Iran Vows To Strike Back After Trump's Weekend Attacks: Trumps Threatens "Back to the Battlefront"

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Morning Meeting — May 26, 2026

Episode: "Iran Vows To Strike Back After Trump's Weekend Attacks"

Host: Mark Halperin
Co-hosts: Kevin Walling, Larry O’Connor
Theme:
Today’s episode reviews the ongoing and escalating U.S.-Iran tensions after President Trump’s recent military actions, explores American political maneuvering around these events, dives into key primary races, and touches on broader issues shaping the news agenda.

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Episode Overview

The core focus of the episode is the rapidly deteriorating situation between the U.S. and Iran after a weekend of mixed signals, military strikes, and failed diplomatic overtures. The panel dissects the lack of progress toward a new nuclear deal, the domestic and geopolitical pressures facing President Trump, how different U.S. political actors may react, and potential consequences for the midterms. Also covered: a look at the Texas primaries, the viability of Thomas Massie as a presidential aspirant, Josh Shapiro’s prospects as a Democratic nominee, and timely listener questions on antisemitism and American politics.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Iran Crisis: Deal or No Deal?

• Confusion post-weekend: Trump’s mixed messaging on a nuclear deal with Iran—swinging between “done,” “close to done,” and “maybe”—has left allies and adversaries confused.

  “After a weekend the President spent outing the deal between Iran and the United States, first as done, and then as close to done, and then maybe being done. Now things are up in the air.” — Mark Halperin (08:01)

• Iran’s Stance: Iran appears unwilling to open crucial shipping lanes, surrender nuclear material, or agree to broader accords.
• Escalation: Ongoing “kinetic action,” including U.S. strikes on boats laying mines and drones being shot down ([08:01–09:00]).
• Pressures on Trump:
  • Trump faces political constraints—limited ability to offer sanctions relief or make a ‘soft’ deal due to hardliners in Congress.
  • Criticism from Senate Armed Services leaders and high-profile Republicans ([12:06]).
• Deal Prospects: The panel overwhelmingly doubts any deal is imminent.

  “He cannot. He absolutely cannot [give sanctions relief].” — Larry O’Connor ([12:05])
  “Iran’s not agreeing to any of that. They’re not agreeing to open the strait. … They’re agreeing to collect poles.” — Mark Halperin ([12:22])

• Consequences of No Deal:
  • Bombing Resumes? Disagreement on whether Trump will renew attacks if talks collapse.
  • Mark Halperin: “He will not do it.”—[14:43]
  • Larry O’Connor: “I think he still can. … The bombing will resume.”—[15:17]
  • Regional blowback: U.S. Gulf allies warn Trump that strikes could imperil their own infrastructure ([15:06]).

Notable Quote

“I’m on the precipice of using profanity throughout this episode because I find the situation to be completely effed up.” — Mark Halperin ([12:22])

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2. The Domestic Lens: Policymaking, Midterms, & Perception

• Election Calculus: Both Iran and the U.S. are factoring in U.S. midterm election timing. Iran displaying patience, believing election pressure could force U.S. concessions ([13:07]).
• Public Confusion:
  • A featured soundbite from Joe Kernan [18:36], channeling ordinary Americans’ confusion and fatigue:

“The minute I start feeling like one of those Republicans more hawkish, it’s like, finish this… I don’t know how to feel about it. I just—you know, they’ve been a thorn on our side for so long…”

• Media & Market Reactions:
  • Ongoing cycles of hope then disappointment over Iran rumors—stock market reflects this volatility ([17:39], [18:04]).

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3. President Trump’s Health Speculation

• Multiple Walter Reed Trips:
  • Panel notes the unusual frequency and speculation on reasons (age, hands, legs, dental work).
  • Calls for more openness and better medical briefings for the public.

    “He’s 80 years old. He falls asleep in public. He’s got something going on with his legs. … Let’s just find out what it’s all about.” — Mark Halperin ([25:51])

• Political Toll: Discussion of how these rumors compare to prior presidents and the political reality of an aging leader.

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4. Texas Republican Primary & Cornyn vs. Paxton

• Big Day in Texas: Senate runoff between John Cornyn and Ken Paxton, other important House runoffs.
• Cornyn’s Fox & Friends Pitch:
  • Defends his record, denounces Paxton as dishonest ([26:51])
  • Panel skepticism: Both Kevin and Larry say if Cornyn wins, it would be “shocking” ([28:09]), and doubt Cornyn would endorse Paxton if he loses.

Notable Quote

“He’s running against a total slime ball.” — Kevin Walling on Paxton ([28:36])

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5. The Thomas Massie “Presidential” Rumor

• Filing for 2028: Massie moves to keep his campaign apparatus alive, possibly as a money-raising operation not a serious campaign ([33:20–34:39]).
• Panel Verdict: No one takes Massie as a real presidential contender.

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6. Josh Shapiro: Democratic Rising Star—or Not?

• Is Shapiro Underestimated?
  • Mark argues Shapiro isn’t on insiders’ radar despite being “maybe the most likely next President of the United States.” ([36:54])
  • Kevin pushes back: pro-Israel, center-left Dems are discussing him; lack of wider buzz may be a function of timing or party divisions.
• Strengths & Weaknesses:
  • Strong retail politics, connects with voters, skilled, backed by national Democratic leaders.
  • Weaknesses: possible bias against a Jewish candidate, ties to Israel, perceived “polished” nature, and dealing with local controversies.
• Electoral Math: Shapiro may have a centrist coalition (echoing Bill Clinton) but faces “anti-Israel,” “defund the police,” teachers’ union, and environmentalist resistance in a divided primary ([42:33]).

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7. Audience Q&A Highlights

On Allegations of Antisemitism and “Israel Lobby” Discourse

• Blake Dodd (Caller, Huntsville, AL, 47:04–52:16) raises whether criticism of pro-Israel influence unfairly gets labeled antisemitic, specifically referencing Thomas Massie.
  • Larry: “When you say…‘I tried to call him, but he was in Tel Aviv,’ it suggests…he is an agent of a foreign country and specifically an agent of…the only country on the planet…that has identified…a Jewish state.” ([49:27])
  • Kevin emphasizes the distinction between American support for Israel and foreign interference, but agrees some rhetoric “traffics in” antisemitism ([51:09]).
  • Mark: Cautions against weaponized accusations—“prefer to air on the side of not accusing people…without full documentation.” ([52:16])

On Whether a Deal with Iran Is Possible

• Dave (Caller, Virginia Beach, 52:49–56:34):
  • “It kind of seems there’s no way a deal can happen… I think there’s hard lines that the President has had for a very long time, and I think he’s willing to lose the midterms over it, to be honest.”
  • Panel response: President doesn’t want to lose the midterms, but isn’t prioritizing party politics over national interest at this moment; feels he has “more breathing room” due to redistricting and Senate maps ([56:30]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the confusion and fatigue around Iran:

  “He speaks for tens of millions… He doesn’t know what the hell’s going on, and he’s paid to understand it.” — Mark Halperin, about Joe Kernan’s remarks ([20:30])

• On pundit-candidate speculation:

  “Ladies and gentlemen, I remind you of the boom lift for Spencer Cox, the governor of Utah, who could not – Kevin has a better chance of winning the Republican nomination than Spencer Cox.” — Mark Halperin ([32:16])

• On Shapiro’s electoral coalition:

  “Where’s his constituency in the Democrat Party…Who is his base?” — Larry O’Connor ([42:33])

• On pet peeves and show philosophy:

  “Number one, I hate the phrase pet peeve.” — Mark Halperin

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Important Segment Timestamps

• 00:41 – 04:50: Opening banter, day’s agenda, press pool details, NASA event, policy rundown
• 08:01 – 17:00: Deep-dive on Iran crisis, White House calculations, kinetic exchanges, deadlocked negotiations
• 17:49 – 18:14: Stock market reactions to Iran deal rumors
• 18:36 – 21:38: “Average American” perspective clip – Joe Kernan
• 22:12 – 25:51: Discussion of Trump’s health, media speculation, demand for transparency
• 26:32 – 29:48: Texas GOP Senate runoff—Cornyn vs. Paxton dynamics
• 33:20 – 36:14: Dismissal of Thomas Massie as a 2028 candidate; political money machinery
• 36:53 – 43:18: Josh Shapiro’s strengths, campaign prospects, possible barriers
• 47:04 – 52:16: Audience Q&A: anti-Israel rhetoric vs. antisemitism
• 53:04 – 56:34: Audience Q&A: the feasibility of an Iran deal, Trump’s priorities
• 57:43 – End: Light banter, listener feedback, closing notes

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Tone & Atmosphere

• Candid, irreverent, and unscripted: The hosts allow for real-time disagreement, sardonic humor, and occasionally profane exasperation, particularly around the intractability and absurdity of DC politics.
• Insightful but accessible: Blending insider knowledge with the everyday frustrations and confusions shared by listeners.
• Balanced dialogue: Willing to challenge each other’s premises, field probing listener questions, and acknowledge the messy grey areas in politics.

