Total Weakness!" Trump Ramps Up Pressure on Nervous European Leaders, Slams UK for Giving Up Island

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Morning Meeting (2WAY)

Episode: "Total Weakness!" Trump Ramps Up Pressure on Nervous European Leaders, Slams UK for Giving Up Island
Date: January 20, 2026
Host: Mark Halperin
Co-Hosts: Larry O’Connor, Melissa DeRosa
Notable Guests/Participants: Callers Richard, Mark, Haley

Overview

This episode dives deep into the explosive international fallout from President Donald Trump’s recent escalations regarding Greenland and tensions with European allies. The panel dissects the flurry of late-night “Truth Social” posts from Trump, examines U.S.–Europe relations amidst high drama at Davos, explores the shock and strategy behind the President’s threats of tariffs and possible military action, and tracks how world leaders—including a scathing Gavin Newsom—are reacting. Other pressing domestic stories, such as ICE actions in Minnesota, Epstein investigations, gubernatorial ambitions, and campaign dynamics, are also explored with the usual wit and sharp commentary from the 2WAY crew.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Trump’s Davos Drama & Greenland Gambit

[02:00–10:05]

• Trump’s one-year presidency anniversary is marked by controversy: leaking private texts with European leaders after they leaked his own.
• The President is en route to Davos for several high-profile interviews and meetings, but the news cycle is dominated by his aggressive push to buy Greenland from Denmark and his threats of major tariffs against European nations if rebuffed.
• Trump’s approach: public posting of a flattering note from the NATO Secretary-General (“I will use my Media engagements and Davos to highlight your work there in Gaza and in Ukraine. I'm committed to finding a way forward on Greenland.”) [09:26]
• Melissa deRosa notes collapse of traditional diplomatic decorum:

  “Decorum is dead. Norms no longer exist. And we post each other’s foreign leader tweets and chats.” [10:30]

2. Europe’s Response & Global Economic Jitters

[10:30–17:54]

• European media and government officials are “consumed” by the U.S. threats.
• Markets are spooked:

  “The global markets are reacting to President Trump’s threat to hit a group of European countries with escalating tariffs if the United States isn’t allowed to buy Greenland. As a result, the futures are deep in the red this morning.” [15:27]

• Melissa: The real check on Trump’s ambitions will be the bond and stock markets, not editorials or politicians.
• Larry: Compares the “media chasing Trump” to “cats chasing a laser pointer” – suggesting most outrage serves as predictable theater, feeding Trump’s style.

3. Firebrand Commentary from Davos: Gavin Newsom’s Rebuke

[12:16–13:31]

• Governor Gavin Newsom (D-CA) issues a broadside at U.S. and European leaders:

  “It’s time to fuck up. It’s time to get serious and stop being complicit. ... I should have brought a bunch of knee pads for all the world leaders ... they are being given away. Pathetic.” [12:26–13:07]

• Newsom critiques European leaders as spineless, and implicitly attacks U.S. leadership, calling current conduct “embarrassing” for America.

4. Thom Tillis on Greenland: Blaming Advisers, not Trump

[13:51–15:00]

• Retiring Republican Senator Thom Tillis defends Trump, blaming his advisors for destabilizing U.S.–NATO relations (“Poor Donald Trump being duped by his advisors.” – Mark).
• Emphasizes deep ties between the U.S., Denmark, and Greenland, and downplays need for drama or excessive spending to maintain strategic presence.

5. Is Trump Outmaneuvering Himself? Panel Analysis

[17:13–20:39]

• Melissa: Predicts Trump’s aggressive tactics, especially if the markets respond negatively, could backfire and reduce chances of a successful Greenland deal:

  “It is going to make it more difficult for Europe to just bend over, excuse the language.” [17:54]

• Larry: Suggests Trump often changes policy quietly, despite public bluster; also finds Newsom’s public rebuke of a U.S. president from foreign soil “extraordinary” and perhaps politically damaging.

6. NATO, Europe, & Russia/China: Contradictions and Realpolitik

[20:39–22:59]

• Discussion about Trump, NATO, and the European relationship with Russia/China.
• Both Melissa and Larry reject the idea that Trump wants to “destroy” NATO.
• Larry:

  “It is appropriate for Trump to walk into Davos and do a bit of a victory lap … now that America is once again emerging as an energy force on the planet.” [21:53]

7. Minnesota Protests & ICE Controversies

[22:59–26:36]

• ICE operations and ensuing protests in Minnesota spark panel debate on civil liberties, due process, and law enforcement overreach.
• Melissa: Surprised protests haven’t spread; argues tactics are alienating the moderate center.
• Larry: Offers (government’s) details of alleged criminality, says full information is needed before outrage.
• Melissa: Cautions against overreach, stresses Americans’ right to civil liberties, urges caution before accepting government’s version of events.

8. Epstein Files, Wall Street, and Lingering Scandals

[26:36–28:11]

• Government is slow-walking document releases required by law on Jeffrey Epstein.
• Wall Street connection: Kathy Rummler, current Goldman Sachs general counsel, was extremely close to Epstein—yet faces no consequence, stirring controversy.
• Panel expects developments from upcoming congressional testimony.

9. Elon Musk’s Political Money Moves & Campaign Funding

[28:12–30:47]

• Elon Musk donates $10 million to a Senate primary super PAC (Kentucky), with speculation he’ll give up to $200–$350 million in the midterms.
• Democrats expected to match with billionaire money if House prospects improve.
• Larry:

  “Republicans … like to give it to their churches rather than give it to a politician.” [29:53]

10. Democratic 2028 Contenders: Gubernatorial Prospects

[31:36–34:18]

• Mark and Melissa spar over the effectiveness of Governor Shapiro’s book rollout: Melissa calls it “great for selling books, not running for president.”
• Questions about vetting processes and anti-Semitic tropes in Democratic politics arise.
• Larry:

  “What an incredible indictment … that you can’t pick a running mate because it’s a political liability that he’s Jewish.” [33:59]

11. Kamala Harris’ Future: Growth Stock or Spent Force?

[34:39–37:10]

• Mixed views: Larry says Harris remains a top-tier Democratic contender due to her demographics; Melissa fiercely disagrees, calling Harris “one of the worst things to happen to the Democratic Party.”
• Both agree: party establishment and donors remain conflicted.

12. 2028 Democratic Female Gubernatorial Prospects

[38:03–40:41]

• Abigail Spanberger (VA) and Mikie Sherrill (NJ) are seen as possible presidential or VP picks; panel skeptical but concedes possibilities if they govern well.

13. Listener Q&A: The Legislative Filibuster, Immigration, and Elections

[42:34–49:49]

• Richard (Caller) asks if GOP should end the filibuster; both co-hosts now reluctantly support this.
• Spirited debate about “proof of citizenship” laws and whether Democratic immigration policy is a stealth power grab.* Both Mark and Melissa argue there’s “no proof” immigration is a deliberate ploy to secure districts; Larry argues circumstantial evidence points to political intent.

14. Media Bias and the Minnesota Protests

[52:56–57:03]

• Caller Mark laments media failure to robustly challenge certain DFL talking points on Minnesota unrest.
• Melissa: Asserts from crisis management experience, “You have to draw a hard line … not just with words, but actions.” [54:39]

15. Greenland: Sovereignty, Strategy, and Political Exhaustion

[58:02–61:01]

• Caller Haley voices disgust at dramatic “invade or conquer” rhetoric about Greenland, says political and diplomatic exhaustion could backfire on Trump.
• Larry:

  “Let’s not call them a sovereign nation … they are a wholly owned colony of Denmark.” [60:03]

• Panel reflects on American fatigue with continual international drama and escalating crises.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Gavin Newsom:

  “I should have brought a bunch of knee pads for all the world leaders ... this is pathetic. ... from an American perspective, it’s embarrassing.” [12:26–13:07]

• Melissa DeRosa:

  “This is not what people voted for. ...The tactics need to come down.” [23:49]

• Larry O’Connor:

  “The media chasing Trump is like cats chasing a laser pointer here.” [18:08]
  “Normally [at Davos] the agenda is, ‘what’s America going to do for us?’ … Trump flips the table.” [60:32]

• Panel (on Kamala Harris):

  • Melissa: “She was a dumpster fire. ... She is inauthentic.” [36:21]
  • Larry: “I just took notes on all of that party.” [37:22]

• Greenland Segment Closer:
  Haley (caller):

  “I feel like this is going to backfire because it’s not just this, it’s ICE, it’s the economy ... so much of it is extreme … [and] Americans are exhausted.” [59:58]

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Important Segment Timestamps

• [02:00] — Episode opens with Trump’s Davos & Greenland maneuvers
• [09:26] — Trump leaks NATO Secretary-General’s personal message
• [12:16] — Gavin Newsom’s “pathetic” rant from Davos
• [13:51] — Senator Thom Tillis blames Trump’s advisers
• [15:27] — BBC and global economic jitters over tariffs/Greenland
• [17:13] — Panel: Has Trump outmaneuvered himself?
• [20:39] — NATO, Russia/China, and geopolitics
• [22:59] — Minnesota protests & ICE controversy
• [26:36] — Epstein files & Goldman Sachs ties
• [28:12] — Elon Musk’s Kentucky super PAC donation ($10M)
• [31:36] — Shapiro’s book, veep vetting, antisemitic whispers
• [34:39] — Kamala Harris’ political future
• [42:34] — Caller Richard: filibuster, immigration, and election integrity debate
• [52:56] — Media bias & Minnesota unrest, leadership in crisis
• [58:02] — Caller Haley: Tired of Trump’s Greenland drama
• [60:03] — Panel debates Greenland’s sovereignty, American fatigue

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Tone & Style

The discussion is quick, colloquial, and brimming with sarcasm, insight, and a crossfire of jibes. The hosts hold strong, often oppositional political positions but remain civil, frequently poking fun at themselves and each other. Caller input injects real-world perspectives and pushes the panel into honest, sometimes passionate debate.

