Jimmy Kimmel Expected to Be "Conciliatory But Defiant" Tonight; Kamala Harris' Book Tour Under Fire

Summary

---

2WAY Morning Meeting – Episode Summary

Episode Title: Jimmy Kimmel Expected to Be "Conciliatory But Defiant" Tonight; Kamala Harris' Book Tour Under Fire
Date: September 23, 2025
Hosts: Mark Halperin, Sean Spicer, Dan Turrentine

Episode Overview

This episode of the 2WAY Morning Meeting brings the latest inside analysis on the coming news cycle. Hosts Mark Halperin, Sean Spicer, and Dan Turrentine preview the President’s United Nations General Assembly (UNGA) appearance, discuss Jimmy Kimmel’s anticipated return to late night television after recent controversy, and dissect the early failures of Kamala Harris’s book tour. Running threads include the impact of the President’s statements on Tylenol safety, the intricacies of vaccine-related policy, and a special segment on navigating medical risk, featuring expert OB-GYN callers and commentary. The conversation is candid and often combative, reflecting both cable news and backroom strategy session energy.

---

Key Discussion Topics & Insights

President’s Daybook & UNGA Preview

• The President is en route to the UN to deliver what’s expected to be a direct, critical speech about the United Nations and world institutions.
  • [04:25–09:45]
  • UN speeches rarely leave a lasting mark; most are quickly forgotten, with Trump's “Little Rocket Man” jibe about Kim Jong Un being a rare exception ([08:40]|Mark, Sean).
• Marco Rubio—serving as both Secretary of State and National Security Advisor in this admin—previews Trump's theme as challenging the UN's “fecklessness” ([07:17–08:19]).
  • Quote: "The UN will play no role if they [China] do that. So I think what the President’s going to do is challenge the UN to find its meaning and its purpose..." – Marco Rubio [07:17]

US–Ukraine Policy Discussion

• Hosts express low expectations for progress in the President’s meeting with Zelensky; consensus is US policy is cautious and essentially reactive ([11:26–12:19]).
  • Quote: "Trump will not do anything. I'm just going to talk. That's all he's going to do." – Dan [12:07]

President’s Tylenol Announcement & Vaccine Policy

• Trump’s warning against Tylenol use by pregnant women (related to autism risk) oversteps his own medical advisors’ guidance, sparking divided media coverage ([12:19–14:05]).
  • Bill Cassidy publicly pushes back, asking for scientific evidence ([13:17–14:05]).
  • Quote: "There's no evidence of anything you two said, the other person being RFK." – Dan [13:17]
  • Spicer sees the issue as significant, with real-world impact on behavior and patient-doctor conversations ([14:07]).

Kamala Harris’ Book Tour: Missed Opportunity

• Harris's interviews (with Rachel Maddow and GMA) are criticized for vagueness and retreating from the book’s most newsworthy claims ([15:10–20:29]).
  • Examples include Harris avoiding restating her suggestion that America wasn't ready for a Black woman and a gay man on the ticket, or talking around concerns about Biden’s mental fitness ([16:36–18:41]).
  • Quote: "Dan, in the business, we call that a word salad. So she doesn't actually tell the story, she just kind of refers to the story. Not a way to sell books." – Mark [17:13]
• Her lack of follow-through and apparent discomfort are seen as harming both her book’s prospects and any designs on future presidential campaigns.
  • Quote: "She actually reminds you why you didn't vote for her." – Sean [21:04]
  • Book currently #2 on Amazon, but hosts question who is buying it ([21:52]).

Jimmy Kimmel’s Return

• Kimmel is expected to be “conciliatory but defiant” after being reinstated post-suspension for spreading misinformation ([22:51–28:31]).
  • Quote: "In any crisis, the option is, you know, you acknowledge regret or are somewhat conciliatory. Kimmel hasn't said a word, not one." – Sean [25:07]
  • Spicer: “If I were TP USA tonight, I would target every single advertiser that goes on that show and ask for a nationwide boycott.” [25:44]
  • Debate over forgiveness, conditions for apology, and whether broadcast TV standards should be higher than cable ([26:29–28:31]).

---

Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• On UN Speeches:

  • "Can you name anything that ever happened in one of these that was memorable and had an impact on the world?" – Mark [08:19]
  • “He referred to Kim Jong Un as Little Rocket Man.” – Sean [08:40]
  • “If you were the White House communications director...what would you tell him to say?” – Mark [08:53]

• On Harris Book Tour:

  • "I think you framed it perfectly, Dan. How could the staff not have said...if you're going to say the equivalent of nothing specific comes to mind or whatever...don't put them in the book." – Mark [20:04]
  • "She looks uncomfortable, she looks tentative..." – Dan [20:29]

• On Jimmy Kimmel’s Controversy:

  • "He has not apologized. He lied. He spread misinformation." – Sean [25:07]
  • "Almost all of cable news would be canceled." – Dan [28:15]

---

Government Shutdown Showdown

• Trump cancels a scheduled meeting with Schumer and Jeffries, calling their demands “unserious” and “ridiculous” ([56:27–57:33]).
  • Quote: “I’ve decided that no meeting with the congressional leaders could possibly be productive. They’re threatening to shut down the government...unless they can have over $1 trillion in new spending...” – Mark reading Trump [56:27]
  • Hosts analyze political maneuvering, impact on negotiations, and how Democrats might recalibrate (focus on ACA extension) ([57:33–58:53]).

---

Listener Q&A: Medical Risk, Individualized Care, and Vaccine Policy

Timestamps: [36:16–55:45]

• Multiple OB-GYNs and doctors join to discuss Tylenol, vaccine policy, and trust in public health messaging.
  • Strong agreement: The science is murky; true informed consent requires nuance.
  • Quote: “I think the problem with any of the broad statements...is you should discuss this with your doctor...It's very hard to draw causal links in medicine.” – Dr. Melissa [37:09–39:46]
  • Consensus that the COVID era’s “one size fits all” strategy has damaged trust—guidance should revert to individualized risk assessment ([48:10]).
  • Hepatitis B vaccine for newborns is debated as an example of where individual risk often makes more sense than blanket policies ([50:08–55:45]).
    • Quote: "If a mom is hepatitis B negative, then it should be the mom's choice whether she wants to do it then or come back and potentially get it later." – Dr. Melissa [54:42]

---

Other Memorable Moments

• Macron’s New York gridlock adventure and President Trump’s advice to “just walk” to avoid the UN traffic ([29:17–30:43]).

  • Light-hearted banter about classic Manhattan logistics.

• Multiple inside-baseball discussions about political optics, from high-stakes photo ops to anticipated media narratives ([32:16–34:34]).

• Preview of culture war and agriculture issues on deck for coming days ([58:55–59:17]).

---

Timeline & Timestamps for Key Segments

• Show Preview & UNGA Background: [00:00–04:25]
• UNGA/Trump Themes: [04:25–12:19]
• Tylenol & Public Health Messaging: [12:19–15:10]
• Kamala Harris Book Tour Critique: [15:10–22:32]
• Kimmel Discussion: [22:32–28:31]
• NYC Gridlock and Macron Anecdote: [29:17–31:26]
• Shutdown Negotiation Strategies: [32:16–35:30]
• Listener Q&A, Medical Ethics and Policy: [36:16–55:45]
• Trump Cancels Thursday Meeting / Final News: [56:04–58:53]
• Upcoming Programming Notes: [58:53–end]

---

Tone & Language

The episode combines newsroom frankness, campaign strategy chatter, and a freewheeling, sometimes adversarial style. The hosts balance serious policy analysis with media-savvy banter and don’t shy away from sharp criticism or humor (often self-referential).