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In Sum

This Morning Meeting episode sketches an anxious, uncertain Washington grappling with the fallout of Trump’s Iran gambit, the intransigence of both sides, and the high stakes looming over the next political cycle. While military and diplomatic options appear exhausted, both American and Iranian leaders are framed as boxed in by domestic pressures and the relentless 24/7 media environment. Supplemental conversations about health, electoral strategy, and the boundaries of political argument round out a brisk, lively, and realistic snapshot of the day’s news.

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For listeners who missed the episode, this summary distills the crucial debates, the atmospherics of anxiety and skepticism, and the moments where the fog of war meets the fog of politics.

Transcript

[Mark Halperin]

Foreign. Welcome in. This is the morning meeting. Kevin, Larry and I are here and we're glad to see you and we're going to walk you through the day and the week and everything else you might need. Thank you for being part of the two way experience. Raise your hand if you're here on the platform and also don't put smack in the chat. Simple as that. Gentlemen, welcome back. Four day week. Are you ready? One of the three of us is in extreme pain. See if you can guess who it is. Put it in the chat. Which one of us is an extreme pain? And I don't mean the mental pain that Kevin's always under because he lives

[Kevin Walling]

in South Carolina as a Democrat. Just in general.

[Mark Halperin]

Exactly. I mean physical pain. So to the daybook and then to to our conversation. Iran remains the big focus. Congress is still on work, work relief, work study, whatever work release. Yeah, they're not around. The President's around and his schedule is filled with closed press events and a trip to Walter Reed. Moments ago he left for Walter Reed for his physical. We'll talk about what's up with the President and his mental and physical health. He. And then when he gets back from Walter Reed he's, he's greeting service members and then having his physical. Then he comes back at around 1:30, has a policy meeting. 2:30, policy meeting, 5:30, you guessed it, policy meeting. Then he's having one of his Rose Garden club dinners tonight. I don't know who's coming to dinner. It's not me. And look at the White House pool

[Kevin Walling]

or Spencer Tracy for that matter.

[Mark Halperin]

Spencer Tracy, exactly. Look at the White House pool. Run of the mill, NBC, Oan we've become a nerd to them. Ap, afp, New York Times, Reuters, Getty, Washington Times. These are all brand names. Afp, Fox. And at the very bottom of the new of the in town pool list the new media is ntd. Kevin and Larry both know what NTD is but I didn't. Here's their website currently look at the range of stories being covered by ntt. US military carries out self defense strikes, official lift, evacu, evacuation orders for some California residents, how Americans can support wounded veterans. All very standard stories. Larry, what is ntd?

[Larry O'Connor]

Well they are a Chinese based media company although I don't believe they are connected to the CCP or the China guy. Quite the opposite.

[Mark Halperin]

Are they Chicoms or anti Chicom?

[Larry O'Connor]

I believe they are anti Chicoms but honestly you know. Yeah.

[Kevin Walling]

New Tang Dynasty television.

[Larry O'Connor]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mark Halperin]

Anyway New Tang Dynasty television. They've got a Website. They've got video, they've got it all. And today they'll be. They're currently. Their representative is at Walter Reed, presumably two o'. Clock. The Vice President hosts some state attorneys general for roundtable on his anti fraud initiative along with the FTC chair Andrew Ferguson. According to news reports, they invited a bunch of Democrats on Friday and the Democratic ags wrote a letter saying, well, we'd like to come, but invite us earlier next time. And so it's just Republicans. Marco Rubio is going from India to.

[Kevin Walling]

You get bonus points for knowing the plural of attorneys general. Right there.

[Mark Halperin]

Attorneys general.

[Larry O'Connor]

There you go.

[Mark Halperin]

The, there's the headline from the Politico curtain raising the meeting. You know, when they started, they were called up, they dropped it.

[Larry O'Connor]

When you interview an attorney general, do you refer to them as General General?

[Mark Halperin]

Always.

[Kevin Walling]

You gotta call them General General.

[Mark Halperin]

I even do it with the deputies, the deputy attorneys general.

[Kevin Walling]

How about lieutenant governors? You call him Governor Governor, always.

[Mark Halperin]

Yep.

[Kevin Walling]

Okay.

[Mark Halperin]

What do you call Mitt Romney? Governor or Senator?

[Larry O'Connor]

That's a point of personal preference. I think some like.

[Kevin Walling]

He actually prefers Go.

[Larry O'Connor]

He actually prefers most, Most Republicans prefer governor.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah, well, most, most people who've had both jobs prefer governor. And I always, I always say to them, because they love this, we're going to talk about Governor Shapiro later in the show. I would say I'm gonna, I'm gonna call you Governor because I know it's a much better job. And they all laugh knowingly because it is a much better job. And they all think so. It's a primary runoff day in Texas. Big focus will be on the Senate runoff on the Republican side, Cornyn and Paxton. Although there are a number of House runoffs amongst Democrats that are getting a lot of attention, particularly on the question of whether Democrats are going to have the good sense to nominate electable candidates. Polls open at 8 Eastern. So they've already opened. They're open till 8 Eastern PM tonight.

[Kevin Walling]

It's a very nice way of putting it as Larry doubles over in laughter.

[Larry O'Connor]

I was just reflecting on the fact that James Talarico was the electable one.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah, he was.

[Larry O'Connor]

He was.

[Kevin Walling]

Yeah.

[Mark Halperin]

The NASA administrators holding a press conference at 2pm to discuss plans for a sustained presence on the moon. Larry, what is the moon made out of?

[Larry O'Connor]

Well, everybody knows it's made out of barbecue ribs.

[Mark Halperin]

Barbecue ribs. Kevin, what about you? What do you think?

[Kevin Walling]

Cheese. Of course it's made out of cheese. And I don't think we actually even went there, so I can't, I can't tell you if it's made out of cheese or not.

[Larry O'Connor]

Jay Simpson did though. Yeah.

[Kevin Walling]

But I'll tell you, the NASA administrator, Administrator Isaacson is having the best time of his life. He is everywhere. He's with Elon, he's in jump shoots, he's flying on planes. He is he loving this job.

[Mark Halperin]

He wanted the job and he's a rare official. He was nominated and then it got pulled down and then he got came

[Kevin Walling]

in for a little bit and then. Yeah, but he's, he's everywhere. God love him. Yeah. And it seems like he's having the best time in the NASA's kicking butt.

[Larry O'Connor]

And the president loves his ears.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah, he does. Good call. All right, quick word from a sponsor, then we'll run through some topics. Here we go. Cozy Earth right now. 30% off everything on the site. Ladies and gentlemen, it has come to my attention that not all of you have bought something from cozy earth. And I find that troubling and disappointing and a little surprising, honestly. Every day I tell you to buy something and some of you just think, now I know you all wear clothes. I know you all have bedding. I know you all like to be casual and yet comfortable and yet also look presentable. And yet, and yet to this day, I can tell from the look in some of your eyes you've yet to buy something from cozy earth. Chad won't even meet my my gaze right now. Chad's looking off camera because maybe because he's driving but also because he's a little embarrassed he's not bought anything from cozy earth right now. Great opportunity. Go to cozier.com, use the promo code morning and save 30% off everything on the site. They're still having their sale through the end of the week. You can buy the jogger set Viscous. Made from bamboo, they're lightweight, breathable, very comfortable. Wear it around the house. Wear wherever and whenever you want to be comfortable. Buy the sleepwear, bedding, bubble cuddle, blanket, anything you want. 100 night sleep trial and 10 year warranty tells you all you need to know about the quality. Go to cozyearth.com use my promo code morning for 30% off. If you see the post purchase survey, tell them Kevin and Larry sent you. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, I'm Heath Pierce, former

[Heath Pearce]

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[Mark Halperin]

all right, On Iran On Iran, I have to do this as always, John McLaughlin style. After a weekend the President spent outing the deal between Iran and the United States, first as done, and then as close to done, and then maybe being done. Now things are up in the air. Here's one of the President's many true social posts over the weekend. You can see once again saying, don't worry, the dust is coming out. No dust, no dough or whatever it is they say. And here's what I'd say. Item Iran seems not interested in leaving this straight open without taking some sort of environmental toll or whatever they're going to call it. Item Iran doesn't seem interested in turning over its nuclear material. Item Iran and the United States engaged in kinetic action back and forth in the last 24 hours as the US accused Iran of laying mines. Items There was just a drone shot down, apparently not that long ago. Item the President decided to try to dress up the deal by asking Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states to join the Abraham Accords. And they have basically said, of course not. Item the Iranians insist that any final deal include peace between Hezbollah and Israel, to which Bibi says fu Item the President has no room on the right to make a soft deal because he faced criticism from the likes of Ted Cruz and the chairman of the Armed Services Senate Armed Services Committee. Larry yes, there's. There's no deal happening, is there?