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Summary for Non-Listeners

This episode offers a vivid, multi-angle breakdown of the latest in U.S.–European tensions triggered by Trump’s crusade for Greenland, the strain on markets and alliances, and the larger implications for American politics at home and abroad. Expect rapid-fire exchanges, straight talk, and plenty of pointed analysis—plus reminders of how American exhaustion and political spectacle continue to shape the campaign trail as 2026 heats up.

Transcript

[Mark Levin]

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[Larry O'Connor]

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[Mark Levin]

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I was selling AI as a great thing for decades and I was wrong. I was wrong.

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[Larry O'Connor]

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[Larry O'Connor]

We seek the story of our future.

[Mark Levin]

Listen to the last invention on Apple, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[James Patterson]

I'm James Patterson. I write way too many books. Welcome to Hungry Dogs. The title comes from my maternal grandmother, Isabel Zelvis Morris. Nan used to always say, hungry dogs run faster, James. And I've been running fast ever since. Here's what will be coming your way soon, and this is a really terrific list. I think you'll hear from some incredible people like Stacey Abrams. Yay. BJ Novak.

[Mark Levin]

Yay.

[James Patterson]

Kathy Bates, Dolly Parton, Josh Gad. And Pope Leo. Okay, maybe not Pope Leo, but who knows, Maybe he'll show up. Hungry dogs run faster. Thank you, Grandma, for turning me into a hopeless, obsessive compulsive. Listen to Hungry Dogs with James Patterson. That'd be me on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you, thank you. Thank you.

[Mark Levin]

Everyone. Today is the day either when the presidency of Donald Trump comes a cropper or just more of the same. Depends on who you are. One year anniversary of Donald Trump, Donald Trump heads to Davos. We got a briefing from Caroline Levitt and my inbox is filled with people telling me that this is the the last straw, that Donald Trump has never done anything this bad. And he was up late at night truth socialing, putting out the the private texts of European leaders. Although a European leader did it to him first. We will spend a fair amount of our morning meeting talking about Davos and Greenland and Europe and China and Russia, all sorts of things, but also Minnesota. Epstein, Elon Musk, Governor Shapiro, Vice President Harris, and the future presidential candidates of a couple of gals named Spanberger and Cheryl. Could be coming sooner than you think. Welcome in, everyone. Melissa derosa is here. Larry Connor's here. Grateful to have you all. Part of the morning meeting based on network news Vision's morning meetings. If you're here on the platform and you'd like to get in the conversation, please raise your hand if you're watching on X or YouTube. It's no longer the day when we're commemorating Dr. King's birthday. So please feel free to put as much smack in the chat as you want. The reverse psychology will succeed the criticize me in stark personal terms. Say I'm fat, I'm skinny, whatever you want, just go, go for it and see what. See how you. See how you like it.

[Larry O'Connor]

In any event, you know, I was looking at the YouTube chat yesterday and they said that I was old. Old me. Old.

[Mark Levin]

I know, that's a crazy. It just shows you how baseless the smack is.

[Melissa DeRosa]

That's worse than fat.

[Mark Levin]

Yeah, honestly, it really is. Yeah, I'll take old. I'll take old over fat. Anyway, thank you all for being here. Quick go through the daybook and then we're going to get to our conversation about Davos. The President today. Put up the schedule, please. He's got no public events on his schedule. He's doing some signing time at 3 o' clock and then leaves for Davos. But Caroline Bries at one and the Caroline Levitt briefing will be chock a block full of questions about the one year anniversary of the President's second term. But also of course about NATO and what the President plans to say in Davos. Scott Besant is in Davos already and has been talking up a storm with CNBC press conferences on stage event. We'll show you some of that in just a moment. Don't know what the Vice President's doing today, but kind of curious what he thinks of all this because he, he is the kind of what Miley Cyrus would say is he's the wrecking ball of our relationship with Europe and NATO. Senate is out, House is in, although the Speaker's in England where he gave his speech and. Sorry, my, my thing is off here. All right. The House. Complicated. Anyway, the House is doing a bunch of stuff I don't really care about. No offense. 2 o' clock there's a protest. The Free America protest. Do you guys know about this Free America protest at 2 o' clock today? If you're in school or in the office or crossing guard, whatever you're doing, you're supposed to walk out in protest of Donald Trump, one year anniversary of his swearing in. Larry, where will you be at 2 o' clock today?

[Larry O'Connor]

I will be out in, in front of my office screaming at the sky because of the anguish that our nation has had to endure.

[Mark Levin]

Okay, Melissa, where will you be at 2 o'?

[Larry O'Connor]

Clock? That is not what I'll be doing.

[Mark Levin]

I know.

[Melissa DeRosa]

Think I'm gonna be at Fox preparing.

[Mark Levin]

To do a hit. So maybe you'll just have to walk out onto 6th Avenue, also known as Avenue of the Americas.

[Melissa DeRosa]

But I'm sure there will be plenty of that protesting.

[Mark Levin]

I've got a zoom with an investor, a two way investor. Two o'. Clock. You think I should just leave the zoom and do it from the sidewalk? I don't know. Anyway, this, the Supreme Court's hearing a couple cases today and it's possible that at 10 o' clock they'll put out their tariff case, which would make the confluence of the fight over Greenland, Davos and the president's one year into an extra special anniversary. We'll see if they do. Court watchers for some reason are not as poised for them to do it today as they were before. But I think that's because court watchers just get a little lazy and don't like reruns. That's my.

[Larry O'Connor]

How many times can they get it wrong and Exactly.

[Mark Levin]

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[Melissa DeRosa]

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[Mark Levin]

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[Melissa DeRosa]

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[Mark Levin]

All Right. Yeah, it's all right. I meant to plug them.

[James Patterson]

Ironically, I'm James Patterson. I write way too many books. Welcome to Hungry Dogs. The title comes from my maternal grandmother, Isabel Zelvis Morris. Nan used to always say, hungry dogs run faster, James. And I've been running fast ever since. Here's what will be coming your way soon. And this is a really terrific list, I think. Hear from some incredible people like Stacey Abrams.

[Mark Levin]

Yay.

[James Patterson]

BJ Novak.

[Mark Levin]

Yay.

[James Patterson]

Kathy Bates. Dolly Parton, Jos? Gad. And Pope Leo. Okay, maybe not Pope Leo, but who knows? Maybe he'll show up. Hungry Dogs run faster. Thank you, Grandma, for turning me into a hopeless, obsessive compulsive. Listen to Hungry Dogs with James Patterson. That'd be me on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

[Mark Levin]

All right, ladies and gentlemen, there's so much video and stuff we could show you at Adavos. I'm going to try to speed through it here. First of all, reminder. Tonight the President has an interview with Katie Pavlich, who's starting her week at News Nation tonight, 10 o' clock hour. I'm not sure when it's being taped. It says tomorrow, but it's tonight. That's a promo from yesterday. Note to all promo writers, never put tomorrow in. Always say Tuesday, because then the promo will still survive till Tuesday. That's tonight. Then tomorrow she's got an interview with Joe Kernan. Joe is grumbling this morning on Squawk Box. The President's doing a ton of interviews, taking the edge off of Joe's quote, unquote exclusive. And then Thursday, we now know he's doing an interview with Maria Bartiroma. So three interviews in three days, at least for the President. Even as he's meeting in Davos, the President is, last night up late, got back from the game. First he talked as he was departing the game, and then as he got back to the White House, he was all over Truth Social. Maybe did it from the plane, I don't know. Here's one of the tweets the President posted on Truth Social. He took a message, he got, private message he got from the head of NATO about whom he tweeted in a very positive way, and he just posted it. This is in clear revenge, or I should say apparent revenge for a European leader posting the President's messages. Here's the message the President posted that he got from the head of NATO. Mr. President. Dear Donald, what you accomplished in Syria today is incredible. I will use my Media engagements and Davos to highlight your work there in Gaza and in Ukraine. I'm committed to finding a way forward on Greenland. Can't wait to see you. Yours, Mark. I can't believe you didn't say can't wait to see. Yeah, let's pause right here. Even though, even though emoji.