---

Summary For Non-Listeners

This episode of 2WAY Morning Meeting skillfully previews the coming day’s top political and media stories, offering an insider’s (sometimes jaded) view of what actually matters behind the headlines. Expect pointed critique of big personalities—Kamala Harris’s cautiousness on her book tour, Trump’s headline-chasing approach at UNGA, and the continuing media fallout for Jimmy Kimmel. The hosts’ chemistry powers the show, drawing out fresh insights and levity even on wonky health policy and DC gridlock. Listeners also gain a rare window into nuanced medical debates usually absent from overtly partisan news commentary.

---

Notable Quotes (with Speaker and Timestamp):

• “She actually reminds you why you didn't vote for her.” – Sean on Kamala Harris [21:04]
• “He has not apologized. He lied. He spread misinformation.” – Sean on Jimmy Kimmel [25:07]
• "If a mom is hepatitis B negative, then it should be the mom's choice whether she wants to do it then or come back and potentially get it later." – Dr. Melissa [54:42]
• “I think the problem with any of the broad statements...is you should discuss this with your doctor...It's very hard to draw causal links in medicine.” – Dr. Melissa [37:09]
• “In any crisis, the option is, you know, you acknowledge regret or are somewhat conciliatory. Kimmel hasn't said a word, not one.” – Sean [25:07]

---

For the latest on Kimmel’s return and Harris’s book tour fallout, tune in to tomorrow’s show for follow-up analysis and new developments.

Transcript

[A]

Foreign.

[B]

Everybody welcome. This is the morning meeting. Sean, Dan and I will take you through the day. Lots going on, as they say in the television business. The President's United Nations. Jimmy Kimmel's coming back. Kamala Harris's book tour is rollickingly underway. We'll walk you through it all, give our thoughts and then love to hear from you. If you're here on the two way platform, please raise your hand and remember, remember peace, love and understanding in all your questions and no smack in the chat. Dan, you got no smack in the chat on the sleeve of that shirt.

[C]

No, we got conversations like no other.

[B]

Conversations like that. Also applicable in order to have conversations like no other. Please no smack in the chat. And I happen to know there's been a lot of smack in the chat. Not necessarily more than usual, but still a lot. Dan, Kamala Harris, as far as I know, he's done two interviews that have aired so far. One on Rachel Maddow last night long interview, a Shorter1 on GMA today. What percentage of the Kamala Harris interviews have you watched?

[C]

60%.

[B]

60%.

[C]

I watched most of Rachel Maddow and caught a little bit of this morning here with.

[B]

Yeah, Sean, have you seen any of them? Goose Deuce. Okay, well I'm gonna walk you through them because I've watched them both and I have strong feelings about them.

[D]

So I've seen clips just to be fair so that I don't uninformed.

[B]

Understood, understood. You just hadn't sitting just TiVo drilled through them. A couple things I want to tell you about before we get going and I'll run through the daybook first. Don't Forget tomorrow at 1:00pm Eastern Time special session with David Bonson for the Two Way community. Go to Two Way TV TBG right now can sign up to talk to David about the economy and I will chat a bit but mostly we'll spend an hour taking your questions on the economy. If you want to make sure you have a slot there, please go to two Way TV TBG to join David Bonson to ask questions about. You can ask. He's in the personal wealth management business. You can ask him questions about your own situation, but also just in general about the markets, the economy, etc. We look forward to that. Tomorrow 1:00pm Eastern time. And now a word from our sponsors. Today sponsored by CB Distillery and the opportunity to get a 25% discount on all their products. Go to CBDistillery.com this is for if you're having trouble sleeping. If you're dragging during the day because you didn't get a good enough night's sleep the night before. CB Distillery has solutions help your body with stress, pain, after exercise, even for some mood and focus. All with high quality clean ingredients. No fillers, just their premium CBD. Imagine the possibility of waking up refreshed. 2 million people. More than 2 million people trust CB Distillery for products and you have an opportunity now to try them out. As I said, 25% off. All you do is go to cbdistillery.com and use the promo code Mark M A R K. Easy to type, easy to say. CBDistillery.com promo code mark 25% off. All their clean natural products give you a chance to sleep better. Try it today. Tell them Dan sent you or Mark sent you. Either way.

[D]

Hi, I'm Anthony Scaramucci and I'd like to tell you about my new show, Lost Boys. It's a limited, limited edition series. It's hosted by myself and Professor Scott Galloway. We're having honest conversations about a topic no one wants to talk about. The crisis that young men are facing nowadays. Our talks discuss why so many young men are struggling to find purpose, connection and identity in today's world. We dig into what's really going on. Politics, culture, loneliness, even rage. And what we can do to help change the narrative. This is a six part series that will challenge your assumptions and encourage you to continue the conversation from the dinner table to the office. Follow and listen to Lost Boys on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. You can also go to Lostboys Men and sign up to get the latest episodes and news.

[B]

All right, the day book. Pretty interesting stuff. While we're on the air, the President of the United States will be headed to the U.N. dan, that's a pretty clean shot from Trump Tower. Just go east and south.

[C]

Yeah, and he actually has a tower across the street from it. One of the first that he built.

[B]

He does now. Do you know that that's the building Michael Cohen lived in? Kellyanne Conway lived there and I believe Derek Jeter. No. What's the other guy's name? Who's the guy who's now a sportscaster for Fox who was on the Yankees?

[C]

Tom Bray on the Yankees?

[B]

No, Alex Rodriguez. Alex Rodriguez lived in a rod. Lived in that building too. Very nice building. Anyway, the President's supposed to speak at 09:50 UNGA. Species tend to start on time in my experience, so maybe we'll dip into that at the very end. And then he's got a bunch of bilaterals including with Zelensky supposedly going to a reception at 7:20 tonight. I wouldn't be stunned if he skipped it. The First Lady's got a public event at 2 o'. Clock. A spokesman for the first lady was just on Fox and Friends. A guy with long hair I've never seen before and he was previewing her event and we'll see how that goes. And then President the First lady go back to Washington after the reception. Supposed to land at the White House at 11:10pm which would give him just enough time to settle in and watch Kimmel. Kimmel in theory is on 1135, not in the Washington D.C. area. So hopefully the President has some work around there because the DC station is owned by Sinclair which is not airing Kimmel. They're airing a local news. Nextstar, the other big local station owner which had balked at airing Kimmel has not said yet whether they will air. The two of them together own what is it like 25% of all ABC stations some number like that so not insignificant won't air and the show tapes earlier. It's not a live show so. So we'll see if they put out any clips because neither Sean nor I would like to stay up till 11:35 tonight and watch and watch that JD Vance don't know what he's up today. Marco Rubio is in New York and he is having UNGA meetings as well. House and Senator out. Kamala Harris already on gma. We're going to show you some of that is on the View. That is live at 11 o' clock on the upper west side of Manhattan. Wonder what she's doing between GMA and the View. That's a common time killer that many.

[C]

People have maybe go for a walk in the park today.

[B]

Maybe, maybe. Although again we don't. We don't know who's protecting her. She doesn't have Secret Service. All right.

[C]

There's enough in the park right now. She'll be fine.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. All right.

[D]

Here is getting the park.

