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The Morning Meeting
Trump Heads to Pennsylvania on Campaign Swing; Hegseth Still Enjoys Strong Trump Support Over Boats
01:04:15
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- [00:01]
Kristen
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- [00:31]
James Patterson
I'm James Patterson. I write way too many books. Welcome to Hungry Dogs. The title comes from my maternal grandmother, Isabel Zelvis Morris. Nan used to always say, hungry dogs run faster, James, and I've been running fast ever since. Here's what will be coming your way soon. And this is a really terrific list. I think you'll hear from some incredible people like Stacy Abrams.
- [00:55]
Mark
Yay.
- [00:56]
James Patterson
BJ Novak.
- [00:57]
Mark
Yay.
- [00:58]
James Patterson
Kathy Bates, Dolly Parton, Josh Gad. And Pope Leo. Okay, maybe not Pope Leo, but who knows, Maybe he'll show up. Hungry dogs run faster. Thank you, grandma, for turning me into a hopeless, obsessive compulsive. Listen to Hungry Dogs with James Patterson. That'd be me on Apple, Spotify, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
- [01:34]
Mark
Welcome everybody to this is the morning meeting. Thank you for joining. Based on Network News Division's morning meetings, you're here on the two way platform with an opportunity to ask questions. If you're watching on X or YouTube, don't put smack in the chat. Peace, love and understanding. Always possible extension of the presumption of grace to all. Always possible. But sometimes it's a challenge to do the program. 9am is usually a pretty good sweet spot because a lot of stuff's occurred already in the morning on morning TV and in what we used to call newspapers today. Lots is going on, both planned and unplanned here as we come on the air. So joining us today, very grateful to them for giving us their expertise and time. Democrat Jaime Moore, Republican Christian Davison. Welcome to you both. Thank you for being here. Jaime's in San Francisco. Jaime was there. Syringes, dog poop, Anything on outside the hotel there this morning when you went for your jog?
- [02:22]
Jaime Moore
Well, Gavin Newsom knew that we were talking about him today, so he flew me out to San Francisco so I can have nice things to say.
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Mark
Yeah, but I mean, is it. Does the city seem like a. Like a hellscape or like one of the crown jewels of the American tourism industry?
- [02:35]
Jaime Moore
I. Look, I think the new mayor, Daniel Lowery, has a lot of work to do. The City does look cleaner than I was here a year ago. But there's still a lot, a lot to do, to be quite frank.
- [02:46]
Mark
All right, so I'm guessing there was dog poop covered syringes outside the hotel. That's just my interpretation.
- [02:51]
Jaime Moore
It's early and I'm being nice. Mark. Yeah.
- [02:52]
Mark
Okay. Good man. Thank you again both for being here.
- [02:57]
The big breaking news as we come on the air is the FBI has made an arrest in the D.C. pipe bomb case. You'll recall that one of the mysteries of January 6th was there were pipe bombs left outside the DNC and the RNC. Probably most of you have seen that video of a hoodied clad person walking past the places where these pipe bombs were dropped. Vice President Harris was in the area. Here's the headline from. I don't know where that's from, But CBS News FBI arrest suspect in 2021 D.C. pipe bomb case. It's one of these cases that kind of a surprise nobody ever solved or hadn't been solved for so long. This is four years now because they had all this surveillance footage and you know, and evidence from the bombs, etc. So when we get more, maybe we'll cut to cable news if somebody's saying more than just that there's a suspect arrested, but we'll cover that. We're also going to talk about all the things going on with Secretary Hagsett. Also, Speaker Johnson is dealing with the New York Times story that says a lot of the ladies of the conference are not big fans. Kind of an incredible story. We'll talk about Republicans in the midterms. Karl Rove and the president's pollster are both offering up advice. Russia, Ukraine, the president, Somalia and Gavin Newsom. Lots going on with Gavin Newsom including, including being criticized on lots of different fronts. So we'll get to all that. And again, as always, if you're here on the platform, we're going to want your questions. So please raise your hand if you'd like to be part of the conversation. Let me run through the daybook and then, and then a quick word from our sponsor and then we'll get right to it. The president today has a, has a pretty full day.
- [04:37]
But as of now, nothing's open except a signing ceremony at 12:10. And then of course, the Christmas tree, the national Christmas tree lighting at 6. But before then, 11 o' clock greets the President of the Republic of Rwanda. 11:10, the President of the Congo. 11:20 is, and this is closed press trilateral greeting with the, with the two of them and then a signing ceremony. This is one of the at noon 12:10. This is one of the presidents, of course, double digits, approaching double digits, where he says he's made peace. But presumably there'll be some conversation then. Don't know what the vice president's doing today. Secretary Kennedy is meeting with his vaccine panel. A lot of controversy around that at this hour. Mike Johnson is supposedly swearing in the new congressperson elect Van Epps from Tennessee. Amazing. Many have pointed out how quickly people can be sworn in after they're elected compared to a recent example where a Democratic elect member was left waiting for a long time. Hakeem Jeffries at this hour is holding a hearing with his colleagues on affordability and the president's economic policies. Lots going on on the Hill trying to strike a bipartisan, bicameral unicorn deal on health care. A lot of very smart members like serious substantive people trying to figure out can they pass something on health care this month even as the talks have intensified. And today we have a bunch of announcements, a lot of pessimism that anything can get done. Josh gottheimer Democrat Republican Jen Kiggins are having a health care unveiling at 9:30. This is to attempt to try to extend the Obamacare subsidies with some other stuff to draw Republican votes. Hakeem Jeffries press conference at 1:15. Vladimir Putin is in India today for the 23rd India Russia Summit. I still haven't gone to one. Still like to get to one of those, but still haven't been. But he's there and he did a big interview with the Indian journalist in advance of the meeting that's making some news. Federal prosecutors expected to re indict Letitia James in Norfolk today after the earlier charges were thrown out because of the challenged the prosecutor's legitimacy. Gavin Newsom in Washington trying to get federal funds for Wildfire after being in New York at the New York Times Dealbook Summit yesterday. All right, quick word from a sponsor and then we'll get right to our great co hosts and more.
- [07:00]
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- [07:53]
James Patterson
I'm James Patterson. I write way too many books. Welcome to Hungry Dogs. The title comes from my maternal grandmother, Isabel Zelvis Morris. Nan used to always say, hungry dog run faster, James. And I've been running fast ever since. Here's what will be coming your way soon. And this is a really terrific list. I think you'll hear from some incredible people like Stacey Abrams.
- [08:17]
Mark
Yay.
- [08:18]
James Patterson
BJ Novak.
- [08:19]
Mark
Yay.
- [08:20]
James Patterson
Kathy Bates. Dolly Parton, Jos? Gad. And Pope Leo. Okay, maybe not Pope Leo, but who knows? Maybe he'll show up. Hungry dogs run faster. Thank you, Grandma, for turning me into a hopeless, obsessive compulsive. Listen to Hungry Dogs with James Patterson. That'd be me on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
- [08:50]
Mark
All right, Pete. Hegseth declared victory when the report was leaked out about the signal gate matter. The full report, or at least a redacted version, is expected to come out today. Here's the Triumphant Hegseth tweet.