[Larry O'Connor]

Where's the words that. Where's the kissing heart? Emoji.

[Mark Levin]

Melissa, what would happen if foreign leaders and government officials just started posting each other's private text messages? What would happen in the world?

[Melissa DeRosa]

Well, I mean, we're seeing what will happen and apparently the answer is nothing. I mean, we'll see where this. What are we going to do? Threaten tariffs? Are we going to, you know, is this going to be the new form of how we're going to go to war or merge alliances? Who knows? But this apparently, is the world that we're living in. Decorum is dead. Norms no longer exist. And we post each other's foreign leader tweets and chats.

[Mark Levin]

All right, thank. Well said. All right, here we go. Just to give you an idea of the news coverage this morning, just everybody in Davos is just consumed with this. The world media is consumed with this. We've got the tariffs and what Europe's gonna do about the tariffs and their threat of the bazooka and, and, and also the rough language. Here's just a sample of some of the news coverage from this morning. Number 106, please. Got no audio. Got to go back with the audio. All right, here we go.

[Larry O'Connor]

Great accent, though.

[Mark Levin]

She does well. And she says one word in such a funny way, I, I can't remember what the word is, but I can't wait for everyone to, to hear it.

[Larry O'Connor]

Oregano, perhaps.

[Mark Levin]

We'll play it now with the. Exactly. Play it now with the audio. Go ahead. Still no audio.

[Larry O'Connor]

Later today, President Trump will be meeting in Davos and it will be in an aluminium hut.

[Mark Levin]

It's like that. I'm telling you. It's like aluminium. Do we have this with the audio or not? Should we move on.

[Richard (Caller)]

Paul?

[Haley (Caller)]

Go ahead and move on. We'll get it.

[Mark Levin]

Okay. We're going to come back to it because you got to hear the funny words she says. Scott Bessant. We won't play this right now. And, and the speaker of the House very upbeat about what's going on. Relations with Europe have never been better. The US Is going to get its way and everyone will be happy. Here's someone at Davos less happy with what's going on. Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you the Democratic presidential frontrunner for 2028 and Davos man extraordinaire with the hella good hair, Gavin Newsom, 107.

[Larry O'Connor]

Please.

[Mark Levin]

Cannot take their children to school.

[Melissa DeRosa]

They cannot go to the groceries.

[Mark Levin]

For Europeans who are concerned about the.

[Larry O'Connor]

Messages from the White House around Greenland this week.

[Gavin Newsom]

Yeah, it's time to fuck up. It's time to get serious and stop being complicit. It's time to stand tall and firm, have a backbone. I see this in the United States, the supine Congress playing both sides. You know, say one thing on a text or a tweet another publicly. Principle. It's time to stand tall. Tall, strong. Does that mean united? You make that determination. I don't make that determination. But when you say standing collectively, just. I can't take this complicity. People rolling over. I should have brought a bunch of knee pads for all the world leaders.

[Larry O'Connor]

What?

[Gavin Newsom]

Handing out crowns and handing. I mean, this is pathetic. Nobel Prizes, they are being given away. Pathetic. And I hope people understand how pathetic they look on the world stage. I mean, at least from an American perspective, it's embarrassing. So what should European doing? You should decide. The Europeans should decide for themselves what to do.

[Mark Levin]

Wow. We'll get to that in a minute. Here's someone also in Davos, less full throated. Thom Tillis, a Republican senator from North Carolina who's retiring. Often cast as a huge critic of the President, but he's got a new thesis. It's not the President's fault, it's the advisors to the President's faults. Here's Thom tillis on squawk 118, please.

[Melissa DeRosa]

Senator, thank you.

[Thom Tillis]

Thank you. And to be clear, I'm not critical of the President. I'm critical of the bad advice he's getting on Greenland.

[Melissa DeRosa]

Okay, well, let's talk about that.

[Thom Tillis]

You were on the floor of the Senate recently and said, I'm sick of the stupid.

[Melissa DeRosa]

What were you referring to?

[Thom Tillis]

If you take a look at Greenland, They've for about 4,500 years the indigenous people have been there. Greenland is a part of Denmark. They're a great ally. On a per capita basis, they lost as many people in Afghanistan satisfying the Article 5 commitment. The NATO Article 5 commitment. They are great patriots, they're good people. They should be treated with respect. And they should know that Denmark and Greenland would move heaven and earth to have an increased presence there. Like we had at the height 17 bases at the height of our presence there. All of that is possible without spending a dime or having all this Drama. That's what I was talking about.

[Melissa DeRosa]

So what advice do you think the president's getting?

[Thom Tillis]

I think the president, the president needs someone who understands the destabilizing influence. Influence on NATO, the most important alliance in the history of the world, and a group of people who want to work with us.

[Mark Levin]

Poor Donald Trump being duped by his advisors. All right, here's that report. And listen to the BBC lady in her plummy accent.

[Melissa DeRosa]

President Trump has fired off more social media posts asserting his desire to take over Greenland as he prepares to meet European leaders in Switzerland. He marks the one year anniversary of his return to the White House with a barrage of comments on true.

[Larry O'Connor]

To.

[Melissa DeRosa]

Worry European and world leaders, not least this image that possibly sums up his expansionist vision for America. And our top story this morning, the global markets are reacting to President Trump's threat to hit a group of European countries with escalating tariffs if the United States isn't allowed to buy Greenland. As a result, the futures are deep in the red this morning. Risk off equity futures sink while Treasuries join a global bond sell off as Donald Trump's latest tariff threats revive trade tensions.

[Mark Levin]

All right, I could show you a barrage of more comments from the Europeans saying this is horrible, but they want to work it out. I could show you a barrage of American commentators very upset. I just want to show you one more thing. Josh Dawsey of the Wall Street Journal is one of the reporters who everyone in the White House trusts, who's very good sources when his name's on his story. It's almost always something the White House reads carefully. You can take it to the bank. Here's what he says and his story says this morning about what the president, the impact of what the president's done by threatening tariffs and leaving the specter of military action on the table in recent days. He is stunned. Even some aides who now believe it could become more difficult for Europeans to accept any sort of negotiation given the US President's increasing demands. Some of Trump's advisors privately worried that the terrorists and other saber rattling have made a deal to buy the island difficult, if not impossible to achieve. All right, again, there's a million more things we could do, but let's, let's stop the barrage. Melissa, do you think it's possible that the president, rather than gaining leverage and getting a better deal, has in fact now foreclosed the prospect of any deal or a good deal for the United States?

[Melissa DeRosa]

I think that the future of where this goes rests not with the anger of the New York Times editorial board or Republican senators or Gavin Newsom or any of this, it's going to rest on the bond market. You're starting to see what's happening now reflective of similarly what happened with Liberation Day back in the spring when he was threatening tariffs. And all of a sudden you saw the markets collapse and the bond market collapse, and then he pulled back. I think you're going to see the instability in the market dictate more what Donald Trump does in terms of his next move. And I think ultimately there could be a deal, mineral rights, who knows? But I think it is going to make it more difficult for Europe to just bend over, excuse the language.

[Mark Levin]

Yeah. Larry, is Melissa right that if markets don't like what's going on and yesterday they didn't like it, but the US Was close, closed. So we'll have the first day of trading in the US Here now, but the futures are weak. Is that something that could cause the president to have to back down?

[Larry O'Connor]

It could. If one of those hated advisers that Senator Tillis doesn't like, like Scott BESANT, actually says, Mr. President, this is starting to become a problem. And, and I think we have seen the president adjust his policies, or at least his public stance on policies, or he maintains his public stance on policies, and then changes things behind the scenes when nobody's really watching as a kid. So, sure, that could be the situation here. But you know, honestly, watching that montage of reports, it reminds me of the cats in the media chasing the laser pointer here. When Trump does something, knowing that they're going to react and in many cases overreact here as they are. To see Gavin Newsom, an American governor of the largest and most populous state in our nation, go overseas and encourage foreign leaders to stand up to the president of our country. Honestly, I found that extraordinary. And something that I don't honestly think is going to serve him well, maybe with his base, but I don't think it's going to serve him well in the general election.

[Mark Levin]

Melissa, what do you think of that Newsom thing?

