up. Once they put the tent up. Now you have target acquisition and that's what you're, that's what they're looking for.

[A]

Dan, do you got a question you want to ask? Okay. Maureen, grateful to you, thank you for coming on. Thank you again. Lots of hands up, but we're at time and I want to respect that. Sean, what will we be doing on your program tonight?

[C]

We've got a panel. Susan Crabtree, who's done a lot of law enforcement investigation, is going to join us. Haley Cornea and Rob Bluey from the Heritage foundation, obviously talking a lot about this I want to make one point. I'll make it quick. When I looked back through my text with Charlie, every one of them was me asking him for something. Can you come on my show? Can you endorse this? Can you help me do this? It was all one way and every response was yes. Every time I asked that guy for something, he said yes. And it was so embarrassing because I was like, God, I never said, can I help you for anything. That's who he was.

[A]

Three two ways today, four o'. Clock. Dan and his colleagues on the group chat. Kill that audio, please. Group chat, 4pm Michael Moynihan, 7 o' clock and I'll be on at 6 o'. Clock. Two way tonight. We'll have more about Charlie and what's developed today as well as 911 events later today. Next up, we'll drop Megan Kelly will join me to talk about Charlie, who she knew well. Robert Pape, professor at the University of Chicago, one of the country's leading experts on political violence, will join me. And our folks have rounded up some of the highlights of my conversations with Charlie over the last year or so, both on two ways and on next up. So we'll have a little bit of Charlie's voice, a lot, actually, of Charlie's voice, including his talking about what he learned from Barack Obama and whether he would accept an invitation to have dinner with Kamala Harris and why he loved Rush Limbaugh, all sorts of things like that. So grateful to you all again. Apologize for running over. Apologize for getting to not as many of you as hands up. But we'll continue the conversation tonight at 6 Eastern. And of course, the three of us will be back in a little less than 23 hours. Grateful to you all for the tone of this and and we are determined to be productive, to be part of bringing the temperature down and for mutual understanding, peace, love and understanding for what is going to be a difficult time for the country no matter who was the person who assassinated Charlie. Have a good day, everybody. We'll see you tomorrow.