Democrats Feud With Each Other Over "Rogue Democrat Senators" Who Are Breaking Ranks To End Shutdown

Summary

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Episode Overview

Main Theme:
This episode centers on the internal Democratic Party conflict following the decision by eight Senate Democrats—referred to as "rogue senators"—who broke ranks to end a lengthy government shutdown. The panel dissects why this happened, the impact on future Democratic strategies (especially on health care), the fallout in party politics, and the wider implications for the 2026 and 2028 elections.
Hosts: Mark Halperin (2WAY), Sean Spicer, Dan Turrentine

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. How the Shutdown Ended: The Eight "Rogue" Democrats

• Mark introduces the day’s main subject: With the government shutdown ended by eight Democratic senators breaking from party lines, the big question is why this happened and what it means for the party.
  • "[Eight Democratic senators] broke not just from their colleagues and their leader, but from online blue Twitter and MSNBC. A very big moment for the Democratic Party..." (01:09)
• Audio Mashup—Senators Explain Votes [09:00]
  • Claire McCaskill: "This is the beginning to show and find fight for Americans across the country. With the government open, we can focus on passing a bipartisan budget for 2026."
  • Jean Shaheen: "I understand not all of my Democratic colleagues are satisfied with this agreement, but waiting another week or month wouldn't deliver a better outcome."
• Chuck Schumer's Position [10:08]:
  • Mark, paraphrasing: "Schumer offers a lackluster no vote, signaling little real opposition, leading to criticism of his leadership."
  • Ro Khanna and others pile on, suggesting Schumer failed to unify and lead (10:20).

Notable Quote

"I think definitely it was a plus for Democrats. We have framed the issue... our party is fighting how we best fight for everyday Americans. Republicans are fighting about whether or not they should platform Nazis."
— Claire McCaskill (11:14)

2. Was This a Democratic 'Win' or Did They 'Cave'?

• Internal Democratic Division:
  • Mark raises how many prominent left voices (Sanders, Ro Khanna, progressive podcasts) think Democrats "caved" while others are spinning it as a victory for reframing the narrative around health care and daily costs.
• Strategic Analysis:
  • Sean: The eight senators "bailed out everybody," preventing further pain for both the public and the party (14:16).
  • Dan: "We lost the shutdown battle. The question is, can you win the health care war?" (13:43)
• Real-World Consequences:
  • "People were going to go hungry at Thanksgiving, air traffic was going to start grinding to a halt, more and more paychecks missing..." —Dan (14:59)
• Party Infighting:
  • Some House Dems and even Jean Shaheen’s own daughter (Stephanie), running for Congress, publicly oppose the deal their "moderate" parents made (16:34).
  • "Doesn't seem fair to those eight." —Mark (18:02).

3. Next Steps: Legislative and Political Fallout

• Mark: Asks what comes next legislatively, with votes in the House and Senate, and the looming health care clash (12:08).
• Sean: "All we've done is a very Washington thing, which is buy time... We'll be back at this in 12 weeks." (12:26)
• Dan: Now, focus shifts to health care, where Republicans are divided and Democrats more united—for now (13:43).

Notable Quote

"The Dems were never going to win this and they knew it. This was the equivalent of us with the wall, you know, eight years ago… those eight people bailed out everybody else."
— Sean Spicer (14:16)

4. The Political Blame Game and 2026/2028 Ramifications

• Mark: Points out that everyone opposing the deal is likely to use it as a talking point, but the "rogues" probably won’t pay within their own states—except for Schumer, whose leadership is in question (18:11).
• Dan & Sean: Discuss Schumer’s lack of a clear strategy and the Democrats’ muddled health care message heading into the next cycle (21:11-21:24).
• Ezra Klein’s Critique:
  • Mark reads Klein’s indictment—shutdowns are an opportunity to make your arguments, but Democrats folded out of fear of public pain.
  • Dan & Sean both stress: "These aren't pawns… they're American people's lives." (22:07-22:19)
• Sean: “Nobody's ever done a shutdown and won.” (23:08)

5. Republican Side & The Pardons

• President Trump's Late-Night Pardons [27:58]:
  • Mark: "Giuliani, Powell, Chesebro and dozens more… Sean, why did he do this and will it have an impact?"
  • Sean: "Popular with the MAGA base... question is, why now?"
  • Dan: "Swing voters don't like it... does not play well outside the MAGA base." (29:11)
• Democratic Dilemma: Where to focus? Corruption scandals or daily-life issues like affordability? (29:38)

6. Booing, Presidential Fatigue, and Optics

• Trump at D.C. Football Game Booed, Dozing Footage [31:16]:
  • Dan: "It's not a distraction… sure, have some fun with it, but the corruption/pardons should be woven into talking points."
  • Sean: "The dozing off stuff... not something I would sweat. What upset me was booing during service members’ swearing-in." (33:09-34:42)

7. Democratic 2028 Preview: Gavin Newsom’s Surge

• Mark: Raves about Newsom’s high-performing Texas speech, noting he’s establishing himself as a Democratic frontrunner.
• Should Democrats “slow him down” with oppo research?
  • Sean: It’s risky. "Playing that game is dangerous because if you get caught, it doesn't end well" (38:24).
  • Dan: Too soon; the party is divided and would rather play up its own strengths for now (37:48).

Notable Exchange

"What calendar would you want if you were Newsom?"
— Mark (40:16)
"Nevada... he's got good relations with labor, it's closer to Sacramento."
— Dan (40:26)
"But New Hampshire gives the small guy the play. You want a place where money matters."
— Sean (41:04)

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Audience Q&A Highlights

1. Baltimore Crime Dilemma [45:04–49:41]

• John (caller, ex-Baltimore Sun staff): “Why isn’t Baltimore fixed after 20 or 30 years?”
• Dan: "Should never be acceptable… The party made a real mistake on that. Voters want crime brought down. Period."
• Sean: Real tragedy is "we start to hide the statistics," decriminalize, or under-report (49:10).

2. The Shutdown, the Media, and Health Care [50:55–57:53]

• Jack (caller): Frustrated both parties and especially the media—cable news has become advocacy rather than reporting.
• Sean: "There was unbelievable bias... Democrats couldn’t answer what they were fighting for, and they got let off the hook every time." (52:55)
• Dan: "Healthcare is not an easy, simple issue. If it were, people would have solved it multiple times." (53:15)
• Mark: Media bias is perennial, "but far less than any shutdown I've ever covered… actually potentially a watershed" (55:02).

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Important Timestamps & Segments

• 09:00 — Senators McCaskill and Shaheen on their votes
• 11:14 — McCaskill’s Fox/MSNBC dichotomy zinger
• 12:08 — Next steps: House, Senate, and “kicking the can” on health care
• 14:16 — Sean on Dems “never going to win this”
• 16:34 — House primaries, intra-party attacks (Stephanie vs. Jean Shaheen)
• 21:24 — Schumer’s missed opportunities, Ezra Klein critique
• 27:58 — Trump’s late-night pardons, “why now?”
• 31:16 — Trump booed and “dozing” optics
• 37:48 — Newsom’s positioning in 2028 preview
• 45:04–49:41 — Baltimore crime Q&A
• 50:55–57:53 — Q&A: Shutdown media bias, health care complexity

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Notable Quotes

• “These aren’t pawns on a chessboard. They’re American people’s lives. That’s what he’s [Ezra Klein] missing.” — Dan [22:19]
• “Shutdowns are an opportunity to make your arguments, and the country was just starting to pay attention….” — Ezra Klein, as read by Mark [21:55]
• "Nobody’s ever done a shutdown and won." — Sean [23:11]
• "The losing side of a shutdown never wins." — Sean [26:38]

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Tone

• Conversational and frank, with quick banter and sarcasm, especially regarding Democrats' infighting and politicians' public posturing.
• Heavy on realpolitik analysis (how things actually work vs. what’s said on TV).
• Sean Spicer brings cynicism and tactical Republican insight.
• Dan Turrentine is pragmatic about Democratic weaknesses and wary of party overreach.
• Mark Halperin plays neutral moderator, synthesizer, and devil’s advocate.
• Audience Q&As introduce more grounded, practical concerns.

