Democratic Power Broker Larry Summers, Brought Down by Ties to Epstein, Quits Open AI Board in Shame

Summary

2WAY Morning Meeting — Episode Summary

Podcast: 2WAY Morning Meeting
Date: November 19, 2025
Episode Title: Democratic Power Broker Larry Summers, Brought Down by Ties to Epstein, Quits Open AI Board in Shame
Hosts: Mark Halperin, Sean Spicer, Dan Turrentine
Special Guests: Eric Wagman (Tampa Bay, FL), Amanda (Central Valley, CA), Paul (Bradenton, FL), Brandon (Rhode Island)

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Overview

This episode dives deep into the turmoil surrounding Larry Summers’ resignation from the OpenAI board amidst controversy over his past ties to Jeffrey Epstein, and analyzes how this connects to a broader reckoning for Democratic elites. The panel also breaks down the 2028 political landscape, new economic and polling data, media coverage of key politicians, Ukraine and Venezuela geopolitics, California’s governor’s race, and takes audience questions on political leadership, the Epstein files, and more.

The conversation is candid, surprising, and offers an insider perspective on the emerging stories shaping American politics and the news cycle.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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1. Centrist Politics & 2028 Presidential Field

(Starts ~03:13)

• Eric Wagman opens with a key question reflecting centrist frustration: What would it take for a moderate, pragmatic candidate to succeed in today's polarized climate?
  • Eric (04:19): “I really was disappointed that [Rubio] jumped into the mud with Trump... I wish he would have stayed more moderate, dare I say reasonable or adult... But he plays in the real world.”
  • Both panelists agree: structural issues like primaries and party apparatus make it hard for moderate candidates, despite apparent appetite.

Dan:

• “You will have a candidate like that to choose from when the electorate rewards candidates for that... the electorate may be craving the opposite in personality and style [after a long stretch with one kind of president].” (05:31)

Sean:

• “Getting through a primary is what really matters... what is practical, who can raise the money, build a team, and actually survive the process?” (07:52)
• “History just isn’t on [somebody from the House]’s side... It’s like talking about the electoral college and faithless electors — fun hypotheticals, never how it plays out.” (08:28)

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2. Breaking News & The National Daybook

(10:35–16:11)

• NYPD Commissioner Jessica Tisch remains — described as a positive, strategic move.
• Tom Steyer launching another campaign, this time for California governor ("would you rank him as top tier? He'll have all the money...")
• Biden attends Saudi Investment Forum with major business leaders, including Elon Musk.
• Pressers from Pam Bondi & Kash Patel on international criminal groups expected to cover Epstein file questions.
• Big day for economic watchers: Nvidia’s earnings, delayed employment data, and uncertainty over AI-driven bubbles.
• There’s palpable tension over recession messaging, inflation, and the impact of tariffs — both parties’ strategies critiqued.

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3. Economic Anxiety and Political Risk

(16:11–21:08)

• Participants discuss conflicting signals in the economy.
  • Democrats blame Trump’s tariffs and deregulation.
  • Republicans point to mass government spending as the source of inflation.
• Memorable exchange:
  • Sean (19:05): “79 cents for a lemon. I was like—move to Manhattan. If I could find a lemon for 79 cents, I’d buy 100.”
• Consumer goods, groceries, utilities, and housing costs are identified as voter touchpoints for economic discontent.

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4. Polling: Trump Approval & The Generic Ballot

(24:24–27:03)

• New Reuters and Marist polls show:
  • Trump’s approval falls to a term low (38%) over prices and Epstein revelations.
  • Democrats hold a 14-point generic ballot advantage, suggesting potential wave conditions.
  • Dan: “Trump’s not going to be on the ballot... The problem is he’s being controlled by events.”
  • Sean: “If you’re beyond 10 going into a midterm, you’re in trouble... context matters, we’re coming off a shutdown and an Epstein week, but you’re not cratering.”

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5. Epstein Files, Larry Summers’ Downfall, and Democratic Double-Standards

(27:43–37:04; main topic)

• Mark: “Dan, name a Republican besides Trump who’s been linked to Epstein...?”
  • Dan is stumped; emphasizes both parties have connections but decries blaming Democrats solely.
• Mark highlights that Democrats, not Republicans, are publicly losing positions due to Epstein ties:
  • Larry Summers forced out at OpenAI, Center for American Progress, and possibly faces pressure from Harvard.
  • Hakeem Jeffries responds to news his firm solicited Epstein years ago: “I have no recollection of the email. I’ve never had a conversation with him, never met him.” (28:52)
  • Stacey Plaskett’s close ties also called out (“members protect members”).
• Sean: “There’s a difference between a mass fundraising email and real relationships... if you’re texting with Epstein, you can’t walk away from that.”
• Dan: “This was supposed to be a cudgel for Republicans to attack Democrats as harboring pedophiles—now it’s getting messy.”
• Will we see meaningful documents by Christmas?
  • Dan: “No.”
  • Sean: “Yes, but the juicy stuff won’t be there.”

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6. Ukraine, Venezuela, and Foreign Policy Gambits

(37:28–40:21)

• Panel speculates on possibility of a Ukraine deal or Venezuela coup by Christmas:
  • Dan: “No [Ukraine peace]. That story is embarrassing.”
  • Sean: “Zelensky may sign off, but will Russia hold to it?”
  • Reports that US is leaking stories of Ukrainian corruption to force Zelensky into a settlement.
  • On Venezuela: Consensus that regime change is possible, but direct US intervention unlikely.

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7. Redistricting, California, and New Campaign Launches

(40:21–45:39)

• Redistricting: Dan and Sean agree Republicans will net +8 to +10 House seats due to court decisions and Voting Rights Act rulings.
• California Governor’s Race: Tom Steyer’s campaign ad described as “the most poll-tested video ever made.”
  • Dan: “Our party’s history with the really rich isn’t great. I can’t see them saying a hedge fund manager is our solution.”
  • Sean: “If you have a billion dollars, you’re automatically serious, but he doesn’t sell.”
  • Mark: “Only person with a worse chance than a rich hedge fund manager would be a poor one.”

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8. Audience Q&A: Media, Newsom, Epstein, and First Ladies as President

(48:39 onwards)

a. Amanda (Central Valley, CA)—Media and Gavin Newsom

• Amanda: “I almost feel like the media’s coverage of Gavin Newsom is a dereliction of duty... Everything is worse here. Prices, gas prices, homelessness.”
  • Sean: “Politicians don’t get judged like a normal employee... Newsom plays the media game very well, and when you do, the press treats you better.”
  • Dan: “He’ll have to answer for his record if he runs for president. Winning candidates find a way to accentuate positives and minimize the negatives.”
  • Amanda: “I’d love for the governor of Florida to come here and fix our mess.”

b. Paul (Bradenton, FL)

• Shouts out the dynamic among the panel: “The synergy among the three of you is really enjoyable.” (55:35)

c. Brandon (Rhode Island)—Historical Analogies to Epstein, Pardons, and Which First Lady Would Make the Best President

• Notes “Finders Club” and other historical scandals.
• Suggests for MAGA to accept a Ghislaine Maxwell pardon, it would need to be paired with pardons for Snowden, Assange, and Kiriakou.
• Asks: “Which First Lady would have made the best president?”
  • Sean: “Nancy Reagan, maybe.”
  • Dan: “Eleanor Roosevelt, and of course Hillary.”
  • Mark: “Edith Wilson, Laura Bush, and Hillary Clinton.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Dan (on moderates and primaries): “You’ll have a candidate like that when the electorate rewards them. Watch for the craving of opposites.” (05:31)
• Sean (on the mechanics of elections): “A lot of these guys might be more attractive general election candidates, but getting through the primary is what really matters.” (07:52)
• Amanda (on Newsom): “I almost feel like the media’s coverage of Gavin Newsom is a dereliction of duty... We’ve had to deal with this man for almost eight years, and everything is worse.” (49:35)
• Dan (on Epstein and party scandal): “No, they don’t [have a big problem]. It’s a societal problem... Most members of Congress have a couple hundred thousand donors.” (29:58)
• Sean (on Epstein): “There’s a difference between all that [photos, fundraising] and real relationships... If you’re texting with him, you can’t walk away from that.” (33:11)
• Sean (on being a centrist): “Sometimes what I want and what the pragmatic side of me says is possible—I’ve just trained my brain to focus on how the process works.” (08:28)
• Dan (on Newsom in a Democratic primary): “He’ll have to answer for [his record]... Winning candidates find a way to accentuate the positive and minimize or explain away the rest.” (52:37)
• Sean (on lemons!): “79 cents for a lemon... Move to Manhattan. If I could find a lemon for 79 cents, I’d buy 100 of them.” (19:05)
• Mark (on Democrats and Summers’ downfall): “Larry Summers is a very senior figure in the Democratic party... He’s just had his life [destroyed]...” (31:00)

