It's Trump vs Schumer and the Democrats as a Government Shutdown Tuesday Night Is All But Certain

Summary

2WAY Morning Meeting Podcast Summary

Episode: It’s Trump vs Schumer and the Democrats as a Government Shutdown Tuesday Night Is All But Certain
Date: September 30, 2025
Host: Mark Halperin with Sean Spicer and Dan Turrentine
Guests: Rachel Bade, Donald Trump (live remarks), audience callers

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Episode Overview

This high-energy episode of 2WAY's "Morning Meeting" captures the swirl of Washington on the eve of another government shutdown. With the clock ticking down, hosts Mark Halperin, Sean Spicer, and Dan Turrentine analyze the tactical maneuvers between President Trump, Senate Majority Leader Schumer, and congressional Democrats. The episode features exclusive reporting on closed-door White House meetings, the prospects for compromise, insights on Trump’s unpredictability as dealmaker-in-chief, and live commentary on the President's remarks to military leaders. The show also includes reactions from Washington insiders and grassroots Americans, painting a broader picture of the national mood.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The State of the Shutdown Showdown

• Competing Strategies: Both parties brace for a likely shutdown, but differ on whether to link healthcare issues (particularly Obamacare subsidies/premium assistance) to short-term funding.
  • Dan Turrentine calls for sequencing two votes: first a stopgap CR, then a healthcare vote with bipartisan Senate support (09:37).
  • Sean Spicer argues for compressing the timeline — a four-week extension (rather than the proposed seven) to keep negotiations alive, but not to mix in ACA fixes (10:22).
  • Mark Halperin notes the impasse, highlighting Schumer's fear of the Democratic base and reluctance to accept even short-term CRs (11:04).

Notable Quote

"Schumer is being led by the base. He is not leading the base whatsoever."
— Dan Turrentine (12:16)

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President Trump as Wild Card & Deal Maker

• Trump’s Position: According to exclusive reporting by Rachel Bade, Trump shocked GOP leadership by hinting he could strike a deal with Democrats on healthcare in the midst of the shutdown fight, a dramatic shift from the Republican stance of keeping issues separate (15:00–18:18).
  • He called Obamacare “expensive, shitty coverage” and mused, “What we should do is write a new health care program.”
  • Bade reports Trump’s meandering style leaves GOP leaders anxious, fearing he may break ranks to clinch a deal and brand himself as the ultimate negotiator (17:10).

Notable Quote

"President Trump is indicating that potentially he could make a deal. And last thing I'll say on this is... it just sort of indicates how much of a wild card this president is, right?"
— Rachel Bade (17:08)

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The Political Dynamics: Who Has the Upper Hand?

• Democrats' Dilemma: Schumer is boxed in—unable to make small concessions without alienating the party’s progressive base.
  • Bade notes the pressure will rise on Democrats if a shutdown drags out and the narrative shifts from healthcare to hardship — unpaid troops, closed parks, etc. She predicts Democrats' leverage will deteriorate as the “pain” of shutdown intensifies among the public (19:09–23:10).
  • Historical analogies are drawn to shutdown fights over Trump’s border wall and DACA/Dreamers—issues that proved problematic for whoever the public blamed for inaction.

Notable Quote

“As soon as the government shuts down and we start seeing the repercussions… the pressure on Democrats is definitely going to skyrocket and their ability to keep the focus on what I agree with you is a very potent issue for Republicans, ACA tax credits, that is going to be harder.”
— Rachel Bade (22:58)

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Republican Fortitude and the Trump Effect

• Testicular Fortitude?: In response to audience questions, Sean credits Trump for emboldening Republicans to stand and fight, ignoring negative press and refusing “business as usual” deals (51:18).
• Longer-term Uncertainty: Both Sean and Dan raise concerns about whether the party’s fighting spirit will persist post-Trump, with Dan noting similar grassroots frustration on the Democratic side over leadership not “fighting hard enough” (52:46–54:34).

Notable Quote

“Editorial boards used to scare the crap out of most Republicans… What you've seen now is they've become completely irrelevant.”
— Sean Spicer (52:08)

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Live: President Trump Addresses Military Leaders

• Trump’s Speech: Broadcast live, Trump opens with relaxed banter (“If you want to applaud, you applaud... if you don’t like what I’m saying, you can leave the room. Of course, there goes your rank, there goes your future.” 28:38) and boasts about rebuilding the military, changing names (‘Department of War’ and the ‘Gulf of America’), and reasserting American strength and purpose.
• Signature Moves: He touts his administration’s foreign policy achievements — recent Middle East ceasefire negotiations, Abraham Accords, and a willingness to challenge “woke” conventions in defense/military branding (28:38–34:22).

Notable Quotes

“We all have that oath, every one of us. I'm thrilled to be here this morning to address the senior leadership of what is once again known around the world as the Department of War.”
— Donald Trump (29:27)

“I have settled so many wars since we're here. We're here almost nine months and I've settled seven. And yesterday we might have settled the biggest of them all…”
— Donald Trump (32:42)

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Foreign Affairs & Ceasefire Diplomacy

• Gaza Ceasefire Deal: A quick pivot as CBS reports Hamas is likely to accept Trump’s Gaza ceasefire proposal.
  • Sean lauds the deal as “three-dimensional chess… one of those signature issues that if it's executed, could go down as one of those huge presidential moments.” (25:50–26:36)
  • Dan begrudgingly tips his cap to Trump and Kushner for brokering new ground, admitting “a lot of experts haven't been able to do for 50 years” (26:52).

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Public Pulse: Grassroots Perspectives

Karen (NH) (36:39–47:51)

• Calls in to represent “parents versus non-parents electorate,” emphasizing that future security, not just inflation or cheap goods, is driving political choices. Willing to endure short-term pain for long-term American revival.
• Key Quote:

  “When I am out with other moms... we are talking about... the world that they're going out into... like crime... phones... if someone comes out and tells me ... my husband and I have to get a second job... but we're going to fix it so when your kid gets out, he's okay. Done. I will keep voting.” (39:48)

• Prompted a host-wide endorsement for a hypothetical Senate run.

Kay (US Virgin Islands) (48:41–54:57)

• Veteran GOP staffer, demands to know why the party has “suddenly found its spine.” Both Sean and Dan credit Trump (and the moment), but question if the fighting spirit will persist post-Trump.

Stacey (North Florida) (56:11–59:25)

• Long-time Trump voter; dislikes some of his rhetoric, but backs the “agenda” and willingness to see through long-term reforms. Offers generational perspective: “I'm willing to withstand the pain if in the long run… things are not just going to turn around. This is systemic reform... I'm willing... for the long-term gain.”

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Additional Noteworthy Segments

• Book Sales Sidebar: Mark, Sean, and Dan guess how many copies Kamala Harris's new book will sell, ranging from 500,000–600,000 (34:22).
• NYC Mayor’s Race: Lively odds-making on whether Mondami will be NYC’s next mayor: Dan 80%, Sean 100%, Mark 75% (35:19).
• Anecdotes & Banter: The hosts weave jocular banter and audience participation throughout, maintaining a tone that’s simultaneously irreverent and deeply political.

