Trump's Greenland Deal Has "Broken Brains" in Europe and Washington: Will U.S. Gain Any Territory?

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Morning Meeting

Episode: Trump's Greenland Deal Has "Broken Brains" in Europe and Washington: Will U.S. Gain Any Territory?
Date: January 22, 2026
Host: Mark Halperin (2WAY)
Panelists: Hogan Gidley, Kevin Walling

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Overview

This episode dives deep into Trump's headline-grabbing Greenland deal, examining its political fallout across Europe, Washington, and beyond. Alongside expert analysis of U.S. foreign policy, intelligence partnerships, and implications for global alliances, the panel also tackles upcoming Congressional events, domestic issues like fundraising and healthcare, and the broader reshaping of America’s global strategy. Light-hearted banter and listener questions pepper a dense, insightful morning meeting recapping the day’s news agenda and strategic implications—especially regarding the sudden diplomatic shake-up with Greenland.

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1. The Greenland Deal: What Really Happened and Why It Matters

Segment Starts: 08:51

Key Discussion Points

• Unprecedented U.S. Access: The administration’s deal seems to grant the U.S. military unfettered access in Greenland, possible rights to mineral resources, and the ability to bypass the Danish parliament for future U.S. actions.
• Strategic Motivations: The panel highlights the strategic significance of Greenland, lying between the U.S., Russia, and China—not merely for minerals, but for security and military dominance in the northern hemisphere.

Expert Insights & Debate

• Could Trump Get This Without the Drama?
  • Hogan Gidley (11:21): "It could not have happened but for Donald Trump… You can't get to where we want to go without the bluster, without the toughness, because no one's been able to do it until now. It's just virtually impossible."
  • Kevin Walling (13:13): "Probably not… one of the things he got out of this was a focus on Russia and China in the Arctic… only came with the bluster."
• Speed and Leverage: Trump’s tactics are credited with changing the international dynamic—hastening the deal and spotlighting Russian and Chinese threats.
• Potential Risks:
  • Kevin Walling (16:44): "My only concern is intelligence sharing… If there’s any kind of pull-back with the Europeans with Five Eyes, what have you, that would be my only concrete fear."
  • Hogan Gidley (17:04): Warns of Europe seeking "other partners and allies" (i.e., Russia, China) if U.S. relations sour too severely.

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2. Fallout Across Europe & Washington

Memorable Quote (14:19):

"It was such a fascinating moment… Stoltenberg… said, 'Thank you so much. These countries should be doing more. They're not doing it because you're forcing them to the table and forcing them to pay their fair share…’" – Hogan Gidley

• European Response: The maneuver has alarmed European leaders, sparking warnings about lost trust and possible shifts toward Chinese partnerships (17:35).
• Domestic Backlash Predictable: Halperin notes the American media’s polarization—some will frame the deal as catastrophic for America’s reputation, others as needed dynamism.

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3. Ukraine Deal-Making and Peace Hopes

Segment Begins: 18:23

• Witkoff and Kushner Diplomatic Missions: They’re brokering ongoing Russia-Ukraine discussions. Panelists share personal forecasts:
  • Hogan Gidley (19:20): "Bullish."
  • Kevin Walling (19:34): "Bearish."
  • Mark Halperin (19:35): "I'm like a hybrid bear-bull."
• Presidential Remarks: Trump appears eager for resolution, lamenting the “chaotic” nature of press scrums surrounding negotiations (20:18).

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4. The Board of Peace: Jared Kushner’s Appeal

Key Quote (22:46):

"I know it's a little risky to be investing in a place like this, but we need you to come take faith, invest in the people, try to be a part of it… I think that the war is over. Let's do our best to try working together. Our goal here is peace between Israel and the Palestinian people..." – Jared Kushner

• International Involvement: Kushner highlights new peace efforts in the Middle East, urging calm and investment and confirming Trump’s direct influence in achieving results.
• Panel Analysis: They note Trump’s "legacy play" and fascination with creating new global institutions that bypass traditional bodies like the U.N. (25:32). The need for better domestic messaging is identified.

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5. Congressional Headlines: Jack Smith Testimony & Clinton Citations

Key Segments: 27:00–32:16

• Jack Smith Testimony:
  • Kevin Walling: Predicts major cable coverage, noting “the right hates Jack Smith more than the left loves him” (29:32).
  • Partisan aims: Dems want to show Smith would “do it again,” GOP wants to paint investigations as corrupt political payback.
• Contempt Citations for the Clintons:
  • Debate over how many Democrats will vote to hold Bill and Hillary Clinton in contempt connects to dynamics of party loyalty, transparency, and internal politics.
  • Kevin Walling (30:48): "I think more than that, I'm bullish... upwards of 50."
  • Hogan Gidley (30:45): Estimates 18, then revises lower based on procedural history.

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6. U.S. Domestic Pulse—ICE, Healthcare, Economy

Key Discussion: 34:03–37:53

• ICE Enforcement: Vice President’s visit to Minnesota sparks debate over immigration enforcement, public perception, and communication strategy.
• Economic Anxiety: New polling shows only 32% of Americans feel better off than a year ago, 50% worse off—a major concern for the White House.
  • Kevin Walling (37:22): "Those are some Biden numbers…"

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7. Democratic Politics: Gavin Newsom and Rahm Emanuel's Plays

Gavin Newsom at Davos (38:54–44:24):

• Strategic Calculations: Newsom’s aggressive, Trumpian social media tactics and direct international criticisms compared; panel splits on effectiveness and calculations.
  • Mark Halperin (43:16): "He's not as quick on his feet as he thinks he is… It's too calculating and people can see it."
• Rahm Emanuel’s Age-Limit Proposal (44:24–46:59):
  • Panelists skeptical about its electoral appeal.
  • Hogan Gidley (45:17): “No. Because all 75 year olds aren't created equal… If you're older than 75 and you can do the job, fine. I don't care.”

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8. Listener Q&A Highlights

Select Timestamps:

• [48:08] Croft (Calgary): How should Canada navigate Trump’s new assertiveness?
  • Hogan: “Trump loves a convert more than a day-one supporter… come to the table.”
• [53:42] Luke: Canada’s pivot to China “not paying off”—EVs, trade feel one-sided.
  • Kevin: “There was all this hope… the curtain’s up on [China’s] Belt and Road in terms of what China extracts from these countries.”
• [57:49] Mallory (South Carolina): Concerns over public land, healthcare, income inequality, and domestic priorities.
  • Hogan: Affirms 2028 will hinge on domestic issues.
  • Kevin: “You speak for millions of Americans.”
  • Mark Halperin: Highlights affordability struggle as defining public sentiment.

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9. Memorable Quotes (with Timestamps)

• On Trump’s Negotiation Style:
  • Hogan Gidley [11:21]: "You can't get to where we want to go without the bluster, without the toughness, because no one's been able to do it until now."
• European Strategic Shift:
  • Kevin Walling [13:13]: "Refocusing on Russia and China… only came with the bluster."
• Middle East Peace Appeal:
  • Jared Kushner [22:46]: "Let's focus on the positive stories… If we believe that peace is possible, then peace really can be possible."
• Newsom’s Calculated Image:
  • Mark Halperin [43:16]: "He’s not as quick on his feet as he thinks he is… It’s too calculating and people can see it."
• Public Discontent:
  • Kevin Walling [37:22]: "Those are some Biden numbers, Hogan. I don’t know, I’d be a little worried."
• Canadian Perspective:
  • Hogan Gidley [50:09]: "The one thing Donald Trump loves more than a day one immovable supporter is a convert."

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10. Notable Moments

• [04:13] “Can’t lose with kids and animals”—TV news programming wisdom in a lighter aside.
• [18:23] Panel’s real-time reactions to ongoing Russia-Ukraine peace efforts.
• [24:22] Kushner’s call for world media to “just calm down for 30 days” and “give peace a chance.”
• [48:08] Canadian caller highlights the U.S.-Canada asymmetry and diplomacy challenges.
• [57:49] South Carolina caller spotlights frustrated public sentiment over healthcare and environmental policy.
• [63:12] Show ends with the announcement of new 2WAY CEO Joe Ruffalo and a tease for new programs.

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11. Tone & Style

The tone is lively, direct, with a blend of sharp policy analysis, panelist banter, and real-time engagement with the day’s news. Mark Halperin steers the conversation with focus, fielding diverse perspectives—sometimes skeptical, often insightful—on fast-moving headlines in a way that demystifies high-stakes diplomacy, partisan intrigue, and political strategy for the listening audience.