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Conclusion

This episode highlights the deep strategic schism within the Democratic Party following a drawn-out government shutdown, the risks faced by “rogue” senators, and looming battles over health care. It features frank assessments of political leadership, legislative process mechanics, electoral ramifications, and the complicated realities of party unity in an election run-up. The panel critiques both parties—and the media—while previewing political narratives likely to dominate in the weeks and months ahead.

Transcript

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[Mark]

Spotify, Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcasts. Morning everybody. Welcome to the morning meeting. On the day after a big deal was struck, we're going to break down what goes next in the wake of eight Democratic senators breaking not just from their colleagues and their leader, but from online blue Twitter and blue sky and msnbc. A very big moment for the Democratic Party and not really clear exactly what happened, but we'll try to explain it to you. Everything about the deal then President Trump's late night pardons of Rudy Giuliani and many others, Democrats concerned that the President is being booed and falling asleep and opposition research. Rahm Emanuel shows some of his cards in a Wall Street Journal op ed. All that and more right here on the morning meeting. Gentlemen. Sean, are you wearing fairway and green?

[Sean]

Am I wearing a fairway and green?

[Mark]

What do you got on there? What do you got on there?

[Sean]

Yeah, I got that. Just another beautiful well fitting comfortable fairway and green polo. This one striped. I'm not a big fan of stripe but for some reason you're. You put a fairway in green shirt on me and stripes are okay. This is branded with the logo on the side.

[Dan]

You know, I didn't think Red Sox fans wore pinstripes, but I guess they do.

[Mark]

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[Mark]

Right, now we're going to run through the daybook. We're going to chat about the deal and everything else. And then if you're here on the two way platform and want to get in on the conversation as always, we'll take your questions. If you're here, please raise your hand. This meeting is based on the Network News Division's morning meetings they have every day just like this. They talk about what's happening forward looking emphasis. If you're watching on X or YouTube, no smack in the chat. We urge you to just think about peace, love and understanding and no smack in the chat please. And we're excited to tell you about our new sponsor, Chef IQ. Go to chefiq.com I'll tell you what you can do there for a big 30% off over the weekend to talk to someone about their Thanksgiving. It's coming up and they said last year on Thanksgiving they put the turkey in the oven and the oven wasn't really working, but they didn't realize that till it was too late. So horrible story. Particularly if you're squirmish about undercooked poultry. They took the turkey out and semi raw, they sliced it and then microwaved it. You don't want this.

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Can you have done instead though?

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[Sean]

Yeah, I was gonna say he's not gonna have Justine on no.

[Mark]

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[Dan]

I wonder if he announces his retirement this week.

[Mark]

Well, he was asked about that in an interview I saw over the weekend. And you know, it is. I'll. I'll summarize this response Shorter. Jim Clyburn, Humida hum and a humidity.

[Dan]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

[Mark]

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[Claire McCaskill]

This is the beginning to show and find fight for Americans across the country. Let me just say this. With the government open, we can focus on passing a full bipartisan budget for 2026.

[Jean Shaheen]

I understand that not all of my Democratic colleagues are satisfied with this agreement, but waiting another week or another month wouldn't deliver a better outcome.

[Mark]

It was our judgment after six weeks going on seven weeks of this shutdown that that path wasn't working. Airlines, which have been that Schumer sound that Shaheen sound bites. In some ways, the key, as I understand it from talking to folks and reading the coverage, they didn't think there was a better deal coming up anytime soon. We interesting. Later this week, when Senator from New Jersey Cory Booker is supposed to speak at a big dinner in New Hampshire that Shaheen and her colleague who also voted for the deal, will be at because a lot of the energy in the room will be against the deal that their own senators voted for. Also against the deal. Senator Chuck schumer. Here's his 12 second explanation. 106B, please.

[Dan]

For months and months, Democrats have been.

[Mark]

Fighting to get the Senate to address.

[Dan]

The health care crisis.

[Mark]

This bill does nothing to ensure that.

[Dan]

That crisis is addressed.

[Mark]

I am voting no and I will keep fighting despite that. 107. Ro Khanna and other Democrats are saying Schumer failed. He should have kept the aid in line.

[Dan]

Yeah. By the way, he doesn't say, I urge my colleagues to vote against this.

[Sean]

Right.

[Mark]

Yeah.

[Sean]

Might as well have winked at the end of that video been like, hey, I'm voting no.

[Mark]

You all do what you got to do. Schumer is no longer effective and should be replaced. Ronna tweeted, if you can't lead to the fight to stop health care premiums from skyrocketing for Americans, what will you fight for? Now, Bernie Sanders, Ro Khanna and I and many others agree that the Democrats basically caved. But there are some who are saying Democrats actually won this fight and achieved so very, very much. I don't know how many of them actually believe it versus spin, but here's someone I respect. This is Claire McCaskill, former senator, on Morning Joe, claiming victory 111.

[Claire McCaskill]

I think definitely it was a plus for Democrats. We have framed the issue for the country now it is very clear what the Democrats are fighting for and what they're fighting against. We've got Trump tearing down the White House and figuring out ways to get tax breaks to billionaires in the back door. And we're arguing about the best way to fight for most Americans for their health care costs and for other costs that they're facing every day. And listen, I mean, are there disagreements within the party about how best to do this? Yeah, there are. But you know, our party, the Democratic Party, is fighting how we best fight for everyday Americans. And you know what the Republicans are fighting about? The Republicans are fighting about whether or not they should platform Nazis. So, I mean, I like that we have a disagreement about the best way to do it.

[Mark]

All right, let's talk first about just the legislative process here before we talk about whether it was a big win for the Democrats or not. First, Sean, what happens next? What does Rand Paul do? What does the House do? And then what happens on health care?

[Sean]

So a few things. One, by passing the, the, the three additional bills, the military, the VA part of it, they're taking a lot of the stuff off the table, which is really important as we go forward. That's that' to this deal. Because when we go into January and we shut the government down again. In case you haven't seen the trilogy, I think we're probably at this point that's going to be a big deal because it's going to lessen the blow. So, I mean, look, I think they get the votes. Today goes to the House. The House will vote on Wednesday. Thursday, it opens back up again on health care. Everyone, I asked last night the same thing over and over again. What's the deal? Punt was the word of the night. Punt. They'll have a vote. And then I think this is where it's going to get complicated. Hopefully, if the Democrats are smart, this is where it gets interesting for Republicans because now we've got to figure out duration of subsidies, if any, and percentage of overall. So this is where I think that, you know, and then, plus, oh, by the way, we're kicking the can for what, 12 weeks when we're going to have to do this all over again. So, I mean, all we've done is a very Washington thing, which is to buy time.