[Melissa DeRosa]

No, look, and I'm a Democrat, and I'm all for standing up to Trump when it's appropriate and doing it in the right ways. And I just think that that's Newsom saying provocative things to get Newsom on television and to rile up the far left flank of the party, which right now the only thing they care about is who can shout louder at Donald Trump. And he wants to be seen as more of a formidable adversary than someone like AOC or Bernie Sanders or whoever on the far left is running. But I agree with you. That completely turns me off. I don't. And I'm someone on the left of center and I'm like, what the hell are you doing other than trying to make yourself.

[Mark Levin]

But what about the argument that Donald Trump draws no lines about criticizing people anytime, anywhere, any place? And Democrats can't play by Marcus Queensberry rules against Donald Trump.

[Melissa DeRosa]

But Donald Trump is. I think that Donald Trump is Donald Trump. I don't think anyone can ever replicate him. And I don't think that we should try. I don't think that that should be the goal moving forward. I think that once this era is past us, I'm hoping that there's some sort of return to the center, some sort of return to normalization that he's sort of thrown out the window. But I don't think Trump's not on the ticket next time. Like, I don't, I don't know why we're trying to out Trump Trump when he's not going to be on the ticket next time.

[Larry O'Connor]

Okay, that, that is, it is remarkable how many times people you, you can absolutely say, you're right, Trump does these outrageous things and therefore it's fair game. But you also can't at the same time say, oh, why can't we return to the norms? You cannot have it both.

[Mark Levin]

All right, yes or no. There's no, there's no hedging. You need a yes, no answer from both you. Does Donald Trump want to destroy Naito or strengthen it? Does he want to destroy NATO? Yes or no? Larry?

[Larry O'Connor]

No.

[Mark Levin]

Melissa?

[Melissa DeRosa]

No.

[Mark Levin]

Okay. Just so you know, I have to deal every day with lots of people telling me Donald Trump wants to destroy NATO. Now answer me this. One of the things that really pisses off Donald Trump and his dimwitted advisers, in the view of Senator Tillis, is the Europeans have empowered Russia and China like crazy. Buying Russian oil, trading with China. And so their view is all this hand wringing from the Europeanists in the United States and for the Europeans themselves that Trump is, by dividing NATO is helping Russia and China. The White House finds that to be a bit rich. Larry, what do you think of that debate?

[Larry O'Connor]

I think it's, I think that it is inappropriate and understandable discussion that we need to have.

[Mark Levin]

What kind of, what kind of mealy mouth, weaselly thing is. That is so is the White House, is the White House right that the Europeans don't have a leg to stand on regarding favoring Putin? I mean, they meet, they before the war I met with Putin all the time.

[Larry O'Connor]

I think it's obvious that the Europeans misplayed their dependence on Russian oil and Russian gas. Trump is on the record warning them about it. And now they. They get. It is appropriate for Trump to walk into Europe, walk into Davos and do a bit of a victory lap and say, now can we get down to real business and talk about the realities of where we are globally, especially now that America is once again emerging as a energy force on the planet.

[Mark Levin]

All right, that was the answer I was looking for. Melissa. Yeah, go ahead. Sorry. That's right, Melissa. China and Russia are. For those who are saying this plays right into their hands, does it? Or does it try to reorder the world in a way that would allow the US Long term to, if not beat China and Russia, at least tie them?

[Melissa DeRosa]

I think that it's too soon to tell. I think it could. I think that they're watching this very closely. I think that we don't know yet how this is going to play out. I think ultimately the President will end up making some sort of a deal and this will all sort of deflate, or at least that's my hope. But I think that they're watching this very closely and it could potentially strengthen them. I think we just don't know yet.

[Mark Levin]

All right, get back to us then. All right, Minnesota, a bunch of overnight developments. A lot of second day stories. I'd say the two that stand out for me. One is an American citizen was seemingly again, got to wait till all the reporting's in, but it seems like an American citizen was paraded out of his house in his underwear in the cold and held for a bit by ice, even though he's an American citizen. And second day reporting on Don Lemon in the church continues to anger a lot of people for what went on there in terms of going into a house of worship. Melissa, what stands out to you now in terms of Minnesota and where are we? What's the next beat in the story that will be important?

[Melissa DeRosa]

I'm actually surprised that the Minnesota protests haven't spread like wildfire across the country yet. Like, I'm surprised we're not seeing tons of organized rallies, you know, in.

[Mark Levin]

We'll see. We'll see what happens at 2:00 clock today.

[Melissa DeRosa]

Well, that's the thing. I think that that would be the natural next step of this. It has a lot of, you know, BLM tones to the direction that this could go in. But in that way, both sides have the opportunity to screw it up politically. And I Just don't understand why ICE and the president are not bringing it down a notch, like why they're still doing things like what's being reported. And again, we don't know all the facts yet, so let's wait and see. But dragging an American citizen out who's partially clothed, you know, under the guise of saying they're looking to see who else is there, like, the tactics need to come down. This is not what people voted for. It's not what people in the middle voted for. It's not what people on the center left or the center right voted for. Yes, get rid of people who are criminals. We don't harbor criminals. Yes, we were against Biden's open border policies, but this is not working for anyone on a humanitarian level, on a government level, on a political level. So I don't know why the Republicans don't just recalibrate.

[Mark Levin]

Larry.

[Larry O'Connor]

Melissa, does it make a difference that ICE was conducting an operation against two convicted sex offenders? They had final orders of removal from an immigration judge. This person was living with the two convicted sex offenders and refused to show up any id, any fingerprinting. He refused to submit to facial identification. And therefore law enforcement is like, okay, well, we don't know who you are, but you're with these two guys who are convicted sex offenders, so you're coming with us. Does that make a difference at all in this story to you?

[Melissa DeRosa]

Well, did they have a judicial warrant when they showed up?

[Larry O'Connor]

They don't need a judicial warrant when they're exercising an immigration judge's warrant for removal. That's a red herring.

[Mark Levin]

But, Larry, just. Just to say, before Melissa responds, we don't know that those things are true. That's what the government. That's what the government's asserting, and I think that's what the government's asserting.

[Melissa DeRosa]

This is still America, right, people? Civil liberties still exist, particularly if you're an American citizen. Right? Civil rights exist. Due process exists. So I think we need to understand all of the facts. And once we understand all of the facts, if everything you just said turns out to be true, and then maybe, maybe, maybe, we'll see. But as we've learned, everything else that's happened in the last several months, when something comes out, it's trotted out in the press. Generally speaking, it ends up being far more nuanced in the end than what we are originally told is why no one trusts the government. Why no one trusts.

[Larry O'Connor]

I appreciate your concern about the overreach of federal law enforcement. I'm sure you share it when the FBI does a pre dawn raid on a man who was praying in front of an abortion clinic in Philadelphia. And let me just add to all the people watching, boys and girls, if law enforcement goes into your home and there are convicted sex offenders in your home, don't refuse to show them id, cooperate with them, give them information and you know, maybe law enforcement won't do.

[Mark Levin]

What they need to do if that's what happened. Also, maybe in Minnesota in January, wear some sweatpants. Just a thought. All right, Epstein, it's been a month now. The government's in defiance of a law signed by President Trump about release the documents. It's still not clear all these numbers about millions and millions. A lot of duplicates, a lot of non responsive things. Many lawyers are said to be working on them. The Justice Department seems to not be very urgent about complying with the law. Article in the Wall Street Journal today about the woman, Kathy Rummler, I think her name is, who's the general counsel at, at what's that place called? Help me out here, folks.

[Larry O'Connor]

You're on your own.

[Mark Levin]

Yeah, what's the name of that? Goldman Sachs. Goldman Sachs. Thank you. How she was very, very close to Epstein. Her relationship with Epstein by some measures was a lot closer than Larry Summers. And yet not only is she not canceled, Goldman Sachs is standing by her. She, she's still in her job. Historian Politico says that a lot of House Republicans, including Congressman Boebert who supported release the documents are now saying, yeah, we voted for the law. It's up to the Justice Department to get them out. And finally, of course, there's the fight with the Clintons that's still unresolved about their refusal to testify. So Larry, what's the next beat in the Epstein story that will break through?

[Larry O'Connor]

Pam Bondi is supposed to testify in early February, I believe, for congressional oversight. That'll probably be the next big headline.

[Mark Levin]

Yeah, Melissa.

[Melissa DeRosa]

No, I agree with that. Unless there's something between now and then involving the Clinton subpoena fight.

[Mark Levin]

Okay.

[Larry O'Connor]

And no doubt Ro Khanna will do a Paris conference or many media appearances.