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Key Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment/Highlights | |-----------|---------------------------------------------------------------------| | 03:34 | Mark sets agenda: shutdown, Pentagon, Kamala Harris, etc. | | 09:08 | Main shutdown discussion—possible solutions, political math | | 14:44 | Rachel Bade exclusive on White House meeting, Trump as wild card | | 28:38 | Trump speaks to military, touts strength, recounts name changes | | 34:22 | Book sales predictions for Harris | | 35:19 | Odds-making for NYC mayoral election | | 36:39 | Karen calls in: parents’ priorities, “pain for promise” politics | | 48:41 | Kay’s call: GOP fortitude, culture change, Trump’s leadership style | | 59:25 | Stacey: the “agenda over personality” case for supporting Trump |

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Memorable Quotes

1. On Trump as Deal Maker

   “He, you know, fashions himself as the ultimate dealmaker. And so perhaps instead of taking this tack that Republicans want him to take, he's going to be the one who wants to sweep in and say, look, we're going to solve this issue and make a deal.”
   — Rachel Bade (17:11)

2. On Shutdown Dynamics

   "The more we enter into a shutdown, the topic pivots from healthcare to what is immediately happening, the emergency. And that is the government being shut down... that helps Republicans, hurts Democrats."
   — Rachel Bade (19:42)

3. On GOP Boldness

   “Donald Trump has been the person who has shown them if you stand up and fight, you can win… I'm tired of people saying over and over again, well, you know, you just can't do it. It is what it is. It's not."
   — Sean Spicer (51:18)

4. On Grassroots Sentiment

   “We are okay with that. Like if someone comes out and tells me three or four years... but we're going to fix it so when your kid gets out, he's okay. Done.”
   — Karen (39:48)

5. On Trump’s Unpredictability

   “…it just sort of indicates how much of a wild card this president is.”
   — Rachel Bade (17:08)

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Tone and Style

• Candid, Combative, and Self-Aware: Hosts freely challenge and rib each other, interrupt, and amplify outside voices.
• Forward-looking and Analytical: Focus is both on what’s imminent (the shutdown) and the downstream effects of shifting political coalitions and strategies.
• Interactive and Inclusive: Frequent shout-outs to listeners, encouragement of audience participation, and relatable, granular stories from everyday Americans.

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Conclusion

With a shutdown looming, this episode offers an engaging, unvarnished look at the issues, strategies, and personalities at play: a president who relishes the role of disruptor, partisan leaders hemmed in by their bases, and a frustrated but mobilized electorate. While the drama of last-minute deals and public brinkmanship dominates, it’s the broader undercurrents — changing GOP attitudes, generational divides, and the evolving meaning of leadership and “fighting” for your base — that provide the deeper story.

Transcript

[Sean]

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[Dan]

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[Mark]

Five, my mom uses it.

[Dan]

Are you, are you playing me off? That's what's happening, right? Okay, give it a try.

[Sean]

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[Rachel Bade]

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[Mark]

Everybody, this is the morning meeting. Dan, Sean and I are here to take you through stuff and it's a little bit of a multi ring circus. Pete Hegseth has been talking to the assemblage of military leaders, US Military leaders from around the world and making news so fast we can barely keep track of it. The President spoke moments ago at the White House South Lawn on his departure for that event and he said some stuff there and hopefully we'll be able to turn that around and bring that to you. And then of course, the president this hour is scheduled to speak to that same assemblage and we plan to take you to that live as well. So lots going on. And guys, I confess, I was not able to listen to all of Secretary Hegseth, I know you weren't either. But Sean, from what you heard, from what you've seen, what's the news out of that?

[Sean]

I mean, I think it's just a, it's a mindset. It's talking about making sure that we're focused on war fighting, that we don't worry about gobs of training. And for those who haven't served, I mean, I will tell you that the amount of ridiculous training on the most petty things is now consuming a lot of time. And I think he's made it very clear that we're going to help get that out of the way, get it back to making sure that we're focused on war fighting readiness, giving commanders the ability to do things. So a lot of it is commander's intent. I'm talking about focus and goals and what's out, what's in that kind of stuff.

[Mark]

Damn.

[Dan]

I mean, I just, it's just ridiculous. But yep, that's it.

[Sean]

What part's ridiculous?

[Dan]

Why are you spending so much money to fly them in to have a pep rally? I mean, you can just put this is like the hundredth time that they've announced this. I mean it is, Mark. You laugh. No company would pay for this. To have that message delivered for the hundredth time, I just, they just.

[Mark]

True. I just don't think it's true. To deliver. Okay. To face message. I mean.

[Dan]

But Mark, it's not a new message. There's nothing new. You're reiterating for the hundredth time, we're a war machine. We're lethal. Like, you're not breaking anything new. You're paying thousands of dollars to fly somebody out of a war zone to come here to hear the same thing.

[Sean]

Okay, first of all, that's not, that's simply not true. That's simply not true.

[Dan]

What's not true?

[Sean]

Who's being flown out of what war zone? Name one. Name one senior official that was flown out of a war zone.

[Dan]

They flew people out of Western Europe who are supporting the war in Ukraine. There you go.

[Sean]

That's not a war zone. They weren't flying out of a war zone. You're. When you're, when you're at ucom, you're not flying. This isn't like flying out of Afghanistan in the middle of OEF or oif.

[Mark]

I'm calling time out to this fight that I started. In any event, Harris did this.

[Dan]

You all would be outraged and I would never see dollar figures on. On you.

[Mark]

Well, that's true. Can't dispute that. Anyway, we'll try to maintain our normal format as much as we can, despite the. The unusual circumstances under which we are gathering here today. I'd ask everyone now, as we do at the beginning of every program, to please lower your hair head in a moment of prayer. Just kidding. We'll get your questions. If you want to be part of the conversation, raise your hand. If you're here on the two way platform, if you're watching on X or YouTube, don't raise your hand. No smack in the chat. Peace, love and understanding for all. Presumption of grace extended to everyone. And we're going to talk about a bunch of stuff today. Much in the news, including the shutdown coming here and end of the day, probably a little bit more about, about the Pentagon meeting Kamala Harris, all sorts of things. So buckle in, strap on, get ready, be ready for all of it. First though, Dan's favorite part of the show. A moment from our sponsors. This morning's episode brought to you by lean. Takelean.com go to takelean.com right now. 20% off the entire site. Help you lose weight. Don't go with fad diets. People need help. Don't Weight cycle. Weight cycling is the worst thing. Dan doesn't know anything about weight cycling because Dan weighs the exact same he weighed in college. But the rest of us could use some help. What is what are the lean Take Lean products. Do they allow you to maintain healthy blood sugar, help you control appetite and cravings, and convert burn fat by converting it to energy? Everybody who needs to lose weight needs to do it the right way. These products allow you to do that. They're not a GLP injectable. They're developed by doctors, an oral supplement that can help you lose weight the right way. So right now go to takelean.com 20% off use the promo code mark again takelean.com 20% off promo code mark hi.

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[Mark]

All right. Daybook. A lot going on, as they say in the business. And the President is, as we said, headed over to Gateway. Pundit is the new media pool. I know you were wondering about that. The President's headed over now to Quantico, supposed to deliver remarks right about now. So we expect to see him during this hour. Then he comes back to the White House 11. He delivers an announcement to the pool in the Oval Office. Anybody know what that is?

[Sean]

He's officially declaring Yacht Rock the National.

[Mark]

Got to deliver an announcement of some sort at 11. And then he signs executive orders.

[Dan]

Three o'.

[Mark]

Clock, that's in theory, closed press. On the way to Quantico, the President said, I'm going to meet with generals and with admirals and with leaders and if I don't like somebody, I'm going to fire them right on the spot. Presumably kidding, but maybe not. And Vice President's I believe in D.C. but I don't know what he's doing. House is out, although they're around because we're headed towards the potential shutdown.

[Dan]

House Democrats are around, not House Republican.

[Mark]

Yeah. Yes, you're right, the speakers are out, but yes. Anyway, at some point today we expect the House Senate Republicans to try to put to another vote on the House passed measure that would forestall a government shutdown that is not expected to pass. 10:00 the House Democratic leaders hold a press conference on the steps of the Capitol. The caucus, House Democratic caucus meets at 12:15.

[Sean]

How many Dems do you think vote for that Senate Dems.

[Mark]

Exactly.

[Dan]

For the, for the House bill?

[Mark]

I think just veteran.

[Sean]

Has he said he's, he's. I don't know that he said it, but he's said it.

[Mark]

He's leaned that way.

[Dan]

I mean he's lean that way. I'll be curious if he does. Yeah, maybe two, but, but probably just one.

[Mark]

I think he's going to, but we'll see. Doesn't really matter because it's not going to be enough obviously to, to make it all the way there. So there's a couple other things.