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Timestamp Guide to Major Segments

• Centrist candidate frustrations — 03:13–10:34
• National daybook, breaking political news — 10:35–16:11
• Economy & inflation politics — 16:11–21:08
• Polls: Trump approval & the generic ballot — 24:24–27:03
• Epstein files, Democrats' headaches — 27:43–37:28
• Ukraine & Venezuela geopolitics — 37:28–40:21
• Redistricting and California governor’s race — 40:21–45:39
• AOC, Kamala Harris, and Democratic inside baseball — 41:00–45:39
• Audience Q&A: Newsom, Epstein, First Ladies as POTUS, more — 48:39–end

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Conclusion/Tone

This episode is quintessential 2WAY: lively, skeptical, and deeply plugged-in. The hosts cut through talking points, poking holes in party narratives while highlighting the deeper mechanics of politics, media, and power. The conversation, peppered with pop culture and real-world analogies, pulls no punches—especially when dissecting the impact of the Epstein scandal, the difficulty faced by political centrists, or the reasons politicians like Gavin Newsom survive and thrive in the spotlight.

For listeners looking to understand not just what happened, but how today’s headlines will ripple through politics, business, and culture, this episode’s a can’t-miss.

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Transcript

[Sean]

Home to the Rachel Maddow Show.

[Mark]

Morning Joe, the briefing with Jen Psaki.

[Sean]

And more Voices you know and trust. Ms. Now is your source for news.

[Mark]

Opinion and the world. Our name is new, but you'll find the same commitment to justice, progress and the truth that you've relied on for decades. We'll continue to cover the day's news, ask the tough questions and explain how it impacts you. Ms. Now. Same mission, new name. Learn more at Ms. Now. Hello friends.

[Dan]

Guess who?

[Sean]

That's right, it is I, the replacer.

[Mark]

Once again I've been called on so.

[Sean]

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[Mark]

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[Sean]

Call of Duty Black Ops 7 available now. Rated M of mature.

[Mark]

Welcome. Welcome everybody. This is the morning meeting. Thank you for joining and we begin as we always do, with a question from the community. Eric, welcome in love, love your fairway and green shirt. Thank you for joining. Tell folks who don't know where you are and what's on your mind for Sean and Dan.

[Eric]

So yeah, I'm down here. My name is Eric Wagman, down here in Safety Harbor, Florida, the greater Tampa Bay area. And just excited to be here. I got introduced by the to the show from our mutual friend Nicole Rios in the great state of Tennessee as.

[Mark]

A personal friend of ours.

[Eric]

And anyway, also, she's awesome.

[Mark]

She's awesome.

[Eric]

Yeah, she is a dear friend and as if we weren't good enough friends, she introduced us to this show so she brought even, you know, more to us. And uh, also proud to wear my brand new, uh, morning meeting shirt that I just received yesterday.

[Dan]

Uh, nice.

[Mark]

How's it fit?

[Eric]

Oh, softest shirt I think I've ever worn. Yeah, it's great. So I appreciate the recommendation and the second that Sean got on there and threw off the 25% off discount, I was all in. That just sealed it.

[Mark]

Thank you, Sean. Eric, Eric, before you ask your question, we're glad you got 25% off, but it might be time to go order another one now that you see how great it is because believe it or not, today, 30% off. All Fairway and Green products. 30% off. Go to Fairway. Go to twoway.com TV Fairway. Use the promo code BF30 Black Friday 30 BF30. 30% off site wide. All fairway ingredients. So again, dad, you see how great it is. Can you imagine getting another one 30% off?

[Sean]

If we knew more about our sleep, what would we do differently? Would we go to bed at a consistent time or take steps to reduce.

[Mark]

Interruptions to our sleep. With the all new sleep score, Apple.

[Sean]

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[Mark]

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[Sean]

How to take the quality of your.

[Mark]

Sleep from good to excellent.

[Sean]

Introducing the new sleep score on Apple Watch iPhone 11 or later required.

[Eric]

It's a little too much for me to handle on a Wednesday, quite frankly.

[Mark]

Mark, I hear you. Anyway, thank you for buying the shirt. Thank you for joining and tell us.

[Eric]

What'S on your mind.

[Mark]

Sure.

[Eric]

So there's consistent conversations about 28, of course and I think yesterday, last night or yesterday you guys discussed Gavin Newsom's situation where he was in the polling. I represent a true centrist. I'm a non party affiliated voter, former moderate Republican. So looking for someone in that lane, it's very difficult. I think Rahm's potential presidential run is interesting. I'm somewhere in the middle looking for my guy or my woman. And I'm just trying to see, I know you guys have had this discussion before. What would it legitimately take for someone in that lane to make it in today's political climate? I just think it's and I would love to have someone in the Mikey Cheryl Rom on the left going against someone who's, dare say, a little more moderate on the right. But just for I, I think it's fair to say that, you know, Mr. Vance or Mr. Rubio will be the presumptive nominee there. So that's kind of. That ship has sailed. But what, what would it really take?

[Mark]

Are neither of those. Are neither, yeah. Are neither Vance nor Rubio moderate enough for you?

[Eric]

I'm, I'm very open to listening for both and I will, I mean I'm, when I say I'm on the fence, I truly am. Like I'm about as in the middle as you can get. So I'll listen right now it's not where I'd prefer to go, but I haven't written either off.

[Dan]

Do you associate both with Trump?

[Eric]

I absolutely associate, associate J.D. vance with Trump. I think he's in that position because of Trump and I don't think he would have been there without him. I think Marco Rubio was an incredibly interesting politician, especially here from my home state of Florida. I really was disappointed that he jumped into the mud with Trump when Trump just started beating the tar out of him in 16. I, I wish he would have stayed a more moderate dare I say reasonable or adult way of going about things. But again, you know, he also, he, you know, he plays in the real world. And sometimes you got to do what you got to do to make it work. So I'm open to both. But to answer your question, I do associate Vance with Trump. Not in a great way. Rubio I'm open to, but I, I think Vance, the nomination is his T.O. had to have.

[Mark]

Eric, thank you for the great question. You speak for tens of millions, Dan.

[Dan]

And then, Sean, I think you will get a, you will have a candidate like that to choose from when the electorate rewards candidates for that. And I go back to, don't underestimate that the electorate may be craving the opposite in personality and style than the incumbent. That's not a Trump thing. It's just an American history thing that after eight or 12 years, you want the opposite. And if the country says, I want calm, I want kind of, I'll say competent. I want someone with a track record in government, of experience of working with the other side. You could get a Josh Shapiro Rahm, who's talking about kind of ways to work together. And I think, you know, J.D. vance would pivot and attempt to do the same thing. I go back to, I don't think Trump would allow him to do it. It's like when George H.W. bush said a kinder, gentler version of Reagan, and Reagan said, who's he talking about?

[Eric]

And can I, can I follow up to that? Yeah, I, I, I appreciate that, those remarks, My, my one thing that I, that I do appreciate about President Trump now, while I want someone a little bit more moderate, as I already said, I do appreciate that he's a fighter. And I think that's something that a lot of these names that you've mentioned, when you talk about Josh Shapiro or even talk about Andy Bashir, some people that maybe are in that more, quote, moderate area. I do want someone who's, who's got a little bit of, of fight and a little, you know, I don't know the right words for it.

[Dan]

So let me ask you, if someone said, I get blank done or fight, which one? Because Shapiro and Brashear and Whitmer just say, I don't care. I get it done. As opposed to Newsom, who's saying, I'm going to punch the bully in the face and I'm going to fight, fight, fight.

[Eric]

I, I think if they say they get things done and they have a track record of doing it as executives in their state, I'm all ears.