[Larry O'Connor]

Sure doesn't seem like it, does it? No, not to me.

[Kevin Walling]

It seems like they're farther apart even than from before.

[Mark Halperin]

You know what? What are the Iranians? What are the. What are the Iranians doing In Qatar. Are they there just dicking around or are they there to make a deal? That's the only thing I see that's transpired since the President assured us there was a deal. That suggests maybe there'll be a deal.

[Larry O'Connor]

I think Iran is playing the wait and see game or trying to, trying to play this out, playing, you know, four corners, offense, whatever you want to stupid cliche in D.C. that you want to use to try to play this out. So the political pressure makes Donald Trump accept a deal that he. That would be contrary to every single item that he has laid out that he said a deal must contain. I think that's what they're doing and I don't think that there's any interest on that side to make a deal at this point. And I know a lot of my colleagues are happy about that because they want the bombing to resume. They don't think that there's a possibility for a deal. So they want to the regime to be obliterated and the President is trying to find something in between.

[Mark Halperin]

Let's put Kevin Walling on the witness stand. Kevin, I'm the prosecuting attorney, you're the witness. Do you find for sell the truth, the whole truth, not you got. Here we go. Here we go. Is the President open to beginning new military action or is it now clear that he's not? Is he open to more military action?

[Kevin Walling]

Yes. 100.

[Mark Halperin]

Yep.

[Kevin Walling]

And we saw some limited strikes, as you point out, sunk two boats that were trying to lay some mines, that kind of stuff.

[Mark Halperin]

Okay, will the Iranians give up their nuclear material? Under the current negotiating posture, they may

[Kevin Walling]

give up the dust but not agree to the enrichment, which is what the contours of the deal have said.

[Mark Halperin]

Okay, let's say they wanted to give up the so called dust. Where is the dust, Kevin, where's the dust?

[Kevin Walling]

Seemingly underground in rubble. All 900 pounds of it.

[Mark Halperin]

So I mean, how long would it take? Let's say right now the Iranians in good faith said, yeah, we're giving it up. How long would it take to get it out of there?

[Kevin Walling]

Quite a long time. I've got to imagine excavation, building, building at some kind of airstrip to get it out, that kind of thing.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah. So in that intervening time, the witness will answer the question. In that intervening time, will the leading.

[Kevin Walling]

Leading will.

[Mark Halperin]

I'll allow it. I'll give you some leeway here. I want to, I want to understand where you're going. Would, in that time, would the President give Iran a dollar of sanctions relief?

[Kevin Walling]

I mean that's the question. Right. They want it. They want the release in advance of any kind of deal.

[Mark Halperin]

Exactly. I'm asking the questions here. No, yeah. I mean, it just, that's right. It just seems Larry, he can't. He cannot.

[Larry O'Connor]

He absolutely cannot.

[Kevin Walling]

So, I mean, I mean, and, and, and Larry, and Mark, you point out, you know, obviously Ted Cruz, Lindsey Graham, but Roger Wicker has been, you know, barely, barely supportive of the administration, obviously the Armed service chairman, Republican in the Senate. And to see him come out so strongly was, was notable.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah. I'm on the precipice of using profanity throughout this episode because I find the situation to be completely effed up because, because Iran, the president, has two bottom lines. Open the strait and give us, Stop your nuclear program and give us the dust. Iran's not agreeing to any of that. They're not agreeing to open the strait. They're agreeing to collect poles.

[Kevin Walling]

They're really not.

[Larry O'Connor]

They're agreeing to open the strait, but only if they get all their sanctions relief and money and payouts, which is not going to happen.

[Mark Halperin]

Well, well, and, and collect. And collect an environmental thing. Yeah. And Marco Rubio, the Secretary of State and national Security Advisor, has made it clear that that's not happening. Right. So, I mean, and lastly, Kevin, and then I'll dismiss you and I'll call my next witness. Do the Iranians know when the midterm elections are? Kevin?

[Kevin Walling]

Sure. Of course they do. Of course they, and again, if they think, you know, they're going to do something 60 days out from the election, you know, and, and because again, we operate on a timetable and they don't operate to Larry's point, on a timetable, and they're happy to just continue for their, their people to just live in absolute squalor with no running water, no clean water. They don't give a shit about any of that stuff. So they're operating on our timeline and they know what's coming in terms of

[Mark Halperin]

the timeline, electoral timelines, and I will say again, I will say again, if it is true, as Larry has said, and Larry's correct, if it is true that the President can't give them any relief until they move towards handing stuff

[Larry O'Connor]

over or actually hand over, well, okay,

[Mark Halperin]

let's say actually handover. See, I don't even think, and I'm sure I said this a hundred times last week, but I still think it's undercovered. I don't even think they can say they're going to do it for domestic consumption. I don't think they can utter the words, we're signing a deal where we'll end our nuclear program, we'll hand over the dust. I don't even think they can do that. They can't say it. So if they can't say it, how can the president sign a deal with them? So if there's no deal, finally, as we close on Iran, but happy to take community questions, of course, about it, Larry, let's say it falls apart. Let's say in the next whatever it's announced, okay, you know, no agreement because Iran was being unreasonable. Then what happens? Everybody on this show for the last three months says, and my other show says, what happens then is they start the bombing back up. But I got to tell you, I disagree with you. I don't think the president wants to do it. I don't think he will do it. Not that he won't.

[Larry O'Connor]

Doesn't want two different things.

[Mark Halperin]

Yes, that's, I'm revising, extending. He will not do it. He will not.

[Kevin Walling]

You are very legally.

[Mark Halperin]

Exactly. I'll tell you why he won't do it, but because the other countries have said to him, the countries he's trying to trick into joining the Abraham Accords, they've said if you bomb Iran, if you bomb Iran, pressure, pressure they'll destroy, they'll destroy our desalination plants, they'll destroy the Ritz Carlton and Doha.

[Kevin Walling]

So they'll target our nuclear power plant.

[Mark Halperin]

Correct.

[Kevin Walling]

The uae.

[Mark Halperin]

Correct. So, LARRY, he can't do it. Not that he doesn't. Not that he wants to or doesn't want to. He can't. So if the deal falls apart, then what?

[Larry O'Connor]

LARRY Well, I think he still can. But, but what happens if the deal falls apart? The bombing will resume because I think he can do it. And it'll piss off some of the Arab neighbors, but ultimately they'll be on board with it because they don't really have a choice.

[Mark Halperin]

And what would that doom Republicans in the midterms?

[Larry O'Connor]

I don't know. I don't know. I really depends on how, how effective it is, how quickly it occurs and what casualties, God forbid, we have. Can I add one more thing that's effed up as we're talking about? What's effed up?

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah, please.

[Larry O'Connor]

If you, if you have a title like senator or congressman or maybe a title like former secretary of State, maybe you shouldn't take the social media and begin it with if what I'm hearing is true, and pump the brakes a little bit.

[Mark Halperin]

Amen.

[Larry O'Connor]

Go frickin.

[Mark Halperin]

Larry, why do you think, why do you think they did that, Larry?

[Larry O'Connor]

I don't know, but it just drives me insane. And these are people I respect usually,

[Mark Halperin]

but God, it's just, it really was surprising. And then, and then they got in Twitter wars with Trump operatives, with, with

[Larry O'Connor]

people who work in the White House.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah, well, not even people. Not just people working the White House. Jack.

[Larry O'Connor]

Jack.

[Mark Halperin]

And Ted Cruz's.

[Larry O'Connor]

Oh yeah, Jack.

[Mark Halperin]

Is that who it was? Who was it?

[Larry O'Connor]

Posobic. I didn't see.

[Mark Halperin]

No, it wasn't Jack. So big. It was.

[Kevin Walling]

What's his name, man, I saw Stephen Chunk.

[Mark Halperin]

Somebody tell me somebody look it up. Who was it? Who's the guy? I'm just blanking on his name. Who's the guy who fought with Ted Cruz where Ted Cruz tweeted back at him and said, leave this to the grown ups. I forget what it said. Anyway, somebody will find it. Alex, right?

[Larry O'Connor]

Alex, Alex, Alex.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, that's on Iran, ladies and gentlemen. You guys. Anything else you guys want to say about Iran?

[Kevin Walling]

No, it, it again, but you know, support obviously the military taking these defensive, these defensive actions. And again you're seeing these patrol boats just lining the straight still take them out.

[Mark Halperin]

By the way.

[Kevin Walling]

They should be doing so yesterday really

[Larry O'Connor]

fast respond to the chat because everyone's like, well, Larry, you speculate, you give your announcer. I said, if you're a senator, if you're a former secretary of state, I'm, I'm an idiot radio guy. It's not my fault. You trust what I said.

[Mark Halperin]

Larry's. Larry's paid to go on social media and say irresponsible things.

[Larry O'Connor]

Exactly.

[Mark Halperin]

But he's.

[Kevin Walling]

You.