[Sean]

Well I, by the way, I do think it does because A you can call it bipartisan and two, you can say now we're down to four, six Democrats or whatever. So I, I think it, it actually from a messaging standpoint does matter.

[Mark]

Yeah, I agree.

[Dan]

Yeah, no, I agree but I don't think they'll call it bipartisan. But I think it does allow the President to say look, there's a common sense Democrat who's out there saying just do it.

[Mark]

It just, it does, it doesn't matter in the following sense is there's still going to be a shutdown. Oh yeah, all right, we'll talk about that in a second. I'm looking for something, I wrote down something and now it's just disappeared. Crazy. Anyway, Kimmel is on Colbert and Colbert is on Kimmel tonight. Oh, and Kamala Harris's publisher announced that she sold350,000 in all format.

[Dan]

That's a big number.

[Mark]

That's a big number.

[Sean]

That's a legit number.

[Mark]

It's legit. Big number. And there's no indication that, you know, there were bulk sales like the dnc. So that's. We'll talk about that in a second.

[Sean]

Anyway, again, shove out a lot of money.

[Mark]

If you want to be in the conversation please, and you're here on the two way platform, please raise your hand. Let's start with the shutdown. And guys, let's be Forward looking. If you guys were the mediators, you were hired by the, the White House and the Democrats to be the mediators, what would you propose as a solution? Obviously would involve the Obamacare subsidies. Dan, what's the right way? Where's the splittable baby here? To get a deal?

[Dan]

I think you tee up two votes, you would tee up a CR and then within a few hours you would have the Obamacare vote and you would have whatever number of Senate Republicans because they don't trust Thune, they don't trust Trump. That would come forward and say publicly we are going to support this. So you know you have the 60 votes in the Senate and you know you have the votes in the House and you sequence them right after each other.

[Mark]

Sean has that sound too. And before you answer, Paul, do you like my audio better now?

[Dan]

Yeah, there you go.

[Mark]

Okay.

[Sean]

I didn't plug that microphone.

[Mark]

That was, it was crystal clear. I had a setting that was a little off. My apologies.

[Dan]

You were a little low.

[Mark]

Sean, what do you think of Dan's proposed solution there?

[Sean]

I'm going to reject the gentleman's proposal. I'm going to negotiate on time. So right now the current, the current deal is seven weeks to get you into November. I'll cut that time in half. If you agree to keep the government open for four weeks, we can continue to negotiate. That's plenty of time to talk about your ACA stuff.

[Dan]

And we trust you because.

[Sean]

You don't have to trust me. It's four weeks. We either get a deal or we don't. But at least we have four weeks to talk about your issue. Okay, I would negotiate on time. And the other thing is, remember, you got 12 bills. There are three that are pretty much should be close to ready to go. So you can get three of the 12 off the deck soon and then you're down to nine areas of government.

[Mark]

Dan, here's what's, here's what's a little confusing to me. And we try to always be forward looking, but I'm going to be backward looking for just a second in order to go forward. So Schumer, yesterday, I think before the White House meeting floated, maybe we can have a 10 day CR and figure this out. And the base was like, no, now you can't even have a 10 day CR. So then he came back from the meeting and said, absolutely not. Who would be for a 10 day cr? So if the base won't even accept that, and Schumer is terrified of the base, it seems like it's very hard to get any deal, including the one you proposed, because they won't, they won't do anything.

[Dan]

Well, right. I mean, and I'm not saying, and.

[Mark]

I'm not saying they're the only problem here. But, but from Schumer's point of view, how does he solve that?

[Dan]

That's why he would need the people to come out to say stuff publicly. Because the problem is the party says, look, we can't trust them. Between the rescissions and the constant kind of walking back of deals that we have made with them in just the last seven months. You cannot, to Sean's kind of concept, trust that there's any good faith from this administration to ultimately want to do it. Now, I do believe the administration wants a healthcare fix. I think they know the politics are bad. Their own polling shows it's bad. So I do believe that all politics is local. They do want a fix. But I think the problem is, again to your point, Schumer is being led by the base. He is not leading the base whatsoever. And I think they are saying hell no. And so he's going to have to find a way to give them some sort of confidence. I don't, I've said this a long time. I think he's a dead man walking.

[Sean]

All right, so I mean, look, I think this is a math thing to my point. Before you take shoot, you take Fetterman off. I don't know that you hold all the Republicans, by the way. I assume that Rand Paul's a no, but if you can, and then you start targeting them one by one and I would start to go in and look at like a New York and say to Gillibrand, I'll tell you what, there's five federal facilities in Albany. If you, every time you vote now, we knock off 100 employees off each or something. But you start to basically play hardball state by state.

[Dan]

Well, I think the flip is true too, on the health care stuff. The Dems are going to do the same thing.

[Mark]

Sean, where. Yeah, I agree with that. Sean, where's the, where's the forum for a deal? Is it going to be another in person meeting with the leadership or like where does it happen? Where does it happen now? Because I doubt an in person meeting is going to work.

[Sean]

No, I agree. I mean, I don't, I think this is like this is a Schumer Thune kind of deal. I think that the president's going to sit back and say, come to me when you've got something. Thune starts to cut a deal with, with Schumer, you know, who knows what that combination of the stuff that we've just thrown out fits in. But it's those are the two people who have to make this the House did their job. The president's going to take whatever they do, as long as it's not like anathema to the base.

[Dan]

I think, like watch Kennedy, Hawley, Graham, there are Republican senators that want an ACA fix and some of this is their own states are going to get just pulverized. And so I think if they can cut a deal, I think Thune would take it. If that's all it is, is just the ACA fix, it'll be short term because they don't want to extend the COVID stuff much more than a year or two. And they're going to keep kicking the can down the road. But I think it bubbles up and Thune says great, if that's if, if, if there's a if to keep his own members on board, I think they'll cut a deal. And I think the fact that Vance came out yesterday and said we're willing to talk about this tells you they know they need to fix this. Yeah, they know it all right.

[Mark]

Joining us now, queen of the shutdown media, Rachel Bade. Rachel has exclusive reporting to share about what happened yesterday and would love Rachel to hear your thoughts about what happens next. Thank you for joining.

[Dan]

I revise my remarks until Rachel speaks. Yeah.

[Rachel Bade]

Hey, guys, can you hear me? Just checking.

[Mark]

Yes, ma'. Am.

[Rachel Bade]

Yeah. So I've got some interesting news this morning. We are what now 15 hours out from a shutdown, and there seems to be some interesting divides that are percolating on the Republican side, which actually kind of surprises me. I would argue just at the top here that Republicans do have the upper hand here. And I know, Dan, you talk about, you know, the ACA subsidies and how that could be a vulnerability for Republicans. Well, technically, they're separate issues. So, you know, Republicans could say, look, we're going to focus on funding right now and deal with ACA later. But I'm told that in the White House meeting yesterday, Donald Trump, and I'm not just told this from a Democratic sources, but Republicans familiar with the meeting, too, that he sort of opened up a suggestion that he could make a deal and this is going to give GOP leaders a ton of heartburn. There was discussion for 15, 20 minutes where they went back and forth, Schumer saying premiums are going to start going up as soon as December. The president was surprised by that. He thought it wasn't until next year. They talked about, you know, whether they should even be tying this to the funding fight. But at one point, the president says, quote, nobody likes a deal. Nobody likes Obamacare. It's expensive, quote, shitty coverage. What should we do? What we should do is write a new health care program. And I'm told that Jonathan actually got visibly frustrated and sort of threw up his arms and said, this isn't about healthcare. Again, Republicans want to separate these two issues. Republican leaders do. But Trump responded by saying, like, I have these two in front of me. You know, healthcare is bad. We're arguing about premiums right now, and we should be arguing about a new health care program. And I asked this, this Republican source, I said, are you telling me that the president is willing to make a deal with Democrats on health care as part of this shutdown fight? And the person indicated to me that he was. Republicans on the Hill are going to hate this. I mean, they believe they're in the right. And I would argue that they have a pretty good argument in saying we are not going to reward Democrats for taking the government hostage by giving them a deal on something they want, even if we think, you know, we have to deal with it eventually. So that is. That's a huge change from the posture Republicans want to see. And I think it's also a big change from what Democrats have done in past shutdown fights. I think one of the reasons Democrats were so successful in the 2018, 2019 government shutdown that lasted 35 days was that they told President Trump he wasn't going to get a penny for his border wall. That's what he wanted. He wanted money to build his border wall, and they didn't give an inch on that. Ultimately, he ca the bulk of the blame here. President Trump is indicating that potentially he could make a deal. And last thing I'll say on this is it just sort of indicates how much of a wild card this president is, right? He, you know, fashions himself as the ultimate dealmaker. And so perhaps instead of taking this, this tack that Republicans want him to take, he's going to be the one who wants to sweep in and say, look, we're going to solve this issue and make a deal, so we'll just have to see. I mean, obviously this was one meeting and GOP were probably on the phone with him right away, like, walking us back. But anyway, it's just really interesting color meeting that hasn't been reported.