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12. Conclusion

This episode captures the real-time shockwaves—as well as the strategic calculations—caused by the Trump administration’s Greenland strategy, putting America’s foreign policy on a new footing. It contextualizes high-drama headlines while folding in domestic anxieties, partisan maneuvering, and granular insights from newsmakers and listeners alike. For those seeking both the inside baseball and the big-picture implications, this “Morning Meeting” delivers a bracing, unvarnished view of America’s evolving role—and turbulence—on the world stage.

Transcript

[Mark Carney]

This is it. The world as you know it is over. Completely done.

[Jared Kushner]

It's not about to be over.

[Mark Carney]

It's over.

[Mark Halperin]

Some of the scientists who helped build AI are now sounding the alarm.

[Hogan Gidley]

I was selling AI as a great.

[Mark Halperin]

Thing for decades, and I was wrong.

[Mark Carney]

I was wrong.

[Mark Halperin]

There's a longer term existential threat that.

[Kevin Walling]

Will arise when we create digital beings that.

[Mark Halperin]

That are more intelligent than ourselves.

[Kevin Walling]

We have no idea whether we can stay in control.

[Mark Halperin]

While others say that AI will usher in unfathomable abundance, I've always believed that.

[Hogan Gidley]

It'S going to be the most important invention that humanity will ever make.

[Mark Halperin]

This really will be a world of abundance. And among these fears and these fantasies, we seek the story of our future. Listen to the last invention on Apple, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[James Patterson]

I'm James Patterson. I write way too many books. Welcome to Hungry Dogs. The title comes from my maternal grandmother, Isabel Zelvis Morris. Nan used to always say, hungry dogs run faster, James. And I've been running fast ever since. Here's what will be coming your way soon, and this is a really terrific list. I think you'll hear from some incredible people like Stacey Abrams. Yay. BJ Novak.

[Hogan Gidley]

Yay.

[James Patterson]

Kathy Bates, Dolly Parton, Josh Gad. And Pope Leo. Okay, maybe not Pope Leo, but who knows? Maybe he'll show up. Hungry dogs run faster. Thank you, Grandma, for turning me into a hopeless, obsessive compulsive. Listen to Hungry Dogs with James Patterson. That'd be me on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

[Reporter]

Is a vast, almost entirely uninhabited and undeveloped territory sitting undefended in a key strategic location between the United States, Russia, and China. That's exactly where it is, right smack in the middle. Wasn't important nearly when we gave it back. You know, when we gave it back, it wasn't the same as it is now. It's not important for any other reason. You know, everyone talks about the minerals. There's so many places there's no rare earth, no such thing as rare earth. There's rare processing, but there's so much rare earth. And this. To get to this rare earth, you got to go through hundreds of feet of ice. That's not the reason we need.

[Mark Halperin]

All right, for those of you listening on the podcast, that's that baby thing. AI generated babies. It makes me laugh every time. Our guest co hosts, a comedy analyst, Sons of the South, Kevin Walling is here. Kogan Gidley. Kevin, be a deconstructionist. Like you're teaching a graduate seminar. Why is that baby thing so funny? What about it? It's so funny.

[Kevin]

People just love to see babies talk like adults, I guess. I don't know. There was a raft of movies with like babies talking as adult adults that were fairly successful.

[Mark Halperin]

Hogan is the Gene pretty well. Hogan's the Gene Shallot of comedy. He's going to explain this to us all. Hogan. Why is that so funny?

[Hogan Gidley]

Well, funny. I don't know if it's funny per se. I will tell you this. My old journalism professor one time told me when you were cutting packages for television news.

[Mark Halperin]

Two.

[Hogan Gidley]

Two rules. One rule, two points. You can't lose with kids and animals.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah, speaking of which, are you both are probably too young to have ever watched the show? Lancelot Link, Secret Shimp. You guys ever seen that?

[Kevin]

I have not.

[Mark Halperin]

Okay, so here's the go. On YouTube, the premise is very much like this. You mentioned it. Babies and animals. It's apes, monkeys as secret agents. And they just are lip syncing. They give the monkeys, like chewy food to eat, so their mouths open up. And then there's human narrators. And the whole premise of the show is just watching monkeys talk like humans. Very funny show. I recommend it to you. Lancelot Link, Secret Chimp.

[Kevin]

Was Charlton Hesson ever a guest star?

[Mark Halperin]

And neither was Barbara Feldon in as well. Welcome to the morning meeting. This program, Monday through Friday, takes you through today's news in the style of the Network News division, Television News Division's morning meetings. We're not here to fight like it's cable news. There's no Scott Jennings here. No Scott Jennings type figure. Although I do like Scott. We'll just try to explain everything to you. We'll look forward to the day. I'll run through the daybook and then after we chat for a bit, we'd love to have your questions and comments. If you're here on the platform, want to get in on the conversation whether you've ever raised your hand or not. Someone emailed. One of you emailed me yesterday, said, I only want questions from the regulars. I just like the regulars. And we love the regulars. But we also like news people, new people. So if you've never raised your hand, please do. If you're watching on Axe or YouTube, let me just give you some advice. Meet me at camera too. No smack in the chat. Peace, love and understanding is what we're all about here. You'll see today, Kevin and Hogan will pretend to fight at times, but then they'll go out for a Guinness at 11. And I mean am not PM so thank you for being here, gentlemen.

[Hogan Gidley]

Can't drink all day unless you start in the morning.

[Mark Halperin]

That's science. Yeah.

[Kevin]

Hey, did that reverse psychology work with the no smack the other day or you still bring on the smack?

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah, I'm still waiting for the algorithmic report, so I don't know, but probably not because every day there's a lot of smack in there. We're going to talk a lot about foreign policy today, but also Jack Smith is on Capitol Hill, the vice president's going to Minnesota, some 2028 stuff and a trend about fundraising, political fundraising that I think is super important. So all that coming up. First, the day book in a moment, but a word from a sponsor. Our friends at Cozy Earth. One of you emailed me yesterday and said, oh my goodness, Mark, why don't you talk about the towels more? Because she bought the towels and she now she's just like, I'll never buy any other towels. Cozy Earth will say all sorts of things and they'll sell it all to you because you're a fan of this show. For 20% off, if you go to codezeroth.com and use the promo code 2WMM, you'll get 20% off those towels, the sheets, the blankets, including the bubble Cuddle blanket. Another one of you emailed me yesterday and said, mark, why don't you tell people that the bottle Cuddle blanket is washable? It is. And of course, if you're going to give one to one of your pets, you're going to want to wash it on a fair amount. So there it is. Washable. It's all 100% money back guarantee. If you don't like it, it's, it's all 20% off right now with the promo code 2 WMM. Go to cozyearth.com, buy what you want. I don't even mention the pants today because it's so obvious. You should buy the pants, start your new year off right and give your home the luxury it deserves. Make the home the best part of your Life. Head to cozyearth.com again, use the promo code 2WMM. And when they ask you where you heard about this, tell them Kevin and Hogan sent you.

[James Patterson]

I'm James Patterson. I write way too many books. Welcome to Hungry Dogs. The title comes from my maternal grandmother, Isabel Zelvis Morris. Nan used to always say, hungry dogs run faster, James. And I've been running fast ever since. Here's what will be coming your way soon and this is a really terrific list. I think you'll hear from some incredible people like Stacey Abrams.

[Mark Halperin]

Yay.

[James Patterson]

BJ Novak.

[Hogan Gidley]

Yay.

[James Patterson]

Kathy Bates, Dolly Parton, Josh Gad. And Pope Leo. Okay, maybe not Pope Leo, but who knows, maybe he'll show up. Hungry Dogs run faster. Thank you, Grandma, for turning me into a hopeless obsessive compulsive. Listen to Hungry Dogs with James Patterson. That'd be me on Apple, Spotify, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

[Mark Halperin]

There you go. All right, ladies and gentlemen, the Daybook. Is the president wheels up yet? I don't think he is because I don't even think he's met with Zelensky at the President's in Davos. Still had a huge ceremony this morning, which we'll show you some of in a moment. At some point he will go wheels up to the United States. Having had a very eventful time in Davos. The vice President is going to Minnesota today. Roundtable with local leaders and community members, then some remarks. I believe he'll take questions from the media. Lots going on on Capitol Hill. Jack Smith testifies at 10 o'. Clock. A lot of buildup from places like Politico about this, but he's already been, he's already released the transcript, so I'm not sure how much news is going to come out of this. The transcript of his private testimony that he gave a while ago. The Minority Leader, Mr. Jeffries, press conference at 1:00'. Clock. AOC and Laurel Lee hold a news conference supporting passage of the bipartisan Defiance Act. I confess I don't know. You guys know what the Defiance act is? Not sure what that is.

