Is Pete Hegseth Out of the Woods on Drug Boat Bombings? Is Big GOP Win in Tennessee Not Big Enough?

Summary

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The Morning Meeting (2WAY)

Episode: "Is Pete Hegseth Out of the Woods on Drug Boat Bombings? Is Big GOP Win in Tennessee Not Big Enough?"
Date: December 3, 2025
Host: Mark Halperin
Guests/Co-hosts: Kristen Davidson (Republican consultant), Yemisi Egbole (Democratic strategist)

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Overview

This episode of The Morning Meeting dives into two headline stories dominating American politics:

1. The special Congressional election result in Tennessee’s 7th District, and what its surprising margin means for both parties.
2. The ongoing scrutiny of Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth, the aftermath of the controversial drug boat “double tap” bombings, and whether new investigative reports might endanger his job.

The panel—host Mark Halperin with guest co-hosts Kristen Davidson and Yemisi Egbole—unpack these stories, analyze their implications for 2026, and field wide-ranging audience questions on governance, accountability, the economy, Ukraine, and military culture.

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Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. Tennessee’s Special Congressional Election: GOP Win, Democratic Momentum

• Result Recap

  • Republican Van Epps wins TN-7 by nine points—significant but well below Donald Trump’s prior margin in the district.
  • The Democratic candidate, Afton Baines, overperformed by 13-15 points.

• Why It Matters

  • “If every House district in the country shifted left by this amount, we would be looking at a blue wave far worse than 2018.” (Mark, citing Matt Whitlock) [09:21]
  • Media “horse race” mentality means early close returns can shift narratives—reporters often interpret late swings as momentum or a crisis, even when it’s just about which precincts counted first.

• GOP Analysis

  • Kristen is cautious about reading too deeply into this one race:
    “Every district is going to be different... You can't just copy and paste and apply this to all the other elections.” [11:34]
  • However, she highlights GOP concern: high turnout but a double-digit swing in the “wrong direction” shows Republican voter excitement remains softer than Democratic motivation. [|12:25]
    “Voters are excited—they’re just not ours right now.”

• Democratic Angle

  • Yemisi warns Democratic leadership that candidate quality is crucial:
    “To call somebody the AOC of anything just does not play with Democrats that exist in that southeast region... Defund the police never gained traction anywhere below the Mason Dixon line.” [12:49]
  • She suggests much of Baines’ overperformance owed more to dissatisfaction with the Trump administration than to the candidate’s strengths.

• Messaging—What Moved Voters?

  • There’s dispute about whether the Democrat’s focus on kitchen-table issues (economy, health care, cost of living) powered her outperformance.
  • Kristen: “Her ads were pretty good... talking about grocery prices and cost of living. The key... was to pin it on Republicans and Trump not caring.” [14:35]
  • Both note, however, that negative ads may have missed by throwing “too much mud,” confusing or fatiguing voters. [15:30]
  • Yemisi: dissatisfaction with the White House did more for turnout than candidate quality did [14:07].

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2. Affordability and the Economy: Political Messaging on the Defensive

• Trump’s Take: “Affordability Is a Scam”

  • President Trump is quoted in the New York Times and on camera dismissing “affordability” concerns as a Democratic con: “The word affordability is a Democrat scam... They say it and go on to the next subject and everyone thinks, oh, they had lower prices. No, they had the worst inflation in the history of our country.” [17:59]

• Navigator Research Focus Group Findings

  • “Participants are struggling mightily to afford the basics... The wealthy are seen as benefiting from a rigged system. Politicians are seen as out of touch.” [18:23]
  • Notable voter quotes:
    • “I'm scared. I'm scared of losing our health care, of him not getting the care that he needs and me not being able to provide for my family, even though I went to school and got a career to do so.”—Independent, NH [19:50]
    • “Do we really need a ballroom? 5 billion, 3 billion or something?”—Independent, ME [20:04]

• Analysis of Trump’s Messaging

  • Yemisi: “I’d tell him not everybody grew up like he did. Affordability is a real word. He’s never had to think about the cost of anything... [but] credit where credit is due, he’s done a pretty good job of making the everyman believe he is the everyman—until now.” [20:47]
  • Kristen: GOP needs to “humanize affordability” and “personalize it”; old-fashioned retail politics (supermarkets, McDonalds, garbage trucks) worked for Trump and Youngkin, but simply repeating “affordability” isn’t enough. [22:14]

• Future Strategy Suggestions

  • Both strategists argue Trump and Republicans must be seen out engaging with everyday Americans, making policy real (not just slogans), and respond quickly (especially ahead of the State of the Union). [24:32]

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3. Hegseth, the Pentagon, and Maritime Bombings: Scandal, Transparency, and Survival

• Context

  • Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth remains under scrutiny over the Navy “double tap” bombing of a drug boat (with fatalities).
  • An Inspector General report (“signal gate”) is now in the hands of the Secretary and Congress.

• Is Hegseth in the Clear?

  • Mark: “I think that Secretary Hegseth is out of the danger he was in, at least for now.” [34:47]
  • Yemisi: “I don’t think he gets fired either.” [39:45]
  • Both Kristen and Yemisi agree—there’s nothing in the IG report likely to cost Hegseth his job, even if it details improper handling of classified information. [40:15]

• Transparency and Blame

  • Chris Meagher (former White House/DoD): “A very simple solution... would be to lay out in detail what exactly happened when and on what authority... It hasn’t happened yet, which begs the obvious question: why?” [36:14]
  • Mark Warner (D-VA): “I want to get answers on what did Hegseth order? Why haven't we seen the whole unedited video if there’s nothing inappropriate here?... I expect Bradley to adhere to the Constitution and not to Trump.” [37:10]
  • Yemisi: Expects blame to be pushed down the chain, but Congressional focus will remain on Hegseth. [38:24]
  • Kristen: GOP could calm itself if Hegseth’s team is transparent, but “the handling is worse than whatever the allegation is.” [38:58]

• Audience Q&A—Rule of Law, Congressional Oversight

  • Joshua: Spells out “four excuses” given so far for the bombing, raises concern about lack of Congressional authorization for military action—even if the targets are criminal. [45:28]
    • “We can’t just engage in extrajudicial killings... If that’s what’s going on, I condemned it with Obama and I condemn it now.” [53:10]
  • Panel agrees: Congress chronically avoids war-power responsibility, leading to unchecked executive action. This is true across administrations. [48:23]

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4. Ukraine: Fatigue Without a Deal

• Status Update

  • Recent peace talks between US envoys and Russia (Putin leaves US negotiators waiting; meeting runs past midnight; now briefing Zelensky).
  • No major progress; “Kremlin signals no Ukraine breakthrough.” [33:48]

• Panel Take

  • Fatigue in the US public—the panel doubts a deal is likely soon and expects American political patience and attention to wane.
  • “It is just getting really, really hard for people in America to care and be as sympathetic about Ukraine as we once were.”—Yemisi [33:48]
  • Kristen: “There’s just not a whole lot of moral encouragement to keep going.” [34:22]

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5. Health Care: Slim Hopes for Bipartisanship

• Current Debates

  • Active talks in Congress for a bipartisan health-care deal before Christmas or even January, but little optimism.
  • Kristen: “I think they’re going to try and punt it again... [This is] decades of opposition on critical infrastructure in American health care.” [31:46]

• Yemisi’s Take:

  • “Congress is like a poor student, always ill-prepared, asking for more time.” [32:36]

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6. Other Notable Q&A and Moments

• Which Executive Branch Agency is Most Trump-Controlled?