[Mark]

Great reporting. Thank you. Sean, comment on what Rachel said. Her question for I mean, to your.

[Sean]

Point, there's no question at midnight tonight we're shutting down. As we were kind of bantering about before though, the question is when and how. I sort of think that somehow the dam breaks towards Thursday, Friday and there's a, whether it's a ten day or four week deal. But that, that's the, that's the deal. Is that, I guess what I would ask you just in general is that do you think that's the most realistic outcome or is there another, another way.

[Rachel Bade]

Forward that, that there will be a shutdown and.

[Sean]

No. Well, that again, I'll just, I think we have to presume, if you presume that there will be one tonight. Yes, there I sort of thesis is rather short term. Thursday, Friday, Saturday. But that time is the, is the negotiating.

[Rachel Bade]

Yeah, no, definitely. I see. If you would have asked me this as recently as this morning before I had this pretty illuminating phone call, I would have told you that I thought this would last three or four days because I believe having covered Schumer for a very long time, that in his heart of hearts he probably doesn't love this and knows it's bad policy and probably feels like he has to do this to show the base that he is willing to fight. But as soon as Democrats are the ones to go on record and vote to keep the government closed, as soon as you have troops not being paid and forced to show up to work, of course, air traffic controllers, trash in national parks, government services being slowed and Democrats voting over and over again to keep the government closed, that becomes the story. Right now the story is about health care, tax credits. The more this drags on and the more we enter into a shutdown, the topic pivots from health care to what is immediately happening, the emergency. And that is the government being shut down, that helps Republicans, hurts Democrats. And I would think that eventually Schumer would sort of say, okay, we got it, we got to move on here. However, this information that I have this morning about the president sort of being curious about maybe making some sort of health care deal that is going to just give fuel to Democrats. They'll be more willing to sort of hold out for as long as he is suggesting that maybe they something could come.

[Sean]

Why no one ever wants those meetings to happen.

[Mark]

Yes, yes, Dan.

[Dan]

Well, I think though the one difference between 18 and now, I think Rachel, with your analogy is Trump wanted the wall, right? Just because he wanted the wall. If the wall wasn't built, you could argue like immigrants would obviously keep coming in with health care. The Issue is premium notices are going to start going out. I think it's November 1st. And Trump, being the ultimate marketing man, I think understands that if somebody gets a statement that their health care has gone up 95% and those are his people. Right. He doesn't like that because he always wants to win. It's easy. I got it. I think that that's like to your point, if Democrats make this about health care, that's all we're arguing over. Premiums going up 90% or not. It's a much. I think Trump is like, I don't want that headline.

[Rachel Bade]

I agree that Trump doesn't want that headline and that could very much work to Democrats advantage. But what I will say in, in past shutdown fights, basically, you know, it didn't really matter if the idea was popular or not. Go back to Ted Cruz, Obamacare was it 2013 wasn't particularly popular at that point. And yet because they shut the government down over it, there was a huge gust of blowback on Republicans. Go to fast forward to I think it was 2017, maybe 2018. There was a very brief shutdown where Schumer and Pelosi were demanding that President Trump basically put forward a pathway to citizenship for dreamers. There was some sort of court case that jeopardized DREAMER status here in the United States. And as part of the discussion about funding the government, Schumer and Pelosi were saying, you have to address this. At the time, it was like an 8020 issue. Probably still is an 8020 issue when it comes to dreamers in particular. But like they were so concerned about that that Schumer ultimately ended up folding and the government shut down for only six hours and they felt heat and blowback from that. So it's just, it's not that easy. I mean, it could be a popular policy issue. And I'm telling you, as soon as the government shut shuts down and we start seeing the repercussions of a shutdown, people not getting paid, people having trouble reaching the government about various services that they're expecting, the story shifts. And so, you know, the pressure on Democrats is definitely going to skyrocket and their ability to keep the focus on what I agree with you is a very potent issue for Republicans, ACA tax credits, that is going to be harder.

[Sean]

What about this getting rid of federal employees? I mean, the OMB memo, we discussed this the other day. I believe that it's maybe a little fluff on the edges, but they're really not going to have mass firings Is that consistent with what you're hearing?

[Rachel Bade]

Well, I mean, they're certainly threatening it. I don't know if it's I would say I'm not sure if it's just sort of a threat to try to get people to back down or whether they'll really do it. I mean, you know, Russ Vote, this guy is a conservatives, conservatives. I mean, he will take any authority you give him and just slash. But the president is in a different place, right? He's more sensitive to certain types of headlines. But what I will say about that is this is why I sort of, I would say I chuckle a little bit about Schumer's sort of justification, saying things are different this time than they were in March. The reality is, you know, all the issues he articulated in the spring about why Democrats can't allow government shutdown, they still apply. And that is this notion of two major things. One is that you give the executive branch more authority to do whatever the heck they want. And clearly Russ Vote could potentially take advantage of that to make more cuts that he wants to. But the other thing that he articulated in the spring was what is the end game here? What are you going to get out of it? Do you really think you can make a deal with this president that he's going to cave and give you something for shutting the government down? And that I would say again, having this conversation this morning, I'm sort of questioning that as well. Maybe actually Schumer's right that he could bait Trump into giving him something on this. But those are the two issues, the struggle, what power are you giving the executive branch? And what is the end game here? And those answers, they're not really easy to find for Democrats.

[Mark]

Rachel, thank you for bringing us that. And we'll see you at six tonight on two Way tonight with more as we head to T minus six hours. But thank you. Thank you. Okay, let's run through some other stuff here as we wait for the president. Sean, CBS is reporting, you can throw that up, guys, that Hamas is looking favorably towards the deal, even though there's been some grumbling in the Arab world about some of the changes that were made at the last minute. Here's the CBS headline, hamas Leaning toward Accepting Trump's Gaza Cease fire, playing quickly, maybe even by tomorrow. There were some changes made apparently at Netanyahu's request over the weekend. But most of the Arab countries, while grumbling have been favorable towards it. Both Tom Friedman and David Ignatius both wrote very favorably about it this morning. So.

[Sean]

Well, that's not going to help.

[Mark]

Yeah, obviously, obviously there's implementation to be done. But. But do you think Hamas will accept the deal and, and this will move forward?

[Sean]

Yeah, I mean, they have to. I mean, they are in such a box on this. And I got to say, you can, whatever your feelings on President Trump are, this plan is, I mean, how beautiful is this? It was three dimensional chess. It was outside the box. Totally not what a lot of people were thinking. It seems that they did a lot of spade work and homework, getting it ready, bringing it out. They isolated Hamas by making sure that all the Arab countries were on board on it. Bibi may not have gotten everything he wanted, but whatever. And I think this, to me is one of those signature issues that if it's executed, could go down as one of those huge presidential moments. But, I mean, I got to say, huge kudos to the White House for this.