[Kevin]

Sounds sexy, whatever it is.

[Hogan Gidley]

Something else, but I can't remember what it is.

[Mark Halperin]

All right. Ways and means hearing at 2:30. Lots going on in Europe. Even in the aftermath of yesterday's mysterious detente between the President and NATO. A lot of follow on action. The Premier of Greenland, Ms. Nielsen has a press conference in about two hours at 11 Eastern Time. She put out a long statement yesterday that was relatively conciliatory, upbeat and forward looking. The President Zelensky meeting Jared with Jared Kushner and Steve Witkoff at some point today. Go to Moscow. They were in Davos today presenting on a different matter. But they go to meet with Putin face to face. Elon Musk in about an hour and a half is making. I don't know if he's ever been to Davos, but he's not a regular. But Larry Fink is interviewing him. In about an hour and a half. And some jobs numbers came down earlier today. Paul, Those job numbers, like most of the economic data we got, I've gotten lately, were mixed. Correct? Correct. Kind of like what expected. Not. Not great. Not whatever. All right, let's start with Greenland. Here is the Politico headline. I think this is an accurate political headline. Not every political headline, I would say is 100% accurate, but 103, this one is Trump's Greenland gambit has broken brains across Washington. You could say the same thing about. About Europe. And guys, we could. We've talked all week about this. Here's the. Here's the one question I want to ask you about the deal. We don't know what's in the deal, which is part of why I don't want to talk about it very much because we'd be analyzing Casper, the friendly ghost in the dark. Horrible metaphor. Let's say the deal is what most people say, which is the US Is not going to own all of Greenland. The US Is going to have access to a lot of real estate to build military facilities. The US Is going to have some connection to maybe most favored nation on get access to the rare earth minerals, and there's going to be a lot of cooperation to keep China and Russia out of the area. Is that deal. Assuming that's what the deal is. Hogan, critics say the president could have had that deal without all of this kerfuffle. Supporters say the thing he got, which he couldn't have gotten without the kerfuffle, is he can do stuff now without approval of the Danish parliament. Once the deal struck, he doesn't have to go to the Danish parliament to get to do things. And I believe that that was the thing the president actually wanted and I believe he got it. I believe. Not sure. So, Hogan, could the president have gotten this exact deal or something pretty close to it without the kerfuffle?

[Hogan Gidley]

No, no, no. Listen, this is what's so interesting. We were on live yesterday on this very program. Different. Different co host with myself. It wasn't Kevin. We were kind of live in real time talking about the present speech and we were basically saying, I think what's happening here is he lays out this pragmatic case for what he's trying to accomplish. Everyone thought he was going to come in fiery and blustery and he didn't he systematically, you know, surgically laid out. Here's why this is important for us. Here's what we should do. And I demand we get together and have talks. We Speculated he'd probably have a deal by the time he left. And what happened a few years, a few, excuse me, hours later, after we got off air, he basically announces this deal. It could not have happened but for Donald Trump. And the reason, you know, that is because people always try to separate his bluster for the, you know, look at what he does, not what he says. I would argue you can't get to where we want to go without the bluster, without the toughness, because no one's been able to do it until now. It's just virtually impossible. And Europe is kind of a go along to get along conglomerate.

[Mark Halperin]

So, Hogan, what did he get changed the dynamic? One question I understand conceptually we're talking about, but what did he get, as far as you can tell, that he wouldn't have gotten had he not threatened military action and threatened the terrorists? What's a specific military. I don't think. What's the specific thing he got? He did. He didn't rule it out. Stephen Miller, his top aide, touted it. What did he get? What's a specific thing he got that he couldn't have gotten?

[Hogan Gidley]

I think the deal itself is something he couldn't have gotten without being who he is.

[Mark Halperin]

Because. Because they would have pussyfooted around and dragged it out.

[Hogan Gidley]

Yes, yes. Like they were.

[Mark Halperin]

So he got speed. Kevin, could he have gotten this deal without. Without the hullabaloo brouhaha rat, a tat tat.

[Kevin]

Probably not. Yeah, probably not. I think one of, to your point, Mark, one of the things that he got out of this was a focus on Russia and China in the Arctic. Something that if he had just called up the Danish prime Minister and said, we want to reopen our Cold War era bases, that would have flown under the radar and we would have reopened those and invested in those kind of, you know, in the Iron Dome that he wants to build over Greenland. But again, the refocusing on our Iron Dome refocus on Russia and China and what they're up to in terms of the lanes, the shipping lanes in the Arctic is something that only came with the bluster. I will also note one of my interesting takeaways was seeing the Secretary General of NATO saying, had Trump not come back for a second term, would you all be spending 5%? He was on with Bret Barry yesterday, actually praising Donald Trump and that kind of bluster to get the Europeans to do something. And I give the President some credit on that front, as does the Secretary General who's navigated Trump 2.0 very effectively, balancing the interests of Europe and balancing, you know, a present that kind of shoots from the hip.

[Hogan Gidley]

And hey, interestingly enough, I guess it was NATO in the first time when we were there. Mark, you'll recall there was a moment where Trump came out, basically said, look, if you're not going to put up your 2%, we're out. We're done with this situation. People freaked out. Everyone there was running around crazy. And then I remember Stoltenberg, I guess, pulled him aside in a private room, and I was standing there and he goes, Mr. President, thank you so much. These countries should be doing more. They're not doing it because you're forcing them to the table and forcing them to pay their fair share, which is something I thought the left was for. It was such a fascinating moment. And Kevin's absolutely right here, because in this same thing, we've also heard countless times about how Russia is crazy for going after Ukraine, which I would agree with, but their aggression must be stopped. But for some reason, that Greenland didn't count in that Russian aggression. And because now news stories have flowed around about China and Russia going around that landmass trying to figure it out. And the heightened awareness and spotlight Donald Trump helped put on Russia and China, as Kevin so astutely pointed out, is a major win for this to go.

[Kevin]

Only came with that bluster. Only came with that bluster.

[Mark Halperin]

Okay, you're both brilliant on this, and I just pat you both on the back. You will not hear this conversation anywhere else that I've heard. Because. And privately, because the media is so hostile to the President. One more. And we gotta be tight here because a ton of topics to get to the. The. There, there. There already are. And there will be many, many more symposia, discussions, op ed pieces about how the President has destroyed the relationship with Europe, how he's emboldened and empowered Putin and China, how this is a disaster for the United States. Okay, again, if you don't like the status quo and you're president and you want to change the status quo, you got to break some eggs. You got to flip over some Parcheesi boards. You got to do some stuff. If the critics are right, that there is, there's lingering damage to the United States because he's not the President of Europe, he's not the president of NATO. If there's any lingering damage, the United States, our security, our prosperity, our people from the last few days around and last few weeks around Greenland, and the President's bluster was, what would it be? What's the thing you worry about, that could be significant damage, not to the feelings of the Canadians, but to the people of the United States. Kevin, what would it be?

[Kevin]

My only concern is intelligence sharing, right. If there's any kind of pullback with the Europeans with five eyes, what have you, that would be my only concrete fear.

[Mark Halperin]

It's a great one. But of course they have nowhere to go. They need us on intelligence. So it's a good one, certainly very good one. But I don't think it's going to happen. Hogan.

[Hogan Gidley]

I think some of the leaders spelled it out where they said, listen, keep messing around with us and we'll just have to go to Russia and China. Forget the fact that I think that they've been in large part funding Russia by buying their oil. So the whole thing is ridiculous. They're trying to protect Ukraine while funding the aggression against Ukraine. But I do think that's where you could see some issues. When you begin to kind of muck around with the status quo, they're going to look for other partners and allies. And if Russia and China are willing, that could be a long term issue. I don't think it's going to be.

[Mark Halperin]

Go ahead, Kevin, go ahead.

[Kevin]

And to Hogan's point, you've seen a bevy of foreign ministers in Beijing from European countries, Ireland was just there, a few other countries, and Mark Carter just there in the last, in the last two weeks.

[Mark Halperin]

That to me is the damage. They start buying Chinese EVs, they start doing belt and road projects. That to me, but that's, but that was true before. But man, the United States better get these countries to stop going to kowtow. But of course Trump's going to go kowtow to Xi or at least summit with him.

