Trump Administration Cracks Down on Minnesota Corruption as Protesters Hurl Insults at ICE Officers

Summary

The Morning Meeting (2WAY) – Episode Summary

Title: Trump Administration Cracks Down on Minnesota Corruption as Protesters Hurl Insults at ICE Officers
Host: Mark Halperin
Co-Hosts: Larry O’Connor, Jaime Moore
Date: January 13, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode of The Morning Meeting delivers a sweep of the U.S. political and news landscape as of January 13, 2026. Mark Halperin, with co-hosts Larry O'Connor and Jaime Moore, break down the day’s top stories: the Trump administration’s latest moves on corruption in Minnesota, mounting protest tensions with ICE, turbulence at the Federal Reserve involving Chair Powell, the administration's stance on Iran, affordability proposals, and a host of other developing topics. Throughout, the roundtable mixes analysis, quips, audience interaction, and live reactions to breaking headlines.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Daybook Rundown and Political Landscape (05:33–09:45)

• White House: President meets with the national security team over Iran, travels to Detroit to address the Economic Club.
• Congress: House and Senate in caucus; Supreme Court to rule on trans athletes in women’s sports, with expectations the state bans will stand (08:29).
• Inflation/Economy: Consumer Price Index at 2.7% annual, in line with expectations (08:39).
• Kamala Harris: Begins second phase of her book tour and inaugurated New Orleans’ new mayor.
• Cultural Notes: Banter about local venues and the panel’s personal experiences brings color and connection.

2. Federal Reserve Chair Powell Investigation Firestorm (10:25–17:41)

• Powell Under Investigation: The President and DOJ versus Powell, with cross-party pushback.
• Jeanine Pirro (DOJ): Public statement clarifies the office’s justification for pursuing Powell (11:44).
• Motivations & Fallout:
  • Jaime: Believes Powell tried to control the narrative using the word “indictment” to spark outcry and suggests the White House wants to quell the news cycle (12:07).
  • Larry: Sees political uproar winding down, expects the investigation continues, and argues claims that Trump is using DOJ to push Powell on interest rates came solely from Powell himself (13:22).
  • Mark: Questions the political strategy; why are GOP senators opposing Trump now? Is it principle, politics, or tactics?
  • Larry: Asserts it's tactical—public rebuke may make it harder to oust Powell (16:46).
  • Jaime: Suggests GOP leaders are “testing a message” separate from Trump as the midterms approach (15:03).

“If you think they're investigating him because he may have lied to Congress and broke the law with the cost overruns at the, the Fed building, he should be investigated.”
—Larry O’Connor (17:02)

Notable Quote:

“It’s rare to see such repudiation of the President... Why are these people standing up? Are they doing it out of principle or are they doing it out of politics?”
—Mark Halperin (14:40)

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3. Trump and Iran: Military Action on the Table (18:14–25:00)

• Pompeo’s Interview (18:23):
  Proposes informational and kinetic (military) options for Iran.
• Panel Speculation:
  • Mark & Larry: Predict a high likelihood of imminent U.S. military force against Iran due to increasing protester deaths and signals from the administration.
  • Jaime: Warns that Trump risks appearing distracted by foreign policy, while domestic crises like affordability and homelessness linger (21:12).
  • Larry: Argues MAGA is not as anti-interventionist as media claims; Trump’s previous foreign actions have high support among his base.
• Broader Context:
  The conversation ties Iran’s domestic unrest to U.S. electoral politics, echoing apprehension about military adventurism versus “America First” priorities.

Notable Quotes:

“You’re the president...they have called us the Great Satan since the Carter administration. They are the number one state sponsor of terrorists. You have an opportunity to maybe make the difference here.”
—Larry O’Connor (22:25)

“This is, this is probably one of the most important moments in international history right now... [it] is going to redefine the Middle East even more so.”
—Jaime Moore (54:00)

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4. Trump’s Populist Economic/Cost-of-Living Proposals (25:00–33:35)

• Credit Card Interest Caps: President Trump re-proposes a cap on interest rates; Elizabeth Warren praises the idea but notes Trump’s previous inaction (26:55).
• Panel Reaction:
  • Larry: Dismisses the proposal as performative—intended to look responsive, not likely to be enacted (29:09).
  • Jaime: Warns that government can’t simply will “affordability” into existence and that these policies may drift into ineffective populism (30:42).
  • Larry: Posits these left-leaning proposals allow Trump to deflect from negative headlines and blame Congress when they fail (29:48).

Memorable Moment:

“He claims that he wants to reduce housing costs, but what have we heard from him? Nothing on this. So anyway, I, I called the facts the way I see them...”
—Elizabeth Warren (26:55)

“This is one of those things where they throw everything against the wall to say, look, I’m doing something.”
—Larry O’Connor (28:58)

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5. Minnesota Corruption & Protests Against ICE (43:07–43:27)

• Trump’s Truth Social post warns of “day of reckoning and retribution” for Minnesota (17:41).
• A major development is a new lawsuit by Minnesota officials (twin cities) against ICE, alleging 10th Amendment violations (43:07).
• The panel provides little new analysis as the story remains in flux; the audience is invited to comment.

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6. Gavin Newsom and the Proposed California Billionaires' Tax (33:29–39:02)

• Newsom’s Pivot: The California governor opposes a proposed billionaire tax, trying to moderate his image for a national audience.
• Panel Split:
  • Jaime: Views this as savvy politics, allowing Newsom to appear in the national conversation while appealing to multiple strands of his constituency (34:48).
  • Larry: Considers the move a calculated “pivot” ahead of potential 2028 presidential ambitions, positioning Newsom as reasonable to centrist voters (36:51).
  • Mark: Stresses that Newsom genuinely opposes the policy on substance as well as politics (38:20).

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7. Labor Secretary Lori Chavez de Rimmer Scandal (40:49–42:49)

• Rising Scandal: Accused of personal misuse of taxpayer funds and staffer impropriety; aides placed on leave.
• Panel Consensus:
  • Both Jaime and Larry consider her a weak cabinet pick. If the scandal crosses from a planted New York Post story to New York Times coverage, she’s “done” (42:23).
  • No strong constituency to protect her.

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8. Protests in NYC, ICE, and the Democratic Messaging Machine (47:46–51:01)

• Question from Listener Luke: Observes a shift in Democratic leaders’ language on Israel/Hamas/ICE; why and how so unified?
• Jaime: DNC, DCCC, and DSCC are coordinating messaging more than ever; daily communications and polling are streamlined and feedback influences talking points (49:43).
• Larry: Finds the message discipline “creepy,” but credits Democrats for improved coordination.

Notable Exchange:

“I said this before a while back, that this is the first time I’ve seen the DNC... DCCC... DSCC... all on the same page right now.”
—Jaime Moore (49:43)

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9. Iran – Trump’s Messaging and Breaking News (51:30–53:40)

• Breaking: Trump posts on Truth Social calling for Iranian patriots to “take over your institutions” and vowing help is on the way.
• Mark is struck by lack of mainstream media coverage despite potential world-historic significance.
• Larry and Jaime stress the importance of the moment and query the administration’s next moves.

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10. Clintons Refuse Epstein Testimony (55:14–57:40)

• Breaking news: Bill and Hillary Clinton refuse to testify in Congress’s Epstein investigation, escalate standoff with James Comer.
• Both panelists see a mix of principle and political calculation; Larry speculates that the Clintons are seeking a “have you no decency” moment to push back against what they view as political lawfare.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “There are three major foreign policy moves that the President made this year that pissed off Tucker ... and 97% of MAGA voters were in favor.” (22:25 — Larry O’Connor)
• “We can get, we can, we can teeter into socialism if we keep talking about affordability in a way that the government can fix.” (31:04 — Jaime Moore)
• "It is a little creepy...the copy paste effort, though, was kind of creepy...we call that message discipline, Larry." (51:01–51:08)
• "The president of the United States should not be meeting with any country's leaders while they're killing protesters in the streets. That's just, it's just a bomb." (53:27 — Larry O’Connor)
• “Every person has to decide when they have seen or had enough and are ready to fight for this country, its principles and its people, no matter the consequences." (56:00 — Clinton Letter, read by Mark Halperin)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• Opening/Daybook: 02:00–09:45
• Powell Investigation/DOJ Fallout: 10:25–17:41
• Iran Policy & Military Tensions: 18:14–25:00
• Affordability Proposals/Economic Policy: 25:00–33:35
• Newsom & CA Billionaires Tax: 33:29–39:02
• Labor Secretary Scandal: 40:49–42:49
• Minnesota/ICE: 43:07–43:27
• Democratic Messaging Discipline: 47:46–51:01
• Trump’s Iran Messaging (Breaking): 51:30–53:40
• Clintons Refuse Testimony (Breaking): 55:14–57:40

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Tone and Language

The conversation is lively, incisive, and often irreverent, mixing rigorous political analysis with banter, good-natured jabs, and frequent asides. Mark Halperin’s moderating is sharp and sometimes arch, pressing his co-hosts with hypotheticals and devil’s advocate queries, while Larry and Jaime volley policy insight and the occasional inside joke. Listener questions inject an interactive, real-time pulse.