[Mark]

Yeah. Dan, I've always so taken aback by how grudging Democrats have been in praising the Abraham Accords. I'd like to say it the way the president does. Abraham Accords, this, this seems the same thing. I mean, just getting the level of agreement now is, is quite an achievement.

[Dan]

Yeah. Look, I completely agree. Like, I tip my cap. And I think I'll be the first to say for all the people who think foreign policy experts should run foreign policy. I mean, I say this a little bit tongue in cheek, but President's golf body seems to have been able to kind of bridge some divides along with Jared Kushner, it sounds like that a lot of experts haven't been able to do for 50 years. So we'll see. These deals have, historically, it's not over till it's over. But I give them credit, and I give Trump credit for his persistence to keep working at this with everything else going on. It. A lot of presidents have walked away out of just sheer frustration or moved it to the back burner. I should say I give them credit.

[Sean]

On the heels of Iran, same thing. It's just so many. To your point, Dan, this. Everyone's an expert and says, we got to do it this way. And then Trump comes along, says, here's how we're going to do with Iran, here's how we're going to do with Israel. And it's like, oh, yeah, I guess maybe there is a different way of doing it. And it's. And he continues to break the mold. And the funny part about it is, no matter how many times he does it, when he comes up to the next hurdle, they go, well, he's definitely not going to succeed at that because, you know, no one's ever done it that way.

[Mark]

Yeah, and look, Witkoff, they're hit jobs on him on a regular basis. Professional diplomats sneer at him. Same with Jared. And there's. There's justifiable criticism of Jared for intermingling his business investments with the diplomatic efforts, but this is an extraordinary achievement. All right, here comes the President. We'll listen to this for at least a bit, and. And then again, we'll get to your questions. We may not get to talk about Kamala Harris in the New York City mayor's race, but that'd be a small price to pay to listen to the President tout the Abraham Accords or whatever it is he's going to talk about. All right, let's listen.

[Donald Trump]

And if you want to applaud, you applaud. And if you want to do anything you want, you can do anything you want. If you don't like what I'm saying, you can leave the room. Of course, there goes your rank. There goes your future.

[Dan]

There's a way to start.

[Donald Trump]

You just feel nice and loose, okay? Because we're all on the same team. And I was told that. Sir, you won't hear. You won't hear a murmur in the room. I said we had to loosen these guys up a little bit. So you just have a good time. But I want to thank Secretary Hegsett and General Kane, General Raisin Cain for a reason.

[Mark]

They call Raisin Cain.

[Donald Trump]

When I heard his name, I said, you're the guy.

[Dan]

Interesting way he started this.

[Donald Trump]

The Joint Chiefs of Staff and so many others in this room, who together represent the greatest and most elite fighting force in the history of the world. The United States military.

[Mark]

And that's taking it live.

[Donald Trump]

Military. We built the military. During my first.

[Dan]

Everyone wants to see what he says.

[Donald Trump]

Greatest achievements. We had the greatest economy in history, and I built the military. Those are the two things I say more than anything else. And I also kept us safe at the borders. We had very good borders. We didn't have people coming in from jails and prisons and everything like took place over the last four years. They'll never forget what happened to this country over the last four years with the incompetence. There could be no higher honor than to serve as your commander in chief. It is a great honor. I look at you, you're just incredible people. Central casting, I might add. To each and every one of you, I thank you for your unwavering devotion to the armed forces. And to the country that we've all sworn a sacred oath to defend. We all have that oath, every one of us. I'm thrilled to be here this morning to address the senior leadership of what is once again known around the world as the Department of War. I know Pete spoke about it. He gave a great speaker speech. I thought, great speech. I don't want him to get so good. I hate that, you know. No, I hate him. I almost fired him. I said, you can't. I don't want to go on after that. Now.

[Dan]

He gave.

[Donald Trump]

He gave a great speech, but he talked about Department of War. We were sitting there, I said, didn't it used to be called the Department of War? And he goes, yes, sir. They changed it, like in the early 50s. So we won the First World War, we won the Second World War, we won everything in between and everything before that. We only won. And then we went, in a way, woke, that was probably the first sign of wokeness, and we changed it to defense instead of war. And I said, what do you think? How do you think if we change it back, would that be a nice idea? And Pete loved it immediately. Some people think.

[Dan]

Most people think of Eisenhower, think of.

[Donald Trump]

Woke, a little thought. But in the end, we did it. And I have to be honest, it's so popular, it's, I thought would be met with fury on the left, but they're sort of giving up. I must be honest with you. They've had it. They've had it with Trump. They've been after me for so many years now. Here we are. Here we are. Come to the White House anytime you'd like. No, they've given up. Bad. A lot of bad people. But all over, that's been so popular, been very popular. I really thought that we were going to have to sort of fight it through. There's been no fight. There's been no fight like what I call the Gulf of America, the Gulf of America, because to me, it was always the Gulf of America. I could never understand. We have 92% of the frontage, and for years, actually 350 years, they were there before us. It was called the Gulf of Mexico. I just had this idea, I'm looking at a map on saying we have most of the frontage. Why is it Gulf of Mexico? Why isn't it the Gulf of America? And I made the change and it went smoothly. I mean, we had a couple of fake news outlets that refused to make the change. And then one of them, ap, took us to court and we won. And the judge, who was a somewhat liberal judge, said the name is the Gulf of America. Because AP refused to call it the Gulf of America. They wrote they're not a good outfit, by the way, they call it the Gulf of Mexico. I said, no, the Gulf of America is the name. And the judge actually said that, in fact, you can't even go into the room because what you're doing is not appropriate. The name is the Gulf of America. Google Maps changed the name. Everybody did. But AP wouldn't. And then we won in court. How about that? You if. Isn't that so cool? As Secretary Hexa beautifully described, the name change reflects far more than the shift in branding. It's really a historic reassertion of our purpose and our identity and our pride. That's when we go with the word war. And you know, we want war because we want to have no wars. But you have to be there. And, you know, sometimes you have to do it. I have settled so many wars since we're here. We're here almost nine months and I've settled seven. And yesterday we might have settled the biggest of them all, although I don't know. Pakistan, India was very big. Both nuclear powers. I settled that. But yesterday is could be the settlement in the Middle east. That hasn't happened for 3,000 years. I said, how long?

[Mark]

Okay, we'll keep monitoring this. We'll keep moderating. If there's a news or funny sound bites or he refers to the Abraham Accords, we'll come back to it and we'll take your questions in just a minute. Real quick, Sean, how many total units, not just books, but audiobooks, will the vice president sell in ebooks? How many total?

[Sean]

Oh, the former vice president. Yeah, ebooks.

[Mark]

No, total, total. Total copies across all formats. She's up to 350. I think they've now gonna print another 150, 000. So there'll be 500, 000 and counting. How many will she sell? Let's say how many will she sell this year? By the end of the year, how many will she sell?

[Sean]

550.

[Mark]

550, Dan.

[Dan]

I should say 500.

[Mark]

Yeah, no, it's going to be. You guys are right because obviously you saw a lot in the beginning. But remember, once you. Once you're number one on the list, more people buy it. So I'll go, I'll go higher. I'll go to 600. Just, just for fun, we're going to.

[Sean]

Use the book scan number here.

[Mark]

No, we're using the Simon and Schuster Sales total. We have to believe them. But. Okay, lastly, let's just a lot of micro macro developments in the New York City mayor's race overnight. Let's do our percentages. Percentage chance Mondami is the next mayor of New York City. Dan.

[Dan]

I'm gonna stick at 80%, but I. I want to just add. I am very curious because Chuck Schumer is pissing off the base potentially, and he still won't endorsementani.

[Mark]

Yup.

[Dan]

That's problem.

[Mark]

Yup. Sean.

[Sean]

100.

[Mark]

100. I'm going 75, folks.

[Dan]

Whoa. It's the first time you've been below 80 since July.