[Hogan Gidley]

Kowtow. She. But understand this too. The operation we did in Venezuela, which is what, 85, 89 minutes, whatever it was, Chinese officials were in Venezuela at working out partnerships and deals. And Trump goes, yoink, I'm just going.

[Kevin]

To take Maduro out with Chinese anti aircraft technology. Chinese anti radar aircraft technology on the ground.

[Mark Halperin]

Yes. All right, Ukraine, we got to go because we got a ton of stuff to get to again. Raise your hand if you want in. So Witkoff's and Jared, as I said, are going to Ukraine or to Moscow. The president's meeting with Zelensky, Zelensky speaking at Davos, Witkoff said there's only one issue left to resolve. Now. The two big issues have been the security guarantees for the Ukrainians from the United States and from the Brits and the French and others. And then. And then the territorial issues. Now, I don't know, which I couldn't determine by showtime which of the two issues Witkoff is basically saying is resolved. But there's a, There's a. There's a degree of confidence today from American officials higher than it's ever been, that there'll be a deal. Not saying there'll be a deal, but it's higher than it's been. Hogan, are you. Are you this morning? One word answer. One word answer. Bearish or bullish? That there'll be a deal.

[Hogan Gidley]

Which one's the good one?

[Mark Halperin]

The bull.

[Hogan Gidley]

Yeah, bullish.

[Kevin]

Yeah, I get confused with that, too.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah, Just imagine the Wall street bull. That's how you remember.

[Hogan Gidley]

I know, I know. I'm just messing with you, but bullish.

[Mark Halperin]

Bullish. Kevin.

[James Patterson]

Bearish.

[Mark Halperin]

Bearish. Okay. I'm a. I'm like a hybrid bear.

[Kevin]

Bull.

[Mark Halperin]

Witkoff. Witkoff made me bullish. But I just don't think Putin's ever going to do a deal. So we'll see. All right, Again, we're going to move on.

[Kevin]

And that's. The Lenski meeting just wrapped up. It was under an hour.

[Mark Halperin]

Okay, I'm sorry. Similar before. Sorry, go ahead, go ahead.

[Kevin]

No, just similar kind of diplomatic telegraphing based on the meeting. Under 50. Under about a 50 minute meeting.

[Mark Halperin]

I forgot to show you one thing. I should have showed it on the front end, but I want you to see it. This is the President answering a question about this matter after the. The big ceremony this morning. Here's the President. What's your plan for Ukraine? Sir?

[Reporter]

What is your plan for Ukraine?

[Mark Halperin]

What will you say to Vladimir Zelinsky today?

[Reporter]

As you know, today the president and we'll be discussing it. We're meeting with President Putin today or tomorrow, and some people are going over and I think they're getting close. A lot of people are being killed. We got to get it done.

[Mark Halperin]

Done.

[Reporter]

We don't get that done or.

[Mark Halperin]

But you have failed so far, Mr. President. You failed to bring peace to Ukraine. What are you going to do with Yemen? It was. It was the loudest, most chaotic presidential scrum I have ever seen. Thank you very much. We didn't hear it in that exchange, but he came out and before he could even answer, I think that's the only question he answered. The reporters were just screaming. No one would. No one would yield. It was crazy border peace event this morning. If you didn't watch it live, you'll never be able to go back and recreate. It was. It was an incredible thing, all these foreign leaders, almost none of whom I recognize, because they're the B team of foreign leaders, because the A team countries don't want to be part of it. Putin wasn't there and Netanyahu wasn't there. Putin and Netanyahu share one thing in common. They're both considered war criminals. And if they leave their country, they could be arrested. So they didn't come. But lots of foreign leaders there. The President spoke twice, Witkoff and Jared, because of course they were involved in in the Middle east deal as well as their current work on Russia, Ukraine. They both spoke. Jared was incredibly impressive. You had a slide show. It was quite something. Here's just a little bit of it because I want everybody to see it for history. Here's the President entering the Board of Peace Meeting 107. Please, please welcome the chair. Name any of those leaders. Look at that group.

[Kevin]

President of the United States of America.

[Mark Halperin]

It looks like the train J. Trump, the outb 7 train. It looks like to me. You guys know it. Can you guys name any of those world leaders? No, you can't.

[Kevin]

I mean, is that Orban? Is that Victor Orban in the blue?

[Hogan Gidley]

There's Donald Trump.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah, got a Trump. So here is Jared, part of Jared's slideshow, 108 explaining what happened in phase one, how much food aid and other assistance there's been into Gaza and what their hopes are going forward. And then he urged the international community, social media, media, cynical observers, to give peace a chance. 108, please.

[Jared Kushner]

So the countries have all been incredibly generous. We'll be doing the first conference where we'll announce a lot of the contributions that will be made in couple weeks in Washington from the private sector. There'll be amazing investment opportunities. I know it's a little risky to be investing in a place like this, but we need you to come take faith, invest in the people, try to be a part of it. And then finally I'll just talk to people on the media and on the social media, which is this deal only happened because we worked with Israel, we worked with Turkey, we worked with Qatar, we worked with Saudi, we worked with Egypt. I mean, everyone worked together. We worked with uae. We all work together to make this happen. I see a lot of people trying to escalate, you know, criticizing Israel or Israelis, criticizing Turkey or Qatar. Just calm down for 30 days. I think that the war is over. Let's do our best to try working together. Our goal here is peace between Israel and the Palestinian people. Everyone wants to live Peacefully. Everyone wants to live with dignity. Let's put our efforts towards promoting those who are doing the work to build this up, like Ali and his committee. Let's focus on the positive stories and let's just calm down, turn a new chapter. And if we believe that peace is possible, then peace really can be possible. So we're going to continue to work every day. We need all of your help to do it. And again, I just really want to thank President Trump for his leadership in doing this. This would not have been possible without your commitment to this.

[Mark Halperin]

All right. I don't read the chat, but I glance at it. I'm just, I feel bad how cynical some of you are about this. This is an incredible achievement for the world. Even a commentator on the BBC said this is an incredible achievement. And he's otherwise pretty hostile to the president about other matters. Kevin, what are your hopes for the Board of Peace?

[Kevin]

Well, listen, you just saw Jared channeling his inner Mark Halpern saying, take a breath and then take four more breaths and let's take a beat on this.

[Mark Halperin]

Probably stole that from me.

[Kevin]

Yeah. Again, I think this is part of. I think this is part of Trump and. And Hogan knows this way better than I do. Trump has always had a fascination with the U.N. he tried to redo the building back in the 80s. I think this is a realization and a frustration with the Security Council. You've got China and Russia with vetoes on that and wanting some kind of international body to take action when it comes to peacemaking and this billion dollar entry to be a part of it. I think it is to some degree the B team. But you got the Saudis involved, you got Argentina, you got a bevy of countries that have said they'd be a part of it. Putin wants to be a part of it. If we unfreeze his assets. I don't think that's a great idea. And that's obviously why the UK and France have said no. But this is the fascination of Donald Trump. This is a legacy play in his second term, and he really is viewing his second term through the lens of this foreign policy focus where he's ending wars and he's building up people.

[Mark Halperin]

Hogan is the. If you were the communications director for the Board of Peace, are they doing a good job of explaining to the American people why there's a Board of Peace?

[Hogan Gidley]

Well, so far it's pretty new, and I'm glad that they're having the conversation with the international community. They need to sell it here at home as well. That's always part of this deal. It strikes me though, oftentimes in Washington, D.C. and international bodies, you'll appreciate, I believe it was the monorail episode of the Simpsons where they were going to do a blue ribbon commission to study it. And like, it kind of pans to the crowd and was like, oh, blue ribbon. That's the best guy. He's like, oh, aren't I appeased? Like, it cut from character to character. It's like, oh, there's. That's the best kind of committee.

[Kevin]

Yeah.

[Hogan Gidley]

This is much different because Donald Trump does, like results. And while there are often committees stood up just to figure out next steps and do studies and all this kind of crud, they put this group together and said, we're going to try and bring peace into so many different places. You know, you're going to see some of the outcomes of this. I think it was a good move by Jared. And one. And the president. And one last thing, little known fact, I did Jared's makeup for his Time magazine cover.

[Mark Halperin]

That is a little known fact and a significant one in American history. When did Jared have a cover?

[Hogan Gidley]

It was during the first admin.

[Mark Halperin]

Abraham Accords.

[Hogan Gidley]

I was working with him quite a.

[Mark Halperin]

Bit on some Abraham Accords.

[Hogan Gidley]

I think it was leading up to that. I don't think it was actually.

[Mark Halperin]

I don't think it happened. I don't remember that.