[Mark Halperin]

But he's. Exactly.

[Kevin Walling]

And you're no. And you're no idiot. You are likable. Likable and knowledgeable enough.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah. Stock market's poised to open higher, ladies and gentlemen. The markets don't seem to watch the program because they seem to think there's going to be a deal. We'll see. All right, the president.

[Kevin Walling]

But Mark, how many times do you think. And it's not crying wolf, but how many times can the market react this way and Larry too, where it's some hope of a deal and then it never has not come through the last couple of times that they've teased it apparently much longer.

[Mark Halperin]

I'm watching Ms. Now right now. Andrew Ross Sorkin is on and the lower third says futures rise on hope for possible US Iran deal.

[Kevin Walling]

Extraordinary.

[Larry O'Connor]

As long as the fundamentals of the economy stay.

[Mark Halperin]

Exactly. Well, as long as AI continues to fuel it all all right, you know what? I forgot to play something. I wanted to play. Damn. Before we move on. My apologies. I. I just. I'm out of practice. I want to interview an American citizen and hear what they think. Just a normal American citizen. And say, sir, this is going to be, uh, 106.

[Joe Kernan]

Sir.

[Mark Halperin]

Sir, what do you make of the current in confusion about what's going on in Iran? You, sir, Joe, I think your name is.

[Joe Kernan]

The minute I start feeling like one of those Republicans more hawkish, it's like, finish this. You went this far through, you know, the 60 day concession to talk about the nuclear. Then I immediately think, oh, my God, I'm a neocon, and I'm ready to just jump in and just immediately. So I don't know how to feel about it. I just, you know, they've been a thorn on our side for so long, and they're so annoying, the way they pretend to come to the table and then talk tough. And then we don't know whether there are factions over there that realize midterms are coming up and want to wait and talk about, you know.

[Mark Halperin]

You don't think they realize that?

[Larry O'Connor]

Of course they don't realize that.

[Joe Kernan]

I said they do. We know that they're over there playing us and playing the whole thing. But then there may be much more moderate, perhaps reasonable people that we don't even know about that we are negotiating with that are saying, you can have this stuff and you can destroy it at this. If you listen to the hardliners, they aren't even discussing giving us the 900.

[Mark Halperin]

No.

[Joe Kernan]

In fact, they're saying lifting sanctions, war reparations, you know, all these things that were. If we're even talking about getting to that point and then taking 60 days to decide to get a final answer on the nuclear material. That just seems like we're giving them way too much. But then again, like I say, I don't want to act like a warmonger that, you know from neocon, that all he wants to do is.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah, this young man, I'm told his name is Joe Kernan, if my notes are correct, or.

[Kevin Walling]

Joe, you said it right. They are annoying.

[Mark Halperin]

He speaks for tens of millions, Joe Kernan. He doesn't know what the hell's going on, and he's paid to understand it. And I meant to play that earlier. Yeah, go ahead, Larry.

[Larry O'Connor]

Mark, I just. I feel like, you know, the. There is pressure. This. I keep remarking on the fact that I don't think we've ever had a situation where we try to Wage a war and, or negotiate a peace in this real time environment with social media. And it's like, well, what's happened in the last 24 hours? Why hasn't it finished yet? And there are these pressures. You got the pressures of the neocons who want to just continue blowing everything into oblivion. And I keep asking my friends, like, and we know who they are, you know, what then? What's next? Who, who builds what's left of that? And how do we, you know, because you have to do something, right? You're the guys who love that. You break it, you bought it doctrine, the, the Crate and Barrel doctrine or whatever. And I still don't get a good answer to that, number one. Number two, the other. But, but the other two pressures on this right now are, is the economy or price of gas really? Because the other parts of the economy don't seem affected. And the midterms, if, if, if we can get to a place where you didn't worry about the price of gas and you didn't worry about midterms, would there really be this, you know, rush to do something right now instead of just waiting out a blockade? Blockades are supposed to take time.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah, well, you're right. But, but you can't, you can't just kiss those two variables off, obviously.

[Larry O'Connor]

But, but when you're waging war, I think you, you can't do it on a political.

[Kevin Walling]

Sounds like, sounds like Larry's making the case for canceling elections. I don't know about that. You know, If we just didn't have this pesky midterm thing, you know, we can wait him out.

[Mark Halperin]

Larry's making the case for Speaker Jeffries. Speaker Jeffries is. If the price of liberty is a. Speaker Jeffries. Larry will welcome Speaker Jeffries.

[Larry O'Connor]

Larry is doing all right.

[Mark Halperin]

I'm just summarizing anyway. Later today we'll maybe get a readout of the President's health. Here's how the Washington post curtain raised 108. The trip to Andrew, to Andrews, to Walter Reed. President's about to be 80. The left thinks he's lost his mind and his hands are exploding and his legs are broken. Here's the Washington Post headline. His new Iran deal faces. Oh, Trump faces health questions ahead of another Walter Reed trip. The President Trump claims that he is in excellent health, but independent physicians say the White House answered key questions ahead of the third visit in 13 months. Obviously, the President's answered more questions about his health than Joe Biden did. Obviously, though that doesn't remove the need to Understand. What's up with an 80 year old president, Kevin? Why is he going to Walter Reed again?

[Kevin Walling]

I'm just going to see myself out after four years of death, I think Joe Biden on cable television and we

[Mark Halperin]

can forget Joe Biden. Forget Joe Biden's president's 80. He just was at Walter Reed. They claim he's just going again three

[Kevin Walling]

times in a year. In just a year or so.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah, yeah. So why is he going to Walter Reed?

[Kevin Walling]

But, but interesting, you look at, you look at the polling numbers because they see him everywhere. And the man, I mean, the man is a machine and doesn't sleep at all. So he's not dogged with the same kind of, you know, issues, even when he falls asleep sometimes and in midday events. And we, you know, I think that's beyond debatable. But he hasn't faced the same scrutiny that, that Joe Biden has in terms of the health issues. I assume we'll know more coming out of it today.

[Mark Halperin]

What's your guess about why he's going? Is it his legs, is it his hands, is it his teeth? He's gone to dentist.

[Kevin Walling]

The teeth is an interesting thing. And he's gone to the dentist a few times in Palm beach and then today, too. And that's interesting that they tag that on that it's not just a physical, but it's also the dental element. I don't remember that happening with any other present where they highlight the dental element of it so ever, ever.

[Mark Halperin]

And maybe that's, maybe that's a red herring. Maybe that's meant to throw us off. Larry, why do you think the President's going back to Walter Reed?

[Larry O'Connor]

He's about to turn 80.

[Mark Halperin]

Well, I know, but I mean, do you think there's a, do you think they're, they're examining an issue or do you think I would, they're just, I

[Larry O'Connor]

remember when my dad turned 80, we made sure he got a full workup. I think he's going to get a full workup. And I. Okay, I got to tell you, I'm pretty plugged in on the news, you guys, and you got to go, where do you get all this about the exploding hands and the, and the teeth?

[Kevin Walling]

Well, you see it, you see the discolor, the discoloration and the fact that they're including the dental stuff. I mean, I remember when you, what you see where you had all these lunatic Democrats thinking the President had died, remember, a few weeks, you know, months ago.

[Mark Halperin]

I do, I do. Like, Larry, Larry, they've acknowledged he's got a problem with blood circulation in his leg. So that's a, that's something they've acknowledged. In terms of his hands. They say it's because he shakes hands a lot. He doesn't shake hands with his left hand. And both his left and right hand have had makeup on them. They've got some weird discoloration. I'm not saying he's dying over it, but as, as, as some of you know, I'm for massive disclosure. Even if the president's 42. Massive disclosure about their health and we've never had it. No president's been forthcoming and this president has been more forthcoming than Joe Biden. Not just because Joe Biden and his team covered up his mental decline, but the data they've released. But once again, I use my, my, my small platform here. Please send the doctor out to the briefing room. News organizations, and not your political reporters, but your medical reporters to the White House that day. And let's have a conversation with questions and forthcoming answers about what's going on with the president's health. I'm not accusing them of a cover up and I'm not saying there's anything wrong. But he's 80 years old. He falls asleep in public. He's got something going on with his legs. They've acknowledged he's got something going on with his hands. Let's, let's just find out what it's all about.

[Larry O'Connor]

We will agree to disagree whether he really fell asleep in public. I spoke with a reporter who was in the room who said that he did not fall asleep when that video was being made.

[Mark Halperin]

So. Oh, my goodness.

[Kevin Walling]

He's also, he's also lost a good amount of weight too recently, I feel like, as well. I mean, he's a good thing.

[Larry O'Connor]

He's overweight or he's lost weight. Either way, he's dying and they're covering.

[Kevin Walling]

No, I'm not saying, I'm not saying.

[Mark Halperin]

Let's, let's, let's find out how he's losing weight. He could set a great example for America, including for me. Give up Eminem's.

[Kevin Walling]

It's on that fat shot. According to.