[Mark]

It is. If you did not want watch Mandami on good day New York where he dodged the question where he dodged the question from anchor Scotto about whether he supported decriminalization of prostitution. He is not ready for prime time on hard questions. He likes to change the subject. And I'm telling you, until the two debates occur, nobody should be saying 100.

[Dan]

Well, he also, in a separate interview, would not condemn Hamas again.

[Mark]

Yeah. All right, Time for your questions. Bring in. Tell us where you are.

[Sean]

I just think you guys. Can you do me a favor since I'm down here? Can you, say, take some pictures so that we all remember what New York used to look like Come. Come a year from now?

[Mark]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Oh, ye of little faith.

[Mark]

Just take some rats on the west side Beg bags uptown. What a mess. This town is shattered. Karen, welcome in. Thank you for being part of two way. Tell folks who don't know where you are and what's on your mind. For the great Sean and Dan, I'm.

[Karen]

Gonna try not to fangirl out because I can't even believe that you just picked me right now.

[Mark]

Yeah.

[Karen]

Okay.

[Mark]

We're honored to have you here.

[Karen]

Okay. I'm from New Hampshire.

[Mark]

Where? New Hampshire.

[Karen]

I'm going to say Hillsborough County.

[Mark]

Yeah. Yeah. Awesome.

[Karen]

Not on the wealthy side.

[Sean]

Are you originally from there?

[Karen]

I'm from Salem.

[Mark]

Okay.

[Sean]

The reason I say that is I don't know that I've ever in my life spoken to anyone ever in New England that's ever referred to what county they were from.

[Karen]

The reason it's because if I tell you what town I'm from, you're gonna think I'm wealthy, and I'm not. I'm on, like, the other side of the tracks in a. In a wealthy town with a small little house. I snuck in for the school system for my son.

[Mark]

Yeah.

[Sean]

Okay.

[Mark]

Beautiful place. What. What's your. What's your. Which do you like, better Winnipesaukee or Portsmouth?

[Karen]

Winnipesaukee.

[Mark]

Good. Good decision.

[Dan]

Answer.

[Donald Trump]

Yeah.

[Mark]

Yeah. Well, welcome in. We love. We love everyone in America, but we particularly favor Granite Staters, so thank you.

[Karen]

So this goes back a little bit from the. A few months ago. You had. I've been wanting to say this to you guys for a long time. So you had Batya on. She's the only person I've ever heard to say this. And you guys had a little debate about how important the economy is to voters, especially in the midterms. And at the end of it, she was saying to you guys that you don't get it, that we're not voting on inflation and prices because everything is so crazy. And Mark disagreed with her. And then because you guys were all like, when the prices go up, they're not going to get the votes in the midterms. And I wanted to clarify, because she is right, that things are so crazy. I would say that, I would say there's sex that might vote on the economy. Like, the young people, the people way in the left, are not going to vote for the economy because they're never going to vote for Trump and Vance, no matter what the economy looks like, in my opinion, because of, like, TDS and stuff. But the other people in the middle who have kids, we are looking at the world that they're going out into and are like, I don't know what's going to happen. I don't know if he's going to be married because no one's having kids. I don't know if he's going to have a job. The globalization, the crime, like, everything that's happening is out of whack. So when Vance and Trump were saying back then that to fix everything, there might be some pain, that's the conversation you guys were having with Batya. We are okay with that. Like, if someone comes out and tells me three or four years, prices are going up, you can't go on vacation. My husband and I have to get a second job and buy news cars. But we're going to fix it so when your kid gets out, he's okay. Done. Like, I will keep voting. We've lived through inflation. We've lived through Covid. We've lived through the economy going up and down. When I am out with other moms, we're not talking about the economy too much. We might say, oh, my God, my son's going through three pounds of grapes and the grapes are so expensive. But then we're talking about the Kids don't get off the phones. No one is dating. They're not getting their driver's license. There was, you know, my kid was in a lockdown because they were afraid. That is what we are talking about. And if we're told as parents that if we don't go on vacation and we have to pay more money and we sacrifice so our kids are going to be okay, we would all do it in a second. And that's why I don't think it's inflation. I don't think Trump won on that. Because the other alternative is, okay, inflation's high. But then I'm going to vote for men and women's sports and crime. Like, that's not the option. And I just want to end with one thing and then I'll stop talking. Because this was the analogy I came up with in the movie Zero Dark Thirty, where they go after Osam. There was two women, the main woman who caught him, and then there was another woman trying to go after him, and she kept paying money. And the woman who actually got him said to her, they don't care about the money anymore. It's. That's pre 911 behavior. They're about principle, worldview and ideology and what's happening. The terrorists don't care about getting paid anymore. And I feel like that's the same situation. Obviously, we're not terrorists, but it's like pre Trump behavior. If you give me, I'm now about what the world is going to be in the principle and not cheap goods. It's insulting to keep telling us that we're putting cheap goods in front of creating the world we want for our kids.

[Mark]

Karen, you speak for tens of millions. I'm wondering why you're not running for Senate. You would whomp Sununu and Pappas and no doubt in my life.

[Karen]

Can I just tell you one more thing? Last night when we went to bed, I told my husband I was doing this and I go, and I gave my spiel and I go, when I'm all done, Mark's gonna go, karen, you speak for tens of millions.

[Mark]

You're right. But you didn't predict I'd say you should run for Senate.

[Dan]

Karen, you should see the chat. Mark's not wrong.

[Sean]

What did he say in return? Karen, you're wicked crazy.

[Mark]

Yeah. Karen, thank you.

[Dan]

Vote for in 16, 20 and 24. Just out of curiosity.

[Karen]

So I am very conservative. I used to be a young liberal. Like, really one of these college kids. I'm not. I'm very conservative now. I Always voted for Trump, but I never voted for him in the primary. I voted for Rubio in the 2016 primary. In this primary, I was very excited to vote for DeSantis. And he dropped out, or he almost dropped out right before. And then I was actually glad that he did. My husband and I were glad we didn't vote for DeSantis because we felt like we were part now of the change that came in.

[Mark]

Yeah. Are you super psyched to vote for Sununu for Senate?

[Karen]

I would like to. I just want a Republican in there. I knew the Sununu's growing up. I just want. I just. I hate the Democratic senators we have.

[Mark]

So you, you grew up in Salem and that's where they're from, right?

[Karen]

Yep, yep. They were friends with my brothers. One was one year ahead of me. Chris was one year ahead of me.

[Mark]

Yeah.

[Karen]

Can't believe I'm talking to Mark Albert.

[Mark]

Yeah, we can't believe I'm talking to the next senator from New Hampshire. Dan, question or comment for Karen?

[Dan]

Yeah, I think so. Karen, the reason I asked who you voted for is like, first of amazing set of comments. And I mean, at the chat, like, I think would run your campaign. Right now, they're saying how much you speak for them and how well you said it. Some of what I think I've heard is a little bit of within the conservative movement, I am willing to give Trump more time. Right. Because one of the questions is, can MAGA hold together? And when I hear it, it's like, oh, no, no, no, we're with him. Some bumps in the road, no problem. Right. The question is, Trump barely won in 16, he barely lost in 20, and he barely won in 24. Right. And if you look at the voters who moved right back and forth that small sliver, some of it is the cultural issues that you talked about. It's a crazy world. And I don't know where they are right now. Right. Are they? Inflation was not as big of an issue for them, but some of those people, inflation was a huge issue for them. Young black men, Latinos, repeatedly saying, the economy, the economy, the economy. And some of it was also the social issues as well. The question is, when your margins are that small, any slippage can become material. Now, they could either not vote, they could go to the other side. We're not rising. As Republicans are kind of beginning to come back down a little bit. So that creates an interesting dynamic. The question is, is that middle of the same mind as you, or do you speak more for the base? Which is a good sign for Trump. My base isn't moving and I don't know the answer, but that's something to start finding out. Yep, I do.