  • Kristen: “All of them... the administration is not tolerating defectors this time.” [42:25]
  • Yemisi: “Department of War—they’re the only ones who changed their name.” [43:03]
  • Mark: The most under-White House control is the State Department, since National Security Advisor is now also Sec. of State. [43:20]

• Influence of “Third-Level” Staffers

  • Kristen and Mark mention figures like Dan Driscoll (DoW) and Harmeet Dhillon (DOJ Civil Rights)—quietly powerful behind the scenes. [43:58]

• Military Cultural Shifts under Hegseth

  • Hegseth aims to make the military “more confrontational, not worrying about going to jail or court-martial” (WSJ coverage cited).
  • Kristen argues recent years saw an intentionally “softer” approach under Obama/Biden, which some saw as weak; Hegseth is a reaction against that, but lasting change is unlikely. [54:44]
  • Yemisi: “Hegseth will be out in a couple of years, and whatever culture change he's made will just reverse with the next president.” [56:04]

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• On Race Results' Meaning:

  • “Everyone is going to see what they want out of this.” —Kristen Davidson [11:34]

• On “Affordability” as a Red-Hot Voter Issue:

  • “Affordability is a real word. He’s never had to think about the cost of anything.” —Yemisi [20:47]
  • “You have to humanize affordability. You have to personalize it.” —Kristen [22:14]

• On Hegseth’s Survival:

  • “Is there anything in the signal gate report that would cause Hegseth to lose his job? No.” —Mark, Kristen, Yemisi [40:15]

• On Executive Power:

  • “Congress is like a poor student, always ill-prepared, asking for more time.” —Yemisi [32:36]
  • “We can't just engage in extrajudicial killings... If that’s what's going on, I condemned it with Obama and I condemn it now.” —Joshua [53:10]

• On Military Culture Changes:

  • “I think Hegseth will be out in a couple years, and whatever culture change he’s made will just reverse with the next president.” —Yemisi [56:04]

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Key Timestamps

• Election Results Analysis: 06:34 – 16:30
• Economic Messaging/Affordability: 16:30 – 27:16
• Hegseth/Drug Boat Strike: 34:47 – 40:15
• Ukraine Talks: 32:36 – 34:47
• Health Care Prospects: 31:40 – 32:36
• Executive Branch Q&A: 41:44 – 44:25
• Military Culture Q&A: 54:07 – 56:54
• Longform Q&A—Rule of Law and Authorization: 45:28 – 53:26

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Tone & Takeaways

The conversation is sharp, pragmatic, and at times wryly humorous (“Congress is like a poor student...”). Mark is probing yet even-handed; Kristen and Yemisi offer inside-baseball perspectives from both parties, with candid critiques of their own teams and a recognition that much of DC involves performance and perception as much as policy.

For those catching up:

• The Tennessee GOP win is safe on the surface, but the strong Democratic overperformance is a wakeup call on candidate quality and base motivation.
• The Trump administration’s messaging on affordability is out of step with voters’ real anxieties—showing up and talking cost-of-living could be the GOP’s best path in 2026.
• Hegseth is likely to survive the drug boat scandal due to political alignment, unless new facts emerge—but questions swirl about transparency, congressional oversight, and military accountability.
• On Ukraine and healthcare, the mood is one of fatigue and skepticism: no big breakthroughs are expected soon.

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Summary prepared for The Morning Meeting (2WAY), December 3, 2025.

Transcript

[James Patterson]

I'm James Patterson. I write way too many books. Welcome to Hungry Dogs. The title comes from my maternal grandmother, Isabel Zelvis Morris. Nan used to always say, hungry dogs run faster, James. And I've been running fast ever since. Here's what will be coming your way soon. And this is a really terrific list. I think you'll hear from some incredible people like Stacey Abrams.

[Mark]

Yay.

[James Patterson]

BJ Novak.

[Mark]

Yay.

[James Patterson]

Kathy Bates, Dolly Parton, Josh Gad. And Pope Leo. Okay, maybe not Pope Leo, but who knows? Maybe he'll show up. Hungry dogs run faster. Thank you, Grandma, for turning me into a hopeless, obsessive, compulsive. Listen to Hungry Dogs with James Patterson. That'd be me on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

[Mark]

This is it.

[Yemisi Egbole]

The world as you know it is over.

[Mark]

Completely done. It's not about to be over.

[Yemisi Egbole]

It's over.

[Mark]

Some of the scientists who helped build.

[Kristen Davidson]

AI are now sounding the alarm.

[Joshua]

I was selling AI as a great thing for decades and I was wrong.

[Mark]

I was wrong.

[Joshua]

There is a longer term existential threat that will arise when we create digital beings that are more intelligent than ourselves. We have no idea whether we can stay in control.

[Mark]

While others say that AI will usher in unfathomable abundance, I've always believed that it's going to be the most important invention that humanity will ever make. This really will be a world of abundance.

[Kristen Davidson]

And among these fears and these fantasies, we seek the story of our future. Listen to the last invention on Apple.

[Mark]

Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Good morning, everybody. Welcome. It's the morning meeting. You missed the pregame show. If you weren't here on the two way platform, consider joining us here tomorrow. If you're watching on x or on YouTube. No smack in the chat. Peace, love and understanding to all. Presumption of grace to all. And whether you're watching on those platforms or here on the two way platform where you get an opportunity to raise a question, you'll notice we have two great, two great new guest co hosts today, Familiar faces, the two way community. But here on this program, joining now, Kristen Davidson, a Republican who has is part of a giant consulting conglomerate. It's like the, it's like the Microsoft of consulting. And Yemassi Egbole is taking the opposite route. She's a solo practice. Solo practitioner, but both with great experience in politics, government and everything else. And ladies, couldn't be more excited to have you here. Yemassi, who knows you're on today Who'd you tell that you're. You're guest co hosting? Anybody?

[Yemisi Egbole]

I told all of my, all of my signal chats, all my, all my followers.

[Mark]

All right, well, hopefully they're rooting you on Kristen. Do you tell anybody you're here or made it?

[Kristen Davidson]

I just dropped it into my family chat, so they're all in different time zones. Hopefully they figure it out.

[Mark]

Got it. All right, well, they can always watch on Demand. Of course. You can watch the show on YouTube anytime you want, live or on demand and listen to it as a podcast. Lots of stories that are carrying through. And of course, we're going to start with the big Tennessee house special result. Again, if you're watching here on the platform, you want to be part of the conversation, we'd welcome your participation. If you've never raised your hand, today's a good day because the opportunity to ask these two women questions is not something most Americans get to do. So please raise your hand if you want to get in on the conversation. Quick word from a sponsor and then we're going to dive right into the results from that race in Tennessee. Fairway and green reminder. I'm wearing one of their products right here. If you want to get something from Fairway and green for the holidays for people on your list like, like Wickham did, go to Twoway TV Fairway. You got about a week to order. If you want to make sure you get something embroidered before Christmas. So Fairway 2 way TV Fairway also available to you now at a. And there's a discount on that. What's the discount on that? I gotta look that up. Well, you'll see it when you get to the site. But there is a discount.

[Yemisi Egbole]

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[Mark]

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[James Patterson]

I'm James Patterson. I write way too many books. Welcome to Hungry Dogs. The title comes from my maternal grandmother, Isabel Zelvis Morris. Nan used to always say, hungry dogs run faster, James. And I've been running fast ever since. Here's what will be coming your way soon. And this is a really terrific list. I think you'll hear from some incredible people like Stacey Abrams.

[Mark]

Yay.

[James Patterson]

BJ Novak.

[Mark]

Yay.