[Mark]

Dan, anything part of the legislative process you wanted to highlight that John didn't mention?

[Dan]

No, I think the only thing I would add is just kind of splitting the Claire McCaskill thing, which is that, look, we lost the shutdown battle. The question is, can you win the health care war for the reason that Sean just said, which is now you are turning attention to that. And that is where we are more united. Republicans are more divided. You had Trump saying, we'll send money in Cassidy directly to people like it splits everything in half. So I think to move on, right, because it's real lives of real people and focus on healthcare.

[Sean]

But Daniel, can we just go back to just real quick on the deal? I mean, look, there's a lot of things that I think we can take away. One, the Dems were never going to win this and they knew it. This was the equivalent of us with the wall, you know, eight years ago, which was. It was just a matter of time before you, quote, caved. Every one of those Democrats owes a debt of gratitude to the eight that jumped in. Because the reality was all it was going to do is get more painful. The air traffic control was coming to a grinding halt. And I think that the reality is those eight people bailed out everybody else and they should, they can put out their cute little statements, but at the end of the day, they should give them a little slap on the back later today and say, hey, thanks for doing this for me.

[Dan]

I mean, I totally agree with you. The idea that People were going to go hungry at Thanksgiving, that air traffic was going to start grinding to a halt, that people were going to have more and more paychecks missing when, by the way, some of these people voted, what is it, 150,000 federal employees are in their combined three, three of the senators states like the real lives of real people. Like when the party says just squeeze harder and like we'll keep it shut down till January, like that's insane in terms of people's lives. It just is.

[Mark]

So what, what's, what's. I know none of the eight are up for re election and I know they're of a certain category of, you know, problem solvery types. But why, why was it just those eight was because Schumer secretly said, let's get eight. And that's why Durbin had to do it, because there wasn't an eighth and bourbon fell on his sword.

[Dan]

Well, somebody with Mr. Jeffrey's office pointed out to me this morning, like where the House is frustrated and the party's frustrated is Shaheen and others from day one were saying, we're having a conversation. We're trying to think of a way to negotiate out of this and to summon the party. You undercut our stance from day one. There was a group that was never comfortable with the shutdown, which we talked about I think in August. And they kept as they should, working toward a solution to avoid the pain to real lives of real people. And so I think it's not that this suddenly they kick started, it's that for 40 days they sat there and stared at a wall while some were negotiating. And they just said, are we really going to stay dug in for two more months?

[Mark]

Almost any Democrat with a tough primary is going to come out against this deal. Right? Because they have to. Let me read you a statement from one Democrat who's running for Congress in a contested primary. House primary. Improving health care has been the cause of my life. It's why I'm running for Congress. So I cannot support this deal when Speaker Johnson refuses to even allow a vote to extend health care tax credit. Too many people see health care costs that are already too high skyrocket. This means more people will be uninsured. We need to add both, end the shutdown and extend the tax credits. Otherwise no deal goes on. Interesting though, the reason I'm highlighting this particular statement, even though it sounds like many others. Stephanie Shaheen, Jean Shaheen's own daughter who's running for the House in New Hampshire, opposes the deal. Her mother just Thanksgiving should Be fine. Yeah. I guess. I ask again for either of you, why these eight? Why exactly eight? And why these eight? Because Schumer sanctioned it or just by coincidence or. Exactly.

[Sean]

Durbin piece is the one that kind of does.

[Mark]

Yeah.

[Sean]

Does not fit for me, which is a member of leadership.

[Mark]

It. It seems like Shaheen and company couldn't get an eighth. And Schumer and Durbin said, well, we got to do this because we've talked.

[Dan]

About Durbin here since September again, that he was one of the people we all pointed to, to say. Because I think, because at the end of the day, they know this is. They've got to get out of it. They can't continue to squeeze people this hot. Like real people.

[Mark]

But if these, but if these eight. If these eight saved everybody else in the party, which is, I think, what a lot of people believe.

[Dan]

Yep.

[Mark]

Now they're just being pilloried, including by Jean Jehin's own daughters, effectively attacking her mom. Like, doesn't seem nice. Doesn't seem fair to those eight.

[Sean]

Sure.

[Dan]

But I bet they all, like, I think in Nevada, they won't pay a price. Fetterman's not going to ultimately pay. I mean, just go around the map. Chris Pappas can say what he wants, but he'll. He should still be. I mean, they, they fell on the sword for the part. The one who's going to probably take the heat now is Schumer.

[Sean]

Yes. I mean, this is why.

[Dan]

This is the whole forecast in August he played. This is exactly what we forecast.

[Sean]

And, and, and they're literally just crapping on him the most because it was so fake. The guy literally. I mean, like, his. It's just so inauthentic. And we've talked about the degree of authenticity. You two are. You two.

[Mark]

You two are the Schumer brain trust in the play. Play acting we're about to do. And we turn the clock back four months and you see exactly what's transpired. What could he have done differently?

[Dan]

I think what I would do is I would be communicating to the party now. We have the health care fight now. Like, this is it, right. We reopen the government because millions and millions of people were going to start starving and flight cancellations, but now we are going to fight over health care. It is the defining issue of the next four months. Like, instead he's just like, I'm a no. This is a bad deal. Like, he's making it worse for himself.

[Mark]

He did say the health care thing, but let me ask you this, because Bernie doesn't think Democrats won. No, no. Online blue person thinks they won.

[Dan]

Even you lost the battle.

[Mark]

Even the podcast bros don't think they won. And on health care, like I agree the Republicans are extremely ridiculous on this and vulnerable but Democrats position ranges from single payer to let's talk to Bill Cassidy about sending money to people directly and bypassing insurance companies. Like won't they have a problem in 26 and 28 John having beyond the offense on health care when I can tell you what the Democratic Party position.

[Dan]

On health care extend the ACA credits. There it is.

[Mark]

Well, but that's not. But that's not. But that's not happening.

[Dan]

Oh oh, we'll see about that, Mark. I mean, yeah, I think it is. It goes back to.

[Mark]

Well, I shouldn't say. I shouldn't say it's not happening.

[Dan]

The government. I shouldn't say simple.

[Mark]

I shouldn't say it's not happening. I'm saying is that doesn't satisfy the whole party. That's not enough.

[Dan]

I mean there'll be some fringe but. Yeah, well.

[Sean]

Yeah, well I think that like if I were I think the, the Dem messaging is easier than the Republican because they will buy into extending a lot easier than, than our side doesn't have a consistent or cohesive. I mean you've got to your point, hey, let's just give everyone a ton of money to. We got to blow the system up again. We got to stop subsidizing insurance companies. We played this game nine years, eight years ago and there was no answer. So I don't know. I think that to go back to the part of your question, I think one, Schumer should have made this argument a lot earlier. And two is or strategically said, guys, we'll keep the government open but we'll put them on defense. On health care, there was no strategy and that was the thing is even we talked to this every day. What was, what did they want?

[Dan]

What's the end game vote?

[Sean]

Was it. And there was no defined strategy and there was no leadership and if anything that's what Schumer should go down for is the fact that nobody understood what they were actually trying to get.