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Conclusion

This episode delivers a fast-paced overview of the day’s fast-evolving news cycle, with strong insider commentary on the Trump administration’s domestic and foreign policy maneuvers, the shifting political sands in Congress and among Democrats, and a measured skepticism about headline economic proposals. The tone is that of a high-level news meeting: forward-looking, opinionated, and designed to illuminate the depth beneath the day’s hot stories for network insiders and attentive political junkies alike.

Transcript

[Mark]

This is it. The world as you know it is over.

[Professor Kenny]

Completely done.

[Mark]

It's not about to be over. It's over. Some of the scientists who helped build AI are now sounding the alarm. I was selling AI as a great thing for decades and I was wrong.

[Larry]

I was wrong.

[Jaime]

There's a longer term existential threat that will arise when we create digital beings that that are more intelligent than ourselves. We have no idea whether we can stay in control.

[Mark]

While others say that AI will usher in unfathomable abundance, I've always believed that it's going to be the most important invention that humanity will ever make.

[Larry]

This really will be a world of abundance.

[Mark]

And among these fears and these fantasies, we seek the story of our future. Listen to the last invention on Apple, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[James Patterson]

I'm James Patterson. I write way too many books. Welcome to Hungry Dogs. The title comes from my maternal grandmother, Isabel Zelvis Morris. Nan used to always say, hungry dogs run faster, James. And I've been running fast ever since. Here's what will be coming your way soon and this is a really terrific list. I think you'll hear from some incredible people like Stacey Abrams. Yay. BJ Novak.

[Mark]

Yay.

[James Patterson]

Kathy Bates, Dolly Parton, Josh Gad. And Pope Leo. Okay, maybe not Pope Leo, but who knows, maybe he'll show up. Hungry dogs run faster. Thank you grandma for turning me into a hopeless obsessive compulsive. Listen to Hungry Dogs with James Patterson. That'd be me on Apple, Spotify, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

[Mark]

Morning meeting. Based on the network news division's morning meetings, our guest co host today, the great Larry o'. Connor. And let's be honest, the even greater Jaime Moore. Thank you both for being here. Larry and I'm a good morning. We will run through the daybook then we're going to talk about the news of the day. Always being forward looking, always trying to present different points of view. Don't know where that sound is coming from but somebody will mute it and then deep fakes regulator and then your opportunity to be involved in the conversation. If you're here in the two way platform want to be in.

[Larry]

You've been muted. He's been muted. Yeah, they muted Mark. I think they. I think they.

[Mark]

They were first for everything blamed me and any of.

[Larry]

Can I get that button? Yeah, can we all get that button?

[Mark]

Everybody should be me. I don't know what you missed me saying. In any event, if you're here on the platform. Raise your hand if you want to be in the conversation. If you're watching on x or on YouTube, please let's today, let's make today a smack free day. No smack in the chat today. Last night somebody sent me an email and saying, steve Elmendorf is so liberal, you should never have him on the show again. And I responded, no, you should be very happy to hear from Steve Elmendorf. He speaks for tens of millions. So once again, I say Larry and Jaime will educate you today. You'll be getting a PhD in everything and there's no charge. So congratulations on that, gentlemen. We're probably going to start with Pal, even though I'm here to not praise Pal, but to bury him or at least to bury the story. We'll start there in just a moment after a quick word from a sponsor. And then we'll start with the daybook and then. And then move on to pal. Cozy Earth 20% off everything on the site. Go to cozyearth.com use the promo code 2WMM for 20% off everything on the site. Start the new year off right. Give your home the luxury it deserves and make home the best part of life. And head to cozyearth.com use the promo code 2wmm 20% off. Tell them in the post purchase survey you heard about Cozy Earth right here. This 20% off, you think? Well, this probably doesn't include the Bubble Cuddle blanket. You'd be wrong if you thought that it includes the Bubble Cuddle blanket. It includes the towels, the sheets, the Baja bedding set. It's their first collection to have a complete matching set, which seems a little surprising to me, But I'm not here to quibble with the sponsor. Reversible Design Premium Fabric Thymus Colorways either. You guys know what a colorway is? Never heard of that. But here it is right in the promo.

[Larry]

That's out of my lane.

[Mark]

Yeah, Bubble Cuddle blanket. Someone on last night said what I always say, you got to buy two because your kids will steal one. Or your pet. And of course, buy the pants. Again, go to cozyearth.com promo code 2 WMM for 20% off.

[James Patterson]

I'm James Patterson. I write way too many books. Welcome to Hungry Dogs. The title comes from my maternal grandmother, Isabel Zelvis Morris. Nan used to always say, hungry dogs run faster, James. And I've been running fast ever since. Here's what will be coming your way soon. And this is a really terrific list. I think you'll hear from some incredible people like Stacey Abrams Yay, BJ Novak. Yay. Kathy Bates, Dolly Parton, Joss Gad, and Pope Leo. Okay, maybe not Pope Leo, but who knows? Maybe he'll show up. Hungry Dogs run faster. Thank you, Grandma, for turning me into a hopeless, obsessive compulsive. Listen to Hungry Dogs with James Patterson. That'd be me on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

[Mark]

Thank you for your attention to that matter. Assuming I'm not muted, I proceed with the Daybook today. Let's go to the White House pool. Real clear. Politics is the print pool, and the new media pool is the Gateway Pundit. Larry, what's the Gateway pundit?

[Larry]

Gateway Pundit is Jim Hoft. He's out of St. Louis, as one would expect with a name like Gateway Pundit, although I don't know if he lives there anymore. I would call him extremely maga.

[Mark]

Yes, and a pioneer. Gateway Pundit pioneer in some ways. And the secondary print pool is Axios Jaime. Who's Axios?

[Jaime]

Small little blog out of dc.

[Mark]

DC blog. Okay. They've done well for themselves. The President today, as of now, is supposed to meet privately with his national security team to talk about Iran options. We'll talk about that in just a minute. Then he heads to the Motor City. Detroit, Michigan. Motown, Michigan have any other name that Detroit have any other name? Wolverine State. I don't know.

[Larry]

The Wolverine State, The Great Lakes State.

[Mark]

Does Detroit have any nicknames besides the Motor City?

[Larry]

I have plenty. I was born in Detroit, so I have plenty of nicknames disparaging.

[Mark]

What would ChatGPT tell me? What other nicknames does it have besides Motown and Motor City?

[Larry]

North of Windsor.

[Mark]

North of Windsor. You guys know one of my favorite trivia questions we'll save the answer to later? How many states have some of their land north of the southernmost part of Canada? How many states have some of their land north, the southern part of Canada? Write your answer down. We'll get to it later. Anyway, the president goes there, 12:30, tours a Ford plant in Dearborn. And then with the travel pool, and then two o', clock, he speaks to the Detroit Economic Club. You got a New York Economic Club? You got a. You got a Chicago one. I don't know who else. Cleveland has one, I think, but the Detroit one is the granddaddy of them all. Somehow, somewhere along the way, the Detroit Economic Club became the place to go if you're a president running for President. And so we'll see what the President says.

[Jaime]

We'll talk about that.

[Mark]

In a moment. Congress lots going on House and Senate or House Republicans and Democrats separate caucus conference meetings right now after which the leadership of both parties will have press conferences. The speaker attend the Democratic leaders at 11. It's time 12:45 for the Senate separate lunches Republicans and Democrats after which they'll have press conferences. Appropriations bills being considered. The Progressive Caucus in the House 215 a press conference on the Department of Homeland Security funding and a lot of votes on a lot of stuff. Supreme Court at 10 and 11 hearing two separate cases on the trans athletes playing in women's sports and all eyes are most eyes at least on Mr. Gorsuch and Mr. Chief Justice Roberts to see if they how they might vote. But the widespread expectation we'll see how the arguments go is that the, the, the state laws that ban trans athletes from playing in women's sports will be upheld.