[Mark Levin]

Yes. Or appear on this show. All right, moving on again, a few more topics into your questions. If you want to get in on the conversation, please raise your hand. Elon Musk is giving, has given $10 million to a super PAC supporting one of the three Republican candidates in the Senate race in Ohio. I mean, in, in Kentucky. And that's a lot of money. $10 million to give to a super PAC. It's an interesting primary. The president hasn't endorsed in it yet, Even though Don Jr. And the Vice President are very good friends with the candidate Elon gave 10 million to. Elon is said now to be back on the ranch and the reservation to give a lot of money. Money matters a lot. In down ballot races, Senate and House races, we know that the President's super PAC is raising a lot of money. You can raise money from billionaires, you can raise money from grassroots. And Democrats in Senate races have raised a lot of money. I keep going back to Jaime Harrison, raised over $100 million, almost all of it in small dollars online to run against Lindsey Graham. The Republicans are not as good in grassroots. So my first question to you, Melissa, is are the Democratic billionaires ready to write $10 million checks to match Elon Musk in these midterms or are they still on the sidelines?

[Melissa DeRosa]

No, they'll come around. I mean, the more and more that it looks like we have the ability to take back the House because everything that the President does every day undermines Republicans ability to keep the House. And potentially if Chuck can convince people have a path in the Senate, I think that you'll see the Democratic big money people come off the sidelines and write checks again.

[Mark Levin]

Larry, what about grassroots? Why are Republicans not as good at raising grassroots money in down ballot races as Democrats are?

[Larry O'Connor]

You know, I've always believed that Republicans in general like to give their. When they have a little bit of spare change at the end of the week or the month, they like to give it to their churches rather than give it to a politician. I'll continue to believe that that's the case generally speaking. Thank God we do have some millionaires and billionaires who are able to give more politically. And yeah, I think that, listen, if Mark Cuban can spend that kind of money to win the national championship for the Hoosiers, then it's good for Elon Musk to try to win the House and Senate for the Republicans. It's kind of the same thing, isn't it?

[Mark Levin]

How much will Elon give in the midterms? Need a number. Now for the time capsule, Larry. How much will he give to candidates and super PACs in the midterms?

[Larry O'Connor]

What was this last one? 10 million.

[Mark Levin]

10 million. Just a one candidate super PAC. Yeah. In a primary. In a primary.

[Larry O'Connor]

Let's say, let's say 200.

[Mark Levin]

200 million. Melissa.

[Melissa DeRosa]

I was going to go a little more conservative at 150.

[Mark Levin]

Same number. I'm going, I'm going 350. All right. Governor Shapiro as folks know I'm very high on his prospects of being the Democrat nominee. I currently have him in the top tier with Gavin Newsom. At the same time, I continue to see a pattern with him and with his operation. Not really major league in how they deal with media and with controversy. This book rollout. Okay, so his book's coming. A bunch of news outlets obtained the book. I don't know if they obtained it or were just handed it, but the headlines are about, like, pissing at the vetting process of his running for president, getting a message from Donald Trump saying, don't run for president. I don't really see any, any sign that they know how to roll out a book to be on message to help his political career. Melissa, if, if Governor Shapiro called you and said, how's my book rollout going, what would you tell him?

[Melissa DeRosa]

Well, I was going to say, I think that there's. Is he writing the book and selling the book to sell the book, or is he writing the book and selling the book to run for president? Because, bingo, if he's writing the book to sell the book, they're doing a great job generating salacious headlines of things that may make people who otherwise wouldn't care want to read the dirt about him and Kamala Harris and private conversations with Trump. But is this some great rollout to his history as somebody who grew up in a coal mine and understands the middle class and struggled with adversity and the policy vision to run for president now? So, so it depends on what his goal was. Right now it feels like it's more to sell books than to run for president. But, you know, you'd have to ask.

[Mark Levin]

Him, Larry, will he make the best, Will he make the New York Times Top 10?

[Larry O'Connor]

Yeah, I do think he will.

[Mark Levin]

You do?

[Larry O'Connor]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I do, actually.

[Mark Levin]

I think, I think, I don't.

[Larry O'Connor]

I don't know.

[Mark Levin]

I think it's just, I think the, I think the role, it's been a failure on both counts. Who, what, what's the good dirt that they asked him for? Let me give you an example. If you're vetted to be on the ticket or you have a security clearance, of course they're going to ask you if you have ties to a foreign power. Of course they are.

[Larry O'Connor]

That's a, they didn't ask that. They asked if he was an agent for the Israeli government. That's not the same as ties to a power.

[Mark Levin]

So what if they asked him that.

[Larry O'Connor]

Because it buys into an anti Semitic trope for a campaign and a vetting process that basically openly, not so openly said, yeah, we can't picture.

[Mark Levin]

Because he's Jewish. I don't think there's anything anti Semitic about it.

[Larry O'Connor]

No, I think when it's implied that, well, he could have been.

[Mark Levin]

He could have been.

[Melissa DeRosa]

He could have been that whether it was right or wrong during the primary had been trickled out, which is that she didn't want to. Also, she was concerned about having a Jewish person on the bottom of the ticket. And it confirms that narrative at a time when the Democratic Party is particularly vulnerable to charges of anti Semitism. For good reason. Because we prop up people like Zoron Mumjami.

[Larry O'Connor]

That's right.

[Mark Levin]

But she did. But she's not. She's not. But she's not saying, I'm not picking a Jewish person or gay person because they. Because I'm prejudiced. She's saying, I wouldn't. I wouldn't pick them because they're a political liability. What's wrong with being smart about the prospects of what could be a political.

[Haley (Caller)]

I don't know.

[Melissa DeRosa]

I would love to know where their vetting process was on Tim Waltz.

[Larry O'Connor]

Well, that's him.

[Mark Levin]

If he was a Chinese agent, you.

[Larry O'Connor]

Know, that is an incredible. Yeah, they should have asked him if he was a Chinese agent. There's more evidence of that, Mark. What an incredible indictment, though. It's true that it is a political liability in the Democrat party circa 2024 and certainly now in 2026, that you can't pick a running mate because it's a political liability that he's Jewish.

[Mark Levin]

This is the party that put Joe.

[Larry O'Connor]

Lieberman on the table.

[Mark Levin]

But it's not because. It's not because he's Jewish. It's because he's got positions on Israel that are.

[Larry O'Connor]

That are.

[Mark Levin]

That are anathema to a lot of.

[Larry O'Connor]

People in the party.

[Melissa DeRosa]

Name was Derosa. Would they have asked him if he was an agent of the Israeli government if he'd spent.

[Larry O'Connor]

We're turning on you, Mark.

[Mark Levin]

If his name. If his name was Derosa and he'd spent time on a kibbutz and. And working. I think he worked for the Israeli embassy, didn't he, when he was a staffer? I think he did. I may be wrong about that. All right, you guys, we'll come back to this because I'm telling you, it's going to come back up. Kamala Harris gets another love letter today from the media Politico story saying her book tour is going really well and she's got a lot of appeal to voters in the Democratic Party, I continue to be bombarded by people telling me she's done, she's kaput, not for president, but even for the nomination. I continue to see lots of signs that in fact, she is one of the top candidates for the nomination if she goes for it. Here's the headline. Kamala in La La Land. She did buy an $8 million house in Malibu. I'm not sure how that fits in with being a strong candidate, but Larry, keep asking the question. I don't know if you had time to read the Politico piece or not, but do you see her as a, as a, as a growth stock, as a rising prospect or this is all just hoo ha and in fact, she's doomed.

[Larry O'Connor]

By the way, it was beachfront property in Malibu which sort of undercuts the whole rising tide of the seas because of global warming thing. I think she's. If she wants to, she is an immediate number one or number two candidate because of her appeal to women voters and black voters and, well, black women voters specifically. That's a big deal. So she must be taken seriously. By the way, I think the. Considering how they handed her the nomination last time around, I think they should do it again. Suspend the primary process. I mean, stay true to what you really believe. They told us she was a transcendent political figure and she was the best candidate possible. No need for a primary process. So do it again and just give it to her again. Coronate her. Absolutely.

[Melissa DeRosa]

Melissa, I think she the worst things to happen to the Democratic Party and I really wish you go away. And I do not buy into this idea that women support her. I do not buy into this idea that she automatically would be in the top, you know, two, three, four slots. When she ran in 2020, she was a dumpster fire. When she ran in 2024, it was worse. And just because there are certain people who were attached to her candidacy or who like her for certain reasons are going book tour events does not translate into primary victories. She is inauthentic. She doesn't land punches very well outside. I will give her credit on this. On the debate stage with Trump, she did a good job. But in general, I think she's too vicious in some ways. In some of her attack lines, I don't think she has any policy vision.

[Mark Levin]

And I think along you've had flanked Larry, Larry.

[Larry O'Connor]

Turn the page.

[Mark Levin]

Larry's. Larry's. Larry's. Larry's. Larry's head of conservative commentators for Harris compared to you.

[Larry O'Connor]

Yes. No, I just, I just took Notes on all of that party.

[Richard (Caller)]

All right.

[Melissa DeRosa]

On fire to hand the White House back to Trump in 2024 with Kamala Harris.