- [09:08]
15, please. And his spokesman said the same thing. And there's no indication I have that the White House is the least bit interested in making any changes at the Pentagon. Here's the Hegseth tweet. No classified information. Total exoneration. Case closed. Hootie's bombed into submission. Thank you for your attention to this IG report I give him credit for. That's pretty funny. So on the Hill today is.
- [09:30]
The head of the Joint Chiefs and the admiral, who, based on the current chronology, I think they. They made 17 different stories, but the current chronology. A lot of people would say, this is fine. Not everybody, but a lot of people would say, what happened was they said, we got to kill everybody on the boat. We got to destroy the boat. They tried to kill everybody on the boat and destroy the boat. And then they didn't. And then the admiral leading the mission said, well, all right, let's destroy the boat. And then they killed the two people. So they weren't trying to kill the two people. Two people. They were trying to destroy the boat. And according to the Wall Street Journal and the New York Times and others, the Two people were seen trying to not, they weren't, they weren't helpless. They were trying to radio colleagues and trying to, trying to salvage the cargo. Lastly, Wall Street Journal story. This is an important story. Well, two things, important stories, I should say 13.
- [10:21]
Not the admiral who's on the Hill today, but Admiral Halsey, not the one from the Paul McCartney song, different guy was fired, forced to resign by Hegseth after months of discord. And if you read the Journal story, and you should, both this admiral and his lawyer, the official lawyer, did not like the way Hegseth was ordering them to do the operation in the Caribbean. Caribbean. So Halsey is, according to the Journal, he didn't speak to them, but somebody spoke to them, whether it was him or somebody else making it clear that they don't necessarily see eye to eye with the legality of this mission overall, not necessarily just this one double tap thing. And then the Washington Post has a story with a provocative headline not totally borne out by the story. Number 14, Republicans begin to tighten screws and hexess. Pentagon GOP frustration with Trump's defense secretary has intensified with some lawmakers questioning their confidence in him as key committees pursue an aggressive oversight campaign. So we don't know what's going to happen after the folks speak today. Interesting in that story, something I did not know, but buried down in that story is John Thune twice has been asked, do you support Secretary Hegseth? And according to the Washington Post, he said, I'm going to let other people decide on that. That seems unsupportive compared to what it might be. So, Kristen, where are we with the whole narrative of both congressional oversight of this mission and Hegseth signal gate, etc in the wake of the last 24 hours? Where are we going now with this?
- [11:53]
Kristen
I think we'll get to the weekend and it'll be gone. To be honest, I think that all the news that has come out settles it to some degree. Look, when, you know, people in D.C. get together, especially now it's Christmas party season, so you have, you know, everyone from all different agencies kind of get together. One of the main, you know, topics for conversation is which cabinet secretary will be the first to swap out. And Pete Hegseth's name is never mentioned. Like I've never heard him mentioned as, as one of the people that, you know is at the top of the list to go. There are many other people, many other secretaries. I think that people speculate. So I think he survived in advance this whole situation. I think, you know, senators like Thune and others, I don't know if they were huge fans of Hexa to begin with. So they don't feel the need to, you know, go on camera and defend him. I think that that's a fine answer. I mean, just as Peg said, survived in advance the issue, I think th survives and advances the question just like many of the others. But I think it's gonna be fine. And I think that, I don't know necessarily if there will be more to come out of it. I think they pretty much laid out what they believe happened and I don't, I mean, Democrats could probably push on it, but I don't see it as being building issue that will go for longer than a few days.
- [13:08]
Mark
I'm a dead by the weekend or sustaining, I think.
- [13:11]
Kristen
Oh, I'm sorry.
- [13:12]
Mark
Sorry, go ahead.
- [13:13]
Jaime Moore
Oh, no, look, I agree with you, Kristen. I think, I think it's dead by the weekend. I think what we've seen over the last year is Pete Hessack has been able to evade these tough moments and emerge in some ways even stronger than before. And it seems like to Chris's point, he still has the president's confidence. But Democrats have been, look, Christian knows this. Democrats are going to start using these wedge issues to draw some sort of spotlight on members of the president's cabinet that they think are they want to push the media. Talk about getting pushed out. One of the big conversations in Trump won was how much change he had in that White House and he has not done that this year. And then so I think Democrats would like to see that happen to start some shuffling and they like to have that conversation piece. But it seems like Pete Heszek is going to survive this again.
- [14:04]
Mark
Yeah. And one way he may survive it. This seems to be helping him and certainly helps him in the White House, I think is they've replaced the whole press corps. They kicked out the traditional news organizations. Here's the New York times this morning, 16. I don't know why they announced it so early, but this morning at dawn they announced that they were suing the Pentagon and saying number 16, please, that you know, that it's a violation of the newspapers First Amendment rights that they're kicked out of the Pentagon for coverage. At the time they were simply because of how they were covering the Pentagon. Basic principle of America. And here's something that's getting a lot of attention in the media. Number 17.
- [14:45]
John Conrad, one of the reporters I say that in air quotes allowed to cover the Pentagon now tweeted this. Hegseth answered My questions, it's off the record, so no details, but I'm very pleased with his leadership. Michael, who does John Conrad work for? I meant to look it up, but he's, I know he's one of the.
- [15:04]
Jaime Moore
Sort of the new, I think he's an independent.
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Mark
Independent. All right, all right. But just, just to button up this Hegseth thing.
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Are you both confident that there's no thread still to be pulled on the second tap, or do you think there might be and that it could cause more problems?
- [15:23]
Jaime Moore
Look, I'm not, I'm not fully confident in it. I think one of the things that I've been very disappointed regardless politics in just the lack of, of, of professionalism with the secretary and the Pentagon. But you know, this is a slippery slope. We talked about this a lot, Mark, you know, with you over the last couple of months, couple weeks. But you know, when the press corps is still very important to American, American culture, very important to getting information out. And I think when you start walling them out like the Pentagon, like Secretary Hesak has done, then it's a slippery, and we get into, you know, some anti Americanism that we got it. We got to talk about.
- [16:06]
Mark
Kristen, I know you said you don't hear Hexa's name, but, but I've been surprised. I've heard from veterans and Trump supporters and in many cases both who have, who've said to me privately, the stuff with the press being kicked out, the stuff with the double tap, the stuff with the changing positions and reflected in pretty, pretty lukewarm support on the Hill, that they actually disagree with your premise and they think that, that his support may be, may be soft and that he may go. So this press stuff, does this play well for him with the White House?
- [16:38]
Kristen
You know, from the beginning, he was always kind of the one pick that never really had a lot of people celebrating. So I think like, even when during the confirmation process you heard his name mentioned, like, oh, there's no way he's going to get confirmed and, and he did and he keeps surviving. I think that when you look at all the different secretaries and all the different agencies to look at it, at it by issue, I think the ones that are in danger are the ones that are tied to a policy that makes the president look bad. And right now, if he can survive this.
- [17:07]
Episode, it doesn't make the president look bad. And at the end of the day, this Department of War makes the president look strong. And so I think that the guy in charge of the department that makes the President Strong is gonna be the first one to go. Someone that's tied to the economy or immigrant, you know, something that is directly impacting the policy will be first on the chopping block versus someone who so totally agree.