[Larry]

Consumer Price index Will Justice Brown Jackson recuse herself since she's already said under oath she can't define a woman?

[Mark]

No, she won't.

[Larry]

Okay.

[Mark]

She won't.

[Larry]

Just checking.

[Mark]

Yeah, thanks for asking. Anyway. Core inflation 2.7. Let's put that graphic up from CNBC came out a little over half an hour ago in line with expectations shows inflation is under control. I would say people pretty happy about this December consumer prices rose a 2.7 annual rate as expected per CNBC. And Kamala Harris kicks off her second stage of her book tour. Unorthodox second stage of a book tour. I wish I'd thought of that. In New Orleans tonight. Jaime, your friend, are your friends and family going to that thing?

[Jaime]

Yeah, I got it. I was, I was supposed to go down but I'm too busy at work this week. But she also inaugurated the new mayor of New Orleans yesterday. Helena Moreno. Yeah. Which was fantastic to watch.

[Mark]

Yeah. She's a, she's an up and comer that new mayor.

[Jaime]

She's up and comer and she, she, she, well, she's been around for quite some time. She's a TV lady by trace. You would like her.

[Mark]

But up and comer in, in terms of people have high expectations for the.

[Jaime]

City and like Larry's going to talk about those dim cities in a while, but she's tasked with bringing New Orleans back. As you know, it's dipped over the last few years so it's going to be a big task for her.

[Mark]

How big is the Sanger Theater? I'm not familiar with that venue.

[Jaime]

I think you can. I think it's about 25. Don't, do not quote me on this, I think it's about 2500 seats. It may be a little bit more than that, but I've been a bunch of times. But it's a great venue, Larry.

[Mark]

You played that venue.

[Larry]

I have not. But I suggest we take the morning meeting on the road, part of the New Orleans economic renewal, and we do a restaurant and Bourbon tour. Let's go.

[Mark]

Okay. If somebody can get me into Pesh, I'm all in. I've never.

[Jaime]

That's. That's easy. That's my favorite restaurant.

[Mark]

That's easy for you, dude. It's literally the only great New Orleans restaurant I've never been, because every time I go, they say they're full.

[Jaime]

Well, you must have pissed off J Mart, because, you know, J Mart's the. The. He's got his own table.

[Mark]

I know.

[Jaime]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Mark]

Got his own table. All right, let's begin again. If you want to be in on the conversation, please raise your hand. Let's begin with Chairman Powell. Sunday night, the President was dealing with the report that the Chairman was under investigation, or so it seemed. And then yesterday, all manner of Republicans and former Fed chairs and former treasury secretaries said, this is a bad idea. And Thom Tillis and a few others, Murkowski, Collins, predictably, said, no, we're not going to confirm anybody to be the Fed. The Treasury Secretary let it be known he didn't think this was a good idea, even though on the record, they denied that. And there were even some stories, like in Politico saying people at the White House think this is a disaster, Powell's going to dig in, blah, blah, blah. All looked like a big problem, except for the markets, which reacted poorly, but then rebounded until late last night. Ish. 103, please. The U.S. attorney for New York, who, for D.C. rather, who, strangely is the same name as a former Fox News host, Jeanine Pirro, tweeted this. The United States Attorney's office contacted the Federal Reserve on multiple occasions to discuss cost overruns and the Chairman's congressional testimony, but were ignored, necessitating the use of a legal process which is not a threat. The word, quote, indictment has come out of Mr. Powell's mouth. No one else's. None of this would have happened if they just responded to our outreach. This office makes decisions based on the merits, nothing more, nothing less. We agree with the Chairman of the Federal Reserve that no one is above the law.

[Larry]

And.

[Mark]

And that is why we expect his full cooperation. Jaime, does this mean that yesterday was like that season of Dallas where Bobby got out of the shower turned out to all be a dream. Or, or, or. And this is Piro's way of climbing down, or is the investigation actually going to go forward?

[Jaime]

Mark? I don't know what's going on, but it seems to be a lot. Look, I, I think a couple of things happened. I think the Fed chairman tried to get ahead of, of the news cycle and define a narrative for himself and use the word indictment to evoke some public outcry and concern which happened. And I think secondly, the White House, even if they were or were not involved, they realized that this is not a news cycle that they wanted to lose for multiple days. And so I think she was urged to go out there and correct the record and be very direct about what's going on. However, I think this investigation is still going to go. I'm not gonna, I said this, you know, I'm not here to, to protect the Fed chair, but I think it's a, it's a, it's an ugly precedent to, to do these political investigations because someone doesn't do something that you want them to do. However, if there was some sort of waste, fraud and abuse going on as they were renovating and expanding, then we ought to know that, regardless of who the person is. And so I'm of, you know, if the investigation's already gone on, let's get through it. Let's vindicate him. If he didn't do anything wrong, if there were instances of impropriety, let's bring him out.

[Mark]

Larry, is this dead or continuing?

[Larry]

Well, it depends on what the, the this is. I think there's still going to be an investigation. The political uproar over it, I think, is dead. Let's just be clear, though. The only person on record suggesting that Jerome Powell or other members of the Fed are being investigated because of their interest rate policy is Jerome Powell. The fact of the matter is President Trump has gotten the reduction of rates that he's been asking for for the last couple of cycles, and Powell's gone in May. So it doesn't make any political sense that he would have ordered some sort of criminal investigation.

[Mark]

Well, he's gone his share in May, but he's not gone from the Fed if he chooses to stay on. It's historically not common for Fed chairs to stay on, but the President wants that seat and he doesn't want Powell around wielding his influence as a former chair. Who knows what kind of influence he might have as a former former chair.

[Larry]

But you'd agree that he's pretty deft politically I think at this point we've learned. Does this seem like the no Trump? Does this seem like the kind of move that he would make to try to bully him out? It's, it's, it's clumsy.

[Mark]

I don't, it does. Now, we're still waiting for, we're still waiting for the. Sorry, let me just say a couple things. We're still waiting for the Cook decision to see whether the president can remove Fed governors for quote, unquote. Cause here's my question, and maybe this is so obvious it's a stupid question, or maybe it's the most brilliant thing I've thought of. We'll see.

[Larry]

It's a fine line.

[Mark]

It's rare to see such repudiation of the President from Dave McCormick, Thune, Semi repudiation, Murkowski, Collins, Tillis, whatever. Why are these people standing up? Are they doing it out of principle or are they doing it out of politics? Or Jaime, why are we seeing these people stand up to the president on this point?

[Jaime]

Look, I think, and look, you know, Larry's the one who knows more about this than I do, but I'm just going to give my opinion on it. I think they're, I think they're all testing the message of what it looks like to not be partnered with Trump on every single issue.

[Mark]

I got to stop you there, though. They have, they've had in the last nearly a year now, they've had plenty of options to choose issues.

[Jaime]

Well, we won a campaign. We weren't in a campaign year last year, and we were in a year of settling. And I think the president had a lot of chips that he wanted to, to deploy. I mean, he had that tax bill. He had a lot of things that he wanted to do in Congress. And so I think he was handling that a little bit differently. And so as we get into this hypothetical, you know, all my friends who are Democrats right now, in the last five days, all they talked about is those four to five Senate seats that are potential, those, those House seats that are starting to close in. And so I think as those conversations are happening, particularly in the Senate, someone like Leader Thune is going to have to start testing a message outside of Donald Trump to make sure he can protect his majority or at least limit the amount of seats Democrats are going to be able to.

[Mark]

Here's why, here's why. I respectfully disagree with you. And then Larry will come in. This is not the sword, this is not the Hill to die on. The public doesn't care about the Fed or the sanctity of the chair.

[Jaime]

And, but it's cumulative, Mark. I think this is sort of, they're testing out to see how it went this week. I think it went fairly well for them. And it's cumulative. You're not going to have John Thrun go out and just say, oh, hey, let's get rid of the president. I'm going to run a completely different campaign than he ran last year in previous years for this midterm. But you will see these types of issues that he can give his caucus, his people a little bit space to run on.

[Mark]

Okay, Larry, Why, why, why are they standing up to him on this?