[Kevin]

Was Ivanka on the COVID too, or was it just Jared?

[Hogan Gidley]

Just Jared.

[Mark Halperin]

Just Jared.

[Kevin]

Wow. Just Jared.

[Mark Halperin]

All right. Jack Smith is testifying on the Hill this morning. And Politico again built it up like it was just like going to be this huge thing. First of all, mandatory prediction. Will this hearing get more than five minutes of live coverage on any cable news network today?

[Kevin]

Yes or no?

[Mark Halperin]

Yes. Which?

[Kevin]

100%. Yes.

[Mark Halperin]

Which one?

[Hogan Gidley]

All of them.

[Kevin]

Again, this guy. This guy's been a mysterious kind of shadowy figure right in the background. And the fact that he's testifying before Congress. Absolutely.

[Mark Halperin]

Hogan, do you agree it'll run?

[Hogan Gidley]

I think so, but obviously for different reasons. Whereas some networks will say this guy's the villain.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah.

[Hogan Gidley]

They will say this guy's the hero.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah. Okay. I will say, of course. Ready to be wrong. I just, I just think it may.

[Hogan Gidley]

Be a few seconds over five. But it's going to be over five.

[Mark Halperin]

Okay, here's my question again. Play acting time. You're this. You're the comms staff director for your side in this hearing. Okay, well, then you can go second. Kevin. What if the Democratic members of the committee said, is it what Is it the House Judiciary Committee? Is that, yeah, Judiciary. If you were the minority staff director with a comms of specialty, what's the goal? What's what, what do you want the headline to be out of this hearing? Because, because the notion that Jack Smith said I had the goods on Donald Trump and, and I, and I, and I, that's why I indicted him. Is that really, is that, is that an achievement if, if that's the headline?

[Kevin]

I mean, I think the American people have generally moved on. Obviously they gave them a second term. Yeah, it was interesting.

[Mark Halperin]

What headline would you be going for if you were the Democratic staff director?

[Kevin]

That, that Jack Smith doubles down and says, you know, all these, all these indictments were, you know, he would do it again if given the opportunity. Which is, he's already telegraphed in his deposition, which is now public.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah, that's what I think. Hogan, what do Republicans want the headline to be? Jack Smith a crazy wild eyed zealot doing the bidding of Nancy Pelosi.

[Hogan Gidley]

No, I think it's a further extension of. It'd be more corruption exposed by the Biden administration going after targeting political opponents. That's what, that's what I go for.

[Mark Halperin]

Okay. The Clinton thing is, I mean, interesting.

[Kevin]

That this is like, but this is, you know, this is the Republicans calling him up too. It's interesting to me that they want to go down this Jack Smith path again.

[Mark Halperin]

I agree. It's not.

[Hogan Gidley]

If they don't. The right flank is like, what are you guys doing? We put you in power to bring these people forward, hold them accountable.

[Kevin]

I guess. Yeah. From accountability.

[Mark Halperin]

I don't have, I don't have polling on this, but my spidey sense is that the, the right hates Jack Smith more than the left loves him because the left is disappointed that he didn't, he didn't send Trump to prison and the righteous hates him. So in that sense I can understand why they might want Jack Smith back in the news. Jacks up the base. As Hogan suggested. The Clinton thing's going to play out. I think the Clinton's lawyers are going to continue to go back to comer and try to negotiate before they get indicted or go to the pokie. Here's my question. You had a number of Democrats on the committee vote for the contempt citation, eight I believe, for Bill Clinton, three for Hillary Clinton, even though the leadership, including Hakeem Jeffries, came out against it and told them not to. Now the question is on the floor, how many Democrats will vote for it? So two part question. I'll Break it up in separate parts. How many Democrat House Democrats will vote for the consent citation on the floor? Just give me a number, Hogan.

[Kevin]

Oh, gosh.

[Hogan Gidley]

How many voted for me? How many voted for this in committee?

[Mark Halperin]

Eight for Bill Clinton, three for Hillary.

[Hogan Gidley]

Democrats, right?

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah. All the Republicans voted for.

[Hogan Gidley]

Yeah, there could be.

[Mark Halperin]

How many on the floor, Hogan? Give me a number.

[Hogan Gidley]

18.

[Mark Halperin]

18, Kevin.

[Kevin]

I think. I think more than that, I'm bullish. Like, you know, I. I'd say upwards of 50. Again, it's, you know, they've got to play their politics while they're different.

[Mark Halperin]

But that's my question for you, Kevin. What is the politics? What's in it for them? Because. Because, you know, they're voting with Republicans. Like, is it. Is it. Is it about an Epstein thing? Is it about a general accountability thing? Is it hostility to the Clintons? Why? Why? What's the politics that makes them. Because I'm not so cynical. Maybe they're voting yes, because they believe in transparency and accountability and fairness. But if it's political, what is it?

[Kevin]

I think it's that. I think it gives Democrats cover to say if there's prominent Democrats on that list, go after them. If there's prominent Republicans, go after them. And it gives good cover for them to say, we're not holding back anyone, including former presidents and former secretaries of state. Right. Former standard bearers of our party.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah. It'll be interesting to see if the leadership really does whip it and gets to 50. That'll be quite something. They're so like it.

[Hogan Gidley]

They're so pregnant on the, you know, no one's above the law thing. They're going to have to try and let some of their members, you know, put that stake in the ground. I would. I would say, though, this is where I was just thinking, because of the committee, a lot of times they'll say we'll vote it out of committee, but on the floor, you know, we won't vote for it. Right?

[Mark Halperin]

Yes.

[Hogan Gidley]

And say we did this, you voted for before you vote against it. So that's why I'm saying if eight voted for it in eight Democrats voted for it in committee, I'm going to go half that on the floor is four. And I just added that into a few of the caucuses.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah, that's what we call. That's why I think we call South Carolina math. I will say that. Not the eight. They're not like in battleground districts. Like, they're in safe districts. I don't know if all eight are, but at least some of them are.

[Kevin]

I think one of them was Ted Lieu. Somebody can fact check me in the chat. And he's part of House leadership on.

[Mark Halperin]

My side defied Hakeem Jefferson. Vice presidents in Minnesota today. As I said earlier in the daybook, he's, he comes amidst.

[Hogan Gidley]

It does point to this, too. I think the relevance of the Clintons is so diminished, quite frankly, on the left that they're okay taking shots.

[Mark Halperin]

No.

[Hogan Gidley]

10 years ago.

[Mark Halperin]

Not just, not just, not just on the left, but in the party in general.

[Hogan Gidley]

Yeah, that's what I mean.

[Mark Halperin]

No question. And let's be honest, there's some Democrats who think there's something there there with Bill Clinton and Epstein. I'm not saying there is. I'm just saying there's some Democrats on the Hill who think there is. Okay, a person in detention in ICE in Texas now his death has been ruled a murder rather than a suicide. That's getting attention, court rulings and discussions about ICE and whether they can go into homes without a warrant to arrest people. That's in the air. ICE going into Minnesota, Maine rather, and people in Maine gearing up to replicate what Democrats have done in Minnesota. And the vice president by all accounts is going in to praise ICE officers and not to back down at all. Kogan, what's the vice president's goal today? Is it, is it to rally ice? Is it to unify the country? What would you say his goal is today?

[Hogan Gidley]

Yes, is the answer, I think is incumbent upon this administration to really drill down and push back on a lot of the narratives that they're just rounding up American citizens willy nilly, but point to who they are picking up. I've heard so many Democrats say they're not even picking up people that are bad, they're just picking up. He needs to systematically outline here's who we are picking up and my argument several shows ago, which I stand by now, they need to bring these people to the public square and say this is a child rapist. So we could either deport them or we're going to send them to your house or your community, whatever you'd like for us to do and make them make that decision. Because right now these, the administration, I think, has an opportunity here to expose exactly who they were getting out of the country and also bring forward more information about the victims of these crimes as well, even though you don't want to hurt their privacy. All that. I get all that, but I'm saying it needs to be about The American victims versus the illegal alien criminals. 70% of whom have been convicted of crimes already and they're the ones that are getting, they need to do a better job of making sure the American people understand exactly what's at stake and who they are picking up.