- [17:28]
Mark
And again, you can't overstate the level of confidence the White House expresses. If our opponents want to be on the side of not killing drug dealers, let them do it. And that's maybe a sad commentary on some things, but it's the reality. All right, New York Times, just a brutal story about the Speaker. Number eight, please. And this is not anonymous quotes and is not Democrats. This is Republican members of the House just savaging the Speaker. And a lot of them who are focused on in the article are women. Here's the headline. Republican Anger Erupts at Johnson as party Frets about future. A small group of GOP women have been among the most vocal in raising what their colleagues say is a broader frustration with the Speaker. Now, some of this is, if you read the article, some of it's based on slights or failure to consult or, you know, they don't like the way they're being treated. But how much of this is just they're worried about losing the majority. And that's what happens when people are panicked about something like that.
- [18:26]
Jaime Moore
Yeah, I think, look, I, as a Democrat who's worked to elect Democrats for the last 15 years, I love when the House House Republicans are fighting a little bit. But look, look, I'm in California right now, but as you guys know, I'm from Louisiana. And so I've been able to see the speaker very up close, even when he was a state legislator in Louisiana. And quite frank, I've been quite impressed with how well he's kept his caucus together over the last year. And I think I've been very impressed with his, his, his, his leadership of the caucus. But the reality is the, there are a lot of frontline patriot Republicans who are nervous about being reelected and they're nervous about how much the speaker has kowtowed to the President. And some of them who are even the ones who are, who are good governance Republicans, they're nervous about the fact that the President is taking, has taken congressional power away from them. And so when they go back to their homes and try to get reelected next year, you know, they want to go on the record saying that they have opposed, you know, the speaker and they've opposed some of the things that are coming from the White House just to be on the record. I don't know if this is going to be real or if it's going to hurt the leadership of the speaker, some of it is really just politics. You know, if I were a front line, even if I was frontline, we had, you know, this happened when, when Speaker Pelosi was the speaker and there were a couple Democratic members who started to, you know, telegraph that they were not always happy with her leadership. So this is going to happen. I think Speaker Johnson is far more astute than we've given him credit for. And so I think he's going to be able to weather this. I think he'll. He'll whip the caucus. Steve Scalise, another Louisiana man, he's so good. They're very good at this. And so I don't think they're going to go down like Kevin McCarthy.
- [20:13]
Mark
Kristen, Elise Stefanik has two motives beyond the actual disputes to be upset. One is she thinks the speaker screwed her when she wanted to be UN Secretary Ambassador. But the other, she's trying to become governor of New York. And I think creating distance between her and D.C. republicans is probably a good thing. But I'm still struck, you know, people in Republican Party and critics of the media like me will say, well, if this happened on the Democratic side, can you imagine how much coverage it would be getting?
- [20:43]
But in this case, she called the Speaker a liar, and it's not getting that much coverage. And it's kind of an extraordinary thing, whatever the extenuating circumstances. So how deep is this problem? Or is it just a surface thing? But just speak specifically, like if you work for the speaker and one of the members of the prominent member of the conference leadership called him a liar on the record, wouldn't that be a cause for, like, concern?
- [21:08]
Kristen
Yeah. You know, from what I've heard, I think a lot of members are more upset with Congresswoman Stefanik than they are with the speaker just for making this an issue right now. That's the general theory. There are a number. And look, I think that there are two. Two things can be true at the same time. You could have Elise working for either her gubernatorial campaign or as some have talked, maybe she's setting herself up to. It's gonna be a tough year. New York's a blue state. Maybe she runs for speaker, keeps her seat. I mean, there's a whole lot of other things that you can see down the line that she's setting up for, but it's very her driven. Right. But at the same time, there are members who could be frustrated. They can't be frustrated with the President. They can't be frustrated with the environment. And so the speaker is the first in line. I don't think it's at the level of the frustration that you saw with the base, with, with Kevin McCarthy. I do think that, you know, a number of things. Some of the, you know, main frustrations you hear where people, you know, some of the members were upset they weren't called back during the shutdown. Some of the members were frustrated that their hands were tied during that. And I think right now what we'll see is where the speaker goes in terms of health care. So for example, like Congresswoman Kiggins to lead the effort on the subsidies is, is such a leadership role for her. She's a rock star, Congressman. If you don't know her, look her up. She's great. From, from Virginia's second district. And you know, where will the speaker fall on that? Because right now I think there is some nervousness as to where the leadership is going to go and I don't know if there's a lot of guidance there. So both things could be true. This could be a self serving thing. But also the frustration is there. I don't think at the end of the day, Johnson's in trouble right now. Mostly, as we've been saying before, is because he still has the President on his side. The minute that that changes, I think he's gone. But right now, and the point you.
- [22:54]
Mark
Made about the grassroots is so key because if you read all the grievances, there's nothing there MAGA would care about. It's all process and consultation and procedure. And as you said, like most things, the Republican Party, if the President's for it, he'll probably keep it. And he's also benefiting from what Chuck Schumer benefits from, which is you can't beat something with nothing. There's no one who could get the votes to be speakers. There's just literally nobody who could get 218 votes. So, so, so he's safe. But there is a lot of unhappiness about the midterms. And despite the efforts to spin the Tennessee result, there's deep concern and economics is a big part of it. Affordability. Axio is reporting this morning that the President's about to do what a lot of Republicans have told me and others. They like to see him do domestic travel, not overseas, not trying to bring peace and prosperity elsewhere, but bring it here. Pennsylvania, first place is going. There you go. Yeah. So he's going to Pennsylvania. According to Access on Tuesday. It's part of a Sustained drumbeat of travel up to and around the State of the Union address. We've talked about it here before. And then you've got two of the smartest Republican strategists giving advice to the party about what to do. One, Kristen, you know this guy, Carl Christian Rove? You know him?
- [24:06]
Kristen
No, I know him very well.
- [24:08]
Mark
His birthday's coming up in 20, 21 days. He's Christmas, Christmas Day. Boy, Karl Rove used this Wall Street Journal column today to tell Republicans pretty much what Carl always tells Republicans. And I don't mean that in a disparaging way. Number six, which is policy is good. Policy is good politics. And Carl, you know, doesn't sugarcoat the Tennessee implications and says, you guys got to get out there and talk about things with authenticity to make the real lives of real people better. Carl's given the same advice for 50 years and he's done pretty well with it. The other is Tony Fabrizio, one of the president's pollsters, who famously was said to have told Republicans a few months ago, you got to be for extending the Obamacare subsidies. That's what the polls show. Now he's saying something different, according to Politico. Number seven, please. In a briefing with House Republicans, Tony Fabrizio gave different advice, which is don't talk about the Obamacare subsidies. Talk about drug prices and lowering of drug prices, something the White House is very interested in. He also said on housing, B for mortgage. What's that word? We can take it with you. Transportability. What's it called?
- [25:12]
Kristen
I thought it was. Yeah, transportability.
- [25:14]
Mark
Yeah, I think it's a different word. Anyway, you get the point. So he's saying housing and health care are two of the policy areas that Republicans need to talk about. And then, of course, there's more polling data out today every day. We could spend five minutes on the latest polling showing voters care a lot about these issues and they're not confident that things are getting better. And that's almost certainly going to hurt the incumbent party. So, Kristen, you take all this in the blender, the president's trip and these two advices from Carl and from Tony Fabrizio and the results on a Tuesday. What can Republicans separate from the president accomplish on these things between now and the State of the Union? In other words, are they just sitting around waiting for the White House or House and Senate Republicans going to have to cook something else up on their own?