[Mark]

All right, two more things on the on the deal and then we'll move on to some other topics. And then again, get to your questions. Raise your hand if you wanted Ezra Klein says he would have voted no if he were senator. I know you were all waiting to find out what he would say. Here's 112. This is what Ezra wrote this morning in the wake of the deal. And I just want to go sentence by sentence and ask you guys, just both of you agree or disagree? First sentence, he says he would have voted against it. Shutdowns are an opportunity to make your arguments, and the country was just starting to pay attention. It's a two part thing. Do you guys agree with that sentence? No.

[Dan]

Yeah, a little bit.

[Jack]

I don't pay attention.

[Sean]

I mean, there's a difference.

[Dan]

Well, because the pain points were getting higher, so more people were dialing into it. Yeah.

[Mark]

Okay. All right, but what about the first part? Shut down is an opportunity to make your arguments.

[Dan]

Oh, sure, we have for 40 days.

[Mark]

All right. If Trump wanted to cancel flights over Thanksgiving rather than keep health care costs down, I don't see why Democrats should save him for making his priorities so exquisitely clear.

[Dan]

Because you're squeezing people that mean. That's the problem. These aren't pawns on a chessboard. They're American people's lives. But that's what he's missing.

[Mark]

But implicit in that also is that Trump was going to be blamed for the canceled flights.

[Dan]

Well, he has been blamed for the shutdown. That's clear as day.

[Sean]

I don't know about this. I think that Sean Duffy's done a fantastic job of making safety the priority, and I don't think anybody.

[Dan]

But who do people blame for the shutdown?

[Sean]

I think there's a Republicans by a little bit more. Look, we had two thirds of the problems you have. I mean, Republicans in the legislative branch and Trump versus Democrats. So, yeah, we bore a little bit more. But I also believe that as it went on, that was a risk the Democrats were taking.

[Mark]

Of course, of course I worry the Democrats have just taught Trump that they will fold under pressure.

[Dan]

No, I mean, this goes to the fact that nobody's ever done a shutdown and won.

[Sean]

Correct. That's a bigger takeaway. That's the. That's it.

[Dan]

The shutdown caucus is over 14 now.

[Mark]

Okay, last sentence. I'll skip some. It's not a win meaning for Democrats, but given how badly shutdowns often go for the opposition party, it's better than a loss. Dan. Agree with that.

[Dan]

So what does that mean? I mean, this is what it goes to. So I would ask Ezra, if this goes on till January and people are starving and airport traffic stops and Trump does not get, should we just keep going because it becomes a who? You know, what is biggest.

[Mark]

But is it better than a loss for the Democrats what happened?

[Dan]

No, because what you do is you say you lost the battle but we're going to win the war. Like, that's where the party's got to get its head around. Health care went from being like in number seven or eight in polls of what's most important to literally number two or three behind inflation in the economy. So affordability, which is what that fits into, was big on Tuesday. Today, we all would agree it's still a pretty big issue. We are on offense in that fight. Republicans get to that terrain. Stop. You weren't going to go 1 for 13. You were going to go over 14. Just like Obama was never going to cave into Ted Cruz.

[Mark]

Sean, what's the White House and Hill Republican strategy now on health care? Between.

[Sean]

That's the problem is that the dog just caught the car and we've got to figure that like, and this is where we can't take our foot off the gas and go, okay, we won, it's now what? So this is going to be the problem. And this again is where if Schumer had been a real leader, he would have said, I just, I'm going to box them in on an issue that they don't have an answer for. And he blew it. And that's the video. Even just now he had an opportunity to act like he had a plan. He didn't. Now the problem is, I mean, Republicans better get their act together really quick because you've got people, Marjorie Taylor Greene coming out and saying I want to extend the subsidies or at least that's the perception of what she said. And you're going to have a food fight within there about. Is it, do we extend them at all? Do we extend them for six months? Do we extend them at X percent of what they are? I mean, so I don't, I don't.

[Mark]

Think, I don't think the House will extend the subsidies without a lot of market reform.

[Sean]

I agree.

[Mark]

Oh, huge.

[Sean]

But that's, but, but, but here's the thing. You're playing with a three seat majority. So tell me what the consensus is.

[Dan]

You're also playing with an issue that is now expiring so people have something and you are now taking it away from, from them. And that is a huge incentive to like. All right, we may theoretically have a lot of reforms, but we have to pass this now because I cannot have tens of thousands of my constituents losing health care.

[Mark]

Right. Okay, last thing, not every 2028 potential candidate has weighed in. But those who have been along these lines, here's Gavin Newsom. 115, please. On social media, after his very well received Appearances over the weekend. America deserves better. Dan, will this vote be an issue in 2028?

[Dan]

Not in 2028, but it will be in the, in our prime, in House incentive primaries, you know, coming up here and starting in three months.

[Mark]

But won't everybody be against it?

[Dan]

I don't know. I, I do think there, in some states, it will behoove you to say I, I am not a fan of shutting the government down.

[Mark]

Right.

[Sean]

What I don't get, though, can I just say this?

[Dan]

Cortez Mastro and Jackie Rosen won't pay a price for that stance at all.

[Sean]

What frustrates me about this whole thing, and I get the, like, I, like there's a politics and a strategy piece to this, but there's also a pathetic piece to this, which is to go around and say America deserves better. With all due respect, I get Governor Newsom's trying to be political, and I have some respect for that part of it. But what is you. I mean, explain to me, and this is what I still can't. I mean, the overall takeaway is the losing side of a shutdown never wins. I mean, like, if you're on the backside, we're 14 and oh, on this, no side's ever been able to explain what you really are getting for and why. It's okay. Everybody's on record at one point or another over the last 20 years saying shutdowns are bad ideas. So suddenly to come out and say America deserves better without giving any example of what, what you were going to do differently is really pathetic.

[Mark]

One more point to hit. Sean told us if the Thune kept the Senate in, they would solve it. He kept the Senate in.

[Dan]

There you go.

[Mark]

And they solved it.

[Sean]

Well, I will say I think air traffic control did have a little something.

[Mark]

To do with it, but it was the confluence. All right. Late last night, the White House announcer Ed Martin at the just department, that's something that the president did on Friday. 122 pardons for a gaggle of people who were connected to January 6th. That's not the right. 110-1-22, please. 122.

[Sean]

We can talk about that.

[Mark]

Giuliani, Powell, Chesbrough, and dozens more involved in 2020 fake electors case. Sean, why did he do this? And will it have an impact?

[Sean]

Will it have an impact? I think, at least from the MAGA base, it seems very, very popular right now there. I mean, so I, I don't know.

[Mark]

I start with why. Why did he do it?

[Sean]

Because I, I mean, none of them.

[Mark]

None of Them face federal charges.

[Dan]

Right.

[Sean]

But I think that what we've. There's obvious of. I mean, the bigger question in my mind is why now? Because clearly it was teed up.

[Mark]

Right. You know why? I mean, maybe why now? Because he thought it'd be buried in the.

[Dan]

I was just gonna say no, no.

[Sean]

But I think that the question is, I mean, you may have been ready to go and you pulled the plug because you're like, hey, let's bury it. But that, that kind of list, as you saw that Ed Martin put out, is rather extensive. It's like 200 people. So therefore they had this ready to go.

[Mark]

Right. So I'll ask again. Why?

[Dan]

Why do you do it since January 21st?

[Mark]

Why? Why do you do it? And, and, and will it have an impact?

[Sean]

Well, I mean, I think why. Because they wanted to protect these people from. In case they lose the House.