[Mark]

Okay.

[Eric]

That's, that's, you know, and I, I don't want someone saying, I want to fight, I want to punch you in the mouth. I, I'm one of those people who's tired of that. It's nonsense.

[Mark]

Sean.

[Sean]

I appreciate your question and I think on the Republican side, you're right. This is JD's to lose. I think part of the problem for me is I look at.

[Dan]

All of.

[Sean]

This in the context of the game, how it's played, what the rules are. And so a lot of times I'll use a sports analogy because when I described my role at the rnc, I'd always say our job was like the league, the NFL or the mlb, which is to have good teams, to have a good season, but to ultimately win. And so when you talk about what you want, and I get that there are days in which I want know, but it's like saying what two teams should go in the super bowl, like, that's not how the league works. You actually have to play the game, you have to win the games, you have to win the playoff games. And I say that because, you know, Dan talks about this all the time and it's right, like getting through a primary is, is the game, that's the season. And so for a lot of these guys, they might be a much more attractive general election candidate on either side for that matter, but getting through the primary is what really matters. And so, you know, the discussion that we have all the time about what makes on a Tier 1 or a Tier 2 or Tier 5 candidate is can they raise the money, can they put a team around them, can they go out and do those things? And that's not easy. Again, so it's like what, what I want sometimes and versus what the pragmatic side of me says, what's, what's possible is what I actually have just started to train my brain on to say, like, let's not have these hypothetical discussions. Like, I think Ro Khanna on the Dem side is a very, very sharp guy. He's engaging. But, but I do question whether or not somebody in the House, not him, but a House member, has the political infrastructure, the wherewithal to run a presidential campaign. The history just doesn't isn't on their side. So I just, I say that because I think it's a great question, but I think it's like, you know, it's like the electoral College or whatever where you, it's like, here's the reality of how the process works. I don't really like what you know, a cocktail conversation in Georgetown about wouldn't it be neat if five faithless electors did this and we had a constitutional convention? It just doesn't happen. And same thing, like leading up to the 2016 convention, people are like, what if the delegates are. And it's like, that's just not how it works. So I, like I said, I appreciate your question. I think it's a really good one. It's an interesting one. But I think part of this is understanding how the process works and who can get through.

[Eric]

I guess, yeah, I'm like a, a 45 year old who's trying to, to stay optimistic and, and understandably, just to your point, Sean, like, there's just rules of the game and there's the way it is. There's the way that I kind of part of me still hopes it could be and I'm gonna, I'm gonna hold on to that for as long as I can, but there's rules to the game and agreed. Rokhan is a great example. I mean, there's those people that it, it just is what it is.

[Dan]

Long way to go, Eric.

[Mark]

Great. Grateful to you for being part of two way, for buying the shirt, for teeing us off with a great question. And tell all your friends. Tell all your friends. All right. Lots to get through today, including. We'll talk more about 2028 in a moment. Two pieces of breaking news occurred this morning. The mayor elect of New York City has said he's going to keep the police commissioner on Ms. Tisch, which is great news for most people. I think most people will see that. A very positive development. She's been the police commissioner. She's been a very solid leader. Jessica Tisch. Here's the New York Post headline. They broke the story a little while ago. NYPD Commissioner Jessica Tisch accepts marilect moment Mamdani's offer to stay as top cop the time the Post broke the story, but they were given the story. They were given press statements from both the mayor elect and Tish. Very interesting move because the Post has been extremely hostile. So they made a very deliberate, tactical decision there. We'll talk about that perhaps as we go forward. The other thing is Tom Steyer, billionaire, is running for governor of California. And in a little bit he announced this morning. We'll look at his announcement video, some logistical things to tell you about and then we'll run through the daybook and then we'll talk about things and we'll get to your questions. If you're here on the platform, you Want to get in a con in the conversation? Please raise your hand if you're watching on X or YouTube. No smack in the chat, Peace, love and understanding, blah, blah, blah. Okay. If you're interested in our schedule, because I get scheduled questions all the time. You can look at two Way tv, you can look at my Twitter account, you look at my substack schedule for all our programs are available there next week. Two Way Tonight and the morning meeting are all for Thanksgiving. So no programs next week. Don't, don't email me Monday. Ask where the show is. Listen to me now. No programs next week. We'll be back December 1st with both programs. In addition, tonight, special show promo three please two way tonight, six o' clock tonight, regular show and then an extra hour with Ari David. He's the founder and editor in chief of Upward News and he's an incredibly important and talented young journalist. Ari will be hosting a program 7 to 8. So join us tonight and amongst Ari's guests in a conversation about antisemitism and the fight within the conservative movement about Israel and Jews. Amongst his guests will be Laura Loomer. So join tonight, 7 o' clock Eastern Time, right after the regular 2A tonight for an extended edition. All right. In the Daybook, the president's got one public event today. He's going over to the Kennedy center that he chairs where the Saudi Investment Forum is. Many of the business bigwigs who were at the dinner last night are speaking at and participating in this, including Elon Musk and others.

[Dan]

Vice President the Four Seasons must have been a scene this morning.

[Mark]

Must have been incredible. I don't know, don't know if the vice president's going to be there, but I wouldn't be surprised. The second lady and the first lady are going to Raleigh, North Carolina, today to meet with service members and their families, kicking off what will be a number of events that both families do in conjunction with the holiday season. At 11 o' clock this morning, Pam Bondi and Cash Patel are having a press conference to announce, quote, significant enforcement actions against an international criminal organization. We'll see what that's about. And of course, if they do take questions, they'll probably get questions about the disclosure of the Epstein files because there's a lot of unanswered questions now that the assuming the president signs it into law today and the clock starts ticking. Great story in the Washington Post today explaining why we may not see a lot of documents or any documents anytime soon despite the legislation's passage. Hakeem Jeffries press conference at 11:45 this morning. And there's a number of other things going on on the Hill. The secretary of the Army, Dan Driscoll, is in Kiev meeting with Zelensky and other military commanders, other Pentagon officials to talk about a potential please peace plan. This comes as Axios broke the story that there's a long, well detailed plan between Russia and the United States that they're going to try to sell Zelensky on and maybe sell Europe on.

[Dan]

No, no, no, no. They told Politico we don't care about the European.

[Mark]

Yeah, they did say that. But, but, but they will at least talk to Europeans about it despite that blind quote that you correctly cite. Here's the Axios headline. For those of you watching the video, I'll read it to you. For those on the podcast, US Secretly drafting new war plan to end Ukraine War. We'll talk about this in just a moment. Legal front today. Comey's in Court at 10 o'clock this morning. His defense team has about a half dozen ways they're trying to get the case dismissed. Judge Boberg, who's become a hot button issue for many on the right, is hearing the latest on the lawsuit challenging the administration's deportation of 100 Venezuelan men to El Salvador. And a three judge panel in North Carolina is talking about the redistricting plan that there. All right, economy, big, big stuff on the economy. Nvidia is reporting their earnings tonight. Tomorrow we get the first employment data since the shutdown and people are looking to that. There have been earnings reports that are kind of mixed. Here's the Wall Street Journal headline, Nvidia results in delayed job data. Set up critical tests for Wall street releases will provide key signals for investors after significant market pullback. Dows dropped four days in a row. There's a lot of uncertainty about the Chinese economy and there's increasing discussion of whether there's a bubble regarding AI. And there's other, there's other, there's other things people are worried about out there in the economy. So here's Scott Besant, economic whisperer, saying no, everything's just fine in an interview with Brett Baer last night. Energy certainty, Is there an affordability crisis?

[Dan]

Jack?

[Mark]

Democrats, that's obviously the word they're using. The president's talking about it more as well. Is there a crisis when it comes to that? Well, they should, they should know about it because they caused it. It was the worst inflation in 40 or 50 years by this massive government spending. Spend, spend, spend. And if we go back, what did they do that, the president differently than the president did in his first term. So they had a demand shock induced by this massive wave of government overspending. But to make it worse, they had this huge regulatory build up. So demand shock and supply constraint, that's a recipe for this inflation. President Trump now and during his first term, you get a demand shock from the president private sector, but you deregulate and then you can go back to the non inflationary growth. But look, we are working on this every day and my prediction is the first quarter, second quarter, what we are going to see is we have brought the inflation down, it is curving down and real income, the other side of that equation is real income growth. And we are going to to see this from all this investment. So Sean, they've moved the goalpost a couple times in terms of what quarter we're actually going to see an economic turnaround. And they're right up against the deadline for the midterms for voters to pass a judgment of the first part of the term and whether they're good stewards of a good economy. If you were in the White House, what would be your greatest concerns now? Which sectors, which dynamics would worry you the most about whether there's actually going to be in the Trump economy, inherited from the Biden economy, actual growth?