[Mark Halperin]

He's not, he's not.

[Larry O'Connor]

There's no Chris Christie.

[Mark Halperin]

So fat shot. All right. Primary day in Texas. John Cornyn got a vaunted slot on Fox and Friends this morning to tout his candidacy and attack his opponent.

[Kevin Walling]

I think he was also on Morning Joe too. Did I see him on Morning Joe earlier as well? Maybe the channel keep me on coveted Texas morning. Yeah, exactly.

[Mark Halperin]

Here's a bit of John Cornyn from Facts and Friends on John, on Mr. Paxton, Ken Paxton and on Donald Trump. 113, please.

[John Cornyn]

Well, with regard to Ken Paxton, Texans have learned that you can't trust a thing that Paxton says because he's lied to taxpayers. His senior staff got impeached by a Republican led House of Representatives and hung taxpayers with $6.6 million in a judgment from whistleblowers who turned him into the FBI. So hebecause he was interfering with a federal investigation of one of his campaign donors. And look, Lawrence, I've supported the president's agenda the whole time that he's been president. I'm proud of the fact that we confirmed hundreds of supreme justices including three new.

[Mark Halperin]

I like how he's about to explain what whip is.

[John Cornyn]

Whip or the chief vote counter during his first term.

[Mark Halperin]

You want to sound like inside the

[John Cornyn]

Beltway Jobs act and in the Working Family Tax Cuts act this time. So I've been an ally of the President. He's called me a friend. I understand he's made his choice. But only Texans get a chance to vote in this primary. And I'm hoping that those who did not vote early and the 75% who didn't vote at all in the primary will come out today and cast their vote.

[Mark Halperin]

You know, Kevin, if at 11:00pm tonight it was announced that John Cornyn had won the primary, what adjective would you describe your reaction?

[Kevin Walling]

Shocking.

[Mark Halperin]

Shocking. All right, Larry, do you agree that's

[Larry O'Connor]

about the right word? Yeah.

[Mark Halperin]

Shocking. All right.

[Kevin Walling]

I will say, I will say John Cornyn is when I was working for Tom Carper from Delaware, we were on the fifth floor of the Hart Senate Office Building. He was right next door. He's been there for 24 years. And he was always very kind to me coming on and off the elevator, very genteel, super nice guy.

[Mark Halperin]

Super nice.

[Kevin Walling]

No doubt that probably will hurt him for any Republican watching him.

[Larry O'Connor]

I would.

[Kevin Walling]

I just, I think he's a good guy. General.

[Larry O'Connor]

You know what I got from that?

[Kevin Walling]

He's running against a total slime ball.

[Larry O'Connor]

Think about it. You go on Fox and Friends and you want to make the final appeal to Texas Republicans who are watching that show this morning, heading out to the polls. And you just heard from that appearance, I didn't hear him say Texas Republicans care about a B and C and I've delivered on a B and C. Instead he, he cited what his resume was and the titles he's had and the Trump called him a friend with,

[Kevin Walling]

with it with the Texas Republican interviewing him. Lawrence Jones Right. Good guy.

[Mark Halperin]

Exit question Will Cornyn endorse Paxton if he loses the primary, will he endorse him? LARRY o' CONNOR no.

[Kevin Walling]

It's a good question.

[Mark Halperin]

No, I only ask the good questions, Kevin. Larry says no, he won't endorse them. KEVIN Bevin, will he endorse?

[Kevin Walling]

That's hopefully not Bat Bevin reference.

[Mark Halperin]

It wasn't that bad.

[Kevin Walling]

Yes, I think he, he's honestly, at the end of the day, he's, you know, he's a team player. So I think he does the correct

[Mark Halperin]

answer is tonight he will say wait and see. Wait and see.

[Kevin Walling]

He won't do it tonight. He won't do it tonight.

[Mark Halperin]

Eventually he'll, eventually he'll endorse, but I don't think he'll do it tonight. I don't think he'll be, he'll be pissed off. You don't think he will. Okay, well, Larry, he's not going to endorse Talaria.

[Larry O'Connor]

No, he's just going to, he's going to Jeb Bush it. He's right off.

[Mark Halperin]

Okay. All right, J.D. vance, as we said, J.D. vance is having a event today in D.C. with the some Republican attorneys general on his big fraud initiative. You see the headline from the Politico? I think we already put that up actually, but here it is again. Just so you can see see it. Oh no, this is a Daily Mail piece. Daily Mail says Vance maybe won't run for president anyway. KEVIN I'm just so confused about this anti fraud thing. Everybody's for anti fraud. Is this thing substantive? Is this real? What's, what's going on with it?

[Kevin Walling]

I think, I think it is. And I think, and I've said this before, I think Democrats should play ball. Obviously there was an issue, you know, you can't invite folks three days before the event is actually taking place. But I think it's in Democrats best interest to play ball with this. And you've seen fraud issues and we've talked about this not just in Minnesota, but in Ohio, Republican run states, Democratic run states with massive amounts of federal dollars, whether it be in the health care space, childcare space, what have you, employment space, Medicare space, and Democrats should play ball in this and not, and not see the ground on fraud to the Republicans.

[Larry O'Connor]

LARRY yeah, I completely agree, but I don't think Democrats can can do it and on a three days notice. I mean, you, you're an attorney general. You're not, you know, you're not Prince Charles, you or King Charles. You can drop everything and you go there, you show up. Because this is a huge issue. And I keep, I've been saying it for weeks. Republicans should make this one of the top three issues for the midterms. The fraud, the fraud, the fraud and go after it.

[Kevin Walling]

I think you give people more notice. I mean, some of these guys have to be in court, you know, and meetings and stuff like that. And you know, they did it to check the box and say, oh, we invited the Democrats, you know, and they all refused. No, you know, if you're serious, give them, give them a week's notice, two weeks notice, and, and do it right.

[Mark Halperin]

It's like, it's like an emergency.

[Larry O'Connor]

The impression of the two states where most of the stories have come out of California and Minnesota is that the elected officials who are supposed to be watching this stuff either didn't or don't think it's that big of a deal. And I think Democrats, if they're smart, should reverse that.

[Kevin Walling]

Yeah. And you saw, and again, you saw, you know, Tim Walls and you know, and that the Keith Ellison come before Congress to talk about it. I think you play ball and you know, and you, you submit yourself to the oversight. Now, I don't think it was, you know, it was a hearing that everyone wanted to pontificate at, but I do think you play ball.

[Mark Halperin]

You guys know my three pet peeves. Number one, I hate the phrase pet peeve. Number two, I don't like smack in the chat. And number three, I do not like when pundits engage in speculation about possible presidential candidates. Candidacies of people who can never be president. They're never going to be win their party's nomination. They'll never going to run as independents and raise a dollar. Ladies and gentlemen, I remind you of the boom lift for Spencer Cox, the governor of Utah, who could not who, Kevin has a better chance of winning the Republican nomination than Spencer Cox. The latest craze amongst ignorant and bored pundits. Again, a pet peeve. I caught a pet peeve, even though I don't like the phrase because it's so. Makes me so peevish is this man, Mr. Thomas Massie, who filed over the weekend 111 to to be able to run for his House seat again in 2018. But as Massey made clear in his tweet, here's the New York Times headline. After defeat, Massey opens door to a 2028 run. Which office is unclear. He said in his tweet, well, I'm not saying what I'm going to run for, but this allows him to raise federal money. And of course, if you raise into a house account, you can use it if you can run for president. Larry.

[Larry O'Connor]

Yes.

[Mark Halperin]

What do you make of the prospect of Massie running for president as a Republican, independent, a Democrat, a vegetarian, a libertarian? Could he, could this guy be a serious presidential candidate?

[Larry O'Connor]

I am unfamiliar with your contract of engagement with two way. I know Kevin and I probably have similar language and we agreed there would be no math. But Mark, I don't know about yours. So let me ask you, my understanding is Mr. Massie in the first quarter had of this year had 20,000 small dollar donors. That's under 200. If you get those 20,000 donors to donate $50 to you, how much is that? Mark Halpern Oh, Larry, I don't have any idea.

[Mark Halperin]

Larry.

[Larry O'Connor]

$1 million. $1 million. If each of them just like this,

[Kevin Walling]

1 million 50 bucks.

[Larry O'Connor]

This is, listen, the money is rolling.

[Mark Halperin]

What's your point?

[Larry O'Connor]

You got to have them. You got to put the money somewhere. That's why he's filed for 28 for Congress. And this is a money making scheme.

[Mark Halperin]

But I mean this is. But, but can I understand, but do you think, do you take Massey seriously as a presidential candidate at all? No, no, no.

[Larry O'Connor]

This is about money. This is about raising money. And by the way, who's his political mentor? Rand Paul. Who was Rand Paul's political mentor? His father, Ron Paul. Ron Paul, that was the family business, is running for president. They know how to do it and they know that there's big money in it. I hate to be so cynical, but that's the case.