[Larry O'Connor]

Of course, Melissa is right, by the way, but it's just remarkable that a year ago she was. Remember the day after the election where they say she ran the perfect campaign. She's the great. I'm not saying you said that, Melissa, but that was. No one said that was the conditional wisdom.

[Mark Levin]

No one said it. The day. No one said that. The day after the campaign they said that. Five days in the joy. That joy.

[Melissa DeRosa]

Oh, and the donors all got on the phone and they said, you've got some explaining to do.

[Larry O'Connor]

You go, even the Pod Save America people, they refuse to criticize her.

[Mark Levin]

All right, one day, one more topic. And then to your questions, please raise your hand if you want in the conversation. If you've never raised your hand, today would be a good day to do it. All right, Spanberger and Cheryl. Today Mikey Sheryl is being sworn in as governor of Virginia. Spanberger was sworn in a few days ago before they were in the general election as they became the nominees of their party, one with a contested primary, one pretty much not. They were being touted as potential presidential candidates or vice presidential picks. In 2028, they both ran into some disturbance. What's the right word? Not disturbance. Turbumps. Turbulence. There you go. Turbulence. That's what I was going for. Turbulence in the general election. And people started to discount the great mentioners. Start to discount. And any notion that either would run for president. Spanberger, of course, is in Virginia where they have this crazy rule you can only have one consecutive four year term. So she's a lame duck. Today Cheryl could run for re election, but she's got, it's said to have had the stronger presidential ambitions in the absence of very many strong female candidates and with the prospect that I might end up being right and Gavin Newsom doesn't run, leaving a massive vacuum. Do you rate, how do you rate those two governors as potential presidential, not vice presidential, presidential prospects in 2028? Melissa?

[Melissa DeRosa]

I don't rate them at all. Let's, let's see. What, let's see. You know, I'm a big believer in actual governing and you know, things like accomplishments and showing.

[Mark Levin]

Okay, but, but do you think they'll be, but do you think they have a good chance to be successful governors?

[Melissa DeRosa]

I think it's too soon to tell. Obviously they ran good campaigns. Let's see how they do governing.

[Mark Levin]

Okay, Larry, if they govern well, would you say they have A good chance to turn right around and run for president.

[Larry O'Connor]

I think they're, I think Spanberger more so than Cheryl. I think just because of proximity, Spanberger is going to have an edge and I think that she'll be a very attractive running mate.

[Mark Levin]

Proximity. Proximity to what?

[Larry O'Connor]

To D.C. and the D.C. it's more.

[Mark Levin]

It's more important to be proximate to New York, by the way.

[Larry O'Connor]

You think so? Says a New Yorker. But let me just say one thing that Spamberger has going for her is the radical stuff already coming out of Richmond from this new Democrat majority. She's going to pick and choose some things to veto so that she can maintain this aura of moderate Democrat, which she really isn't. But she's going to do that and that's going to make her look more of a center candidate. And if the top of the ticket for the Democrats is a republic or as a man, I think that it will make her a very attractive running mate.

[Mark Levin]

I'm going to ask you guys the silliest question I've ever asked co hosts on this show.

[Richard (Caller)]

Okay, ready?

[Mark Levin]

Here we go. And Melissa, I take it neither of them is governed yet, but just go with me here. If this is the general election matchup in 2028, who wins?

[Richard (Caller)]

Ready?

[Mark Levin]

Vance Rubio, Cheryl Spanberger. Who wins that general election? Melissa?

[Melissa DeRosa]

I'll go with. I'll go with the Democratic ticket on this one. But again, that is an absurd question.

[Mark Levin]

It is absurd, Larry. Who would win that general election?

[Larry O'Connor]

Vance Rubio. I think I'm pretty confident with that.

[Mark Levin]

Yeah. All right. All I can tell you is I think One of those two ladies will be on the ticket in 2028. I really do. That's just my spidey sense. We'll see. All right, a quick word from a sponsor, then your questions. CB Distilleries offering viewers of this program 25 off everything on the website CBDistillery.com promo code 2 WMM if your new year's resolution was to get better sleep, here's an opportunity to use a product used by over 2 million Americans to sleep better, feel better and start the year off right by getting more rest. CB distilleries products. 90% of them of their customers say they get better sleep. Has options for all sorts of things. Better sleep, stress relief, mood and pain after workout. Everything from CB distillery premium quality third party tested free of artificial dyes and fillers and they have 100% money back guarantee. So if you want to start off your new year better sleep, less stress, try the products from CB Distillery, go to cbdistillery.com promo code 2WMMCB distillery.com promo code 2wmm to save 20% off or 25% off everything on the entire site. Thank you for your attention to this matter. Richard, welcome in. Thank you for being part of Two Way on Mute. Tell folks where you are and what's on your mind for Melissa and Larry, about whom we'll have some news later in the program.

[Richard (Caller)]

Good morning, Mark. I'm here in northern Colorado in Tunnith outside of Fort Collins. My question is primarily for Larry and I'm going to change the course of the ship a little bit.

[Mark Levin]

Yes, sir.

[Richard (Caller)]

What are the odds and what is your take on the legislative filibuster? Should the Republicans blow it up before the midterms and get a bunch of things done? Because I'm of the opinion the Democrats are going to do it one day anyway.

[Larry O'Connor]

Yeah, I used to be very reluctant to do it because I am a bit of an establishmentarian, not an established. I like the norms and I do.

[Mark Levin]

Just to be clear, Larry likes his soccer balls black and white. You don't want to see orange and yellow soccer balls.

[Larry O'Connor]

Perfect example in the World Cup.

[Mark Levin]

Sorry to interrupt. Go ahead, Larry.

[Larry O'Connor]

And with the hexagon. No. Is it a Pentagon hexagon shape? That said, I think you're right. We know that Democrats will get rid of the filibuster because they attempted to do it. And were it not for the senator from West Virginia and Arizona, it would have happened. So we know they're going to do that. And knowing the kind of things that can get done without the filibuster, I think that the Republicans need to make a case. This is why you need to keep us in power, because look at all these great things that we're doing, not least of which the Save act and moving voter ID and proof of citizenship for voting. That could be a game changer if we can actually get that done. So I'm, I've now reluctantly reached the point where I think Republicans do need to do that.

[Mark Levin]

Melissa.

[Melissa DeRosa]

I think fine, if the Republicans do it, they just then have to be prepared for when Democrats are in charge of the Senate to no longer have that to hide behind, too. So if both sides are comfortable with that, I, I do think that the logjams in the Senate are making it so nothing ever happens at the federal level and it should go.

[Mark Levin]

Richard, why is this top of mind for you today?

[Richard (Caller)]

Well, Larry said the same act. That's a huge part of it for me. Because the last year I am completely changed my opinion on the integrity of elections. And I'm convinced that a lot of things that are going on, especially in regards to fraud in America, are the Democrats trying to buy votes. And it's the only, you know, Occam's razor. It's the only explanation for what Biden did on the border for four years, letting everybody in.

[Mark Levin]

Well, it's not the only explanation. There are other explanations. And, and Richard, I just asked where, where's, where's the proof that that plan is underway or has succeeded? Where's the proof that you'd look to for that?

[Richard (Caller)]

I don't have proof.

[Mark Levin]

Okay, Melissa. Well, go ahead, Larry.

[Larry O'Connor]

I would quickly, I would point to the proof that the, the influx of illegal immigrants over the last several years has solidified redistricting, or I shouldn't say redistricting, but the, the districting and appropriations of congressional seats in certain states so that the Democrats could maintain a number of seats in the House of Representatives. That's pretty palpable. And, and there's a reason why so.

[Mark Levin]

Many of what states are this.

[Larry O'Connor]

California, Illinois and New York, where they had a huge. And Maryland, by the way, a huge influx of the illegal immigrants that were actually brought to those states.

[Melissa DeRosa]

Let me just point out that the illegal immigrants that came to New York were bussed here by Texas and Florida.

[Larry O'Connor]

No, a very small percentage, the vast majority of them were flown there by the federal government. That, that's a fact.

[Melissa DeRosa]

Well, let me just say that New York has lost a congressional seat since the last census. So if that was the plan, we screwed that.

[Mark Levin]

Yeah, it's not working too.

[Larry O'Connor]

It would have been even more.

[Melissa DeRosa]

And would have been even more. I know that it may be inexplicable because of how badly the border was botched, but I don't think that Joe Biden's reversal of the remain in Mexico policy was some secret plan to get more Democrats elected. I think that it was an ideological position that may have been held by him for some moral reasons that was very badly botched in implementation. But a lot of things I don't think it's some secret plan to throw.

[Larry O'Connor]

But it was the net result.

[Mark Levin]

But, but, but Larry, if to throw out the accusation without evidence seems like not the proper way to behave on the National 10 Square. There's no evidence for it. Melissa offered what I believe is the correct explanation for what Joe Biden did. You have no evidence. Well, and it's kind of an ideological affinity with the notion that people should be allowed to come here in great numbers and not wanting to have to sign the solution to the border that would involve cages and deportation and family separation. There's all sorts of reasons he did it. And again, but offer proof, offer proof.