[Sean]

Well, first of all, I mean, I think they've still got time. You've got probably until the second quarter of next year when people are starting to correlate their vote with their feelings. So they've got, I mean, I would say the consumer goods are probably at the top of that list. Things that you touch and see every day. Right. So they're okay on gas and stuff. I mean, look, we all can admit there's a lot of stuff out of the control of the executive. But at the end of the day that's how they get judged. And so you take credit where you shouldn't and you get blamed for things you shouldn't. But I mean I think consumer goods, groceries, anything that you're touching and seeing on a daily basis, like, so I think beef they were, they're right to be concerned about that. But the more stuff that you interact with and see, you know, a gallon of milk, all those things, that's what people, you know, for me a couple of weeks or a couple of months ago is lemons. Like, I was like, I cannot believe this is what a single lemon costs. So I, I think that's where I would be most concerned. Obviously housing is a, is an issue as well, but you know, again it's, it's like you only deal with housing when you're buying a house or sell, I mean so like the things that you're coming into contact more and more is where I'd put the biggest focus.

[Mark]

How much were the lemons?

[Sean]

70 something cents a piece. And I was like 79 cents for a lemon.

[Mark]

And I'm like that's move, move to move to Manhattan. Dude, if I could find 11 for 79 cents I would, I'd buy, I'd buy a hundred of them. Dan, where are the weak links in the American economy right now?

[Dan]

They're everywhere. And the problem, I mean, I wonder if Bezin, like I almost feel bad for him because he's, he's got to, he's got to do the talking point. He's got to be, you know, the Trump spokesperson. But inflation was lower when they came into office. It was coming down is about 2, 2.4, 2.5. Why is it reaccelerating? It's the tariffs. I mean it's unbelievable that he's like, it's nothing that Donald Trump did. None of our policies. I mean, Sean's right. What did Home Depot say yesterday? Part of the issue is housing costs, whether it's lumber, cement, labor, which is an immigration issue. So to me the problem Trump has is he's going to keep trying. I think what you're going to see over the next four months is every Friday night, every holiday, they're going to start undoing tariffs, just like in his first term when he had exemptions up the yin yang for specific companies, specific industries that they're going to try to get subsidies or the Supreme Court will.

[Mark]

Do it for him.

[Dan]

Right, but the problem is he created this and you are going to hear Democrats. Gretchen Whitmer had an op ed we didn't talk about this. I think it was Monday in the Washington Post. His tariffs are reckless, smart tariffs are good, targeted tariffs, but he is reckless because he wanted it to be easily digestible. So he smacked it on everything. He's got a problem.

[Sean]

I will say that one of the reasons, I mean when they're pulling them off, what was helpful about the way they did the Latin American ones is that they were able to use it as a, to tie a deal together. So part of this is they can't just pull them off without getting something for them in return.

[Dan]

Well, I think Friday night at 6pm says it all.

[Mark]

You know, you know, one place where the economy is booming is at two way and our sponsorships the morning meeting, for instance, sponsored by the good folks at Cozy Earth. Cozy Earth 40% off sale continues their crazy Black Friday Comes early sale on the bamboo pajama set, the bubble cuddle blanket, the joggers that Sean wears around Northern Virginia like their badge of honor, a uniform, a magic flute, whatever they are.

[Dan]

Anyways, if you get a while, it's.

[Sean]

Got to be just the regular pajama pants. Although I don't go outside with those.

[Mark]

I do. I go get the newspaper with them. Just kidding. I don't get a newspaper anymore. 40% off. Go to cozy earth.com use the promo code 2W. 40% off the whole site. If you don't buy yourself a bubble cuddle blanket or for someone you love, you're making a massive mistake. Just let's be honest. It's available to you now. 40% off. Wrap the ones you love in luxury with Cozy Earth Again, cozyearth.com promo code 2 WMM for an extraordinary 40% off right now. Cozyearth.com with Venmo Stash a tag on one hand and ordering a ride in.

[Sean]

The other means you're stacking cash back. With Venmo Stash, get up to 5%.

[Mark]

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[Sean]

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[Mark]

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[Sean]

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[Mark]

Match $100 cash back per month. See terms of Venmo Mesh terms. All right, some new polls out that are not great news for Team Red. First, here's a, a Reuters poll. Number 105, please. Reuters polls regularly on the president's approval rating. And you see from the headline here, Trump approval falls to lowest of his term over prices. We just discussed that in Epstein Files. We'll discuss that in a moment. And here's the data. And again, it's one poll, but it's not inconsistent with the trend of other polls we've seen on the president's national approval rating. You see here, down to 38% approval. It's the lowest it's been, it's been in the low 40s or 40. Again, the President. This is the story of Trump. A low, low, high, stable and pretty high floor. Stable and pretty high ceiling. Pretty low ceiling. Rather, in other words, he ranges between for his entire time in national life, about 38 is about as low as he's been and about as high as he's been, you know, 50s, you know, high 40s. So, Dan, what does this 38 number mean?

[Dan]

It means that Republicans are in trouble because one we keep saying this, Trump's not going to be on the ballot and they have yet to show that they can turn out voters when he is not on the ballot. So that right there fundamentally is a problem. Two, even if he were per se, he won by a little, he lost by a little, and he won again by a little. And when you see those numbers, it usually is independents are leaving him. He remains at 90. He trades between 96 and 92% with Republicans. He trades at 6 to 4% with Democrats. It is those independents that move that from 44 to 38. And that is consistent with everything we've seen. We're going to get to the generic ballot. But the problem he has is he is beginning to be, events are controlling him and people do not like a lot of what he is doing right now across the board.

[Mark]

Sean, before you answer, let me just show another number. This is the generic ballot question. This is, this is what they ask, you know, are you going to vote for the Democrat or the Republican? This is from Marist. This is the widest I've seen it this cycle. And really, I don't remember seeing it this wide in any poll. 14 point gap, 55% of people say if, if elections were held today they'd vote for the Democratic candidate versus 41% for the Republican. Sean, you're a student of the generic. Do you remember a 14 point gap ever?

[Sean]

No, go ahead.

[Mark]

It's just one poll. It's one poll. But again, it's consistent with the, with the direction. We've seen recent polls where it was 5, 6, 7 points. But Sean, put those two polls in context for your party.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Sean]

So the first one, that one I like and I say this without seeing any a, what their, what their breakdown was or what their last one was. So I, you know, it's sort of a snapshot and I, that's not good. I mean, bottom line is if you're beyond 10 going into a midterm, you're in trouble. That's not so. So that's, that should, if you're Richard Hudson, the chairman of the National Republican Congressional Committee, you're probably. But again, context matters, Number one. Number two, you're only talking about 20ish districts that you have to worry about. So when you look at a generic poll like this, it's taking consideration the entire country. So obviously it's not good. But you also want to get down a little bit further. Hold on, I'm reading according to the final. And then if you pop back up the Trump one, let Me just can we pull that one back up real quick?

[Mark]

Because I think context, put the 106 back up, please.

[Sean]

So if you look again, look at the approval, right. So it's at 38. The high water mark has been 42 and it's been between 38 and 42. Margin of error. That's you never want to be going down, just to be clear. So I'm not trying to excuse it. And on the same thing, on the disapprove, you know, the high or the low, I guess inverting 54 to 60.

[Dan]

Yep.

[Sean]

Yeah. So again, this is not horrible. Coming off a government shutdown in Epstein. And so what I would tell if I were, you know, saying to the president, look, we had a last week was not great, a confluence of not great things that were heading our way. You've got all the Epstein stuff which was, you know, not helpful for the president's team and then the government coming off the heels of a government shutdown. But I also think that that doesn't, that you're not cratering. And that's the. So the key is, and you saw the president all this week talking about affordability, getting back on track, direct foreign, direct investment. So the key and obviously how we address health care matters. But this is one of those ones where you go in to see the doctor and he says, look, we got to make some changes in diet and exercise, get you back on track. We're not at a point yet, but I want to see you back here in 30 days.