[Mark Halperin]

Kevin, can you see?

[Kevin Walling]

Quick aside. I followed Ron Paul on Fox after an interview and I watched them take the IFB out of Ron Paul's ear and put it in my ear. And I said never again. And I got my own made.

[Larry O'Connor]

They didn't alcohol swab it.

[Kevin Walling]

They did not swipe it. We were on a quick turnaround time,

[Mark Halperin]

Kevin. I mean, I put my hand, Kevin, I put my hand on the bar in the subway. There's nothing in Ron Paul's ear that's going to kill you.

[Kevin Walling]

There are civilizations in Ron Paul's ear that talk to him.

[Larry O'Connor]

Would you put your hand on the bar in the subway and then lick the cream cheese from your bagel off that same hand?

[Kevin Walling]

Yeah, good point.

[Mark Halperin]

No, but this whole thing about the earpiece, it's like some disease ridden thing. It's just in Ron Paul's ear there's some wax.

[Kevin Walling]

I'm sure there's some wax.

[Larry O'Connor]

It's A literally an orifice of your body.

[Mark Halperin]

Okay, but Kevin, if you made out with Rand Ron Paul, you'd have. You'd have more. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's just his ear.

[Larry O'Connor]

Raise your eyebrows on that ear.

[Mark Halperin]

I don't understand it.

[Kevin Walling]

There are a lot of things I don't want to do.

[Mark Halperin]

So freaked out people. People like this earpiece. This earpiece is not going to kill you, Kevin. Hold on. Do you take. Do you take. Whose ear piece Would you.

[Larry O'Connor]

Would. You've got to draw the line somewhere. Is it. All right, so let's say they're interviewing some homeless meth addict from the streets of Los Angeles.

[Mark Halperin]

Somebody. Somebody with an ear infection, probably. I wouldn't want.

[Kevin Walling]

Yeah.

[Mark Halperin]

So.

[Larry O'Connor]

So open.

[Kevin Walling]

We'll just return it. We'll just return it to. This is a vanity exercise with Thomas.

[Mark Halperin]

Okay? You don't take him seriously.

[Kevin Walling]

He wants to keep his ability to raise money to fund his travel so he can give speeches either. And that's what this is all about.

[Mark Halperin]

If either. If either of you is on a. A normal pundit show and the host says, you know, Thomas Massie, the talk that he might run for president, I want you to turn to the host and act like Scott Jennings and just brutalize them. Just say, what Are you out of your mind?

[Kevin Walling]

Just lean back.

[Mark Halperin]

Out of your mind.

[Kevin Walling]

Yeah, get that out of my face.

[Mark Halperin]

Get that f in finger out of my face.

[Larry O'Connor]

Any used Q tips that I can borrow.

[Mark Halperin]

Lastly, regarding your Chapstick 2028. I've been surprised the last couple of weeks, months, maybe even Governor Shapiro. His name is not on the tip of people's tongue. I think he's the most likely nominee and honestly, maybe the most likely next president of the United States. I think.

[Kevin Walling]

Amen.

[Mark Halperin]

Very weak field and he's not a perfect candidate, but he's going to have a huge victory in the ultimate battleground state. Extremely skilled guy. And again, we're going to show you a clip. He did an interview with Jonathan Martin of the Politico, and boy, governors are arrogant. And this is not singling at Governor Shapiro. I've covered governors my whole career. They're the most arrogant group of people I've ever covered. They just think. They just think they're so. They just think they're the cat's pajamas. The cat's meow. What do you call that? Cat's pajamas. Anyway, here's Governor Shapiro talking about politics and possibly running for president, blah, blah, blah. Eating pizza with Jonathan Martin. After we watch that, I want you guys to tell me, why do you think it is that people have stopped talking about him as a top tier candidate? Here is Governor Shapiro, Pennsylvania, with the Politico.

[Josh Shapiro]

I don't think it has to be an either or. And I know you were making that point to suggest, wait, it's either Bernie or it's Shapiro. When in reality, I want to take on those big fights just like they do. I want to make sure that we're standing up to the powerful forces that continue to hold people back. And I don't think this is an either or. And I think we make a mistake as a party if we think of ourselves on a pendulum or we think of ourselves as, you can only be with this guy or you can only be with that guy. We got to find ways to bring people together.

[Mark Halperin]

This is where you could do your killer Bill Clinton impression and say, that's a false choice. False choice.

[Josh Shapiro]

You did the impression I'm talking, though, so I can eat.

[Larry O'Connor]

So that suggests to me that I'm

[Mark Halperin]

not going to get you to cop

[Larry O'Connor]

to the M word. You're not going to confess to being

[Mark Halperin]

a moderate today, are you?

[Josh Shapiro]

I just don't, I don't buy those labels. What I am is a governor who gets shit done and a governor who's accomplished a whole lot and who wants to get a lot more done. Judge me on my work, my record, the things I've stood up on. And if you look at my record, maybe sometimes it would be on the quote, unquote, political left, and sometimes it'd be more in the middle. My job, especially in a divided state like Pennsylvania, is to find ways to bring people together to accomplish our goals. And that's what I do.

[Mark Halperin]

Few things. First of all, Jonathan Martin's doing this series where you're supposed to eat. These guys actually ate a little bit on camera. Mostly people don't want to eat. They both wear white shirts. I would not wear a white shirt while I'm having pizza on camera. That's just me.

[Kevin Walling]

Or cheesecake or cheese Skate.

[Mark Halperin]

Kevin, don't dispute the premise. I guarantee you it's true. People have stopped talking about Shapiro as a top tier candidate. Talk about Newsom, they talk about aoc.

[Kevin Walling]

When. But when did, when, you know, you, you, you had them in your listing just a month ago.

[Mark Halperin]

You know, I've had. I've had them at number two. I just put them in number three, but I've always had them high. But if I look at these, if I listen to the donors, I listen to other politicians, I listen to the media chattering. People don't talk about him. It's like maybe, maybe the most likely. So I'm telling you it's true. Why, if it's. Don't dispute the premise, please, I beg you. Why are people not talking about Shapiro, the, the governor of Pennsylvania, moderate, huge fundraiser loved by the Obamas. Why aren't people talking? And Nancy Pelosi? Why aren't people saying this is the guy?

[Kevin Walling]

I mean, I don't want to dispute the premise, but I was in Texas last week with Democrats and Republicans. All the Democrats were talking about Josh Shapiro. None of them were talking.

[Mark Halperin]

All right, dispute the premise then. What kind of Democrats were they?

[Kevin Walling]

Center left Democrats, pro Israel Democrats, you know, for the most part. And their number one conversation was, do you, they asked me, do you think Josh Shapiro has a chance?

[Larry O'Connor]

Yeah.

[Kevin Walling]

They didn't ask about Gavin Newsom. They didn't ask about Bashir. They wanted to know about.

[Mark Halperin]

Okay, that's good to hear. That's good.

[Kevin Walling]

Appealing across the broad spectrum.

[Mark Halperin]

Let me ask you this then. Let me ask you this. Except for the fact that he's, people think a Jew can't be nominated. And, and he's. Except for that and the issues related to Israel, what are the other weaknesses that people see in Josh Shapiro as the nom to be the nominee?

[Kevin Walling]

I mean, I, I think that that's the number one concern that people bring up.

[Mark Halperin]

What's number two? What's number two?

[Kevin Walling]

I don't, I don't know if there is a number two that he's, you know, that he sometimes channels his own internal Barack Obama and comes off a little polished on that front. I think that's probably an attack line too. But, you know, impressive guy. I mean, I was with him a few weeks ago. He was. And I've spent a lot of time with the Clintons. This is not a pejorative. He is Clinton asking. His ability to work a room, engage, wants to know exactly who you are, what makes you tick, looks right at you again. That feeling is very rare in a politician. I don't even think Obama has that level of skill. Interpersonal and he's my favorite guy. But the ability to connect, Josh Shapiro has it. And that's a potent, potent tool in a primary and a general.

[Mark Halperin]

Larry, My number two is he's, and I've said this before, he's not effectively dealt with these controversies in Pennsylvania. He didn't deal with them when he's being vetted to be or Kamala Harris's running mate. He hasn't dealt with them the last year. All these things come up in Pennsylvania and he just doesn't deal with them. And it's, it's a cautionary sign.

[Larry O'Connor]

I think you're right. I think also, by the way, there are other things that it's not just by the way, it's so offensive that the truth and the reality is that it is a long shot for him to win the nomination because A, he's Jewish and B, he supports the state

[Mark Halperin]

of Israel's right to exist.

[Larry O'Connor]

It's just sad that we've reached that point. But I think that that is a major deal. But that's not the only thing. He was attorney general during George Floyd and he did not take a knee to the mob. He worked on some police reforms, but he worked with the police unions. He was actually relatively moderate on all of.

[Kevin Walling]

I think he was endorsed by, he's been endorsed by FOP and other organizations.