[Kevin]

Kevin, I mean, I agree with Hogan in terms of the nature of what the administration has to do. Obviously polling has shifted a bit in terms of people's views on ICE and immigration writ large and the president's standing on that. My question is there's upwards of 11 million undocumented folks in this country. I think a lot of people are scratching, a lot of Americans are scratching their heads and saying, why are you going to Maine? Why aren't you focusing on Texas, Florida, California, where you know that there's larger hotbeds of these folks? Because again, every day that there's a story of a five year old preschooler getting picked up on his way back from school, that guy being dragged out in his underwear from his home, that does real damage to the perceptions of ice. And I think the administration has to do a better job, to Hogan's point, of putting a spotlight on some of these folks that they're rounding up. The President tried to do that in the Brady briefing room the other day with the signs that he held up and the mug shots of these individuals. But again, I think the vice President has a real duty today to figure that out on behalf of the administration. We'll see if he's up for the task or if he just doubles down on the rhetoric.

[Mark Halperin]

Well said, well said by both of you. All right, just say quick, a new New York Times poll out today, interesting release date. The President's one year anniversary in office was two days ago. For some reason, the Times held their one year poll till two days later. Here's the top round result which will not be welcome in the White House. Go ahead and put that up. Do you think the country is generally better off than it was a year ago? About the same or worse off. And you see Republicans, 73% better off, 3% Democrats say better off. But obviously the independents are heavily with the Democrats because only 32% of respondents in this poll said that they're better off and almost 50% say they're worse off than they were a year ago. Interesting. All right, we'll look at more at that poll either later in this program or tonight on two ways.

[Kevin]

Those are, those are some Biden numbers, Hogan. I don't know. I'd be a little worried.

[Hogan Gidley]

Yeah, well, it's, it's, the numbers are less concerning to me as to the motive or the why. Why do they think? And if you can figure that out via polling, then you can begin to.

[Mark Halperin]

Drill down Kamala Harris. Just kidding, Hogan. They think, they think that because, because they're, they're worried about AI and their incomes and lingering inflation. I don't think it's any mystery. ICE extremists.

[Hogan Gidley]

Inflation's way down.

[Mark Halperin]

It's down, but it's not disappeared. All right, I could show you 100 clips of Gavin Newsom from Davos last night. His event was canceled by the White House because they didn't want him to use the platform that administration officials have been using. And of course, Newsom made hay out of that. This morning in his final Davos event, he spoke to Ben Smith of Semaphore about a bunch of things. And this one's interesting again, I could show you five sound bites for me, just go show you one. He basically, you know, been asked, you know, why this is not a new topic, like why do you use social media in a Trumpian way? Aren't you, you know, wrestling with a pig? Here's what Gavin Newsom said. This is pretty compelling to me in terms of the substance, but I want you guys also to look at the style here. I continue to believe that he's not, he's not coming across as unshifty. How about that is 109, please? I suppose. Do you think post Trump there's a path back? You see this everywhere to kind of insult politics that you're doing here, which you, you said you don't really enjoy it. You kind of seem to.

[Kevin Walling]

I just putting a mirror up. No, just. You got it. I was doing my 10 point plans before and I don't think any of you would have been here this morning had I done that.

[Mark Halperin]

They would have been here.

[Kevin Walling]

No, because it just wasn't working. Everyone's trying to figure this guy Mark Carney crowd. Yeah. No, but it's. How do you, how do you, how do you communicate, how do you, you respond to this moment? And it's, for me, it's about iteration. It's an entrepreneurial spirit. It's a very California mindset. You got to keep increasing the number of tries. And I was trying everything. One working, one breaking through. Democratic Party writ large wasn't breaking through. And we decided the only way to address Trump is quite literally to fight fire with fire. I did an initiative, Prop 50 in California was to reflect the fact that Donald Trump called an American politician and said in the middle of the decade to the governor of state of Texas. I am entitled Greg Abbott, to five seats. And I need you to redraw district lines mid year redistricting to rig the 2026 election before one vote is cast. What the Trump administration expected we were going to do as good Democrats do. We might write an op ed and we may, you know, all go out and just say, this is just so wrong. And all of us would be applauding and say, yes, yes, you know, as he's consolidating power. Instead, we went out and we redraw our maps and we also drew a line in the sand. And I think that's what's required at this moment.

[Reporter]

And.

[Mark Halperin]

So people can have different views about this attitude, this strategy, this tone. As my grandfather used to say, some people even like chocolate ice cream. So this is subjective. I considered his tone for the whole week to not be effective. That's my ears and eyes. I thought being overseas and criticizing the Commander in Chief sounded a little whiny, a little off key, and I just didn't see this as great. I will say people I respect, I thought it was fantastic. And I will also say no other Democrat, not even Governor Shapiro, could have done what he did this week. So he's an aircraft carrier. Hogan, take your partisanship aside. Did Gavin Newsom have a good weekend? Davos, a bad week, or doesn't matter?

[Hogan Gidley]

Okay, I'm going to answer it this way. It doesn't matter. But it does matter to a subset of the Democrat Party, which is going to be picking their nominee in 2028 soon. I was having a conversation with my mother last night, and she was saying how horrible Gavin Newsom was. I'm like, I agree. He's the best liar I've seen since Bill Clinton. He's one of the biggest buffoons I've seen. He and Tim waltz together. It's just, it's shocking to me to watch him try and meander his way through these things. However, a large portion of California loves what he's done there. They, they're fine with the high taxes, they're fine with people leaving. They're fine with open air drug. They don't care. So what I'm saying is going to a foreign country and you hit on it. He didn't just criticize. He said, European nations, stand up to America. What are you doing? Stand up to America. It was so weird. But I think it matters to some Democrats because they want to see some fight that Donald Trump had on the right. They need somebody in a parallel position. And Gavin Newsom offers that to them.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah, Kevin, that was very nuanced. What Hogan just did top that.

[Kevin]

This is why, this is why the governor is number one on your list. Right, mark for 20, 28, for this is what, for being the nominee. This is to Hogan's point, what Democrats want to see. It also to some degree gets under the President's skin.

[I]

Right.

[Kevin]

Who was the only Democrat that he really name checked from the podium was Gavin Newsom in that audience. So it's good politics for the governor, it's good politics for the president. Cuz it riles up both sides of the base. You know, Gavin is a great enemy for the right and for maga and the same is true on the left with the President and trying to get it under his skin. And you know, the photo that, you know, went around that the Governor's team tweeted out was him kind of standing in the shadows with the light on him behind Susie Wiles and the rest of the cabinet as kind of a, I'm here, I'm putting a stake in the ground. And that's what Democrats want to see. At least, you know, in terms of the agitated parts of my base.

[Mark Halperin]

All right, I'm revising my position. He had a good week and maybe the tactics and the strategy are okay. I just think no one else on.

[Kevin]

Your list, no one else on your list was there.

[Mark Halperin]

No one else was, you know, Bashir was there. But although he's on a list currently, I'll tell you, I'll tell you what, what the negative I see is he's not as quick on his feet as he thinks he is. And he had you saw in that clip. It's just he, he stutters and staggers and, and, and, and, and is, he's, he's like, he's like his, his rival Kamala Harris and Joe Biden. He doesn't want to make a mistake.

[Kevin]

He's not, he's very calculating, very calculating.

[Mark Halperin]

But he's, but he also knows, I mean, I'm going to talking about trans athletes or I'm talking about this criticism about that. I'm downplaying Trump's gutter level. He just, he picks his way through the answer in a very self conscious way and I think that's foreshadowing trouble as pressure comes on him.

[Hogan Gidley]

Hogan, all three of us know this individual I spoke to this morning and they made the point to me. They said now I've seen it and I can't unsee it. With Gavin Newsom, they said watch everybody. He's interviewed by, whether it be Ben Shapiro, Ben Smith, whatever, he always agrees with the premise of their question.

[Mark Halperin]

Correct.

[Mark Carney]

Like correct.

[Hogan Gidley]

Yeah, no, I hear you. I know where you're coming from. I get it. I get it.

[Mark Halperin]

Totally great point. And that's, that's, that, that's, that's adjacent to what I'm talking about. He's just, this is not organic. It's too calculating and people can see it. All right, two quick topics into your questions. Rahm Emanuel says headline for this is 116. I think Rahm Emanuel proposed yesterday that you can't be in a government, federal government job after your 75th birthday. I think that's what he said. Right. 75. If Rahm runs for president, that would preclude him serving a second term. So he's now term limited himself, which seems like a bad idea. Voters don't like that in my, in my experience. Hogan, is this, is this a good if he wants to be the Democratic nominee, leave aside the substance of it, leave aside the general election. Here's the New York Times headline, rahm Emanuel calls for age limits of 75 for president, Congress and judges. Is this a good gambit to become the Democratic nominee?

[Hogan Gidley]

No. No.