[Dan]

So one thing though, that is big about this today is if you're at the DCCC or the dscc, recruiting candidates becomes easier now because people start thinking perhaps a wave is building, perhaps there's wind at our back. This is a good time to run. If you're trying to raise money and you're trying to get the business community on board with what you're doing, if you're the Trump White House, companies are going to start to hedge a little. Hey, if Dems get the House, how are we playing this? Do we want to be completely in bed with those guys where the Trump people are going to say, don't you dare do that, don't you dare think about now. It becomes harder to do your job from a mechanical standpoint.

[Mark]

We got a bunch of topics. We're going to move on Epstein. Dan, name a Republican besides Donald Trump who's been linked to Epstein, that's a current member, not a business, not a business person. Someone who's been involved in Republican administrations or elective office. Name anybody?

[Dan]

Oh, I don't know off the top of my head.

[Mark]

Yeah, I mean, the President's been saying this for a while. Is a Democratic scandal. It all involves Democrats. He ordered his Attorney General to do an investigation of Democrats. Then yesterday got publicity that Hakeem Jeffries had a. At a fundraising firm that reached out to Epstein. He was asked about it last night on CNN. This is number 110. Please ask you about you. Because the White House has been highlighting an email that I'm sure you've seen today that Jeffrey Epstein got in 2013.

[Amanda]

They say it shows you were soliciting.

[Mark]

Money and dinner from an Epstein. The email was not sent from you. It was sent from a political consulting firm called Dynamic SRG that says, we are thrilled to announce we are working with Congressman Hakeem Jeffries. Shoot us an email or give us a call if you would like to get involved. What's your response? Do you recall that email being sent to Jeffrey Epstein from, from that team?

[Dan]

Yeah, of course.

[Mark]

I have no recollection of the email. I've never had a conversation with him, never met him, know nothing about him other than the extreme things that he's been convicted of doing. And that's why, you know, I'm just strongly supportive of the effort backing the survivors to make sure that everything can come out okay. Whatever is in those jump out of this department. Larry Summers, now, as best I can tell, has lost every professional affiliation he has, with the exception of Harvard, hasn't fired him as a professor yet. This morning, the latest, he stepped down from the Open AI Board. I don't know that he was forced to resign, but I bet he was. And, and that's a business. But even the center for American Progress, staple of the, of the left wing and of the Democratic Party, they forced Larry Summers out as well. So, Dan, is the President, right? That not only is. Is this in the abstract a Democratic problem, but it's a Democratic problem. All the people who are having trouble now, like Larry Summers, Hakeem Jeffries, we saw the, the gentle lady from the Virgin Islands. Democrats have a big problem for something that they forced.

[Dan]

No, they don't. I mean, that's. No, that's ridiculous. It's not. It's. It. It is a societal problem. There are rich Democrats, there are rich Republicans. Like, look, as a fundraiser, okay, I have said, I emailed and spoke once with Jeffrey Epstein because I had a client who said reach out to him to ask if he would attend a fundraiser. Most members of Congress have a Couple hundred thousand donors. You do not know who your staff is reaching out to all day, every day, sending blast emails, sending individual emails. Donald Trump, I bet, does not know all 4 million donors. Just. I'm going to take a guess.

[Mark]

True. But, but if you take the idea.

[Dan]

That this is a Democratic problem, the question goes to. First off, this is because Republicans kept saying the Democrats were hiding pedophiles. Right? That's the last four years. It's all we heard from the right, many people in government now. And now the question is, what did Donald Trump know and when did he know it? The average American doesn't care about Larry Summers.

[Mark]

Well, just to be clear, I'm talking about the difference between what is, what is and what ought to be. I'm saying what is, is Larry Summers is a very senior figure in the Democratic Party. He's just had his life.

[Dan]

No, he hasn't been marked for 25 years.

[Mark]

Really. He was an advisor. He was an advisor to Joe Biden. He was in the White House regularly giving Joe Biden instructions about the economy. He was, he was.

[Dan]

Okay. But Mark Leon Black was close to a lot of Republicans. So what, what, what do you, I mean, Mark, you're rolling your eyes if you're going to attempt to say this is a Democratic scandal.

[Mark]

Don't know what. No, I'm not. What I'm saying. What I'm saying is, what I'm saying is that, that, that, that, that based on the first disclosure and based on the fact that there's now a Justice Department investigation ordered by the president of Democrats, it's more likely that Democrats are, it seems to me, are going to be caught up in this, particularly because with the exception of Donald Trump, who cut ties with Jeffrey Epstein over a decade ago.

[Dan]

Hold on.

[Mark]

He says that, I mean, well, there's no evidence. True, but there's no evidence that he didn't. But let's shine in a second. But I'm just saying, Dan, all I'm saying is right now I see Larry Summers, a leading figure in the Democratic Party for decades, and currently he was, he was with the center for American Progress. He was an advisor to Joe Biden. He, he's, he's, he's been taken down by this. I don't see any Republican taken down. And I continue to say there are Democrats whose names have come up, not Hakeem Jeffries. I agree with your analysis. There's. But it's been reporting this morning that the Republican opposition research teams are now going to highlight everything related to any Democrat. Well, and they've got, and they've got people. And they've got people. They've got people they can highlight. Sean. Great.

[Sean]

So look, I said this from the jump, that Democrats better be careful what they wish for. And I think this is going to, it's all going to come home to roost right now. Because, look, the bottom line is that this is who this guy piled around with more. So the odds are just simply that.

[Dan]

I'd be careful with that. Okay.

[Sean]

I mean, but, but to, to your.

[Dan]

Point, therefore, with that, you're.

[Sean]

Maybe I should. But I'm telling you that I don't, I don't. I think that there might be business people, CEO types, etc. But look, one, I'll just preface this to Dan's point earlier, like getting, I, I, I signed fundraising letters all the time. I take pictures with people. I mean, Saturday night I was at a book signing and I think I took 20 pictures. I don't know who the heck. Well, I'm sorry if you're one of.

[Dan]

Those people, but I, he loves you all the same.

[Sean]

There's a difference between all of that, which is kind of part of politics. Like Hakeem Jeffries, I get it. He doesn't know. But, but Stacy Plaskett and all these people who are like, you're texting with them, you're involved with them, you can't walk away from that. And that's where this issue is going to be a problem for all these people who had a relationship with him where you. It's one thing to say, I was at an event, I didn't know who he was over there. But when, like, Katie Couric walked into an event and they said to her, you didn't see all the young girls taking your coat, serving you drinks. And I mean, there's a point at which it doesn't pass the smell test.

[Mark]

Dan. What, what, what would. Well, let me ask it this way. You've got a member of the Democratic caucus who was getting real time advice from Jeffrey Epstein after he'd been convicted. Okay? Larry Summers is lost everything. And I don't hear any Democrats saying this is not fair to Larry Summers. Not one. To the contrary. They're all cheering this on. And yet they, they circled the wagons of. Around a member of the caucus. Why? What's the difference between those two cases?

[Dan]

Well, they, they, the Stacey Plaskett stuff, they shouldn't. Just like they shouldn't have circled around the guy from Chicago over what he attempted to do to engineer his replacement. I mean, I, I, I, I get it. The Plasket stuff was born.

[Mark]

Why did, why are they circling the wagons around her?

[Dan]

Because they always protect their own.

[Mark]

Right?

[Sean]

That's, Yes.

[Dan]

I mean, that's just the reality of it. It's just like, why did they not censure her? Because Democrats threatened to turn around and censure a Republican. And Republican said, all right, it's a mutually assured destruction. We'll all stop. So what the public hates.

[Sean]

But I think the problem, though, Mark, to your other problem is you can't. And again, this is, as I said, this is what happens when you do this. If these guys built this all up, we've got to, you know, suddenly the summer stuff starts coming out. Both sides are going to have an issue with this to some degree. But if you have an association with them, you can't have gone through this whole issue and then say, oh, it's no big deal.