[B]

Here is again I keep saying this little covered. Marco Rubio continues to have both the job Secretary of State and National Security Advisor and seems to be thriving. And here is the National Security Advisor, Secretary of State and also. What is he like head of NASA? No, that's the other guy. Anyway, he's got other jobs too. Here's Marco Rubio on Fox and Friends previewing the UNGA events.

[E]

Well one of the things the President is going to have to address and is going to address is the UN itself and that is why do we still have a un? It has tremendous potential. The UN is an organization that has the potential to do some great things around the world, but it's not doing it. If you look at Russia and Ukraine, you have a war going on there. It's the President that's been carrying the burden of trying to bring it to an end. The UN is playing no role. If you look at what's happening in Gaza with Hamas and everything that's happened there with Israel taking them on, what role is the UN playing? None. We're going to try here. Even as close to home in the Western Hemisphere, in a place like Haiti that's been overrun by gangs that control that country and has destabilized the region, the US is asking for the UN to step up and play a very important role. We have a lot of support, but it looks like China might stand in the way of this effort to bring that about. The UN will play no role if they do that. So I think what the President's going to do is challenge the UN to find its meaning and its purpose and its utility as an organization, because it doesn't seem to be doing the job and it's pretty good at spending a lot of money.

[B]

So the UNGA species always get built up. I've covered many of them, some in person, mostly watching them on tv. Sean, what's the most memorable line from any president you can recall from unga? And you won't be able to name one, proving my point that no one remembers these, but can you. Can you name anything that ever happened in one of these that was memorable and it had an impact on the world?

[D]

He referred to Kim Jong Un as Little Rocket Man. I believe that's rather.

[B]

He did. Okay. Yeah, that's a good one. How about a second one, Sean, from any president?

[D]

Well, let's see now. You. You've changed the rules.

[B]

Exactly. Yeah. So, Sean, if. If you were the White House communic director and you might have been, and the President said, sean, I want this speech to have a lasting legacy, I want to have a real world impact, what would you tell him to say?

[D]

I think what he's previewed already, going after these world institutions, the wto, et cetera, and how they have failed to live up to their expectations, to their mission, is going to garner significant attention and frankly, I think will probably become one of the most memorable speeches. Because to sit in the UN and go after the UN's fecklessness and uselessness at this time, as the Secretary of State just previewed I think is going to make significant news.

[B]

Okay, and what would the news like? What specifically? Just. Just Trump denounces Republican. Well, America First Republican criticizes UN or something more than that.

[D]

I think that the devil's going to be in the detail. And so how far do you want to go on that spectrum? Do you want to literally talk about how it's failed, or do you want to talk about actual reforms you could make? I mean, the more detailed you get, the more critical you get, and the more that you lean forward as to either that we need to get out of the UN or that you specifically name reforms that need to be enacted that will determine how much attention you get.

[B]

Dan, do you expect the president to leave an indelible mark with this speech or would quickly be forgotten by 11:45?

[C]

Well, I think it'll be quickly forgotten because I. Part of the challenge is like what Marco Rubio just said. Well, one of the reasons they haven't moved on Israel is because we're blocking it. We don't want the UN involved because they might not be 100% on Israel's side. So, I mean, the reality of the UN Is people have their own politics, their own vested interests, and so they block others from acting. I think the interesting thing is, I agree, Trump is going to trash the U.N. he's going to trash all these world agencies. Of course, we've contributed to some of their failings. We're pulling out, we're pulling money out. And the world is messy. As Trump, I think it's not being given enough attention. The tariffs are a mixed bag right now. The world economy is not in a great place. Our own economy is not in a good place, which is why Trump wants rate cuts so desperately. What's happening in Ukraine is a mess. What's happening in Israel is a mess. And we seem to have zero strategy with China. So as he takes the world stage, I think a lot of the world is looking at him like, hey, big guy, it's a mess. And you don't seem to have any solutions.

[B]

Okay, let me ask you about the Zelinsky meeting. Do either of you have high hopes for that?

[C]

No. Sean, he's not going to get tough on Russia now.

[D]

I don't. Those Linsky one, I mean, to be honest with you, he's just hoping to keep the ball in play. I feel like if anyone's going to make Russia's Putin overplaying his hand is the only thing that matters at this point, as far as I'm concerned.

[C]

But he hasn't overplayed his hand because he's winning.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

No, I think when you start to do the drones into Poland and things, that's. That's starting to really.

[C]

So are we going to help stop him?

[D]

That's. I think that's where, like, you're going after Poland is not a smart idea.

[C]

It's only not a smart idea if we're going to do something for six months. We keep saying it. Trump will not do anything. I'm just going to talk. That's all he's going to do.

[B]

Okay. I'm surprised at the range of coverage that the president's Tylenol announcement got yesterday. Some organizations played it up big. It's barely covered in some other places. So going forward, Dan, do you think the president's announcement where he went further than his own medical team in what the recommendation was? The recommendation from. From his own people. Leaving aside people who say they don't believe the science, even his own people said people should. Doctors, patients should be careful and judicious and prudent about how much Tylenol they take. Here's the Wall Street Journal headline. In targeting a common painkiller, Trump oversteps his own advisor's guidance on autism. The president's warning against Tylenol use for pregnant women and children went beyond the advice of his drug regulatory agency. Dan, do you think going forward this will have a big effect on Tylenol use in this country by pregnant women?

[C]

It'll have some, because people. There are lots of people, tens of millions who will hear what the president say and follow his advice. I don't think you're going to hear much more about this, because I think his own political team knows that the data is really dangerous on the vaccine issue. Yet Bill Cassidy coming out and saying, you know, respectfully, where's the science to back up any of the things you said? Please put it out. That's Bill Cassidy, that is a Republican senator, in about the nicest way possible, saying, there's no evidence of anything you two said, the other person being rfk. So they know this is a danger zone politically, but they need the RFK vote to stay engaged. So I don't think you're going to hear much. I think Democrats will make sure that you hear about this, though.

[B]

Sean, is this gonna have a big impact?

[D]

I do. I think so. I mean, I flipped through all the morning shows this morning. Everybody was talking about it. And the interesting thing was, is that despite the headlines of, and the reflexive nature of most of the legacy media, when they actually put doctors on. They said, well, you know, there is some, some studies that suggest that this is a problem. And da, da, da, da. So there is. Again, I'm not a doctor, but I do think that people should always do. And what the job of most of these government agencies is to do is to give guidance to doctors. The end of the day, regard, whether it's a vaccine or acetaminophen, consult with your doctor, what's best for you. And the role of the government is to give doctors advice and knowledge. And so at least in my flipping around and listening to the actual people that went to medical school, there's definitely some studies that suggest that there's a connection. There could be a connection. There might be some. So warning people about it, I think is helpful. But at the end of the day, you should always seek an actual doctor's advice.

[B]

All right, Kamala Harris talking to my colleagues here. Now, apparently, she's doing Something Live on TikTok. So if somebody could go see if we can find that and put it up, I'd like to, I'd like to see that. She's done two interviews, Rachel Maddow last night and jma. And most distinctive to me, again, as someone who's as expert in selling books as anything I'm expert at, she's not doing a particularly good job of selling the book, in part because she's pulling her punches. When the questioners have asked her about the newsiest parts of the book, she's not backing up what she said in the book. She seems reluctant to. To repeat some of the accusations she's made. So, for instance, Rachel Maddow. Rachel Maddow said, I'm very disappointed that you suggested that the country wasn't ready to elect a black woman and a gay man and picking people to judge. And she said, oh, no, no, that's not really what I, what I mean, what I mean is I, you know, I think it would have been tough. I mean, she just, she didn't follow through. And then here's two examples from Good Morning America. First, she was asked about the phone call that she writes in the book that Joe Biden called her right before her debate with Donald Trump and rather than just wishing her well, started to complain to her about his own grievances rather than tell the story. Here's what former Vice President Kamala Harris did on Good Morning America. Number 115, please.