[Mark Halperin]

Also.

[Larry O'Connor]

He's not opposed to fracking. He continues as governor of Pennsylvania to court the fracking industry.

[Mark Halperin]

Oh, he's a fracker, Jerry. He's a fracker. He'll frack.

[Kevin Walling]

Which is a change. Which is a change from his predecessor, too.

[Larry O'Connor]

That's right. Yep. He also is supportive of certain school voucher programs for public education. Admit. So the point I'm making is from, from the anti Israel wing to the defund, the police wing to the teachers union wing to the environmental wacko wing. Where's his constituency in the Democrat Party, at least in the, in the primary process. Who is his base?

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah, well, it's the same as Bill Clinton.

[Larry O'Connor]

Right.

[Mark Halperin]

I've said this before. Bill Clinton was for right to work, welfare reform, death penalty, nafta, all antithetical to use the Democratic Party at the time. But he had. Shapiro has what Bill Clinton had besides great skills, as Kevin said. He has lots of liberals who love him. And so he'll bring them out and they'll say, I vouch for this guy.

[Kevin Walling]

And, and he's got something like Clinton does with the dlc, kind of laying the groundwork. And I think you've got Third Way doing a lot of that same work, making it palatable to have a center left Democrat who can win. And that's the key thing coming out of the Trump era.

[Larry O'Connor]

Can we pause, though, and reflect on the insistence, insightful interviewing stylings of one Jonathan Martin and just the penetrating approach that he took there in that clip? It's just something to really let the

[Mark Halperin]

interview speak for itself.

[Larry O'Connor]

All right.

[Kevin Walling]

He had a great one with Sarah Huckabee Sanders. I watched that. And of course he had Wes Moore and a few other good guys.

[Mark Halperin]

They didn't need a. They needed a lick during those. I'm gonna do a quick word from a sponsor, then we go to your questions. Ladies and gentlemen, you rarely hear me beg. I'm begging you. If you're here on the platform, you've never raised your hand. Please raise your hand. We'd love to start the week off here with some new folks. So please raise your hand. If you've never raised your hand, just ask a question. Tell Kevin how nice his shirt looks. Whatever you want, just please raise your hand. All right, here we go. The second sponsor of the episode is our friends at Shopify. Shopify is an e commerce platform that does it all. If you start in something new and you're worried nobody's going to show up to buy your product, listen to your podcast, whatever it is, that's where Shopify comes in right now. Try Shopify for a dollar per month trial offer. Start your account. Go to shopify.com mark and they'll charge you a dollar a month to understand that this is the e business platform you need to succeed. 10% of all E commerce in the United States is done on Shopify. Why do people use it? Because it's so easy to use. It's AI powered. There's templates, analytics, payments, marketing, 24 hour customer support. Everything is on there to allow you to launch. Well, don't try to launch by yourself. Use Shopify and try it now. For a dollar a month. Go to shopify.com, ladies and gentlemen, if you're ready and I say are you ready? Are you ready? If you are ready to turn your what ifs into cash money. If you're ready to do that, please go to shopify.com mark and try it out. It's 10% of all e commerce all in one platform for inventory, payments, analytics and returns with 24 hour customer support. Help reduce friction in starting your new thing.

[Eric Gertler]

From the state House to the courthouse, in the emergency room and in the classroom, Americans are losing trust in their leaders. In a 2025 U.S. news and World Report survey, 85% of Americans said government leaders care more about their own power than the people they serve. 73% are disappointed in healthcare leaders, 72% in business and 68% in education. But there are still leaders worth believing in. I'm Eric Gertler, CEO and executive chairman of U.S. news World Report. This is the best leaders podcast sponsored by the Noble Reach Foundation. On this show will go deeper into the stories, challenges and lessons of extraordinary leaders across public service, business, healthcare and education. You can find the best Leaders podcast from U.S. news World Report on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Mark Halperin]

All right, ladies and gentlemen, here we go. As Larry King would say, let's go to the phones. Let's go to the phones. Blake Dodd, welcome in. Thank you for being here. Don't pull over, Blake. Just gun it. Blake, where are you driving today, sir?

[Blake Dodd]

Huntsville, Alabama.

[Mark Halperin]

Huntsville.

[Kevin Walling]

Rocket Town, usa.

[Mark Halperin]

Rocket Town, usa. Thank you for joining, sir. I appreciate you being part of the two way community and tell us what's on your mind for Larry and for Kevin.

[Blake Dodd]

So I've watched almost for two years, I think, and something has just kind of been grinding my gears since Friday. And I want to get some further analysis. And that was, I think one of you said that you called Thomas Massie's response to his loss an anti Semitic trope.

[Larry O'Connor]

That was me.

[Blake Dodd]

And I think you and Kevin actually, and I don't know, I just struggle with, I read his comment. Maybe there was something else that he said besides finding his opponent in Tel Aviv. But, you know, people have accused Donald Trump of being in bed with Moscow. People have accused Swalwell of being in bed with Beijing. And I realize there's the whole blame the Jews thing, but I'm very troubled at how if anybody tries to speak to the deep influence with money and power that the Israeli lobby has currently in our politics, they're labeled as an anti Semitic person. And I find that a little bit unfair because there are a lot of people in the Republican Party, I feel like, like me, who are not really Tucker Carlsonites, but they are deeply troubled. That seems there's undue influence and that in a lot of ways Donald Trump did the principles that he ran on in second term. So I don't know, I just, maybe a little. Is that a fair characterization of people?

[Mark Halperin]

I'm so grateful for you calling in you speak for tens of millions. And, and I, and I have long said, like thrown around the phrase the accusation of anti Semitism, when someone just comes on the national town square and says I'm worried that Israel may have undue influence, I think is a, it's a great point for you to make. So I appreciate you for making it. Larry, what do you make of, of, of this, this framing?

[Larry O'Connor]

Well, Blake, I listen, I appreciate it. I do, I really do. And I do recognize that. And I criticize the Israeli government and I criticize choices that they have made in the past. I think that's our right as an American citizen, our right as a thinking, sentient human being. Right? When you say that your political opponent, who just defeated you in a primary and who participated on six of the seven Navy Seal teams and is a

[Kevin Walling]

decorated war veteran and a fifth generation Kentucky in too, and a very proud

[Larry O'Connor]

Christian conservative, when you say, oh, I tried to call him, but he was in Tel Aviv, it suggests two things. Number one, it suggests that he is an agent of a foreign country and specifically an agent of the only country on the planet that has identified as a. As an Israeli. A Jewish state. Right, A Jewish state. And so it seems like people who make comments like that, like Mr. Massie in the final weeks of his campaign, which were lamentable to me because I think he stood for something bigger and more reasonable in his past when that becomes the sum and total of your political narrative and that's what he decides to lead with. In his concession speech, I suggested that it was classless to go out with an anti Semitic trope. Because why is it just this one nation state that you're deciding to call out your opponent on and say that he was over in that country as an agent of that state? You know what I mean? I think all of those things, right?

[Blake Dodd]

All of those things are very dumb. He was a sore loser for sure.

[Mark Halperin]

Well, very sore loser.

[Larry O'Connor]

I named him the loser.

[Blake Dodd]

But anti Semitic is just.

[Larry O'Connor]

I named it that. Well, again, I didn't say he was anti Semitic. I said he used an anti Semitic trope. That may be a fine line, but it's a line I respect and real fast.

[Mark Halperin]

Blake.

[Larry O'Connor]

Of course, if I'm Israel, if I am Israel and I've existed for this long in the place in the planet that they exist, and I've got the enemies that I have around me and I've had to eke out my existence the way I have, I'm gonna have a pretty strong lobbying arm in this one country who could actually help me survive.

[Mark Halperin]

Kevin, is what Massey said anti Semitic is that joke he made.

[Kevin Walling]

I think it traffics in it. I think Larry makes the excellent point that it projects the notion that this guy who soundly defeated him is somehow an agent of the Israeli government, which is fundamentally wrong. And Chris, my friend Chris in the chat makes a great point. AIPAC is not Israeli money. It's Americans that feel strongly about this particular issue. Just like Americans feel strongly about civil rights or the environment that pull their resources and support a candidate. It's not outside Money influencing anything. It's Americans that feel strongly about a particular issue that, that are channeling their resources in that direction. Simple as that. And you have a long history of probes against Jews and money and anything that traffics in that, I think. You know, and there's degrees of anti Semitism, I think. Mark, you make an excellent point that I think people are called anti Semitic oftentimes when they are not actually, but when they don't catch their criticism perfectly and issue with Bibi Netanyahu, for example, and not with the state of. The state of Israel and its right to exist.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah. Blake, thank you. Grateful to you for saying what you said. And again, you speak for tens of millions. These are complicated issues. I just, I just prefer to air on the side of not accusing people of, of things without full documentation. But Massie has trafficked in stuff that is offensive to people, and Massie clearly has a point of view about Israel that he doesn't. He didn't hide and he did lose. He did lose. Dave, welcome in. Thank you for being here. Tell folks who don't know where you are what's on your mind. For Kevin and for Larry, thank you for being part of two ways.