[James Patterson]

Kathy Bates, Dolly Parton, Joss Gad, and Pope Leo. Okay, maybe not Pope Leo, but who knows, Maybe he'll show up. Hungry dogs run faster. Thank you, Grandma, for turning me into a hopeless, obsessive, compulsive. Listen to Hungry Dogs with James Patterson. That'd be me on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

[Mark]

Thank you for your attention to that matter. You know, there's a crazy thing about elections, whether they're exit polls or not. The early exit polls, if there are any, and the early returns shape the mentality of reporters. So last night, if you were watch up watching the returns come in from Tennessee, it was very close for a while. They were literally tied, you know, in the percentage wise. And then the Republican ended up winning by almost double digits by nine points. Had it been the reverse, had it been nine points, down to down to two or, you know, one, reporters would have seen that as like a big momentum shift. It's irrational because the early returns aren't like. It's not like a horse race where they're ahead and somebody catches up. It's just where the returns come in. In any event, because it went from a tie in the early returns to a big win for the Republican. Not as big as Donald Trump won the district. The Republicans are getting hit less by the media than they otherwise would. Trust me, I'm right about this because I know how the psychology of those people in the media work and in this case, really helped them. Now today, the president at the White House is making an announcement at 2:30. Well, at 10:00. He's participating in the internship program. 2:30. He's got an announcement. Not sure what that announcement is. So we'll stand by for that. And of course, full coverage of that on two way tonight. Vice President don't know what he's doing. Pete Hegseth 445 is lighting the attending the lighting of the very first Department of War Christmas tree. Lots of activity on Capitol Hill. They continue to look for a health care solution. We'll talk about that. The House and Senate Republican conferences are meeting for their lunches on both Republican and Democrat NATO. Foreign ministers are in Brussels today. People are making a big deal about the fact that the secretary of state is not going. His deputy is going. Witkoff and Kushner out of Moscow meeting somewhere in Europe to brief Zelensky on their talks with Putin. Putin, as we predicted here yesterday, left them waiting for a long time, didn't, didn't start the meeting on time. That's like a old Putin trick. And they went and just had a fancy lunch and the meeting went past midnight local time. And now they're briefing Zelensky. Still no clarity there. The Ukraine's ambassador to the US Is testifying in front of Senate Appropriations on this issue of the abduction of Ukrainian children. Luigi Mangione is still in pretrial hearing here in New York and the Supreme Court is still hearing cases. All right, let's talk about Tennessee.

Here is the Tennessee and headline 103. Again, the Republican one. If you look at the coverage basically say everybody says the same thing. Republican Van Epps wins special election in Tennessee 7th district first Tennessee's first special congressional election in more than four decades. That's kind of incredible. And.

The, the coverage generally says you know what's true, which is not a disaster for Republicans. But everybody agrees if this is what happens going forward, it will be a disaster for Republicans. 108 please. This is Matt Whitlock who's been a guest on this platform before. Here's what he says. This is one of the biggest flashing red light warning signs we've seen yet for Republicans. If every House district in the country shifted left by this amount about 15 points, again, the gap between what Donald Trump got in the district versus what the Democrat got, the Republican got last night, we would be looking at a blue wave far worse than 2018. Matt Whaleck estimates 43 seats flipping the chair of the DNC. Ken Martin put this on Twitter 107A agreeing with Matt Whitlock. Afton Baines over performance is a flashing warning sign for Republicans heading into the midterms. I think that's the same metaphor as Matt Whitlock used. Republicans had to spend millions just to barely hold onto the seat.

And there's some blind quotes like in Politico saying, you know, this is a disaster, but obviously we're 11 months away. So let's start. Kristen.

What would, what would make Republicans confident that if this very liberal candidate in a very red district shifted things 15 points, what would make, give Republicans reason to believe that this won't happen in all these other districts where, where if Democrats have stronger candidates, they could actually, you know, take back the House majority significantly?

[Kristen Davidson]

So I'm not, I'm not totally sold on the theory that a better or different candidate would have done better in the situation on the Democrat side. Obviously she was, she had so much in her oppo file. She had a lot of, you know, crazy things that were said. But I think she also riled up the base. And so if you had someone that was maybe more, you know, dirt road Democrat, would they have done as well in the Nashville area and things like that? So I'm not totally convinced yet. But I do think, you know, it is worth a debate on the Democrat side on whether or not they nominate more aftons or more spam burgers. And that's what they need to figure out. And frankly, there's not one answer. Every district is going to be different. And that's what both parties really need to understand about the results from last night is that this, you can't just copy and paste and apply this to all the other elections. I mean, this was if there was ever a, you know, not litmus test, but, you know, kaleidoscope. You know, I talked to one person last night who said, wow, this was a huge march and blowout for Republicans and another person with Trump derangement syndrome who said, wow, really close. So, I mean, everyone is going to see what they want out of this. I think for Republicans, if there is a bright side, it would be that, you know, in the last minute we were able to get out some mid propensity voters, which we haven't been able to do in the last few rounds of special elections. But I think the bigger warning sign for me is that, I mean, there was not low turnout. We had midterm election turnout, which is what we're going to see across the board next year. And we still shifted 13 points in the wrong direction. So that's something that we have to grapple with. This wasn't just a wow, voters Aren't turning out. Voters are excited. They're just not ours right now.

[Mark]

Yeah. If Ken Martin, of course, has to say, this is all awesome, but if you were staffing him and he said what, what wasn't great, like what what was what about the result wasn't great for us, is there something you see that you'd warn him about?

[Yemisi Egbole]

I would just warn him about candidate quality. Honestly, I mean, I do think, especially coming from Georgia, as a Southern Democrat, she just wasn't it. I mean, to call somebody the AOC of anything just does not play with Democrats that exist in that southeast region. Her past tweets when she was a private citizen with Defund the Police. I mean, Defund the police never gained traction anywhere below the Mason Dixon line. That was always something that ended up in very deep blue cities as messaging. I think it's candidate quality for every single district. And I do think that people may be closer to the center do galvanize voters for places that don't feel as deeply blue as a New York City. Like Nashville is a blue, but it just feels like a different kind of deep blue.

[Mark]

Yeah.

[Yemisi Egbole]

And it's crazy. She could say, I hate Nashville and I hate country music. And people still came out in Nashville and voted for her.

[Mark]

So now that is definitely not something you'd want on your resume if you're running in Nashville. Okay, let's. Let's talk about her message and then switch the president. Either of you disagree that to the extent she overperformed, which she did, that it was because she emphasized the economy, health care, cost of living, affordability? Do you guys agree that that was her strongest message and likely accounts for her success or not necessarily.

[Yemisi Egbole]

I actually don't think she was that great of a messenger. Every interview I watched with her was really rough. I actually think growing unpopularity and dissatisfaction with this administration boosted her a lot more than if she was just standing alone. I think if she was running a special election at the top of this year, it would have felt differently than at the bottom of this year when folks are looking to 2026 for like some kind of economic relief.

[Mark]

Kristen, do you think economics played a role in her over performance?

[Kristen Davidson]

I think it did. And so I'm going to like what the voters are seeing. A lot of them weren't really seeing her interviews. They're not watching Ms. Now or the channel is. They're seeing the wave of advertising that came in in the final few weeks. I think it was like 2.3 million to 3.1, you know, almost equal Both. Both parties. And her ads were pretty good. I mean, I, I watched them and I thought I would run that ad with a Republican in another district. I mean, talking about grocery prices and cost of living. And the key that, that I think her. Whoever did her ads, I mean, she was a bad candidate, bad interviews. But her ad themselves, they were able to pin it on. And hey, Republicans and Trump don't care about fixing it, which is frankly out of the Trump playbook. It's what he did last year, saying that Harris cares more about all these social issues and not about your pocketbook. And I think her ads did that, which is why she was doing so well. Because, I mean, at the end of the day, the voters are seeing the paid advertising more than they're seeing her podcast or whatever. Like, Twitter is not real life. And so they're not seeing all the, you know, rage tweets that the right was doing about her. Her quotes. They were seeing those ads. On the flip side, the hits on her, because there were so plentiful. I think we were almost thrown too much mud at the wall. I think we probably could have killed her a little bit earlier had we honed in on one or two. Like when she was saying she was against ice, when she was against the police. I mean, if you really honed in on one of those and just, you know, focused on it, I think that might have been a little bit more effective on the onset instead of, you know, kind of hitting. At some point, voters get overloaded and they can't. They don't even start believing what you're telling them. Yeah.

[Yemisi Egbole]

I think my wonder is, is having a Harris come out. Do you think. Do you think Christian, like Republicans? I just saw a lot of them grasp onto that and they were like, why would they. She have Harris come out? Do you think Harris was a boon at all? To me, it was really a non factor. She could have come. She could not come. But it'll be interesting to see how Dems use Harris and then also if. If Republicans will point to it every time.

[Mark]

Yeah, yeah, let's talk about the President because. Because every Republican I've talked to in the last couple weeks has talked about their strong desire to have the President talk about affordability and prices and not just talk about it, but have stuff to talk about and actually do to turn things around. Yesterday in the Cabinet meeting, the President, the Vice President and the Treasury Secretary both said, happy days are sort of here, but they'll definitely be here next year. They both said the economy would be good next year, which if it's true, obviously would affect this. Here's what the President said at the Cabinet meeting about the economy. Let's start with.