[F]

He, he called me and I, and again, listen, this book, I am being candid in this book about, but not in this Interview behind the scenes, what happened, and in a way that I hope is helpful for people to understand what that all was. And part of that call that he made to me the afternoon before the debate was to wish me luck, but also to talk about something that was more in his interest than it was in mind, especially in the context of that time.

[B]

Dan, in the business, we call that a words, a word salad. So she doesn't actually tell the story, she just kind of refers to the story. Not a way to sell books. And here she is when asked about the question that she confronts to some extent in the book, which is her regret that she failed to raise the issue of the President's mental decline. Now what she says in this interview is it's harder to run for president than to be president, which I can tell you makes no sense. Here's 116, please. As we sit here today, do you think he would have been up for running the country for four more years?

[F]

Here's the distinction that I make, and having had the experience myself, it is one thing to have the capacity to govern, it is another thing to go through an election for President of the United States. So you are an athlete. You may appreciate this kind of metaphor. Running for President of the United States is like being in a marathon at a sprinter's pace with people throwing tomatoes at you every step you take. It is not for the light hearted. It takes an incredible amount of endurance and stamina. And can you imagine doing it while you are also carrying literally the weight of the world as being President of the United States? So the distinction I make is about capacity to be president and what that election would require in a campaign, especially running against Donald Trump.

[B]

Yeah, and running against Trump. You had the big debate. All right, Sean, what is the book tour so far? Tell you about her prospects of selling books and her prospects of leaving the door open to run for president.

[D]

Let me just say this. When I wrote my first book, my agent called me at one point during the draft and said, did that make you feel better? Because I told a couple stories. And he said, and I said, yeah. And he goes, okay, in five years, do you want that story to be hanging out there? And I was like, no. He's like, then let's cut it. Like, this is the job of people around you to read back what you write and say, are you prepared to back that up? Are you? Would you want that part of your legacy? And I cannot believe that they did this to her, that she was so naive to think that you could write this. And no one would ask you that you thought that you could attack a gay man for not being vice president and then go on an openly gay person.

[B]

Well, I love what you're saying, but just to clarify, she didn't attack him. She attacked the country. She attacked the voters.

[D]

No, that's her judgment. That's her.

[B]

Yeah, but she didn't. She. But she didn't attack. But she didn't attack Pete Buttigieg. She. She said the country wouldn't vote for us. That's what she. She didn't attack.

[D]

That's. But again, it's still her judgment.

[B]

Yeah, no, I understand. And.

[D]

And you chose to go on Rachel Maddow.

[C]

Yeah. Her show.

[D]

To lead off your book tour. You didn't think she was going to bring that up?

[B]

Yeah, I agree with you. And again, I think you framed it perfectly, Dan. How could the staff not have said, like somebody should have said to her, these are the stories. If you want to own these and tell them in a vivid way to sell books, please. But if you're gonna. If you're going to say the equivalent of nothing specific comes to mind or whatever she said on the View last year, like, don't put them in the book. It's ridiculous.

[C]

I mean, look, she looks uncomfortable, she looks tentative. And what I see is she's heard the criticism and now she's trying to adjust, which is, again, part of her problem, which is she is so finger in the wind. She's so cautious. She's so tentative as a. As just kind of a general operating style that it's amazing that a book that you wrote that you're putting out, that's part of your future and you are spooked 48 hours into it or whatever.

[D]

As you say this, Dan, I go back to Bob Dole, Mitt Romney, right? So Dole goes on, what was it, Mark? Letterman. And Mitt has this documentary come out and people go, where was that candidate? Right? They reflect on it, go, God, that if they only. She actually reminds you why you didn't vote for her. She's like. You're like, oh, good, I'm glad I still didn't vote for these other guys. People go, I wish I had known that. Because they seem more likable, more relatable. She reinforces why people didn't like her post running well.

[C]

And I also think that she, she wants to run for president. And after that election, most Democrats bit their tongue. And I think, Sean, to your point, now that this is out is all these Democrats are now coming out and they're just like, jesus Christ, you know, what are you doing?

[B]

It's number two.

[C]

She still wants to run.

[B]

It's number two on Amazon currently. And again, there are not a lot of big books out this week, so she doesn't need to sell a lot to become a number one on the nonfiction list. But my question is, who's buying this book? Are Democrats who love her buying it?

[C]

I did. I want to read it.

[B]

Okay. Okay.

[C]

People are going to send it to.

[D]

Me when you're done. I love a good political book, but I can't possibly.

[B]

Dan, do you buy hardcover hard copy books?

[C]

Yeah, it'll be.

[D]

Oh, I love a hard cut.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[D]

I was gonna say exhibit A.

[B]

All right, we'll keep tracking that. And I'll have excerpts from her sound bites from her appearance on the View today on two Way tonight later.

[D]

I just real quick. Do we think rating her performance right now A to F, how do you think she's gonna do on the View?

[B]

I would say C minus.

[C]

Yeah, I was just gonna say I.

[D]

Was going C minus. I'm with you.

[C]

Like, like, I mean, Joe Biden, speak up. By the end of the week.

[B]

I just. By the end of the week, someone's going to speak up on Joe Biden's behalf. I believe. By the end of the week, I don't think it'll be Joe Biden. I will say that I'll go back to what Bill Clinton said about Mitt Romney applies to Kamal Harris, that that person should not have a job that requires them to speak in public. All right, Kimmel again, he's expected. All the reports are that he's going to address the situation tonight. Knowing Bob Iger a little bit, I believe that they have some understanding that he will be at least somewhat conciliatory. He's not going to come on and just blast everything. I think he'll be somewhat conciliatory, but I think he'll also, as a student of Kimmel, I think he'll also be a little bit defiant and talk about the First Amendment. The left is saying that Kimmel being put on represents a great victory. Here's Don Winslow. 112. Dan, who's Don Winslow?

[C]

I have no idea until you showed this to me earlier.

[B]

Okay. He's, he's some, he's some liberal activist. He's like a. He's from like the Paul Begala school of sharp elbows. The only reason Disney is bringing this is on X. The only reason Disney is bringing Kimmel back is because the American people stood up, called out the executives by name. Disney stock plummeted and Disney lost a lot of money. Get it? That's the playbook for the next three years of Trump. You must be louder than him. Dan, to what extent is Mr. Winslow's analysis correct about what happened?

[C]

Well, I do think that people standing up did. The pendulum did kind of move back a little bit. But look, the free market's going to speak here. And I think in Disney's attempt to try to curry favor and win new customers, they kind of almost fired their existing customer base, which is progressive. I mean, that's what Jimmy Kimmel is. That's what his show's audience is. So I think we'll see how long Kimmel lasts here. His contract is up here pretty soon anyway, which is another story that's kind of a subtext of all of this. But look, do I think that the FCC chair and Republicans speaking up got him suspended? Yes. Do I think Democrats speaking up and screaming helped to bring him come back? I do.

[B]

Sean, do you agree with that analysis?

[C]

No.