[Mark]

Dan, will this have an impact?

[Dan]

I don't. Yes and no. I think collectively all of these pardons that are clearly his like, personal grievance where the country is not really with him. Yes, it could. It could just like Rahm Emanuel's corruption, you know, the kind of documenting of the, of the alleged corruption and these pardons. It does. Swing voters don't like it. They just don't like it. And I think that's. You've seen it in last Tuesday a little bit. Right.

[Mark]

So Democrats continue to be divided about where to focus. Should they go after every little thing Donald Trump does or every big thing he does, or should they just be focused on affordability? Here's two issues filling my inbox. Democrats quite active. First, the president went to a football game. And apparently if you're Donald Trump, would the district vote for, for, for parents? 90.

[Dan]

Well, it's technically in Prince George's county, which is probably 90. 10.

[Mark]

Yeah. So if you go, if you go to a football. But they come from all over, obviously, if you go to it, if you go to a sporting event in the D.C. area and you're Donald Trump, this is what's likely to happen. Number 123, please. All right. And then here's, here's 125B from the Oval Office last week at that event over injectors. People can sleep again because they can see the president there. People can sleep again. Just following Dr. Odds Oz's advice. People can sleep again. And here's, here's 125A. This is Gavin Newsome having some fun with, with this dozy. Don is back because it appears the president is. Let's say he's resting his eyes and then the president's poll numbers are down in some polls. And so again, if you're a Democrat who wants to say, finally, Lucy did not take her finger off the football. She did not pull it up in the air. Charlie Brown has kicked now the ball through the uprights. Dan, is these things booing, sleeping poll numbers? Is this, is this it? Is this the moment the left has been waiting for or just another mirage and distraction?

[Dan]

Yeah, it's, well, it's not a distraction in that. Look, booing is whatever. It's a Democratic city. If Kamala Harris went to the lsu, Auburn game or Alabama game Saturday night, I bet she would have been rude if she were on there. I think, you know, the fact that Trump has dozed off like before in the Oval Office, the fact that he is getting older, his base isn't going to leave him from it. But sure, you know, you can have a little fun with him on that stuff. You know, to me, the corruption, the pardons, it won't be the focus, but it should be woven into stump speeches and talking points, for sure.

[Mark]

Sean, I've fallen asleep during a live television interview, a live radio interview, and in a Supreme Court oral argument. So I stand second to no, the Supreme Court.

[Sean]

1. I could see why. I mean, I would probably.

[Mark]

Well, I was there to hear a case in which I was a plaintiff. But you hear, you hear the case before you, too.

[Dan]

Aren't the lights turned down low there in the spring?

[Mark]

Oh, my God. And, and it's like the Council on Foreign Relations is basically asking you to fall asleep. Now, that Oval Office event was quite lengthy. The presence, you know, he can be tired, too. But, but if you were the White House press secretary, would you be looking to avoid those situations? And if so, how would you get him an iced tea, Diet Coke? Like, how do you avoid nodding off?

[Sean]

He's got plenty of Diet Cokes. Look, I think the one thing that is different in Trump world, taking this in reverse, the dozing off stuff, it's not like the president's not visible and working right. He's on trips, he's coming back, he's doing this. I think, and I say this in all seriousness, like I think people half his age would be exhausted, watch, you.

[Dan]

Know, trying to keep.

[Mark]

All true. But how do you keep him from falling asleep?

[Dan]

The visuals of him falling asleep in the middle of his own meeting is not that were Joe Biden.

[Sean]

Yes, but the difference is that people believe the perception.

[Dan]

No, they don't.

[Mark]

Well, Some, some.

[Dan]

No, they don't.

[Mark]

Some do. But I'm just asking you from a practical matter, as a staffer, you don't want to happen. What do you do to keep him from.

[Sean]

No, no. So let's just get to it. If it was a pattern where it happened multiple times, I think we would say, Mr. President, let's have events earlier in the day or let' I think one event after the guy's been overseas, he's had a series of deals. I honestly, that's not something I would sweat. I will just weigh in on the booing thing. I get where the President was and I'm obviously, you know, 10 miles from there. I understand. You know, even if he'd come over to Virginia would have probably not been that different. What appalled me about that was that he was enlisting service members while that was happening on Veterans Day weekend. I found that disgusting and pathetic. If you are sitting there, you want to boo the President when he arrives or whatever, you have a first amendment right to do that. While members of our country are on the field being sworn into our armed services and that's how you act. It actually just viscerally upset the hell out of me to watch fellow Americans boo people who are on the field getting sworn in to serve our country. That I hope those images. No, no, no. But you could have waited. I mean, my point is time and a place and that was not it. The guy was there for a while. You want to boo his arrival or his departure. You have a first amendment right to do that. That was not the time to do it. Now you have a protected right to do it. I'm not. But, but here's my point. I want those photos. I will make, I will do what I can on social media to make sure that every one of those people that I can find in the audience booing while that was happening gets exposed. Because that to me is disgusting.

[Mark]

Can we jump to cnn? Just listen to a little more Gene Shaheen. She's defending her vote in the defense. They may not have heard what the President was saying. And secondarily in your defense, they might have been drunk out of their minds.

[Dan]

So it was, it was also he, he went to a football game to get a national. I mean, you know, he knew what he was doing.

[Jean Shaheen]

Let's listen to she going to change their position. So we need to get the government open because we have millions of Americans who are suffering, whether it's because they're not getting their food benefits or because travelers can't get their flights because of what's happening with the aviation system and air traffic controllers, federal employees who are not getting paid. And this is a deal that brings back those federal employees who were let go during the shutdown and make sure that everybody.

[Mark]

Tim Kaine is simultaneously on msnbc, also defending. He's another of the yes votes.

[Dan]

Well, that was his big boat, was getting the people rehire.

[Jean Shaheen]

Part of this deal was.

[Mark]

I just find it interesting that they're going out like normally these kind of groups don't go out on mass.

[Jean Shaheen]

In my experience.

[Mark]

They're everywhere today.

[Jean Shaheen]

Today, things like SNAP benefits program, the WIC program.

[Mark]

Hey, Lori, see if you can book Jean Shaheen and her daughter on two way tonight. I'd like them both. All right.

[Jean Shaheen]

Extending the premium tax.

[Mark]

Okay, you drop out of that. One more topic and then to your question. So please, if you're here in the conversation here on the platform, want to get in the conversation, raise your hand. We'd love some new people. So if you never raised your hand before, today's a good day. All right. Gavin Newsom. I don't know if you guys, you guys watch his speech in Texas.

[Dan]

I saw clips of it.

[Mark]

Yeah, it was excellent. It just. He was so good compared to most people. Right? I didn't say that.

[Dan]

Who we love, who we are, we love.