My apologies here. 116A please. Is a new York Times headline on their story about the president and affordability. Trump calls affordability a con job as his edge on the economy slips. President Trump is growing frustrated as Americans struggle with higher prices and pessimism over the state of the economy. Here's from the Times story quoting the President at the Cabinet meeting.

Next. After taking off what he claimed were trillions of dollars of investments and other economic accomplishments, Mr. Trump called the issue of affordability, quote, a fake narrative and a con job created by Democrats to dupe the public. Quote. They just say the word. He said it doesn't mean anything to anybody. They just say it affordability.

You know, again, there's not a consultant in the world who would tell the President to say this. But the President's going to say what he's going to say. Here's a little bit of this on camera, please.

116C.

[James Patterson]

But our prices now for energy, but for gasoline are really low. Electricity is coming down and when that comes down, everything comes down. But the word affordability is a Democrat scam.

[Mark]

They say it and then they go.

[James Patterson]

On to the next subject and everyone thinks, oh, they had lower prices.

[Mark]

No, they had the worst inflation in.

[James Patterson]

In the history of our country.

[Mark]

Okay. There's a Democratic research firm called Navigators that is really one of the best in the country and they produce high quality work. They do a lot of corporate work. But they're in their partisan. But they're very, very good. And they did a big focus group and I want to show you some of it. 117A. Because it's right on point to how people are feeling about the economy. Headline focus group report Working Class Americans and the Affordability Crisis. And this is released this morning. It's a lot of voters across the board across the country and some Republicans, some Democrats, et cetera. Let's look at some of the findings from this focus group. 117B. Participants are struggling mightily to afford the basics like dog food or energy. They see no real sign of the situation improving. The wealthy are seen as benefiting from a rigged system. Politicians are seen as out of touch. Many view President Trump as particularly out of touch with his ballroom project as key evidence. Health care is seen as a common sense solution. Universal health care. People are reporting deep economic pain and feelings of helplessness. Here's some quotes from individual voters 117C.

I think the economy is going to tank because we all lose health care starting in January and most of us like me. I'm going to lose it in January. What is going to do to the economy? People can't afford to buy anything now. It's going to just kill it. That's a soft Democrat from New Hampshire. Let's look at two, please.

I'm scared. I'm scared. I'm scared of losing our health care, of him not getting the care that he needs and me not being able to provide for my family, even though I went to school and got a career to do so. That's an independent from New Hampshire. One more 117F.

I find everything is higher priced around here. I find work, but I'm looking for higher paying jobs. That's been very discouraging. Unemployment's up higher than it's been in four years and I don't see it getting better. Again. Another weak Democrat from Michigan. And then a bunch of quotes about this is G, please. A bunch of quotes about the president being out of touch in the view of voters. We have someone who was born with a silver spoon in their mouth. I'm an independent. How about a ballroom? A billion dollars? How much was it, 5 billion, 3 billion or something? Do we really need a ballroom? That's from a Maine independent. You get the point. People are hurting. And yeah, if you were advising President Trump and he just continues to say affordability is a scam, what would you tell him?

[Yemisi Egbole]

I tell him not everybody grew up like he did. And so affordability is a real word. He's never had to think about the cost of anything. It's interesting looking at the remarks from those folks because this is what I thought from the moment he came down the escalator all those years ago is how is this man who comes from a very privileged background, who's only lived in places like New York City, going to relate to the everyday American and look, credit where credit is due. He has done a pretty good job of figuring out some kind of way for the everyman to believe that he is the everyman. But it almost feels kind of like the buck is stopping here. And the east room renovation, the East Wing renovation, is the tipping point. And I would say, you know, maybe we don't have to gold plate every single thing and some things are fine as they are and we don't do a big renovation when the economy is faltering.

[Mark]

Kristen, you worked for Governor Youngkin, who's not as rich as Donald Trump, but pretty rich. But you dressed him in vests or maybe he just chose his own vest, but he went to supermarkets and he seemed not to a lot of voters, at least to be out of touch. We'll never know if he could win reelection because Virginia has a crazy law where you can't run for reelection as governor. But same question to you. Like, I know Republicans are frustrated that the President won't focus on this. He won't focus on this. I mean, he just never, that's not his thing. But what can Republicans do independent of the President to demonstrate that they're not out of touch and that they care about affordability and they don't think it's a scam or a hoax, right?

[Kristen Davidson]

Well, you know, you have to humanize affordability. You have to personalize it because at some point, you know, everyone's cost of living is different and hitting success is different for everyone. My idea of living comfortably is a lot different than the person in the room next to me. So we all have different ideas. And so there's never one standard where it's good enough. And so that's one thing that Governor was able to do when he ran it was going to the supermarkets, literally checking out people at the counter saying, you know, I'm here with you. I see, wow, that price eggs is too high, let's get it down. And you know, I, I think that we're, you know, what Trump said on face value is you kind of step back. But when you hear what he's saying, he's right. He's, he's saying the word itself. To shout the word is not enough. And that's what he was able to do. Why so many people when he came down the gold escalator, you know, flocked to him because he went to where they were, he went to their small towns and he talked about the issues that they cared about. And that's what Governor Yankin was able to do too, where you, you hear a leader, someone running and, and say, wow, they care about the problems that I'm facing, so, so I'm going to trust them to fix them. And so now I think we have to do, you know, even the President, he hasn't really been out on the road that much. He's been a lot of, you know, a lot of foreign policy. I think if we see him, I predict he gets on the road either to Wisconsin, Michigan or Pennsylvania in the next five days, week or so. And I think you see him go back to some of those blue collar areas to Talk about cost. And sure, he'll talk about, you know, 100 million other things, but to make those points and to go back to where they are, they're just feeling a little bit forgotten. And that was most surprising about this poll to me is that, you know, that was what he was so good at. So all Republicans now running. It's not enough to just say we care about affordability. Go into your community and find what the issue is. Groceries are the easiest way to do that because it's something that affects everyone every day. But gas, you do a number of other things.

[Mark]

Yeah. See, a lot of Republicans I talk to are really focused on State of the Union now. They want to see policy develop. They want to see a big speech. In the olden days, the President would go on the road, they'd leak stuff in advance of the State of the Union. They'd do the speech, they'd go on a road trip. Road. The cabinet would go out most the last two presidents, the current one, and President Biden got a little bit away from that. Is that, is that an old fashioned thing because we communicate in different ways or would the Trump people be smart to build a lot around State of the Union?

[Kristen Davidson]

They should build a whole tour. I mean, if I'm the, I mean, I think it's get on. I'm old fashioned. I think, you know, he drives news and he drives headlines when he's out in front of a camera. And I think the problem has been is that the camera that the country is seeing is him sitting in the office every day and talking about things that like, that they don't care about. I mean, yeah, I mean, Somali and that stuff, it affects. And the base gets riled up. But like, to the average American, it would probably be really good to see him, you know, in a.

Suburb of somewhere.

[Mark]

Back in McDonald's.

[Yemisi Egbole]

Yeah, back in McDonald's. Back in the, in the garbage truck.

[Kristen Davidson]

Right.

[Yemisi Egbole]

I mean, that was, that was a good play when he goes like on site. It's a much stronger play, you're right, than when he's like behind the Resolute desk for like three hours. And a lot of times I think the affordability word is losing a lot of its meaning. The same with socialism. It's like if we scream these words all the time, but there's, there's no actual do outs from any of it. It's like, what, what really does socialism mean? And people aren't going to vote for the other guy just because you say socialism is bad. So, you know, you know we also.