[Larry O'Connor]

Okay, circumstantial evidence. So circumstantial evidence is in fact evidence. Right. And when you add to not only the policy that allowed so many people from any country on the planet to come here and add to that that they were in fact by policy of the Biden administration flown to and relocated to places like New York, Illinois and California, add to that the Democrat elected officials who encouraged that and wanted them to be there and in Gavin Newsom's case offered government funded health care to keep them there and attract them to those states.

[Mark Levin]

That doesn't mean they're voting. Doesn't mean they're voting.

[Larry O'Connor]

And add to that Democrats currently oppose a law that would require proof of citizenship for registering to vote. That's all circumstantial evidence, isn't it? And I'm not saying they're voting. Excuse me, I didn't say they were voting. I said that they're merely presence there as non citizens still account for the distribution of congressional House seats in those states. They don't have to be in the country legally to be counted for appropriations of congressional seats. And that helps Democrats maintain power. Now if that's not enough proof for you, I understand that. But from my perspective and for conservatives perspectives, and I think from Richard's perspective, that's a whole lot of circumstantial evidence that stacks up to a conclusion that is reasonable to reach.

[Melissa DeRosa]

Okay, But I just want to repeat on the facts, in New York, for example, since the last census we lost a congressional seat.

[Larry O'Connor]

So yes, and it would have been even more.

[Melissa DeRosa]

That's number one. And number two, the migrants that were bused, shipped, flown to New York nearly collapsed the housing system and the budget. Eric Adams was screaming from the rooftops to get them out or for help. And, and it wasn't something that Democratic states wanted. I thought that it was a brilliant play by the Republican, politically by the Republican border governors to say have a taste of what we on the border have to deal with every day when people cross the border.

[Mark Levin]

So I do not think let's, let's, let's add Richard back in and then we'll move on. Richard?

[Richard (Caller)]

Well, I agree that it's all circumstantial. I'm not taking anyone to court to try to convict them of anything. But again, the preponderance of evidence is overwhelming in my opinion. And I just think that the Republicans like what they did in Indiana. Trying to be noble with redistricting was ridiculous. They need to blow it up, get a bunch of stuff done and they need to start playing more dirty because the Democrats have no problem playing in the mud and Republicans do.

[Larry O'Connor]

This is what I love about Two.

[Melissa DeRosa]

Way because I think it's rich. Both sides think the other side is better at it.

[Larry O'Connor]

Richard, Richard brought in the topic. We are completely energized about it, yet respectful. This is why Two way is so great. Because it took Richard to bring this in here. I am still. Melissa, can you at least explain the principled reason why Democrats would oppose proof of citizenship to register to vote?

[Melissa DeRosa]

I don't know that we have enough time in the remaining 10 minutes of this show to have the debate back and forth on that.

[Mark Levin]

Not a debate.

[Larry O'Connor]

I just wanna know what the principled reason against it.

[Melissa DeRosa]

People who are here illegally to vote.

[Mark Levin]

Yeah. Richard, let me ask you one question before you go, which is, is not directly on topic, but I just want to get a sense. How do you feel about the president's mass pardon of those convicted of crimes connected to January 6th?

[Richard (Caller)]

I'm not a huge fan of it. I don't believe that, you know, those people did illegal things and I, I think that a lot of their sentences were extremely harsh. And I'll admit I not a.

[Larry O'Connor]

Too.

[Richard (Caller)]

Well read on the facts of it.

[Mark Levin]

Okay. How do you feel about the president's threats to use military force to take control of Greenland?

[Richard (Caller)]

I'm totally opposed to that.

[Mark Levin]

Totally opposed to that. Okay. And how do you feel about the president's taking Maduro in Venezuela by force?

[Richard (Caller)]

I was supportive of that.

[Mark Levin]

Supportive of that. Okay, Richard, thank you. Grateful to you. Thanks for being part of two ways. Mark, welcome in. Tell folks who don't know where you are what's on your mind for Larry and for Melissa after you unmute.

[Mark (Caller)]

Yeah, I'm in Cazenovia, New York, which is in central New York, near Syracuse. It's cold there.

[Larry O'Connor]

You look like you're in Superman's Fortress of Solitude.

[Mark (Caller)]

Yes, I know. I love icicles. Our house is covered in them.

[Mark Levin]

Mark, is that real icicles right behind you live?

[Mark (Caller)]

No, but it does. If you look out on my neighborhood here, there's plenty of ice like that. It's only nine degrees here. I mean, people in central New York are still wearing. Wearing shorts and parkas. So, you know.

[Mark Levin]

All right, well, welcome in. Yeah.

[Mark (Caller)]

Okay, so I have a quick comment, a Question. And if you're interested at the end, a political trivia question. So my comment is about Kamala Harris. She's not running for president. I guarantee it. And the reason is. Any of you ever lived in Los Angeles? I don't know, but I lived there for 30 years working in Hollywood. And you know what's more attractive than running for president? Being a celebrity in Los Angeles. That's why Meghan and Harry moved there. That's why the Beckham's moved there. That's why Wayne Gretzky went to play there. Because there's nothing like being a celebrity in Hollywood. Just like that graphic you showed. And it's much more fun to go to cocktail parties with Tom Hanks and, you know, of Julia. Whatever.

[Mark Levin]

Yeah.

[Mark (Caller)]

Any celebrities? It's much more fun than getting on a plane that's not Air Force Two and going to Minnesota.

[Mark Levin]

Yes. Okay, so you think she'll pass because she likes her current life?

[Mark (Caller)]

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

[Mark Levin]

Okay.

[Mark (Caller)]

Malibu on the beach versus campaigning in Iowa.

[Mark Levin]

Okay, we'll see. All right, Mark, what's your question? Thank you.

[Mark (Caller)]

So the question is about the media and the messaging on Minnesota. So I can see the messaging. I saw Fry on, like every Sunday show, I think. And the messaging that they're giving is they're taking random people. They are questioning only brown people. That all these things that are going on with the messaging on the left, and it's basically never challenged on any of these shows. You know, people say, well, that's not true. Whereas I see Kirsten Welker, you know, trying to get Kristi Noem on 20% on some statistic. So the media unfairness will give you that. But I just wonder how you all feel about this commentary that nobody seems to be correcting Waltz and Frey and Ellis and all these people basically saying the exact opposite. Not one of them has said, turn it down. On our side, you know, people are painting cars. And that's my comment. That's got me or my comment.

[Mark Levin]

They have urged peaceful protests.

[Mark (Caller)]

Yeah, but they haven't said, well, stop painting cars and stealing things and throwing ice balls at.

[Mark Levin]

They effectively had. When you say repeatedly, as they've done since the first day, don't respond to this with violence and lawlessness. Respond to it with First Amendment activity. They have said that.

[Mark (Caller)]

Well, it just hasn't been my perception.

[Larry O'Connor]

I don't think people are listening. Right. I mean, it's one thing to say it, but what kind of feckless leadership is it if everyone ignores them and they just keep saying the same Thing.

[Mark Levin]

Melissa, you were the defect. You were the de facto governor of New York. If you were the de facto governor of Minnesota, how would you. How would you be handling this differently?

[Melissa DeRosa]

I'm not sure Andrew Cuomo would like that comment. Oh, look, as somebody who was the number two in New York during the George Floyd riots, after the George Floyd murder, it was terrible. And people were. There was this very careful balance between the allowing for the First Amendment. Yes. But saying absolutely not. And you have to draw a hard line on any criminal activity, damage to personnel or property, harassment of law enforcement, etc. And in our instance, Bill de Blasio was mayor of New York City. He was more concerned about the politics of the left. And so he didn't want to properly deploy the correct number of NYPD for fear that it would upset the left. And Andrew Cuomo had to step in and say, if you don't do your job, I'm going to do it for you. And very forcefully hold the line. And we were at the same time dealing with Trump in the White House, who was saying, if you guys don't get your act together, we're going to send the National Guard. So I've lived through a very similar experience to this. And it can get out of control very, very quickly. And that's why you've got to step up and you got to step in forcefully and lay down the law. And you've got to do it not just with words, but with actions. 100%, I agree, Larry.

[Larry O'Connor]

I commend Melissa for all of that and for calling them riots. By the way, there are some people who still refuse to call what we saw in 2020 riots.

[Melissa DeRosa]

Mark, I share your ass on 5th Avenue and burning police cars. That is not acceptable. And those of us who care about the First Amendment have to toe the line on the difference or else we give the other side the ability to undermine us.