[Mark]

Your explanation is correct. Members protect members. But at the very day when they're saying, we're the party that says people over the powerful don't protect insiders, that let people who dealt with Jeffrey Epstein let's lose their place in society, the very day they're saying, this is our big triumphal win, they're protecting a powerful person who, who had a close contact with Jeffrey Epstein and gave a ridiculous explanation of it.

[Dan]

Well, but hold on. No one's accusing her. She was getting advice in a hearing about asking a witness question. She wasn't saying, hey, when's the party? Tonight? There's one person so far, there's two. There's Bill Clinton. Donald Trump's the only one who's been photographed at parties with Jeffrey Epstein. More people may come out, but, you guys, the plot's getting shifted. There's one president of the United States, right? There's one president of the United States who repeatedly made this an issue and now can't control the conspiracy theories. But his involvement is black and white. Meaning we have photos. Right. So that's why the public is asking questions. Yeah, I mean, it just, that's politics.

[Sean]

I mean, well, before there were accusations about what he was doing.

[Dan]

Oh, maybe.

[Mark]

Maybe. We'll see. Okay, one more question about Epstein, and then we're just gonna have to wrap it around everything else to get the questions from the community. So raise your hand if you want in the conversation. Again, I recommend the Washington Post story on disclosure and what the Justice Department will do. Dan, will we see meaningful, interesting documents by Christmas?

[Dan]

No.

[Mark]

No. Even though, even though the law calls for it, there's no teeth in the law. And will we not see them because they'll say there's an ongoing investigation.

[Dan]

Well, let me rephrase that. We'll see some, I think you'll see some stuff about Democrats. This is politics. I know. No doubt.

[Mark]

Yeah. Even though, ironically. Even though, ironically, the investigations about the Democrats. And so in theory, the Democratic stuff should be more likely to be held back. Sean, will we see meaningful disclosure by Christmas?

[Sean]

I'm going to say yes, just because I think the volume of what's going to come out. But, but I also think, as I said before when I asked Dershowitz this question, he's very clear that, like, the real juicy stuff isn't going to be in those files.

[Mark]

Yeah, I never read the chat, but I glance at it. Don't tell me to define meaningful. We all know it when we see it. All right, wrap it around, guys. Got to go quick here. There's this notion that there's a Ukraine plan. Politico breathlessly this morning said this is going to happen. It's amazing. The administration is very bullish. Sean, will there be a Ukraine peace deal by Christmas?

[Sean]

Oh, God. I, I, I think I'm going to have to punch. I, I, I, Dan.

[Mark]

All right, Dan. Sean says, don't know. Dan.

[Dan]

No. And that story is embarrassing.

[Mark]

The, the answer, despite that story being embarrassing, the answer is yes, that Venezuela new report that the President has.

[Sean]

Wait, wait, can we just go back? I just want, I want 30 seconds on this because here's the thing. I think Zelensky may sign off on this thing. The question is, does Russia hold to it? And that's where I like the contours of something. It's sort of like what we saw in Gaza. Like, the contours are easier, the details are harder.

[Mark]

I agree with you 100%. Let me ask you this quick question. If either of you have a view on this. The Ukrainian government's been corrupt from the beginning. But, but, and we've seen, occasionally, episodically, we've seen reports about that. There's been a lot of reports about that of late. Is that being planted by the US to weaken Zelensky's hand, to force a deal on him, or is it just a coincidence?

[Dan]

Nothing's a coincidence in a war.

[Mark]

Sean, you agree with me and Dan, you agree with me and Dan that this is black arts by the Trump administration to weaken Zelensky to make him take a deal? That's what I think.

[Sean]

I mean, I wouldn't phrase it that way, but I do Think the idea is you got to get Russia on board first and then go to them and say this is so that's what.

[Mark]

They say they've done. 112 this is about Venezuela. New York Times breaks the story Trump said to authorize CIA plans for covert action in Venezuela. It doesn't say Trump did it said he said to crazy. The president has signed off on possible operations inside Venezuela but has reopened backdoor back channel communications. They've offered him, you know they've said like I think he's offered to take a couple years off. They've rejected that. Dan, will there be us. The dark arts part Dan, will there be a military operation by the United States against him or will there be a silent coup? Or nothing.

[Dan]

Nothing.

[Mark]

Nothing.

[Sean]

Sean, I'm kind of on that team right now. I think this is a try to force Maduro to do something because I said this yesterday. This is a little one where it's hard to say what the US interest is. I mean I guess the drug piece I get. But, but to, to for MAGA to start going. Wait a second, we're now going into Venezuela for what reason?

[Dan]

Into the jungle.

[Mark]

Once again I'm being bullish on Trump's foreign policy achievements here. I said there'd be a peace deal. Maduro gone by Christmas. That's my prediction based on.

[Sean]

No, no, there's a difference. I, I don't. Regime change is possible but I don't think we're going, we're going to go in.

[Mark]

There's, I understand just some by some measure redistricting. We could talk about this for an hour just again McLaughlin style question. Take into account the whole thing, all the court decisions, the one yesterday pending possible on the Voting Rights Act. Dan, what will the net gain be for the party that gains after all the redistricting shenanigans.

[Dan]

NET Gain Republicans plus 10.

[Mark]

Plus 10.

[Dan]

I think they're going to strike down Texas but strike down the Voting Rights Act.

[Mark]

Yeah.

[Dan]

And that's net them 10.

[Sean]

Sean, I, I was going to say plus eight. I mean for those reasons the Voting Rights act will be struck down. The Texas thing will be ultimately allowed.

[Mark]

Yes, I, I, I agree with all that and I say, I also say plus eight. Okay. Kamala Harris campaigned yesterday in Tennessee. Dan, we all, I think the, the gang of 500 doesn't think she's going to run. They just don't. You do. Okay. If she enters, if she enters the race for president, what's the impact, the short term impact if she says I'm running, what's the short term impact?

[Dan]

Look, it's big because her name ID will position her like she's going to start near the top of the heap. Black women are the most important constituency in the Democratic Party in terms of reliability. And if South Carolina goes first, they are a huge, you know, block there and she's going to be able to garner attention. So you're going to have to try to navigate her. I think most Democrats believe she will disqualify herself.

[Mark]

Right. Sean, what's the impact if she runs? Does she become a first year candidate?

[Sean]

Oh, by default. It's like winning the super bowl the last year. You automatically start. I mean, you know, they always say, you know, will they make another run? So she's automatically a first year candidate.

[Mark]

Okay. AOC has declined to back the Socialist, Democratic Socialist who's running against Hakeem Jeffries. Sean, why do you think that is? Why wouldn't she back the challenge to Jeffries seems like a establishment move because.

[Sean]

This goes back to why didn't people say something was wrong with Plassey? I mean, he's the current leader. I mean like that's, there's a, that's a bridge too far.

[Dan]

Dan, she has quietly become the last few years as fairly sophisticated inside player. And I this, you know, she stuck by Joe Biden until the end when a lot of people left him. She understands the long game now.

[Mark]

Yeah, but spot on. Brilliantly said. All right, here's Tom Stier's announcement video. He's entering the pool to be governor of California. He's a billionaire who's tried politics before and never to great success. Here's his. Here's his announcement video. Ford. But the Californians who make this state run are being run over by the cost of living. We need to get back to basics.

[Sean]

And that means making corporations pay their fair share again.

[Mark]

California's deserved a top 10 education state. They deserve to be able to afford to live in a decent house.

[Sean]

I will launch the largest drive to.

[Mark]

Build homes that you can afford in the history of California.

[Sean]

We have the second highest electricity rates in the country.

[Mark]

If we break up the monopolistic power of utility, we're going to unleash a.

[Sean]

Complete wave of innovation and drop our.

[Mark]

Sky high energy prices could be the most poll tested video ever made. We can get a completely different and much better outcome for the people of California. I'm saying we have a broken government.

[Sean]

It's been bought by corporations.

[Mark]

And my question is, who do you think is going to change that?

[Sean]

Sacramento politicians are afraid to change, change up this system.

[Eric]

I'm not.

[Mark]

They're going to hate this.

[Eric]

Bring it on.