- [26:00]
Kristen
Yeah, they can't wait. And I mean, I've been saying, been saying this kind of all year, like you need to focus on these issues, on housing, on health care, particularly this year, not next year. And ultimately, I mean, this really shows what Carl's article and you know, Fabrizio's poll and the Politico polling, what it shows is there's really two different philosophies on how these campaigns are run. And so Tennessee was, was kind of proof of concept. You have a lot of people that say, just turn out the base. If we just turn out the base, it's going to be fine. If we just stick to our base issues, we're going to be fine. If we just find these like, you know, Trump voters in the corner that never vote, we're going to be fine. Well, on Tuesday, we basically had midterm level turnout. It wasn't low, it wasn't a low turnout event. I mean, it matched the turnout from 2022. And so we did Republicans, we did get mid propensity voters to turn out, but it wasn't this grand, you know, swell of, of base turnout that, that we're trying to do. So the other philosophy is you have to persuade. And so I think all this information shows us and the results on Tuesday, the results of Virginia, the results in New Jersey show us that, that we have to walk and chew gum at the same time in this election. We being Republicans, we have to be able to, yes, go turn out our base, find our Trump voters that don't show up. But we have to do some persuading. I mean, that Politico, I think it was in Carl's article actually that showed that independents, I mean, how the President's approval has just collapsed with them, it's.
- [27:20]
Mark
Like, it's like down to like 20.
- [27:22]
Kristen
I mean, just total utter collapse. And I mean, they are the bound, they bounce around and they're going to show up. They're, they're more, they more tune in. They're highly educated, they're in these swing districts. So if we don't put an effort to persuade them that what we're doing is the only way to get us out of this economic slump that, you know, we're slowly still trying to get out of, then the base turnout is not going to be enough. And so, and a lot of, you know, my colleagues in this business are probably would hear that and say, you're crazy, this is all base turnout. Like, we got to stop persuading. There's no such thing as push persuadable elections anymore. But I think all, you know, the information we're reading, and I'm sure Carl Here, he probably said the same thing is, you know, you have to put in the work and do both. You have to run dual tracks, turn the base out and start persuading these independents that, look, it's not just, you know, Trump's trying, here's what we're doing, here's what Republicans are doing, and offer them policy that way.
- [28:10]
Mark
Right, Jaime, while you work on your lights. All good.
- [28:14]
Jaime Moore
You look fine.
- [28:14]
Mark
Let me just say a couple things. First of all, Fox is reporting that the suspect arrested in The Pipe Bomb DNCRNC 2021 Pipe Bomb Incident is a male living in Virginia who was arrested this morning in Virginia. So, Kristen, it might well be your neighbor.
- [28:29]
Kristen
We'll see.
- [28:32]
Mark
The other thing is, Kristen, you raised one of the things that makes me the craziest. When people say this is just a base election or this is just a persuasion election, it's always both. There's not a single election. It's not both. And when people criticize me for saying that the way they do you, it makes me nuts. Because of course, of course it's both. Always. It's always, Always both. Jaime, it appears now, contrary to what I thought two days ago, that there's not going to be any health care deal, that it's not, they're not going to be in a subsidy extension even for a month. The subsidies are going to expire. That's, that's the base case right now. Is that, is that good politics for the party?
- [29:06]
Jaime Moore
No.
- [29:07]
Mark
Look, I know it doesn't help people, but is it good politics?
- [29:10]
Jaime Moore
No. Look, I think we, we, we probably all knew that it was going to come down to this. And just to harken back just for you, and I have been talking about this for quite some time. I think I've traveled more domestically this year than President Trump has. And look, and I know that, you know, this is sort of a second term, sort of philosophical go out and sort of build some international legacy. But what we've seen, and I think what the elections a month ago were an indication of is when the president's not on the ballot, Republicans lose one. But two, when the president is not domestically focused, Republicans don't have a lot to rally around. And so what we're going to see, and I think this, I think the president, we all know, he's, he's, he's, he's really politically astute. And I think it's really smart for him to go to Pennsylvania. I think it's really smart for him to get around the country because, you know, to, to the point of the health care, I was just home in Louisiana last week for Thanksgiving and I tell you, people are talking more about drug prices then they're talking about health care specifically. And so I think Christian's right. I think to the greater point is I think the narrative has been lost on health care because for the last 20 years, we've been going back and forth on the ACA and Obamacare and repeal and replace and all these things. And people in the states are just, quite frankly, they're over it. And what they care about most is getting their medication, getting their, their things they need every month for a better price. They have baked in wanting and needing health care, but they still think the costs are too high. And so I think the Republican, I think the Republican Party, if they are talking about cost and prices around drugs, they're going to have a chance to steal the narrative back from the Democrats in a way that's going to be very, very, I think, very, very beneficial for them in the midterms. Now, I don't know how astute they are, Mark. I think what we've seen over the last couple of months is they just haven't been very astute and have that conversation. And that's the reason why we're talking about this today, because people down in the states are like, well, what the heck is going on? They're not talking about health care and costs in a way that makes sense on the ground just yet.
- [31:23]
Mark
Let's, let's say right now on Tuesday in Pennsylvania. Kristen, what percentage of the president's speech do you think will be about affordability?
- [31:30]
Kristen
I mean, I think it has to be at least 30 because, I mean, the rest kind of goes off on whatever.
- [31:38]
Mark
I think, I think the Hill would be, the Republicans on the Hill would be delighted if he did 30.
- [31:42]
Kristen
I know. I mean, it should be. It should. I mean, that, that is, I mean, and I know this part of the world. I also think, you know, Scranton is a fine place to go, but I mean, that's going to be one of the battlegrounds for the House. I think that's probably the most, most difficult one for us, maybe. But then also, you have just, you know, 40 minutes south in Allentown. I mean, that's also ground zero. So that entire quarter of the state is really, you know, two, two House seats, they're very in danger of flipping. I think it's very tough. But these people, I mean, these are like salt the earth people up there. And they are the first. I mean, I grew up There it was blue the whole time. And then when Trump came, it flipped. And I think what, what, you know, they're going to be the first people to come back to Trump, I think, because they love him personally. But the one thing I would say to him, like, for the Democrat messaging, while we have to, like, you know, duck and dodge and have leadership, like, who in the Dem party is going to keep Democrats in line so that, like, if you keep on that road of affordability, then you can make, make it difficult for us. But, like, someone is going to get crazy and start talking about.
- [32:41]
Jaime Moore
Yeah.
- [32:41]
Kristen
You know, things that got off track to begin with.
- [32:44]
Mark
Yeah.
- [32:44]
Jaime Moore
I, look, I think, I think that is generally okay because I think what, in all due respect, I think Republicans are just as we're trying to draw the narrative that Trump's going to fire Pete Hesak tomorrow. I think Republicans have been trying to draw the narrative that there's no leader. And look, we don't, we don't need a, we don't need a Donald Trump. We don't need.