[Larry]

Yeah, two, two answers to you. Because it's not just politics or principle or the two options. The other, the third one is tactics. I think that they truly believe that if the, if the goal here, rid of Chairman Powell, tactically, this is just a bad move. If anything, it, it entrenches him and makes it harder to get rid of him. So I think tactically, now, normally that would be a phone call, not a public statement. I think if you believe that the Trump administration and by extension the Justice Department was investigating Chairman Powell to force him to reduce interest rates, that's stupid, that's bad, and it should be condemned. If you think they're investigating him because he may have lied to Congress and broke the law with the cost overruns at the, the Fed building, he should be investigated. And I, so I think that the narrative yesterday was he was being pressured to move rates and they were using the Justice Department to do it. And I think everybody can condemn that, at least in this administration.

[Mark]

Very thoughtful answers from both of you. And I think the whole thing will turn on whether the elevators are indeed too old. That's really the issue. The president just posted something on Truth Social about Minnesota, which we'll get to in a minute. It's a little complicated, but I just have to reach you. The last line. Fear not. Great people of Minnesota, the day of reckoning and retribution is coming. Exclamation point. We'll get back to Minnesota in a minute. Let's move on, though, to Iran. Here is former Trump Secretary of State Mike Pompeo on cnbc.

[Jaime]

Right.

[Mark]

No Fox and Friends, talking about the options he sees for the President. 118, please.

[Mike Pompeo]

Got a wide range of options. Some of them are already underway. Some of them are informational. Right. Providing support, telling the Iranian people that we are with you, that we will support you. I am confident that has already made a difference on the ground and put the regime at more risk along the spectrum, there would certainly be cyber efforts, that is efforts to go after the ability of the regime to communicate and to try and help the Iranian people communicate amongst themselves. So two alternatives. You know, I've heard talk about Starlink, but making sure that the protesters all across this large nation, 80 million people, can communicate and continue to rally against this regime that has destroyed their just common way of life. It expands to kinetic things. The president has talked about that, saying if they kill people in numbers, that he's going to go do something that is more serious, much like Operation Midnight Hammer. There's no doubt that there are now hundreds of Iranians that have been killed. So I think they've probably crossed the line. President Trump set out. Ballistic missile program would be a good target. The irgc, which is like.

[Mark]

So, guys, I said this last night, but I wanted on two way tonight. But I wanted to ask you, the Wall Street Journal and the New York Times both have a little reporting on what's going on. And they say the President's considering or inclined towards kinetic action, but military strike, but hasn't decided that. The vice president's urging diplomacy. There is a diplomatic track through Wyckoff. But three things that to me occur when the President is about to use military force. One is they put out an advisory saying, if you're an American in Iran, get out, get out. Two, they put out that he's, he's, he's leaning towards using force. Almost every time that happens, he does use force. And then finally it's just the body language of everybody, of the president, what he's saying, what he's not saying, Caroline Levitt, etc. So, Larry, it seems to me within 72 hours he's going to use force. Am I, am I misreading Pasta's prologue here?

[Larry]

I don't know if it's a done deal, but I think that they're prepared to if necessary. And I think, listen, he brags about, and rightly so, by the way. I don't mean to use brag as a pejorative. The mission to take out Iran's nuclear sites, that was a stunning military success. He is proud of that. And this is a moment in history. If he can in some way help those people who are struggling on the streets, who are actually pro American, it appears, I think that he's poised to do it. But I think that that threat and the posture is just as powerful as the actual execution. Potentially.

[Mark]

Yeah. There seem to be two downsides of using military force. One is some of MAGA doesn't like the thought of it. So it's, it's. Tucker would be pissed. And the other is obviously if, if it, there's assuming no loss of life, obviously, you know, the Iranian government could, could say, well, this is now the US operation. But doesn't it seem more likely than not that this is given the Trump worldview, that he's going to do something in the next few days?

[Jaime]

Yeah, I think so. I mean, look, every day we're kind of talking about Donald Trump doing some sort of foreign intervention at this point. And so I think, you know, if he has a long Runway still and if he, if Americans believe that he's doing this and remaking the global economy of the global politics to make things, make America stronger, make our country have a better standing in the world, I think people will support him. However, the slippery slope that he's on right now is there's still so many people hurting financially and so much chaos happening in America that at some point he's going to start losing points with his base for just spending so much time abroad and spending so much time on foreign issues. I mean, he hasn't put together a plan to tackle homelessness yet. And that's been something he talked about for most of his campaign in all these big cities. He hasn't, we'll see what happens in Detroit today. But he hasn't really put together a good economic agenda. And so it's hard for us to go out there and start nation building and sort of helping all these other countries take their country back. But we have some really strong, big, deep issues here that we haven't begun to tackle yet.

[Larry]

Yeah, I mean, since I sort of the MAGA whisperer here amongst the three.

[Jaime]

You said it, not me.

[Larry]

I keep hearing that this is so unpopular with MAGA because it's gonna piss off Tucker. You know, there are three major foreign policy moves that the President made this year that pissed off Tucker. Working on pressure against the Gazans to get the peace deal in Israel, the bombing run on the nuclear sites and the Venezuelan military site. And yeah, it pissed off Tucker and 97% of people voters were in favor of it. MAGA voters, that is so. I mean, I don't really think that's an issue. And this whole canard that, you know, we're getting frustrated cuz he's focusing so much on foreign affairs. I don't see it on the ground. I don't hear it from my listeners on my radio show. And come on, this is a. What are you supposed to do. You're the president. United States, they have called us the Great Satan since the Carter administration. They are the number one state sponsor of terrorists. You have an opportunity to maybe make the difference here. You're going to say, yeah, but, you know, people are concerned about affordability, so I'm just going to take a pass on this.

[Mark]

I think you can agree with you 100%. Go ahead.

[Jaime]

Yeah, I think you can walk in and chew gum at the same time. I'm not saying that he shouldn't be. I think America should be a strong company. That, that, that shows its power as much as we can, particularly when we can help people. But we can't just say that, that things are all fine and dandy in this country when we elected this president to put America free first and to lower our costs, to get the border under control, to get these cities in a place of prosperity and to try to grow the middle class, to take people out of poverty and even if you have money, give you a little bit more of that. And so look, and here's, here's the thing.

[Larry]

And I think ending the, ending the terror regime in Tehran is America first.

[Jaime]

Okay, that's fine. But I think you can walk a chew gum at the same time. But I think regardless of what we say about Donald Trump, we're entering very quickly a lame duck, Donald Trump, and so his popularity at some point won't matter. And we got to start talking about Marco and JD and all those other people in this administration. Are they going to be able to sell this to the American people when they run for president? Donald Trump's going to be gone. And so at some point, this conversation gets a lot more broad than how MAGA feels about Donald Trump. And it goes back to the court issue. And I have a lot. I'm from Louisiana. You guys know that. So I know a lot of MAGA people. I know a lot of people voted for Donald Trump. And so I'm not just in this liberal echo chamber where I'm just listening to my friends who are, who are anti war. I'm going down in Louisiana. People are hurting. And so they're giving Donald Trump a chance to remake the global economy, but they're still watching and seeing what he's doing on the ground, and they're going to have an ear to the speech in Detroit today.

[Mark]

All right, two things. Then we're going to move on to affordability. One is, I think we need a better metaphor for when people say walk and chew gum. That's not very complicated. I Mean something like juggling flaming bowling pins and doing a cartwheel. That's a, that's a better metaphor. Number two, you know, I don't read the chat, but I glance at it. I just saw somebody put in the chat, you are full of shit. Is there any context that wouldn't be smack? I just feel like no matter what the context, that must have been smack. Please, no smack in the chat. All right. Affordability. The President's proposed all these things. Limit on credit card interest rates. Stupidest idea I've ever heard of. Would kill the consumers, the credit card industry. 10% is, is, is, is much lower than money should be lent at. It's just nuts. Same with some of the housing things he's proposed. It's all these proposals that the President has put forth. The Wall Street Journal rounds them up today. You can put that headline up. And, and of course, there's three bites at this apple for the President to talk about this. Here's the headline from the Journal. In Pivot on Affordability, Trump unveils barrage of proposals to address costs. President pitches ideas to lower costs and boost spending power that could bring big changes to housing markets, the oil industry and finance. The story is extremely kind to the President's wacky, doomed proposals. They're not only bad ideas, none of them are going to happen. So I don't know why they're trotting out all these things that are never going to happen, because it's going to just leave voters disappointed. He's given a speech today. He's got State of the Union between then he's going to Davos, where they keep saying he's going to unveil his populist economic proposals. I don't know if he's going to Sister soldier Davos. I don't know what that's about. In any event, where are the President's policies on the economy popular? Well, we found one member of Congress, an apparent ally of the president, who is very enthusiastic about the President's wacky idea on credit cards. Let's listen to Trump ally Elizabeth Warren. 106, please.