[Larry O'Connor]

Mark, I share your frustration with how the media handles it. You know, I did to be. I got to say, Margaret Brennan, at least with Mr. Fry, Mayor Fry, actually said, aren't you a little over the top here? Aren't you going a little far? But calling ICE an occupating force, occupying force. Jake Tapper asked one question with no legitimate follow up, but I wish more of these journalists would ask these questions, which is, you know, DHS says that if you just got rid of your sanctuary policies, like other states where we're not seeing this kind of chaos in the streets, ICE would be able to take custody of these criminals who have active deportation detainers on them, and they'd be able to do it in the safety of a police headquarters or a jailhouse. Why don't you do that? Why don't you relinquish these sanctuary laws? That needs to be asked more.

[Mark Levin]

Yeah. Mark, thank you. Grateful to you. Politico reporting that Congresswoman Julia Letlow did announce her primary challenge to Bill Cassidy today.

[Larry O'Connor]

Oh, there you go.

[Mark Levin]

Louisiana Senator Ray so. So now John Thune is going to have to step up and say what he thinks about his incumbent because the president's endorsed Letlow already.

[Larry O'Connor]

Mark, who's the. Do you know who's running the Republican Senate Committee this year?

[Mark Levin]

You mean who's the senator? Who's the chair?

[Larry O'Connor]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mark Levin]

Is it Mike Rounds? Somebody will check. I think it's Mike Rounds.

[Larry O'Connor]

No, I can't remember. But their job just got a lot more difficult.

[Mark Levin]

Yeah, that's for sure. Haley, welcome in. Have you ever been. Someone check and see if I'm right about Mike Rounds. I think he's the head of the nrcc. Haley, have you ever been a secret agent for the Israelis or the Chinese?

[Larry O'Connor]

Oh, here we go.

[Haley (Caller)]

I was in the idf, so I would be probably canceled from ever running for president, that's for sure.

[Mark Levin]

All right, what's. Haley, welcome in. Thank you for being here. What's on your mind?

[Haley (Caller)]

Thank you, guys. So I wanted to talk a little bit about Greenland, and I'm coming this from an independent point of view. I also want to preface and say that I do not have Trump Derangement syndrome.

[Mark Levin]

Sorry to interrupt you. It's Tim Scott. Tim Scott.

[Larry O'Connor]

Tim Scott.

[Mark Levin]

Yeah, of course. Go ahead. Go ahead. Alex, Sorry to interrupt. Go ahead.

[Haley (Caller)]

So I just like, I don't have Trump derangement syndrome. I'm open to both Democrats and Republicans. I'm very. Try to be as objective as possible. I just want to bring about the point of view of. I think a lot of people have. I've spoken to a lot of. A few people in the community and I'm kind of like disgusted by the way things are going about with Greenland. I hear words like conquer and invade a completely sovereign country. And we can talk about all the nuances of why this, you know, China. And I understand all of the complexities behind it. But. And I very, sometimes, most of the time when Trump speaks, I laugh. That's how I kind of like just move on. I don't. I don't like to get stuck in the head of everything he says. But the way that this is playing out is just really Exhausting. And, like, I feel like this is going to backfire because it's not just this. It's ice. It's, you know, the economy. The way he goes and just wants to put tariffs on countries he doesn't agree with. Like, it's so much of extreme. What I view is just like, extreme. Not extreme policies is the right word. But, like, the way he does things is so extreme that I feel like this is just going to backfire in a big way. And I just, I don't know, I feel like it's. My point of view, let's say, is not represented so much here. And I just wanted to put that forward.

[Mark Levin]

Thank you for that. Thank you for that, Haley. We're up against time, so Larry, go ahead.

[Larry O'Connor]

I understand. And that's nothing new to be frustrated with, the way Trump goes about doing things. I would only say nobody disputes the strategic value of Greenland. Let's not call them a sovereign nation, by the way, because they are a wholly owned colony of another nation, Denmark. So that doesn't make them sovereign.

[Haley (Caller)]

But they have their own prime minister, don't they? Like, they, they make their own decisions.

[Larry O'Connor]

Yeah, that doesn't make them sovereign. I don't know if they make all their decisions.

[Mark Levin]

They're sovereign. Ish. They're sovereign. They do.

[Larry O'Connor]

They do have sovereign adjacent.

[Mark Levin]

Sovereign adjacent.

[Larry O'Connor]

But I would, but I would say, you know, normally going into the World Economic Forum, the agenda is, what's America going to do for us? How are they going to solve Ukraine? What are they going to do about climate change? What are they going to do about this? He has, as I likened it yesterday to, you know, flipping up the table in Real Housewives. The agenda is changed now and I think that this is just the way he goes about doing it. It's not comfortable, it's not pretty, and sometimes it's not funny. But I'm still, I'm still optimistic that a good result will end up for America.

[Mark Levin]

Yeah, Haley, thank you. Got to do some business here, but thank you. First of all, I just got. I love to weigh and love how we get so much feedback. I don't read the chat, as you know, so if there's feedback in there, I'll never see it. But here's. Though I do glance, I saw someone say, what happened to Mark? Used to be a serious journalist, now he's smug.

[Richard (Caller)]

No.

[Mark Levin]

No contradiction there, folks.

[Larry O'Connor]

Anyway, we're not mutually exclusive.

[Mark Levin]

Exactly. Here's an email I just got. I'm not going to read the whole thing because there's Some in here. Some stuff in here. Cause the FCC violation. But first sentence, please have Larry and Melissa on again. My husband said to me, mark needs to know what a great show this is. And then the P.S. ladies and gentlemen, P.S. larry gets a little wild, but we're always happy to see him. Ladies and gentlemen, some news about wild. Larry got a new job. Put this up. This is the most anachronistic photo of a celebrity since Cindy Adams Town hall media announces Larry o' Connor is new editor of Town Hall. Larry, congratulations. What does that mean to be the editor of Town Hall?

[Larry O'Connor]

That means I got fewer hours in the day. But Town hall is one of the original conservative opinion sites and journalistic endeavors. Katie Pavwich has been the longtime editor in chief of Town Hall. She has left recently. She started her show at News Nation. And they've asked me to fill in some of the gaps there in the editorial offices. And I'm thrilled.

[Mark Levin]

Congratulations. Tell us how old that photo. Yes, how old is that photo, Larry?

[Larry O'Connor]

It's only a couple of years old.

[Mark Levin]

What is the problem?

[Larry O'Connor]

That's like. I do need some of your headshots.

[Mark Levin]

Is that your yearbook? High school yearbook photo.

[Larry O'Connor]

That. Except, excuse me, that is from. I want to say that was. It was the Biden era, but I would say 22. That's three years ago. Four years. What is that?

[Mark Levin]

Okay, excuse.

[Larry O'Connor]

I've seen some pictures of you floating around there. Hallelujah. Look like you.

[Mark Levin]

I'm from. I'm from the Cindy Adams School. Use the first picture you got and never change it. Melissa, besides congratulating Larry, anything you want to say?

[Melissa DeRosa]

I just wanted to.

[Mark Levin]

Anything to promote?

[Melissa DeRosa]

Well, no. Well, sure. I'll always promote my book, what's Left Unsaid. If you haven't read it yet, you should. I think you'll really enjoy it. There's a lot that's going on right now that's relevant to what happened then. But I want to go back to what Haley said because I think it's critically important. I think that right now Republicans are on track to lose the midterms, not just because people don't feel as good when they go to the grocery store or because right now the economy isn't. Even though the economic indicators are so strong, aren't translating to people's personal lived experience. People are so exhausted from Donald Trump every day they wake up and it's Iran, it's Greenland, it's Venezuela, it's tariffs, it's this, it's that. And we are in this place right now where I think people are yearning stability and I think that people are just incredibly exhausted from all of it. That said, the Democratic Party is not in a better position because I don't see our party, which right now has the biggest power vacuum since probably we lost the 2000 election, have any sort of vision or policy, platform or way forward that's any sort of alternative vision. And if we win just because they lose, we are not going to be any better off. But I think that it is a warning sign for Republicans not to the extent that they can control Trump because no one can and he doesn't have to get reelected again. So he's playing on a different playing field. But I think that what Haley articulated is how a lot of Americans feel. And I think it's why Republicans are on track to lose in November.

[Mark Levin]

Thank you for that and thank you for being here, Larry. Thank you for being here. Later today. Two way tonight, 6:00pm Eastern Time. We'll be back. We'll see you then. Moynihan REPORT at seven. Next up drops later today. And my guest is Doug Sosnik, one of the smartest Democrats judges around. We'll talk about what's going on now and for the midterms in 2028. And my reported monologue is to try to explain what Donald Trump is doing on Greenland. I think I figured it out. Join me.

[Larry O'Connor]

I'm looking forward to that.

[Mark Levin]

Join me and I'll share. Thanks, everybody. We'll see in 23 hours right here. And I'll see you at 6 tonight. And on next up. Have a great day.

[Melissa DeRosa]

Thank you.