[Mark]

Haven'T seen him do no garbage truck, no McDonald's, no. No bro podcasts. Like, you know, go on a bro. You podcast and talk about affordability. All these things are being talked about by allies of the White House. Not clear to me whether the White House is interested in them. You talk about images of the president. Yesterday on this program, Hogan and Ashley both took the over when I said, how long would the cabinet meeting be? 90 minutes. They both took over, and Hogan said, I'm taking the over because the president wants to seem vigorous because that New York Times story got under his skin, saying, you know, he's old and he's tired and he's lost a step. So the Cabinet meeting went on for quite some time, but also it went on quite some time with this, the president dozing 115. Watch closely. Again, if you're watching on the. If you're listening on the podcast, you're not gonna see this, but the presence you'll see. He's closing his eyes. Now, as someone who's fallen. You can kill the audio. As someone who. As someone who's fallen asleep on live television and on live radio interviews, I'm very. I'm very sympathetic to this. The staff should give him a Diet Coke. But again, if you're just listening, you're not watching. He's doing the thing you do when you're super tired. Now, the night before, he was up till like one in the morning on Truth Social and then back on Truth social at like 5 in the morning. So is he tired? I think he's just got bad sleep hygiene. I don't think it means he's falling apart physically. But. But this is, you know, this shouldn't be. Particularly. Again, if Hogan was right that he wanted to use the Cabinet meeting to show what his predecessor called the vega.

Is this. Is this something you look at those pictures and say, like, those should be in a Democratic ad mocking him or no big deal or what?

[Yemisi Egbole]

I mean, they might throw some Biden stuff back at us. So I don't really know what the net positive there is. I would say the room is small. There's tons of people in it. It's incredibly hot. And the meeting is going on for close to two hours.

[Mark]

Yeah.

[Yemisi Egbole]

Anyone stays awake. Everybody on the Cabinet is going to stay awake because they've been working on this pitch all week long because they knew the meeting was coming. This is the. Their time before the President. But for him, this is just another day talking in front of the media for a couple of hours. So it makes sense. He kind of spaced a bit.

[Mark]

Kristen, you ever staff anybody who falls asleep in a meeting on camera?

[Kristen Davidson]

Yes, but you do need, you know in advance when they're going to do it. So you don't set them up to be in front of camera. Like, that's staff. If you know that this is like the fifth time that that's happening, don't put in the situation. Don't have the cameras there.

[Mark]

I totally agree. Or. Or shorten it. Or get him a Diet Coke. I mean, I've, like I said, I've fallen asleep on television, but not while I was drinking a Diet Coke. There was no, like, Jerry Lewis thing where I'm dribbling the Diet Coke down my shirt because, like, even I can't fall asleep drinking a Diet Coke. And the man likes Diet Coke anyway. Worth watching because I don't think the President's going to like that video on this show or anywhere else. Fed Chair. The President says he's made his choice. Rather than doing announcement in December now, he says it'll be early next year. The Wall Street Journal, two days running, have said it's going to be Kevin Hassett, the head of the National Economic Council. The President says there's one choice then. He also said in the Cabinet meeting that Kevin's one of the candidates. So you don't need to be a master logician to say that it's probably Kevin. A lot of sources of the Journal are saying it is. He does have opposition. There are people who do not want it to be Kevin Hassett, I can tell you that. Who? Some like him personally, but don't want it to be him. And the market seemed fine with Kevin Hassett. The President, I think I know based on my reporting, President wants his person there. He doesn't want to pick someone who doesn't know. He doesn't want a Comey rerun or. What's the name of the guy there now? Jay Powell rerun. So, Kristen, does it matter who he picks? Like the White House and the Wall Street Journal and Bloomberg spend so much time on this, but from a policy point of view or a PR point of view, voter point of view, does this matter as much as some people seem to think?

[Kristen Davidson]

Not directly. I think, you know, watching all the different members of the economic, you know, advising group, Kevin was clearly auditioning for this for months. I mean, he was on every single TV show. He was doing a great job. I mean, I don't say there's a negative. And he is someone that is clearly going to do what the president wants. So in that sense, yes, because we're going to see policy changes that will then, you know, affect PR and the voters and things like that. But the actual pick itself, I don't, I think if you walk out on the street and ask someone who the Fed chair is, they couldn't tell you.

[Mark]

Yeah. While you answer, pop up Morning Joe because Roger Marshall is talking about health care, which is our next topic. And we don't see a lot of Republican senators on Ms. Now. So while we pop that up, thoughts on the Fed chair.

[Yemisi Egbole]

He doesn't need aides and experts to give him the right choice. He wants the person who is like proven to be very loyal and good at the do outs. And so I mean this Jay Powell thing has been such a headache for him. It makes sense he chooses to somebody who's a bit of a yes man.

[Mark]

Yeah. Okay. Let's listen to Roger Marshall, Republican of Kansas. We heard Secretary of Defense Hegseth offer his explanation. Different topic. We'll see what he says on this. What happened? You voted for, you voted to confirm.

[Joshua]

The secretary back in, in January. Your, some of your Republican colleagues have called into question what happened there. We know there's going to be investig, you know, some hearings on the Hill.

[Mark]

In the next couple of days and closed door testimony.

[Joshua]

Do you still believe Secretary of Defense Hegseth is the right man for the job? What concerns, if any, do you have about what you learned about the September strike?

[Mark]

Yeah, I stand beside Secretary Hegseth. You know, I'm reminded of something President all right, dump out of this. Anyway, he was on, he was on earlier to talk about health care. There's bipartisan talks in both the House and the Senate on health care to see if they can get a deal before Christmas. I've long said this is a fantasy. That's not the way healthcare policy works. And there's also attempt to get a discharge petition. Again, there's no time for a discharge petition. So to either Are either of you bullish on the prospect of a bipartisan health care deal, let's say before January 20th, because I can't imagine it's going to happen before January 1st. Are either of you bullish on a bipartisan health care deal?

[Kristen Davidson]

Not before January 20th.

[Mark]

So what's going to happen to the subsidies?

[Kristen Davidson]

I think that the best thing that we can, I mean, I think they're going to try and punt it again. I mean, without the, without Trump or, you know, someone stepping up to bring everyone together to have that deal. I think there's going to be an arrangement to try to punt to, then work through it for the next few months. But I don't see how we're talking about decades of opposition on critical infrastructure in American health care. I mean, we're not. This is not just like a tax rate or, you know, we're talking like, literally changing the infrastructure of how healthcare works here. And so I don't see it getting, I mean, I see it getting done in two months. I do think they'll try to punt.

[Mark]

The subsidies, but even, even, even punting the subsidies is hard because, because of abortion in the House. So it's not even clear to me how they're going to. That they could get any kind of extension. You ever see. Do you think they'll see. We'll see any, any sort of deal. Small, medium, large?

[Yemisi Egbole]

No. Congress is like a poor student, always ill prepared, asking for more time.

[Mark]

Yeah, all right, we'll see what happens. All right, a couple more topics and then to your questions, please raise your hand. If you're here on the platform, you want to get in the conversation. As I said in the daybook, Putin's meeting with Witkoff and Kushner was inconclusive, according to the Russians. Not a ton of reading out from the US side. Marco Rubio on Fox last night basically said, you know, it's up to Putin. We got to see what happens. But he's right. Here's the BBC headline. Kremlin signals no Ukraine Breakthrough. After Putin talks with us, Rubio, you know, said, you know, if Putin wants a deal, there'll be a deal. But he's right that we are closer to a deal. The world's closer to. Ben. The Europeans continue to be unhappy. Yemen see on this one, bullish, bearish. Do you see a deal coming together or no?

[Yemisi Egbole]

No, I don't. And I think they should really hurry it up because I think the American people are getting foreign policy fatigue hard. I mean, I know both of these countries are tired, and obviously the populations within them are in a much tougher situation than we are. But, I mean, it is just getting really, really hard for people in America to care and be as sympathetic about Ukraine as we once were.

[Mark]

Kristen?

[Kristen Davidson]

Yeah, I agree 100%, you know, and it's just so off brand. I mean, Trump was, you know, that's where you see this disgruntled vein. And with some of the people in the base because they just want to focus on domestic. And Americans, I think they're getting fatigued with all the deals now. It's two different. I mean it doesn't have to be just the White House or Trump. I mean like have someone step up either in Congress, like other people need to step up and focus outside of it. But I don't see it coming together. I think Putin doesn't want it. It doesn't seem like he wants it. Without him at the table, I don't see it happening.

[Mark]

Okay, and then does the US Walk away?