[Mark Halperin]

I mean, voters don't care.

[Hogan Gidley]

No, I don't think so. Because all 75 year olds aren't created equal. And I'll just. Quick anecdote. I remember being in the White House for the four years I was there and I was thinking to myself, I'm 20 years older basically, than everybody that was working in my office, thinking to myself, this is a young person's game from a physical stamina standpoint. But you need the mental maturity of someone who's been around the block a few times. So it's a hard, you know, mix to make. And so when you have someone like Trump who's wide open all the time and has experiences that's good regardless of age. Someone like Joe Biden, his age showed so much that was difficult. If you're old enough, if you're older than 75 and you can do the job, fine. I don't care.

[Mark Halperin]

Kevin, if he takes us on the stump and goes to a town hall in Iowa, New Hampshire, our voters, this is going to be a crowd pleaser to a town hall, Democratic activists?

[Kevin]

I think so to some degree. But you know, Nikki Haley tried to float this during the last primary and it went nowhere.

[Hogan Gidley]

Right.

[Kevin]

She wanted cognitive tests and it's her retirement. He's channeling his inner Pope Paul vi, who put down the mandate that all Bishops should retire by 75, turn in their letters. We'll see if it goes anywhere. But I do think that Romney is putting in the work he was in. He's going to places, the second and third tier cities, especially for Democrats. He was in Mississippi, he was in Palm beach the other week. And he can be kind of the intellectual heft. He's a really smart guy when he talks about education policy. This is what obviously got a lot of attention, the term limits. But I've got some money on Rahm putting in the work and making the name for himself this early on and he's got nothing to lose.

[Mark Halperin]

I don't think this one's a winner. Just so you know. I mean, I don't think it's a.

[Kevin]

Name, the term, the term limits or.

[Mark Halperin]

The ending, but mandatory retirement, hard age limit because as Hogan said, They're 75 year olds who, who shouldn't be ruled out. Just too arbitrary. I think it's probably unconstitutional too. All right, I'm just going to tell you about an article. We're not going to talk about it because it take too long article in the Hill. We'll put up the headline and somebody will put the, the link in the chat. The small dollar donations to both parties have gone down since inflation took off in the Biden years and it's bounced back a little, but not fully. It's a huge development in politics at all levels, including the presidential because, because raising small dollar donations has revolutionized how fundraising works and the amount of money people can raise. So we'll maybe talk about it tonight, but go read the story. It's a very important story affecting what's going on. All right, here we go to your questions. As always, please unmute yourself as you come in. Croft, your first. Tell everybody where you are and what's on your mind. For Kevin and for Hogan and Croft, thanks for being part of Two way try again. You're muted and then muted. There you go.

[I]

Hi there. Thanks, guys.

[Mark Halperin]

Tell everybody where you are. If people don't know. Oh, thank you.

[I]

In Calgary, Alberta.

[Mark Halperin]

Yes, sir.

[I]

So what I'm curious about is Mark Carney's trying to differentiate Canada over to China. In the 1970s, Pierre Trudeau said famously, in Canada at least, the relationship with the United States is like being in a mouse being in bed with an elephant. The mouse is very aware of the elephant and the elephant really doesn't care much about the mouse. So is the, with what Carney's trying to do, stand up and be very diplomatic and all that does Trump care. Is there some way, because it has such a big economic impact, the relationship deteriorating? What's the right way for Carney to be handling it? Because to me, he seems to be pulling us away and becoming friends with the Chinese, who really aren't very likely to be good friends. And we do 70% of our business with the Americans. So how should Carney and Canada be dealing with this?

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah, Croft, it's a great question, and I know from my time in Canada, there's just an asymmetry. The people of Canada know way more about the United States than the people in the United States think about Canada. And I find informed Canadians know more about American politics than most Americans. So there is a say, There is a safe symmetry. Carney came to the Oval Office not that long ago and was given rave reviews for his standing up for Canada, but also managing the President's concerns and ego in a pretty brilliant way. He's a very smart guy, Mark Carney, but it's a tough position for him. And being the toast of Davos, he got name checked in a negative way by the President yesterday. And at the same time, the President doesn't hold grudges. Most in most cases, not in all. But if it's in the interest of the United States to deal with Mark Carney in Canada, he will. Hogan, how should Mark Carney handle the President going forward after. After what is clearly some. Some touching this between them after this week?

[Hogan Gidley]

As I have long said, the one thing Donald Trump loves more than a day one immovable supporter is a convert. If he can get them to convert to his way of thinking in some form or fashion, it's because he did it. Okay? It would behoove these leaders to stop the reflexive action of. Like when you're in the doctor's office and they hit your knee with the little hammer and your knee just goes up involuntarily. It's like Trump says it against it. Trump says it. It's like the hammer is against it. They need to decide to come to the table on a lot of these things. And what you've noticed in Davos, I think, is the President kind of pointing out to the world the, the, the sheer volume of money that we shell out that other countries don't. And when he name checked Mark in a bad way and it said, listen, just remember, you're kind of nothing without us. That's not necessarily untrue from a global economic standpoint. And, and I reminded the world, here's what we've got here. Are our abilities to help you out, not just, you know, in your own countries, but globally, too. Let's figure something out. It would behoove these leaders to come to the table and say, all right, what you got? Let's figure out how we can work together as opposed to reflexively doing the knee thing, as I said, and just saying no, because it's Trump.

[Mark Halperin]

Kevin, we give you one of those Burisma retainers. The Canadian government hires you 50 grand a month.

[I]

Retainers are 80,000, not 50.

[Kevin]

Hey, I'm done talking about Hunter Biden, hopefully for the rest of my life. But Croft, it's an excellent question that you posit in terms of what Mark Carney can do. I think one of the things that's happening that's under the radar, I don't know if it's public yet, but you all are getting a new ambassador to the United States. I don't know if he's been named yet, but he's a business guy from New York. He's obviously Canadian, but has spent a lot of time on Wall street working in B.C. and can talk Trump's language. And I think having a new emissary after replacing your ambassador, who's been here for a long time, who's a career diplomat, I think is one of the key things that Mark Carney is doing where he's putting a business guy to interact with the business administration and level.

[Mark Halperin]

On the economic front. Are you breaking that as news or that's known?

[Kevin]

I'm pretty sure it's known. But obviously the current ambassador has announced she's stepping back. And I do think it's widely known that who's going to replace her is a business guy who spent a lot of time in New York.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah. Yeah. All right, Croft, great question. Thanks for being part of two way. Quick word from a sponsor, then back to you folks for questions. Other sponsor today, CB Distillery, promo code 2 WMM, 25% off all their products. If you want to sleep better, deal with discomfort, pain, feel better in your own skin, go to cvdistillery.com promo code 2 WMM. A lot of options there for stress relief, for pain relief, and for some, for mood. Over 2 million customers have used the products of CB Distillery and it comes with 100% money back guarantee. So give it a try if you're ready. For better sleep, less stress and feeling good, go to cbdistillery.com use the promo code 2WMM 25% off everything on the website cbdistillery.com right now, part of your New year resolution is to get more and better sleep. Try this. It's worked for many again. Over 2 million customers have used the products of CB Distillery. Again CBDistillery.com promo code 2 WMM. Thank you for your attention to that matter, Luke. Welcome in. Tell folks who don't know where you are what's on your mind for Kevin and for Hogan.

[Mark Carney]

There we go. There we go. They forgot to unmute me. It's nice to talk to you again, Mark. It's also nice to talk to Frankson. I mean Hogan. I'm sorry. You look like Frank Sinatra for some reason.

[Mark Halperin]

He gets it all the time.

[Hogan Gidley]

Take it.

[Mark Halperin]

Brad Packy.

[Mark Carney]

No, I just wanted to talk about what was going on with China and Canada because, you know, I was watching it a couple weeks ago. The problem is I think Canada was hoping for a lot better reception from what they were getting and they really didn't. President Xi didn't come to the airport to pick him up. They talked for a while. I mean, the only big things that like Canada came in with like a bunch of things to talk about and none of them really got taken care of. And the EV thing is very big. But the problem is the only EV company I think that has opportunities and things going on now is Tesla. So Tesla is probably going to be the biggest winner out of all this by shipping their cars from China. And we already talked to the mayor of Ottawa. He's already angry because that's just killing their auto, auto machine factories right now, which are really having huge problems in Canada. I mean, Canada is having a lot of job, job problems right now. And I think the only thing that Canada really got out of this, which I think a lot of people are happy about, is that they got 60 day and 90 day visas for free, so they can go to China anytime they want, which I think a lot of B.C. chinese people will be happy about. But it's really, I don't know, people are realizing, it's just that China is a fine partner, but I wouldn't put all of my, my weight into China. China's a lot of people. One of the things they talk about Americans is that they love that when they talk to Americans, when they make a deal, it's a deal. Everything's flat out told, everything's fine. Things like here in China, they'll say, oh, we'll take care of that, but not now. And then they'll never really give you. They'll kind of black box everything that they do. And that could be a problem especially for Companies who have quality control questions and issues. So I don't know what Canada, what Canada is going to get, and I don't know what the EU wants to get from them, so.