[Mark]

Great affection for. But he's not in that category. And he was pretty good with Tapper in his Sunday interview and got me thinking, you know, maybe he's getting so far out ahead that somebody needs to start taking him down in the Democratic Party. And then I opened up my Wall Street Journal this morning on the Amtrak train, the hard copy, like this, you know, shaking it out. And Rom has an op ed in the Journal today. It's about Gavin Newsom. No, it's about Donald Trump. 220. Where's that? What's the number for that one? That's Rom. 113, please. It's an op ed about Donald Trump and it makes the argument we can't. Well, here's the headline. Broken Windows and Trump Era Ethics. An old police lesson applies disorder sends a signal that it can fight a culture of corruption. He basically says there's so many things Trump's done that's corrupt in his view, that people can't lose sight of the fact that it's, it's moving the bar for what's acceptable. And now Trump's doing all sorts of things. He just keeps getting away with it. That's interesting, but. And of course, interesting that Rahm is writing in Both the Washington Post and the Wall Street Journal. But what's most interesting to me is this thing was not researched by Rahm. As much as he's a hands on guy, there's. He clearly has a very good researcher working for him. And it got me wondering whether, and I'm not, I'm saying Emmanuel will do it. But Dan, is it getting to the point where someone needs to slow down Gavin Newsom by putting out some oppo, whether it's a Republican or a Democrat, or is it too soon for that?

[Dan]

I think it's too soon because, look, I don't think in a crowded field and a divided party like we are, you want to be so far out in front because all the arrows will start going for you. Like it's hard to sustain that. I do think next spring and summer, as these primaries are happening and other candidates want to start positioning themselves, you will see some stuff. You will. And by the way, I think he is going to have a little rear guard action because of the gubernatorial primary in his own state. I don't think Katie Porter is going to get on in front of the cameras and say, I love Gavin Newsom. I'm going to continue everything Gavin Newsom is doing.

[Mark]

Sean, you think somebody's gonna get out or should get out and try to slow him down?

[Sean]

I kind of think that it might be a little soon on that front and I'd be a little careful. Playing that game is very dangerous because if you get caught, it doesn't end well. And so I only say that because like having an experienced team that knows how to drop breadcrumbs without anybody finding the source is important. And secondly, I, I think right now, if you're a Democrat, the last thing, I mean, I love it, but I, I don't know that you really want to be going blue on blue. It's not like you're missing the opportunity right now. So to be calling them out. There's plenty to be touting yourself if anything. If I were Rom or anyone else for that matter, I'd be trying to figure out, highlight why I'm the best person, why I'm creating the strategy, why I've got a way forward, why I can lead us out of the wilderness. Yeah, but going after somebody doesn't really help you right now. I think strategically this is the moment when people want to say that's the guy and that's what Newsom's doing correctly, is that he's the one that's out there. I think giving people promise and hope that he could be their savior.

[Dan]

Well, he had something tangible passing a ballot initiative to get these seats. So he had something. Now, you know, he's back.

[Mark]

We talk about Trump consolidating against his Republican rivals by going to East Palestine. And, and the other stuff he did and then, and then talked about Newsom very successful trip to South Carolina, going to Texas is brilliant. You know, no one, no one else could do that. And, and I do believe people are starting to talk about him slowing him down now. Let me ask you this. We've not seen any evidence that any of the potential Democrats have the influence or bandwidth to try to influence the schedule of the early primaries, which is if you were Newsom, Dan, what, what, what calendar would you want? What calendar plays to Newsom strengths?

[Dan]

I would probably want to go maybe Nevada. It's a little more culturally, it's a little more aligned. He's got good relations with labor closer.

[Mark]

To Sacramento too, by the way. What's that Closer to Sacramento? Yeah.

[Dan]

No, I mean, I think Nevad, I think where he doesn't want to go first is probably Iowa. It's a much more progressive area. He's a coastal person in a Midwestern state. South Carolina might be interesting for, I mean, but what about, what about Michigan.

[Sean]

Would be where I Michigan.

[Mark]

I think Michigan, because money is going to be matter more than anything. But what about New Hampshire? Should Newsom, should Newsom want New Hampshire to be early or not?

[Dan]

No, because you're the front runner. It's not a place you want to be. You want to have story is only about who could come up. Right.

[Sean]

New Hampshire gives the small guy the play and you want to go somewhere where money still matters, power, influence.

[Mark]

So, so Detroit and Vegas are his two big.

[Sean]

I would say Michigan is nice because it's a lot more diverse. It's a bigger media market. It's going to cost you a little bit more.

[Mark]

It's also closer.

[Sean]

It's also, I just don't know from a union standpoint, I would assume. I mean this is kind of a weird which union are you closer to the UAW or.

[Dan]

I think Michigan would be a little bit of a problem for him. I think the environmental stuff is not as black and white in that state. I think that the, the culture, it's a little more culturally conservative when you get outside of some of those areas. If I were rom repeat Buddha judge, I'd feel a lot better about Michigan and I and Shapiro.

[Mark]

One more on this, Dan, from inside baseball to super inside baseball. Do you think if the newsome people tries to influence this. They can.

[Dan]

That's. I was just thinking that as you were asking these questions. I don't know. I really. Because I think part of it is like, where's Kamala Harris? Like, who, who are those people still? There's such institutionalists. I mean some of those people are still like Terry McAuliffe people and like Clinton people and Obama people and I don't know behind the scenes, if any, if there's a collective set, like do they all go in a million directions and everyone's cutting deals?

[Mark]

Yeah.

[Dan]

I mean, you know what?

[Sean]

I would just say, the last thing I'd say, Mark, you just mentioned it, but I think geography matters. So if you're new some and you can pull everybody west, it helps you and it screws with their schedule a little. I mean I, I would say get like make them play in a way game to the extent you can.

[Mark]

Maybe, maybe try to move Arizona up.

[Dan]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Mark]

All right. A word from sponsor, two sponsors and then to your question. So again, if you're here on the platform, want to get in, please raise your hand. Another sponsor for us today. Our friends at take lean.com you can get 20% off the entire site. Go to take lean.com promo code is 2WMM. Take lean.com you don't want to use fad diets. Not everybody wants use injectables. People stop emailing me about the injectables. I never said they don't work for anybody. Never said they don't work for anybody. I love hearing from those of you for whom it worked. But they don't work for everybody. Whereas take lean.com avoid weight cycling going up and down. 10 pounds off, 10 pounds on. Developed by doctors, it's an oral supplement. It allows you to maintain healthy blood sugar, control appetite and cravings, help burn fat by converting it to energy. And you're not taking all the risks you may be taking with those injectables. If you want to lose weight in a meaningful way at a healthy pace and keep the way off, try the [e-mail] make it part of your diet and exercise lifestyle. 20% off when you enter to WMM. The number two [e-mail] again, that's the number two [e-mail] thank you for your attention to that matter and one more matter that I'll ask you to pay attention to, which is our friends at poncho poncho outdoors.com/2wmm. Remember that code. Now we're using it 2wmm poncho.ponchooutdoors.com you can go there and use that URL $10 off your first order plus free shipping for stuff that feels soft and broken in from day one. Has just the right amount of stretch. That's why I love the poncho stuff. Just the right amount of stretch doesn't look big on you, but it feels nice and comfortable. It's a good way. Keeps you comfortable all day. It's great in cold weather and wicks to sweat away when it's hot. It's designed for you now. Wrinkle resistant collar, comfortable stretch. Free shipping, free returns, free exchanges. If it doesn't fit right, they want you to be comfortable with what you buy. They stand by every shirt they make it. Right. If it turns out not to be your favorite again, opportunity now to get $10 off your first order. Free shipping. Go to poncho outdoors.com 2w m and with that we go to John, because we were talking about South Carolina. John, welcome in. Thank you for being part of Two Way on Mute. Tell folks where in South Carolina you are and what's on your mind for.

[Dan]

Sean and Dan, what is that behind you?

[John]

Good morning, everyone. I live outside of Columbia, S.C. and.