- [33:03]
A leader like Donald Trump. I think what we've realized in electing Mikey Sherrill and Abigail Spamberger and Democrats all over the country in the last week is we've got to build, we got to rebuild our party from the bottom up. You know, we do top down and we try to force Gavin Newsom down people, people's throat in Louisiana and Alabama and Texas and Florida. That's not going to be beneficial for us. And so what we got to do is we got to go case by case, district by district, state by state, and elect these Democrats that way, not just a national party, bringing these Democrats into these states. That's not going to work for us.
- [33:37]
Mark
Let me ask you one more question about the president's trip and then we'll move on to. We've got a couple more topics into your questions. And I don't want to go into great detail, detail this, but you worked at the dnc, tell people briefly, two part question, what bracketing is and what your main pieces of Democratic bracketing would be. You've got Governor Shapiro, very popular, talks, talks more to Trump voters than most. You've got Senator Fetterman, who is not a friend of Governor Shapiro, and then you got a bunch of House members. How would you explain bracketing? And how do you think the party should bracket the president?
- [34:08]
Jaime Moore
Strip what's going to be chaos? So I'm an old press secretary, so I love bracketing. And so essentially the president's going to Pennsylvania and what we would do, put together a strategy to have Democrats on radio, tv, social media, even in some instances, Mark, we would send somebody out there and do a sort of a counter protest press conference. And so I think Pennsylvania is fraught for potential Democratic, to Kristen's point, issues around staying on message. And so I think what we're going to see is Shapiro is in charge. The governor's in charge. He's going to lead it. He controls the state party now. And what Fetterman is doing is he's got to make sure that he's talking to his constituency as well. And so you'll see a little duality between the two of them over the next couple of days.
- [34:58]
Mark
Just explain what bracketing is just like what does the term mean?
- [35:01]
Jaime Moore
Well, essentially it just means wrapping around, you know, media and other things to, to brunt the message of the moment. So Republicans are going on both sides.
- [35:12]
Mark
So you do before the, for the event and after the event. If governor, last question on this. If Governor Shapiro called you and said I'm thinking of going, going outside the Trump event and do doing remarks and taking questions, would you be for that or against that?
- [35:25]
Jaime Moore
I would be against that.
- [35:27]
Mark
Why?
- [35:28]
Jaime Moore
Well, I think that's just as the president of America and so you don't want as a governor to lessen your, your profile by going out and doing sort of a weird protest outside of the event. He's the governor and so he has the authority to do something that's just much more gubernatorial. Of course, he wants to probably run for president one day. And so he look just like Gavin Newsom met Donald Trump on the tarmac when he came last year doing the wildfires. Shapiro's got to do something like that. On that level, he can't go down.
- [35:58]
Mark
And so should he go welcome him to Pennsylvania on the tarmac?
- [36:03]
Jaime Moore
I think so. I would do it if I were Shapiro.
- [36:05]
Mark
Interesting.
- [36:06]
Jaime Moore
It kind of grabs the power back and sets up and I like it.
- [36:10]
Mark
Maybe meet him on tarmac with a joy buzzer. All right, on Russia, Ukraine again.
- [36:17]
Jared and Witkoff are meeting with the Ukrainians today. Putin is in India. I just want to show you a little bit of the friendliness of this. I find it unsettling given the timing. Here is the Wall street journal headline number 20 about this meeting.
- [36:37]
Putin and Modi deep in relationship that has drawn Trump's anger. Russia, India summit tests both countries ties with the Trump administration, which has described the New Delhi as a laundromat for the Kremlin. I'm not sure exactly what Laundromat refers to that. And just listen a little bit of this 21. Just listen to Putin talking about Modi. Maybe, maybe we have it queued to the right place. If not, we'll dump back out.
- [36:59]
Jaime Moore
That's a very important question.
- [37:00]
Wickham
You're going to India.
- [37:02]
Jaime Moore
The prime minister of India you can.
- [37:06]
Mark
Take out of that. It takes too long to settle. But there's a lot of warmth between these two guys. And you see it in the photo ops.
- [37:14]
Just daily polls on this. Jaime, bullish or bearish on a possible deal?
- [37:21]
Jaime Moore
I think I'm still bullish. You know, it seems like.
- [37:26]
President Trump, the two things that he really cares about right now, affordability, you know, whatever, we talk about that later. But this conflict, he really, really cares about getting some reprieve here. And I think next year going into the midterms and as he's starting to build his legacy, he wants to be seen as a peacetime president. And so I think he's going to do all he can. If not, he is, he is going to lose it on Putin. And it's going. And it won't be good, Chris.
- [37:56]
Mark
And Putin did an interview or gave a speech. I can't. I think it's from that interview that we just said a little bit of basically saying he wants more land. He's not doing anything to signal that he's ready for deal. Are you, compared to yesterday, more bullish, more bearish?
- [38:10]
Kristen
I'm more skeptic. I just don't see things happen. I mean, look, the White House stays focusing on the peace in the African countries. I mean, that they're trying to push that. You know, look, here's a successful agreement over here. Here's peace over here. Not talk about Russia, not talk about, you know, I don't see Putin's not coming to the table. He's doing his own thing. I'm very.
- [38:29]
Mark
That Putin, those Putin remarks pushed me to. Very bearish. Sorry, go ahead.
- [38:33]
Jaime Moore
Well, Kristen, do you, do you think that the president is getting to a place where he is also not trusting Putin, or is this sort of a game of cat and mouse right now?
- [38:42]
Kristen
No, I think he lost. You could almost see it. I want to say, maybe it was three months ago. I mean, you could hear it in the president's remarks where he, it's almost like he was washed, like, shaking his hands and saying, like, I'm done. I tried playing with you. Like, you're not a real player. Like, I'm, I'm done. You go worry about, worry about here yeah.
- [38:58]
Mark
Last thing on this, then we'll move to one more topic, then your questions. Paul Gigot, meet me at camera one. Listen, because you read the Journal editorial today, they're still playing this game of saying, well, what the President needs to do is send military aid to Ukraine and put more sanctions on Russia and be in it for the long haul, that the only way to get Putin to back down is to, is to have the United States fight this war. Paul, not happening. It's, it's done. This is either it or the President's walking away. There's no, there's no sustained American support for more American, more American aid. All right. Gavin Newsom said before he's in D.C. today, was in New York yesterday. And you know, there's a lot of benefits to being the front runner, but there's a lot of problems, too, if you're the front runner, which is everybody's coming after you. And I can't tell you the number of things I hear every day from people in private about from the left, the center, the right, everybody just pile on. Poor Gavin Newsom. Here's somebody piling on Gavin Newsom. The dealbook people invited not just Gavin Newsom, but Halle Berry to come speak to their conference right around the time Newsom was speaking. And she, she gave no quarter, asked for none. Here's activist actress Halle Berry just dumping on her. Governor, number 10, please.
- [40:15]
Kristen
Gavin Newsom has vetoed our menopause bill not one, but two years in a row. But that's okay because he's not going to be governor forever.
- [40:27]
And with the way he's overlooked women, half the population by devaluing us in midlife, he probably should not be our next president either. Just saying.
- [40:39]
Mark
Now he's got an explanation for why he's vetoed the bill. We don't need to get into it here, but.