[Mark]

I'm Tom Steyer and I'm running for governor. All right. I would have changed that last shirt. Just, that's just me again. That, that, that if you talk to anyone who's conducted a polar focus group in California over the last year, they would tell you those are the exact things to talk about. Dan, the question is, is Tom Steyer the messenger? He's run before. People have not the dog, has not eaten the dog food. But would you rank him now? Is it because he's a self fund?

[Dan]

So I was just going to say.

[Mark]

He'Ll have all the money so you got, you can't ignore him. But do you take him as a serious top tier candidate?

[Dan]

Not right now. Just because our party's history with the really rich is not great. So I can't see the party saying a rich hedge fund manager is our solution. But anyone who puts forward a couple hundred million in TV ads could create name ID and you know the airwaves.

[Mark]

The only person who have a less good chance than a rich hedge fund manager would be a poor hedge fund manager. They would do even worse. Sean. Sean, do you take sty seriously?

[Sean]

I kind of, I, I think I agree with what both of you are saying. If you have a billion dollars, you automatically are serious. But I, I don't think he ends up being like I, I, I don't see him even, you know, making the top three. It's just not, he, he doesn't, he doesn't sell. It comes off as inauthentic. I mean the whole thing, it just, yeah, I don't, I think he has money so he'll play but I don't.

[Dan]

See how it works better or Rorick. Governor, Senate. President, Senate.

[Mark]

If Mr. Stier's consultants are watching the program, congratulations. He has some good ones on your, on your.

[Sean]

By the way, if I were them, put all of his money on broadcast.

[Mark]

Yeah. Broadcast TV with a 15% cut. All right, a few more things and then your question. So please, if you're here on the two way platform, raise your hand. My regular reminder, no smack in the chat please. Particularly on YouTube. Charlie. Kirk, there's, there's a video interview. You Google it, you'll find it with the head of security who was with Charlie that day. It's incredible. This was not that long ago and so much has happened since. But if you, if you want to see an emotional video and account of the day Charlie was killed, please Watch that. And then I'll just tout this for you. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. I'll just have this for you. Number 114. This is commentary's daily newsletter. Get that up from. Abe Greenwald has a piece. It's called the man who Held Back the Flood. And Abe makes a point that I think is super important. I just recommend you go read it. We don't have time to discuss it, but he points out how central, how elemental, how fundamental Charlie's presence was to keep the Fuentes wing of whatever it is from growing and not just having influence within the party, but. But taking hearts and minds in larger numbers than they have. It's an incredibly important piece if you're interested in not just Charlie Kirk, but in where the movement stands and how important it is. If you believe that the Republican Party and MAGA should not be dominated or infiltrated with people who are anti Semitic or bigoted or pro Hitler. The importance of finding someone who could do what Charlie did with all of his talents. All right, quick message from a sponsor and then to your questions. So stand by and raise your hands. CB Distilleries offering you 25% off right now. All their products go to CBDistillery.com use the promo code 2WMM if you're having trouble sleeping, if you're feeling a little under the weather and dragging and your body needs some help to deal with stress or pain after exercise, even mood and focus, do what 2 million people plus have done. Use the products of CB Distillery for better sleep, less stress, feeling good in your own skin, and again right now, save an extraordinary 25% off your entire purchase. Go to CBDistillery.com use the promo code 2WMM for 25% off your entire order. Available to you as part of the two way community. 2wmm.cbdistillery.com available to you to help with sleep, mood, focus, and if you're feeling a little sore after exercise, works for, as I said, over 2 million people. CB distillery to promo code 2 wmmcbdiskillery.com give it a try today. Welcome to Walgreens.

[Sean]

Looking for a holiday gift?

[Mark]

Sort of. My cousin Freddy showed up to surprise us. Oh, sounds like a real nice surprise. Exactly. So now I have to get him a gift, but I haven't gotten my bonus yet. So if we could make it something really nice but also not break the bank, that'd be perfect. How about a curing for for 50% off bingo savings all season. The holiday road is long. We're with you. All the way. Walgreens offer valid November 26 through December 27.

[Dan]

Exclusions apply.

[Mark]

And here we go. Amanda, welcome in Unmute. Tell folks who don't know where you are. Sorry to shock you. And what's on your mind. For Sean and for Dan.

[Amanda]

Oh, hi. I am a teacher in the Central Valley. I'm actually in my classroom grading papers.

[Mark]

What, what do you, what do you teach?

[Amanda]

Fourth grade.

[Mark]

Yeah, that's 45am Bunch of cuties. What do you. Are you teach everything or you specialize everything? Yeah, everything.

[Amanda]

Everything.

[Mark]

What, what's. What do they do when they first come into in the morning?

[Amanda]

It's either PE or because it's a, we call it a bank day, they start later. So we'll do math right away.

[Mark]

Got it. And what are you doing on math right now?

[Amanda]

We're doing area and perimeter.

[Mark]

Area and perimeter. Awesome. Well, thank you for being part of Two way and taking a little break from grading and joining us. Tell everybody what's on your mind.

[Amanda]

So what's in my mind? I am probably one of the few African American conservatives in California, and I have to say I almost feel like the media's coverage of Gavin Newsom is almost a dereliction of duty. They portray him as some not villain.

[Eric]

But.

[Amanda]

A person going against Trump. But we've had to deal with this man for almost eight years. And even starting with his time in San Francisco, it's been a trail of failure. Our homeless has gotten worse since he's gotten here, since he's been our governor. Prices. Talk about affordability. Affordability has gotten worse. I just can't understand the media's focus on this man when he's made things worse. Everything is worse here. Prices, gas prices, just. I just don't understand the fixation of the medias on this, on this man.

[Mark]

Well, let me ask you a question. Do you think, do you think he could win the Democratic nomination even if he would lose the general, or you think even, even he's so weak, even the eyes of Democrats.

[Amanda]

I don't think he's weak at all. And that's why I say I think it's a dereliction of the media's duty because they haven't really covered his failures. And to a certain extent, there are some, you know, a lot of people, and you heard of his, his person that's worked under him, arrest. Yeah, there's, there's a lot of fraud and some stuff going on. A lot of people have pointed it out, but the media has not caught on. And I'm just Wondering, my question is, will it ever catch on or we're going to be stuck with him? My fear is that we're going to be stuck with him as a president.

[Mark]

Sean?

[Sean]

Well, first of all, I don't think he'll be president because he'll lose to J.D.

[Eric]

Vance.

[Sean]

Whether he'll be the nominee is a second story. And look, the one thing this gets back to how we kicked off the show, Great question, Amanda. I think sometimes, like, we politicians don't get judged like a normal employee. So, you know, you go in for your annual review and they say, what'd you do this year? What you're, you know, here's, here's all the things that you're being judged on, the metrics or whatever, if a politician comes off really well, and, and let's face it, Mandami is the same way. And I, I think they sell well, they present well, they're tactically, he, they engage well, people, the media in particular, who are mostly leftist, love the guy, right? And he engages with them. And, and that's a dirty little secret about the media, is that the more that people play with them, the better they get treated. The people who leak to the media, the people who, you know, they all end up go hanging out together. So that's one of the, and, and Newsom plays the game. I'll give him credit for that. He plays it well and that's what happens. So I, I, I think to your point, like, as long as he plays their game and takes care of them and care and feeding, then, you know, you get treated a little bit better than the people who they don't like, which is people on the right.

[Mark]

Dan?

[Dan]

Yeah. I think you say, are people going to talk about this? Yes, they are. Because I do think one of the things that Newsom will try to present is, and he has to, right, he's a governor, is here's my track record. Like, I've done it, I'm not just talking about it. And I think whether it's J.D. vance or I think you'll even potentially hear some Democrats say, like, well, let's look at the record, let's look at what you've done there. So he's going to have to answer for it. I've heard. If you make a plug for Next up, Mark's interview with Newsom. A ways back, one of his first, he asked Newsom what about this idea that businesses have left the state of homelessness. And, you know, Newsom has answers. You can disagree with them, but he was clearly ready for that attack. So, you know, winning candidates find a way to accentuate what they want to talk about, the positive and minimize or explain away things that they might not want to talk about. And every candidate will have Achilles.

[Mark]

Amanda, is there somebody running for governor, California to replace Newsom, who you like?

[Amanda]

No, not. Not at the moment. I would love for the governor of Florida to come here and fix our mess, to be quite honest.

[Mark]

Yeah, that'd be debate about that.