[Kristen Davidson]

I think so. I just think that, I mean I thought Trump was going to walk away three months ago. He just seemed like he was washing his hands of it. And frankly he's getting so much heartburn, you know, within the party on it. I mean it's just there's no upside for him now. I mean for the world there's upside for sure. But I just think right now the fatigue, there's just not a whole lot of moral, you know, encouragement to keep going.

[Mark]

Okay, one more topic and then to your question. So again if you want in the conversation, please raise your hand. So I think that Secretary Hagseth is out of the danger he was in, at least for now. This as was reported by Hans Nichols here on two way to night last night, the signal gate report by the IG has gone to the Secretary's office and it's going to the Hill in a, in a classified version and there'll be a redacted version. So there may be some peril for him there. We don't know all the facts of what happened in that strike, that so called double tap strike. But yesterday, between the New York Times reporting about the chronology of the Secretary's involvement and the Secretary's strong embrace from Donald Trump in the Cabinet meeting and, and his own chronology if you believe, you want to believe the sort of the best case it's possible that Secretary Haigstead said do the mission. He didn't monitor every decision that was made. The inline commander did. And the inline commander was not trying to kill those two people allegedly he was trying to destroy the ship and they were killed along in that mission. That chronology is plausible now we haven't seen everything. We don't know everything. Here's a, here's something on Tweet a tweet 111 a please. I forgot to remind myself to look up who Chris Maher is. Does anybody somebody tell me.

[Yemisi Egbole]

Oh yeah, he work in the, he used to work in the Biden White House and then he moved over to the, to the DoD to be a spokes.

[Mark]

So he's an experienced official. Here's what he tweeted. A very simple solution for Hegseth and quote, the most transparent Pentagon ever would be to lay out in detail what exactly happened when and on what authority. It's absolutely possible to do that, and it hasn't happened yet. Which begs the obvious question why? It's true. There are still some details not known. 1 detect some of the details may become known tomorrow when Mr. Bradley, Admiral Bradley, goes to Capitol Hill and speaks to members of Congress about his role. The White House continues and Secretary Hegseth continues to say Bradley did this, but what he did was just fine with them. Here is Mark Warner. I think the embassy knows Mr. Warner. Warner or your former boss. Here's Mark Warner, Democrat senator from Virginia who's a key player on intelligence and national security issues, saying on Morning Joe what answers he would like to hear from Admiral Bradley. 112 please.

I'm going to want to get answers on what did PDXF order? Why haven't we seen the whole unedited.

[Joshua]

Video if there's nothing inappropriate here?

[Mark]

You could have cleared this up without the admiral coming in.

[Joshua]

He's got a great reputation.

[Mark]

I respect him.

[Joshua]

I want to get the truth.

[Mark]

And I'm not sure we've had the truth from Hegseth yet.

[Joshua]

Remember, this is an administration that has.

[Mark]

Treated the uniformed military with unprecedented disrespect when they were all brought to get a pep rally in front of Hegseth and Trump.

[Joshua]

This is an administration that's fired, you.

[Mark]

Know, uniformed generals from the head of the nsa, the head of the Defense Intelligence Agency, and I think in many.

[Joshua]

Ways the uniform military may help save.

[Mark]

Us from this president and his lame people like Hegseth because I think their.

[Joshua]

Commitment is to the Constitution and obviously not to Trump. And I expect Bradley to adhere to that.

[Mark]

So there's a profile of Bradley in the New York Times today. It's pretty good. An interesting career. Been a very low profile guy. Not clear if he'll speak publicly tomorrow, although I talked to one Capitol Hill source who says they don't expect to hear anything from him publicly. So, Yemen, regarding Secretary Hegseth Bradley, Admiral Bradley, and this is General Story. What are you looking for next?

[Yemisi Egbole]

I'm looking to see where people place the ultimate blame here. I mean, I think the president has really pushed it off to Hegseth. You figure this out and deal with it. And him deferring to Hegseth a lot in the cabinet meeting, which he usually doesn't do, says that this is really going to be all in his camp it's going to be interesting to see where the members lay the blame. And I don't think someone, you know, someone like Senator Warner is not going to place it on the Admiral. He's going to hold the responsibility to Hegseth. But I think the admiral is going to have to, is going to have to really make the case here for why he did the second hit.

[Kristen Davidson]

Kristen, I'm going to be watching if they can, if he, Seth and team can lay this out in a transparent way to calm Republicans. Because I mean, you know, privately and internally I think you see, you hear some folks saying, oh come on, like just fix it, like make it like you're not handling it the right way. And a lot of these just are self inflicted. Like just put it out there, be transparent. That was a great point. And you've seen that I think, you know, in a few other things that it's almost like the, the handling is worse than whatever the allegation is. And so I'll be curious to see how, you know, they need to be very tight, very succinct and very, you know, clear as to what's happening. No ambiguity. And I think that will help Republicans rally around Hegseth and team and I think it'll help this go away.

[Mark]

Okay.

[Yemisi Egbole]

I don't think he gets fired either.

[Mark]

Yeah. All right. Well, to that point we've got what John McLaughlin would call mandatory exit. Question, yes or no. Yes or no. Is there anything that could be in the signal gate report that would cause Hexeth to lose his job? Anything if it said he moved sensitive classified information improperly to signal and endangered American lives? If the IG found that. Is there anything yes or no? Yemen. Say no, Kristen.

[Kristen Davidson]

No.

[Mark]

The correct answer is no. You're both right. All right, quick word from another sponsor then to your questions. Please raise your hand if you're here in the platform would like to be in on the conversation. I'll remind her. Although I do not read the chat, I glance at it. No smack in the chat. Either here on the platform or on yeah2ways YouTube channel. Please, no smack in the chat. Hogan isn't here. But an honor of Hogan. I'll remind you that right now you can get $10 off your first order and free shipping from the good folks at poncho. Ponchooutdoors.com 2wmm $10 off Poncho has you covered. Denim jeans, the flannels. Hogan likes the kind of the well fitting shirts because he's not in the gym all those hours to Wear something that's not well fitting and their stuff just fits great. Hogan and I can both tell you it just, it all fits right. It's got great style, comfort, performance. Again, go to ponchooutdoors.com 2wmm they give you free shipping, free returns, free exchanges to make sure you get the right fit. They have a great pricing sizing chart on there though, so you'll likely not have to return a thing. Poncho stands by every shirt. They'll make it right. If it's not your favorite, again, go right now to poncho outdoors.com 2wmm Ladies and gentlemen, it's time for your questions for our two fantastic guest co hosts. Brennan, welcome in. Tell folks who don't know where you are and what's on your mind for Kristen and Yemisi. Hello, I'm calling in from Rhode Island.

[Kristen Davidson]

I have a two part question.

[Mark]

Which executive branch agency has the Trump administration got the most control over? I know in the first administration, a lot of times they would just ignore his orders and wait him out. So I'm wondering on that and then in relation to that, which, like third or fourth level staffer, I'm thinking people like Eldridge Colby is really making an impact in their respective agencies. All right, so the first one is easier in the sense that it's objective. You're saying of all the agencies and cabinet departments, which one is the most wholly owned subsidiary of the White House? Right. Correct. Okay, let's answer that one, Kristen.

[Kristen Davidson]

I think all of them. I mean, right now, I just, I think that the people this time around, the administration is, you know, they've already been through it the first term with defectors, they were not tolerating it this time around. So I think everything from the FBI to DOJ to dhs, I mean, literally every branch or every department is in lockstep, which is frankly what you need. I mean, that's how leaders can be effective.

[Mark]

Would you say even HHS is in lockstep? Yeah, there's a little, there's a little loosey goosey over there. Yemen. Would you single out one as being particularly under the thumb of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue?

[Yemisi Egbole]

I mean, the Department of War, they're the only ones that changed their name. So that might be the most in lock step I've ever seen. Also because his detractors from the first administration, a lot of them were military personnel. So it's interesting to see his biggest supporters now being the Department of War.

[Mark]

All right, I hate to, I hate to do a drop, Mike. Moment. But I think I got you both beat. It's the State Department because the National Security adviser is the Secretary of State. He doesn't even go to the State Department anymore, practically. So I'd say the State Department. And then number two, Brennan's second question, a little trickier because he said third level. So the question is, who's third level?