- [40:44]
He'S taken a lot of heat and yet check out the Poly Market. Our partners at polymarket ask the question, who's going to be the Democratic presidential nominee in 2028? Poly market, again, you can go on wager and all sorts of things, including politics coming soon to the United States. Here is the latest. You have a newsome 36% chance according to Poly Market Betters. And you can see that's up substantially from earlier in the year. AOC number two at 11% chance. Mark Kelly number 7%. That's obviously a relatively recent development. So last I'll say, if you haven't read the Atlantic magazine profile of Governor Shapiro, I recommend it to you. It's really well done. It very well explains both these upside and his downside and the, the, the one of the many criticisms that insiders make about Gavin Newsom is that he's got a lot of enemies in the party. A lot of people don't like him. California elite liberals don't like him, some of the donors don't like him, the tech sector doesn't like him, the other governors don't like him. And that some people say, well, Governor Shapiro, very likable guy and Governor Shapiro is a very likable guy and a lot of people like him. But one of the main themes of that article is he's got a lot of enemies in Pennsylvania. A lot of Democrats don't like him either. Now that's part of politics. But here's my question. Jaime, you first, because you're a party. If Governor Newsom said to you I want to close the year strong, I want to, I don't know. And by the way, one of the things he said in deal book, to go back to my lingering view that he may not run is he basically played down the notion that he's definitely running. But if he said I want to keep my options over and I want to close the year strong, how should I spend the rest of December to consolidate my front runner status? What would you tell him?
- [42:19]
Jaime Moore
Look, I just want to caveat this all by saying we are giving and we have given Gavin Newsom exactly what he, what he wants this year. And I think the fact that we're talking about him every day is already a win for him. Yeah, but look, I think, and I was, you know, I am, I am a fan of Gavin Newsom and I've been a fan of Gavin Newsom for a long time since he was mayor of, of San Francisco. And you guys know I worked for Mitch Landrieu who was mayor of New Orleans. And, and so we spent a lot of time with Gavin Newsom and with the other mayors. And so I, and so I've seen him up, up close. So what I would tell Gavin Newsom is, and, and I've telegraphed some of this. He's, he's in some ways doing exactly what he's supposed to do. I wouldn't shift much. You know, he's winning the, the, the pre primary. He's gone out there after all.
- [43:08]
Mark
Right. But, but if he said I want to, I might want to put it in upper next gear. What could he do? What could he do this month?
- [43:14]
Jaime Moore
Well, well, there's not much more you could Do Mark, he's out there. What he's doing is he. He's. He was in New York, he's in D.C. he's on TV, he's on radio, he's on the podcast. He's going out and traveling in these states. What I would say if he had some time over the next month, I would just do a little bit more travel. What he's been doing, people don't realize he's doing a lot of off the record travel as well that he hasn't talked about. You know, he banked in time in Alabama and Mississippi and South Carolina in a way that was really thoughtful. If I were him, I would bank in some time in Arizona and sort of figure out how to get it. He's not. I don't think he does really well in that state just yet. And so I would just do. So I would take my family on a trip and hanging out with some members of Congress or some mayors in some of these places and that's what I would do.
- [43:55]
Mark
Kristen, what could he do in December?
- [43:58]
Kristen
Well, you know, I think the off the record travel is so important right now in the primary phase for you know, either party, like going to meet with people not making it. You have to get these stakeholders in these states and you want to go meet them before they're on camera. So I think that that's important. He's doing it. I think he needs to. You know, I watched that Texas event he did. It looked like it was exhausting to put together. Like, I mean it was fine, but it looked like they literally had to pay people to come. Like you could tell, like felt for the staff, like I felt for their anxiousness. So I think he needs to go and do like one banger event or like something that shows that like momentum is really with him. Honestly, if it would be in an ideal world, he should call up Shapiro and like he should go to Pennsylvania on Tuesday with Shapiro and do a dueling rally and make it bigger and more exciting. Philadelphia, like that's what I would do.
- [44:45]
Mark
Yeah. Interesting. So I've been asking people this question and I'll tell you the one. The best answer I got, the most interesting was from a big newsome fan. Doesn't work for him, but big fan. And this person said he should do quiet trips to Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina, like food bank and whatever. Not publicize them, just do quiet trips and then give like a year end really well written speech about kind of like where he sees America in the holidays. Very gracious. Anyway, I Doubt I'll do any of it, but it's interesting to talk about. All right, quick word from a sponsor, then to your questions. If you want in on the conversation, please raise your hand. Hogan Gidley's favorite clothes, and remember, he's America's clothes horse, come from our friends at poncho. Go to ponchooutdoors.com 2wmm for an extraordinary free shipping. $10 off your first order. Poncho has you covered with all sorts of clothes. Denim, flannel, lots of new styles available now for yourself or for gifts. These clothes fit really well. And Poncho is determined to make sure that whether you buy the western polo, the tough thread you get, the poncho promise free shipping, free returns, free exchanges to make sure you always get the right fit. They stand by every shirt. They'll make it right. If it's not your favorite, go on the website. You'll see there's just tons of great options. And I'm telling you just I've told you about some of our other sponsors. Take it out of the packaging, put it on, then send me the thank you note. It's extremely well made, comfortable and affordable and more affordable than ever right now. $10 off your first order. Free shipping. Poncho outdoors.com 2wmm this is it. The world as you know it is over. Completely done. It's not about to be over. It's over. Some of the scientists who helped build AI are now sounding the alarm. I was selling AI as a great thing for decades and I was wrong. I was wrong.
- [46:39]
Jaime Moore
There's a longer term existential threat that will arise when we create digital beings.
- [46:45]
Mark
That are more intelligent than ourselves.
- [46:47]
Jaime Moore
We have no idea whether we can stay in control.
- [46:50]
Mark
While others say that AI will usher in unfathomable abundance, I've always believed that it's going to be the most important invention that humanity will ever make. This really will be a world of abundance. And among these fears and these fantasies, we seek the story of our future. Listen to the last invention on Apple, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [47:16]
Thank you for your attention to that matter. Ladies and gentlemen, you're a rare honor. High privilege to speak to Jaime and to Kristen. We begin with Aaron. Aaron, if you could unmute, tell folks where you are, where you're spending the holidays and what's on your mind.
- [47:29]
Aaron
Houston, Texas. I'm spending the holidays in tell you ride and what's on my mind.
- [47:35]
Mark
Good choice.
- [47:35]
Aaron
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
- [47:39]
I am somewhat disappointed in people I respect giving this.
- [47:46]
Double tap strike story. Oxygen and plausibility. For the last several days, it's been frustrating to watch.
- [47:55]
We've been dealing with this pattern, this story arc for 10 years now. Shocked headline, Trump says nasty thing Hitler. Democracy at risk. You know, war criminal. And, you know, three days later, the story's gone. It turns out it was, you know, supported by nothing. And like I said, we've just been doing this for 10 years. I mean, for this story to be plausible, it would require, you know, Pete Hegseth hovering over the ISR feed like he's at the Roman Coliseum as he watches this strike. And, you know, he's, you know, thumbs down. They, you know, they've got to die, you know, and everybody subordinate to him in the chain of command has to instantly forget about the UCMJ and the laws of war in their multiple decades of conducting similar strikes.
- [48:55]
That we've been doing for the last 25 years. And like, just all of a sudden, just because he's. My goodness, Pete Hicks has his handsome and he's got this cool tats, and, you know, we. I just completely lost my mind and I killed these people for no reason.