[Elizabeth Warren]

So I did this speech this morning.

[Mark]

This is long. We're watching the whole thing because it's incredible.

[Elizabeth Warren]

And in the back and forth in the Q and A, I got asked about Trump's credit card proposal, putting a cap on interest rates on credit cards. And I said, look, I've been arguing for that for years. And when Donald Trump ran for president, he said that was one of the things he wanted to do. And I said, great. Let's do it. And what has he done since then? Not lifted a single finger. Right. And I just went on and added, he claims that he wants to reduce housing costs, but what have we heard from him? Nothing on this. So anyway, I, I called the facts the way I see them while I was giving this speech. And then when it was over and I'm in the car driving back over here, I get a call from Don Crump. So I know it's not funny, but it's. I just need to laugh right now. Okay, okay, but here's the thing, and I really do mean this. I'll work with anybody. And boy, this proves it. I will work with anyone to bring down costs for working families.

[Mark]

I'm stopping a capt. A tweet that's right on point. Timothy Sandifer, vice president of the Goldwater Institute. Here's his post on Twitter. He's quoting something from National Review. People say this administration is anti trans, but the president himself is rapidly transitioning into a woman, namely Elizabeth Warren. That's funny. I hope that's not offensive to anyone. Just seems funny to me. So, Larry, I'll start with you. Why I know I'm not Michael Deaver or Nita Dunn, but why is the President proposing all of these left wing doomed ideas? He can't do them by executive order. They're bad ideas. Congress won't pass them. Why is he promising all this stuff that will be great on a bumper sticker, but it's not gonna happen?

[Larry]

So a couple things. First of all, do we think he called her Pocahontas when he called her.

[Mark]

Maybe Poky, you know.

[Larry]

Oh, is that the little love language?

[Mark]

The little love language. Pokey.

[Jaime]

I don't know. Good question.

[Larry]

The fact that he's not gonna be able to get it done is part of the reason why he's throwing it out there. This is one of those things where they throw everything against the wall to say, look, I'm doing something. When in reality, by the way, he is doing on gas prices now, 43 states have below $3 a gallon gas. 30 states have below 275 a gallon. That has a ripple effect on the cost of almost everything.

[Mark]

Larry, Larry, Larry, I've got to stop you. I agree. Lower energy prices, good. But why are they. Why he's now proposed on two things on credit cards, three things on housing, two things on, on, on. On taking over corporations. Why is he proposing all these left things that aren't going to help consumers?

[Larry]

Because it actually, first of all makes it look like he's doing something and he's open to anything. Because you're right, he doesn't say, I feel your pain. But instead he says, well, how about this? And how about that and how about that? And at the very least, the White House can say, we proposed this, we wanted to do it, but it didn't happen, number one. But number two, think about what we just saw from Elizabeth Warren on that podcast. It's such a hateful podcast. It's, it's just like unwatchable. It is, but, but they're laughing at the fact that Trump called Elizabeth Warren, Elizabeth Warren said, yeah, I'll work with him during a weekly news cycle where there are mobs in the streets calling him a fascist and his storm troops are murdering innocent Americans. So Elizabeth Warren is gonna work with Hitler on this issue. That helps the President change the topic this week.

[Mark]

Agree with that. Jaime, does this make sense to you, all these, all these doomed, stupid proposals?

[Jaime]

Well, I mean, they do, and I think Larry laid it out nicely. But I will disagree with Larry vehemently. I absolutely love Jennifer Welch and I know that she's gotten some hot water recently. She's, she's going to be a very important voice for liberals. I'm not saying I agree with what she said, but she's going to be a very important.

[Mark]

Can you get her to come on two way?

[Jaime]

Well, maybe so I've been trying to get on her show, so we'll see.

[Mark]

All right. Like, it's like a three way trade. Like you get you, she puts you on her show. She comes on my show.

[Jaime]

She, but she's a, she's a brilliant, she's very liberal. She's brilliant. And, and then to, back to Elizabeth Warren. I really, I really like Elizabeth Warren a lot. And if I had the chance to vote for her in the primary in 2019, I would have, but we didn't. So she, she, I think generally speaking, I don't always agree with the nuances of her, of her proposals when it comes to populist economics. But generally speaking, she understands what we're trying to accomplish. Lower health care costs, lower housing, give people a chance, get a leg up and to move forward and move into a better stage in life. And so I think Donald Trump has that same idea. He would like to do that. But here's the issue, and I've been saying this for quite, for a year now. Donald Trump has been bringing all of these CEOs and presidents of these corporations to the White House and trying to convince them to give him things. But what he should have been trying to convince them to do is lower their costs. And, you know, at the end of the day, you know, we can get, we can, we can teeter into socialism if we keep talking about affordability in a way that the government can fix. I mean, the government can't fully fix affordability. This has to start with cost. And to Larry's point, gas is down, energy is down. That is going to help. But just general essentials to live life are still too expensive. And the president can't do much to change that unless he convinced, you know, these corporations to lower their cost, wholesale costs, unless it makes the supply chain a little bit easier to deal with. And so the conversation about affordability is going to be fraught for a long time because at some point over the next year or two, it's going to get into a place of how can the government save people, save the country, give people money? And that's probably not the best place to be.

[Larry]

One other thing, Mark, in terms of the President's inner circle and who he listens to. Steve Moore, a valued voice in President Trump's economic policies. He immediately jumped on this credit card thing yesterday. Went on Stuart Varney, Fox Business also very influential venue and absolutely destroyed and said it was the stupidest thing he's ever heard. It's so stupid, you know, and will hurt. And people have to understand it will hurt people. It will keep people from getting credit.

[Mark]

Cards correct and they'll cancel all the loyalty programs for the credit cards. And it's not. But the president says this needs to be done in a. Like I think he said needs to be done in a week. It's not going to be. It's not going to be done. I don't get it. Here's a tweet.

[Larry]

It has a lot of Bannon written that this is a ban.

[Mark]

Oh, sure.

[Larry]

Which makes me very, very nervous because I thought that his voice is not.

[Mark]

It is economically literate. It's economically literate. Here's a truth social post of the president. He's apparently been. Somebody left him alone with the phone just out Colon. Great low inflation numbers for the usa. That means that Jerome Too late pal. Should cut interest rates meaningfully. If he doesn't, he will just continue to be too late. Also out. Great growth numbers. Thank you, Mr. Tariff. President DJT Mr. Tariff. Like Mr. Peanut. Mr. Tariff. All right, let's talk about a few more topics. Then to your questions, please raise your hand. Gavin Newsom continues to try to kill this ballot measure which hasn't qualified for the fall ballot yet. That would levy a massive tax on billionaires who live in California. It's already caused some billionaires to leave. I don't know if this is Newsom trying to do a sister soldier or what, but he's been very outspoken against liberals and unions. Did two interviews yesterday, one with the New York Times. Here's the headline, Newsom vows to stop proposed Billionaire tax in California. And then another interview with the Politico in which he says, Gavin Newsom moves to neutralize tax on billionaires. Jaime, is this purely good politics for Gavin Newsom or is he being a little too Lucy Goosey with the liberal base and the unions if he wants.

[Jaime]

To be the nominee? I'm not, I'm not, I'm not sure yet. I mean, I will say this. I spent, I was at dinner last night with some people. We spent 75% of the dinner talking about Gavin Newsom. So that's a good thing for him. So I think at the very least, one of his wins from this is he's going to be in the conversation piece both on all spectrums of this argument right now. They're all, everyone's going to be talking about him taking a position on him. One, secondly, what he's trying to remind people, when someone reminded me of this last night, California is the same state that Kevin McCarthy came from, the same state that Devin Nunes came from. And so, you know, while he represents a really large swath of the liberal base in America, he also represents a really sizable agricultural community, a sizable conservative community. And so I think he's trying to show that he has some diversity in his politics, you know, secondly. And then thirdly, look, we are, we are far enough away from the, the 2027 primaries and then the general election 2028, where he can start making, he can make these bold political declarations and then spend all this year camp raising money for candidates, campaigning for candidates going out there. He's going to be, he is going to be the hottest ticket for all battleground state Democratic parties and their blue dinners, you know, they don't call them Jefferson Jackson anymore. Everybody has a new name for it now.