[Mark]

Did they rebuild the Maurices Piggy park yet or is it still.

[John]

They have. They're back in full operation.

[Mark]

Full operation. All right.

[John]

And I, and I, by the way, I have a good friend of mine, Champ, who runs a barbecue place.

[Mark]

What's it called? That's all right, miss.

[John]

That's all right, Miss Piggy. A restaurant, I think it's called.

[Mark]

Okay, all right.

[John]

So for about a month ago, there's like been three people on the Democratic side who came on and said, listen, there isn't a crime wave. You don't know what's going on in big cities and you don't have your facts straight. Well, I work for the Baltimore Sun. I was the director of operations for the manufacturing of the printing plant in Baltimore. I had hundreds of employees who lived in Baltimore City. And I've worked at many plants across the country. And at no time did I ever have as much grief and sorrow and pain as I experienced in Baltimore because employees were coming to me asking for prayer and comfort because their loved ones have been hospitalized, because they've been beaten, shot, stabbed, put into a coma, crippled, and a handful of murders. And that caused me to look at Baltimore that says, what on earth is going on? Because I've never ever lived in such a city. Or around such a city. And Basically Baltimore has 250 to 300 murders a year. And what people say is, well, years where you're in the low 200s and sometimes you're above 300, they go, look, it's getting better now it's getting a little worse. Well, regardless of that, it's always horrendous. And what we know, because I talk to reporters and editors and police, what we know is Baltimore, one year reported 80% of the murders happen in 25 of the neighborhoods.

[Mark]

John, I need to interrupt you for some breaking news. And then when I, after I tell that I'm going, you'd ask your question. Okay.

[John]

Okay.

[Mark]

Appreciate all that you said just about grants Supreme Court rejects call to overturn its decision legalizing same sex marriage nationwide. There was a belief that the court might take it up and do what they did on abortion. A lot of people in the pro same sex marriage community, both Democrats and Republicans, were very much hoping for this outcome for fear that, that they would be faced with another landmark reversal. John, your question.

[John]

So my question is we know when, we know where these crimes are happening. We know when they're going to happen. Typically on Thursday, Friday, Saturdays, I'm putting the stats up on the screen so anybody that's Democratic can, can say, okay, here are the facts. Now you can refute them if you want to. But my question is it's been 20 or 30 years, Dan. Why isn't Baltimore fixed?

[Dan]

No, I mean, I wouldn't limit that to Baltimore. I mean, this was the insanity of the defense was that either it's not bad or what is bad is just so accepted because these are bad, quote, bad neighborhoods that like, okay, so there's a lot of murders in the bad neighborhood. There have been for 30 years. Doesn't make it acceptable. I could say the same thing about parts of New York and Boston and LA and San Fran and just go on. And by the way, Memphis and St. Louis. And so it should never be acceptable. We should always be striving to drive crime as low or eliminate would be ideal. But the party made a real mistake on that. And, and there's two things to separate. There's the anger at Trump and then there's in local elections, crime is a huge issue. Like here in New York City, the mayorial race, even going back to Eric Adams. Voters want crime brought down. Period. Period.

[John]

Yeah. And I, yeah, because I think that's what's missing in our politics is results. Let's focus on the issue, not the people. And let's get the results because.

[Jack]

This.

[John]

Should not be acceptable in America regardless who the political party's in power. So Baltimore or the Maryland governor, you have an opportunity.

[Mark]

Hold on. Let's. Let's just shine.

[Sean]

And Sean, no, I think like the bigger tragedy in this whole thing and I know it to be the case in D.C. in particular, but I think it's probably the case everywhere is that we start to hide the statistics. So we've decriminalized things, we've let people off, we've told cops not to book it. So you know, we have this big discussion about misinformation and the reality is that we, anyone who walks the streets sees what's going on and then we hide and mask all the real statistics because we don't want it to be as bad as it's supposed to be. And that's the real tragedy of this.

[Mark]

John, thank you. Grateful to you. Thank you so much. All right, let's go to Jack. Jack, welcome in. Tell folks who don't know where you are.

[Sean]

I thought the breaking news that you're going to do is that it is apparently official now that Rob Gronkowski is going to sign a one day contract with the Patriots to officially retire as a New England Patriot.

[Jack]

So.

[Dan]

Oh, interesting.

[Sean]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mark]

Smart.

[Dan]

Christmas came early.

[Mark]

There was a good Grok joke on Saturday Night Live on the weekend update as well. Please back Jack. Speaking of back, Jack is back Jack.

[Sean]

And what you're wearing, Jack.

[Jack]

Oh, I. My wife ordered this when we were up in Maine and couldn't get wait to get back to San Antonio. Best polo I've ever owned.

[Mark]

Tell us why, Jack. Why is it. Why is it the best polo you've ever.

[Jack]

I hate to just repeat everything you always hear every day, but it's soft, it's comfortable. You literally could sleep in it. It's.

[Dan]

Have you.

[Jack]

It's a wonderful shirt.

[Sean]

Yeah, Try it. I'm telling you.

[Mark]

And your wife got you the right size, I see because fits. Fits beautiful.

[Jack]

She sure did.

[Mark]

Yeah. Well thank you for that, Jack. Our friends at Fairway and Green will be happy. And stay tuned for later in the weekend announcement about our another great opportunity for everybody with Fairway and Green. Jack, what's on your mind besides your show?

[Jack]

I have a lot of frustration. Nobody talks too much about on the shutdown with the really the role of the media. They've been anything other than an unbalanced reporter of the facts. For example, from my perspective, I think the Democrats a lot of what they're going after are just perpetuating Temporary fixes that were put in place during COVID Of course, on the GOP side of things, from what I can see, we have never, the GOP has never in the entire time since the President first took office, come up with a cogent policy to replace the aca. And the fact is, I think that the, if you want to call it the antebellum infrastructure before the aca that has disappeared, we're not going to be able to go back to what was there before. We need to, if you don't like it, come up with something different. And I see no. And there should be a simple explanation for the man on the street and nobody is stepping up to accept their responsibility.

[Mark]

I've got a different perspective on your topic than you do. But Sean, you first, then Dan, then I'll go.

[Sean]

I mean, my perspective is that Jack, trite. I mean, we should have a better plan. There needs to be more market driven forces.

[Mark]

Well, no, but what about the question of whether the media coverage was biased of the shutdown?

[Sean]

Oh, it's hor. I mean, it was pathetic, right? I mean, I flipped over this morning, I had the quad chart on my thing and I, there was a reporter on MSNBC and I literally flipped over and Scarborough was talking about how the President was trying to exact the most pain out of Americans as possible. He wanted them to suffer and wanted to take food out of their mouths. And I'm like, that's not exactly.

[Dan]

How about the, that's Joe Starborough.

[Mark]

How about the Washington Post? The New York Times?

[Sean]

Yeah, I think like again, this gets back to. Yeah, the answer is there was unbelievable bias. The bottom line is Democrats couldn't answer the question what were they fighting for? And I, at the end of the day, that was a valid question. Why were they, why did they say what they said in the past about shutdowns and why was this different? And they got let off the hook every time.