- [49:10]
Mark
Aaron, I totally take your point. And, and I'll say you speak for tens of millions. The only thing I'd say is these strikes are a little different. These are a little different than.
- [49:18]
Wickham
Than.
- [49:19]
Mark
I don't even know that I need to explain it. But we've never seen something quite like this.
- [49:24]
Jaime Moore
No, no, we have.
- [49:25]
Aaron
No, no, no.
- [49:27]
Mark
Using the military on a sustained basis to kill unarmed drug. Alleged drug boats.
- [49:31]
Aaron
Okay, so, so, so. No, no, no, no. There is a real story to tell and real questions to ask about what we are doing in Venezuela. Is this about drugs? Is it about Maduro?
- [49:42]
Mark
That wasn't the story.
- [49:43]
Aaron
That wasn't the WaPo story. It was this.
- [49:45]
Jaime Moore
Well, I had to kill them all.
- [49:48]
Mark
Understand? But, but, but I know a fair number of members of the community think the Washington Post just made that up, but I don't believe that somebody told them that. Somebody told them that. So my point is, to me, there's three separate things, right? There's what you're talking about, which I'll call the War on the Secretary of War. Then the second is this particular incident and the facts around this particular instance. The more we learn about the facts around this particular incident, the more Aaron is right, the more this is. Is explainable. And I said from the beginning, there are lawyers on all this thing. So really, you got to put it on the. Unless they disregarded the Lawyers. You just got to put it on the lawyers. But then lastly, but then lastly, there's the general story, and that turned over to Kristen.
- [50:27]
Jaime Moore
And I'm a.
- [50:27]
Mark
There's this general story which is we've never had an operation like this. We just haven't. And that should be more debated. And that's part of why the Hill is frustrated, because they've been asking for more information on this operation for months and the Pentagon has not given it to them.
- [50:40]
Kristen
Kristen, you know, this debate really does remind me of the debates we had when Obama was using drones over in the Middle East. It's not apples to apples at all, but the same kind of principle of, you know, not having that confirmation and what we were doing. I mean, it's a, it's a different enemy now, right? I mean, it's a, it's a different crisis in the country. It's a different enemy, but same type of debate. I do think, and I do think Democrats are at risk of overplaying their hand, same as the media. There is a valid conversation to have on the, the defense and foreign policy of it. That is a legitimate conversation. But I do think we're going to get distracted with the, you know, I mean, they laid it out. I mean, that's what I think was a day or so ago. Like, if they lay it out, what happened? Okay, now move on. If we get bogged down in that, then, then we're losing. I think what is a credible debate to have in terms of, you know, just principles of war, foreign policy.
- [51:35]
Mark
Yeah. Hi. Mind then Aaron, you back in?
- [51:37]
Jaime Moore
But I'm again, no, I agree with what you guys said, so I won't rehash that. But I think one of the things that I'm hearing from, from Aaron and I hear all the time is people, people are just sick and tired of, of the, of the back and forth and the takedown of the, via the media and, and regardless of, of politics, regardless, Democrats, Republicans, I think people. And I think what Aaron's saying, Aaron, if I'm wrong, let me know. It's, you know, why do you, why would we spend so much time trying to take down the secretary? I know it's politically advantageous and I know it's good tv. And I know to your point, Aaron, he's handsome and he's made for TV and seems like the media outlets have made him the new sort of darling to lift up and take down. And I think people across the country are quite, quite frankly sick of that.
- [52:19]
Aaron
And so bridge, let me bridge Kristen.
- [52:25]
People, the public doesn't care about what's going on in Venezuela. The hag says story, if he's a war criminal is sexy. I get it. Like, you know, I get it because strikes like this have been happening again. Not apples to apples, but pretty close, for 25 years. Nobody cares. And, you know, if you were to look at those legal opinions, Mark, they would say something like this. The president has an inherent power.
- [52:50]
And there's nobody withstanding to challenge this, and no one's going to challenge it. So we can do whatever the hell we want and Congress won't act either.
- [52:58]
Mark
Yes.
- [52:59]
Aaron
I mean, that's. That's what the legal opinion is going to say.
- [53:01]
Mark
Yeah.
- [53:02]
Aaron
And there's a completely legitimate story and questions to be asked. I, I don't like it either.
- [53:09]
Mark
But.
- [53:11]
Aaron
The frustrating part is just watching people give this oxygen and just not calling out immediately saying, okay, this seems ridiculous. This part of the story seems ridiculous. Anyway, that's what I got.
- [53:23]
Mark
Aaron, you speak for tens of millions. Very grateful to you and well said and appreciate it. Thank you. Mark, welcome and tell folks who don't know where you are what's on your mind for Jaime and for Kristen. Hi, and hi to your guest. My name is Mark.
- [53:36]
Jaime Moore
I live in Sydney, Australia.
- [53:38]
Wickham
I consider myself as an Australian mega.
- [53:41]
Mark
I love Trump so much. And I just wanted to talk about Pete Hexit as well. It's just the same thing.
- [53:50]
Aaron
Like, I cannot understand, you know, like it there. Like everything, you know, like, about him, it's like.
- [53:58]
Mark
Hello? Yeah, go ahead. We hear you. Fine. Go ahead, Mark.
- [54:03]
Oh, all right. Lost Mark. Okay, Wickham, welcome in. Tell folks who don't know where you are what's on your mind for. For high mind for Kristen.
- [54:14]
Jaime Moore
I think you still mute, Wickham.
- [54:16]
Mark
There you go. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [54:17]
Wickham
Just a second.
- [54:19]
Mark
You're good?
- [54:20]
Wickham
Am I good?
- [54:21]
Mark
Yes, sir.
- [54:21]
Wickham
Okay. Yeah. Working from Michigan, long time viewer of the program. What I want to talk about is something that Karen from New Hampshire brought up a couple months ago, and it was what she called an out of balance world. And then Max, a couple of days later said the same thing. Manila, one of them talked about what it was that was out of balance. And I want to talk about a couple of things that are out of balance. And the first is trade deficits. $908 billion, $3 billion.
- [54:53]
In the last year. You know how we pay for trade deficits? Have you ever thought about how we pay for trade deficits? I mean, it's obviously not that we sell people stuff because that would be included in trade statistics. No, we sell off financial assets. That's what we do. And I am posting on the chat right now a Bureau of Economic Analysis report that shows the difference between how much we owe abroad and. And how much abroad owns here. And the difference right now is 26.1 trillion. That's trillion with a T dollars in their favor. People abroad own 26 point trillion. $1 trillion more of America than we own abroad.
- [55:30]
Mark
And how much of that's China, Wickham?
- [55:32]
Wickham
I haven't looked.
- [55:33]
Jaime Moore
I don't know a lot.
- [55:35]
Wickham
I just don't know. Maybe a lot. Yeah.
- [55:37]
Mark
But.
- [55:37]
Wickham
No, a different point.
- [55:39]
Mark
Yeah.
- [55:39]
Wickham
I looked at that same number 30 years ago in 1995. It was 1 trillion.
- [55:45]
Mark
Yeah.
- [55:45]
Wickham
So over the last 30 years, we have sold off $25 trillion of this country's financial assets. Now, when I grew up in Indiana, there was a little phrase that described that. It was called selling the farm to.