[Mark Halperin]

All right, more good framing of the situation. Kevin thoughts or questions for Luke Yeah.

[Kevin]

Luke, I think you frame it perfectly. And I think, you know, there was all this hope of these kind of middle countries and developing countries in the Belt and Road initiative and the curtains up on that in terms of what China extracts from these, these countries. There's no longer this real interest for these countries to have that kind of level of investment in infrastructure, in transportation, in mining rights and things like that, based on what they've seen out of Beijing and the fact that they're raping and pillaging these countries that agree to these deals so that economic interest is no longer there. To your point? Luke?

[Mark Carney]

Well, I mean, the Belt and Road has been kind of good for some. For some countries it's actually been very, very good. But for others it's just been, yeah, it's just been pillage and take. I mean, there's a couple of places that have like airports that have been taken back by the Chinese that are now in Chinese control. And you know, there's, but there's some other great things that are going on, like in Africa, it's been amazing. They've been opening up tons of different railways and highways in many of the countries which are helping in the industrializing some of the other areas of southern Africa.

[Mark Halperin]

So.

[Kevin]

HOGAN but at what cost, though? That's, that's the question. Like, you know.

[Mark Carney]

Yeah.

[Hogan Gidley]

Hogan yeah, I think China's in a lot of trouble economically, as is Russia. They're viewed as some international superpowers, which they are, but a lot of it is kind of a ruse. I think their one child policy has them behind the eight ball on population. Russia has an older population as well. They've got a lot of issues there economically that on paper you think, oh, this is great. When you start to dig below the surface, you realize a lot of it's built on sand. So I think partnering with them is, in the short term may show a little moxie of some kind, but I think in the long term would be problematic for a whole host of reasons. Yeah.

[Mark Halperin]

Luke, thank you. Mallory, welcome in. Tell folks who don't know where you are what's on your mind for Kevin and for Hogan.

[J]

Hey, I'm calling in from South Carolina today and some of the things I wanted to touch on, the things that.

[Kevin]

I feel like you're greenville Aren't you. Aren't you from Greenville?

[J]

Yeah.

[Kevin]

All right. We love that.

[J]

Oh, yeah. We're getting ready to have a really fun ice storm this weekend.

[Hogan Gidley]

Yeah.

[J]

You are going to shut it down for like a week probably. So one of the things. And this could just be my algorithm, it could be. I just noticing these things more and more, but I feel like I'm seeing just an increasing. I'm a big public land proponent. Like, I love our park systems. I love the, the way that we've maintained the integrity of a lot of our lands out west. And I just saw yesterday the House passed a bill, it's going to go to the Senate now to allow, I believe it's a Chilean company, to mine in the border waters, which are one of the last protected waters. I think they're on the northern part of Minnesota between Canada and the United States to get copper. So they're basically going to pollute the waters and then take the copper and take it, I think, ultimately to China. I don't really understand why that's been passed, but it's really starting to bother me because I'm seeing these, like, EPA regulations are being rolled back and I feel like all of it is being done in the name of profit margins and big business. And when you have 44 billionaires who have been appointed into these federal appointee spots, you've got all these tech bros that are in the pay for play politics. I'm feeling like I'm seeing less and less care for the American people. Like my health insurance and I don't get subsidies at all. But like my health insurance for my private health insurance is $2,200 a month for a catastrophic plan. My deductible is $8,000 for one person and we can afford it. And it's. But it's awful for us. And I think there's got to be people who will just choose not to have insurance. And I think that's terrifying. And then I look at the grocery prices, like drug prices went up again in January. I think there was something like 350 medicines that increased in January. And I just feel like we're focusing super so much on what's happening everywhere else. And I don't feel like any. I feel like the billionaires, I think it was the top 10 billionaires made $360 billion in 2025. And people here in the United States can't afford health insurance. Our EPA regulations are being rolled back. We're going after our pristine lands, our public parks. Water is being polluted they want to put frack, they want to use fracking water in Texas to water our crops. I just sort of am I overwhelmed? But I feel like those things aren't getting enough traction in the media because there's so much happening.

[Mark Halperin]

Well said. Hogan.

[Hogan Gidley]

Thoughts briefly, the fight for this next election, both midterms and 2028, will be over domestic policy. Foreign policy rarely shapes national elections unless it's something that's ongoing and that we have people in theater at the time. Your concerns about drug prices, you're concerned about health care. So are a lot of Americans. And that's something I think that this Republican Congress addressed. Donald Trump worked out deals with no favored nations, favored nation statuses as well to bring prices down. This will be an issue that will be litigated many times over between now and the midterm. So a lot of people are where you are. I expect people to address it. Moving to the next elections.

[Mark Halperin]

Tens of tens of millions. You speak for Mallory.

[Kevin]

Kevin Amen. Mallory, you know, we talked briefly about that time. Sienna poll. Only 34% of Americans think the president is doing enough on tackling cost of living. To your point, everything's going up more expensively. And the fact that, you know, there's an optics issue and a feeling. There's a feeling issue. Right. Many, many things. And perception is everything. Right. And gas prices are at a great cost right now. Right. In terms of the price. But if folks aren't feeling it, you know, there's going to be a reckoning I think, with Republicans in Congress come the midterms, to your point, because the frustrations are real. And to Mark's point, you speak for millions of Americans.

[Mark Halperin]

Yeah, Mallory, go ahead.

[J]

Oh, sorry. No, and I just want to also say my, my private health insurance plan, if I look it up on the South Carolina, like exchange, it's about 4 or $500 cheaper on the exchange than it is to have it privately. I mean, that's no subsidies or anything. So just I feel like we talk a lot about that, but, like it's actually cheaper for me.

[Mark Halperin]

Yep. Every state's different. Mallory, thank you. All right, real quick, folks, I need to tell you about a bunch of stuff, including a special announcement. The group chat live today. Emma, Joe, Nina and Robbie joined by Chris Hahn of the Aggressive Progressive Podcast. You guys big listeners of the Aggressive Progressive Podcast. Anyway, Chris Hahn joining the group chat, 4pm Eastern time for a conversation like no other. Two great guests on two way tonight with me at 6pm Eastern time, two former members of Congress, former Democratic Congressman Joe Cunningham, former Republican Congressman Garrett Graves joined me at 6:00am tonight. Moynihan report at 7. This program's on tomorrow, 9:00am Eastern Time. And our guest hosts tomorrow, Jamie Harrison and Matt Gorman. That'll be a blockbuster episode. Not that today wasn't. And finally, big announcement here at Two Ways, our new CEO has started and the story of his announcement broken today in Deadline. Joe Ruffalo, our new colleague, our new leader, is now the CEO of Two Way and we couldn't be more excited to have him here.

[Kevin]

Go.

[Mark Halperin]

You can go read the story on Deadline by Ted Johnson about Joe's background, but he's got a long time experience in media.

[Kevin]

In the business side, Joe's the best in the business. Best in the business. This is a big deal for 2A.

[Mark Halperin]

Kevin has worked with them. He's worked at all sorts of all sorts of places at the Hill, at ABC News and many other places. And it just, it's going to take us to a new level. And, and as I've told you for several weeks now, we have a bunch of announcements coming about this program about two Way tonight, but also about a lot of new programs with great partners across the country. And we're looking forward, under Joe's leadership to bringing them all to you and to having you all have expanded opportunities to enjoy two way conversations like no other in a variety of formats. Politics will always be part of what we do, but Joe has a great vision for expanding, as we have from the start, into lots of other conversations and categories, including the game show, which is my favorite two way program coming soon. So stand by for all of that. And again, congratulations to Joe and we're glad he's here. Thanks to Hogan, thanks to Kevin, thanks to all of you. I will see you at 6pM Tonight. And just a little spoiler, but not a full spoiler. I'm going to pull a Katie Couric over the next 24 hours. So please join in and see what I mean. Thank you, guys. Thanks, everybody. Thanks. Later.