[Dan]

Amazing.

[Mark]

If you maybe offer. Offer money to move to California and there's. Do you.

[Dan]

Are you excited about J.D. vance?

[Amanda]

I do like J.D. vance. I do worry that he's getting too close to more. I'm not a Trumpist, although this last time I felt compelled to vote for him. I didn't vote for any. Any other time. And I do feel that he might be getting a little too close to him. So I'm hoping it's maybe just a little bit of an act and maybe we can get a Ruby O. Vance ticket. Amanda, how'd you find two ways actually to Megyn Kelly? I was. I listened to her on YouTube and I think you had. She had you on one of her shows and I, I was compelled to. To listen in.

[Mark]

All right, well, Amanda, grateful to you for being part of two Way. Please come back regularly and good luck.

[Amanda]

Thank you.

[Mark]

Show up in a couple hours.

[Dan]

You know, I know it's a small sample, but Amanda, other people, it's interesting to hear. You don't hear a lot of like. I'm super excited for JD Vance there. There's a note of caution or worry in these people's voices when they talk about them.

[Mark]

Yeah, some. Some.

[Dan]

Yep, some.

[Mark]

Paul, welcome in Unmute. Tell folks who don't know where you are what's on your mind for one.

[Dan]

Of the greatest trees there is.

[Mark]

Sean and Dan. Good morning, gentlemen.

[Dan]

Good morning.

[Mark]

Glad you like the tree. You guys are welcome to stop by if you're in the area. I'm in Bradenton, Florida, personal backyard. Anyway, beautiful. Main reason for raising my hand was to say how much I've enjoyed interacting, Dan, with you and Sean with you. I mean, you. The real world. I probably won't see you guys much anymore once you're off the show, but it's really, really the dynamics amongst the three of you is just. It's really enjoyable. Mark, I don't mean to leave you out. You'll still be around, but it's a great combination, the synergy. Thank you, sir.

[Dan]

Very kind of.

[Mark]

We agree. Thank you. Anyway, carry on. Thanks, guys. Appreciate it.

[Sean]

Thanks Paul.

[Mark]

All right, Brandon.

[Sean]

When you look at that backdrop, there's a reason people like Paul have a smile on their days.

[Mark]

Because you wake up every day and.

[Sean]

It looks that nice.

[Mark]

Yeah, I like that. The shirt was. The shirt was like camouflage. Brandon. Welcome in, sir. Tell folks who don't know where you are what's on your mind. Hello, I'm calling in from Rhode Island. Great state.

[Dan]

There you go.

[Mark]

From west Green, Edward Island. I have a few things about Epstein.

[Dan]

And then a question unrelated for both.

[Mark]

Go ahead. Just. I'm watching the clock, so be tight if you can, but please, please, go ahead.

[Dan]

First, you.

[Mark]

You asked for historical analogs. There is the finders club, the call boys situation with Reagan that happened in the 80s. Youngstown, Ohio. Yep. If people want to know more specifics, there's a investigative journalist, Whitney Webb. I recommend her for people. And regarding the pardon on Ghislaine Max 12, I think the only way Maga will be okay with it is if at the same time Trump pardons John Kiriakou, Edward snowden and Julian assange and all those people. That'd be quite a Christmas Eve.

[Dan]

Wow.

[Mark]

Yeah. I don't know, Brennan. Are those. Do you know. Are those folks still. I know they'd like pardons, but is there an organized effort to get those guys pardons? Do you know?

[Dan]

I know Kiriako is.

[Mark]

Yeah. And I think Snowden and Sanj was probably given up by now. Yeah. I wonder what those guys do all day. Brennan, did you have. Those are great points. You have another. Another point you want to make or question?

[Dan]

You want to ask?

[Mark]

Not about Epstein, but. Yeah, that's it.

[Dan]

About Epstein.

[Mark]

Okay, then my unrelated question is for you 3. Which First lady you think would have made the best president? Wow. All right. Where's first lady, best president? Sean?

[Sean]

Oh, that's actually. That. That. That would be a great, like, dinner conversation. There are some good experts on first ladies that have written books that I would defer. I. I'm just. I'm going back in modern history. I feel like there's a huge area of history that I probably don't know enough about the. The lives of the first ladies to give you a good answer. So.

[Mark]

All right, Dan.

[Sean]

Nancy Reagan, maybe right up Dan has.

[Mark]

To say Hillary, probably.

[Dan]

I would. I would say. Whether you say it or not, I'll give you two. Eleanor Roosevelt, it sounds like, was a real force and. And unafraid and. And. And Hillary Clinton, who I think would have been a great, great president.

[Mark]

Edith Wilson, Laura Bush and Hillary Clinton. Brennan. Thank you. Grateful to you, Laura Bush would have been incredible president. Sean, welcome. Tell us what you.

[Dan]

I think J.D. vance's wife would make an interesting president.

[Mark]

Oh, yeah, but she's not first lady, so I didn't count.

[Dan]

Yeah, I know, but like, you know, second lady.

[Mark]

John, what do you have tonight?

[Sean]

Oh, I thought you. I, I literally was. I thought you were calling on somebody.

[Mark]

No, no, that's. What do you have? What do you have on tonight?

[Sean]

Well, our good friend Jessica Reed Kraus from House and Habit is going to be on. She's been covering Epstein like no one else. And, and so we'll talk about that. The Maha movement, which is obviously something else that she's been intimately involved with.

[Dan]

And a big hire on the Maha side at the White House here.

[Sean]

Yeah, Dan, we might even get into Olivia Newsy if we have time.

[Dan]

Forget Epstein. I got nothing today. Just enjoying Wednesday.

[Mark]

All right, 10 o' clock in matter of moments, my weekly appearance with Michael smerconish on Sirius XM. Then at noon, Meghan McCain joined by Ryan Graduski. Brilliant guy. That's at noon on Citizen McCain here on Two Way. Please join Megan there. Six o' clock tonight. Two Way tonight, regular time, six o', clock. We'll have all the coverage of all the news and then again, Special Extended Program, 7 o'. Clock. Ari David, founder and editor in chief of Upward News. If you're not familiar with Upward News, take a look. It's an extraordinary daily newsletter and Ari's going to lead a conversation about antisemitism, the conservative movement, and amongst his guests will be Laura Loomer. So please join ari right after 2A tonight at 6. Kind of a two way to night double header extended edition. So 6 to 7 and then also at 7, Bridget with real America. Here's a preview.

[Sean]

It's a little over five years after the pandemic and instead of looking at what did and didn't work, it feels like the people in charge, the geniuses in charge, who often made bad decisions, are just trying to memory hole all.

[Mark]

Of it out of existence.

[Sean]

Specifically, we want to talk about the school closures. This week on Real America.

[Mark]

Did your kids suffer?

[Sean]

Have they bounced back? Did you see lasting effects five years later? How do you feel about it all? I know it's hard to look back on it and it can be traumatic, but unless we examine what happened, we're.

[Mark]

Doomed to repeat it.

[Sean]

Join me, Bridget Fetish, on Real America, Wednesday, November 19th at 7pm Eastern, 6pm Central. We will be live discussing this. You can register to join the conversation.

[Mark]

At Two Way TV.

[Sean]

BridgetZoom. Or you can simply watch the episode at Real America Fantasy on YouTube.

[Dan]

The very cool sweatshirt she had on. Yeah.

[Mark]

So those. That's four. Four hours. Four hours of additional two way programming coming to you later today. Again, extended edition of two WAY tonight. Megan at noon and then Bridget at seven. And a reminder that if you'd like to sponsor this program, you can send us an email or any of the two way programs, really. Send us an email sponsorSooWay TV. Tell us about your interest and we'll connect with you to go over a bunch of stuff tomorrow at this time. We'll be back or at 9am Eastern time. And and again, a reminder, no programs next week for either the morning meeting or two Way Tonight. We're on Thanksgiving holiday, but we'll be back with you the same thing live.

[Dan]

It's not, not a new thing.

[Mark]

Yes, we take, we take the week off to be with family. We hope you do the same. And we'll be back this program tonight on, on, on Saturday, on Monday. It's December 1st, right?

[Dan]

December 1st.

[Mark]

All right, thank you all for watching. We'll see you in 23 hours. Have a great day.