[D]

So here's what I think is ridiculous. In any crisis, the option is, you know, you acknowledge regret or are somewhat conciliatory. Kimmel hasn't said a word, not one. He has not apologized. He lied. He spread misinformation. This wasn't an opinion gone wrong. He actually is on the public airways. ABC is a broadcast station. They have an FCC obligation to not spread false, misleading information. And he lied to the American people and he incited. Actually he stoked the flames of.

[B]

Right. But we're trying to be forward looking. Hold on.

[D]

I am. Here's my point is that for him to go back on tonight and do this, this is going to further divide and if I were TP USA tonight, I would target every single advertiser that goes on that show and ask for a nationwide boycott because I will, I'll find the name out there. This is what we need to do on the right. This is ridiculous. He has not said a damn word. And for Chuck Schumer and all of these folks to come out and applaud him for what? Because at the end of the day right now, then that means that they are in agreement what he said. So he is further exciting the right. And I for one will not watch him. But I will make sure that I call out every single person that advertises on his show from now until he leaves.

[B]

What if he apologized? Couldn't you find it in your heart to forgive him?

[D]

So you were only apologies six days later, when you got back on, what has he been. He doesn't have Twitter. He doesn't have a statement. He doesn't have a PR machine. He has sat around and done nothing except for worry about himself since this happened. We've had a funeral. Erica Kirk had the courage to stand there and forgive the guy who killed him. And Jimmy couldn't muster two seconds to say, hey, I will.

[B]

But why can't. Why can't you. Why can't you follow her example and forgive Kimmel if he apologizes, guises.

[D]

Because it's not my job to forgive him. Because what he did was wrong. And he ch. He chose not to make a difference. You can only give someone forgiveness once they ask for it. And he has.

[C]

Maybe.

[B]

But maybe he will tonight while you prejudging what he's going to say.

[D]

Because it's not Mark. It's not like he's been in a cave. He has sat back and chose not to do.

[C]

Well, that is. Come on now.

[D]

Oh, it's not. Wait, wait, hold on. What do you mean, come on now? When he goes not to do anything, and he has chosen not to clean this up.

[C]

John, let me finish. What I was going to say is you work for a guy who understood really well the big reveal, right? So perhaps tonight he is going to do that, knowing it will get big ratings, right? I mean, come on now, you and I both know that there. That. That. That game plan would be smart business if you're trying to sell your show. I also want to just say, though, I understand the idea that he's on a public airwave. So you're saying, hey, you say something that's not true, that is different than cable. But if the standard is saying things on TV that are not true and stoking tension, I'm going to keep saying this. Almost all of cable news would be canceled.

[B]

And it's cable. I mean. All right, hold on, hold on.

[C]

I hear you.

[B]

Hold on.

[C]

Your argument is stoking claims and not.

[B]

Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on.

[F]

Stop playing that distinction.

[B]

Hold on. Stop playing that. And.

[F]

And having had.

[B]

Hold on. Stop playing that, guys. Stop playing it. We'll have full coverage of Jimmy Kimmel's statement tonight on the morning meeting tomorrow. All right, so UNGA is going on in New York. We got two more topics to get to and then your questions. So please raise your hand if you'd like in on the conversation. UN General assembly. Generally, my view, having lived in New York for a long time, is that from the General assembly week Through New Year's Eve. You don't want to be in a cab in Manhattan. There's just. There's just no way to get around. And. And that's true for everybody because there's gridlock. And it's especially complicated because the president lives at 56th and Madison and. Yeah, yeah, no, Madison, that's Fifth Avenue.

[C]

The First Avenue.

[B]

Oh, no, Fifth Avenue. Sorry, sorry. Fifth Avenue building. The building. Yeah, exactly. So Fifth Avenue and 56 to the U.N. which is, you know, west, east and south. It can block a lot of traffic. And you could be trying to get to work. And even if you're walking, you can have trouble, but if you're trying to get in a car. So here's a visitor to New York City, a guy from France this morning trying to get to his job, happens to be McCrone, and they won't let him go through. And here, I haven't seen this, but I'm relying on this great tweet. Here's Macron. Can't get through, so he calls Trump to ask Trump to clear him through. Take a look. I'm sorry, President. I'm really sorry.

[A]

Everything's imposing right now.

[B]

There's a border kid coming right now. I'm sorry. If you don't see it, let me post.

[G]

How are you?

[B]

Guess what, I'm waiting in the street because everything is frozen for you. So Trump tells him to walk. Trump says, sorry, just walk. So Macron takes Trump's advice and walks to where he's going.

[C]

A nice night in New York last night?

[B]

Yeah, last night. So, guys, would. Would the best title for this video be A, C' est la vie or B, Mon Dan? Who's she going with? C' est la Vichan.

[D]

It's just. How do you say sad in French?

[B]

That's a good question. Somebody look in Google. I don't know how to say sad. Anyway, like I said, if you're coming to New York, that's crazy. If you're coming to New York between now and New Year's Eve, I recommend city bike or walking. Don't try to take.

[C]

And part of the problem is all the world leaders are in all the different hotels. So, like, everywhere, it's a mess.

[D]

Either A, DS or C. I mean, he should have had a Department of State or Secret Service details.

[B]

Yes, yes. All right, so Trump has not had a meeting or really almost any conversations, I think, with Schumer and Jeffries the whole term. But now that. Now that they've got to figure out what to do about a Government shutdown. Widely reported that on Thursday he'll meet with the Democrats. I think the Republicans are going to, but it'll be the first meeting. And, and let's do a little play acting. Dan, if you're preparing Schumer and Jefferies for this meeting, knowing that there's a substantive series of questions, but also just the optics of the photo op we've seen in these situations, sometimes one side clearly gets the best of it. How should they handle the substance and optics of meeting with President Trump? Assuming whether there's a photo op or they come to the stakeout after, or both, how. How would you advise them to handle that?

[C]

I mean, I would just say to stay. Stay 1. Look for areas where you guys can agree and stay focused on the ACA credit. I think the problem is if they walk in with this menu of what's like a trillion dollars of, of overriding, of, of cuts, I think it gives Trump the green light to smack them around and he's going to have the public on, you know, behind him because it's so unreasonable. So, I mean, my thing would be keep it simple, stupid. Just go in there and say, look, we, we, we can work together to do this. It's millions of Americans. It's a lot of people in red states. Let's do this.

[B]

Sean, how would you prepare the president?

[D]

Well, first of all, I would have told him he should have never agreed to this meeting. I cannot, actually.

[C]

Why he's elevated that.

[D]

Chuck Schumer said, you owe it to us to have a meeting he didn't like. You should never take demands and then allow them to act.

[B]

Why do you think he agreed then?

[D]

Because Trump, he loves this stuff. This is him, like, he loves the idea of doing this and smack and Chuck around. I just, I think that to Dan's point, if, if Schumer can restrain himself, which is a big if, and stay focused on health care and say, Mr. President, this is an American issue. We should all do this. There's a shot he could do something. I think it's a bank shot, but that's. It gives them one opportunity, which is if you had just never given them the meeting, you wouldn't have to worry about it.

[B]

Will, Will there be.

[C]

Mark? I think what the Democrats are going to say is rate notices go out November 1st.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

They're already going to be the largest increase in almost 15 years. Sir, if we don't do this, millions more people are going to see even higher rates.

[B]

Right.

[C]

And if that's the sound bite, he has a Problem if we need to undo all this other stuff, he's going to laugh.

[B]

All right, some series of yes, no questions. Will there be a photo op of the meeting? Yes or no? Sean?

[D]

Yes.

[B]

Dan?

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Will the leaders, the Democratic leaders come to the stakeout afterwards? Yes or no? Sean?