- [55:58]
Jaime Moore
Pay for the park.
- [56:00]
Wickham
And that is exactly what we're doing in Arkansas.
- [56:02]
Mark
In Arkansas, they say selling your seed corn.
- [56:05]
Wickham
Well, yeah, we were doing that. Yeah, we're doing that, too. And the point I would make about that. One of the points I make about that 9.1 trillion of the amount that the people abroad own in the United States is U.S. debt. We used to say we owe the debt. You don't have to worry about the debt. We owe it to ourselves. Well, no, we don't. We owe 9 trillion to others. So that's the first thing that's out of balance.
- [56:28]
Mark
Do the second one quick, because I want to let Kristen and Jaime respond.
- [56:31]
Wickham
The second one is a report by the center for Immigration Studies that's really just based on Bureau of Labor Statistics data. It says that 17.5% of the working age men 30 to 64 in this country, 20 to 64 in this country, are not even in the workforce. And that adds up to 17 million men not even working. So simultaneously, at the same time, we're selling off the country and we got millions and millions and millions of men who are not even in the workforce. Looks to me like we've created an economy in which there are millions and millions of men who cannot find jobs that their fellow citizens are willing to pay for.
- [57:11]
Mark
Yeah. Wickham, two great points. And you speak for at least millions, maybe not tens, because you're too sophisticated for some. But Kristen and Jaime, thoughts on what Wickham said?
- [57:20]
Kristen
Well, I was just gonna. I mean, you've identified the problems. And I think we probably all agree if there's one. What's one solution to help either. Either point. Either off balance.
- [57:30]
Wickham
Okay, I don't have one. That's the honest answer. President Trump has tried tariffs and people make a lot of fun about the tariffs and say they're not going to work. But nobody talks about the underlying problem which is the, the men out of the workforce and the trade deficit. I just don't see it.
- [57:48]
Kristen
And then I'll education is where a lot of people go first. Right. And, and not to put them in to help going to trade schools and manufacturing like to broaden the horizon and not just have a, you know, I think for a long time we, we as a society said you have to graduate high school, go to a four year college and then good luck. And I think we now we have.
- [58:08]
Wickham
A lot of debt.
- [58:08]
Kristen
Yeah, well, yeah, exactly. So diversifying. That is where a lot of I think policymakers look to.
- [58:14]
Mark
Yeah.
- [58:15]
Jaime Moore
I'm Wickham. Good to see you. And great name by the way. Look, this is a refreshing conversation to have. And, and this is, and this is when some people start calling me a Republican Mark, when I start having this conversation and this I feel very strongly about the, about the China and the selling off American land and what I saw even in New Orleans and up and down the river and there, there, there's been a massive amount of China buying up of refineries and brown, brownfields and all this stuff. And so I'm just so annoyed by that look up. And I think that's something we've got to, we've got to and in some ways you got to think about it state by state. And I think these governors have got to just be a little bit more judicious in the way they dole out their land, foreign direct investment. So that's one thing and then second thing, and this is something that Mitch Landry worked on in, in New Orleans and even Bobby Jindal when he was governor of Louisiana, this is something that they worked on together. And having all these people out of the workforce, Wickham is something and men and women. But I get your point. This is, this is going to be a big issue for us and this is something that we've got to wrap our heads around. And to Kristen's point, this is something that Bobby Jindal tried to do, you know, and my dad, who's a good Democrat was opposing this because he's a education guy. But 15 years later, we probably should invest in. Bobby Jindal was trying to build a way for, for kids out of high school to get free technical and community college, get their two year degree, two year program. And so we got to do a little bit more of that. We've got to partner our community technical colleges in America are jewels that we don't invest enough in. And so I think to your, to your point, we've got to do a little bit more of that, but we got to get people off the sideline because that's going to make us less competitive overall.
- [59:52]
Mark
Wick, I'm really grateful to you. Let's say one more thing real quick though. We're up against the clock, but please do real quick.
- [59:58]
Wickham
If the 342 million people in this country imagine they're all in four poor person families, that's 85 and a half million four person family. Divide that into a $903 billion trade deficit and you get $10,560 per family that we are living beyond our means.
- [60:15]
Mark
Crazy Wickham, thank you for that. It's an important topic and we're always happy to discuss it. Real quick, I'm going to, I'm going to read you something from my inbox in a minute that will make some of you laugh. But first a message. One more sponsor. The folks at Lean want to help you get healthy and they want to give you 30% off your purchase on BrickHouseSale.com don't need a promo code, just go to BrickHouseSale.com avoid fad diet juice cleanses those injectables. No cabbage soup, no raw food, just healthy clean doctor designed ways of leading a healthier life. Losing weight this is a Cyber Monday sale from doctors. You can go to Brickhouse Nutrition BrickhouseSale.com for Brickhouse Nutrition products like those from Lean that will help you lose weight without injectables. Field of Greens, the super fruit and vegetable drink. All of the products there to help you sleep better, feel better and lose weight in a healthy way. Available to you 30% off right now. Go to brickhousesale.com to save 30% off. No promo code needed. Just go to the site. Everything on there will be marked down 30%. Brickhousesale.com thank you for your attention to this matter. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna tell you what's in my inbox and I'm gonna tell you without comment, but I got a 30% off sale offer from one of my fellow writers on substack. 30% off. Thank you for being a new subscriber. He says if you're considering upgrading to a paid subscription, we wanted to make it a little easier. So here's a special link to get 30% off as you act by midnight from Ryan Lizza. So if you want, if you want to read Ryan Liza Substack 30 off. Jaime and Kristen couldn't be more grateful to you both for joining. How was your experience today?
- [61:47]
Kristen
It was fun. We had a good time.
- [61:50]
Mark
All right.
- [61:50]
Jaime Moore
I just want to talk to Wickham all the time, so just have you back and help him on.
- [61:57]
Mark
Your appearances. Coming up later today on two way, 4:00 Eastern Time, the group chat is back. Emma Morris, Nina Turner, Robbie Suave joined today by the great Steve Olikara. All four of them will join. They'll talk about news of the day. If you've never seen the group chat, Today's the day. 4:00pm Eastern Time for the group chat two way tonight, 6:00 clock tonight. I'll be back with full coverage of everything that's gone on. The latest on the pipe bomber, alleged pipe bomber and Gavin Newsom's trip to Washington and of course, the president's photo opportunity as he tries to make more peace. And then seven o', clock, another option for two way, another chance to see Robbie because Robbie Swarvy is Michael Moynihan's guest at 7:00 Eastern Time.
- [62:36]
On the Moynihan Report. So three two ways, 4:00pm, 6:00pm and seven tomorrow on this show in about 23 hours, we lose Kristen, unfortunately. Kristen, thank you for spending two days with us. Jaime will be back. He's still going to be in California.
- [62:49]
Jaime Moore
Yeah.
- [62:51]
Mark
Thanks for getting up early. And the great Larry o' Connor will join us, taking the baton handoff from Kristen. So Larry o' Connor and Heima will join me tomorrow, all of you, as part of the two way community here. Thank you for being part of it. Thanks to Kristen Haima. And I'll see you at 6 o' clock after the group chat at 4. Have a great day, everybody.