You guys have. Either of you have a candidate for somebody who's not necessarily super visible, who's. Who is in fact super influential.

[Kristen Davidson]

Yeah, I think I. I'm not going to. I don't think he's third level, but I think Dan Driscoll over at Department of War is that higher than that. But he's just slowly maybe leaving from three to two levels.

[Mark]

Yeah.

[Kristen Davidson]

Really up and leading. And so that would be one, I think.

[Mark]

Yeah, that's a good one. Yemen.

[Yemisi Egbole]

All I can think of is the OMB director.

[Mark]

Yeah, I'd say Harmeet Dhillon, who's the head of the Civil Rights Division at the Justice Department, is super influential and very well liked the administration. She seems to have a fair amount of both sway and independence under the circumstances. Brendan, two great questions. Thank you for that. Tell folks how you learned about two way.

[Kristen Davidson]

After the election.

[Mark]

I was just consuming any and all post election material I could find and.

[Kristen Davidson]

You popped up on YouTube.

[Mark]

Suggestions. Yeah. And if the president saw you on the program and called you up and said, brennan, should I be doing different on the economy, what would you tell him?

I tell him to increase supply in whichever way he deems fit. Supply of anything or you got something in mind in particular? I would say gas, because that affects everything. Yeah. Okay. More gas. Brennan, thank you. Really appreciate you joining. All right, moving on.

Joshua's holding up a sign which I can't read, but it intrigues me. Oh, baby and puppy. Joshua knows the rules. Joshua, unmute, but put up or shut up. Let's see. Not just a piece of paper. Let's see the baby and the puppy, please. I see photos, but I want to see. Or was that just a bluff?

[Joshua]

That was absolutely a bluff.

[Mark]

And it.

[Joshua]

And it clearly worked.

[Mark]

All right, Joshua, I've got to subtract points for lying, but give you points for gumption. Great.

[Joshua]

Thank you very much.

[Mark]

That.

[Joshua]

That leaves me even, you know, the Hegseth issue. It seems to me that, that we've already been through four, I think four excuses at this point. Four excuses. The first one was that it was fake news and it didn't happen. I think the second one, the second excuse was, oh, hell yeah. We kill narco terrorists and that's what we do. And we're gonna put out a Franklin meme.

I think then it was self defense, and now it's. Apparently the second strike was because the boat was a hazard to other vessels.

Now it's not Hegset's fault, it's the admiral's fault. And I, you know, it's.

I, I'm not defending, I'm not defending narco terrorists. I would never defend narco terrorists, but I will defend the rule of law.

And I just, and I, and I just think it's, it's absolutely absurd the amount of chaos that this administration engages in. I would have no problem with.

You know, with anything that we're doing in the Caribbean. Not anything, just sort of hyperbole. If, if we would only get congressional authorization to do so. We don't need a declaration of war, but we do need some sort of aumf.

And now what have we done with Venezuela? Have we have. I mean, has Trump declared a no fly zone over Venezuela?

[Mark]

Essentially, only on social. Only on social media. Kristen. Kristen will tell you true, social is not real life. Right.

[Joshua]

How far away is a Trump truth from a Trump policy?

[Mark]

Yeah, sometimes they're indistinguishable. Joshua, you've raised literally 100 issues there. I'm not being hyperbolic. Really important constitutional issues, political issues, PR issues. And I'll let my colleagues address them first and then I will. But I don't, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not saying that to be critical. I'm saying you've raised a bunch of really important stuff. And, and I appreciate any opportunity we have here to have debates about these issues because they're too little discussed. These are serious, serious stuff. And one issue, of course, is Congress. Absolutely. For 50 years, giving up its constitutional. Not just obligation and Right. But responsibility to, to follow the Constitution and be the one in charge of war making. So Yemen. See, first you can pick up on any of the 100 things.

[Joshua]

I mean, it's politically convenient.

[Mark]

Right.

[Joshua]

It's politically convenient for Congress to do so because they don't have to run on anything that they do.

[Mark]

Correct.

[Joshua]

They can run on, you know, against the president.

[Mark]

Yeah. Okay. So again, you can pick any of the hundred. You wish.

[Yemisi Egbole]

I will say, I think Democrats are constantly in the cycle of Trump does something egregious, Dems get outraged, lots of speeches on the floor. Trump ends up doing what he said he was going to do in at the top of the day. And so Jeffries not Really being interested in bringing articles of impeachment to the floor and saying he's not even going to go in that direction when it comes to Hegseth because he already knows that Johnson is not going to bring the articles of impeachment to the floor. He already knows that Johnson is going to follow whatever Trump wants to do. And so for this whole situation with Venezuela, with the boats, to me it is Trump doing something absolutely ridiculous. But Dems having no real positioning power here. I just think we're going to see floor speeches for the next week. There's going to be a classified briefing with members, they'll exit, they'll go to the reporters and go, what we learned is very concerning or we really need to follow up on next steps. And then I don't think anything actually happens out of this.

[Mark]

Kristen.

[Kristen Davidson]

I agree. I mean, just for the political theater part of it, Dems do get find themselves in a trap where it's always outrage, outrage, outrage, nothing. You know, that's kind of Trump, Trump's game with them, I think. But this debate just in general is valid and it's not new. So we've been having, I mean, go back to just the Iraq war and the Bush administration and then, you know, many, many years before that. This has constantly been a intellectual tension between, you know, folks who are on the more libertarian side, more, you know.

Pro hard defense, I mean, Democrat, Republicans. So this debate will go ongoing. I don't know the right answer to it. I think that every situation is different. But I do think this is a new phase of that debate. Right. That we saw that we had, I mean, frankly that we had when Obama was using drones in the Middle east during his. So literally every president has this tension, which is good and healthy. I think we need that, you know, check on power and back and forth. But ultimately the president's job is to keep the country safe. And so having the debate is important and I think helps keeps us going in the right direction. And I think we'll, I don't know the answer where we'll unfold here, but I do know this is the next kind of phase of that.

[Mark]

Joshua, I'll resist my urge to address all 100 issues you raised and just say this. I'm for the facts and the truth and I'm for constitutional order and I'm not for war crimes. But and your, your characterization of the stages of Pete Hegset's explanations is absolutely right. And it's, on the face of it, it's clear those explanations are not consistent in the sense of they've changed. He's emphasized different things. But I will say that based on the reporting of the New York Times, based on what the secretary said yesterday, and based on all other available facts, everything he said is us is arguably true. It's not definitely true, but there's nothing that contradicts any of his four explanations if you want to give him the benefit of the debt. So when he says this Washington Post story was fake, he wasn't saying there was no second strike. He was saying their characterization of his role was not accurate. And if you look at the Washington Post, the New York Times reporting, and you look at the Secretary's partial chronology yesterday, the Washington Post story, its emphasis, the way the Washington Post story was framed was, would not be accurate because the Washington Post story suggested that it was his order that caused the admiral to do the second tap. And that's. That's not currently contradicted by what we know. So all I'd say is I'm for holding all government officials accountable. I'm not saying the secretary has been a model leader on this. We just don't know what the. All the facts are. But I think it's wrong to just go with the flow of saying he's lying about this and he's evading responsibility because we just don't know enough about how all this went down. And based on what he said so far, uncontradicted, he might have a better story to tell than he's told for himself so far.

[Joshua]

Sure. If I, if I may close with, with just by. By saying that, you know, the administration is very good with their, you know, strategic, strategically ambiguous statements. And I think, Mark, you would agree with that. And that's a political strategy that they've taken.

I saw a statistic where the Coast Guard said, which obviously drug interdiction is traditionally a Coast Guard function. The Coast Guard said that about 75% of.

The boats of the vessels that they stop are drug traffickers. Well, that leaves 25% that aren't drug traffickers, that might be illegal immigrants, that might be fishermen. And the Navy is not. The Navy is not equipped to do the mission of the Coast Guard. Right. This coming from Marine.

[Mark]

All right.

[Joshua]

The Navy is not equipped to do that mission. We can't just engage in extrajudicial killings.

If that's what's going on. I condemned it with Obama, and I condemn it.

[Mark]

Now.