[D]

Yes.

[B]

Dan?

[C]

Yes, immediately. Yep.

[B]

Okay. I think there's not a zero chance this is meeting supposed to be on Thursday. I think there's a non trivial chance that this meeting doesn't happen, by the way.

[D]

Well, that's why I see, I, that's why I said what I, I think that there's a little bit of this is ideal.

[C]

Mark. If, if it gets canceled, that's not a good look for Trump.

[D]

I don't think enough people knew about it.

[B]

Yeah. And also depends on who cancels it. Trump could put on could on conditions for the meeting that causes the Democrats to cancel. We shall see. And lastly, will the Republican leadership be there too?

[D]

Sean that's actually, that's the most important question. And I don't know because I think they should insist on it.

[C]

Yes, that's it.

[B]

Which is, which is, which is the, which is the better relationship now? Thune Schumer or Johnson Jeffries? Which is the better working relationship now?

[D]

I always feel like the Senate has a much more club feel like typically, typically they do.

[B]

But I believe in this case the answer is Jeffreys Johnson.

[C]

I have a question. Will, will JD Vance and, and Susie and everyone and Stephen Miller be in the room?

[B]

Yes. Oh yeah, 100. But they weren't, you know.

[D]

That wasn't the case when, when he met with Chuck, like. But yeah, yeah, I think he walks in and Trump goes. Go full zelinsky on him. J.D.

[B]

Yeah. Now, it's now time for your questions. Please. Melissa, break stride a little bit and unmute. Thank you for joining everybody. Tell us where you are. What's on your mind for Sean and Dan and we're delighted to have you here. Melissa. Uh, what's point A and point B on this walk?

[G]

Uh, my house. And my house.

[B]

And what are you gonna, where do you live?

[G]

Uh, South Carolina.

[B]

Yeah, we're in South Carolina. Awesome. Where do you live in South Carolina?

[G]

The Grand Strand. The Grand Strand.

[B]

Yeah. Awesome. Well, welcome in. Thank you for being part of two Way. Tell us what's on your mind.

[G]

Well, a first time ever joining two Way and got called on. That was really great. So I'm an ob gyn so I feel like I have something to contribute to today's conversation.

[B]

Yes, ma'.

[G]

Am.

[B]

Take your time. Thank You. Thank you for your service.

[G]

Thank you.

[B]

I'm sorry, do you have your own practice?

[H]

Yeah.

[B]

And do your patients take time?

[G]

My own practice right now.

[B]

Oh, awesome.

[G]

I'm putting my own practice now, so I can.

[B]

Amazing. Do your patients take Tylenol? Typically.

[G]

Do. And all of them ask that question. Or should I take Tylenol?

[B]

Right.

[G]

And if most people may not be aware of this, but the lawyer commercials have been playing about this for years. I mean, like, at least five or six years. And so I had done a literature deep dive on this back when I first heard the lawyer commercials. Underwhelmed, because it's very hard to draw causal links in medicine. But more importantly, I looked again, and there's not much new. And I think the problem with any of the broad statements that people make about this is, one, you should really discuss this with your doctor. That's the best person to get advice from. And two, we need. What we did during COVID was we refused to say we are not sure, but out of an abundance of caution, maybe we avoid some of these things. And I think had they maybe taken that approach yesterday, which was to say more of we're not 100% sure. There's some questionable links here. So we're going to, you know, maybe get a little bit more evidence on the topic and do some more studies. I think that would have been better. That being said, the strongest evidence that they have on their side, and this was a link from the hhs, and it's a study I'd read before, was they looked at umbilical cord samples. Sorry, 20 minutes, just finished my third mile. But they looked umbilical cord, Tylenol samples. And if you. The higher, you know, if you had higher rates of that there was a link between ADHD and autism. There was. The question that should come up is who has high levels of Tylenol in their umbilical cords? And the answer would be people had fevers while they're in labor, because people who have what?

[B]

Fever. Fever while they're in labor.

[G]

People who have fever during labor. So an intrauterine infection called chorioamnionitis. I absolutely could believe that there is a link between an intrauterine infection and a link between a neurodevelopmental change. So I think that that's something we should investigate. Who takes Tylenol during pregnancy? Women with fevers. Is there a link between fever in early pregnancy and neurodevelopmental change? I think that's something we should actually investigate. But the only way to Answer the question, can you take Tylenol in pregnancy is to get a couple thousand women, randomize them to Tylenol or no Tylenol and look and see what happens three to six years later. Does anyone know anyone's going to sign up for that study?

[B]

Well, the president, the president says it's the Amish who signed up for the study because they don't take Tylenol and they have lower incidences of autism, but.

[G]

They also have lower instances of soda consumption.

[B]

Yeah. Let's peer review this with our in house Dr. Dr. John. Dr. John, what'd you think of what Melissa said? And we'll probably want to bring some folks in to ask you two questions.

[C]

Thank you Melissa.

[B]

That was grateful to you both for being here. John, thoughts on what Melissa said or questions for, for Melissa?

[A]

Yeah, no, totally. I agree with, with everything she said because even in the, the, the big, you know, new, it's not even that new. Like she said, the, the group of studies that the authors looked at on the recent not even meta analysis because the data were not homogeneous enough to even do a meta analysis, which is what you do when you gather a bunch of studies and try to find an outcome. 27 of them showed a possible association, 13 of them didn't. I think everything she said is right. You don't know whether it's the fevers, which fevers and inflammation, it's a neuroinflammatory process that could certainly be neurotoxic or is it the potentially toxic metabolite of Tylenol that is potentially neurotoxic? We do not know. And I think the danger here that I am most afraid of is we have taken a public health approach in the last few decades, really, but certainly in the last few years of the pendulum swinging to pure population health over individualized risk and benefit. Problem is during COVID we saw that the guidance given was not based on science, it was based on opinion, but presented as fact. So now to have that press conference yesterday when the Wall Street Journal was completely right, that Donald Trump absolutely went out over his skis, said things that his own science team behind him were not prepared to say, that only minimizes trust more when the whole goal right now needs to be to re establish trust. As of January 2024, only 40% of people trust their trust in doctors and yesterday did not move the needle to help that. It only perpetuates the problem because now nobody will really trust either side. And that is so devastating. I would encourage everybody. Last thing, read Dr. Mackerey's two most recent books, the Price We Pay and Blind Spots from either either Side of the Aisle. Here. Read those books and tell me if he is a partisan hack or an unqualified scientist. He should have been leading that press conference yesterday. He would have presented it with the nuance, honesty and truth that people are so desperate for and they deserve. This is like so, so complicated and nuanced and people are desperate for answers. Like we saw with the two wonderful callers yester in the morning and the evening, nonpartisan, non hyper partisan people, parents out there trying to find somebody that they can trust. And that's what we need.

[B]

All right, so glad that both doctors are here. Let's get some questions. I know at least two of the folks I've called up here are going to want to ask about this. We'll start with one of the great maha moms of this platform, Diane. Diane, welcome in opportunity to ask Melissa and John questions about this. Go ahead.

[H]

Okay. About this topic, I guess what I would say is if there are risks, risks associated with any intervention, I would like to be presented with what that is. I have had two pregnancies since the lawyer commercial started and I have been repeatedly reassured that town I was completely safe, Completely safe. When we're doing informed consent and having these nuanced conversations like Dr. Nick and Chuck is saying, like you can't just present something as fact if there is a question about it because I would rather have sore feet and suffer a little bit. And I've had the chorio with my first child that was a complicated delivery. So I understand that there are instances where Tylenol is absolutely necessary. But these nuanced conversations I think need to be completely science based. And if there are risks where we don't know, that's what the doctors in the office should say.