[Mark]

Yeah.

[Jaime]

So all those blue dinners he's going to go to, all those battleground candidates he's going to go to. And so I think, I think it's smart politics right now, but it may not end up, it may not matter, particularly if the unions are not overly upset and overly burdensome on, on their operations. It may just be fine. And he may Just have another. You know, I mean, he's a political athlete. This is like the six. This would be like the sixth assignment He's. He's been able to compete. I mean, complete. So I don't know. I think, I think, I think it's okay right now.

[Mark]

Okay. I will, I will just say, Larry, before you jump in. I'll just say that. Well, Larry, you go ahead.

[Larry]

Well, I don't know. It's just odd to hear something like this is being described as bold to come against something.

[Mark]

It's a Democrat who wants to potentially work for the president against unions.

[Larry]

So. So, yeah, but I don't think this has anything to do with Kevin McCarthy's district and the. The red parts of California. He's had seven and a half years to do things that would accommodate them, and he's refused to do.

[Mark]

So.

[Larry]

This is about. We knew that Gavin Newsom would make that pivot where he tries to ingratiate himself to the rest of the country because the rest of the country ain't California. What's shocking to me is that the thing that he decided to pivot on and try to say, look, I'm not crazy, I'm reasonable, is. Is taxing billionaires, which, which is, I'm sorry, not a great stump speech. Bullet point for Iowa, New Hampshire, wherever he's going to be trying to win the Democrat primary. But this is the beginning of the pivot where Gavin Newsom will pretend to be reasonable and moderate.

[Jaime]

Okay, first, I don't think. I wasn't saying that he was trying to appease Kevin McCarthy's district. I don't think he cares about that. I think what he's trying to do is he's showing that he's the governor for all of California and he understands these issues, you know, on a spectrum. And look, at the end of the day, you can say what you want to say. I don't think 100 million millionaire or 100, you know, thousand millionaires are going to leave California unmasked. He still has an overwhelmingly the biggest amount of millionaires, billionaires in this country, more than Florida or New York. And so he understands this type of. Regardless of what he says and what he said over the last four years, he understands this better than most governors, if not all, you know, any governor.

[Mark]

Well, a lot of them are going to leave. I think he has more Republicans and maybe more MAGA people as constituents than any other governor in America, just based on the sheer size of California. And lastly, I will tell you, obviously, there's politics here. And I keep telling people this and I'm ready for stuff to drop on my head. Believe me, I'm aware. He is more conservative on economics than you folks think. He is a small business person. He understands economics and he opposes stuff, not always, but often as much as anybody is a politician when he thinks it's a bad idea and he thinks this is a bad idea, not just politically bad for him to be the governor who has to deal with this. He just thinks it's bad policy. So factor that in good.

[Jaime]

And Marcus father in law is probably in this ear all the time too. So that's exactly.

[Mark]

Exactly. Okay, again, raise your hand if you've never raised your hand on the program, today would be a good day to do it. I failed to show something before on the economy when we were talking about it that I want to show just because I think it's interesting. This is the Wall Street Journal's Greg ip, who is a very respected economic analyst. I think he's like their chief economic correspondent or something. Here's what he said in lieu of the latest numbers. Apropos of what the president posted on Truth Social, this is Greg Yip on CNBC120, please, because I'm very optimistic. More new highs. You know, good GDP closed southern border.

[Jaime]

Just Joe, I'm with you on all those positives. I'm not disputing any of those. And the inflation number is one more reason to be optimistic. I think 2026 is going to be a very good year for the economy and the markets.

[Mark]

All right, so just to show you that the president's not the only one who's bullish on today's numbers. All right, two more quick topics. The labor secretary, Lori Chavez de Rimmer, former House member. I think she served one term in the House. Little bit of a surprise when she was made labor secretary. The New York Post wrote a story two days ago accusing her of all sorts of impropriety, having, using taxpayer money to travel on personal business, of having an inappropriate relationship with a member of her staff. And I was wondering how much pickup that would get because I didn't see it anywhere else after the story in the New York Post. And of course, why is the New York Post breaking a story? Investigative Journal Almost never happens. Turtle on a fence post. Someone gave the New York Post that story and said there was an IG investigation. Today, another news organization picked up the story. The New York Times. Here's the headline. Labor Secretaries Aides Placed on Leave and Misconduct Investigation. The Labor Department is investigating a complaint alleging misconduct by Secretary Lori Chavez.

[Jaime]

Dreamer.

[Mark]

The two aides put on leave are her two top aides, not the employee she's alleged to have had an improper relationship with. Oddly, in the New York Post story, her husband was quoted denying this story. She was not quoted. And the New York Times gives ample credit to the New York Post for breaking the story. So, Jaime, are we inexorably leaning towards the resignation of this official or. Not necessarily.

[Jaime]

Well, everybody, everybody, all the, all my liberal friends are waiting for the moment that at least one of these cabinet members are expelled. So, no, I don't know. I've never been impressed with this pick, to be quite frank. And I've spent a little bit of time with her on, on some issues around tariffs and other things in the past. And I always thought that this is probably one of the weaker picks for President Trump. And so I think if anyone has to go this year, it should be her and it ought to be her. And I think he's. I don't think he's going to lose much politically from letting her go, and I think he'll quickly, you know, get somebody in their interim to keep the ball moving. I know. I don't think she's even, you know, really been impressive in the, in the Cabinet Room. And she hasn't done much to gratiate herself with the president. She hasn't done much to really give, you know, give proof that she can, you know, be beneficial to his economic agenda or his, you know, political agenda. So I think she's probably out.

[Mark]

Larry, do you know Halperin's 14th rule of Washington?

[Larry]

Never let a Cabinet secretary be seen in a string bikini?

[Mark]

No. Although that happened. No, it's. If an investigative story that's been planted goes from the New York Post to the New York Times, the subject of that story is doomed.

[Larry]

Ah, interesting. Yeah, I think you're right. And something that Jaime and I can agree on. I've never been thrilled. Most of the, the conservative world was not thrilled with this choice. I think it may have been Sean o', Brien, Teamsters President, sort of a bit of a payoff. The conservatives don't like her. Of all the Cabinet secretaries. And that's saying something, considering Bobby Kennedy is pro abortion.

[Mark]

Yeah.

[Larry]

So she, I think she's done. So she has no constituency, really, to protect her.

[Mark]

Yep, absolutely. All right. Lastly, either of you want to say anything about Minnesota? The only development since yesterday, not the only development, but the major one was the lawsuit brought by Minnesota and the twin cities against ICE to say they violated the 10th Amendment. Either of you have anything you want to say today about Minnesota, about where you think this story's headed?

[Jaime]

I don't have much.

[Larry]

Mark Collagen said.

[Jaime]

Yeah, exactly.

[Mark]

Okay. All right, then. Quick word from another sponsor and then to your questions again. If you've never raised your hand, today would be a good day to do it. And we'll go to you in just a moment. Is the head of the White House. Borders are currently live on Fox. Tom Holmans live Said live.

[Larry]

Is he wearing a string bikini?

[Mark]

He's not.

[Jaime]

I hope so.

[Mark]

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[Jaime]

National security threats and public safety threats.

[Mark]

In New York City. It would help them, too. Absolutely. It'll make New York City safer. Absolutely.

[Jaime]

Great to see you. You're one of the busiest guys in the country. We appreciate you stopping.

[Larry]

All right.

[Mark]

Missed it. We'll see if you made any news. All right, let's start again as we unmute you, you'll tell us who you are, where you are and what's on your mind for Larry and for Jaime. And we'll start with Professor Kenny. Professor Kenny. Tell folks about the after show, how people can participate in the community if they want to keep the conversation going. And then whatever else is on your mind.

[Professor Kenny]

Oh, thank you, Mark, for that. Yeah. So, folks, I put the link in the chat all the time and you guys can always privately message me. We do an after show at 10am right after this morning meeting and we keep the discussion going. All hands that are raised get called on and you're able to address whatever the issues of the day are. So thank you for that, Mark.

[Mark]

I like lower smack than exists on this program for reasons I never have understood.

[Professor Kenny]

Yeah, lower smack because I'll kill you.

[Mark]

Okay. I'm less threatening than you are.