[Karen]

I speak for the parents. It is now a parents versus non parents electorate. It is married with families versus singles. To me, that is it. You will have seeds like, I will see to the young people. Not Gen X, Gen X, 35 to 55. We grew up under Reagan. We're like, what is going on, Karen? If you're comfortable in childhood, I had. If you're comfortable married versus unmarrieds, in.

[Mark]

My opinion, if you're comfortable saying, how old are your kids?

[Karen]

I have one 15 year old son.

[Mark]

15 year old son. Okay.

[Sean]

Sean, I'm still amazed. I can't believe you. I was gonna guess like your five month old son. It's funny you say this because I had conversations with ad groups several months ago and they were in the same boat. They were like, listen, we've been dealing with people telling us they're going to take care of us for a while. If we can get market access in these other countries and we go through some churn with tariffs to get there so that the long term viability of the family farm is preserved, we're willing to do it. We've been dealing with this crap for decades. If this guy is going to fight for market access for our products, especially in the eu, and there's some churn in the short term for a couple years, we'll take it for the long term viability of family farming, of the industry as a whole. So I think it actually, you know, and I think a lot of auto workers would probably share the same view as well. So this is something that enough people. And this goes. We were talking about Israel a minute ago. There's been so much policy that is like, well, we can't change anything. It's got to be the same way all the time. And I think Trump's willingness to take on the status quo and shake things up and make for a better world in the long term is what people will give him. You know, I keep saying a longer Runway. It's like, hey, if that's what it. If you need a little bit longer, we'll give it to you. And that's very different than any other politician I would relate.

[Dan]

Sorry, I was gonna say, I think a state to watch for that, Sean, is Iowa, because like soybeans, they got a governor's race, an open Senate race, and two targeted House seats. The soybean community is not necessarily where you are Right now we'll give it a long time. Like they're pulling their hair out and screaming.

[Sean]

Well, yeah, they're. I mean but by the. Been saying this for weeks and you saw what they did in the last 48 hours. They were very sensitive to this. And now they're.

[Dan]

But my point is it goes to kind of what Karen is saying, which is that Iowa has swung hard to Trump. Are they willing to say, okay, these are bumps, but we see a better future under this path, or do they say that's it enough, we need a course correction because Iowa was a purple state that is now almost ruby red.

[Karen]

I would say the reason I would involve everything he does in this, like if you take crime over in Illinois or wherever, it's the same situation where people go, I don't want the military on the street. This isn't how I want to live. But we have to reset. And if this is what we have to do for six months or a year to get back, I will reset. That's why I don't think the outlook is just the economy. It's on like everything it needs to go back, like Hexa said today, to 1990. That's what we're looking for.

[Mark]

Karen, how much of your vision of leadership and solutions is embodied by J.D. vance?

[Karen]

Okay, I am in love with trading Vance, but I. It was before he got into politics. I was his movie, his. Then I read his book, then I watched his speeches and then I watched him go. So it's not because he's here, it's not because he's now here. But I do think he is a parent like he sees the same thing we're seeing. He's trying to raise his kids and, and the world is crazy and he just says it really, really well. I love J.D.

[Dan]

Okay, Karen, come back.

[Mark]

Yeah, Karen, love having you on. We'd love for you to come back. Maybe bring your husband next time.

[Karen]

Okay.

[Mark]

Just by the way he can watch it all.

[Kay]

So excited.

[Sean]

Well, if you're interested, just I don't know when his birthday is but I highly recommend the vest from Fairway and Green. If you go to 2way TV Fairway use code 2way20. The vest is, is beautiful. Comfortable as all get out especially as it gets a little colder there in New Hampshire.

[Dan]

Mark, if we're ever in a diner in the winter of 28 there pre, pre primary, I would, I vote Karen is one of the people we talk to.

[Mark]

Yeah. Karen, thank you for coming on. Really, really appreciate it.

[Karen]

Thank you for having me.

[Mark]

Thank you. Thank You.

[Dan]

You do not look like you're in New Hampshire.

[Mark]

Okay. Welcome in. Thank you for being part of Two Way. Tell folks who don't know where you are what's on your mind.

[Kay]

I'm in St. Thomas, U.S. virgin Islands.

[Mark]

Beautiful. Yeah.

[Kay]

That's not a green screen.

[Sean]

That's real.

[Dan]

Are you serious?

[Kay]

Yes, sir.

[Mark]

What is that? Is that sand behind you?

[Dan]

No, it looks like.

[Kay]

No, it's a little wall, but that's our bay.

[Mark]

Got it. Okay. What's a bay?

[Sean]

Our bay is totally different right now. My bay.

[Dan]

Your bay.

[Mark]

Okay. What's the name of your bay? Is it called K Bay?

[Kay]

I wish. No, it's Spring Bay. We have a cold spring where lobsters hang out in the back.

[Mark]

Okay. Kay. How long have you lived there?

[Kay]

Several years. Worked in North Carolina for a while, But I spent four decades in. On the political battlefield, since 1986, in fact. I was on the Hill when Sean was there.

[Mark]

Yeah? Who'd you work for on the Hill then?

[Kay]

Senator Pete Wilson from California. Then Senator Phil Graham of Texas.

[Mark]

I do a better Phil Graham imitation than I do of Pete Wilson. But the most important question, and then we turn it over to you, is.

[Sean]

Tell me how many guns Bill Graham has.

[Mark]

What's. What's the guest room like?

[Kay]

There are several here, and you are more than welcome. In fact, you know, it was John Fund who told me I should. I should start watching you, and I did a year ago.

[Mark]

Okay, well, welcome in. Thanks to John Fund. And just maybe TEDx me a key.

[Kay]

Anytime. Come on in.

[Mark]

Come on. Okay. I appreciate that. Kate, what's on your mind? Thank you for being part of two ways.

[Kay]

What's on my mind as a fellow communicator with Sean, is we have fought this battle for many, many, many years in trying to get our Republicans to have a titanium spine. Looking at the past shutdowns, no matter what year, it seemed as though we were more scared of editorial boards and bad press then and. Oh, we don't do it that way.

[Mark]

We don't?

[Kay]

No, we've never done it that way. Rather than being the tip of the spear, I would love to know from either Sean or Dan, because I'm sure Dan would probably agree. We've been some gutless wonders at Dunn. To what do you attribute the sudden burst of testosterone and testicular fortitude? Would you say that it's Donald Trump, the MAGA movement, Charlie Kirk, or just all of us waking up? Well, some of us have been awake for a while and finally having more folks out there for voices, like, for the government shutdown?

[Mark]

Yep. Great question, Kay.

[Sean]

Sean, I don't think there's any question about it. I mean, Donald Trump has been the person who has shown them if you stand up and fight, you can win. I mean, I remember in the countless legislative battles where the Republican leadership would just say the equivalent of it's just not worth it. We all know how this ends, and I think what people wanted more than anything is fight for it. Show us that you're willing to fight. And frankly, what I think is missing on the fiscal discipline front right now, which is go out. At least the one thing I'll give Doge is that the. They went out and did it. I get it wasn't pretty at all times, but I'm tired of people saying over and over again, well, you know, you just can't do it. It is what it is. It's not. If you're willing to give the fortitude to the fight, then you can go out and win it. I think Trump has shown people you can actually do that. And you're absolutely right. Editorial boards used to scare the crap out of most Republicans. And it's like, why It's a bunch of, you know, these are not the people that we should be worried about. And what you've seen now is they've become completely irrelevant. I mean, the last time, I can't imagine a campaign of any nature for city council, whatever, sitting down with an editorial board anymore. It would be the utter waste of time. So it just show. It took someone to say, I mean, it's kind of like what's going on in a lot of the movement on Maha and so much, which is someone saying that doesn't make sense. Why are we doing it this way? Let's stand up and fight.

[Kay]

Dan, are we better at the process argument though, than we were before? Is that what it is too?

[Sean]

I mean, to be honest with you, K, what I actually worry about more than anything is will the people, will people revert back to like right now, Trump is out there. Like, I'll, I'll forge ahead, just go behind, come behind me. Without him. I don't know that they, they maintain that, that sort of strength anymore. I really don't.