[Dan]

Dan, I disagree. I actually think the media actually did say what Democrats are fighting for was the ACA extension. I mean, they it what everyone was fighting for. Either keep, you know, reopen the government and then we'll talk, or no, we won't reopen until you do. Like I thought the media covered. If I turned on Fox, I heard what MAGA thinks. If I turn on msnbc, I hear what Democrats think. But that's cable news. And that's, I think, Jack, where I would just disagree with you, respectfully, is healthcare is not an easy, simple issue. If it were, people would have solved it multiple times. People Forget pre aca. Healthcare was horrible. It was the number one issue in poll after poll after poll for a decade because people hated the healthcare. Now people are becoming frustrated because they tried a fix and the fix needs to be fixed. But the problem is what is the other? Like what is our solution and what is Republican solution? But it is super complicated to just say the free market is going to do it. That's just.

[Sean]

No, no, no. But no, no, I first of all, just to be clear, I don't think the free market can do it. But I do think that market forces are absent in our current system. Like no one, no one has an incentive to actually contain cost to make sure you get. We have horrible delivery and horrible cost. It's not working anyway. And you know, Dan, we've used the phrase in the past about, you know, with, with the tariffs like you know, the arsonist started. We were promised something on health care. It was a government takeover.

[Dan]

This.

[Sean]

We lost our doctors, we lost the ability to have our plans and costs are out of control. That's a fact.

[Dan]

But the government didn't take it over. It actually was Mitt Romney's based plan that was market. I don't care if it driven. But okay, so Mitt Romney's plan or not is.

[Sean]

It doesn't matter. The bottom line is sucks.

[Dan]

Okay, so what's your plan on the.

[Mark]

Question of the media, Jack, that we need? I'll try to say this carefully. The media skewed on this story towards the Democrats as they always do, but far less than any shutdown I've ever covered. I actually think this potentially a watershed. If you look at Reagan and both Bushes felt the media was biased against them and they were right and they complained about it and they occasionally tried to do something about it, but they didn't succeed. This is, this is, this is a manifestation of the success. They have worked the refs effectively. Some in terms of bullying, intimidation, but some on the merits. They convinced a lot of the press. I'm not talking about msnbc. I'm talking about the New York Times and the Washington Post, the Associated Press. They convinced the press that the Democrats were keeping the government from opening back up because they were fighting for policy changes. Now again the Democrats would say wasn't a change, they were trying for an extension. But it's a change because they're to trying supposed to expire. And I've never seen such relatively fair coverage towards the Republicans of the shutdown. Again, on balance, still anti Republican.

[Sean]

But wouldn't you agree that, look, wouldn't you also agree that in the case of every shutdown, the side that's arguing for the government to stay shut, essentially, or are arguing that they want to fight for something always is the losing side. The Democrats face the least amount of pushback that I've ever seen. Now, granted, Republicans are generally on the flip side of this, but the idea that they didn't face serious consequences, I.

[Mark]

Thought they faced much more serious pushback than I would have expected. And it would have happened pre Trump, pre Trump, it would have all been about health care and Donald Trump's meanness. And I saw many interviews on cable, many framings in the Washington Post, New York Times. Democrats are the ones trying I was.

[Dan]

Just going to say you could not go on CNN or MSNBC during the day and not be asked. But you guys are the one who shut the government down. And that was consistent because it's true. Yes.

[Mark]

Yeah. Well, that wouldn't have happened, but wouldn't have happened if it weren't for the president and Caroline and other people just being relentless, not just on this story, but for the last, for the last 11 months. And I think, I don't know that it will continue like this, but it's a big change. It's a fundamental change. And so, Jack, I think, I think you're right that it was not fair, but it was a lot better than it normally is in terms of, in terms of balance and reporting.

[Jack]

I thought, Jack, one last little thing. I lived in England during the much of the 80s and I got to see firsthand their national health system. There are so many horrendous aspects to that type of healthcare. And of course, in the United States, what this comes down to, we've tragically lost any semblance of compromise because when I hear words like death panels and some of this bombast, you can never arrive at a reasonable solution with those kind of effects, extremes.

[Mark]

That's true. Jack, thank you. Grateful to you for being part of two way. Let's see conscious of the time. Let me ask you guys one more question, then we'll talk about what's, what we've got coming up is is the some people have said to me, yeah, there's lots of drama over the last 40 days and today over the shutdown, but that it's not going to be an issue going forward. It's not something else is going to replace it, maybe come back in January, but between now and January, it's gone away. Sean, will this, will we be talking about the fallout of the shutdown by the middle end of this week or not.

[Sean]

I think the House isn't going to vote till Wednesday, Thursday. So we'll still talk about it but I think as we go into this weekend, I think it will be moved on to something else and if not by then definitely by the beginning of next week.

[Mark]

Dan, what's the over under for House Democrats voting? Yes.

[Sean]

That's the key I wanted I was so glad you brought that up.

[Dan]

15, maybe 10.

[Mark]

I don't think it'll get that high. I think it'll be fewer than 10. Maybe I'm wrong.

[Dan]

But I think though the issue is this will move on. But remember January 30th we could be right back at this with primary season starting and on both parties and on.

[Mark]

The eve of the State of the Union too.

[Sean]

By the way, my over under is five.

[Mark]

I, I think minus two five. Yeah.

[Sean]

I mean I don't think Democrats are.

[Mark]

Going to, I don't think they are. Sean, what do you have coming up?

[Sean]

Well, election fallout is what I'm still talking about. Scott Pressler was out there registering folks to vote. He has a lot to say on on what went wrong on election day and so we're going to break it all down.

[Mark]

Damn.

[Dan]

Going to enjoy my Monday.

[Mark]

I am, I'm fresh off the Amtrak and because my flight was canceled. So I know yeah there's lots of other victims of the shutdown but I consider myself now to be in that group of people who have been ill served. But I had great wi fi on the train and I'm here in Washington where I'll be hosting two way tonight later this evening, 6 o' clock eastern time with my guest, former Ohio Governor John Kasich. Join us at 6 o' clock to talk to him about the events of the day. See what he thinks of the shutdown resolution. And earlier at noon, Citizen McCain my colleague Megan will join SE cup will join Megan at noon. Please join them for a conversation about pretty much everything including what they think of the shutdown. And Megan was quite active on social media on X over the weekend. If you want to get ready for Megan's little clues about Megan's perspective, I urge you to watch there. As always, if you want to be a sponsor of this program you can be send us an email at sponsors at two way tv. We we work with our sponsors closely to make sure they get what they their metrics of success are. So if you want to join us and be a sponsor of this program or any other show on two way, please send an email to Sponsors tv. And next year we'll be doing another round to raise money. If you'd like to be an investor in this company at a pretty high level, I won't say the number here, but if you want to invest a lot, if you're interested in learning more about two way, send us an email at investway tv. Again, investooway tv. Please don't be hurt or sad or annoyed if we don't get right back to you. We're just collecting names for now and we'll be back in touch as we get closer to the series B coming up next year. Thank you for watching. Two of us will be back. Three of us will be back here next 23 hours from now. Dan, Sean and I to take you through the day and hopefully a little more on the Shaheens because I think there'll be more folks in New Hampshire. Now is trying to figure out what all this means for the future of not just 2026 but 2028. Can the state whose two senators pissed off the base still retain their first in the nation sanctioned status? Don't need to tell me you New Hampshire. Yes. You'll be first.

[Sean]

I gotta wait to the Virginia caucus is going to be interesting between Warner and Kane.

[Mark]

Absolutely. Thank you for watching. We'll see everybody. I'll see you at 6. Good day.

[Dan]

See y.