[B]

Yeah. Thank you, Diane. Melissa responded. And then Melinda, if you can unmute, that'd be great because we want to go to you next. Go ahead, Melissa.

[G]

So I completely agree and I think too much of the way we do medicine is you can't do this, you must do that. And that's not the way that we should practice. And the number one pregnancy book that I recommend to everybody is Emily Oster's Expecting Better. And for people who are familiar with her, she's an economist, not an obgyn. And so when she was told you can't have coffee when you're pregnant, she wanted to know why. What are the risks? Show me the studies, show me the evidence. If I can Cut out four cups of coffee a day. And that is how we should approach medicine, is that every choice has risks and benefits, and we should be willing to say what they are from both sides of things.

[B]

Okay, Melinda, go ahead. Thank you, Diane. Melinda, go ahead. Yes.

[H]

So I guess my Maha mom story starts during COVID when I was pregnant with my first and I actually did lose my job because I did not get the COVID vaccine during pregnancy, despite having welcome to my babies. Despite having notes from my doctor and everything.

[B]

Melinda, are we seeing all four? All four, Right. Because. Because every time we widen out, we add a kid, but that's it. It's just four. Okay, go ahead, Go ahead.

[D]

I have to go landscape.

[H]

And I think the comment that I have is that when it was first announced that the COVID vaccine was not going to be recommended for pregnant women, there were some people who asked like, oh, do you feel vindicated? And my response was no, because Donald Trump saying it and RFK saying it is not going to change any of the opinions of the people who put pressure on me.

[G]

Thank you.

[H]

At the time. And so we coming out with the Tylenol stuff yesterday, nobody who. Nobody's going to change their mind other than, like, because it's coming from this administration without the solid science. So basically, like, if this is going to have an impact, it has to come from physicians on both sides of the political aisle, people who are unbiased. And it has to have very solid studies. Yes, it has to have very solid studies where people are going to change their minds because the people who are saying it aren't going to be that influenced.

[G]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay, go ahead, Melissa. Then John, do any of your kids.

[C]

Want to say hello?

[B]

Hi, everybody. Melinda, if you have the capacity, rattle off their names.

[H]

This is Eleanor, Blaze, Ryder and Kate.

[B]

Amazing. Melissa, you missed out on high volume with Melinda. You could have made a fortune. Melissa. And then John, comments on what Melinda said, please.

[G]

So I think that again, during COVID we gave up on individualized risk assessment for patient care. You look pretty young, you look pretty healthy. Maybe you didn't have risk factors for Covid. I'll share a personal story. I was also pregnant during COVID before the vaccine came out. And I am not young, of advanced maternal age and maybe have a little bit of high blood pressure and also didn't have paid maternity leave. And so I took the COVID vaccine when I was pregnant because of those things. And yet not having paid maternity leave actually played a huge deal in that. Cause I also didn't have any paid sick leave. So we should all be able to make those recommendations. But I also think women concerns many things about the vaccine. Like, you know, it went way too far in the, like, everybody has to have this. Everybody has the same risk. No, like if you're over 65 or have comorbidities, your risk was hugely different. And depending on where in that process you were, like, you may or may not have had any risk, like significant risk if you'd already had Covid and recovered, you know, it was a huge mistake that we didn't count natural immunity and you didn't need a vaccine to make you any safer. So, John. Yeah.

[B]

Thank you for that, Melissa. John?

[A]

Yeah. Amen to everything that you just said. And this isn't conspiracy. Dr. Fauci himself has come out since and said, I didn't think that the American people could understand nuance enough. So we just said, everybody should get it. Even in the moment, he knew that wasn't necessarily the most accurate or best advice. So as soon as you say that, it's like crying wolf, right? So now every other time you say something, people are going to be hesitant to say, wait, is this. Which one is this? Is this the one that you're saying because we're too dumb or because it's true? And I have genuinely like very close friends on both sides of this and I, and I see what happens with them when new information comes out and I get so frustrated because on the other hand, last week with the ACIP meeting, it got presented by the media to mostly the left wing bubble as this is the end of the world. There are only nine countries in the world that use the combined MMRV vaccine. Only 12 EU countries even recommend varicella at all. Right? So to present it as this is the end of science, when it's really kind of like this is sort of what most of the rest of the world is doing, seems to be returning to an approach of saying, you people are too, too dumb to understand this. And that's not an approach that makes any sense to me.

[B]

Alexander, go ahead.

[D]

John o', Sean, just tweak real quick. The one other vaccine that got a lot of attention is the, especially among children. And the doctors that I've talked to say that statistically giving it to a young kid whose mother doesn't have a predisposition doesn't make sense. And yet this morning on the Today show, Ann Compton said that President Trump made comments about it without evidence. I've heard evidence. So where, where, when we talk about the Hep B Specifically Melissa and but John, first, please, where do you come down on that one?

[A]

It's, it's perhaps the most perfectly distilled example of what, what we've been talking about, about population health risk versus individualized risk benefit. Right? So I, and I, and I don't want to go into conspiracy or demonization of anybody because I think the vast majority of people that our day to day people working in public health view it as what about, and I'm trying to be as, as peace, love and understanding as I can, they think they view it as, you know, the least of these, the moms who don't have prenatal care. The moms that can't say, you know, because of fear of domestic abuse, that, you know, perhaps I was exposed. But I don't want to say it right now because my partner said right. There are examples where it might make sense to say, all right, we're just going to give it to everybody to, to help a few of these women out there who might be in that situation. But for the vast, vast majority, it should be an option to say what is your risk? And so I think there's a way to approach this conversation without demonizing anybody. That's not to say there aren't perverse incentives for the pharmaceutical industry, because there are. But if you have, you know, the potential for a happy negative mom for a child to get B. Right. So we're talking about 1 in 7 ish million versus 1 in 1 million even for the risk of adverse events right there. There's a really, really valid conversation to be had about why, why are we doing this? What were the incentives that drove this decision? Were they in true patient interest or was there something, you know, more perverse at play? Not even necessarily, you know, profoundly immoral, but just following the incentives of a broken health care system. And I think those are the questions we need to ask.

[B]

Melissa. Thank you, John. Melissa?

[G]

Yeah, so totally agree with everything John said, by the way. Also, those books by Marty Makary are both excellent. I've read both of them. They're both excellent. So this is something that really, really I want to stress. I have met, I've been in OB GYN for like since 2010. I have met two people born in this country of reproductive age who have hepatitis B. There may have been a time where hepatitis B was a big problem. It was before I was in medicine. Like the entire time I've been in medicine, we haven't seen that. We screen everybody for hep B. If you come in with no prenatal care. I probably have a hep B, like, screen on you before you deliver. It only takes a few hours to get it. So we're screening everybody, and we've done such a good job with the vaccination campaign that, like, maybe we don't need to have that same recommendation anymore. I also do want to say, if you have hepatitis B as a mom and you deliver and your baby gets a dose of Hep B vaccine and a dose of Hep b immunoglobulin within 4 hours of delivery, the chance of vertical transmission is almost zero. If we're doing appropriate screening, then we don't need to worry about delivery room vaccines. If we're not able to do that. If you live in a place where you can't get that kind of turnaround on it, then maybe it still is a worthwhile recommendation. But, you know, this is certainly, to me, one that can be deferred for at least some number of months. Both my kids got it after their first birthday, and the second one got it as soon as he did because he could not start, like, attend daycare after 18 months of age without it.