[Mark]

Yeah, it's the biggest question in American politics. If you're forward looking, which is after Trump, what role does he play? What, you know, what others do. There's, there's.

[Dan]

J.D.

[Kay]

Vance is one of the best in communications in the business.

[Mark]

Kay, when we all come down, I'm going to tell you great stories about the Wilson for president campaign.

[Kay]

Please do. Oh, I was on the gubernatorial, too.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Mark]

Incredible.

[Dan]

By the way, I do want to just add that the conversation between Kay and Sean sounds like a conversation in the Democratic base right now.

[Mark]

This is.

[Dan]

This is the conversation, I believe. Why on earth you need to fight. You need to stop cutting deals. You need to stop just saying that you're going to get. You'll get rolled if you think you're going to be rolled like this. What you guys just did is all over blue sky.

[Sean]

I will say one of the things that I remember back in the day when we were, you know, Contract with America, back in the day, when you talk to leaders on the Republican side, Dems had controlled Congress for almost 50, 54 years. And there was this process. And when you talk to appropriators, they had a deal and I think it was a third where Democrats would take two thirds and then they'd hand a third to Republicans and say, if you guys just go along and vote for all this stuff, we'll give you a third of the largesse. And then you divvy it up among your conference. And the Republicans were like, hey, that's not a bad deal. We don't have to do anything. We just vote yes and we get a piece of it. And that everybody was fat and happy. And that was a great little system until we realized actually we could be in charge. And that's what I think Newt really did.

[Kay]

He did. And he taught us, I think, more than anybody that we shouldn't be afraid to lose. We have to take that chance to explain our positions a bit better. And we just didn't have, though, that fortitude quite yet.

[Dan]

At some point, the country's gonna tire of this stuff, though.

[Mark]

Yeah. Kate, thank you for coming. Grateful to you.

[Kay]

Thank you.

[Mark]

Okay, we'll come down as a group. We'll do a retreat there. February or an off site. I'm sorry that Karen. I think Karen hung up. I tried to bring her back in because I'm going to read an email. Well, anyway, I got an email from a very smart political person who said, yes, Karen should definitely run for Senate. And. And he explains why, but. Oh, here she. Well, she's back anyway. I'll tell her later.

[Dan]

Is one of the initials in the name have an R in it?

[Mark]

I. I can't say who it is, but, like, all I can say is the groundswell for Karen to run for Senate is. Is reaching. Reaching other quarters. All right.

[Dan]

If an unidentified number calls, you take it.

[Mark]

Yeah, that's good, good advice. The end. The NRCC or maybe 1600. Yeah, 200.

[Sean]

Two, four. Seven.

[Dan]

Exactly. Exactly.

[Mark]

Yeah. All right. I'm just somebody I'm looking for and for some reason I can't find them. Let's see here.

[Dan]

Two way will give you the license to use that clip to.

[Mark]

Yeah. All right.

[Dan]

Take off video.

[Mark]

Having so much trouble here, Stacy. Welcome. Tell folks I don't know where you are. What's on your mind for Shawn and Dan.

[Stacey]

Hi. Well, I just wanted to kind of agree with the last two callers. My husband and I were just having a conversation last night about how people want to know, like, how did you vote for Trump? Or how do you support Trump? Or why would you. And it's for, for me, it's. I mean, I like Trump. I've voted for him three times. But I don't always love what he says. You were showing him this morning and I'm like, man, I just wish he would get to the point and not go off on these little side notes, you know, that are just like, if.

[Mark]

We showed you, if we showed you the full speech, it would be right down, not down your alley in the sense that he's basically just bragging about all the victories he said.

[Stacey]

Yeah. And so I like, man, I definitely.

[Dan]

Worth lying them in.

[Stacey]

So I wish he didn't do that. But it's not about him. It's about the agenda. I mean, it really is. Like, this has nothing to do with you guys specifically, but Megyn Kelly was talking yesterday about her five year anniversary and we, we are in Florida and thank God we were during COVID because DeSantis was not going to leave us shut down. But I remember being. My husband is a history teacher. For 33 years, I taught history. Love America. Love history. And I just, I felt so defeated during COVID because I felt like people were making me feel like I was the crazy person who was a conspiracy theorist. And I'm kind of like on the Maha. I'm definitely a Maha person. But, you know, five years ago, Maha wasn't a thing. So I just. But man, I remember Megyn Kelly saying, like, at some point, all of these people, all these woke people, all these like, all this stuff, they're gonna eat themselves and the common sense will prevail. And I feel like that's where we're at. So this is, for me, it's not about Trump, it's about the agenda. And JD Will take that. If it's jd, Great. If it's Margo, great. Like if it's Tulsi, Great. It doesn't matter. It's not for me. It's not about Trump but he, you know, it's about his agenda and making America first again.

[Mark]

Stacey, did you say where you lived?

[Stacey]

I live in North Florida.

[Mark]

North Florida, yeah. And do you have kids? Do you mind saying?

[Stacey]

Yeah, I do. I have a 24 year old son and I have a 19 year old daughter. And I think what Karen was saying about how I am willing, we, my husband and I were saying this last night, like prices still seem high to me. Like I can't say, like when Trump's like prices are down, like I don't really feel that but I'm willing to withstand the pain if in the long run like things are not just going to turn around and prices are not just going to be low. Like this is systemic reform that he is trying to do and I am willing to live with that in the short term for the long term gain.

[Mark]

Yep. Stacy, thank you so much. Really appreciate you coming on being part of two way. Please come back.

[Stacey]

Thanks for having me.

[Mark]

Thanks Sean. What do you have on tonight?

[Sean]

Oh, by the way, real quick, John asks this. The Virgin Islands does not have a senator. It has a non voting delegate. So as many of the territories do. So just answering a little. I do read the chat.

[Mark]

I admit it, don't recommend it.

[Sean]

Admit it. Tonight John Solomon's on. We're going to break down a lot of what's going on with the shutdown but obviously there's a lot of conspiracy theories out there on some recent things. Specifically on January6, John's got some exclusive reporting. We'll break down.

[Mark]

Okay, grab a pen. I have a lot to tell you about. Get ready. Here we go. Benzinga. Those of you who know what Benzing is will know what Benzing is. Those who don't, it's a, it's an online business and economy website and they have a great take on the economy. Very populous, very up to the minute. And we'll be doing the Benzinga market playbook. I'll be hosting along with a couple of folks from there. Please join us for that noon today, noon eastern time. Go to two way TV or my substack to be able to join either on YouTube or X or, or if you want to become on the platform and ask questions about the economy market playbook at noon today. Then at 6 o' clock Rachel will be back. Mark Bedner will join me on two way tonight, seven o'. Clock. Bob Woodson is Michael Moynihan's guest on the Moynihan Report and dropping later today on Next up, I have an interview with Mark Andreessen and we'll be talking about all sorts of things, but Mark, injuries and literally, I'll say this to his face, he's one of the smartest people I've ever met. And we're going to talk about the economy and AI and everything else. And then reminder, if you want to submit questions for Mike Pence, who Meghan McCain is interviewing, go to or send an email by tonight at midnight right before the shutdown, send an email to Citizen McCain TV and submit a question. Megan will put it in the queue if, if your question's excellent, to ask Mike Pence for the episode that's airing on October 1st, which is tomorrow. All right, I think that's it. Ten o'. Clock. President still speaking. Go Socks for sure. And we're all equally outraged, except for Dan, that they're not letting people buy tickets.

[Sean]

If they how do we not get to that? They're not letting you buy a ticket. You don't live there.

[Mark]

Yeah. It's kind of crazy. I am going to ask Mark Andreessen, but that's probably my lead. Thank you for watching. Thank you for being part of the two way community. Karen2026 and Sayonara, Greg Kelly, I love you.

[Dan]

That's how you end it.

[Sean]

Yeah.