[Dave]

Hey, good morning, guys. Virginia right now, right?

[Mark Halperin]

What part?

[Dave]

Virginia Beach.

[Larry O'Connor]

Oh, beautiful, beautiful. Very nice.

[Mark Halperin]

What's on your mind?

[Dave]

Yeah, I really just want to say I think a lot of people had, you know, we're freaking out over the weekend, right, over this possible deal. Personally, it kind of seems like there's no way a deal can happen, but that doesn't mean that we can't be kind of led on and hear this kind of speculation all the time.

[Mark Halperin]

Why do you say a deal can't happen?

[Dave]

I think there's hard lines that the President has had for a very long time, and I think he's willing to lose the midterms over it, to be honest. Not that he wants that to happen, but the likelihood that he's going to cave on this, I don't really see. There's a ton of speculation, but that's all we really see on it, just personally speaking.

[Kevin Walling]

Okay.

[Mark Halperin]

Is that what you want the guys to respond to or do we have another question?

[Dave]

Yeah, well, the question I had was on Massey. You know, I think part of the criticism that I've seen is, you know, at the same time as he's been, you know, very anti lobby as far as Israel, which I think you can justifiably be in certain circumstances, he's also really not discussed a lot of the funding sources that he has received from various, you know, more Islamist backed organizations, if you will, that are clearly documented. So that was kind of more the question I had was for the group.

[Kevin Walling]

Kevin yeah, Dave, you bring up an interesting point. I'll have to dig a little bit deeper in terms of some of his backing. Obviously he raised a good amount of grassroots money. Epstein was also an issue clearly that he was able to raise about. Of course, he started out kind of as a libertarian streak potentially. I wouldn't be surprised if he entertained some idea of running as a libertarian potentially for a president on that line because that's again, how he got his start in terms of anti government funding, vote against budgets, things like that. But I just don't know enough in terms of who is backing him necessarily if you had a bunch of pro Islamist groups engaging there in that race.

[Larry O'Connor]

Larry yeah, I think Kevin's right there. Most of I think Massie's money, I think came from small donors. I don't think it came from large entities in Qatar and foreign governments, I don't think. But it could have gone to PACs or Super PACs. I'm not sure. To your first question on whether a president doesn't care about the midterms. I would never go so far as to suggest that. I do think that he is trying not to let politics drive his decisions while we're in the middle of the combat and while the men who are wearing the uniform and their parents are counting on him to do what's right, not necessarily what's going to serve his party's interests. I will say, though, and I've been saying it, that the combination of the redistricting for the House races this November and the way some of the Senate races appear to be heading with regard to who the Democrats are nominating and things like that, I think he's got a little more breathing room. I don't think it's quite as politically intense for him right now to resolve this because I think that he's got a little bit more room for error

[Kevin Walling]

in terms of who's at the top of the ticket necessarily on state ballots.

[Larry O'Connor]

Larry on, on Senate racism. Just looking at the House and the Senate, I think that the way the Democrats are moving toward who they're nominating in the Senate and the way the maps are now looking for the House, I think he feels a little bit more breathing room to be able to operate because it's not quite as dire a situation. He can still win the House in the Senate and he's got a little bit More time to play with. That's my read on it, Dave.

[Mark Halperin]

Thank you. Grateful to you. Thank you, Dave. A court of appeals three judge panel in Alabama just issued a ruling on the redistricting map under which Republicans thought they would pick up one seat. And they said the map, which was a re recycled map from a few years ago, was intentionally discriminatory. So for now we'll see if the full court of appeals or the Supreme Court overturns that. But for now, the federal courts have said Republicans can't have that seat. So presumably Democrats would be able to win it. And that would be minus one in the Republicans redistricting efforts. Guys, I have a Clay and Buck on. On next up today. I'm looking for some question ideas. Any ideas of things I should ask those two guys that you're going to

[Larry O'Connor]

ask Clay and Buck. Yeah, just anything you would like me

[Mark Halperin]

to ask them, you could ask.

[Kevin Walling]

You gotta. Yeah. Ask Buck more about his time at the CIA. That's what I want to know. You know, get him more on the

[Larry O'Connor]

record and ask him about the time he and I ate cockroaches in Mexico City together.

[Mark Halperin]

Come on.

[Kevin Walling]

On a dare.

[Mark Halperin]

Like raw.

[Blake Dodd]

A lot.

[Mark Halperin]

Actually.

[Larry O'Connor]

They weren't cockroaches. I'm sorry. They were grasshoppers. Like there's a difference.

[Mark Halperin]

That's a delicacy. Oh, grasshoppers is a food.

[Larry O'Connor]

Yeah.

[Mark Halperin]

All right. What were the circumstances?

[Larry O'Connor]

In my mind they were crack cockroaches.

[Mark Halperin]

What were the circumstances?

[Larry O'Connor]

You can ask him. There was tequila involved.

[Kevin Walling]

Okay.

[Mark Halperin]

Kevin, what's the weirdest thing you've ever eaten? Monkey. Paul.

[Kevin Walling]

I've actually had. I've actually had that at Oyamal.

[Mark Halperin]

Monkey Paw.

[Kevin Walling]

No, no, the grasshoppers. It is the delicacy. And Jose Andres's restaurant in. In Chinatown.

[Mark Halperin]

Duck feet. Larry says. Larry says they're akin to cockroaches. And you're bragging about it.

[Larry O'Connor]

The legs were way too crunchy and sharp. They're like, get your esophagus on the way down. It's nasty.

[Kevin Walling]

Yeah, it's not. It's not good.

[Larry O'Connor]

It wasn't a pleasant experience.

[Mark Halperin]

All right, I'll be over at SiriusXM. Kevin will give you the phone number and. And we'll see every. See everybody later on two way tonight. Gentlemen, as always, a distinct pleasure, high honor, rare privilege and. Larry, why are you looking up?

[Larry O'Connor]

I'm looking at my clock. I'm seeing how much time you have left as you count this down.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah. Larry, how are you feeling? The big reveal is Larry's the One in great physical pain.

[Larry O'Connor]

I'm in great physical agony right now.

[Mark Halperin]

Are you better now than you were at 9:00am Eastern Time or.

[Larry O'Connor]

No, I'm numb now.

[Mark Halperin]

Numb. I enter every program numb and leave it much the same. So I understand how you're feeling.

[Kevin Walling]

Ladies and gentlemen, give Mark a call over at 833-446-3496 over on Sirius as he drops off to host the second hour.

[Larry O'Connor]

And he took it right.

[Kevin Walling]

How about it? Well, that's because of the great Alan C. Always with a perfect assist in the group chat.

[Larry O'Connor]

All right, is there any business that we have to take care of now

[Kevin Walling]

that Dad's a lot of action in the group chat today. Love the conversations over there too as we try and keep up with folks over there as well. Of course, we will be back tomorrow morning, same time, same place, Wednesday morning. New episode of NextUp drops today as Mark just previewed. It's with Clay Travis and Buck Sexton. Buck Sexton, another great one from last week with Joe Cunningham and Garrett Graves, two former members. If you haven't listened to that one, be sure to do that as well.

[Larry O'Connor]

And we'll discuss grasshoppers eating grasshoppers. Yeah.

[Kevin Walling]

And then of course, we wait tonight

[Larry O'Connor]

at 5 we found ourselves in Mexico City and at a rather authentic restaurant and the waitress comes by and orders them. We want some guacamole. And she said, do you want that with. Well, I don't, I don't even know how we figured out what she was saying, but I have second year Spanish. Oh, who bucks. Clay's a CIA guy, so he probably speaks seven languages.

[Dave]

Right.

[Larry O'Connor]

And we factored out that one of the options was to get roasted grasshoppers on top of the guacamole, like syrup mixed in and on top of the guacamole. And we looked at each other and said, well, hell yes, we're going to get grasshoppers on our one in row.

[Kevin Walling]

Or Mexico City.

[Larry O'Connor]

Or Mexico.

[Kevin Walling]

And then join Professor Kenny and friends at the official after show that kicks off at 11. The chat is open right now where you engage with the serious show and then. Are you back on at noon, Larry?

[Larry O'Connor]

I am, unless. Unless my doctor advises me otherwise.

[Kevin Walling]

Well, feel better than we thinking of you in that sciatica.

[Dave]

That's.

[Larry O'Connor]

We'll be, we'll be live at noon, Larry, on the Larry o' Connor channel for Town Hall. Thanks, everybody.

[Kevin Walling]

Get a steroid shot and just go, you know, just.

[Larry O'Connor]

I might need to do that. I might need to do exactly that. Thanks, gang.

[Kevin Walling]

All right, thanks, everybody. We'll see everybody bright and early tomorrow morning.

[Mark Halperin]

Bye.