[B]

Right, right. Okay, hold on. Okay, thank you, both doctors. Just to reset here, the President, we're waiting for him to come speak at the UN And I'm told MSNBC is reporting that the President has, in fact, canceled the Thursday meeting with Schumer Jeffries. Alexandra, did you want to ask about this topic or say something or something else?

[G]

Well, seeing how we're on this, I wanted to ask Dr. John and Melissa.

[H]

Said that she had given.

[G]

You were pregnant during the COVID rollout of the vaccine. Vaccine, is that correct? I was. Okay. How many vaccines are they giving? How. How many vaccines does a newborn get nowadays? So the only. The only newborn vaccine, like, in the delivery room vaccine is a hepatitis B. When they're two months of life, they get a tdap, a Hib, which is H influence ib, and they get one more. It's three. It's three shots, and then that's two, four, and six months of age on the current schedule.

[B]

So they are given a hepatitis B.

[G]

Vaccine in the delivery room. That's the current recommendation.

[B]

And how do y' all feel about that?

[G]

As doctors or as obgyn? And as a doctor, if a mom is hepatitis B negative, then it should be the mom's choice whether she wants to do it then or come back and potentially get it later. I do think that, you know, if you ever want to work in healthcare or. My husband worked in Industrial maintenance. He had to have a hep B verified vaccine. So, like, I think that the hepatitis B vaccine is great. I would definitely consider getting it later on. Both my kids, like, they've had it now. They're 4 and 8. They both had it now. But we could do it at a time with my older where there was nothing else on the schedule. There's nothing. There's a gap in there in the schedule where they don't get much. And so we did his Hep B vaccine series. Then.

[B]

Isn't it true that by the time they are even susceptible to get hepatitis.

[G]

B, the vaccine doesn't even work anymore at that point? Correct. Actually, that's not true. So you do want to confirm it with titers, because not everybody's vaccine takes. But once you confirm the titer, then you can pretty much be assured that you're good.

[B]

All right, ladies, I'm sorry to interrupt. We've got a little bit of news to get to. And super grateful to both doctors for coming on. You two don't disagree about very much. So in that way, you're less than ideal guests. But it's nice to have a consensus which is also positive. So thanks to Diane and to Alexandra and to the two doctors. Really grateful to you.

[G]

Well, thank you. And I love Dr. John.

[B]

Yeah, he's America's doctor.

[D]

We're going to see this kind of conversation.

[B]

He's America's doctor. John, thank you. And Melissa, thank you. I hope you'll both come back regularly. Thank you. So the president's cancellation of the meeting on Thursday with Schumer and Jeffries came in the form of one of the longer truth social posts I've seen him do. In a while. I'll read a little bit of it to you.

[C]

And this is why I was just laughing, by the way, not at our guest.

[B]

Yeah, understood. After reviewing the details of the unserious and ridiculous demands made by the minority radical left Democrats in return for their votes to keep our thriving country open, I've decided that no meeting with the congressional leaders could possibly be productive. They're threatening to shut down the government of the United States unless they can have over $1 trillion in new spending to continue. Blah, blah, blah.

[C]

Oh, don't blah, blah, blah.

[B]

Oh, no, it's long. It's long. I can read the whole thing, use up all the time. These radical left views and policies is what allowed me to win the presidential election, including all seven swing states and popular vote in an historic landslide. There's a lot of all caps here. I'M not highlighting. Then he brings up transgender, blah, blah, blah. Otherwise it will just be another long and brutal slog through their radicalized quicksand to the leaders of the Democratic Party. The ball is in your court. I look forward to meeting with you when you become realistic about the things that our country stands for. And then inadvertently quoting Spike Lee, he says, do the right thing, exclamation point. Sean, where does that leave us?

[D]

I just want, when he, when he verbalizes. To go $1 trillion.

[B]

Exactly.

[D]

Well, I think it leaves us with a shutdown that's probably unequivocally going to happen. The question is for how long? Because now he clearly, I, I think the discussion between the staff and Speaker Johnson was, hey, this is not going to end well, Dan.

[B]

But Dan, besides congratulating me on knowing that the meeting was going to be canceled, what else do you have to say?

[C]

I think the question for Democrats now is do they pivot off of this, like $1 trillion, undo the big beautiful bill and just focus on that ACA extension. It splits Republicans.

[D]

What do you, what we're missing, though, is the two step process. There is, there's the short term, which every Democrat has argued in the past for a short term clean cr, which I think Republicans are missing the boat on this. We should be. We're giving you exactly what you offered. And here's the 50 times that you did it.

[B]

Right.

[D]

And great. But then we're almost getting to the second discussion first, which is where the Republicans are missing a messaging point because if they just pivoted back to. We're just talking about a clean CR to continue negotiating, they'll win on that.

[B]

Right. Okay.

[C]

I just want to keep saying it. Health care starts November 1st. Yeah.

[B]

Yep, you're right. All right, Lots to preview. Sean, what do you have tonight?

[D]

Your program, by the way, one other quick thing that's coming up that I want to make sure we're on. The farmers and China is going to be massive. What's happening right now. Crops are coming through and they've got no market to go to because of China. So you're going to have a. Dan talks about aca, but I'm telling you, the looming battle in agriculture is going to be something that, that suddenly becomes an issue that nobody saw coming.

[C]

And we're on and they're not buying.

[B]

And we'll also require 60 votes in the Senate. Sean, what do you have tonight?

[D]

Two things. One, Monica Page, she's TPS Turning Point usa. She's going to come on talking about what they're doing. They had their big first event last night. Michael Knowles, University of Minnesota. They announced a big lineup. Tucker Carlson, Glenn Beck, a bunch of folks obviously get the latest from Turning Point. And then Dan, I'm interested to know if you know our second guest guy named Mike Nellis.

[C]

Oh yeah, sure. All over the place.

[D]

Democrat fundraiser, senior advisor to Kamala Harris. He's coming on to talk about her book.

[B]

Right. Okay. Tons going on. So let me run through this quickly. First of all, next up drops later today. My guests are Ben Ferguson and Meghan McCain and my report reported monologue is on the reaction to the reaction of the assassination of Charlie Kirk. Michael Moynihan is taping his program Today live on YouTube live on Two Way at 4 o'. Clock. Today airs at 7 on YouTube. Michael's guest, Mike Pesca of the Gift. Just join Michael at 4 today and then watch it at 7 if you miss it at 4, 6 o'. Clock. Kristen Davison amongst those who will join me on Two Way tonight at noon. I'll be on with Megyn Kelly. You can watch me there. The three of us will be back tomorrow, 9:00am Eastern Time. And then again, a reminder, if you want to ask questions about the economy or personal finance, join me and David Bonson Tomorrow, 24th of September, 1:00pm Eastern Time for a special conversation for two way community members on the economy. Go to Two Way TV TPBG, the Bonson Group to register to join us at one o' clock tomorrow. Gentlemen, take a nap this afternoon. So everybody's seen Kimmel, although we'll show extensive highlights. And don't forget, while he'll discuss it at the top of the show, he'll make little jokes about it throughout. I almost can guarantee that. So you need to commit 1135-1235 if you want to be in the know, don't expect us to watch for you. Thank you all for watching and being part of 2A. Loved having the two doctors on and all the great questions. Sorry we didn't get to others on other topics, but that's what tonight is for. See at 6. Have a great day everybody. Thank you so much.