Joshua, I share your sensibility about this, and I hope there's a big, robust national debate about it for this president and anyone else who wants to engage in this kind of activity. Thank you. Joshua. Ellen, welcome in. Thank you for being part of Two Way. Great to see you back. Tell folks who don't know where you are and what's on your mind for Yemeni and for Kristen.

[Yemisi Egbole]

I am in Scottsdale, Arizona and I kind of following up with what you guys were saying about Hegseth. The Wall Street Journal this morning had the article about Hegseth saying that the military, he wants to change the direction of the military being more confrontational, not having to worry about having to go to jail or court martial.

[Mark]

Really good story that summarizes his long running position on this stuff.

[Yemisi Egbole]

Yeah, so my thought is like, is that true? Is that an accurate description of what's happening in the military? Like when he brought in all of those generals and he did his big speech, you know, he talked about like.

[Kristen Davidson]

There'S going to be no beardos, no dudes in dresses.

[Yemisi Egbole]

But I really don't picture a bunch of corporal clingers like running around the military. So, you know, so now when I read that article I'm like, well, is that true? And so I was wondering if anyone knew.

[Mark]

Yeah. Ladies, either of you want to address that?

[Kristen Davidson]

I think there were definitely occasions where that was true. I don't think, you know, they have to have at least one. You know, you've seen reports of particularly I think where it was, you know, the most.

Most people got upset is when, you know, money went towards some of the, you know, if you were going through certain treatments, things like that that were very woke. I think when money got involved, people got very upset. So that was kind of the first, those first stories that that came, came up. But ultimately I, I do think in the last 10 years, you know, under, particularly under, you know, Obama and Biden, there was a, a different approach to the military, a softening if you will, just as a PR perception. And I think that that is more to what Hegseth is speaking to. It's kind of, I don't, it's kind of this alpha, you know.

General, which frankly for the military, you know, I, I don't see the problem with it. I do think that we were, you know, enrollment was down, recruitment was down. I mean the overall approach to the military under some administrations was not celebratory of the.

Strength that it needs. And so I think that globally that's what takes. That's talking about.

[Yemisi Egbole]

I think we'll have Fatty's back in the military. I think Hexa will be out in a couple years. And whatever culture change he's made will just reverse with the next president.

[Mark]

Ellen, I'll just say.

There'S been some, there's been some of that for sure, and there'll be more. But, but this question of rules of engagement. Super curious to see if we ever do see what the lawyer said about this particular mission because I just keep saying whether you're the secretary of defense or you're an admiral, you're not, you're not pulling the trigger on these things without, without a lawyer signing off on it. And I want to see, I still want to see what the lawyer said. It doesn't mean the lawyers are to blame, have all the responsibility, but they do bear a lot of the responsibility on the question of is it, is it legal? And then of course, the question is, do they do something different than what the lawyer authorized? And we'll just have to see. Ellen, grateful to you. Thank you.

[Yemisi Egbole]

Thank you.

[Mark]

Thank you for being on. Quick word for one more sponsor.

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[Yemisi Egbole]

That felt very anti GLP when you said without injection.

[Mark]

I'm very anti glp, to tell you the truth. I don't want to, I don't want to offend any members of the community who, who like having flabby skin on their faces. But I find it to be super, super questionable how much people are putting this. Now if you've got a health issue that requires you to lose weight, then of course, but if it's, if it's just for cosmetic purposes because you, you don't want to have discipline on your own. I just, I just see too many side effects of it. Do you guys not see that in people? You know, gastro issues, skin issues, you don't see that?

[Kristen Davidson]

I think there's, there's so there's more unknown. Right. I just feel like there's things we don't even know yet.

[Mark]

That.

[Kristen Davidson]

That's.

[Mark]

Yeah, yeah, but. Exactly. But. But there are unknowns we don't know yet. But I. I see knowns. I'd see knowns of people in my own life who just. I just. You know, I have a friend who also says, nothing feels.

Being thin feels better than anything tastes. I think that's what he says. Nothing. Nothing tastes as good as. Yeah, yeah, like that. Nothing. Nothing tastes as good as being skinny. Right. But. But again, just, you know, go to the gym an extra half an hour and stop eating processed foods and. And fake sugar and, you know, do it that way. It's possible. All this. All this. All this stuff is just. I don't know. You know, I just always go back to that episode of the Simpsons where it's in the future and somebody walks by, and these two. These two people have their eyes soldered shut, and they said, what happened to them? And they said, well, they got laser. They got late at LASIK surgery. You know, it's just like 50 years ago. It's just like. There's not enough known. Not enough known. All right, let's see if we can sneak Wickham in here before we go. Although Wickham seems to have left, and now there's an elephant there. Wickham, are you there? No, just the elephant. Beautiful animal. All right. No, Wickham.

Professor Kenny, you'll close us out with the benediction. There you go.

Hi.

[Joshua]

I wasn't expecting to come in. By the way, great cast right now. Really enjoying the show.

So I guess I'll go to Kristen for this one. So, Kristen.

Do you believe that there is any way Trump is going to be able to be convinced that he has to sell the American people that there is an affordability problem?

[Mark]

That's. That's what we call the $64,000 question.

[Joshua]

Yeah, I know. You got the answer, Kristen. Give everybody the answer.

[Kristen Davidson]

If. If that's the question. I. I don't think. I don't think so. I think you got to have to phrase the question to him differently and. And. And show him, you know, what he can do and get a positive return. I mean, I. I really do think they put him on the road in the next week or so, and he's there and everyone's cheering for him, and he feels like, you know, I think he's going to double down on lowering the price of groceries and Christmas gifts are going to be cheaper this year. And you can buy three instead of two. I think we'll see some of that.

[Joshua]

Yeah, he better do that next like six days because Christmas is around the corner.

[Mark]

All right, professor, grateful to you. Thank you for joining.

[Joshua]

Thank you.

[Mark]

Grateful to you. All right, let me tell you about a bunch of stuff coming up here on the two way platform.

Later today.

I got to look at my notes here. I don't have memorized. Folks. Citizen McCain at noon, Megan has a spectacular guest, one of America's leading voices on all matters. Thank you y for doing double duty. Y will join Chris Megan at noon Eastern Time. At 06:00 Eastern time, full coverage of everything that's happened between now and then. I'll be on Katie Balls of the Times of London with her extra posh accent. Sounds like a classier lady. Mary Katie Balls will join me. We'll talk about everything that's going on. And then right after two way tonight at six Eastern. Starting at seven Eastern. Our friend Bridget Fedesy is on. Here's a preview. Number four, please.

[Yemisi Egbole]

How much do you monitor your kids with tracking location software or cameras? Does it make them feel more secure knowing that you can always locate them.

[Kristen Davidson]

Or do they hate it?

[Yemisi Egbole]

Are kids today growing up with no, no expectation of privacy? How would you feel about letting your kids roam loose with no tracking the way we used to? Back in my day, we didn't have.

[Kristen Davidson]

Tracking devices in our pockets.

[Yemisi Egbole]

This week we're talking about parental surveillance with our guest, the great Lenore Skenazy, founder of the Free Range Kids movement.

[Kristen Davidson]

Join me, Bridget Fedesy on Real America, Wednesday, December 3rd at 7pm Eastern, 6pm Central.

[Yemisi Egbole]

We will be live discussing this. You can register to join the conversation at two way tv Brigid Zoom. Or you can simply watch the episode at Real America FY on YouTube.

[Kristen Davidson]

See you then.

[Mark]

All right, what she said again. Y with Megan at noon. I'll be on at 6 with Katie Balls and then Bridget at 6, 7 tomorrow morning on this program. 23 hours from now, Kristen will be back. We bid farewell for now to y and hi Ma Moore will be here joining Kristen guest co hosting. So we look forward to that. Thank you both. Kristen, see you tomorrow. Yemeni, See you at noon with Megan. Very grateful to you both for spending the hour with us.

[Kristen Davidson]

Thanks, Mark.

[Mark]

All right. And thank you all for watching, being part of the two way community. We'll see you tomorrow right here. Same bad time, same bad channel. If it's 9 o' clock Eastern Time, it's time for the morning meeting. Have a great day, everybody. I'll see you at six.