[Professor Kenny]

No, seriously. And we've had Larry on. Mark's been on. Hi, Mom. I'm going to invite you down the road. I'd like you to come on. But you know, we've had good people on, so. By the way, I love this panel. Jaime and Jaime, you're speaking a lot more in the last couple weeks. Awesome, dude. Awesome. So, anyway, having said that, I wanted to talk about. I want to change the topic a little bit. Talk about the Panama Canal. The Panama Supreme Court is going to make a ruling on whether CK Hutchinson, which is China running the ports in. In on the canal. And I wanted to know if they rule against them and take them out of the equation, is Trump ready to jump right in there?

[Mark]

Either any of you have no doubt.

[Larry]

I mean, I'm unfamiliar with the case that the Supreme Court seeing, but he's made suggestions to that effect. To be clear, there's two canals there now. The second one, the newer one that actually handles the larger cargo ships are the ones that the Chinese.

[Professor Kenny]

Yeah, it reports.

[Larry]

Yeah, yeah. But. Yeah, no, Trump has made signals to that effect, certainly, and that would be a great opportunity.

[Mark]

I'm. I'm a. Thoughts?

[Jaime]

Yeah, I agree. I mean, he's been. Look, one thing I learned over the last 10 years is if Donald Trump mentioned something, he's going to circle back on it. And there's something that he's been talking about for a little bit of time now. So I think he. I think he'll jump on it if this comes to fruition pretty quickly.

[Mark]

All right, professor, thank you. Grateful to you. I misspoke. Before it happens, this is a live program. I said 25% off every gallon of gas. It's 25 cents. 25 cents off every gallon of gas. Still real money, particularly if you got a big car. But it's 25 cents, not 25.

[Larry]

That might be 25% the way gas prices are going.

[Mark]

Exactly.

[Jaime]

There you go.

[Mark]

All right. Luke, you are my son. Welcome. Thank you for being here. On mute. Tell Everybody you are. And what's on your mind For Hyman, for Larry.

[Luke]

It's nice to talk to Larry and Jaime. I'm in China, Just been here for a while. I did have a question. There was something very interesting this weekend that I didn't quite get a lot of news from, but it was very. Talked about a lot on X. And it was about the protests in New York City where they were talking about Hamas. And for some weird reason, Bernie Sanders. We had aoc. We had kind of. A lot of. The Democratic Party was just kind of condemning.

[Mark]

Yeah. Using hauntingly similar language. Yes. It was just.

[Larry]

Almost like the same as. Put it out there. Yeah.

[Luke]

They've been so pro Hamas for a while.

[Mark]

Yeah.

[Luke]

And I was trying to figure out, okay, there's a change. Where's the change and why the change.

[Mark]

Yeah. So, Jaime, this in your wheelhouse here. So there's, there's that, and then there's also the efforts to not have people say, abolish ICE as opposed to a reform ice. So is this coming from the dnc? Is it coming from osmosis? How is it that the Democrats seem to be, as we head into an election year this year, how is it the Democrats seem to be on message on these two issues?

[Jaime]

Well, I think they're finally sort of listening to me a little bit because I've been saying these things for quite some time. But look, I mean, I think we, you know, what we've realized. I think a lot of Democrats have realized, particularly when you look at what's happened with the issue around defunding the police and some of those things that have backfired. Not only bad politics, they're just not good policy.

[Mark]

But I'm a. Just stop. Totally granted that it seems the politically smart thing to do, but I think what Luke is asking, and I'd love for you to address this, how does it happen? Is it everybody just sort of figures it out themselves or is there talking points that are distributed. Yeah. I mean.

[Jaime]

Yeah.

[Mark]

By whom? Who's. Who's, who's. Who's distributing such a thing?

[Jaime]

Well, so, I mean, there are three entities that are working together to get on the same page. And I think this is. I said this before a while back, that this is the first time I've seen the dnc, which is the umbrella for the national party, the dccc, which is the congressional arm, and the dscc, which is the senatorial arm. They're all. So they're all on the same page right now, and they are using most of the Polling is coming from the dccc, the congressional side, because they're out there in the field and they're bringing the polling back to the three entities and then they're coming up with talking points and determining, you know, what's making the most sense and then to, to, to reiterate that their daily communications meetings and, and calls and, and things like that, to check in on what's working, what's resonating, what's not resonating, who's saying what on tv. You know, they try to tell me what to say on a podcast, but I don't listen to them. I just say what I want to say. And so, so they've gotten really good until, you know, Larry knows this. The Republicans have for a very long time. The Democrats are just starting to try to figure it out and it seems to be working right now. But there is a. It is there to. Luke, to your point, there has been an effort to make those two issues in particular more palatable for most Americans to communicate with and to make it a little bit more plain and trying not to antagonize. So to answer your question, yes, there's been an effort.

[Larry]

It is a little creepy to see that. The copy paste effort, though, was kind of creepy, you know, when everyone.

[Mark]

Sorry. We call that message discipline, Larry.

[Larry]

Yeah, I guess.

[Mark]

Yeah.

[Luke]

But the other part, the other question is with Iran going on, I thought maybe there's something to do with Iran, with the Iran issue.

[Jaime]

Well.

[Larry]

It is funny how, you know, all of the people who have been concerned about the downtrodden in the Middle east don't seem to have a voice for the downtrodden Persians in the Middle East.

[Mark]

Well, they do. Well, they do.

[Larry]

Well, I. Not nearly to the level.

[Mark]

Not nearly to the level.

[Larry]

Gaza.

[Mark]

Yeah, Luke, but thank you. I just got to interrupt because the president is still. No one's taking his phone away. He's on Truth Social again with another post, and this is a potentially historic one, sort of. You'll see why I say that. Here it is. Iranian patriots, keep protesting. Take over your institutions. Save the names of the killers and abusers. They will pay a big price. I've canceled all meetings with Iranian officials until the census killing of protesters stops. Help is on its way. Mega make Iran great again. President Donald J. Trump. Now, of course, Sunday night, the president said there was a call from the Iranians. They want to talk. It's been reported that Mr. Witkoff is back interlocutor ing with the Iranians. The president seems to be saying no more conversations until you stop killing people. That's a, that's a pretty significant change as we look through to see if the President's going to try to use every resource he has, rhetorical, kinetic, et cetera, to bend history here and try to smooth the transition. I have to tell you there, there are people in my life very knowledgeable about Iran who are very bearish on this and say the Iranians will survive this and they'll all fade away, that international attention will go. And there are people who are very bullish who say this is it, this is happening. And the US Intelligence community believes that the Israelis believe it and the President wants to be on the right side of history here and that he's going to do what he can do. I don't know what the right answer is, but it definitely bears watching. And I will say one more thing. I watched cable news this morning at 6am I watched five different channels all at once. No one was covering this story. They were covering other stuff. I'm just amazed. The biggest story in the world right now, it's bigger than China. It's bigger than, than, than Ukraine. Larry, Then, Jaime, I, I've done at.

[Larry]

Least half an hour every day for the last five days on my radio show in the morning in D.C. it is huge. And by the way, setting aside the politics, the president of the United States should not be meeting with any country's leaders while they're killing protesters in the streets. That's just, it's just a bomb.

[Mark]

I thought it was nuts. I thought it was nuts when he said it.

[Larry]

Yeah, I was surprised that there was, but he also said in the same breath that they might have to do something before the meeting takes place. But that is a big deal.

[Jaime]

That is.

[Mark]

Hi, Mom.

[Jaime]

Yeah, I mean, I agree. I mean, it's a huge deal. I don't, I don't think and think, thankfully, Mark, you're, you're talking about, and you've been talking about it all week, but I don't think people know how to frame it yet. They don't know really what to say. They don't know what side to be on. But one of the things I do, just so you guys know, I caught Larry on local TV last week. Larry. So you. I'm in a D.C. residence. So.

[Mark]

You were great.

[Larry]

My Fox 5.

[Jaime]

Yeah, it was great. It was awesome. But, well, one of the things that I am, I'm still concerned about when you, when you talk about all of these issues is, you know, just how much, how far the president will go and how much Congress will let him do without having an opinion or intervening. And so it's. This is, this is probably one of the most important moments in international history right now. We've seen a lot in the last five months, but this one in particular is going to redefine the Middle east even more so than what's going on with Israel and Palestine and Hamas. And just for the record, Larry, I don't know a lot of Democrats, particularly in my family, who are pro Hamas. I know some who have been very pro Palestinian, but I don't know any pro Hamas. I don't know any pro terrorist Democrats.

[Larry]

Well, and it's funny because I didn't get a chance to jump in on Luke, but I think that is the distinction. If you noticed these protesters that got that response, they were literally chanting, we support Hamas. Yeah, up until now the pro Palestinian protests had, have used Hamas slogans like from the river to the sea and all that stuff. But they haven't blatantly said, yeah, we're on Hamas's side. I think that was the difference maker.

[Mark]

It's a loony thing. I need to read you two paragraphs. Just breaking news from the New York Times. This is a story that was percolating out, but it's come to a head this morning and I'm quoting now from the great Annie Carney of the New York Times. Bill and Hillary Clinton refused on Tuesday to testify in the House's Jeffrey Epstein investigation, escalating a months long battle with Representative James R. Comer, Republican of Kentucky, and effectively daring him to follow through on his threats to hold them in contempt of Congress. Fascinating quote from a lengthy letter that Clinton sent to the committee, quote, every person has to decide when they have seen or had enough and are ready to fight for this country, its principles and its people, no matter the consequences. The Clintons wrote in a lengthy letter to Mr. Comer which was first obtained by the New York Times, quote, for us, now is that time. Jaime, are the Clintons standing on principle? Are they trying to avoid answering questions about their relationship with Jeffrey Epstein?

[Jaime]

All the above, yeah.

[Mark]

Okay. What's the principle?

[Jaime]

I, I'm not, I've had a hard time with this one, to be quite frank. And I, and I, you know, I think they are.

[Mark]

Eight pages. Sorry to interrupt. Eight page letter they wrote. Good.

[Jaime]

Yeah. Well, on one hand they're just trying to neutralize this and try to give, you know, push Donald Trump over the edge. Another way is they're just trying to neutralize it for themselves. But you know, I Don't know. I don't, I don't have much of an opinion on this because I don't have it fully formulated yet. I just don't know. I really don't know how to take this yet. I really don't.

[Mark]

I mean, obviously the Clintons aren't opposed to congressional oversight, so is, is the answer. Larry, I'll ask you to speak on behalf of the Clintons like you're, like you're Jake Seaworthy for a moment. Finally, is it, is it, is it because they think that as a former president and first lady, they should get special treatment?

[Larry]

No, I think they're, they're trying to have a, at long last. Have you no decency, sir? Moment with this?

[Mark]

But if you were, but if you're sympathetic to the Clintons, what's the principle they're defending? Again, maybe it's in this eight page letter.

[Larry]

If you're sympathetic to the, if you're sympathetic to the Clintons, the principle you're defending is Trump is an authority authoritarian bully who's trying to use lawfare to go after his political.

[Mark]

But Trump isn't even. Trump doesn't even support the Comey investigation.

[Larry]

Oh, no. Trump controls everything. The Epstein investigation. Listen, and Bill Clinton would have a lot more credibility on this protestation if there weren't so many pictures of him getting massages and shoulder rubs from some of the young ladies associated with Mr. Epstein.

[Mark]

Yeah. Again, it's an eight page letter. It's just been posted, so I don't have the time to read it, but I'm curious to see, see what principles they're standing on. And obviously we'll see where this goes. All right, quick word for one more sponsor and then we'll finish up. Ethos. You get a free quote on ethos.com, for life insurance. Ethos online platform that makes getting life insurance fast and easy. Protect your family's future in minutes and not in months. If you got a breadwinner, and just imagine the breadwinner stops winning the bread. What your family would do for tuition, for rent, for every major expense your family has. Protect your family with life insurance from Ethos. Right now. Make sure you can pay your mortgage, your tuition, other bills, peace of mind to take just a few moments to go on Ethos. Not a complicated process. 100% online. No medical exam is required. Just a few online health questions. You get your quote in as little as 10 minutes. You can get up to $3 million in coverage on Ethos application. Times may vary, rates may vary, but right now, if you want to make sure your family is protected, go to ethos.com/, get a free quote on life insurance. Thank you for your attention to that matter. Brennan, welcome in. Tell folks who don't know where you are what's on your mind. For Jaime and for Larry.

[Brennan]

Thank you for calling on me. I'd compliment you, Mark, on your podcast appearance with Michael Malice on the you're welcome podcast.

[Mark]

Thank you. That guy's a genius.

[Brennan]

Yeah, it was like watching two very prominent political voices in my head knock heads.

[Mark]

Do you know this guy? You may not know him. You do know.

[Jaime]

Not personally, but I know. Yeah.

[Mark]

Yeah, he's a genius. I love being on. I was honored to be invited and thank you for.

[Larry]

He's a legend.

[Mark]

He's a legend. He is a legend. All right. Thank you for that. Go ahead.

[Brennan]

Specifically, he brought me to Emma Goldman's work as a prominent anarchist. And I didn't know that your extended family, Mark, was massive in getting her story more well known. So I want to extend my thank you for that as well.

[Mark]

All right. I recommend the book written by my. My late father in law and my wife about Emma Goldman and Alexander Berkman. Best reviewed. Best reviewed book by. By the New York Times of anyone I've ever known.

[Larry]

One of my favorite supporting characters in Ragtime the musical and Assassins the Musical. The Sondheim musical.

[Mark]

That's right.

[Larry]

Two musicals.

[Mark]

Yes, sir. About assassination. Brennan, real quick, because we're up against the clock. Anything else on your mind or is that it?

[Brennan]

Yes, it has to do with Emma Gold. And mostly she was advocating for violent revolution and using violence as a means to enact communism.

[Mark]

Yep.

[Brennan]

So whenever I hear the stats of like 34 of people are left wing people support violence. After the Charlie Kirk situation and this increasing violence of anti ice. I just wonder if her story was more well known, if that number would change or how you think those relate to each other. This modern setting.

[Mark]

It's a great question, gentlemen. You got thoughts on that? If we knew more about the history of these things, would it make a difference?

[Larry]

I mean, only that Maureen Stapleton did a great job in the Maureen Beatty movie. That's. That's my last. I'm sorry, you. I defer to you on image.

[Mark]

Yeah.

[Jaime]

Like I've been in the school of Martin Luther King my whole life. Even went to the same college he did. So, you know, I try. I try to lead with peace and nonviolence as much as possible, but we can't deny.

[Brennan]

One second. Guys, sit down.

[Jaime]

Things are multitasker I love it. Vernon. And he's in command, too. That's the kind of attitude we need. And you know, come on, where are you in the country?

[Brennan]

I am in Rhode Island. I'm at work right now, so.

[Jaime]

Oh, Rhode Island, Nice. That's a great. So, yeah. But things are getting more fraught around the world and I think this, this question is going to start coming up more and more. How do we push and use violence to, you know, get what we want? Or do we try to figure out ways to come together and figure out solutions that are going to be beneficial for as many people as possible?

[Larry]

Setting aside my glib setting aside my glib response, I think with the Incredible we're celebrating 250 years here of this country. We're stable. We're a constitutional republic. We have plenty of representation, plenty of outlets. There's no, never, ever in any way, whether it's January 6th or, or, or BLM and George Floyd, there's never a reason for violence ever in this country.

[Mark]

Amen. Brandon, thank you.

[Larry]

Stop.

[Mark]

Thank you. I saw somebody ask in the chat the name of the gentleman, Michael Malice. If you're not familiar with this podcast, this incredible show, he's all the episodes are great. I won't speak to mine, but anyway, I recommend that to you. Later today on Next up, my guests Karen Skelton and Patty Solis Doel and I will discuss my new rankings of the most likely eight Democratic presidential candidate nominees in 2028. Eight for 28. Lots of people shifting around on the list from last month. You can listen to that. Then we'll break it down. And then Mike Rogers, who's running for the Senate in Michigan, will join me tonight on two Way tonight. Also have two great guests, Melissa derosa and Mark Bednar will be here. We'll talk about all the news today, including the president's economic speech in Michigan. And then the Moynihan Report, seven o'.

[Jaime]

Clock.

[Mark]

Don't miss that. And then this program will be back on in 23 hours. Very grateful. Larry and Jaime, thank you guys for coming on again. Love having you here. Thanks for everybody who raised their hand and participated. I will see you on NextUp later today on YouTube and podcast and then six o' clock Eastern right here. Thank you, everybody. Have a great day.

[Jaime]

Good to see you. Good to see you, Larry.

[Larry]

Thank.

[Mark]

You.